Open Thread 1/26

- Jay Inslee’s piece on marriage equality in Washington State.

- Mitt’s Income vs. Your Income (h/t)

- It’s time to move from a cop hating anarchist dogma centered occupation to what the actual occupy wall street movement was really about, i.e., love, compassion, understanding, a new way of thinking, ending war, empathy, protecting the environment, truth, economic justice, election reform, HOPE.

- I’ve been really grateful for these pieces by Ta-Nehisi Coates debunking the notion that slaveholders could have been compensated before the civil war to end slavery.

- There’s still some off season left, but next season maybe isn’t looking great for Mariners fans.

- SOPA

Comments

  1. 1

    formerobamafan spews:

    I’m a former Obama fan because I can see thru the shell-game he has played with $5 TRILLION more debt the past 3 years. It’s immoral and unconscienable…just like Obama said when he was Senator Obama about the spendthrift Bush.

    A government watchdog says U.S. taxpayers are still owed $132.9 billion that companies haven’t repaid from the financial bailout, and some of that will never be recovered.
    The bailout launched at the height of the financial crisis in September 2008 will continue to exist for years, says a report issued Thursday by Christy Romero, the acting special inspector general for the $700 billion bailout. Some bailout programs, such as the effort to help homeowners avoid foreclosure by reducing mortgage payments, will last as late as 2017, costing the government an additional $51 billion or so.

    Look, anyone can feel good while they are spending Borrowed money. YIPPEE! The problems arise when the bill comes due. Oh yeah, that’s our next generations problem . Obama has done absolutely nothing to get the debt in check other than spout off about tax increases in an unstable economy. Politically savvy…but it won’t work. Individuals and Corporations have so many options about what to do with their money. Doubling Capital gains rates?? What are the consequences.

    The biggest problem with the Obama regime is they appear incapable of understanding the undesirable consequences of their populist brainfarts. Obama has been campaigning for re-election from Day 1 and has shown zero true leadership. I thought he might be different from Bush..but by his actions and policies, Obama is as bad if not worse.
    Not sure Romney or Newt will be much better, but I think in the end a plurality of Independents will say it’s worth a try. That the Obama policies are known and have failed…and can see thru the temporary euphoria of throwing around $5 TRILLION of printing press cash. And I think the Middle East will soon blow up. Iran will takeover Iraq and Israel will be forced to act very soon.

  2. 2

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Monstrous Working Conditions In China’s iPhone Plants

    “Employees work … seven days a week, and live in crowded dorms … they stand so long that their legs swell until they can hardly walk.

    “Under-age workers have helped build Apple’s products ….

    “[S]uppliers have improperly disposed of hazardous waste and falsified records … 137 workers at an Apple supplier in eastern China were injured after they were ordered to use a poisonous chemical to clean iPhone screens …

    “[E]xplosions at iPad factories … killed four people and injured 77.

    “‘Apple never cared about anything other than … decreasing production cost,’ said Li Mingqi, who … worked in management at … one of Apple’s most important manufacturing partners.”

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46....._business/

    Full Disclosure: Roger Rabbit does not own an iPad, iPhone, or Apple stock.

  3. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I’ll Bet This Guy Is A Republican

    “The son of New York City’s police commissioner Raymond Kelly is under investigation after a woman accused him of rape, sources tell NBC New York.

    “A source confirms a woman filed a sexual assault complaint against Greg Kelly, co-host of Fox 5’s ‘Good Day New York,’ with authorities at the 13th Precinct.”

    http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_n.....rape-probe

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Under our system, even the guilty are presumed innocent until convicted in a court of law. So, until a jury finds this guy is a Republican, we have to assume he’s not.

  4. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Why People Who Paid Their Mortgages Are Being Foreclosed

    “More and more, homeowners say that mortgages they thought were dead and buried are springing back to life, sometimes haunting them all the way into foreclosure. …

    “Diane Thompson, an attorney with the National Consumer Law Center, says she has defended hundreds of foreclosure cases, and in nearly all of them, the homeowner was not in default. ‘The record-keeping on the part of the mortgage servicers is not to be trusted.’

