by Carl, 12/19/2012, 8:01 AM

139 Responses to “Open Thread 12/19”

1. Serial conservative spews:

Liberal Talk Station Folds; Blames Obama Campaign, Lack Of Like-Minded Financial Support

Unfortunately, it was not a two-way street, and lack of advertising support from the Obama campaign all the way down to local races ensured that we will be unable to continue into the new year.

Wherever Obama was spending his dollars in OH, it apparently wasn’t enough to keep this station afloat.

I wonder if they, too, were cutting checks to Al Franken while they were circling the drain?

Nah. He’s a senator now.

2. Serial conservative spews:

Obama bin Laden is dead, and General Motors is alive!

Still, taxpayers will almost certainly lose billions of dollars in the $49.5 billion GM bailout. If the government sold the rest of its stock at current prices, taxpayers would lose more than $13 billion.

From The Detroit News:

Well, going cyanotic, losing market share, and offering huge discounts on things like Silverado trucks and a lease of the Volt.

Hopenchange, baby. Op, op, op, op Oppa GM Style.

At least the government turned a profit on AIG.

3. Serial conservative spews:

So, Obama is TIME’s Person Of The Year.

I’m not sure if that’s a step up, or a step down, from this:

You — Yes, You — Are TIME’s Person of the Year

By Lev Grossman Monday, Dec. 25, 2006

Read more:,9171,1570810,00.html#ixzz2FW0Xwr1P

4. rhp6033 spews:

Breaking News: Robert Bork, the conservative who fired Watergate prosecutor Archibald Cox after two superiors had resigned rather than do so, has died. Bork gained fame and noteriety during the Senate hearings on his nomination to the U.S. Supreme Court, his nomination was withdrawn.

5. Serial conservative spews:

@ 4

Bork’s nomination wasn’t withdrawn. The Senate voted against confirming him, 58-42.

6. Serial conservative spews:

I read once that the Reagan conservative brain trust promoted three judges as possible future Supreme Court nominees.

They were Bork, Richard Posner, and Antonin Scalia.

Posner proved to be not sufficiently conservative to be nominated.

7. No Time for Fascists spews:

I strayed into office politics today and had an escalating discussion with a female co worker about welfare. The only person I ever knew who was on welfare was a woman with no skills and no education who existed on welfare till her kids started kindergarten because she wanted to be the person raising her kids. When they started kindergarten, then she found a low wage existence job. My co worker was pissed that she had pay for that cheat.

She had gone through an ugly divorce and worked full time and raised her kids as a single mom. She told how she had asked the state for help while working and the deadbeat dad was refusing to pay child support but they refused, but the state would help if she went on welfare. She seems to think it was easy to raise kids on Welfare while it was hard to raise kids while working. My feeling was both were miserable. She felt she shouldn’t have to pay for that woman milking the system.

When I ask her if she felt she was cheating the company by sitting around talking politics instead of working at her desk, she got pissed at me. “That was different! I earned this.” At this we agreed to disagree and went back out separate cubicals.

I have met people who felt since they had an awful teacher, instead of asking that he be fire, they wanted to keep him, so the next year’s class was similarly inflicted. My coworker seemed like that. She worked and was miserable, so she resents anyone who found a different way, especially if her tax dollars paid for it in some small fraction.

My feeling on that is nothing is more important than raising kids and if the mom found a way to stay home till they started school so other people were not raising her kids, good on her.

8. Serial conservative spews:

@ 7

You’ve only known one person on welfare?

What are you, 20 years old and born and raised on Mercer Island?

9. No Time for Fascists spews:

It’s been interesting, in the last few days, my coworkers have muttered these anecdotal stories about how immigrants, illegals and welfare recipients have it so easy, how they all get so much free stuff but it’s always second and third hand stories about other states. “My sister from Arizona tells about….” or “I have a cousin in Texas and they tell….”

The context is that WE are the good people, who work, and all them THEM are lazy people, the Takers. The only Takers I know is my home town full of retired elderly who defunded the library system and the police department, but nobody better touch their Medicare and Medicaid.

10. No Time for Fascists spews:

Yes, none of other my friends and/or acquaintances, has ever admitted to being on Welfare. I have read and heard lots of anecdotal stories but she was the only first hand knowledge I have.
Why do you find that so hard to believe?

11. Roger Rabbit spews:

@3 “… for building a presidency that spells the end of the Reagan realignment that defined American politics for 30 years.”

Suck on it.

12. Roger Rabbit spews:

@4 His legacy will live on, in our lexicon, every time a nominee gets borked.

13. Roger Rabbit spews:

@8 He doesn’t have your relatives.

14. Roger Rabbit spews:

@8 Seriously, if you want to diss on single moms who exes aren’t paying child support, then let’s not forget Big Business gets $5 of corporate welfare for every $1 that goes to needy individuals. Businessmen are the biggest welfare bums of all.

15. Serial conservative spews:

@ 10

I’m just thinking about that famous line someone uttered after Nixon won (paraphrasing):

‘I can’t believe he won. I don’t know anybody who voted for him.’

Given the number of people who recently have been unemployed in our nation – at one point nearly 10% of those who wanted to be in the workforce, you must be awfully insulated from what much of America is experiencing. And yet you criticize @ 9, @8 what others think of people on welfare, through your rose-colored glasses and your personal knowledge base of N=1.

Just my observation.

16. Serial conservative spews:

@ 13

Hey, RR, you and I have something in common, ‘relative’ly speaking.

Both of us had worthless brothers who took their own lives.

Merry Christmas. Oh, and ‘suck on it’ @11.

17. Serial conservative spews:

@ 14

I didn’t say anything about single moms. I referred to how few people who had been welfare recipients @ 7 knew. I haven’t said anything in this thread about welfare recipients.

Unless, of course, your brother was one before he popped one too many downers.

18. Expat(!)Chad spews:

I see that somebody found Serial’s flush handle.

Please leave it alone.

