Open Thread 1/30

- I honestly don’t know what’s stranger, that this was written at all, or that it was written in late January.

– I’m not sure I’m comfortable calling this the bill since it’s hopefully aimed at them and at anyone else who might pop up.

For people who think life is a gift from the heavens, though, they’re surprisingly cavalier with the lives of people providing reproductive health services

An Immorality Tale in Three Acts

OMG, Indiana.

OMG Jan Brewer

– Damn you Hollywood values.


  1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Nation Building Dep’t

    Afghans take domestic violence — for that matter, violence in general — to a whole new (lower) level.

    The latest outrage from Afghanistan concerns a man who killed his wife for delivering three daughters in a row. He wanted a son. Girls are useless for herding goats, and it costs you a big dowry to get rid of them.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: The Russians couldn’t turn Afghanistan into a modern nation, either.

  2. 2

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Government Isn’t The Problem Dep’t

    Just wait, some troll will blame this on “socialized medicine.” But it was a PRIVATE SECTOR dentist, not a government bureaucrat, who cut corners by putting paperclips instead of dental appliances in Medicaid patients’ mouths.

  3. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Trust me on this, wingnuts will blame private thievery on public workers, every time.

  4. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Here’s an interesting story about mortgage debt and foreclosure rates from MSNBC.

    Washington, it turns out, has the 5th highest mortgage indebtedness but a low foreclosure rate.

    •Mortgage debt per person: $225,581
    •Median household income: $55,681 (11th highest)
    •Credit card debt per person: $6,825 (17th highest)
    •Change in home value (2006 – 2010): +1.6 percent (32nd biggest gain)

    While Washington has the fifth-highest mortgage debt per person in the country, state residents tend to be more frugal in their other finances. Compared to other states, Washington has only the 17th highest credit card and auto debt per capita, and has the 13th-lowest student debt. Washington’s median home value in 2010 was the ninth-highest in the country. Home values actually increased 1.6 percent during the recession. As a result, foreclosures in the state are low, despite the fact that the state has the 16th highest unemployment rate in the country and a high poverty rate of 12.5 percent.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: To this I would add that Washington is one of only 4 states whose public pension systems are 100% funded. The explanation seems to be that Washingtonians are a frugal bunch (somebody’s been reading Roger Rabbit’s financial commentary on HA) but there’s no getting around the fact housing is expensive here.

  5. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The stock market continues to slide this morning. It appears we’re in a correction. I blame it on bad news about the domestic economy, bad news from Europe, bad news from China, and investor concerns that getting hit by an asteroid would be bad for investment returns.

  6. 6

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    U.S. Refinery Strike Imminent

    Better gas up your cars today, because the United Steelworkers’ contract negotiations with Shell and other big refiners are going nowhere, and union refinery workers are gonna walk out for the first time since 1980 at midnight on Wednesday.

  7. 7

    mookie blaylock spews:

    How about those ows’ers in oakland…fine group of peaceful progresives….loll

  8. 9

    ArtFart spews:

    @4 “To this I would add that Washington is one of only 4 states whose public pension systems are 100% funded.”

    SHHHHHHHH!!! Think of any of our resident trolls reading this and demanding that the Republicans in Olympia “do something about it”.

  9. 11

    rhp6033 spews:

    Gee, remember when the football coach insisted that you focus one game at a time, and not get distracted by other factors such as potential playoffs or record statistics for a season? Even if you didn’t play football, you’ve certainly heard it uttered in almost every college or NFL interview when a player or coach is quized about the future prospects of the team.

    Well, Newt apparantly never learned that lesson. Either that, or he’s so bedazzeled by the media attention he’s received after his showing in S. Carolina. He’s already making demands about who can be the moderator of any debates between himself and the President in October:

    “As your nominee, I will not accept debates in the fall in which the reporters are the moderators,” Gingrich said at a rally in Pensacola. “We don’t need to have a second Obama person at the debate….”