    “The problems grew from a lot of sloppy recordkeeping that began during the housing boom, when Wall Street built a quick-and-dirty back-office operation to process mortgages quickly so lenders could sell as many loans as possible. …

    “Now it’s becoming clear just how dysfunctional and, according to several state attorneys general, how fraudulent the whole system was.

    “Depositions from ‘affidavit slaves’ depict a surreal, assembly-line world in which the banks and their partner firms hired hair stylists, fast-food kids and Wal-Mart floor workers, paying them $10 a day, to pose as bank vice presidents, assistant secretaries and corporate attorneys.

    “These ‘robosigners’ became a national sensation in the fall of 2010 when it was revealed that they faked titles, forged documents and backdated affidavits so they could make up for the bypassed procedures and foreclose on properties. They passed around notary stamps as if they were salt. They did all of this, they testified, without verifying a single word in any of the documents – as is required by law. And it was all done, they say, to foreclose on as many homeowners as fast as possible.”

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46.....al_estate/

  5. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The Newt wants to balance the federal budget by establishing a moon colony.

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com.....ny-by-2020

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Is there a sentient creature left on this planet who still believes Republicans are serious about cutting spending and balancing the budget? If so, he/she/it has been living under a rock.

  6. 6

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    “Is there a sentient creature left on this planet who still believes Republicans are serious about cutting spending and balancing the budget?”

    You’re correct: the Republicans have no intentions of cutting spending any more than the Democrats do. Both parties are just separate wings of the Big Government Party.

    I’d prefer we end our foreign adventures, attack crony capitalism, and mind our own business on the international stage. We’ve built-up enough debt and bad will from our overseas adventures to last a century or more.

  7. 7

    I am an Obama Fan who believes Poster #1 is and was never an Obama supporter who believes #1 is just a wingnut troll :) spews:

    . Saved the collapse of the American automotive industry by making GM restructure before bailing them out, and putting incentive money to help the industry

    2. Shifted the focus of the war from Iraq to Afghanistan, and putting the emphasis on reducing terrorism where it should have been all along

    3. Relaxed Anti-American tensions throughout the world

    4. Signed order to close the prisoner “torture camp” at Guantanamo Bay

    5. Has made the environment a national priority, and a primary source for job creation

    6. Has made education a national priority by putting emphasis and money behind new ideas like charter schools, but speaking directly to school children in telling them they have to do their part.

    7. Won the Nobel Peace Prize

    8. $789 billion economic stimulus plan

    9. Appointment of first Latina to the Supreme Court

    10. Attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles

    11. Authorized construction/opening of additional health centers to care for veterans

    12. Renewed dialogue with NATO and other allies and partners on strategic issues.

    13. Beginning the process of reforming and restructuring the military 20 years after the Cold War to a more modern fighting force… this includes new procurement policies, increasing size of military, new technology and cyber units and operations, etc.

    14. Better body armor is now being provided to our troops

    15. “Cash for clunkers” program offers vouchers to trade in fuel inefficient, polluting old cars for new cars; stimulates auto sales

    16. Changed the failing/status quo military command in Afghanistan

    17. Closed offshore tax safe havens

    18. Deployed additional troops to Afghanistan

    19. Ended media “blackout” on war casualties; reporting full information

    20. Ended previous policy of awarding no-bid defense contracts

    21. . Ended media blackout on war casualties and the return of fallen soldiers to Dover AFB.

