Open Thread 12-02-05

Okay… I didn’t actually post until 12-03… but I was busy. So deal.


  1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    So, Stefan — your legion of loyal fans wants to know if you win your lawsuit against Dean Logan and KCE, are you going to share the loot with the generous contributors to your “legal action fund” or keep it all for yourself like a selfish prick?

    Well, maybe your loyal fans don’t want to know, hell maybe you don’t even have any fans, but Roger Rabbit wants to know!

    Because, frankly, I suspect you’re a greedy money-grubbing selfish prick! After all, you’re a Republican, so you fit the profile of a greedy money-grubbing selfish prick.

  2. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Before all you trollfucks jump on me for profiling Stefan, I just want to point out that if the FBI can profile people (e.g., Arab-speaking males), why can’t Roger Rabbit profile people too?

    After all, the FBI is run by Bush lackeys, and I don’t see why Republicans should have a monopoly on profiling. Republicans seem to want a monopoly on every fucking thing under the sun!

    Well, if they can profile, Roger Rabbit can too! So fuck you, trolls!!

  3. 5

    dj spews:

    Hi Roger,

    Thanks for all the legal advice. Yes, I was bad, too, in the previous thread and played an armchair lawyer. But, maybe tomorrow I will play armchair physician.

    Anyone need their tonsils out tomorrow?

  4. 6

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey Goldy — or dj — do you guys have any idea why Stefan goes around wearing those red shades, and why everything he sees looks red to him? (See photo on uSP) Is this some sort of compulsive disorder? Like eating Cheerios for every meal? Or watching a complete series of “The Bachelor?”

  5. 7

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Another possible theory is that he has a red lens cap on his camera, and forgot to take off the lens cap.

  6. 8

    Pierre spews:

    I looked at the photo and it looks as if a lot of male to male fondling is going on — sending to lab for total reconstruction to prove possible bordom relief a la sexuelle at ballot hearings.

    And, this person, Le Shark, n’est pas tres butch, mon opinion, mes amis, from l’expert.

  7. 9

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Finally we have some snow in December, been along time, 10-15 years. I remember the Ice Storm of ’96 shutting even Seattle down, and then the December Storm of 1996. Seattle rarely gets snow because of it’s Geography. It did not stick here yesterday, but it did make traffic interesting getting my dad home from dialysis. Because Capitol Hill is 400′ above Sea Level. At EWU, I loved seeing snow. Cheney was not trapped between a huge lake, and Puget Sound.

  8. 10

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    I got my check for being a pollbook judge during the election recently, and since Stefan is also one, I wonder if he noticed he just got a check from Ron Sims, as being the King County Executive, his signature is on the check.

  9. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Maybe Stefan will finally be able to prove waste, fraud, and abuse in King County government. His check is Exhibit A.

  10. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “WASHINGTON (Dec. 3) – More than four years after the Sept. 11 attacks, U.S. intelligence agencies still are failing to share information while Congress battles over security funding, a panel that investigated the terrorist hijackings will conclude in a new report.

    “In interviews Friday, members of the former Sept. 11 commission said the government should receive a dismal grade for its lack of urgency in enacting strong security measures to prevent terror attacks.

    “The 10-member, bipartisan commission disbanded after issuing 41 recommendations to bolster the nation’s security in July 2004. The members have reconstituted themselves, using private funds, as the 9/11 Public Discourse Project and will release a new report Monday assessing the extent their directives have been followed.

    “Overall, the government has performed ‘not very well,’ said former commission chairman Thomas Kean, former Republican governor of New Jersey.”

    (Associated Press story)

  11. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Republicans Opposed Funding for Homeland Security After 9/11

    Nov. 14, 2001: Senate Democrats proposed $15 billion for homeland security, prompting the White House to warn Congress against “permanent spending on other projects that have nothing to do with stimulus and that will only expand the size of government.”

    Dec. 4, 2001: Senate Appropriations Committee voted 29-0 in favor of $13.1 billion for homeland security; the next day, Bush threatened to veto it.

    Dec. 6, 2001: Senate Republicans reduced homeland security funding by $4.6 billion.

    Dec. 19, 2001: Under pressure from the White House, House-Senate conferees eliminated another $200 million of funding for airport security, port security, nuclear facility security, and postal security.

    June 7, 2002: Senate voted 71-22 for $8.3 billion of homeland security funding; the next day, Bush’s advisors recommended a veto.

    July 19, 2002: Under White House pressure, homeland security funding was further reduced by cutting money for food security, cyber security, nuclear security, airport security, port security, drinking water security, coordination of police and fire radios, and lab testing to detect chem-bio weapons.

    Aug. 13, 2002: Bush decided not to spend $2.5 billion that Congress appropriated for homeland security on the grounds of “fiscal responsibility.”

    Jan. 16, 2003: The White House reacted to Democratic efforts to increase homeland security funding by stating, “The Administration strongly opposes amendments to add new extraneous spending.” Later that day, Senate Republicans voted against funds for smallpox vaccine.

    Jan. 23, 2003: Senate Republicans cut security funding for the FBI, FEMA, INS, TSA, Coast Guard, and National Nuclear Security Administration.

    Feb. 3, 2003: Bush submitted a 2004 budget cutting homeland security funding by nearly 2 percent.

    Feb. 14, 2003: Senate Democrats requested money for smallpox vaccine, police and fire radios, and public transportation security but no Republicans supported it.

    March 21-25, 2003: Republicans defeated 7 amendments to bolster homeland security.

    April 2, 2003: Senate Republicans rejected a Democratic amendment to provide $1 billion for port security.

    April 3, 2003: Republicans rejected protection of commercial airliners from shoulder-fired missiles and 4 other homeland security amendments.

    June 2003: House Republicans rejected a Democratic proposal to raise $1 billion for homeland security by reducing tax cuts for 200,000 millionaires by an average of $5,000 each.

  12. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Roger Rabbit has posted 62.5% of the comments in this thread so far. If any of you trolls don’t like it, go fuck your armadillo!

  13. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Another possible explanation is that Stefan pointed an 8-inch howitzer with a huge laser sight at Goldy. Or maybe Ann Coulter aimed the cannon at Goldy while Stefan took the picture. Coulter publicly advocates killing liberals.

  14. 21

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Roger Rabbit posted 70% of the comments on this thread. If you don’t like it, fuck you!

  15. 22

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    If Ann Coulter picks me up by my ears, my powerful hind legs with razor sharp claws will rip her a new belly button, and the floor will be as red as that photo of Goldy on Stefan’s rinky-dink web site.

  16. 23

    righton spews:

    regarding all the stefan posts…

    You guys are pretty odd; you could find about 30 repubs in the news dumber than him….he’s not a bad guy and not stupid.

    Its telling that you all don’t attack Sam Reed (giggle)….oh yeah, you don’t want to reveal your undercover ace ..

  17. 24

    sgmmac spews:

    I don’t hate America, and I don’t know why Norm won’t prosecute any of those felons or double voters, do you know? Maybe he has been corrupted and he sees a kinder gentler kind of justice, you know the kind, where we hold your hand and bring you cookies & milk instead of prosecution?

  18. 27

    JCH spews:

    If Ann Coulter picks me up by my ears, my powerful hind legs with razor sharp claws will rip her a new belly button, and the floor will be as red as that photo of Goldy on Stefan’s rinky-dink web site.

    Comment by Roger Rabbit — 12/3/05 @ 3:14 am
    Er, Roger, Ann dates men, not pussy liberal “girlie boys”. She wouldn’t give you the time of day.

  19. 29

    JCH spews:

    Roger Rabbit, “Tookie” has 8 inches of “Democrat love” waiting for you, too!! [Happy AIDs Day!]

  20. 30

    JCH spews:

    I wonder how many of the union employees at the soon to be closed FORD plants voted for “NO SUVs!!” Kerry?? [Democrats: economic idiots!]

  21. 31

    JCH spews:

    Roger, Get your “guvment” check this week?? Ann Coulter: private sector millionaire. Roger Rabbit: “guvment” hack [See the difference, asshole?]

  22. 32

    JCH spews:

    Voter fraud: Capital offense!! [the Democrats would lose 15% of their votes……20% in black districts]

  23. 33

    JCH spews:

    So another Maryland death row inmate is scheduled to take the lethal injection needle. And, again, anti-death penalty activists have yanked out their ever-handy race card. Wesley Baker killed Jane Tyson in 1991 on the parking lot of Westview Mall in Catonsville. … Baker is black. His victim was white. Death penalty opponents point to that to support their claim that Maryland’s death penalty is racist. [Headless Lucy: Anoter “Tookie”!! That would be two “Tookies”, and one Headless Lucy for a little Democrat “get together”!!!

  24. 34

    JCH spews:

    Reyer Aruero, if that’s his real name, knew he was in trouble. So within hours after police said he cause an Aug. 25 car-motorcycle crash that killed a Kingsbury man, the illegal Mexican immigrant was long gone. That has left Washington County authorities scrambling trying to find ways to locate him so he can face multiple criminal charges in the collision that claimed the life of 51-year-old Daniel “Digger” Irwin. [Reyer was last seen heading south for Mexico for a DNC meeting with Headless Lucy and Roger Rabbit. The topic for the meeting: Making sure illegal felons keep voting Democrat!! Reyer will be the featured speaker!!]

  25. 35

    righton spews:

    what new age whacko invented the new way of calling people…

    people of non-traditional addresses
    people of color
    persons of interest

    all invented by combo of bureaucrat and failing english majors?

  26. 36

    yo spews:

    Yep you have to much time on your hands why dont you go to NV and get laid at the bunny ranch.

  27. 37

    jaybo spews:

    The ACLU is working with the enemies of our country. I can only assume that they do not have the best interests of the american public in mind when they do the following.

    “A US civil rights groups says it is taking the CIA to court to stop the transportation of terror suspects to countries outside US legal authority.

    The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) says the intelligence agency has broken both US and international law.
    It is acting for a man allegedly flown to a secret CIA prison in Afghanistan.

  28. 39

    Old Fart spews:

    Righton @ 22:

    Sam Reed is among a dying breed — a Republican who isn’t a lackey to the nutcase and win-at-any-cost wing of the party. I’ve watched Reed since is was a Thurston County auditor in the 1980s, and he has always enjoyed an unusually high level of bipartisan support because of his commitment to good government over short-term political expediency.

    I’m not surprised you have a problem with Reed.

  29. 40

    sgmmac spews:

    Jaybo, are you sure that this is a bad thing? I don’t think they will succeed in outing the CIA. Every time they do stupid things like this, they expose more of their radical extreme values to those Americans who thought they were a good organization. The same thing is starting to happen to AARP. It amazes me that the normal everyday Americans don’t know who or what the ACLU is really about. It must be their name, and the fact that most Americans want liberty. The ACLU core values want total and complete freedom and liberty from all levels and forms of government. They want anarchy and those with the biggest guns will survive.

    Do people really believe that the CIA hasn’t had agents in countries all around the globe spying, torturing and killing foreign agents since they were first founded? Do they really believe that stuff is only in Hollywood movies? Do they believe NSA agents go overseas and distribute the flowers and candy?

  30. 41

    hardovertoport spews:

    righton@25: I understand the “people of non-traditionsal addresses” though I think it is a clumsy phrase; and I also understand “persons of interest” – that’s a law enforcement, investigative, term; however, I too, have an awkward time with “person of color” because it doesn’t express what the describer means. Is there is a default color,(white, Ivory, off-white, oyster, bone, mahogony, egg-shell, pink, beige, tan, russet, golden, blue …?) and anyone varying from that default color is a “person of color”? Is the “person of color” any person who is the color I’m not? (righton, are you a person of color? or, are you a person of “non-color”?)

    Here’s my other question: When you were a kid, did you have to have the biggest box of Crayons, offering the most colors, or were you satisfied with the small box? Just curious.

  31. 42

    jaybo spews:

    Just trying to expose them, since the MSM will never explain it to the american public.

    It’s far past time for the american public to realize that the news that comes from the MSM is highly selective at best.

  32. 43

    sgmmac spews:

    I agree with you. I thought the ACLU was good when I was in High School, then I found out the truth. I also used to believe in nightime news and I was a very devoted CNN fan for years. During 9/11, I started channel news surfing and I found out how big the slant on the MSM News channels really is. During the Schiavo dehyration murder, I was enlightened to the fact that the media bias to the left is throughout all media sources.

  33. 44

    JCH spews:

    MEXICO CITY – The number of Mexicans leaving their country — almost all for the United States — has reached 400,000 per year and will continue to grow for several more years, the head of Mexico’s National Population Council said on Friday. The increase in migration has coincided with the United States increasing security on its southern border. [New democrat voters on their way!! Now if Kerry could only find enough buses to ship them to Ohio!!!]

  34. 45

    righton spews:


    i don’t get your question; all i recall is loving the box w/ the built in sharpener.

    I do recall beige being called “flesH” which i agree is rude if you are anything other than caucasion

    i just hate the double talk…orwellian, ministry of truth…

  35. 46

    righton spews:

    old fart

    No wonder you liked him; dem in drag.

    If i had more coffee i could come up w a similar list of gop friendly dems (in other places) who drive you lefties nuts

  36. 47

    JCH spews:

    Let’s vote: Democrat Roger Rabbit [8 votes], Democrat Headless Lucy [8 votes], Democrat “Tookie Williams [12 votes……He’s a black felon, so he gets more votes], Everyone else: you may vote, but your votes will be “lost in Seattle”. [“…….It’s who counts the votes”!! Hillary Clinton and Joe Stalin]

  37. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Maybe he has been corrupted and he sees a kinder gentler kind of justice, you know the kind, where we hold your hand and bring you cookies & milk instead of prosecution?”

    Maleng certainly is bringing Sotelo cookies and milk! Next thing you know, he’ll be sucking on her toes.

  38. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Er, Roger, Ann dates men, not pussy liberal “girlie boys”. She wouldn’t give you the time of day”

    Really? She dates? How come she’s over forty and has never been married? Isn’t she actually a guy who had an operation? Have you ever noticed “her” Adam’s apple? Isn’t that a guy’s Adam’s apple?