    Gingrich: I wouldn’t accept debate versus Obama moderated by reporters

    Presumably, a Fox News reporter would be okay?

    Of course, Newt only wants to have a debate when the audience is stacked with his supporters and moderated by one someone sufficiently pliable or an outright supporter so that Newt can control the agenda. At the end of last week he was complaining that in the last debate Romney’s supporters were too loud, and in previous debates he complained that the media was trying to quiet down his own supporters.

    But I suspect Gingrich’s own agenda is really to appeal to the Florida Tea Party voters who like to hear a candidate bash the media (presumably excepting Fox News), and to cower the mainstream media into handling Newt with kid gloves in future debates.

  10. 14

    ArtFart spews:

    @11 There may be some coherent political strategy there, but it’s becoming more and more apparent that Gingrich is the kind of guy who masturbates whenever he sees himself in a mirror.

  11. 15

    formerobamafan spews:

    Pretty funny watching Obama’s past words as a Senator about raising the Debt Ceiling, isn’t it?!!

    As President Obama prepares to raise the debt ceiling — after the Senate waived its opposition last week — $5 trillion hikes evidently are no longer “unpatriotic” as Obama said they were in 2008 while describing former President George W. Bush’s $4 trillion increase over eight years.
    The White House requested authority earlier this month to raise the debt ceiling to $16.4 trillion, up $1.2 trillion from last summer and more than $5 trillion from the statutory limit of $11.3 trillion set in October 2008 before Obama took office. The debt at the time Obama entered the White House was $10.6 trillion. The ceiling was raised to $12.1 trillion within a month of his inauguration.

    Such increases used to be anathema to Obama, who voted in March 2006 along with all his Senate Democratic colleagues against Bush’s hike of the debt ceiling to $8.9 trillion.
    At the time, Obama called raising the debt limit “a sign of leadership failure.” Out on the campaign trail in July 2008, he suggested the move was downright un-American.
    “The problem is that the way Bush has done it in the last eight years is to take out a credit card from the Bank of China in the name of our children, driving up our national debt from $5 trillion from the first 42 presidents. No. 43 added $4 trillion by his lonesome. So we now have over $9 trillion of debt that we are going to have to pay back. $30,000 for every man woman and child. That’s irresponsible, that’s unpatriotic,” he said.
    In April 2011, during the heat of the debt ceiling debate with Congress, Obama expressed regret for his 2006 stance, which he said was delivered from “the vantage point of a senator versus the vantage point of a president.”
    “When you’re a senator, traditionally what’s happened is, this is always a lousy vote. Nobody likes to be tagged as having increased the debt limit — for the United States by a trillion dollars. As president, you start realizing, you know what, we, we can’t play around with this stuff. This is the full faith and credit of the United States.”

    Obama bore witness against himself about the consequences of excessive debt. Bush was horrible. Obama is horrible on steroids.
    Appears to be hoping to get re-elected by throwing around more borrowed money. What a joker.

  12. 18

    ArtFart spews:

    @15 “Appears to be hoping to get re-elected by throwing around more borrowed money.”

    Whether that will work or not may well depend upon in whose direction he throws it.

  13. 19

    Richard Pope spews:

    Interesting ads I get on Horse’s Ass:

    Allen West at the top of the page! Allen West? Republican congressman from Florida?

    On the right side, I get Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich, Elizabeth Warren (okay, a Democrat finally!), and Epson printers.

    I guess a buck is a buck …

  14. 20

    rhp6033 spews:

    John Warton was indeed a Confederate cavalry general, having fought in Bragg’s Kentucky campaign, at Murfreesborough (Stone’s River), and at Chickamauga. Transferred to the Trans-Mississipi department, he fought with Richard Taylor during the Red River campaign in 1864 (where TWO Union armies were sent packing back to their bases).