19. Serial conservative spews:

Secretary Clinton, call your office. When you’re feeling well enough.

The AP reports that the State Department’s security chief and two others have resigned in the wake of a harsh report on the fatal attack on a U.S. diplomatic post in Libya on Sept. 11.

RR, somehow nothing in the report about how a child could fire a RPG. They must not have read your summary.

20. No Time for Fascists spews:

And yet you criticize @ 9, @8 what others think of people on welfare,
Gods, you are an FUD spreading idiot,
Did you READ what I wrote? That was the mood of my co workers. They are like you. They seem to think they are the chosen ones with jobs and a work ethic and everyone else is takers. They have no compassion or understanding of what it’s like.
I think it’s nasty being on welfare and have worked very hard to never ever be in a situation where I would need help.
And yet, apparently, I have been blessed to be around people who have been similarly lucky. And I do feel it’s luck. Corporate would shed people in a heartbeat if they felt it would help their share price by a 1/10 of a percent.

21. No Time for Fascists spews:

@16 You are a complete ass.

22. Serial conservative spews:

@ 20

I think you’re blessed not to be around people with employment misfortune the same way Aryan Nation members in Idaho are blessed not to dwell amongst people of color.

You’re not blessed. You’re insulated. Pull your head out and breathe.

23. No Time for Fascists spews:

Yes, I think I’m blessed to have a good job, but I’m not like you, I think it’s patriotic to pay my taxes and maintain a working society.
By your logic, which I think is wrong as usual, if I was not “insulated”, I’d be apparently be like you and want to gut social security, medicare, welfare and all safety nets? You have never written anything but contempt for any anyone on those programs. I’d want to drag America back to the Robber Barron age, like you do?
This coming from the man who defined Travon was a thug who got what he deserved and wants roving bands of rioting blacks to be met by white vigilantes in Detroit.
I reject that and your loathsome miserly, bigoted world view.

24. No Time for Fascists spews:

Republicans will pay for guns for teachers in school, but not books for the kids in school.
What’s wrong with them?

25. YLB spews:

He [President Obama] will take the oath on Jan. 20 as the first Democrat in more than 75 years to get a majority of the popular vote twice. Only five other Presidents have done that in all of U.S. history.

Given the facts above, what about “Bob is an insufferable ass” doesn’t anyone see?

26. Tea for everyone spews:

Come on, Let’s outlaw planes, the Kamakazis killed thousands at Pearl Harbor and the terrorists in 9/11 without a single gun fired

27. rhp6033 spews:

Serial’s back, and back to his same old game of trying to distract us from Republican idiocy by starting a debate about welfare, both real and imagined.

In the meantime, the NRA is apparantly planning on laying low, and making some meaningless offers to debate gun control, until the furor dies down of Sand Creek Elementary School.

“We think it is poor form for a politician or a special interest group to try to push a legislative agenda on the back of any tragedy.”
– NRA, after 2008 Northern Illinois shootings

“Now is not the time to debate politics or discuss policy.”
– NRA, after 2009 Binghampton massacre

“At this time, anything other than prayers for the victims and their families would be inappropriate.”
– NRA, after 2011 shooting spree that wounded Gabrielle Giffords

“There will be an appropriate time down the road to engage in political and policy discussions.”
– NRA, after 2012 Aurora massacre

“NRA will not have any comment.”
– NRA, after 2012 Newtown massacre

28. Serial conservative spews:

@ 23

I see you have morphed into Doctor Steve.

I have no trouble with paying my taxes as assessed. I don’t see it as patriotic – I don’t wrap myself in our nation’s flag to make me feel better about myself, nor to distance myself from what I might think of others. I see it as my obligation, regardless of what I think of my country. I even have no trouble paying higher taxes than I do now. I just want people at (most) other income levels to do the same, if taxes are to be raised.

If the point of higher taxes is to reduce our federal debt, and if the only realistic way to make a material dent in that debt burden is to raise taxes on a whole lot of people, then it taxes are to be raised, do it much more broadly than just on people who are not you. It’s a harder concept to manage, sharing in the burden, but you’ll figure out a way to deal with it, being blessed and all.

29. rhp6033 spews:

# 1: Liberals tend to get their news from sources they can read and get all the details. Right-wingers want the ideas they already agree with to be spoon-fed to them in bumper-sticker bites on the radio.

30. Serial conservative spews:

@ 26

Know who else hasn’t been talking much about gun violence?

“It seems to a lot of observers that you made the political calculation in 2008, in your first term, and in 2012 not to talk about gun violence,” Tapper said. “This is not the first incidence of horrific gun violence of your four years. Where’ve you been?”

31. Serial conservative spews:

@ 26

I believe you misunderstood the conversation above. I said nothing about welfare other to express surprise that one of the other commenters only has encountered one person who has been a welfare recipient.

32. Serial conservative spews:

@ 26

I really don’t recall Obama saying much about gun violence when he was in Chicago earlier this year. He wasn’t exactly laying low, either.

Of course, by Chicago standards it was a slow weekend. While 35 people took a bullet, only 7 of them assumed room temperature.

What’s a candidate to say? “Crime – Boy, I don’t know.”

doesn’t quite do it, we’ve learned.

33. Serial conservative spews:

Emanuel—quoting Seattle Bike Blog—said, “I expect not only to take all of their [Seattle and Portland's] bikers but I also want all the jobs that come with this, all the economic growth that comes with this, all the opportunities of the future that come with this.”

Hey, I don’t see why not. He’s already got Boeing.

34. YLB spews:


It’s just terrible what these Republicans are planning to do to Medicare..


35. Serial conservative spews:

Speaking of laying low @ 26:

Wash. Free Beacon @FreeBeacon
RT @byrontau: State Department says no daily press briefing today. Coincidentally, the day after Benghazi report…
about 1 hour ago

I sure hope Hillary’s feeling better.

36. Politically Incorrect spews:

“So, Obama is TIME’s Person Of The Year.”