  39. 50

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Ann Coulter is one of the lowest vermin this country has ever produced. She said about Clinton — a sitting president — that the only question was whether to “impeach or assassinate” (quoted by David Brock, a personal friend of Coulter, in “Blinded by the Right,” Three Rivers Press, 2002, at p. 338).

    Here’s what Brock said about his friend Coulter’s character: “His close friend Coulter betrayed him … I could see that Coulter had sold out her friend.” Brock, op. cit., at p. 218. The never-married Coulter is a slut; Brock pointed out (at p. 198) that her paramours included Bob Guccione Jr., scion of the Penthouse Magazine publishing (i.e., smut peddling) empire.

    Brock commented on his friend Coulter’s professional ethics thusly: “Through my lawyer friend Ann Coulter, I saw a deeper level of partisan scheming and political manipulation in the [Paula] Jones case, which Coulter herself later described as ‘a small, intricately knit right-wing conspiracy.'” Brock, op. cit., at p. 196. Coulter was one of the lawyers operating covertly in the Jones case who were paid with Richard Scaife’s money.

    Here’s what Brock said about his friend Coulter’s intellectual prowess: “Unlike … conservatives who were steeped in conservative ideology and seemed to deeply believe the stuff, Ann … reflected the bumper-sticker conservatism of the younger set. … Ann and I never had a serious conversation about politics, or anything else. Instead, we smoked, drank to excess–Ann seemed to live on nothing but Chardonnay and cigarettes–and vented our anger and cruelty by hurling all manner of epithets at liberals and the disadvantaged among us.” Brock, id., at p. 197. A mere hate peddler whose books, articles, speeches, and TV appearances are full of polemics and devoid of fact or reasoned argument, she is so off the wall that a major conservative magazine terminated its relationship with her to protect its own credibility. She never debates issues; her stock in trade is ad hominen attack. She doesn’t believe her own tripe; she’s a mercenary doing it for the money.

  40. 51

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Roger, Get your ‘guvment’ check this week?? Ann Coulter: private sector millionaire. Roger Rabbit: ‘guvment’ hack [See the difference, asshole?]”

    The difference is I got paid $113.98 for working from 6 AM to 9 PM; she gets paid millions for producing nothing, doing nothing, and being worth nothing.

  41. 53

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “RABBIT Yep you have to much time on your hands why dont you go to NV and get laid at the bunny ranch.”

    Yes! YES!!! OH GOD YESSSSSS!!!! :D :D :D Are you willing to pay my way?

  42. 54

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Any trolls wishing to donate to the “Help Roger Rabbit Visit a Bunny Ranch Fund,” please send your checks to Goldy. He will make sure the money gets RR to the Nevada bunny ranch!

  43. 55

    headless lucy spews:

    re 43: Smegmac: You realized a truth (as in one of many) or the more generalized ,Aha!, truth of the person who has found a prism of truth through which to view all experience and judge it’s value through your subjective optical blinders of, TRUTH?

    I suspect the latter since you misinterpret what people try to tell you all the time and then argue that they meant what YOU said they meant –and it’s obvious to everyone that you are wrong.

    Like the touch-screen voting machines that I informed you were NOT used in King Cty., upon which you went in to an explanation of vote tallying machines that are used to tot up the total of paper ballots in King Cty.

    For your information, Smegmac, touch screen machines ARE used in Snohomish Cty., and there is a lawsuit pending about the “irregularities” experienced with these REPUBLICAN machines. There are instances all over this country and statistical proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that these machines are rigged. The problems are always favoring Republicans and damaging Democrats. Bush’s entire presidency is invalid–and this is according to the honestly elected former president, Jimmy Carter. Either the machines are going to go or the Republicans are.

  44. 56

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    So far, the Fund’s balance is $0.00. It appears the trolls are tapped out if donating to Stefan’s “legal action fund.” Hope you suckers weren’t counting on Stefan sharing the loot with you, because it looks like the selfish prick plans to keep it all for himself. His silence is incriminating.

  45. 57

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog sez:
    “Really? She dates? How come she’s over forty and has never been married? Isn’t she actually a guy who had an operation? Have you ever noticed “her” Adam’s apple? Isn’t that a guy’s Adam’s apple?
    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 12/3/05 @ 11:53 am”
    Now, now Rog…we all know your obsession with Ann Coulter clearly indicates you are “sweet” on her.
    While she is no Helen Thomas (your true love), you love someone with spunk and the courage of her convictions. That’s what seperates you from the real LEFTIST PINHEADED CLOWNS like rujax, clueless and DonnaF*CKINGGeddon!
    You aren’t going over to the “dark side” on us are you???

  46. 58

    sgmmac spews:

    I truly must be stuck on stupid to attempt communication with Lucy. First he says, he wants to spit coke on Diebold machines, then he says he wants a plan for 06 to take out all of the machines so that Republicans can’t steal the election again, so I told him to go on a late night mission at KCRE’s warehouse and take them all out, because those Accu-Vue machines in King County are made by Diebold, now he says King County doesn’t have touchscreens…….. go figure…. should I try to tell him that optical scan ballots and touchscreens are two different voting systems????? Nahhhhhhhhhh

    Comment by sgmmac— 12/2/05 @ 11:39 pm

  47. 59

    sgmmac spews:

    Headless, I was NOT the one to mention touchscreens – you were. I told you about those Accu-Vue optical scan ballot reading machines used by King County. They are made by Diebold too! Got it! And for your information, all of them can be manipulated by anyone who has access to the machines…….. Any machine can be manipulated, even the computer you are reading this on! And yes, I know Snohomish used touchscreens, I wasn’t discussing Snohomish or touchscreens.

  48. 60

    headless lucy spews:

    re 34: Do you suppose the illegal Mexican’s employer might have some info. on him? The problems this country faces are far larger than your tiny mind can comprehend.

    Step aside, your day in the sun is done.

  49. 61

    sgmmac spews:

    Roger, I’m not tapped out yet, but I can’t contribute to a cute fuzzy rabbit’s deliquency……….

  50. 63

    sgmmac spews:

    I’ve never noticed the Adam’s apple, next time I will look. Maybe she just had lots of neck tightening surgery, you know like face lifts, botox, etc

  51. 64

    sgmmac spews:

    What did you get paid as a private or 2nd LT in Vietnam? I got paid a little of 300 a month as a private?

  52. 66

    headless lucy spews:

    re 57: Smegmac, you ignorant aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh…..Republican: That is the whole point. I am against touch screen voting machines that leave no paper trail. Stop talking or thinking about any other machine used in the election process.Remember: Touch screen voting machines. That’s what I’m talking about. Reminding everyone that I am the one who mentioned touch screen voting machines tends to PROVE my point, not damage it.

    Everyone can see that you are just a hysterical woman who can’t reason properly because of the hormonal shift in women your age. Have a clearheaded male friend explain to you what the salient points are in this discussion.

  53. 67

    JCH spews:

    re 34: Do you suppose the illegal Mexican’s employer might have some info. on him? The problems this country faces are far larger than your tiny mind can comprehend.

    Step aside, your day in the sun is done.

    Comment by headless lucy — 12/3/05 @ 12:30 pm
    [Yes, It must be someone else’s fault. Perhaps it’s George Bush’s fault that a drunk illegal alien Democrat kills citizens with an automobile. Lucy, Democrat “Tookie” has an “8 inch piece of love” waiting for your Democrat butt. [Happy AIDs Day!!]

  54. 68

    JCH spews:

    Rabbit: “guvment” employee hack. Ann Coulter: private sector multi-millionaire Rabbit: Democrat and bitter. Ann: Republican and good looking. Democrat Rabbit: Democrat Helen Thomas and Cleaning Lady Secretary of State Mattie Albright in a threesome. Democrat Headless Lucy: waiting for Democrat “Tookie’s” 8 inches of love!!!

  55. 69

    JCH spews:

    If “Tookie” Williams is executed next week in Kalifonia, will he still vote Democrat in the 2008 election??? Democrats: up to their necks in voter fraud!!

  56. 70

    sgmmac spews:

    Lucy, Apache, Dr E,
    There is someone out there who can help you. If you need assistance, I’m sure Washington State can pay – they did just expand their mental health coverage.

    As for your attacks on my sex and my age……. get a life! I’ve put up with sexual harassment from people far better at it than you, buddy!

  57. 71

    Dr Quest spews:

    Sgmmac: I think what HL is trying to get at is that she doesn’t trust the veracity (truthfulness, for the layperson) of Diebold touch-screen voting machines. How about you? Do you trust Diebold touch screen voting machines?

  58. 72

    hardovertoport spews:

    righton@44: I was just curious. I had completely forgotten about “flesh”. I paint, and I just respond differently to the word “color”, I guess. The phrase “people of color” sounds soooo wierd to me.

  59. 73

    Dr Quest spews:

    Is it racist to “flesh out” an argument? Would it be less offensive to give the argument some “fat” or “skin of a non-determinate color”? Would it be racist to point out a fleshy woman of color? Which is worse , the fleshiness or the color of it? Or, is it all good? I tend to favor the latter.

  60. 74

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Cynical — No, I’m not sweet on Coulter. She’s a creepy hatemonger who publicly advocated assassinating President Clinton and murdering liberals. Why would I like her? She’s a Nazi! But I defend her right to free speech and the capitalist private enterprise system that showers millions on sick twisted hate peddlers like her — as long as it’s just talk, and nothing more.

    If she were to act on her words, that would be an entirely different matter. If she kicks my door in and attempts to arrest me in order to cart me off to one of her death camps for being a liberal, I won’t hesitate to exercise my self-defense rights under the law, including use of deadly force to stop an imminent threat of death or grave bodily harm to my bunnyhood.

    Of course, she’ll never do that! Like all right-wing blowhards, she’s mere hot air, and a coward in real life. According to Time magazine, she holes up in her New York apartment, afraid to go out in public, and lives in fear of assassination. Serves her right. She deserves to live in a 400-square-foot studio for the rest of her life, with Randi Rhodes as her roommate.

  61. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    The interesting thing about touch-screen voting machines is that die-hard Republicans don’t trust them, either. They think Democrats will manipulate them to steal elections! That tells you something, doesn’t it? It tells me Republicans think touch-screen voting machines can be hacked.

    I went to one of those public meetings Sam Reed held last spring. The crowd of about 200 included Republicans and Democrats, and the only thing they agreed on is that NOBODY trusts these machines! Democrats got up and demanded our state NOT use electronic voting machines. Then Republicans got up and demanded our state NOT use electronic voting machines.

  62. 76

    Dr Quest spews:

    Sgmmac: It’s kind of hard to find a defense of those machines that makes any sense. Chuck Hegel’s astounding 83% victory over his Dem. opponent in a state that hadn’t elected a Repub. to that office in 24 years seems too astounding for words, doesn’t it?

    Exit polls are used worldwide to verify the honesty of elections. But in the past 6 years, suddenly they don’t work in the U.S. As the Church Lady might say, “How Conveeeeenient!” If you’re comfortable disregarding your duty as a citizen and choosing to believe, over all evidence to the contrary, that many Repub. incumbents and newcomers have honest electoral victories, then welcome my friend to the show that never ends!

    Last point: How could Max Cleland, the wildly popular Senator from GA who lost 3 limns in Vietnam, lose to a known draft dodger? You need to put on your thinking cap and start using that little noodle of yours!

  63. 77

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    34, 58

    Gee, who are the employers of undocumented aliens? How many Democrats have domestic servants?

  64. 78

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    What’s wrong with delinquency? All we’re talking about here is enabling a cute fluffy 9 1/4-lb. bunny do what Nature designed him for. What do you think Ma Nature put me here for, anyway? To write political blogs? No, my #1 function is to make MORE BUNNIES!!! My secondary function is to recycle vegetables into compost so Stefan’s lawn will grow back a lush green color next spring, while he sits inside hatching schemes to subvert our democracy and install a fascist dictatorship in King County. We already have enough fascist government in King County! The Parks Department is run by fascists! They’re gonna trap and relocate all my children!

  65. 81

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @61 (more)

    Or, just google “Ann Coulter’s adam’s apple,” you’ll get a ton of hits.

  66. 82

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    $90 a month as a buck private; $250 a month as an E-4 including overseas allowance and combat pay. I enlisted for OCS, but frankly I wasn’t cut out to shovel Army bullshit; I’m too much of a free spirit, and was better suited to becoming a lawyer.

  67. 83

    Dr Quest spews:

    re 73: We have a wild orikana chicken/rooster in Issaquah. It hangs out with a pair of wild ducks. No one harms or bothers them. There is plenty of room here for a fucking(biologically speaking) rabbit and his offspring.

  68. 85

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    re 78

    Why can’t bunnies live in Green Lake Park? We’re peaceful. Why should humans, some of whom are NOT peaceful, have Green Lake Park all to themselves? Humans want a monopoly on every fucking thing. There’s absolutely no reason why bunnies and humans can’t coexist in Green Lake Park. If the Parks Department fascists trap and relocate my 7,108 children to Issaquah (or wherever), I’ll have to dig holes in the grass and litter the park with mounds of rabbit feces all by myself, and that’s a lot of work!

  69. 86

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    OK, send cash or donate by credit card, it’s all the same to me! Contributing to my delinquency costs the same no matter how you pay for it.

  70. 87

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Sgmmac: It’s kind of hard to find a defense of those machines that makes any sense. Chuck Hegel’s astounding 83% victory over his Dem. opponent in a state that hadn’t elected a Repub. to that office in 24 years seems too astounding for words, doesn’t it?”

    As I recall, Hagel owned the company that made the voting machines that declared him the winner.

  71. 88

    Harry Poon spews:

    What’s all this hub-bub about Diebold touch-screen voting machines? I thought everyone knew they were rigged and GWB was not really elected.

  72. 89

    JCH spews:

    Those voting machines bought, serviced, stored, and maintained by Democrats in Democrat polling districts must be racist!!!! RR, you are an idiot!!