    But in Houston, while assigned to “Prince John” Magruder’s headquarters, a simmering dispute between himself and John Wyatt Baylor came to a broil. According to Baylor, Wharton strode up to Baylor in the street, slapped him in the face, and called him a liar. Baylor was a Texas frontiersman from a rough-and-tumble family of Texas frontiersmen, and he didn’t take such abuse lightly – he promptly pulled his revolver and gunned Wharton down in the steet, even though Wharton was unarmed.

    This happened three days before Lee surrendered to Grant at Appomatox, so Magruder had more to worry about than arresting Baylor and convening a courts-martial, the matter was dropped. After the war Baylor made a reputation as an indian fighter with the Texas Rangers and is reputed to have fought the last battle in Texas with Apachie renegades in 1881, (if I have the date correct). Baylor later served in the Texas legislature and died in 1916.

  15. 21

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 15: It’s all about timing.

    If someone told you in 2003 that it was a great time to buy a house, would you say that he was wrong because of the housing collapse of 2007? If you got a reasonable mortgage in 2003, then there was nothing wrong with buying then – you even skipped the price run-up of 2005-2006 and the credit tightening which occured in late 2009 and continues today.

    Likewise, Sen. Obama was correct that during an otherwise prosperous economy you couldn’t continue to prosecute two wars off-budget, while at the same time give tax breaks (a lot to the wealthy, a token to the middle class). There’s no reason to be accumulating debt in such circumstances. It just makes things that much harder when you hit a bad economy later.

    Like in 2008-2009, when the entire economy threatened to enter another great depression. THAT’s the time to borrow money in order to “prime the pump”, keep credit lines flowing, prevent each layoff from becoming a wave which begats other business closing and layoffs, and to keep jobless numbers from turning into homelss numbers.

    Republicans like to spout quotes like this one out of context. Timing is everything.

  16. 22

    manoftruth spews:

    this is what rhp said in a previous topic

    Obviously, MOT hasn’t tried to vote as a black man in Florida. Depending upon the location within Florida, quite a number of obsticles thrown up in your path.

    really rhp? can you be specific as to how the color of someones skin prevents them from getting to a polling station?

  17. 23


    Lol….true that!

    Hold on a sec. Oakland has a “high percentage of african american population”.. Could the blockquoted statement above indicate racism?

    Heh.. According to some idiot pos nitwit “it sure sounds like it”.

  18. 24

    Michael spews:

    He’s agreeing with my statement that people are always tearing shit up in Oakland. A statement I made part in fun, part because of the high percentage of gutter punk types that live in Oakland (who are mostly white and like to tear shit up), and part because it seems like people are always tearing shit up in Oakland. Race wasn’t a factor.

  19. 25

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    Anybody heard anything from the Republican side of the fence regarding the March 3rd King County Republican Caucus?

    I hear there is a contested race for the GOP nomination.

  20. 29

    rhp6033 spews:

    Citibank is sending 1099 notices to customers who received frequent flyer miles as a reward for opening a checking account with them. They are treating it as “interest income”, rather than a “discount” or “rebate”, since the customer didn’t have to pay for it. My understanding is customers got the form regardless of whether or not they actually used the frequent flyer miles.

    Since the government also gets a copy of the 1099, this leaves the customer with the uncomfortable option of (a) reporting the frequent flyer miles and paying taxes upon them, whether they were used or not; (b) attaching a statement to their return which reports the income but does not include it in taxes owed, which prevents e-filing and increases the chance of an audit by several times; or (c) paying the tax, then petitioning for a refund.

    This is really stupid. Frequent Flyer miles expire if not used, and have severe restrictions on when and how they can be used. They aren’t worth anywhere near the “face value” which is advertised. Most recipients of frequent flyer miles don’t get to use them at all before they expire. This makes them the equivilent of the mug or toaster banks used to give out – de minimus value.

    Secondly, the frequent flyer miles aren’t “free”. The customer paid for them when they opened the account. They expended their time and energy in going to a CitiBank, waiting to get assistance, filling out the forms, and arranging for the transfer of any funds from their old bank. On a monetary cost basis, they probably had to make a minimum deposit, which translates into fund unavailability to the customer (but availability to the bank). In short, the customer is making a loan to the bank, with restrictions on the ability of the customer to demand payment of the entire amount. Then, of course, there is the expected hope of future (chargeable) business on the part of the bank over the next few years – C.D.s, morgtages, car loans, etc.