Who didn’t see that one coming!

37. YLB spews:


You know, you and other trolls (like Jerry the Klown and Puddymoron) really exposed the liberal conspiracy behind those skewed polls..


38. YLB spews:

Sigh.. All this stuff in the news about the “fiscal cliff”..

Nothing about Benghazi..

% b cs -t bob -b benghazi -c
| count |
| 66 |
1 row in set

I wonder why?

39. Serial conservative spews:

@ 33

I have a hard time following a piece (The Hill) in which one guy says he thinks Ryan is doing something, which follows the law. Ryan is writing a budget, no? Obamacare’s costs and accounting shifts – that $716B cut, in this case – are prescribed by the ACA act.

Perhaps you’re criticizing Ryan in some way because he’s not using the budget as a challenge to Obamacare?

‘splain me this, Lucy. Please.

40. YLB spews:

I have a hard time following a piece

Heh.. Funny that I find it hard to expect more from you.

41. Serial conservative spews:

@ 39

Not exactly a response. Tell me what you meant by posting about the $716B Obamacare cuts and what the House Budget Committee is doing, YLB. I know you’ve got the time to do it.

42. YLB spews:

38 – According to this, was Ryan following the law?

No respect then.. Respect now??? Pleeeeze..

43. YLB spews:

I know you’ve got the time to do it.

Heh. Funny that I find it “hard” to “respect” what you “know” Bob.

44. EvergreenRailfan spews:

I might have mentioned before that in Australia, the Government that pushed the gun ban after the Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania was from the Center-right Liberal Party. It had just been elected. Did Prime Minister John Howard pay a price for it? He did not lose another election until 2007, where his party did not just lose power, he also lost his own seat.,_1996

There is a political party in Australia fighting for gun rights, and for outdoorsmen, the Shooters and Fishers Party. Only has 2 seats in the New South Wales Legislative Council(equivalent of the State Senate here), but 2 seats gives them some sway on legislation, as the Liberal/National Coalition government there is a couple seats short of a majority.

45. Roger Rabbit spews:

@38 “‘splain me this, Lucy.”

Simple. America’s voters did not want the GOP’s budget or agenda, therefore the GOP is not going to dictate the budget or agenda.

46. Very Severe Conservative spews:

States will no longer be shackled by federally determined program requirements and enrollment criteria.
That would be great. Republicans can freely funnel that money to people who matter. We wouldn’t have spend a dime on people who don’t vote for us or fund our elections.

47. Roger Rabbit spews:

It should be obvious why Bork was an unacceptable SCOTUS nominee, but in case our stupid trolls don’t get it — and what do they get? — I’ll spell it out for them.

1. He was an extremist.
2. By following Nixon’s order to fire the special prosecutor, he became a participant in the coverup.
3. Which means he either didn’t know right from wrong or had no personal integrity.

48. Serial conservative spews:

@ 44

the GOP is not going to dictate the budget

Um, spending bills originate in the House, do they not?

49. Serial conservative spews:

@ 45

You do know it’s not your money, don’t you?

50. Very Severe Conservative spews:

Wash. Free Bacon @FreeBacon
I voted republican, so where’s my FREE bacon? GimmeGimmeGimme!

51. Roger Rabbit spews:

@35 Why don’t you read their explanation? You might learn something.

52. Serial conservative spews:

@ 46

I’m struck by # 2 and # 3 in what you wrote and by how well they apply to Susan Rice’s recent performance and reasons why she wouldn’t have made it through the confirmation process.

53. Roger Rabbit spews:

@26 The NRA doesn’t believe any time is a good time to discuss taking guns away from people who shouldn’t have them.

54. YLB spews:

47 – Bzzzzzzttt… Wrong…

The operative word is “budget” and the executive branch is required to submit a budget to Congress.

First week in February.

55. Roger Rabbit spews:

@51 You’re nuts.

56. Very Severe Conservative spews:

@48. Damn straight it’s my MONEY. I am a fierce independent. I owe the government nothing. They never did anything for me. All they do is take, take, take. Where’s my government largess, where’s my big payout? I need all of it to pay to protect myself for those people who want my stuff. I want my country back!!!

57. Very Severe Conservative spews:

It’s not the federal government’s money, it’s not my state’s money, it’s not my county’s money, it’s not my city’s money, it’s all my money and I don’t want to spend any of it on anything but me. I don’t owe society NOTHING. I am a fierce independent.

I don’t believe in regulations. They just get in the way of me getting money any way I can, and I don’t care who else gets screwed so long I get mine.

58. Serial conservative spews:

@ 55

“Where’s my government largess (sic), where’s my big payout?”

You can have my brother’s – he’s not using it. When you need more you can have RR’s brother’s. He’s not using his, either.

59. Very Severe Conservative spews:

@56. And as soon as I get enough money, I’m moving to Belize or Belgium where I don’t have pay US taxes and I get live well and take advantage of their national health care.

60. Serial conservative spews:

@ 58

Where did Alec Baldwin move after an election result he didn’t like? I keep seeing him somewhere close to NYC.

Maybe he can be our first liberal Democrat congressman representing Toronto.

61. No Time for Fascists spews:

@57. Cockroach.

62. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Interesting story about an airline helping grieving relatives of the Netwown victims get a few funeral notes there in time. A Flight Attendant picked them up at Sea-Tac, flown to New York, and then driven to Connecticut.

63. Very Severe Conservative spews:

@59. I know, first Baldin won’t move the Canada and now our glorious leader Rush Limbaugh went to Costa Rica since Health Care Reform Passed. I am so grateful they let Rush broadcast his show from there there so we can continue to bask in his Glory on loan from God. I wouldn’t put it past Obama to get the FCC to stop his signal at the border soon.

64. Serial conservative spews:

I bet if liberals stopped listening to Limbaugh, there wouldn’t be enough conservative listeners to keep him afloat.

I don’t even know what station he’s on. If if weren’t for you libbies telling me what comes out of his mouth, I wouldn’t know.