    22. Ended previous policy of cutting the FDA and circumventing FDA rules

    23. Ended previous practice of forbidding Medicare from negotiating with drug manufacturers for cheaper drugs; the federal government is now realizing hundreds of millions in savings

    24. Ended previous practice of having White House aides rewrite scientific and environmental rules, regulations, and reports

    25. American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has created 2.1 million jobs (as of 12/31/09).

    26. Ended previous policy of not regulating and labeling carbon dioxide emissions

    27. Ended previous policy of offering tax benefits to corporations who outsource American jobs; the new policy is to promote in-sourcing to bring jobs back

    28. Ended previous policy on torture; the US now has a no torture policy and is in compliance with the Geneva Convention standards

    29. . Launched Recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, an unprecedented step to provide transparency and accountability through technology.

    30. Ended previous practice of protecting credit card companies; in place of it are new consumer protections from credit card industry’s predatory practices

    31. Ended previous “stop-loss” policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date

    32. Energy producing plants must begin preparing to produce 15% of their energy from renewable sources

    33. Established a National Performance Officer charged with saving the federal government money and making federal operations more efficient

    34. Established a new cyber security office

    35. Expanded the SCHIP program to cover health care for 4 million more children

    36. Expanding vaccination programs

    37. Families of fallen soldiers have expenses

    38. . Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America’s Veterans.

    39. Federal support for stem-cell and new biomedical research

    40. Funds for high-speed, broadband Internet access to K-12 schools

    41. Responded with compassion and leadership to the earthquake in Haiti

    42. Immediate and efficient response to the floods in North Dakota and other natural disasters

    43. . Launched Business.gov – enabling conversation and online collaboration between small business owners, government representatives and industry experts in discussion forums relevant to starting and managing a business. Great for the economy.

    44. Improved housing for military personnel

    45. Improved conditions at Walter Reed Military Hospital and other military hospitals

    46. Changed failing war strategy in Afghanistan.

    47. Improving benefits for veterans

    48. Increased infrastructure spending (roads, bridges, power plants…) after years of neglect

    49. Donated his $1.4 million Nobel Prize to nonprofits.

    50. Increasing opportunities in AmeriCorps program

    51. Provided tax credits to first-time home buyers through the Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009 to revitalize the U.S. housing market.

    52. Increasing pay and benefits for military personnel

    53. Increasing student loans

    54. Instituted a new policy on Cuba, allowing Cuban families to return “home” to visit loved ones

    55. Cracked down on companies that deny sick pay, vacation and health insurance to workers by abusing the employee classification of independent contractor. Such companies also avoid paying Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance taxes for those workers.

    56. Limited salaries of senior White House aides; cut to $100,000

    57. Limits on lobbyists’ access to the White House

    58. Protected 300,000 education jobs, such as teachers, principals, librarians, and counselors through the Recovery Act that would have otherwise been lost.

    59. Limits on White House aides working for lobbyists after their tenure in the administration

    60. Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act on February 4, 2009, provides quality health care to 11 million kids – 4 million who were previously uninsured.

    61. Lower drug costs for seniors

    62. Making more loans available to small businesses

    63. Many more press conferences and town halls and much more media access than previous administration

    64. . Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first piece of comprehensive legislation aimed at improving the lives of Americans living with paralysis

    65. New Afghan War policy that limits aerial bombing and prioritizes aid, development of infrastructure, diplomacy, and good government practices by Afghans

    66. Announced creation of a Joint Virtual Lifetime Electronic Record for members of the U.S. Armed Forces to improve quality of medical care.

    67. New federal funding for science and research labs

    68. New funds for school construction

    69. Ordered all federal agencies to undertake a study and make recommendations for ways to cut spending

    70. Ordered a review of all federal operations to identify and cut wasteful spending and practices

    71. . Negotiated deal with Swiss banks to permit US government to gain access to records of tax evaders and criminals.