  73. 90

    JCH spews:

    Last point: How could Max Cleland, the wildly popular Senator from GA who lost 3 limns in Vietnam, lose to a known draft dodger? You need to put on your thinking cap and start using that little noodle of yours!

    Comment by Dr Quest — 12/3/05 @ 3:01 pm [ER, Dr. Quest, Didn’t a draft dodger Clinton lose to a WWII war hero named Dole? I must have missed your post on ‘your missing noodle”. Democrats: hypocrites and idiots. Ann Coulter was right!!!

  74. 91

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Two right-wing groups calling themselves “Liberty Counsel” and “Alliance Defense Fund,” with evangelicals like the Rev.-in-Name-Only Jerry Falwell as allies, are organizing a nationwide boycotts of retailers and threatening to sue public officials and school administrators in an effort to force them to use the phrase “Merry Christmas” instead of “Happy Holidays.”

    American Family Association President Tim Wildmon wants stores to prominantly display “Merry Christmas” signs “if they expect Christians to come in and buy products.” He doesn’t care if it offends non-Christians. “If someone is upset by that, well, they should know that they are living in a predominantly Christian nation.”

  75. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hmmm, I wonder where MTR and the other free enterprisers are on this? And the private property advocates? Does Target Stores have a right to say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” on their own property? Apparently not, according to the right-wingers boycotting Target, or the right-wing lawyers threatening to sue them.

  76. 93

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Speaking of Christianity, whatever happened to:

    1. Love thy brothe as thyself?
    2. Blessed are the meek?
    3. Blessed are the peace makers?
    4. The Golden Rule?
    5. It’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, etc.?

    It occurs to me that those who preach Christianity the loudest, practice it the least. Why is that?

  77. 94

    Harry Poon spews:

    It shows how the religeous right can hone-in on a totally nonsensical non-issue and force everyone to talk and think about this when people really need to be educated on what the Bretton-Woods Organizations are up to. P.T. Barnum was NOT right. And anyone who thinks he was does not remember about the Chatauqua movement in the U.S. People will respond to good information when they can get good information. But it seems to be the media’s mission that they do NOT get that information.

    Can you sue the religeous right for being mendacious assholes who only want to line their own pockets with innocent boobs hard earned money?

  78. 95

    jaybo spews:

    Roger Rabbit,

    If you are a Christian then it is a sign of love to your neighbors to not drive God from the public.

    Psalm 33:12 (Amplified Bible)

    Blessed (happy, fortunate, to be envied) is the nation whose God is the Lord, the people He has chosen as His heritage.

  79. 96

    jaybo spews:

    Another reason why “the salt of the earth” cannot loose its saltiness and why Christians are a blessing to any nation.

    2 Chronicles 7:14 (Amplified Bible)

    If My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves, pray, seek, crave, and require of necessity My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven, forgive their sin, and heal their land.

  80. 97

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Wabbit @ 84 – We agree. Any corporation has the right to be stoopid if they so choose. If they want to take part in the anti-Christmas movement with the rest of the Murka haters, they are certainly welcome to do so. Consumer with many choices in a competitive free market system also have the choice to not patronize them. The invisible hand will properly handle the whole issue.

  81. 98

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    I don’t want to drive anyone’s God or god(s) from their PRIVATE life or PRIVATE property, but nor do I want our government (a) forbidding religion, (b) dictating religion, or (c) choosing a religion for any of of our citizens.

    What people like you don’t understand is that liberals (and groups like the ACLU) are trying to protect freedom of religion — and freedom from state-sponsored religion — for everyone, including anti-Constitutionalists like you.

  82. 99

    Harry Poon spews:

    I’m not going to be bound by a book whose contents were chosen by committee, that’s been reinterpreted many times to fit the political persuasion of the times and the people who are using the book for their own political and financial advantage. I believe these are the people Jesus referred to as Pharisees and hypocrites and DAMNED them to eternal Hell!

    If you like what I just wrote then be sure and dig deep, reaaaaaaaaaaaaaal deep into your wallet and send me money– because although the blessing of a sane and balanced mind is there for the taking, I cannot continue my ministry of spreading common-sense unto the people without hard, cold, untaxable cash-money….

  83. 100

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    I’ve had some experience with evangelicals, and with so-called Christian businessmen. What this people all have in common is:

    1. They believe their sins have been forgiven, and
    2. They take an awful lot of license from the forgiveness.

  84. 101

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Does this mean if I hang a “Happy Holidays” sign over the door of my burrow, Ann Coulter won’t try to enter and arrest me and cart me off to one of her death camps? Or do I still need to wave a cross at her, and drive a wooden stake through her heart?

  85. 102

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hmmm … I hadn’t thought of that … using a “Happy Holidays” sign to keep the Christo-fascists away. MTR is good for something after all! Thanks Mark!! :D :D :D

  86. 104

    marks spews:

    Dr Quest @81

    Chuck Hegel’s astounding 83% victory over his Dem. opponent in a state that hadn’t elected a Repub. to that office in 24 years seems too astounding for words, doesn’t it?

    Not if you look at who was up against him. Remember the old adage “all politics is local” and take into account that he ran against a weak candidate in 2002. Further, Nebraska voting trends (and a lot of other states as well) have undergone quite a change over the last decade. Lastly, Hagel is very much an independent-minded R, somewhat similar to McCain. I wish my state had a Senator who is willing to buck the party line.

    Exit polls are used worldwide to verify the honesty of elections. But in the past 6 years, suddenly they don’t work in the U.S.

    On this I somewhat agree. How is it that we went decades using exit polls reliably, and yet the last two national cycles were so skewed? I think the problem is easy to identify. With all the shifting of voter trends over the past decade, the exit pollsters failed to take important demographic information into account. While exit polls have been reliable for decades, if the pollsters fail to model correctly, they can produce massive errors due to erroneous demographic assumptions.

    Last point: How could Max Cleland, the wildly popular Senator from GA who lost 3 limns in Vietnam, lose to a known draft dodger?

    Wildly popular? Perhaps in certain circles, but again, follow the Hagel model: all politics is local. The campaign between Cleland and Chambliss centered on terrorism and several votes by Cleland that were portrayed as radically leftist. Georgia voters are not exactly comparable to New England voters, and the message stuck.

    A final thought on both Senators you bring up. The election you spoke of was in 2002. For an electorate that still had the horrors of 9/11 in mind, and with R’s able to effectively portray themselves as better stewards of our security, it is really not much of a surprise that Hagel, who was awarded two Purple Hearts in Vietnam, won in a landslide and Chambliss unseated a Silver Star recipient who left three limbs in Vietnam because he became associated with a Democratic Party increasingly seen as having little credibility on National Security.

    But you are welcome to believe otherwise. Vast right-wing conspiracies are good fiction writing, so write away…

  87. 105

    Roger Rabbit spews:


  88. 106

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I wonder if saying “Happy Holidays” will keep the Parks Department fascists out of Green Lake Park, so they don’t trap my children and sell them into bunny slavery.

  89. 108

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Seattle — A local entrepreneur, Roger Rabbit, announced today that his company, Bunny Enterprises, will soon begin selling a line of products Mr. Rabbit calls “the first effect troll repellant ever developed” in area stores.

    The products consist of signs, bumper stickers, and lapel buttons that say, “Happy Holidays.”

    “For the first time,” Mr. Rabbit’s announcement says, “consumers have an effective way to repel right-wing trolls, especially the persistent varieties. Our laboratory testing indicates right-wing trolls will not enter a store or other commercial established displaying a ‘Happy Holidays’ sign.”

    Mr. Rabbit believes his “Happy Holidays” bumper stickers will deter right-wing car thieves from stealing cars displaying the stickers. “This bumper sticker is anathema to them,” Mr. Rabbit says. “They don’t want anything to do with a ‘Happy Holidays’ car.”

    In addition, field trials indicate that wearing a “Happy Holidays” lapel button effectively repels right-wing muggers. “They can’t get away from ‘Happy Holidays” fast enough,” Mr. Rabbit said. “It’s like having your own personal cop.”

    Mr. Rabbit declined to say what the secret ingredient of “Happy Holidays” is.

  90. 109

    Harry Poon spews:

    marks: The only thing you’ve stated, after whittling away the unsubstantiated dross, is that,”…all politics is local.” This hardly explains or controverts in any way whatsoever the very real points that I brought up. Vague shiftings of populations and tut-tuts about changing attitudes is not acceptable argument. Name any other Senatorial contest where a non-incumbent no less won a HUGE majority(83%} outside of Red China, Soviet Russia, or Nebraska.

  91. 110

    Harry Poon spews:

    marks: …and don’t pull the numbers out of your netherworld or take real numbers and twist them to mean what you want them to because I will refute every bogus claim you make. It’s time for name-calling from you again, isn’t it. The calm, professorial air you’ve suddenly adopted isn’t going to fly…

  92. 111

    marks spews:

    Harry Poon @109

    This hardly explains or controverts in any way whatsoever the very real points that I brought up.

    First, I was addressing the points made by Dr Quest, unless you and he are the same person. At any rate, his points were a bunch of wild leaps of logic, so I filled in some very reasonable truths. If that is unsatisfactory to you, too bad.

    Name any other Senatorial contest where a non-incumbent no less won a HUGE majority(83%}

    You need to research things. Hagel was the Incumbent in 2002 when he won with 83%. He won his seat first in 1996.

    How much other crap do you spout without having facts? Are you also Headless Lucy?

  93. 112

    dj spews:

    Harry Poon @ 110

    “marks: …and don’t pull the numbers out of your netherworld or take real numbers and twist them to mean what you want them to because I will refute every bogus claim you make. It’s time for name-calling from you again, isn’t it. The calm, professorial air you’ve suddenly adopted isn’t going to fly… “

    Are you sure you are not confusing marks with another Mark?

    In my opinion marks is the single most intelligent and reasonable right-leaning poster on the HA comment threads. I don’t know enough about either of the races mentioned, so I would be interested in seeing a rebuttal of his points which, one the face of it, seem quite reasonable.

    If you are not up to it, maybe Dr. Quest will do so.

  94. 113

    bill spews:

    Well, if you guys really want to insist on using the name of the holiday rather that saying simply ‘happy holidays’, then Happy Yule. May the gods smile on you this year.

    I find it bizarre beyond belief that a religion that has over 60% of americans as members is running around claiming to be a minority and victims, but I guess the best way for them to attack other religions is to claim that anyone who wants to practice their own religion in peace hates them.

  95. 114

    dj spews:

    Speaking of people named Mark….

    Mark the Redneck…have you discharged your gambling debt yet? I believe you owe Maria Cantwell $100.

    If you haven’t done so, why are you posting?

    Come on, Mark the Redneck, pay up. Cantwell’s site works just fine.

  96. 116

    sgmmac spews:

    I am boycotting Target too. They kicked out the Salvation Army last year, so I kicked them. I have several thousand to spend every Christmas and I will spend it where I want. It won’t include Target because they don’t have any bell ringers there.

  97. 117

    Puddybud spews:

    Sgmmac@59: You finally realized that Loosy is an idiot to the third degree. He is a racist idiot, a stupid idiot, an a school teaching idiot. There is nothing upstairs. You earnestly look into loosy’s eyes and you’ll see neon lights flashing “Vacancy”!

  98. 118

    Puddybud spews:

    Dr._Quest@76: Have you been to Georgia? Does the name “Cynthia McKinney” ring a bell. 1.) There was a big voter backlash to her idiotic politics. 2.) Max Cleland was tied to Daschle political machine in WA. DC, while trying to say he was a conservative democrat. He was outed by his voting record.

  99. 119

    Puddybud spews:

    JCH@89: I have been saying this for the last few months. All of the problems in Ohio cities are controlled by donkocrats; from dog catcher to mayor and city councils. They provide the machines, they provide the poll workers and they provide the poll watchers. Loosy is an idiot. Dr Quest I expected a higher intelligence level from you, not loosy IQ commentary.

  100. 120

    Harry Poon spews:

    re 112: What makes you think your opinion on people is the soup d’ jour. If I remember correctly, you’re the guy who works at a university but has no idea how bulk buying really works and when your institution is being ripped off by suppliers who are overcharging? If your place and marks place is in the middle, then stay there and do what you both can. But never again will the Democratic party be populated only by centrists forcing the center to the right. Capiche?

  101. 121

    Puddybud spews:

    RR@91: Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

  102. 122

    sgmmac spews:

    I like Happy Holidays, because it’s inclusive. However, there is no such thing as a Holiday Tree. It’s a Christmas Tree, so call it what it is and cut the crap!

  103. 123

    Puddybud spews:

    RR@98: ACLU is protecting freedom of Religion? I call BULLSHIT to that comment. I’ll add that to your ever growning list of BULLSHIT & LIES!

  104. 124

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Hmmm, I wonder where MTR and the other free enterprisers are on this? And the private property advocates? Does Target Stores have a right to say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas” on their own property? Apparently not, according to the right-wingers boycotting Target, or the right-wing lawyers threatening to sue them. -Comment by Roger Rabbit— 12/3/05 @ 4:07 pm

    I thought you claimed to be a lawyer?

    Target has every RIGHT to say “Happy Holidays” or “Go sit on a Brick” or “Kill all the Damned Rabbits!”…and private citizens have the RIGHT to choose not to shop there.

  105. 125

    Puddybud spews:

    DJ: Harry Poon is a bad example of lefties.

    Harry Poon: Without looking in the Google Crystal Ball, who was the chair of the 2002 democratic Senate campaign committee? You can’t answer that without looking it up!!! I bet most lefties can’t answer that without looking it up. Once you figure who was the 2002 democratic Senate campaign committee chair, you’ll comprehend why Cleland lost.

  106. 126

    Puddybud spews:

    If a lefty gets #125 right, will you honestly say you knew the answer without looking it up?

  107. 127

    bill spews:

    No wait sgmmac, if you are insisting that correct names be used here, it is a Yule tree. It it an evergreen for a reason and predates christianity by several millenia. As you say, call it what it is and cut the crap.

  108. 128

    marks spews:

    harry Poon @120

    But never again will the Democratic party be populated only by centrists forcing the center to the right.