I think the last time I was listening when he was speaking was when he was on Monday Night Football.

Coulter, same thing. Except she wasn’t on MNF (was she?).

65. EvergreenRailfan spews:

The process for replacing Senator Daniel Inouye is interesting. The Governor appoints a replacement, but although Governor Abercrombie is a Democrat, and so was Inouye, Hawaiian law requires the appointee from the party that won that seat in the election, so if Lingle was still the Governor, she would not be appointing a Republican. Although Governor Abercrombie has asked the Hawaiian Democratic Party to send him a short-list of three names, the odds on favorite is Representative Colleen Hanabusa(D-HI).

67. Serial conservative spews:

I’m one of those people who shouldn’t own a gun. Just sayin’.

I believe the Second Amendment has a purpose but that it probably isn’t to permit guns that shoot 30+ rounds in a minute, or less, to be owned by anyone who passes a background check and wants to have one.

That having been said, this is how hard it is going to be to effect significant change:

Joe Manchin: ‘I’m so proud of the NRA’

Read more:

68. Serial conservative spews:

In a blog post on ATR’s website, the group states that a vote for Plan B, which could come up as early as Thursday, will not be a violation of the pledge.

In other news, teenage girls who participate in bukkake can still call themselves virgins.

69. Very Severe Conservative spews:

@65. Great idea. Let’s have a SWAT team in every elementary, jr high and high school on the ready as well as pass out concealed 30 clip hand guns to every teacher. Get the kids used to seeing armed and geared up people in the hallways. It will help with morale and order and get them ready to join the NRA when they are in Jr High. It’s a shame a democrat suggested it however. We should have had a red blooded Republican be the first to propose it. We don’t want to look weak.

70. Serial conservative spews:

@ 68

Maybe I misread the piece. I thought the National Guard was there to protect the students from predatory unionized teachers:

My bad.

71. No Time for Fascists spews:

@69. You are bad. That story is from February 3, 2012. Had to go WAY back to get something blame on a union member, didn’t you. Between then and now, approx 20,000 people died of gun violence.
And at least one the shooters was a Republican so I expect you to now brand all Republican as psycho killers, and excoriate them with every post.

72. Serial conservative spews:

@ 70

20,000. Interesting.

So are data like this:

In Baltimore, about 91% of murder victims this year had criminal records, up from 74% a decade ago, police reported.

Philadelphia also has seen the number of victims with criminal pasts inch up — to 75% this year from 71% in 2005.

In Milwaukee, local leaders created the homicide commission after a spike in violence led to a 39% increase in murders in 2005. The group compiled statistics on victims’ criminal histories for the first time and found that 77% of homicide victims in the past two years had an average of nearly 12 arrests.

In Newark, where three young friends with no apparent links to crime were executed Aug. 4, roughly 85% of victims killed in the first six months of this year had criminal records, on par with the percentage in 2005 but up from 81% last year, police statistics show.

I have to wonder: If we change gun laws, how many fewer of these victims of homicidal violence, themselves with criminal pasts, will there be as a result?

Not many, I suspect.

73. rhp6033 spews:

Last night I talked with a Marine who returned from Afganistan this past year. He’s pretty conservative, a Republican voter, and pro-gun enthusiast.

But when I asked him about whether assault weapons were needed to protect citizens form infrigment of their rights by the government, he thought the whole idea was idiotic. Apparantly, U.S. troops are using an entire generation of new personal weapons in Afganistan, of which he could’t give the details. A 1960′s-era AK47 or AR15 just isn’t any comparison.

And add to that the heavy artillary, napalm, attack helicopters, drones, etc., then the prospect of the seccessionists being able to stand up to the national government is just ridiculous.

In his words, the only reason for a civilian to have a semi-automatic weapon is to commit a crime. They aren’t much good for anything else.

74. Very Severe Conservative spews:

@71. Not many, I suspect.
You are so right. We should not even try to lower gun violence. There is nothing anyone can do. We are helpless to do anything. We are powerless. We should just expect to be afraid, all the time.

75. Serial conservative spews:

@ 73

Afraid? I’ll bet NTfF isn’t afraid. If he only knows one person who’s ever been on welfare he probably doesn’t run in circles in which gun violence is a risk greater than, say, getting hit by a bus.

I’d be afraid if I wondered where I’d get my next rock or if I responded to CL ads that contain the word ‘Tina’. I’d be afraid if I went to ChiSox games and parked on the street.

I’m wondering: We had an assault weapons ban for, what, 10 years, and then it expired and wasn’t renewed. Is gun violence higher now than it was then?

76. Serial conservative spews:

@ 74

It just struck me that NTfF probably doesn’t know more than one person who takes the bus. Probably a bad analogy for me to have used.

77. No Time for Fascists spews:

@75. Gun Violence, not much
Mass Shootings, Yes.

Did the law have an effect on mass shootings?
As this chart from Princeton’s Sam Wang shows, the number of people killed in mass shootings did go down in the years the ban was in effect (save for a surge in 1999, a year that included Columbine) Because mass shootings are relatively rare, it’s difficult to tell whether this was just a random blip or caused by the ban. Still, the number of mass shootings per year has doubled since the ban expired.

78. Very Severe Conservative spews:

I don’t care if mass shootings went down with an assault weapons ban. It’s just a statistical blip like those lying climate change hoaxers. We are helpless, HELPLESS I tell you to stop gun violence. The only answer is more guns and less regulation and tort reform. Serial conservative is just right as usual.

79. Serial conservative spews:

@ 76

From your link:

… assault weapons were never a huge factor in gun violence to begin with.

I”m thinking that efforts that begin, say, a month from now, would be more useful than the knee-jerk efforts we’re seeing now. If Manchin had a few days to think before opening his mouth he wouldn’t be doing the Michael Jackson walk today.

Do we want just to end the deaths of innocents, or should we structure it so we keep more criminals alive, as well?