    72. Phasing out the expensive F-22 war plane and other outdated weapons systems, which weren’t even used or needed in Iraq/Afghanistan

    73. Reengaged in the agreements/talks on global warming and greenhouse gas emissions

    74. Provided tax credit to workers thus cutting taxes for 95% of America’s working families.

    75. Reengaged in the treaties/agreements to protect the Antarctic

    76. Removed restrictions on embryonic stem-cell research

    77. . Helped reverse a downward spiral of the stock market. On January 19, 2009, the last day of President Bush’s presidency, the Dow closed at 8,218.22. In February 2010, the Dow closed at 10,309.24

    78. Renewed loan guarantees for Israel

    79. Restarted the nuclear non-proliferation talks and building back up the nuclear inspection infrastructure/protocols

    80. Provided attractive tax write-offs for those who buy hybrid automobiles.

    81. Returned money authorized for refurbishment of White House offices and private living quarters

    82. Sent envoys to Middle East and other parts of the world that had been neglected for years; reengaging in multilateral and bilateral talks and diplomacy

    83. Unveiled a program on Earth Day 2009 to develop the renewable energy projects on the waters of our Outer Continental Shelf that produce electricity from wind, wave, and ocean currents. These regulations will enable, for the first time ever, the nation to tap into our ocean’s vast sustainable resources to generate clean energy in an environmentally sound and safe manner.

    84. Signed national service legislation; expanded national youth service program

    85. States are permitted to enact federal fuel efficiency standards above federal standards

    86. Students struggling to make college loan payments can have their loans refinanced

    87. Successful release of US captain held by Somali pirates; authorized the SEALS to do their job

    88. The FDA is now regulating tobacco

    89. Ended the previous stop-loss policy that kept soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan longer than their enlistment date.

    90. The missile defense program is being cut by $1.4 billion in 2010

    91. The public can meet with federal housing insurers to refinance (the new plan can be completed in one day) a mortgage if they are having trouble paying

    92. The “secret detention” facilities in Eastern Europe and elsewhere are being closed

    93. US financial and banking rescue plan

    94. US Navy increasing patrols off Somali coast

    95. . Signed the Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act to stop fraud and wasteful spending in the defense procurement and contracting system.

    96. Visited more countries and met with more world leaders than any president in his first six months in office

    97. Improved relations with Iran

    98. Improved U.S. policy on climate change

    99. Set timetable for exiting Iraq (already started removing troops)

    100. Improved relations with Russia

    101. Improved relations with the Islamic World

    102. Made progress towards greater cooperation on limiting nuclear proliferation

    103. Economic stimulus plan has created jobs. (Unemployment rate decreasing)

    104. Drastically slowed down the recession

    105. Saved Wall Street

    106. Passed the Lilly Ledbetter Act (equal work for equal pay) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....ct_of_2009

    107. HEALTHCARE REFORM

    108. Ordered the military operation that killed Osama Bin Laden

  8. 8

    ArtFart spews:

    @1 Oh, the horror! Deficits!! DEBT!!!! Oh what shall we do when the bill comes due?

    I’ve got news for you, pal. There’s only one group who’s trying to declare the bill immediately due and payable: The Republican politicians and their corporate masters who’ve grown rich as hell slurping up all that borrowed money. They want to see it “paid off”, but not by them. They’ve been eating lavishly at the public table, and now they’re going to excuse themselves to “go powder their noses” and leave the rest of us poor sods holding the check.

    How good are you at washing dishes?

  9. 9

    spews:

    @1 Yup. You hate the President. We get that.

    Don’t just tell what the President of the United States is doing wrong, what do you want him do right? What are YOUR thoughts?
    What would you to fix the mess, that would crash the economy the least?
    We would love to hear.

    Not sure Romney or Newt will be much better,
    My car isn’t great, but not sure a Ford or a Kia will be much better….
    Then why change?
    P.S. And you and I both know Romney or Newt would be far worse.