    Every week or so we get an offer from banks to switch to them, usually offering anywhere from %50.00 to a couple hundred dollars for doing so. I tell my wife – NO WAY. They wouldn’t be offering that money if they hadn’t already thought of a way to get it out of us within the next six months. Just because we don’t see it yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

  21. 30

    rhp6033 spews:

    One Way to Ruin a Super Bowl Party.

    Okay, some of the guys at my church decided they want to get together to watch the Super Bowl. Only one guy has a house with a room big enough to accomodate a dozen viewers, and a big-screen TV.

    His wife says sure, as long as the wives can get together in the other room and play card games or something. Then the wives get together to decide on the “menu” for the day.

    Here’s where trouble begins. One of the wives insists that her husband’s cholesteral level is way to high, and she doesn’t want him pigging out on pizza, buffalo wings, chips & dip, etc. “Of course”, the other wives assure her, “and to support him in this effort, we will make sure there’s no temptation available. Besides, our own husbands can stand to lose a few pounds. We will make this a low-calories, low-fat Super Bowl!.

    Then we have some specific allergies which have to be taken into account – not so much for the guys, but for the wives. And some of them are on their own diets, which vary remarkably from one to another. When one announced she could only eat gluten-free food, and another announced she was unable to eat anything containing dairy products, you know you are in trouble.

    Of course, the way the guys handle this sort of conflict is simple. The host springs for the pizza and drinks, everyone else brings what they want, enough for everyone to share some. If you can’t eat it, then don’t. Or go ahead and eat it, and pay for it afterwards – Super Bowl only comes once a year, anyway.

    It doesn’t seem to work that way for the wives.

    The last I heard, they were talking about a cucumber, grape tomato and vinager salad. Someone was trying to find out if tofu had dairy or gluten in it. Instead of chips, we could eat baby carrots – but no dip. No beer (this was a church group, remember), but no pop either. They are still discussing what kind of tea is allowed, and it appears to be heading in the direction of green tea, and water. To handle the really hungry guys, they are talking about making a big pot of cabbage and vegitable soup – with no salt.

    I don’t see this working out very well. As for me, I’ll eat before I go, and carry a big jug of southern ice tea with me. But I’m guessing most of the other guys have already begun making other plans. To which their wives will say: “But honey, we HAVE to go! Look at all the trouble we went through to make the food for all of you!”

  22. 31

    rhp6033 spews:

    Where are our trolls? You would think we could get better trolls than this – guys who simply cut and paste from Fox News propoganda pieces. We’d love to have a reasonable, rational discussion with someone in the tradition of Barry Goldwater or William F. Buckley, but we haven’t seen them in quite a long time.

    Do any of the trolls really want to take on a discussion of Kensyan vs. Friedman economics, and how it applies to today’s economic situation?

  23. 32

    proud leftist spews:

    rhp @ 29
    That’s funny. I have to say, though, that inviting wives to a Super Bowl party constitutes a violation of a fundamental Man Rule.

  24. 33

    Michael spews:

    That’s just stupid. It’s not interest income. I wouldn’t count it on my taxes.

    Just when you thought corporate America couldn’t get any stupider…

  25. 34

    Isambard Kingdom Brunel spews:


    so you are saying Michael is a racist?

    swing and a miss by the lazy castillian…

    hey, when was the last time the good people of Gig Harbor burned and looted their town?