I haven’t seen a movie in a theater since the Aurora shooting.

Of course, I hadn’t seen a movie in a theater during the 8 months prior to that shooting, either.

80. No Time for Fascists spews:

This about sums it what I think of Republicans and Serial conservative and his arguments.

Why bother with laws at all, then, if criminals are just going to break them?

The deaths of 26 people, 20 of them children, are unfortunate and all, but Republicans will not be doing anything about it. They will be pretending to talk about mental health, without for one instant being willing to improve the American mental health system or its funding. They will be talking about violent video games. They will not even be talking about the specific types of weapons that make it possible for one man to kill dozens of people at a time. And the next time it happens, and the next, and the next, they’ll continue to treat it as a mystery, evil without explanation or aid.

81. Roger Rabbit spews:

I’m glad to see Gov. Snyder’s polls collapse. I’m glad to see the people of Michigan holding this lying bastard accountable. And I hope every other lying bastard of a Republican politician in the country gets the message: If you tell the voters one thing, and then do something else when you get in office, you’ll never be elected to anything ever again.

82. Roger Rabbit spews:

Three Swiss bankers have been charged in the United States for helping their rich American clients hide $420 million from the IRS.

83. Roger Rabbit spews:

The president’s response to Sandy Hook is taking shape: “He said that any effort should include new restrictions on guns, but also improved access to mental health services and better management of violence in popular culture.”

Roger Rabbit Commentary: He’s on the right track. We need action in all three areas. The one thing all of these shooters had in common is they were all mentally ill. Violent entertainment feeds their violent fantasies, and it was too easy for all of them to get guns.

84. Roger Rabbit spews:

Once again, Republicans are grandstanding and playing politics with the “fiscal cliff” instead of doing serious work on a compromise. Boehner’s “Plan B” will pass the House tomorrow, then die in the Senate. With only 12 days left to save unemployment benefits, prevent middle class tax increases, and come up with a reasonable spending proposal, he and the GOP caucus don’t have time to waste on these kindergarten games.

85. MikeBoyScout spews:

@83 Roger,
Maybe Kap’n Kornflake can tell us what spending cuts the “Plan B” bill will contain?

In any event, I don’t think Boner even has the votes to get this passed in his chamber of delusional wingnuts.

86. Roger Rabbit spews:

@74 “Afraid? I’ll bet NTfF isn’t afraid. If he only knows one person who’s ever been on welfare he probably doesn’t run in circles in which gun violence is a risk greater than, say, getting hit by a bus.”

Funny how gun violence correlates with welfare, isn’t it? Except it doesn’t. Adam Lanza came from an upper-class family. Harris and Klebold came from middle-class families. So did Jared Loughner. In fact, if you review all of the recent mass shootings, you won’t find a single mass shooter from a family on welfare. But don’t let facts get in your way …

87. No time for Fascists spews:

@75. I take the bus part of the time. I have co workers who bus it, van pool and take the train. When the weather is good, some us bicycle and motorcycle to work.
I don’t know what broken racist part of your tiny brain equates bus ridership with welfare and gun violence.
Jump, Serial, Jump!

88. Roger Rabbit spews:

Here’s proof Republicans are crazy, and learned nothing from the election:

“Five Republican South Carolina state representatives introduced a bill last week that, if passed, would send people to jail for trying to implement the Affordable Care Act in South Carolina.

“Under the bill, federal officials, employees and contractors implementing Obamacare could face a jail sentence of up to 5 years, and state officials and employees implementing Obamacare could face a jail sentence of up to 2 years.

“Calling Obamacare unconstitutional, the ‘South Carolina Freedom of Health Care Protection Act’ declares that the law ‘is invalid in this State, is not recognized by this State, is specifically rejected by this State, and is null and void and of no effect in this State.’”

Roger Rabbit Commentary: Just for fun let’s send a platoon of infantry to occupy Fort Sumter, park an aircraft carrier over the horizon out of sight, and wait to see what they do next.

89. Roger Rabbit spews:

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the rubber room affectionately referred to as the GOP,

“Former GOP presidential candidate Mike Huckabee … clarified that he didn’t believe an increased religious presence at Sandy Hook could have actually prevented that particular shooting from taking place.”

90. Roger Rabbit spews:

More from the GOP crazy:

“Texas Republican Rep. Louie Gohmert said on ‘Fox News Sunday’ that if school principal Dawn Hochsprung had an assault rifle in her office, she could have killed the shooter.”

(Provided he didn’t kill her first; then he would’ve had TWO assault rifles — RR)

“‘I wish to God she had an M-4 in her office locked up — so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands,’ Gohmert said. ‘But she takes him out, takes his head off, before he can kill those precious kids.’”

(And then the SWAT team takes her head off, because when they enter the school building, all they know is someone in there is shooting with an assault rifle — RR)

Roger Rabbit Commentary: I’m having trouble getting Rep. Gohmert’s time sequence straight. Maybe one of you could help me with this. If she hears shooting in a classroom, how is she going to “take out” the shooter before he hurts the kids? Wouldn’t she have to find the key to the gun cabinet, take out the M-4, load it, and then proceed down the hallway to the classroom where the shooting is, before she can take out the shooter? And won’t all the kids already be shot by then? I’m simply having trouble with the logic of Rep. Gohmert’s reasoning about the timing of this.

91. Roger Rabbit spews:

I think that illustrates how Republican congress critters are stupid people who knee-jerk things and don’t think anything through before shooting off their mouths.

92. Roger Rabbit spews:

New polls show a majority of Americans now support making all guns illegal.

Roger Rabbit Commentary: It’s about time! Too many kids, Democratic politicians, and rabbits have been shot over the years. It’s time for America to give up its gun fetish.

93. Roger Rabbit spews:

Oh, and did I mention the Sandy Hook shooter was into rightwing politics? I think I posted that the other day.