  10. 10

    formerobamafan spews:

    The Republicans have orchestrated one charade after another so they can “pretend” to be against raising the debt ceiling and “pretend” to be against cutting spending. If they were serious, they would have taken spending head-on last year and let the chips fall where they may. Instead, they have given President Obama the green-light to raise the debt another $1.2 TRILLION. They are as guilty as he is.
    For the so-called intellectuals who preach that the Debt doesn’t matter…you are foolish. If you are old it may not matter, but think about the impact down the road. In Europe all they are doing is putting temporary bandaids on the crisis to kick the can down the road making the ultimate consequences even worse than if we had simply had our day of reckoning $5 TRILLION ago. Bush and Obama are real a$$holes IMHO.
    Not leaders. If Ron Paul was so flaky on some of his foreign policy/isolationist stuff, he at least has a clue. The other guys have just kept printing money. BOTH Parties.
    The consequences will ultimately be massive inflation..or default…or both.
    Bush was so pathetic, I thought perhaps Obama would do things differently. Obama has merely accelerated our fiscal demise. These 2 phony’s keep kicking the can so ultimately some grown-up will hopefully have the courage to do what is necessary…but anyone who thinks there are no consequences is mentally challenged and has their head in the clouds.
    The Stock Market is up. Big deal. The faster it rises, the further it will fall when the deck of cards collapses. All we have is a bunch of gutless fools from both parties pointing the finger at each other. I’m tired of this BS…aren’t any of you??

  11. 11

    Steve spews:

    “I’m tired of this BS…aren’t any of you??”

    Yeah, that’s why I tell you stupid goatfuckers to go to hell.

  12. 12

    dv90821 spews:

    Newt’s trying to win my vote by proposing to build a colony on the moon and based on Robert Heinlein SF novel “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” it has some advantages for him in the form of open marriages:

    Perhaps what really caught Newt’s eye are lunar society’s marriage practices (he did once speculate about what it would be like to have sex in space). Because of its origins as a prison colony, the male/female ratio is generously skewed towards men roughly 2:1. As a result, lunar women are given the reigns to take multiple husbands and form complex group marriages, though Newt may not be comfortable being just one in a stable of husbands.

  13. 13

    Michael spews:

    Pretty much knew this one was coming.

    TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran is ready to revive talks with the world powers, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday, as toughening sanctions aim at forcing Tehran to sharply scale back its nuclear program.
    http://news.yahoo.com/ahmadine.....32174.html

    And O’ so nice to have a level headed president to handle this. Mitt and Newt have been flying off the handle for weeks.

  14. 14

    spews:

    @13:
    Yeah. I may not be the biggest Obama fan in the world, but we’re not yet in a #!@%ing shooting war with Iran, which is where a GOP presidency will quickly take us.

    Also, how long until the Mariners get moved to Oklahoma City as well?

  15. 15

    Michael spews:

    Oops!

    Ex-aides to Wisconsin governor charged with misconduct

    The charges against the women, both aides to Walker when he was Milwaukee County executive, stemmed from a probe into allegations of misconduct in public office as well as political solicitation by public officials and employees, according to the criminal complaint.
    http://www.reuters.com/article.....LZ20120126

    I can’t wait to see Walker go down in flames.

  16. 16

    ArtFart spews:

    I propose that we establish a colony on the Moon, and send Newt there as colonial governor on a lifetime appointment.

  17. 17

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 16: Newt’s Moon Adventure:

    “Okay, Newt, this was your idea, so we are sending you there first to get the moon colony established. But we know you fancy yourself a historian, so we thought that perhaps we should re-create the conditions of the first Jamestown colonists. I think you will enjoy it. Besides, after cutting the budget again and again, there’s no other choice except to make this venture self-supporting and managed by a private company.

    Now, everything you need over the next year must be contained in your ship. And included in that will be whatever you will need to find a way to grow food, recycle your water supply, and create oxygen for the next year. So pack carefully. If I were you, I would leave Calista at home. And don’t get any ideas about bringing along a substitute for her, there simply isn’t room.

    Another ship will come along in the next year or two. If you have produced enough products to pay for your voyage, plus a healthy profit to the company which built, launched, and operated the spaceship, then they will drop off some additional supplies which might help you expand operations over the next couple of years. They might bring another settler or two, but remember that means you will have to share your supplies with them, for the next year or so, until they get their own facilities built and operating.