    Oh, I never worry about such a thing happening to your party.

    btw – If you think dj lives in the middle then you have as much trouble with political differentiation as you do with facts.

    I enjoy a good debate with a person who has enough wits to intersperse humor with fact and opinion. You fail to reach that caliber, though you are funny in other ways.

  109. 129

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    And by the way… for my own strike against secularism I’ve been on the hunt for an outdoor Nativity scene for my lawn…

    I’ve checked Target, Sears, Lowes, Walmart, Samc Club, Costco, Home Depot and JCP Catalog.

    The only stores selling it are Walmart (it’s dinky, but they have one) and McLendon. I bought the BIG one at McLendon.

    So Merry CHRISTmas fringies and God Bless you.

  110. 130

    Puddybud spews:

    JackASS loosy: PacMan and I posted our independent IP Addresses on this blog to GBS weeks ago. Were you fucking some freshman wrestler in the ass during this time? Loosy, head fudge packer of ASSes! Are you traveling down the Hershey Highway right now loosy? Pay attention and STFU. If you understood traceroute you could figure it out. Loosy, IP Address ignorant idiot.

  111. 131

    sgmmac spews:

    I wasn’t trying to cause chaos over the diebold machines, but was merely trying to respond to the rants of Lucy at the machines. She/he was plotting and planning to blow them up in 06. Your post does explain why our newspaper down here posted a link to a blog devoted to how the machines can be corrupted, recently because we switched this last election to the optical scan machines made by diebold.

    I would hope that the Secretary of State’s office did research on all of the machines by Diebold, before they let counties convert to them. I would also hope that tests are being performed on them regularly. Our auditors office did tests the day before the election to insure that the results are accurate.

  112. 132

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Hey Puddy!!!
    Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

  113. 133

    sgmmac spews:

    In what country was it called a yule tree? It certainly wasn’t in America! They have been called Christmas trees since the tradition was brought here. I have never in my entire life seen an ad in the newspaper for Yule Trees. Yule logs, yes! Yule trees, NO.

    They are called Tannenbaums in the country where they originated.

  114. 134

    dj spews:

    Harry Poon @ 120

    “What makes you think your opinion on people is the soup d’ jour.”

    Ummm…nothing. That is not part of my belief system.

    “If I remember correctly, you’re the guy who works at a university but has no idea how bulk buying really works and when your institution is being ripped off by suppliers who are overcharging?”

    Your recollection is faulty.

    “If your place and marks place is in the middle, then stay there and do what you both can.”

    Really, now? Am I a centrist? (I certainly am on particular issues, but do you think that characterizes me overall?)

    “But never again will the Democratic party be populated only by centrists forcing the center to the right. Capiche?”

    Whatever you say. Perhaps it is people like you who keep me from being a Democrat.

    In any case, my comment above was not a assault on your political position. I just found it surprising that you were treating marks as if he was a wacked-out wingnut or something. His points did not seem unreasonable—which isn’t to claim he is correct, but they seemed worth debating on the merits rather than through name-calling.

  115. 135

    Puddybud spews:

    I say Happy Kwanzaa, Happy Chanukah, Merry Christmas, etc. What is politically incorrect about those statements? Happy Ramadan?

  116. 137

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Looosy the wrestler diddler coach….

    Comment by headless lucy— 12/3/05 @ 10:03 am
    Comment by headless lucy— 12/3/05 @ 10:17 am
    Comment by headless lucy— 12/3/05 @ 11:40 am
    Comment by headless lucy— 12/3/05 @ 12:30 pm
    Comment by headless lucy— 12/3/05 @ 12:48 pm

    We left home at 5:30 this morning coach.
    We left school at 6:15 this morning coach.
    We had trny weigh-in at 7:00 this morning coach.
    We wrestled all day coach.
    We didn’t get home till amost 5:00 this afternoon coach.

    Somehow I think coach is really just the janitor that disinfects the mats and cleans up the debris from ‘blood time’, aren’t ya coach?

  117. 138

    bill spews:

    Look up yule. My objection is not others celebrating whatever winter holiday their religion celebrates, my objection here is someone telling me that what I am really celebrating is christmas. Especially when you look at the origin of christmas and find out why it is when it is.

  118. 139

    PacMan spews:

    Loosy: You are still ignorant. My IP is not from ‘roun here. If you can’t post the truth, maybe you should head to Daily Kos. They like your kind there; lying, racist Robert 3K Byrd supporters who can’t argue their way out of a wet spaghetti curtain. Loosy, are you the out of round meatball of Animal Hind Parts?

    ProudASS, Post #137 was funny.

    Marks, you are welcome. Yes, my politics are a little right of yours, but my issues are borne out of my life experiences, not someone telling how to think. I see many Animal Hind Parts posters are also some of the many visitors of Daily Kos whom post their racist spittle.

    ChristmasGhost: Notice the “celebrities” who want to spare Tookie Williams life? How ghastly is that? His victims have been dead 25 years. Their voices cry from the grave. Has windie ever answered you?

  119. 140

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Kwannzaa is a made up holiday…it was founded in 1966 by Ron Karenga, aka, Ron Everett.

  120. 141

    sgmmac spews:

    See, we are saying the same thing. This is from your source: Wikipedia says: “Tannenbaum means fir tree in German, and is the word used to describe Christmas trees in that language.” If I knew how to link to a word like you, I would do that!
    …and I really don’t remember the last time I was in church. Traditions are a very thing, and they do evolve. I also spent 9 years stationed in Germany and they do Christmas and it is really wonderful over there! Last year, I missed it so bad, I made some Gluh wine!

  121. 142

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    LOL PacMan – the funny part… is it’s true!

    PS.. I’m waiting to be called racist by all the fringies. The ‘thing’ they don’t get is that sying the truth isn’t racist.

  122. 144

    PacMan spews:

    Sorry for having to post again, but I didn’t want to be in the filter wasteland for a while until Goldy cleared the post. Goldy, please ban one individual Loosy.

    Loosy: You goad me to post? Not like that at all little boy! I can call you boy right? Well little boy it’s like this. You would have been beat down long ago where I grew up. I remember this little black boy who had the biggest mouth. No it ain’t me because Marks can attest to my height! He spoke out of turn and was beat down. DJ, one of the brainiest here just slapped you back to the 1960s for your racist comments. I suggest you cease and desist from posting here. Your Diebold comments are so stupid. Name me one Republican mayor of the Ohio cities. While others were in the store shopping for brains, you window shopped.

    Monday morning the Seattle School District may receive an email from me regarding loosy. Hey, I may use my real email address for this one. What do you think Marks?

  123. 146

    PacMan spews:

    Oh goodness Puddy: That is one ugly loosy … dog! That is funny! The dog is dead, but brainless loosy still blogs on!

  124. 149

    Donnageddon spews:

    Hey Hey

    It’s PacMan the liar man!

    I am sure you would be more than willing to kill ol’ Tookie, with Jesus by your side, pulling the switch!

    He’s PacMan the liar Man
    He’ PacMan the Liar Man
    He likes to kill people
    Death is his church steeple
    He’s PacMan the liar Man!

    Keep the lack of faith, PacMan!

  125. 150

    Harry Poon spews:

    dj- Sweet reason is not the main attribute of the commenter I know of as , marks. Maybe there is more than one marks. But I don’t need you hounding me, dj. Look at the trolls you’ve emboldened and the utter nonsense of their remarks. You can occupy the center if you wish, but the electorate has very firmly let both parties know , the center is a place both sides go to to compromise. If you occupy the center at all times, the electorate has rightly let us all know that they think you stand for nothing– and they are correct in that assumption.

    FDR was no centrist.

  126. 151

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    So, donniegetsNone – how was that date with your left hand last night, babe?

  127. 152

    marks spews:


    While I have some reservations about banning anyone, I think you are spot-on regarding his shopping.

    Your real address? Seattle School Distrikt? Man, I would think about that. Is he not a model the Distrikt holds up to others there? They may give him an award at a taxpayer-funded banquet teachers retreat.

  128. 153

    Harry Poon spews:

    re 131: As my dear departed Dad used to say: You can put wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.

  129. 154

    Donnageddon spews:

    ProudaSS, I told my date about you, and the gamg of TROLLs. She asked why you all would bother spreading your filth on a liberal blog?

    I told her that TROLLS do as TROLLs are.

    She laughed, her cute liberal laugh.

    Then she melted like chocolate in a double boiler!

    How was your night, ProudAss?


  130. 155

    Puddybud spews:

    ProudASS: DonnieGetsNone visited one of those adult stores and bought his blowup doll. It melted from the heavy use.

  131. 156

    tomas spews:

    What will happen first?

    – A woman is elected president of US

    – An African-American is elected president of the US

    – A practicing Jew is elected president of the US

    – A practicing Muslim is elected president of the US*

    *If you select this one you are obviously not taking this survey seriously or you are on drugs.

  132. 157

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    ProudASS: DonnieGetsNone visited one of those adult stores and bought his blowup doll. It melted from the heavy use.
    -Comment by Puddybud— 12/3/05 @ 7:31 pm

    Like chocolate in a double boiler?

  133. 158

    Donnageddon spews:

    That’s a funny one, PuddyBud. I imagine you spent the night on the computer, your wife smoking cigarettes in bed, plotting your murder.

    To each his own, PuddyBud!

  134. 159

    PacMan spews:

    Don-Don, you claim to be a Bible scholar posting against Puddy all the time here with your Bible act. What did God say in the Bible about killers like Tookie? Tookie didn’t make it to a sanctuary city!

    He off’d four people in cold blood!

  135. 161

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    And now we have poor donniegetsNone talking to his date…er, left hand.

    Donnie… get help.

  136. 162

    Puddybud spews:

    ProudASS: He left his “chocolate” in both orifices. He melted it.

    StuckASS – AKA donnageddon, glad you liked it. So you know, the wife does not smoke except after good sex. No she does not plot my murder, but she does think you are a dull knife too.

  137. 163

    Donnageddon spews:

    And LiarMan,, if you think for a second, Jesus would support capital punishment… well, then you worship Satan.

  138. 164

    Donnageddon spews:

    PuddyBud “the wife does not smoke except after good sex.”

    good for her. I geuss she only smokes after the plumber pays a visit!

  139. 166

    PacMan spews:

    Funny Don-Don. PacMan the liar man? Did someone email that to you about yourself? Are you plagiarizing like Puddy found about loosy in the Stefan thread?

    You wouldn’t “know” a woman if she bumped into you. Go back to your yayo. It does wonders for your mind.

  140. 167

    PacMan spews:

    Don-Don the Bible Scholar: You better go back and read your Bible. Or are you an Anton LaVey follower?

  141. 168

    Donnageddon spews:

    Oh My PacMan the LiarMan “Did someone email that to you about yourself?”

    You are such a quick wit! And completely not a Christian.

  142. 169

    Donnageddon spews:

    “You better go back and read your Bible. ”

    Are you having trouble finding “turn the other cheek”?

    I think you may be the one needing a refresher course in Christianity.

  143. 170

    Puddybud spews:

    DonnieGetsNone AKA StuckASS AKA Stuckonstupiddon: The Plumber? Yes I have the plumbing and I am the plumber. What do you have? Your left or right hand?

  144. 171

    Donnageddon spews:

    PuddyBud, I think someone else is cleaning out your wifes pipes. Ever check for cigarette packs when you come home from a business trip?


  145. 172

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    if you think for a second, Jesus would support capital punishment… well, then you worship Satan. -Comment by Donnageddon— 12/3/05 @ 7:36 pm

    Wrong again dopeydonnie…

    Holy Scripture teaches that every human life has sacred value (And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him. Genesis 1:27). God Himself authorized capital punishment specifically for murder (the unauthorized taking of human life) after the Noahic Flood, validating its legitimacy in human society (Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed. For in the image of God He made man. Genesis 9:6). In authorizing capital punishment for murder, God states that it is precisely because He made man in His own image that He requires this punishment. While capital punishment is authorized for murder, it is not for theft or destruction of property, however valuable.

    Fallen human nature has made impossible a perfect judicial system, and God required proof of guilt before any punishment was to be administered (Deuteronomy 19:15-19). God, who is wholly just in His character, also insisted that the civil magistrate judge all people equally under the law, regardless of class or status (Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 1:17).

    Furthermore, we see in Romans 13:3-4, that capital punishment is reinforced in the New Testament. We also have the testimony of Jesus Christ, who said:

    “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17).

  146. 173

    Donnageddon spews:

    ProudAss! You amaze me. To pick and choose completely tangental Old Testament and New tetament to satisfy your blood lust!

    Jesus, does not hold you in very high regard. After all. He was executed.

  147. 174

    Donnageddon spews:

    But I a sure you, Pac, and Puddy would have been in the crowd screaming for Jesus’s execution.

  148. 175

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    In your delusionsional arrogance you are now speaking for Jesus?

    I don’t need to pick and choose sweetcheeks, the Bible says what the Bible says whether you like it or agree with it.

  149. 176

    tomas spews:

    @165 HA HA

    No way anyone still associated with the plan to attack/democratize Iraq (real or perceived)will be elected to presidency in the future. Powell is trying to distance himself from it, but too little..too late

  150. 177

    Donnageddon spews:

    And now I am to take your interpretation of what the bible says as Gospel!

    You think far too much of yourself, ProudAss, and too little of Christ.

  151. 181

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    I suppose we all know too little of Christ, donniegetsNone, except those of you who don’t know Him at all. We that do, pray for you.

  152. 182

    Donnageddon spews:

    Pray not for me, ProudAss, cause there ain’t gonna ba a God worth a damn that would listen to you.

  153. 183

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Oh I see, the good God loving Christian that you are … qualifies God.

    Your praise to Him knows no bounds.

  154. 184

    Donnageddon spews:

    Powell removed all chance for the Presidency when he allowed himself to be used a Neo-Con mouthpiece at the UN.

  155. 185

    Donnageddon spews:

    ProudAss, as I have stated many times, I am an athiest. I just happen to love Jesus more than you!

  156. 186

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Of course you’re an atheist, the good little liberal that you are can’t believe in anyone higher than himself. I expect nothing more from you, because it take courage to be a person of faith.