94. Roger Rabbit spews:

Back to the crazy: Michigan GOP legislators have just passed a bill that legalizes carrying concealed handguns in PUBLIC SCHOOLS. That was too much even for Michigan’s lying bastard of a right-to-work governor; he vetoed it.

Roger Rabbit Commentary: Apparently even Republican crazy has limits; but you’ve got to wonder about the voters who elected these legislators.

95. Roger Rabbit spews:

A new poll shows a majority of American’s don’t believe the Republican line that the Obama administration misled the public about Benghazi.

Roger Rabbit Commentary: It’s strange that anyone still believes anything that Republicans say. How many times do they have to get caught lying before people won’t believe them anymore? You humans are a stupid lot. Well, some of you are. There are exceptions.

96. Geoduck spews:

93: You have to wonder if he’d have vetoed it a couple of weeks ago.

97. Michael spews:

White and Lazy is good song by The Replacements. J/K

My feeling on that is nothing is more important than raising kids and if the mom found a way to stay home till they started school so other people were not raising her kids, good on her.

Yep. Those welfare payments weren’t about the mom, they were about the kids and getting the kids ready and able to learn when they hit school age.

98. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Governor Snyder(I will give credit where credit is due), had a personal reason for vetoeing the bill he just vetoed. It was based on a fatal incident when he was in college.

99. No time for Fascists spews:

@96. Republicans. Once the baby is already born, republicans care more about their wallet than the child and what happens to it, It could rot so long it doesn’t ask them for money or touch their stuff.

100. Michael spews:

Yeah, pretty much.

101. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Looks like because of the debate that might be happening on gun control, there is a run on assault weapons. Although, wasn’t there already one anyway because of NRA Propaganda about the election?

102. Roger Rabbit spews:

@96 And behind every single mom on welfare is a deadbeat dad evading child support.

103. rhp6033 spews:

# 87: Nullification????? S. Carolina is trying “Nullification” again?????

Andrew Jackson called their bluff, and they backed down pretty quickly back then. Too bad Buchanan didn’t have the cajones to do that in Dec. 1860, when S. Carolina “seceeded”.

Previously in the South, the Federal Courts sent U.S. Marshals to enforce the court’s desegregation orders, and the guys mouthing off backed down. Kennedy nationalized the Alabama National Guard, and George Wallace Jr. backed down on the schoolhouse steps.

Just out of curiosity – any battle groups currently based in Charleston harbor? Time to exercise a little “federal preemption” doctrine.

104. Serial conservative spews:

The Bill of Rights can be a bitch sometimes. First the right to own a gun, now this:

“The First Amendment affords a publisher – not a reporter – absolute authority to shape a newspaper’s content,” Judge writes.

105. MikeBoyScout spews:

@103 Kap’n Kornflake,

You still have not learned how stoopid your boring comments are?

Not only does the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution not grant the right to “own a gun”, it never mentions “gun”

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

106. Serial conservative spews:

@ 104

Seems someone recently departed once spoke about other things that aren’t specifically mentioned in the Constitution. An individual’s right to privacy or some shit like that.

Didn’t get him very far, as I recall.

You misspelled stupid.

107. MikeBoyScout spews:

@105 Kap’n Kornflake,

Once again, demonstrating you are teh stoopid.

Bork, in addition to being a deranged idiot, thought of himself as a constitutional “originalist” which is a crock of shit I’m not going to go into.

You said “The Bill of Rights can be a bitch sometimes. First the right to own a gun,…”

It is not the Bill of Rights which grants the right of a US citizen to own a gun, it is our courts which interpret the Constitution that way.

The same courts interpret the Constitution to not grant you the right to keep and bear a bazooka, a tank, a nuclear weapon; all of which are arms which can be used by a militia.

108. Serial conservative spews:

@ 106

Don’t you need to parse it further? It’s not the ‘courts’, it’s certain members of the US Supreme Court that are responsible for the interpretation.

You need to make sure you delegitimize something you don’t like to the greatest extent possible. You know, keep in practice for the next election cycle.

109. Roger Rabbit spews:

Boner’s Robin Hood Tax Scheme

The tax bill House GOPers plan to pass today taxes the poor so people making $400k-$600k can keep the Special Tax Privileges (TM; patent pending) the Chimp gave them (and financed by borrowing from the Chinese). And, not missing any tricks, it also gives some $1m+ taxpayers a tax cut. Wanna guess how long this ingenious piece of grandstanding will survive in the Democrat-controlled Senate?

Roger Rabbit Commentary: I get the feeling Boner & Co. harbor a death wish for (a) their party and (b) the economy.

110. Serial conservative spews:

@ 108

Um, that’s one way of looking at it. Another way would be that it gives the Democrat-controlled Senate something they can modify and then be able to tell their supporters that they restored the deductions that House Plan B left off.

If one decides that Plan B is all that will come from the House, it’s a way of giving Dem senators a way to support the bill once they put back what the House left off. Then it goes to conference committee, then a re-vote from one or both congressional bodies, then Obama’s got a decision to make.

Don’t forget that Pelosi wanted a tax hike on the million dollar earners. This gives it to her, and the Senate would get credit for restoring the cuts to the lower earners.

111. Roger Rabbit spews:

Here’s how Plan B would change taxes for various income brackets:

Under $10k …. +$127
$10k – $20k … +$262
$20k – $30k … +$219
$30k – $40k … +$158
$40k – $50k … +$145
$50k – $75k … +$68
$75k – 100k … +$73
100k – 200k … +$120
200k – 500k … -$301
500k – $1m …. -$164
$1million+ …… +72,360

Republicans aren’t against higher taxes. They’re only against higher taxes on themselves.

112. Roger Rabbit spews:

@109 If Plan B is all that comes from the House, we’re going over the cliff until the House decides to play ball with the guy who WON the election. LOSERS don’t get to dictate policy.

113. Roger Rabbit spews:

@109 (continued) Take a good look at @110 and then ask yourself again whether Plan B has a snowball’s chance in hell with the Senate or White House.