    Once you get everything established, we will come in and take over. You can work in the lunar rock crushing division as an assistant supervisor of a crew of two. The rest of the money will then be private property. Oh, and don’t forget, any wages you make will be paid in the form of company script, redeemable at the company store. And don’t forget to pay your rent for the little plot of land we originally gave you to build your little shelter. If you are thrifty, you might even be able to buy a small TV someday, so you can see what life is like back on earth!”

  18. 18

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 15: So Walker was using taxpayer money to run for governor. I’m not really very surprised.

    Maybe now would be a good time for someone to get access to his records as governor and find out who’s been campaigning against the recall effort while on taxpayer time.

  19. 19

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    dumbass @1: What are you afraid of? We all die. The debt is passes on to future generations. If I have a T-bill and gift it to my grandkid, he has an asset, not a liability. The payment of the interest is a distributional issue (who pays what or how much taxes), not a “burden”.

    You know what “paid down” the massive federal debt from WWII? Well, shitheel, it’s like this: Economic growth, low interest rates ’45-’65, and inflation explains nearly all of it. Balanced budgets contributed practically nothing.

    But you know, yahoo fucks like you have been touting the disasterous implications from “runaway federal debt” since Roosevelt died. It was a popular meme with the fascist John Birch Society in the 50′s. So you’re running in really great company.

    The stupid. It burns.

  20. 20

    rhp6033 spews:

    Regarding Romney’s Income, vs. ours:

    The calculator tells you how long you would have to work at your current wages to equal Romney’s 2010 income. Basically, it would be somewhere in the neighborhood of three to four centuries.

    But simply looking at it another way, we can see that Romney earned slightly less than $10,000 per hour for his income in 2010.

    Except that he didn’t work for it, it simply rolled in. His only “work” was managing the money, which I presume he paid others to do the grunt work for him. He says it’s all in a blind trust, so he’s not even deciding how to invest it. We probably spend more time balancing our own checkbooks and doing our own taxes than he spends on his money.

    So remember the next time the Scott Walker types argue that government workers who earn $20.00 per hour, or even $35.00 per hour, are “overpaid”.

  21. 21

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @10. Ron Paul is a moron. He advocates going back on the gold standard. If you want to crash the economy back to 19th century levels, that would be a good way to start. It is beyond stupid….and would lead to massive and ruinous deflation.

  22. 22

    rhp6033 spews:

    New polling by NBC/WSJ:

    Based on the situation today, Gingrich will probably win the GOP nomination by appealing to the Tea Party and southern Republican primary voters, the most conservative fringes of the party. His lead on Romney and the other candidates appears to be growing, even outside of the southern states.

    But the bad news for Gingrich is that in a head-to-head match-up with Obama, Romney loses the general election by 18 points – 37% to Obama’s 55%. Gingrich is able to get a small majority only among white male voters, but scores particularly badly among women voters (no surprise there) and independents, with Obam carrying a clear 52% majority of independent voters.

    WSJ/NBC Poll

    One interesting point: Gingrich has been running against Obama throughout the primaries, attacking him at every turn. Obama hasn’t even begun to campaign against Gingrich. Once that happens, Gingrich might end up making the Goldwater/Johnson campaign look good for Republicans in comparison.

  23. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @19 I wish someone would loan me $15 trillon at zero interest with no maturity date. Debt-averse as I am, I’d take that deal in a heartbeat.

  24. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    If the Stoopid Party gets in and decides to default our $1.5 trillion debt to China, I’m with them on that one! How come borrowing money from Beijing and not paying it back is a bad idea? That may turn out to be the best thing Chimp ever did.

  25. 25

    spews:

    @10.
    you still are not answering the question.
    You said that you are against the government debt, Now what are you for?

    What would you do to fix the mess, if you were in charge?