  157. 187

    Donnageddon spews:

    “it take courage to be a person of faith.”

    Depends on what you place your faith in and why.

  158. 188

    Donnageddon spews:

    But then, I assume you mean it takes the “fear” of a God, to be a person who has “faith” in a God.

  159. 189

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Well, sweetcheeks, had you been paying attention you would remember we were talking about faith in GOD.

    It’s very cute the way you attempt to change the debate. do you do that with your left hand…er, date, too?

  160. 191

    Donnageddon spews:

    ProudAss, I assume by GOD, you mean the Arabhamic concept of GOD. There are several others, and many more throughout history.

    I assume you do not believe in Zeus. Do you? Isis? Thor?

  161. 192

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    I assume by GOD, you mean the Arabhamic concept of GOD. There are several others, and many more throughout history.

    I assume you do not believe in Zeus. Do you? Isis? Thor? -Comment by Donnageddon— 12/3/05 @ 8:11 pm

    There’s only one true God, sweetcheeks.

    There is a great book my son and I shared back when he was in elementary school… How Do You Spell God?.

    The passage the sticks in my mind the most, after all these years is the passage about God… they explained it as God being the very top of a mountain.. there are many paths (releigions) up that mountain, some easy, some very long and hard, but they all lead to the same place: knowing God.

    I doubt you would have the courage to read that book.

  162. 193

    Donnageddon spews:

    Then there it is, ProudAss. You do not believe in any of the many other Gods.

    I just disbelieve in one more God than you.

  163. 194

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Then there it is, ProudAss. You do not believe in any of the many other Gods. -Comment by Donnageddon— 12/3/05 @ 8:24 pm

    Please, donniegetsNone, attempt to make sense…. just once.

  164. 195

    Donnageddon spews:

    I know it hurts, ProudAss. But perhaps it will make sense to you when you remove the dogma.

  165. 196

    Donnageddon spews:

    And when you come into the discussion quoting Deuteronomy, and then try to spin the old “Every God is the One True God that is in the Bible” don’t expect to be taken seriously.

  166. 197

    dj spews:

    Harry Poon @ 150

    “Sweet reason is not the main attribute of the commenter I know of as , marks. Maybe there is more than one marks.”

    Perhaps, but if so, it appears that you lashed out at the reasonable one.

    “But I don’t need you hounding me, dj.”

    Did you think my original reply was hounding? Geez…I just asked for reasonable debate on a topic that if found interesting. I did suggest that you had a knee jerk reaction, but that was hardly hounding. Perhaps you are a little on edge tonight?

    “Look at the trolls you’ve emboldened and the utter nonsense of their remarks.”

    Ummmm…think again. My comment to you has not emboldened anyone in this thread.

  167. 198

    righton spews:

    yipes, only thing worse than Roger 4x per minute is Donnageddeen

    (i assume are the same people)

  168. 199

    dj spews:

    Righton @ 198

    Nope…they are not the same people. Cripes…what does this idiotic obsession about people posting concurrently under multiple names come from?

  169. 200

    Harry Poon spews:

    re 197: And I asked for some stats on other Senatorial races where a candidate won with 83% of the vote to highlight the uniqueness of this event and how Diebold machines enhance the Reps. propensity to win. But, dj, you’re too busy supporting your pet right wing troll, marks, to notice he’s throwing out soft BS answers to hard questions— but I guess that’s what you do in the”center”— defend fake civility that you’ve mistaken for substance.

    If you love marks so much , dj, why don’t you marry him?

  170. 201

    sgmmac spews:

    It probably comes from people not knowing who they are talking to…… As an example, headless lucy, apache fog, Dr E & Dr Quest. Lucy asked me a question and then a little while later Dr E demanded to know why I didn’t answer his question – that Lucy asked…..

  171. 202

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    If you love marks so much , dj, why don’t you marry him? -Comment by Harry Poon— 12/3/05 @ 8:50 pm

    Thank you for your contribution ot the conversation, PeeWee Herman.

  172. 203

    Donnageddon spews:

    Oh hell, let Righton have his conspiracy theories. We all know righton is just a computer AI posting from a server at RNC headquarters!

  173. 204

    sgmmac spews:

    When lucy aggravated me earlier, Dr Quest came in immediately to try and explain what lucy was talking about.

  174. 206

    righton spews:

    dj and donna

    ya’ll that post 15 x in a row (chiefly roger) are boring as crap. No wonder Roger posts here, nobody stands a chance talking to such a windbag

  175. 207

    dj spews:

    Harry Poon @ 200

    “If you love marks so much , dj, why don’t you marry him? “

    Grow up, kiddo. You don’t do our side any good by acting like an childish idiot.

  176. 208

    dj spews:


    “So, my question to you DJ is; Who is Lucy?”

    I don’t personally know Lucy, other than from reading HA comment threads. I do personally know many of the other leftie posters here, though. It is astonishing to see accusations pop up repeatedly (and not just by wingnuts).

    Regarding people jumping in on conversations…that is just the nature of open threads. The culture of this blog seems to be one of accepting anybody jumping in wherever they want. It doesn’t make them the same person (even if they share political ideology).

  177. 209

    sgmmac spews:

    Thanks for the nice answer. I jump in too and everyone does. Sometimes things just strike you as strange. I have read the accusations, which is why I thought Lucy is numerous personalities. People sometimes have a hard time accepting things that are outside of their moral boundaries. The political ideologies on this board are fairly diversified. Far left and Far Right and everything in between from what I have seen. It does lead to boisterous comments.

  178. 210

    dj spews:

    righton @ 206

    “ya’ll that post 15 x in a row (chiefly roger) are boring as crap.”

    Hey…exercise your free will and read elsewhere if that is how you feel. My guess is that you would not be missed much around here.

  179. 211

    Jerry Springer Jr. spews:

    Righton @ 206, I agree that Roger can overdo it (maybe he needs his own blog), but I don’t find your contributions to be all that useful and interesting. Why don’t you model what you supposedly want to see here? Or are you more interested in whining?

  180. 213

    Puddybud spews:

    Righton: Are we writing in code? donnageddeen, kind of like the mujahideen?

    PacMan, ProudASS: Anton LaVey; Mr Satanist himself. StuckASS doesn’t understand; either you are for Christ or you are for Satan. Since he isn’t for Christ because he must be a follower of Anton LaVey. There is no gray area.

    ProudASS: Herman PeeWee… Harry Poon, nice touch ProudASS!

    DJ: I remember loosy saying that they were many people. So maybe Dr Quest is the alter ego? I realize Rupert Wabbet and StuckASS (donnageddeen) are not the same people. StuckASS said he was a magnitude lower order IQ than Rupert Wabbet. Hence my dull knife commentary. Well from tonight’s postings he is many magnitudes lower on the IQ scale. I’d say idiot savant.

  181. 214

    PacMan spews:

    Don-don: Good luck to you. You better get some Ginsana or Ginko Biloba to improve that IQ.

    Sgmmac: Who cares who loosy is? The fewer people whom deal with that schmuck the better!

  182. 215

    Donnageddon spews:

    PuddyBud, I never said I had a lower IQ than RR (which makes you a liar) But I know one thing for certain, I am 3 figures higher on the IQ than your Christ-hating ass.

    PacMan, It seems you can’t justify your bloodlust with the Bible.

    I guess that makes you a Satanist too. At the very least, you are no follower of Christ! But that is par for the course for conservative “Christians”. You are all CINO. Christinas In Name Only.

  183. 216

    marks spews:

    A couple of points:

    I recall HL saying that he posts under other names. I could dig it out, but I’ll just save time by saying that it was right around the time Judge Bridges ruled on the election.

    Interestingly, he claimed he got more negative feedback from using HL as a handle than any other alias. From there he attempted to link it to misogyny on the part of the right. Of course, he glosses over the fact that all of his statements are designed to elicit a negative response.

    Now, we have Harry Poon sounding very similar to HL and acting quite childish (marry dj? Grow up).

    I posted @111 in response to Harry:

    Name any other Senatorial contest where a non-incumbent no less won a HUGE majority(83%}

    “You need to research things. Hagel was the Incumbent in 2002 when he won with 83%. He won his seat first in 1996.

    How much other crap do you spout without having facts? Are you also Headless Lucy?”

    I may be wrong, Harry Poon, but you do seem to post sophomoric comments designed to bring out a reactionary response from your adversaries, and I will oblige you when I am your target.

  184. 217

    Puddybud spews:

    Marks: I knew I wasn’t going nuts here. I remember many other stoopid comments from loosy.

    StuckASS: Did you forget you saying weeks ago “I’m not as smart as Roger Rabbit” What does not being as smart mean? It means lower IQ. Yes, you are a dull knife and lower in IQ. In fact, you are at the idiot savant level. Did you go brain window shopping too while others were cashing out their brain orders? Run along now StuckASS your other blow-up doll is calling you. Remember the lotion this time so the friction doesn’t melt your “lover”. Will it be Vaseline Intensive Care or Caress?

  185. 218

    Puddybud spews:

    Harry Poon, you failed on the 2002 Senate Campaign Chairman, just like you fail on most of your idiotic comments on ASSes. Maybe Harry Poon is the left brain and headless lucy is the right brain of the same person. Need a hint? She is considered one of the dumbest senators in the chamber.

  186. 219

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Merry Christmas,” etc.

    I’m a Christian, so it works for me, trollfuck! You have a Happy Holidays, y’all hear now?

  187. 220

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “In your delusionsional arrogance you are now speaking for Jesus?”

    Why not? You trolls do it all the time. Why the hell should Republicans have a monopoly on speaking for Jesus? Republicans want a monopoly on every fucking thing! Liberals can speak for Jesus, too. We do a better job than you greedy, selfish, warmongering, death-dealing haters.

  188. 222


    Hey did any of you hear the new bright eyes song “When a president gets his knob bobbed” Is he referring to Clinton. Nahhh

  189. 225

    Puddybud spews:

    So StuckASS: Are you going to lead the charge to remove all crosses from cemetaries?

    StuckASS: Are you that guy who wears a Snickers toupee in the Snickers commercial?

  190. 227

    Puddybud spews:

    Or Rupert Wabbet: What is your pithy commentary on this exchange?

    On FOXNews this evening, Bill O’Reilly asked well-known comedian Jackie Mason, “What do you think of the ACLU?”

    Without hestitation, Mason replied:

    “The ACLU are a bunch of sick people who fight for anything that’s anti-American, anything that’s dirty or vulgar, and hate anything that’s respectable or decent.

    Do you know the ACLU protected the right of a museum to have dung thrown over Mary, the mother of Christ?*

    They protected their right to do it and not only that — but to have it as a work of art and that the government should support it, and it should be in a musuem!

    You’re allowed to destroy the mother of God, but you can’t mention Christ because that’s considered dirty.

    Do we live in a sick world?”

    David: I like Jackie Mason! Do you? When he became a comedian, he gave up studying to become a rabbi.

  191. 228

    Puddybud spews:

    Awww poor RugratASS: Looks like America is delivering you a new smackdown.

    “President Bush’s campaign to rebut claims by Democrats that the U.S. is losing the war on terror has already begun to pay big dividends – according to a new Rasmussen survey released Friday.

    Confidence that the U.S. will ultimately prevail has jumped dramatically, up 9 points in the last six weeks, reports Rasmussen.

    Just 39 percent of Americans believed the U.S. was winning in a survey taken in mid-October – with 34 percent believing that the terrorists were winning.

    But in a survey completed on Dec. 1, 48 percent were confident of a U.S. victory – and only 28 percent said the terrorists were likely to win.”

  192. 229

    Puddybud spews:

    Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch Turns Tables on Media

    The American media is up in arms over reports that the Pentagon hired a public relations firm to write positive news stories about the Iraq war and get them printed in the Iraqi press.

    But Maj. Gen. Rick Lynch, spokesman for U.S. forces in Baghdad, isn’t letting journalists get away with their phony display of outrage.

    After the New York Times front-paged the “fake news” story Thursday under the headline: “U.S. Is Said to Pay to Plant Articles in Iraq Papers,” Gen. Lynch defended the practice.

    “We don’t lie. We don’t need to lie,” he told reporters in Baghdad. “We do empower our operational commanders with the ability to inform the Iraqi public, but everything we do is based on fact, not based on fiction.”

    Sounds to us like Gen. Lynch was taking a none too subtle jab at the mainstream media’s penchant for reporting – not just planted stories – but its own faked news reports.
    Perhaps the next time he’s questioned about “planting” stories, he’ll get even more specific, by reminding the military’s accusers of their own sorry history.

    Beginning with:

    • The New York Times – and the false reports the Old Gray Lady printed about PFC Jessica Lynch – courtesy of Jayson Blair.

    • The Washington Post – which won a Pulitzer Prize for its series on Little Jimmy, the 8-year-old heroin addict – which the paper had to give back once star Post reporter Janet Cooke admitted she’d faked the whole story.

    • CBS – Perhaps at the next press briefing, Gen. Lynch could inquire as to whether the Tiffany network has yet discovered just who it was who forged President Bush’s National Guard records – before Dan Rather committed professional suicide by putting them in the air.

    • NBC – Gen. Lynch might offer the Peacock network a hearty round of congratulations for their relatively good conduct over the last decade. It’s been more than 10 years since NBC aired video of an exploding GM truck gas tank – which was faked by their reporters.

    In fact, the list of fake news stories reported by the mainstream press is so long it would make even Baghdad Bob blush.

    It’s good to know that some in the military – like Gen. Lynch – aren’t about to let the press’ hypocrisy go unnoted.

  193. 231

    Puddybud spews:

    RugratASS: “Bush’s approval rating jumped six points over last month’s result to 42 percent among Americans surveyed. His disapproval numbers still outpace that figure, however, with 48 percent dissatisfied with his job performance, primarily centered on the war in Iraq.”

    What if Bush’s approval rating peaks during election time next year Rupert?