114. No Time for Fascists spews:

“The First Amendment affords a publisher – not a reporter – absolute authority to shape a newspaper’s content,” Judge writes.
I agree with this, because it’s a paper. The publisher is bankrolling it, they get to spew what ever yellow journalism he wants to put out.
That would be like saying that SP couldn’t ban lefties that challenged their thought bubbles.
That would be like saying a car company couldn’t fire engineers who were spending their time working on airplane designs instead of the car designs they were hired and directed to do.

The 2nd amendment doesn’t say anything about having the right to have a 30 clip magazine or semi automatic. A strict interpretation means you have a right to a flint lock, the gun of the day.

When you “strict constitutionalists” start defending the Post office that IS in the constitution, before you start yammering about your constitutional rights to an assault rifle, that isn’t, then I’ll listen.

115. Roger Rabbit spews:

@107 “it’s certain members of the Supreme Court”

Now we’re getting down to brass tacks. Who are those members? Which party put them there? Do you solve this problem by voting for that party, so they can appoint more similar members to SCOTUS? This really isn’t that hard to figure out, and the majority of American voters have figured it out. The party that wants to let yahoos carry guns into schools and daycares hasn’t been winning elections recently.

116. Roger Rabbit spews:

The issue with Bork wasn’t just his interpretation of the Constitution. He lacked the character to sit on the Supreme Court. Remember, this is the guy who carried out Nixon’s order to fire the special prosecutor, when no one else would. That made him a co-conspirator in the Watergate coverup, which in my book makes him a criminal. Do you want criminals sitting on the Supreme Court? I don’t.

117. MikeBoyScout spews:

@114 .. the party that nominated and supported Robert Bork to be a member of the SCOTUS and bemoans to this day that this nut-job’s nomination was not consented by the US Senate.

118. MikeBoyScout spews:

Roger, I suspect many of the young whippersnappers don’t remember that a great number of Republicans in 1987 still felt that the impeachment proceedings against Nixon were unjustified ‘because Democrats did the same sort of thing before him’ and were never prosecuted.

The selection of Bork as a SCOTUS nominee by Ed Meese was not only to get a willing supplicant on the court, but to make the case that the Republican crimes of Watergate were nullified.

Bork’s conspiratorial role with the Watergate crimes were not seen as a black mark by Meese and company, they were seen as a badge of honor.

The aftermath of Watergate was still on the minds of many Americans in 1987.

119. No Time for Fascists spews:

I did some cursory research on Bork. America is better because he was not on the court.

Opposition was partly fueled by strong opposition by civil and women’s rights groups concerned with Bork’s opposition to the authority claimed by the federal government to impose standards of voting fairness upon the states (at his confirmation hearings for the position of Solicitor General, he supported the rights of Southern states to impose a poll tax), and his stated desire to roll back civil rights decisions of the Warren and Burger courts.

The Warren Court placed a heavy emphasis on the rights of the individual with groundbreaking decisions like the Miranda Decision and Gideon v. Wainwright, in which the Warren Court ruled that lawyers must be provided for people who are too poor to afford them. In the realm of civil rights, the Warren Court rejected separate but equal clauses, attempted to combat segregation, and supported other critical civil rights cases. The Warren Court also promoted civil liberties which are widely accepted today, like the right to privacy, and it emphasized the separation of Church and State while vigorously defending the Bill of Rights. The nature of due process in the United States also changed radically under the Warren Court, with many critics feeling that the court went too far in its attempt to protect the rights of individuals.

In the realm of civil rights, one of the Warren Court’s landmark decisions was Brown v. Board of Education (1954), which struck down segregated schools as unconstitutional.

Bork was also criticized for being an “advocate of disproportionate powers for the executive branch of Government, almost executive supremacy”, most notably, according to critics, for his role in the Saturday Night Massacre.

To pro-choice rights legal groups, Bork’s originalist views and his belief that the Constitution does not contain a general “right to privacy” were viewed as a clear signal that, should he become a Justice on the Supreme Court, he would vote to reverse the Court’s 1973 decision in Roe v. Wade.

If democracy, limited government, civil rights and an equal chance at prosperity matter to you, Bork was obviously not fit to be on the Supreme court.

120. Roger Rabbit spews:

@118 Bork wasn’t fit to be on the Supreme Court no matter what your ideology is.

121. Tea for everyone spews:

Harry Reid: ‘We Are Not Going to Do Anything’

And We are collecting a massive paycheck every single day

122. Tea for everyone spews:

The ‘Plan B’ option tracks closely to a proposal put forward by Democrats earlier this year.

But now Reid won’t even allow the Senate to vote on Boehner’s proposal.

123. Tea for everyone spews:

“We are willing to compromise,”

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

124. rhp6033 spews:

Financial News:

The New York Stock Exchange is being purchased by a much smaller Atlanta-based futures firm, ICE, for billions less than it would have cost a year earlier.

125. Tea for everyone spews:

Yes imagine that, of course trillions have been lost in homes, interest income, Muni Interest, CD interest, etc etc, and even that can’t be made up by Owebama tossing trillions around each year.

126. Gman spews:

Republicans are douche bags as evidenced by the trolls on this site. Bonehead fails to pass plan b. douche badd!

127. Gman spews:

Republicans are worse than terrorists.

128. Gman spews:

@121 apparently republicans aren’t going to do anything either, the are taking tomorrow off and going home. The senate has already passed a bill to cut taxes for the middle class. Bonehead is out of a job come January.

129. EvergreenRailfan spews:

So Bohner did not have the votes, he pulled the bill. You need only a majority of the votes in the house to pass legislation(assuming enough Democrats crossed over) out of the House, but Boehner seems to think that also means a majority of the majority.

130. Roger Rabbit spews:

@121 Reid did his job. The Senate passed a bill. Boehner can bring it to a House vote whenever he’s ready to do his job.