  26. 35

    Isambard Kingdom Brunel spews:

    28. The Golden Gate Quartet spews:
    re 7: You better stay away from them or they’ll kick your ass.

    01/30/2012 AT 3:42 PM

    1. I wouldnt be caught visiting that shithole of a town in the first place.

    2. They better be fucking armed to the teeth and outnumber me 10 to 1

    3. You want to take a shot at the title? step up or shut the fuck up.

  27. 36

    Isambard Kingdom Brunel spews:


    the only three people who here who cut and paste are you, the rabbit, and rujaxoff…

  28. 37

    proud leftist spews:

    Well, what have we here? I believe the species is known as Homo Sapiens Smallus Dickus.

  29. 38

    Isambard Kingdom Brunel spews:


    you would know all about small dicks, wouldnt you…

    or should I say, your wife knows all about them…

  30. 39

    Michael spews:

    1. I wouldnt be caught visiting that shithole of a town in the first place.

    I know people that fucking love Oakland. I don’t get it. I guess I’m not punk rock enough for Oakland.

    2. They better be fucking armed to the teeth and outnumber me 10 to 1

    It’s Oakland. They’re armed to the teeth and go to the dojo 3 times a week. I wouldn’t mess with them. A buddy of mine in Oakland keeps 3 loaded shotguns in his house and walks around with a CZ 75 in a shoulder holster. He digs it. I don’t get it. I see him when he comes up here to visit family. The way look at it, if you need to keep loaded guns around it’s time to move.

  31. 40

    Michael spews:

    In a move that surprises no one The Sierra Club endorses Jay Inslee for governor.

    January 30, 2012 — The Washington State Chapter of the Sierra Club enthusiastically announces its endorsement of Jay Inslee to be Washington State’s 23rd governor. “Jay Inslee brings both a vision and expertise for making Washington a leader on clean energy and forging the good jobs and economic future for the 21st century,” said Andrew Lewis, Chair of the Sierra Club’s Washington State Chapter. “We need the leadership that he brings to address the most pressing issues of our time – creating real jobs here in our state and addressing global climate change.”

    Hopefully this means Inslee will get a bunch of help knocking on doors this summer and fall.

  32. 41

    Isambard Kingdom Brunel spews:


    I dont think its gonna help Inslee.

    which is exactly why you wouldnt catch me in that shithole of a town…

  33. 42

    Rujax! spews:

    15. formerobamafan spews:

    Pretty funny watching Obama’s past words as a Senator about raising the Debt Ceiling, isn’t it?!!

    Obama bore witness against himself about the consequences of excessive debt. Bush was horrible. Obama is horrible on steroids.
    Appears to be hoping to get re-elected by throwing around more borrowed money. What a joker.
    01/30/2012 at 11:29 am

    This new paid troll is a real dipshit, not to mention daed mother fucking wrong.

    Hey…HANDLERS! Can we get a new troll?

    This one sux.

  34. 43

    Rujax! spews:

    15. formerobamafan spews:

    Pretty funny watching Obama’s past words as a Senator about raising the Debt Ceiling, isn’t it?!!

    Obama bore witness against himself about the consequences of excessive debt. Bush was horrible. Obama is horrible on steroids.
    Appears to be hoping to get re-elected by throwing around more borrowed money. What a joker.
    01/30/2012 at 11:29 am

    This joker and his other bed-wetting thumb-suckers think they’re going to impeach the President over the debt ceiling.

    Grover Norquist’s army. ROTFLMAO.

  35. 44

    Steve spews:

    When I lived in Palo Alto I spent some time in Oakland. The bad neighborhoods were bad, the good ones were good. In that way, it was really no different than any other major American city I’ve been in. Downtown sucked, but only because it was dead. I walked a lot of the worst parts of town so I could get a feel for the place. It was no worse than walking around Rainier Valley where I grew up. I even considered moving myself and the office to Oakland from Palo Alto. That was twenty years ago or so, but I doubt that it’s gotten much worse relative to any other city. I did prefer the women and restaurants of San Francisco over Oakland. East Palo Alto was far worse than Oakland, say, if you’re a white guy walking around like you have a stick up your ass.

    @42 No matter how hard he tries, a Dumbfuck Klown will never be able to hide teh stupid.