  194. 232

    Puddybud spews:


    Colonel George E. “Bud” Day (R)
    Medal of Honor – Air Force Cross – Distinguished Service Medal – Silver Star – Legion of Merit – Distinguished Flying Cross – Bronze Star for Valor with two Oak Leaf Clusters – Air Medal with nine Oak Leaf Clusters – Purple Heart with three Clusters – POW Ribbon says: “As America fights to defend our citizens from terrorists, I’m shocked at how weak many of our “leaders” in Congress are. Politicians like Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders have no idea what it takes to defend our nation.”

    Hmmm…? I guess he knows; he was with John McCain at the Hanoi Hilton. He said he was beaten, tortured, and kept in mind-numbing isolation, his love for and loyalty to his country kept him going.

  195. 233

    For the Clueless spews:

    Open thread day: a few threads of liberal lucidity amidst a miserable cesspool of wingnut fruit basket lies and insanity.

  196. 234

    dj spews:

    Puddybud @ 229

    “Now here is a “progressive” baby bringing crack to their day care.”

    “Progressive”? How does that follow from the information in the article? Do you really think that a mother who somehow manages to leave packets of crack in her child’s clothes has a political agenda at either end of the spectrum?

    This mother and child’s lives are a tragedy, and your attempt to make light of the situation to make a petty political point is not really funny. And..ummm…it seems inconsistent with other values you profess on this blog.

    Sorry, Puddy, that is my honest appraisal of your post.

  197. 235

    JDB spews:

    For the Clueless:

    You have to understand, the wingnuts have no lives. If they didn’t post their dreck here, they might have to actually confront reality…., or at least go out of their dank little basement apartments or bedrooms at their mother’s place.

  198. 236

    JDB spews:

    It has been over 24 hours since I asked the minnow directly if he, Dino Rossi, Chris Vance and David Irons were all members of a satanic cult. He has yet to respond.

    According to the minnow’s own logic, we now know that he is a member of a satanic cult. Is it any wonder that he doesn’t replace his banner with a large “Merry Christmas” banner at his web site?

    The question now is are they going to kill one innocent or two at their dark mass next week? If he does not refute this, we must assume it is two.

    Boy, it is fun to play in a world run by the minnow’s logic. Why let facts get in your way.

  199. 237

    Puddybud spews:

    DJ: Coming from the Phila area, I know all about how the city votes. If you choose to perform a google search, there were votes already on Phila Voting machines before the “official” voting began.

    We know also know about who wins in Phila. Remember the mayor scandal?

    We also know who runs Phila. So if the voting slants one way, it’s predominately liberal, and mostly minorities vote liberal, I think there is a very high chance she is liberal, oops… progressive.

  200. 238

    jaybo spews:

    Roger Rabbit,

    Here’s a news story that should really help the dems.

    Hillary Clinton’s 9/11 Cash Squandered

    New York Sen. Hillary Clinton once called securing $20 billion from the federal government to help New York City recover after the 9/11 attacks her proudest moment.

    But a new study suggests that a substantial portion of the 9/11 money Clinton and Sen. Charles Schumer managed to wangle from the Bush administration has been wasted.

    A four-month investigation by New York’s Daily News reveals that the process for doling out the $21.4 billion disaster recovery package was “procedurally flawed” – and that there was “little oversight there was over the spending.”
    “In effect, no one was watching,” the News said – including Mrs. Clinton.

  201. 239

    jaybo spews:

    The dems demonstrate how much they care about human rights (note how the dems responded to the question posed).

    Do you think the world would be better off or worse off if the U.S. military had not taken action in Iraq and Saddam Hussein were still in power? (29-30 Nov 05)
    Better off: 27%(all); 41%(dems); 10%(repubs); 29%(indep)
    Worse off: 52%(all); 34%(dems); 78%(repubs); 47%(indep)
    (Same as): 8%(all); 8%(dems; 6%(repubs); 11%(indep)
    (Don’t know): 13%(all); 18%(dems); 6%(repubs); 13%(indep)

    Of course, they don’t seem too concerned about the massive human rights violations of the Saddam regime.

    The big black book of horrors
    Rebecca Weisser
    December 03, 2005
    WITH the trial of Saddam Hussein under way, those in the God-damn-America camp find themselves uncomfortably wedged. Should they justify their opposition to the war by downplaying Saddam’s crimes while sheeting home blame for the present turmoil to the US and its allies? Or do they opt for the defence of moral equivalence, conceding that Saddam was indeed a monster but those US presidents who once backed his regime, including George H.W. Bush, are the real monsters.

    (within the article)
    “There is no secret about these mass graves,” Stoyke writes. “Military convoys crossed towns, full of civilian prisoners, and returned empty. People living near execution sites heard the cries of men, women and children. They heard shots followed by silence.”,00.html

  202. 240

    jaybo spews:

    Since the link doesn’t work, I will post more form the article.

    “The best riposte to this warped analysis is a scholarly and sober 700-page volume recently published in France, of all places. Le Livre Noir de Saddam Hussein (The Black Book of Saddam Hussein) is a robust denunciation of Saddam’s regime that does not fall into the trap of viewing everything in Iraq through a US-centric prism. The writers – Arabs, Americans, Germans, French and Iranian – have produced the most comprehensive work to date on the former Iraqi president’s war crimes, assembling a mass of evidence that makes the anti-intervention arguments redundant.

    “The first weapon of mass destruction was Saddam Hussein,” writes Bernard Kouchner, who has been observing atrocities in Iraq since he led the first Medecins Sans Frontieres mission there in 1974. “Preserving the memory of the arbitrary arrests that Saddam’s police conducted every morning, the horrible and humiliating torture, the organised rapes, the arbitrary executions and the prisons full of innocent people is not just a duty. Without that one cannot understand either what Saddam’s dictatorship was or the urgent necessity to remove him.”

    The obsession of many journalists and commentators with the fruitless hunt for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons has meant much of the evidence of Saddam’s atrocities in liberated Iraq has been under-reported. Sinje Caren Stoyke, a German archeologist and president of Archeologists for Human Rights, catalogues 288 mass graves, a list that is already out of date with the discovery of fresh sites every week.”

    (Le Livre Noir de Saddam Hussein (The Black Book of Saddam Hussein))

    Stoyke estimates one million people are missing in Iraq, presumed dead, leaving families with the dreadful task of finding and identifying the remains of their loved ones.

    Abdullah Mohammed Hussein was a soldier fighting in the mountains when Iraqi troops took the Kurdish village of Sedar and deported three-quarters of the inhabitants, including his mother, his wife and their seven children. They were taken to a concentration camp at Topzawa and from there some were taken to an execution ground near the archeological site of Hatra, south of Mosul. The remains of 192 people have been found, 123 women and children and 69 men, among them Abdullah’s wife and three of their children. There is no trace of his mother and the other four children. They were victims of the genocidal Anfal campaign, which sought to exterminate the Kurds.

    Between February and September 1988, 100,000 to 180,000 Kurds died or disappeared. The bombing of the Kurdish village of Halabja with chemical weapons including mustard gas, tabun, sarin and VX on March 16, 1988, which killed 3000 to 5000 civilians, was the most publicised of these atrocities because it occurred near the Iranian border and Iranian troops were able to penetrate with the assistance of Kurds, filming and photographing the victims.

    Halabja was not an isolated case however. Saddam used chemical weapons at least 60 times against Kurdish villages during Anfal.

    And Kurds were not the only victims of Saddam, who ordered the arrest of numerous Shi’ites. Saadoun Kassab, an engineer who helped build Abu Ghraib in 1957, a prison that was designed to hold 4000 prisoners, was later to be held there for a year. He told Chris Kutschera, the book’s editor: “When I was imprisoned in Abu Ghraib in 1985, there were 48,500 prisoners. I was imprisoned for eight months in a space 1mx1.5m, a box. I was sometimes in there for a fortnight without going outside. I wanted to be interrogated to get outside, to see daylight and human beings. All that because I said hello to Saad Saleh Jaber [son of a former Shi’ite prime minister from the time of the monarchy]. I saw people die.”

  203. 241

    Puddybud spews:

    Jaybo: You mean that NYC money wasn’t adeqautely controlled? You mean we have another New Orleans “levee spending” situation in NYC? Where are is the outcry in the NY Times. Oh that’s right money wasting is nothing new to the NY Times. They haven’t reported on the money wasting (or is that squandering) at ScAIR America.

    You are not going to convince the ASSes. They hate GWB and anything to get him removed, including losing the war in Iraq, is acceptable to them. If we don’t succeed in destroying them there; when they terrorists arrive on our shores for their assault on the blue states of America, watch the libbies cry out!!!

  204. 242

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Anybody hear the news out of Ottawa. THe Liberal Government under Prime Minister Paul Martin collapsed. All three other parties in Ottawa, the COnservatives, the centrist New Democrat Party, and the Quebec-centric Bloc Quebecois voted in unison to give the Govt. a vote of No-Confidence, triggering an election, NEXT MONTH! Up in Canada, there are 4 parties with representation in Ottawa, and the Canadian Green Party is not that far behind, they polled around 5% Nationally last time, which is Mixed-Member Proportional Representation with a 4%-5% victory threshold would have given them about 15 of the 308 seats in the House of Commons, but Canada uses Single-Member Districts(Just like us), which with distorted results, makes for the unstable government they have now. The Liberal Party went from a majority to barely more seats than the Conservatives in the election last year. The Corruption Scandals may have lost the Liberals the support of the party they needed to stay in, the NDP.

    The turning province in the upcoming election might just be our neighbor, British Columbia. The provincial legislature is still in the hands of the Liberal(in name only, no affiliation with Martin’s govenrment, and are a coalition of former COnservatives, and Social Credit Party members) Party, but the NDP has rallied back from the defeat of 2001, where the Liberals took 77 of 79 seats in Victoria, with only 57.5% of the vote. With only about 40%, they had just a few more seats than the NDP this time, with Vancouver Island now Orange(color of the NDP). British Columbia is home to one of the largest cities in Canada. Both our system and their system has their faults. In some states, we can have a No Confidence Vote for selected officials, in fact, that is just what is happening in Spokane on Tuesday with Mayor West. If the voters say yes to the Recall, they will be saying due to his mis-use of his office, that they have no confidence in him, and he will be removed from office.

  205. 243

    For the Clueless spews:

    Terrific sources of information. NewsWingnutSmack and Faux News. No axes to grind there.

  206. 244

    bill spews:

    Jaybo, who exactly is doling out that money? Last I heard it was FEMA, but I could be wrong. Also, who did that study you mentioned?

  207. 245

    bill spews:

    Puddy, so what you are saying at 226 is that if you dislike the message enough, there should be no freedom of speech? Is that correct? And you are only in favor of freedom of religion so long as the person is choosing some branch of christianity, right?

    Thought so.

  208. 246


    There is only ONE branch of Christianity…The Jesus Branch.

    The Christ said: “There are only two commandments…love the Lord God with your whole heart and your whole soul and…love your neighbor as youself.”

    He said a lot of other neat shit that most “christians” conveniently forget.

    Good thing He’s NOT vengeful. There’d be a LOT right-wing commenteers turned into snakes and slugs.

  209. 247

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Yeah, yeah he’s a conservative… that does nothing to negate the facts… deal with it fringies…. and enjoy RIGHT thinkers and Merry CHRISTmas!

    by JB Williams
    Why Many Modern “Liberals” Qualify as “un-American”

    First, many modern liberals aren’t liberal at all today. Instead of seeking to expand personal freedom and liberty like the liberals of old, they seek to remove freedoms and liberties from others to support their federal dependency. There ain’t nothin’ American about that!

    Just so you don’t miss the point, let’s keep it simple and straight forward. People from other countries who hate American principles are called “anti-American”. People from America who hate those same American principles are called “un-American”. Too simple?

    Oh I know – it’s politically incorrect to use the term “un American” when referring to people who call themselves American. That’s as good a place to start as any. Unlike the French, real “Americans” couldn’t care less about political correctness. So get over it and learn to accept whatever title you have earned.

    Frankly, there is no more appropriate term than “un-American” to describe the behavior of many liberals living in America today. Being born or legally residing in America does not make one American. Sure, legally it does, but that’s all. Being an American requires much more than just calling this piece of real estate home.

    What is an American? If America is an idea, a vision, a set of common beliefs based upon a love and respect for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, freedom, self-governance and self-determination; – then being an American must mean being one who upholds, supports, protects, promotes or defends these principles.

    American is an overused term today, just like the term “hero”. I saw Chris Matthew’s from Hardball interviewing one of the congressmen recently scuffed up in an auto accident while joy riding around Iraq the other day, referring to him as a “hero”. Why, because he visited Iraq and got scuffed in a car wreck? I’m not sure how this qualified the good congressman as a “hero”, but it did in Matthews mind.

    On the other hand, if getting three purple hearts in three months, all from self-inflicted surface scratches, none of which required medical treatment, qualifies you as a “hero”, why not a scuff from a fender-bender?

    Some call Rep. Jack Murtha a “hero” and I’m not suggesting he isn’t. But did he earn this title by actually performing some act of notable heroism while serving in Vietnam? He might have? Or did the act of serving alone earn him the title? I don’t know his war record, but I’m pretty willing to call just about anyone who ever wore a US military uniform a hero. So fine…

    I have enormous respect for Murtha or anyone who ever wore a US uniform in defense of my country. But I’m not sure that this act alone makes anyone a “hero” by definition. Certainly, many over the years have served in uniform, who were not a “hero”, like the kid that rolled a hand grenade into his CO’s tent at the beginning of Gulf War II, or the people caught playing stack-the-naked-terrorist at Abu Ghraib prison. Soldier yes – hero no!

    The point is – calling everyone a hero dishonors those who have actually earned that title. Likewise, calling everyone an American just because they legally reside in America dishonors those who earn that title by loving, supporting and defending those good ole American principles.

    Is it possible to be an American if you don’t believe in, support or defend fundamental American principles? The truthful answer is no, it isn’t. America is nothing more than a belief system based upon a set of principles. We can disagree on the details of implementation all we want. But if you don’t hold dear those basic American ideals, or if you spend your time fighting against those principles, you are not American, no matter what the address on your ID says. Both American and un-American are behavioral patterns, not just legal terms of residency.