131. Roger Rabbit spews:

@126 Boehner could pass a bill today, tomorrow, yesterday, next week. All he has to do is offer a bill that 218 Republicans and Democrats are willing to vote for. It doesn’t have to be a Democratic bill, or even one Democrats like; a reasonable compromise would suffice. A compromise that some Republicans and some Democrats would come together and vote for. But “compromise” isn’t in the Republican vocabulary. And given the current makeup of Congress, they can wait until Hell freezes over if they don’t want to compromise, because the backup plan is already in place: If House Republicans refuse to vote for anything that Senate Democrats can support and Obama will sign, then the automatic tax increases and spending cuts will go into effect on Jan. 1, and everyone will live with them whether they like it or not.

132. Michael spews:

Obama, Reid, and the rest of the Democrats have done their job, it’s Boehner, who can’t get his own people to work with him, that’s the problem.

133. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Discovery Channel has now pulled the specials with Ted Nugent.

134. EvergreenRailfan spews:

132)They have done their best, the President even angered his base to show he was sincere, and his reward? The GOP wanted more.

135. Roger Rabbit spews:

Here’s a REALLY good article!

“Fiscal Cliff: Let’s Call Their Bluff”

“The ‘fiscal cliff’ has all the earmarks of a false flag operation, full of sound and fury, intended to extort concessions from opponents. … Yet the media coverage has been ‘panic-inducing, falling somewhere between that given to an approaching hurricane and an alien invasion.’ …

“The goal of the exercise seems to be to dismantle Social Security and Medicare, something a radical group of conservatives has worked for decades to achieve. But with the recent Democratic victories, demands for ‘fiscal responsibility’ may just result in higher taxes for the rich, without gutting the entitlements.

“The problem is that no deal is going to be satisfactory. … More effective solutions are needed. … Here are a few that are receiving media attention:

“1. A financial transactions tax. While children’s shoes and lunchboxes are taxed at nearly 10%, financial sales have so far gotten off scot-free. … Sarah van Gelder of Yes! Magazine observes that the tax would not only help reduce deficits but would hit the highest income earners, and it would cool the speculative fever of Wall Street. … [A] tax of … 0.05% (1/20th of 1%) would … raise $1.5 trillion yearly, enough to replace personal income taxes with money to spare.

“2. The trillion dollar coin trick. If Republicans insist on the letter of the law, Democrats could respond with a law of their own. … Ed Harrison summarized the proposal at Credit Writedowns like this: The Treasury mints a $1 trillion coin, … deposits the coin … at the Fed … buys back bonds.
The retirement of bonds is … not inflationary [because] these operations … create no new net financial assets for the non-government sector. The debt ceiling crisis is averted. … To the objection that it is a legal trick … Paul Krugman responded, ‘These things sound ridiculous — but so is the behavior of Congressional Republicans. So why not fight back using legal tricks?’

“3. Declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional. The 14th Amendment … mandates that Congress shall pay its debts on time and in full …. The debt ceiling was imposed by a statute …. The Constitution trumps it and should rule.

“4. Borrow interest-free from the government’s own central bank. If the government refinanced its entire debt through the Federal Reserve, it could save nearly half a trillion dollars annually in interest, since the Fed rebates its profits to the government. … This is not a wild, untested idea. Borrowing interest-free from its central bank was done by Canada from 1939 to 1974, by France from 1946 to 1973, and by Australia and New Zealand in the first half of the 20th century, to excellent effect and without creating price inflation.

“5. Decommission some portion of the military. When past costs are factored in, nearly half the federal budget goes to the military. The data speaks for itself.

“6. Debt forgiveness. Economists Michael Hudson and Steve Keen maintain that the only way out of debt deflation is debt forgiveness. That could be achieved by the Fed by buying up $2 trillion in student debt and other asset-back securities and either ripping them up or refinancing the debts interest-free or at very low interest. If the banks can borrow at 0.25%, why not the people?

“7. Publicly-owned state and local banks. Municipal governments are facing cliffs of their own. Ann Larson, writing in Dissent Magazine, blames predatory Wall Street lending practices. … Publicly-owned banks slash borrowing costs by returning this interest to the government ….

“The fiscal cliff has been said to be holding Congress hostage to conservative demands, but the real hostages are the debt slaves of our financial system. The demand for ‘fiscal responsibility’ has been used as an excuse to impose radical austerity measures on the people, measures that benefit the 1% while locking the 99% in debt.

“The government did not demand fiscal responsibility of the failed financial sector. Rather, Congress lavished hundreds of billions of dollars on it, and the Fed lavished trillions more. No evident harm from these measures befell the economy, which has fared better than the austerity-strapped EU countries. …

“The self-induced austerity crisis is a diversion from the real crises, including unemployment, the housing crisis, a bloated military, and unrepayable debt. Slashing services, selling off public assets, and raising taxes won’t cure these ills. To maintain a sustainable and productive economy requires a visionary leap into the new. A new economy needs new methods of public financing.”

Roger Rabbit Commentary: I like these ideas, except the trillion-dollar coin is weird. What if someone dropped it, and it rolled through the sewer grate? You’d have to dig up the New York sewer system until you found it. I especially like the student loan idea, because if bankers can be forgiven for committing crimes, why can’t students be forgiven for getting an education?

136. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Do they go by the dateline, or what time it is in the Yucatan Peninsula when it comes to the end of the world under the Mayan Calender?

Although, even Mayans say it is nothing to worry about.

137. Expat(!)Chad spews:

123. Tea for everyone spews:

“We are willing to compromise,”

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha

We’ve learned from you vomitous pathogens.

Now we have the power.

Suck on it, asshole.


138. EvergreenRailfan spews:

As I said, the Mayans don’t believe the doomsday scenarios that people have been pushing about the end of their ancient long-count calender. It’s just the beginning of a new one.

Plus, what I meant about if they go by Yucatan time, is because it is already Friday in the rest of the world.

139. EvergreenRailfan spews:

Love this article’s title:

Mayans mistaken, but hey, it’s not the end of the world.