  26. 26

    Rujax! spews:

    10. formerobamafan spews:

    The Republicans have orchestrated one charade after another so they can “pretend” to be against raising the debt ceiling and “pretend” to be against cutting spending. If they were serious, they would have taken spending head-on last year and let the chips fall where they may. Instead, they have given President Obama the green-light to raise the debt another $1.2 TRILLION. They are as guilty as he is.
    For the so-called intellectuals who preach that the Debt doesn’t matter…you are foolish. If you are old it may not matter, but think about the impact down the road. In Europe all they are doing is putting temporary bandaids on the crisis to kick the can down the road making the ultimate consequences even worse than if we had simply had our day of reckoning $5 TRILLION ago. Bush and Obama are real a$$holes IMHO.
    Not leaders. If Ron Paul was so flaky on some of his foreign policy/isolationist stuff, he at least has a clue. The other guys have just kept printing money. BOTH Parties.
    The consequences will ultimately be massive inflation..or default…or both.
    Bush was so pathetic, I thought perhaps Obama would do things differently. Obama has merely accelerated our fiscal demise. These 2 phony’s keep kicking the can so ultimately some grown-up will hopefully have the courage to do what is necessary…but anyone who thinks there are no consequences is mentally challenged and has their head in the clouds.
    The Stock Market is up. Big deal. The faster it rises, the further it will fall when the deck of cards collapses. All we have is a bunch of gutless fools from both parties pointing the finger at each other. I’m tired of this BS…aren’t any of you??
    01/26/2012 at 12:15 pm

    Paid troll.

  27. 27

    spews:

    10 – Japan’s debt is over twice its GDP. They owe almost all of it to themselves. As long as Japanese feel they’re all in it together, they have little to be concerned about.

    60 percent of America’s debt is owned by Americans. And the remainder is of some concern in that it shouldn’t grow out of control but at the same time Americans have claims on other countries’ debt.

    The issue isn’t debt – it’s credit. It has to keep flowing in order for businesses to operate. The likelihood of another credit seize up is considerable but it’s all the banks’ fault with their speculations on exotic derivatives and some of the other reckless bets they make.

    Only one time has America been completely debt free and had its budget balanced at the same time. A twelve year depression followed.

    You’re blowing smoke out your butt on this.

  28. 28

    rhp6033 spews:

    YLB @ 27: “…Only one time has America been completely debt free and had its budget balanced at the same time. A twelve year depression followed.”

    I think you are referring only to the 20th century & beyond. Andrew Jackson insisted on paying off the national debt while he was President, but at a cost of delayed infrastucture development (they called it “internal improvements” at the time).

    There were probably other times when the budget was balanced and the national debt eliminated before the Civil War. But our government at the time was extremely small, with standing armed forces (army and navy) at about 6,000 officer’s and men. Money was so tight that they wouldn’t allow the formation of more than two horse dragoon units (the fore-runners of the cavalry), which were located mostly in the far west. In Texas army infantry was expected to go on the march, pursue, and capture Comanchie raiders, who just sat on the hilltops and laughed at the silly white men who walked like sqaws in their futile pursuit of the raiders, instead of fightin on horseback like braves.

  29. 29

    spews:

    28 – No I was thinking of the Andrew Jackson years.

    And it was ONLY that time. I’m pretty sure of that.

    We’ve had our budget balanced or running in the black a number of times but we were only debt free that one time..

    Jackson did run in the black in those years and his solution to the intake of that excess cash was to distribute it to the states.

  30. 30

    spews:

    28 – And it’s interesting that you note that Jackson held off on making “internal improvements” to indulge his debt-free mania..

    That lack of public investment in the commons almost certainly contributed to the subsequent depression.

    Probably no economy throughout history could have sustainably prospered without public sector investment.

    If you have growing populations, you need to keep providing productive things for them to do.

    Otherwise known as “promoting the general welfare”..

    Wow, what an arcane thought to some of our trolls.