    This is the basis in which so many of today’s so called “liberals” qualify as un-American and like it or not, real Americans who do uphold true American principles have run out of tolerance for those who don’t. Hence, the recent willingness to call them as they see them…

    Liberals are confused and perplexed by this recent development. They are offended that anyone would dare call them just what they are on the basis of how they behave. But isn’t it about time we start calling things what they are, while we still remember what they are?

    What would you call a congressman who used his Top level Security clearance to view Top Secret intelligence concerning a known enemy of America, only to then privately travel halfway around the globe to tell all he knew about Top Secret policy plans, helping our enemy prepare a defense?

    We use to call someone like this a traitor, guilty of treason. Today, we call him a patriot for boldly demonstrating his dissent against American policy. His name is Senator Rockefeller…and he did just that in 2002, while Chairmen of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. American or un-American behavior? You tell me…

    What about someone who stands before an international audience including our enemy and calls American soldiers, currently risking life and limb in defense of our nation “Nazis”? American or un-American behavior? His name is Senator Dick Durbin and he has clucked for the international camera more than once, calling his country a terrorist state operating “Gulags”. An act of American patriotism or anti Americanism?

    How about a Senator whose military band-of-brothers call him “unfit for command”, who recruited a few soci*list America bashing billionaires in an effort to buy a ride in the oval office chair he would win no other way? American or un American? His name is John Kerry, and he wants to try again in 2008.

    The examples of un-American politicians are nearly endless today. How about the people who vote for them? Hate capitalism? That’s a shame since America was designed, founded and became the world’s most prosperous and generous nation on the basis of a free-market capitalist economy. Capitalism = Americanism…

    Hate religious speech? That’s too bad… The founders seldom completed a single sentence without referring to their religious beliefs and they wrote the First Amendment for the purpose of insuring that free religious expression would always be part of the social discourse in this country. Fundamental morality and free religious expression = American.

    Believe in abortion? Unfortunately for you, the American founders wrote about an inalienable God given “right to life”, not any right to abort life for convenience sake, which has become the single largest affront on life, liberty and happiness in America today. Abortion = un-American.

    Patriot, one who loves, supports and defends his country. Nowhere can you find a definition of patriot that says one who hates, undermines, circumvents, attacks and seeks to destroy the founding principles of his country.

    In the federal government you trust? Sorry… Not an American concept – a soci*list concept. Hate corporations Is profit a dirty word in your world? Looking to vote yourself money from the treasury by electing officials willing to rob others on your behalf in exchange for your vote? Again, as un-American as robbing your next-door neighbor just because he has more…

    You can call yourself anything you want, it’s America. But the rest of us get to call you what you actually are… ”un American”. If you spend your time or vote for people who spend theirs, attacking fundamental American principles, there is no more appropriate term available.

    If you want us to stop calling you un-American, try acting American. If you don’t love, support, promote and defend true American principles and ideals, you are by all accounts, un American.

    Why are pro-abortion people offended when someone calls them a baby killer, but not offended by the act of killing babies itself? I have never figured that out???

    The same people are offended by just about everything America is, ever was or was ever intended to be. So why aren’t they proud of the title un-American? They are clearly proud to be un-American, just not happy with the title that accompanies their behavior. Why?

    I believe in fundamental American principles and would proudly die defending those ideals. I am proud to be a true American. If I were proud of soci*list principles, I’d be just as proud to be called a soci*list. Why aren’t they?

    Well, offended or not… they had better learn to live with the title they have worked so hard to earn. Acting against America IS by definition un-American.

    Deep down, they know who and what they are. They don’t find it the least offensive to be un-American. But being called un-American is quite another story…

  210. 248

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    And your 750,000 figure is a lie…er, stretch… in 2004 there were 433,267 up 1/10 of 1% form 2003.

  211. 251

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Nope I don’t.

    But I sure as hell can CALL you what you are… an UN-AMERICAN.

  212. 252

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Actually, I’m no longer calling you all ‘fruitcake fringies’, ‘liberal loonies’ or ‘no-nothing nutburgers’…

    hence forth, until you show yourselves otherwise (snicker, like that will happen), I will call you what you are, ‘UN-AMERICAN fruitcake fringies’, ‘UN-AMERICAN liberal loonies’ and ‘UN-AMERICAN no-nothing nutburgers’.

  213. 253


    Nice to see these un-American, facist, xenophobic, homophobic, MISANTHROPIC crapheads reval their true colors.

    Boy…that’s gonna be about 150,000 years in purgatory!

  214. 255


    Listening to donks say conservatives lie is like lsitening to an unemployed motivational speaker. It just doesn’t make sense… Ah it is funny though.

  215. 256

    Dr. E spews:

    Proudass @ various above

    You can go ahead an use the word “un-American” to your heart’s content, but the article you cited at length provided little real basis for the establishment of the concept of that which is “American”. In fact, his premise is flimsy, at best: “America is nothing more than a belief system based upon a set of principles.” This statement, of course, says nothing whatsoever about the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the USA, but further contains a flaw: the belief system he defines (with no supporting evidence) as “a vision, a set of common beliefs based upon a love and respect for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, freedom, self-governance and self-determination“.

    That’s right, self-determination. This is where his reasoning falls apart. He suggests that the American set of “values” is immutable, but the inclusion of self-determination allows for the possibility of mutability. You can pretty much throw away the rest of his argument until he rethinks his position. But alas, that’s the problem with so many “pundits” (and Williams seems not to be a very good one) these days: their positions really aren’t soundly thought out.

    One of the few really useful skills a graduate student might get on the way to an advanced degree is the ability to construct a tightly knit, highly defensible argument. That’s why they call master’s and doctoral exams “defenses”. One obviously doesn’t need an advanced degree (or any degree at all) to have such skills, but constructing such an argument requires a highly precise, focused reasoning — something your article lacks.

    So, until such time as you can put forward a better argument defining what “American” is (and hence what “un-American” is, I’ll just consider your “un-American” epithet to be empty words, with nothing behind them.

  216. 257

    Dr. E spews:

    And if that seems unfair, then let me reframe the matter:

    Let’s say I apply Williams’ logic and define an American (in terms of values/belief system) as someone who values democracy and democratic principles. I then offer this article — which is extremely precise, intellectually as support of my own thesis, which goes as follows:

    Quoting one key sentence from the thesis of this article, “[c]onservatism is the antithesis of democracy”, I then claim that Conservatives are un-American.

    How’s that for fairness?

  217. 258

    Dr. E spews:

    It’s also worth remembering that the Federal Convention of 1787 wasn’t exactly about some sort of idealized establishment of equality and true democracy, as many seem to think it was. The following famous (yet often forgotten) quote by James Madison is situated in the prevailing intellectual/historical climate here:

    “The landed interest, at present, is prevalent, but in process of time . . . when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small . . . will not the landed interests be overbalanced in future elections? and, unless wisely provided against, what will become of our government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.

  218. 259

    Dr. E spews:

    “Of course, [dems] don’t seem too concerned about the massive human rights violations of the Saddam regime.”

    Sorry, jabyo, that talking point (to quote Patrick Fitzgerald) won’t fly. Let me explain.

    First of all, the poll question says nothing whatsoever about human rights. You then offer an article as justification of your position — and article which progresses from a false dilemma. The ultimate flaw, however, rests in the suggestion (correct me if I’m understanding you wrong) that, since Saddam was a bad guy, a very bad buy who violated human right after human right, the US was justified in removing him from power, and that to suggest otherwise would mean that one doesn’t give a toss about human rights.

    I’ve got one word for that position: bullshit.

    The issue was never primarily nor exclusively one of human rights. But, to assert that human rights was a central reason for ridding the world of Saddam begs the question as to when we’ll follow our own ostensibly ethical position and rid the world of other human rights abusers. We probably should have then begun with Kim Jong-Il, but then certainly not stop there. No, the world is full of tyrants and despots who routinely suppress dissent, disappear citizens, torture and summarily execute dissidents, etc. I didn’t see Bush taking Islam Karimov to task for boiling his prisoners alive, and I don’t see him lecturing Pervez Musharraf about things like this. But then, Bush and his buddies also have quite a few human rights issues to answer for themselves.

  219. 260

    Dr. E spews:

    Questions to wingnuts: how many African leaders can you name? What kind of human rights violations are occurring under their watch? When are we going to start taking the moral high ground with them as well, and actively export democracy to their nations, using the military, if necessary?

  220. 261

    JCH spews:

    In Chitungwiza, a dormitory town that is home to more than a million black Zimbabweans, a breeze is a curse. It shifts the rotting rubbish in front of the tiny houses. And it laces the air with the stench of human waste, which drifts in thin dark rivers in the streets. /break/ The meltdown of one of the continent’s best infrastructures has been years in the making, the result of underinvestment and mismanagement. But the speed of the decline over the past few months has been astonishing. [Zimbabwe: The perfect 100% Democrat Hillary Village………..aka “Democrat Shithole”]

  221. 262


    So, until such time as you can put forward a better argument defining what “American” is (and hence what “un-American” is, I’ll just consider your “un-American” epithet to be empty words, with nothing behind them.

    Comment by Dr. E— 12/4/05 @ 2:45 pm

    That is part of the ongoing debate Dr E. A liberal I would argue has a different definition of what it is to be an American than a conservative. It doesn’t stop there; I would also argue that a liberal has a way different definition of what the meaning of “is” is. Who is right, well that would depend on how you would define what right meant. Oh how I love using relativism against donks.

  222. 263

    Donnageddon spews:

    “Oh how I love using relativism against donks.”

    Considering that most Republicans have had “relations” with their close relatives… Your “love” is duly noted.

    And don’t mess with my donkey, you sick fuck!

  223. 264

    Dr. E spews:


    “I would also argue that a liberal has a way different definition of what the meaning of “is” is.”

    Not unless your definition is somethiing other than “the third person singular of the present-tense conjugation of the verb ‘to be'”.

  224. 265

    Puddybud spews:

    Dr E. Being black I can name a whole bunch. From the Morrocan King, to the South African leader. What’s your point? Do you like Robert Mugabe, or do you try and emulate the late Idi Amin? You couldn’t name the 2002 Senate Campaign Chairman and this person comes from your back yard!!!!

    Rufus: Relativism to StuckASS @262 is his left hand slapping his right hand away from his wank in jealousy!

  225. 266

    jaybo spews:

    I found an article for all you “anti-war” weinies that I thought would give you some encouragement.

    Published Monday, November 28, 2005
    Anti-war groups face lack of interest

    Staff Reporter

    Camille Seaberry ’08 spent two weeks in October painting white crosses — 2,000 of them.

    As a coordinator for Yale Peace, Seaberry worked with two other students to prepare the crosses for a demonstration the organization was planning to commemorate the death of the 2,000th U.S. soldier in Iraq.

    But for all their effort — they worked three nights a week, more than three hours per night — the response they got when they displayed the 2,000 crosses on Cross Campus and read off the names of the 2,000 soldiers killed was disappointing, Seaberry and her fellow organizers said.

    “We thought maybe a few people would stop and listen, but we found that people didn’t even stop their conversations as we were reading out names of 18- and 19- and 20-year-olds who had died,” said Jesse Harris ’08, another Yale Peace organizer.

    In 2003, before the war in Iraq began, Harris said, Yale Peace had nearly 100 student members, could count upon 50 students showing up to its meetings, and filled four buses of students to head off to anti-war rallies in New York City and Washington. Now, she said, membership has fallen to around 10 students, only five to seven members attend weekly meetings, and the group had to reach out to the New Haven Peace Council to fill just one bus for a rally in Washington this September.

    “There isn’t really a sense that we’re still at war,” Harris said.

    Yale Peace is not the only group on campus that has struggled in mobilizing students against the war.

    Tiffany Wan ’07, a coordinator for the Yale chapter of Amnesty International, said her group also found that students were disengaged from the war when only 30 people, mostly adults, turned out for “Denounce Torture,” a panel discussion the group sponsored last April.

    Wan said there were several reasons for the low turnout at the panel — which featured one of the first journalists to break news of the Abu Ghraib scandal and a lawyer representing Guantanamo Bay inmates — including the fact that the Amnesty International chapter was focused on publicizing its “Rock for Rights” concert the next week. Aside from that, she said, she thought the lack of interest might stem from a sense of complacency among Yale students with respect to the war, due in part to the lack of a draft, and the fact that very few Yale students enlist in the military.

    “If you’re going to protest against the Iraq war on campus, who are you going to protest against on campus? We don’t have ROTC, we don’t have a massive Army or Marine recruiting effort,” she said. “It’s not students on our campus who are going out and fighting the war.”

    Alissa Stollwerk ’06, president of the Yale College Democrats, said she has the impression that Yale students are talking about the war, but only amongst themselves, and are looking to the federal government to lead on action.

    “There’s an incredible debate going on in Washington right now. [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid closed down the Senate in a closed session, and the Senate is very rarely closed,” Stollwerk said. “Debate is stirring, and I think that it will come to campus. I think that it’s here now, but only in a very informal sense.”

    Although Yale Peace’s membership has shrunk from four buses to the capacity of one van, Harris said the organization has led a number of smaller activities and talks this semester. In addition to reading the 2,000 names on Cross Campus, the group co-sponsored a talk by Tom Matzzie of with the Yale College Democrats and sponsored a panel with Tour of Duty, a speaking group that includes a former CIA agent and the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq.

    “Our big struggle has been to get everyone who is passively anti-war to get actively anti-war,” Seaberry said.

    Yale Peace’s efforts have been further stymied by internal disagreement surrounding the group’s attempt to hammer out a unified position on a possible exit strategy from Iraq. Although the group is unified in thinking that the war is misguided, the members are divided as to whether they should advocate for an immediate or gradual withdrawal, Harris said. She said the group already lost a few students who decided not to come rally in Washington because the rally’s theme was “Troops Out Now.”

    “There’s a general agreement among people that we shouldn’t be there, but since we are there, what should we do? That tends to be a divisive [issue], and we have so few members as it is, we can’t afford to be divisive” Harris said.