  36. 45

    Michael spews:

    Anyone that looks at the Sierra Club endorsements would already be voting for Inslee anyway, but in the past the Sierra Club has been able to turn out large numbers of folks for phone banking, door belling, and the like which do make a difference.

  37. 46

    Michael spews:


    To protest a bill that would require women to undergo an ultrasound before having an abortion, Virginia State Sen. Janet Howell (D-Fairfax) on Monday attached an amendment that would require men to have a rectal exam and a cardiac stress test before obtaining a prescription for erectile dysfunction medication.
    “We need some gender equity here,” she told HuffPost.

    That’s too funny.

  38. 47

    Isambard Kingdom Brunel spews:


    I get what your saying, but I think McKenna is as much a shoe-in as Obama is….

  39. 48

    proud leftist spews:

    Have you ever met Jay Inslee? It’ll be close, but Jay will win. McKenna has more name recognition. That is all he has, however. Jay is not the political and social nerd that McKenna is.

  40. 49

    Zotz sez: Rob McKenna is a bigot. spews:

    Rob McKenna is a homophobic bigot.

    King County Councilman Rob McKenna, criticized the ruling’s wording as too broad and said its argument that there is no compelling state interest to deny marriage to two people in a committed relationship could leave marriage open to blood relatives or those practicing polygamy.

    “It threatens to destroy all standards we apply to the right of marriage,” he said.

  41. 50

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 44: When you picture Oakland you wouldn’t think of a blue-blood sport like crew (rowing, for the un-initiated). But Oakland Strokes has a long history there as a great crew club which produces scholarship athletes and even a few national team members.

    And quit snickering about the name. It pre-dates the time when everything had to have a sexual connotation.

    While a senior in high school, my daughter rowed in a dual meet with the Oakland Strokes in Oakland. The folks there were great people, providing her team with lodging, meals, and even loaning them shells and oars so they wouldn’t have to drive them all the way from Seattle. During a practice they rowed up to a swanky restaurant with a pier and valet parking for yachts, and tried to get the valet to park their eight-man shell for them while they went inside for lunch. The valet refused (understandably – it was clearly a joke anyway), but the folks in the restaurant all came out to the balcony to cheer on the rowers and encourage the valet to “let them in – we’ll pay for their lunch”!

  42. 51

    Steve spews:

    @50 I imagine that the Strokes do their rowing on Lake Merrit or the estuary.

    I did a lot of work for Kaiser Permanente, which is headquartered in Oakland. I was in SF one afternoon in 1989 and was going to head across the Bay Bridge to Oakland because I knew that the people I worked with would be there late, and I should be able to get there by 5:15PM or so. But I had had bad vibes all that day and headed back to Palo Alto instead. It was only those “bad vibes” that kept me from probably being on the Cypress Freeway at 5:03PM that afternoon when it collapsed during the Loma Prieta earthquake.

  43. 52

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 51: An acuantance of mine, a medical doctor who was also in the Army Medical Corps, was supposed to be in San Francisco in 1989 attending a training seminar. His schedule had him on the traveling on the Cypress Freeway that afternoon at about 5:00 p.m. But right before departure from Seattle, he came down with a terrible case of the flu. It lasted just 24 hours. He was sorry he missed the seminar (he was scheduled to give a presentation), but was shocked to turn on the news to see the earthquake and it’s aftermath.

  44. 53

    Steve spews:

    @52 Shocked is a bit of an understatement. When I saw the first helicopter video come in of the Cypress, the TV announcers didn’t quite understand what had happened there. But I knew the Cypress was little different than our own viaduct and when I realized that the upper and lower deck rails were only a few feet apart, it was an “Oh, my fucking Gawd!!!” moment. I thought far more people had died there than as it turned out, which I recall was 56 dead. I still have a couple of copies of the SF Examiner special edition from that day, released when they thought the death toll from the quake was far higher than it turned out to be. People going home early to watch the World Series game between the Giants and the A’s saved a lot of lives that day.