    To support the group’s efforts, Seaberry said, professor John Demos has been pulling together some fellow history professors to mobilize against the war. Demos and some of his colleagues volunteered to pay $100 each for speaker fees for the “Tour of Duty” speaking group after the original sponsor, the Council on Middle East Studies, backed out because the council cannot support political events.

    Demos said about 30 members of the history faculty and history graduate students turned out to a meeting he had organized at the beginning of the fall semester.

    “I find it puzzling and astonishing that there’s as little activity on campus against the war,” Demos said. “The thing that’s perplexing is that I’m quite convinced that if we polled the campus we’d find a great deal of skepticism, if not outright opposition, [to the war]. … We have that on the one hand, but on the other hand that kind of feeling is just not mobilized.”

    While Demos said he was disappointed in the low turnout at the Tour of Duty talk and was astonished at the lack of response to the display of the 2,000 crosses, he said he was optimistic that the recent speech by Democratic Congressman John Murtha questioning the war is symptomatic of a new life for the anti-war movement.

    “I’m hopeful in the sense that the whole tide nationally is turning against the current war policy,” Demos said. “Our short-term goal is to create some real active and demonstrative activity on campus against the war, but the long-term goal is that … there will be a national anti-war movement, as there was 35 years ago.”

    For now, Yale Peace is finalizing plans for “Counter Recruitment,” a program that will send Yale students to Wilbur Cross and Hillhouse high schools to distribute information about the costs of joining the military. The group has cleared the program with the New Haven Public Schools Superintendent Reginald Mayo, and they are waiting to hear back from the high school principals, Seaberry said.

    “It takes little actions like that just all the time to get big things going,” she said. “That’s why we haven’t given up, even though we have meetings of five people.”

  226. 267

    jaybo spews:

    Dr. E,

    Going back to your response to me about a previous post, you said, “The ultimate flaw, however, rests in the suggestion (correct me if I’m understanding you wrong) that, since Saddam was a bad guy, a very bad buy who violated human right after human right, the US was justified in removing him from power, and that to suggest otherwise would mean that one doesn’t give a toss about human rights.”

    Dr. E, correct me if I’m wrong but I could sware that the rational you said above is the exact reason why Pres. Clinton told the american people when he explained his decision to do into the Balkens. When it comes right down to it, human rights violations there were small when compared to Iraq.

    Why all of a sudden doesn’t it matter now?

    But that’s not my main point in posting the article. What I wanted to document was the absurd position the dems seem to be creating for themselves as demonstrated in the poll question.

    And finally, it will be the american people that will judge whether or not the dems have lost their sanity.

  227. 268

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    ” … it will be the american people that will judge whether or not the dems have lost their sanity.”

    In the last poll I saw, Bush’s approval rating was 36%, and 65% think the Iraq war was a mistake.

    Does that work for you, jaybo?

  228. 269

    Dr. E spews:


    I’m sure you’re aware of far many more than the average American, who could probably name a couple, if any. My point was this: the Bush administration has made such a big deal about the humanitarian goals in invading Iraq, yet they are reluctant to do anything at all about human rights issues the world over. There’s a huge concentration of such issues (and of anti-democratic governments) in Africa, but we don’t seem to be terribly proactive in spreading the gospel of democracy and respect for human rights there.

  229. 270

    Puddybud spews:

    Rupert, you need to get out more. The LASTEST poll has Bush at 42% and coming up. But I guess you didn’t “READ” post 231!

  230. 271

    Puddybud spews:

    Dr. E. I appreciate your concern for my ancestors continent. BTW is it yours too? But I digress. Please name for me a president that has cared for the African continent these past 50 years. Eisenhower didn’t. JFK didn’t. Johnson didn’t. Nixon didn’t. Ford didn’t. Carter didn’t. Reagan didn’t. But some interesting things happened against that evil called apartheid during the Reagan years. I’m not saying Reagan had anything to do with it fruitcake nutburger fringies, so no comments from the peanut-brained gallery. Bush didn’t. Clinton basically told the Tutsi Rwandans to go to hell.

    Look at Clinton’s foray into Somalia. No support for the troops. They asked for tanks and none came. Did you know the two sergeants who went down fighting received the CMOH posthumously? Did you see the movie Blackhawk Down? The two Army sergeants who die trying to protect the pilots is true. The father of one of the two sergeants, Herb Shugart, refused to shake President Clinton’s hand at the award ceremony, told him he killed his son, and told Clinton that he was unfit to be commander-in-chief. If he criticized President Bush, Herb Shugart would be the original Cyndy Sheehan. Continually for weeks, Herb would be on the evening news reports and cable news channels 24/7. CNN would have stopped the presses for him. Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann on MSNBC would have combined their shows to prop him up. Begala and Carville would be beating their chests on CNN. What your friends in the MSM didn’t tell you was Clinton sat on the CMOH paperwork for eight weeks before signing it. Why? I have no idea! Please don’t preach to me and other blacks anything about your grief over Bush and Africa. You can’t succor the Africans with this johnny come lately attitude!

    Be of good cheer Dr. E. and research the full story about Somalia. Skip over the freerepublic entries because I did in remembering this and researching it. BTW clueless 70 days and no Free Republic. Is it still 0 days and no Daily Kos? Is the 0 still being recycled?

  231. 272

    zip spews:

    Puddybud 270

    well put, the Gates foundation has done more for Africa than any Congress or Prez, republican or democrat. Of course the lefty wingnuts like Dr E will never acknowledge that.

  232. 273

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Last week the Canadian Government collapsed in a Vote of No Confidence, forcing an election next month, all 308 seats in the House of Commons are up for election. None in the Canadian Senate, since they are not elected. The Conservative Party had the centrist vote of the New Democrat Party this time, which combined with the Bloc Quebecois, was enough to shatter Paul Martin’s fragile Minority Government of the Liberal Party.

  233. 274

    sgmmac spews:

    I’be never heard of the Gates Foundation doing anything significant for Africa other than providing some bucks for Aids. What have they done? I would say Bono and Geldalf have done more than anyone.

  234. 275

    righton spews:


    Come on, billions, targeting nasty but cheap to cure diseases. You could argue he’s ignroing root cures (research) but he’s pouring money NOW and saving lives NOW

  235. 276

    Dr. E spews:

    “well put, the Gates foundation has done more for Africa than any Congress or Prez, republican or democrat.”

    Perhaps you should read this. Gates’ philanthropy isn’t necessarily what it seems to be. Ever heard of TRIPS? Read on:

    [L]et me let you in on a little secret about Bill and Melinda Gates so-called “Foundation.” Gate’s demi-trillionaire status is based on a nasty little monopoly-protecting trade treaty called “TRIPS” – the Trade-Related Intellectual Property Rights rules of the World Trade Organization. TRIPS gives Gates a hammerlock on computer operating systems worldwide, legally granting him the kind of monopoly the Robber Barons of yore could only dream of. But TRIPS, the rule which helps Gates rule, also bars African governments from buying AIDS, malaria and tuberculosis medicine at cheap market prices…

    Gates knows darn well that “intellectual property rights” laws such as TRIPS – which keep him and Melinda richer than Saddam and the Mafia combined – are under attack by Nelson Mandela and front-line doctors trying to get cut-rate drugs to the 23 million Africans sick with the AIDS virus. Gate’s brilliant and self-serving solution: he’s spending an itsy-bitsy part of his monopoly profits (the $6 billion spent by Gates’ foundation is less than 2% of his net worth) to buy some drugs for a fraction of the dying. The bully billionaire’s “philanthropic” organization is currently working paw-in-claw with the big pharmaceutical companies in support of the blockade on cheap drug shipments.

    Gates’ game is given away by the fact that his Foundation has invested $200 million in the very drug companies stopping the shipment of low-cost AIDS drugs to Africa.

    Gates says his plan is to reach one million people with medicine by the end of the decade. Another way to read it: he’s locking in a trade system that will effectively block the delivery of medicine to over 20 million.

  236. 277

    Dr. E spews:


    I know quite a bit about Somalia, the “Blackhawk Down” scenario, etc. And while people are justified in protesting about what happened in that incident, I think the larger issue is the nearly complete lack of interest the West has shown in the region since Siad Barre was deposed in 1989. The nation still has no central government, but do you see any western government doing much to establish order there?

    I don’t think the Blackhawk incident in any way compares to the magnitude of the disaster Bush has created in Iraq, even if only for the fact that Bush created the catastrophe. Somalia had already descended into internal anarchy by the time Clinton brought special forces in.

  237. 278

    Dr. E spews:


    I responded to your post last night, but the server timed out and it never made it here. Let me see if I can remember what I wrote:

    My main problem with your post is that you are making an assertion (dems don’t care about human rights/only care about human rights when it is convenient or politically expedient) with a poll question that says nothing whatsoever about human rights. Supporting an argument with a non-sequitur isn’t exactly supporting an argument.

  238. 279

    For the Clueless spews:

    Puddy “Freep” Koresh or TripleP (pod person puddy):

    I read the dailykos everyday just like you read The diarists on kos are quite well informed opining on economics and science in addition to politics and aren’t nearly in the same universe as the Freepers.

    You may not call out for liberals and lefties or Republican cops like Fitzgerald to be shot like the freepers but you certainly share their paranoid style and I have no idea what you keep to yourself.

    Jag all you want on that freeper/kos thing – 70 days and the rosy palm is turning bright red indeed.

  239. 280

    Dr. E spews:

    By the way, those of you with an interest in African matters should look into Poppy Bush’s dealings with Barrick Gold Corporation and their dealings with the Bulhanyulu mining project in Tanzania. Just google “Tundu Lissu,” and that might get you started.

  240. 281

    sgmmac spews:

    It wasn’t a merely a movie script or a planned scenario, it was a real live combat operation, soldiers died, soldiers lost limbs, all because one President’s Administration didn’t do their jobs!

  241. 282

    Puddybud spews:

    Dr E. When the wife and I went to SA in the late 90s we visited gold mines. We saw the conditions there. It was appalling. Kind of like the coal mines of today in China.

    But you didn’t answer my ORIGINAL thought of post 270. There is a complete lack of interest in the “Dark” Continent. Sure some anthropologists visit there to learn about animal species, or to prove some African tribes are direct descendents of the Kohanim, or archeologists venture there to dig up some lost cities.

    I enjoy verbally jousting with you but I used Somalia as an example of politically caused military largesse that cost the lives of some great men! The only reason any administration enters Africa is to acquire the raw materials at very low prices to build American infrastructure. The administrations make deals with some good leaders and some bad dictators for the raw materials and they trade some aid for this. But most of the aid doesn’t result in trickle down econimics; it lines the pockets of the leaders. For the nutburger fringy moonbats, that raw material acquisition occurred in ALL administrations.

    By the way rugratASS, more original thought above from Pudster. When dealing with INTELLIGENT people like Dr E., I enjoy the conversation. When dealing with ASSes like you, we whom think right enter ASSmode!

  242. 283

    Puddybud spews:

    CluelessASS: WTF? I’d insult you, but you’re not bright enough to notice. Wow, you are another DULL KNIFE on ASSes.

    Does Daily Kos have anything intelligent to add to this African conversation? You are a real fucking asshole. Get it? Everyday I’m trying to imagine you with a personality. We are talking about Africa. Some of us here are discussing the issues and problems with how Western societies view Africa. You talk about how you view Daily Kos. I used the fact I didn’t venture to Free Republic which has an extensive thread list on Somalia for my facts. I DIDN’T USE THEM JackASS!

    You, on the other hand, can’t create anything cogent in nature WITHOUT first seeing what Daily Kos has to say. And your crybaby whiny-assed opinion would be…? That’s the difference between you and me. You can disagree with my politics, but I don’t have to venture to conservative web sites to create my posts. You and friends like rugratASS on the other hand can’t live with Daily Kos. I can live without the conservative sites. I use the MSM, even MTV at times, just to prove to you the documentation is there. So cluelssASS when you want to jump in and add to the link, I’ll return the response. Otherwise why not plead contemporary insanity? You are another dipshit ASS who can’t argue themselves out of their small intellectual mindless prison. Kos on Karma Clueless.

    And the rosy palm thing; that’s our definition of StuckASS. Relativism to him is his left hand slapping away the right from the lotion bottle to lubricate his want!

  243. 284

    Puddybud spews:

    Damn, that should say “libricate his wank”. But I guess want works in a bizarre sense!!

  244. 285

    For the Clueless spews:


    Freep. Look in the mirror. You’re the ugly, holier than thou asshole. I don’t know how long you’ve been going on about this freeper/kos thing and the recyling of the 0, you act like you just started it yesterday – what does that have to do with Africa? I’ve been for the most part ignoring it because it merely illustrates what a useless holier than thou blowhard you are.

    You bring new information to the table? Bullshit. You bring stuff processed through the Republican noise machine filter.

    You address me I respond. You throw crap – prepare to have it deflected back in your ugly face.

    Deal with it.

    Here, argue with General Odom about “cut and run”, you brainwashed buffoon.

  245. 286

    Dr. E spews:

    “There is a complete lack of interest in the “Dark” Continent.”

    I completely agree with you here. Most Americans know far too little about Africa — either the current situation or its history. I have to confess that, even for the interest I have I still know far too little (especially the pre-20th century history of much of the continent, which is so tremendously varied). I was only there once (and only just — Morocco), and still keep the pipe dream of a 6-month trek accross the continent to actually be able to learn something first-hand.

    I was hopeful there for a little while when Clinton visited Africa in the 90s, paying lip service to the idea of truly engaging the African continent and helping with its modernization, but little really materialized from it. Bush, in my view, has done even less, but then his knowledge of the world in general pales in comparison to Clinton’s erudition. Not that that means Bush couldn’t do something, but I do feel that Clinton had a prime opportunity (especially to atone for his inaction during the Rwandan genocide, which I feel was utterly unconscionable) and blew it.

  246. 287

    Puddybud spews:

    You are so right Dr. E. When the wife and I travelled to Africa, we talked to the natives as much as possible. We saw how they lived, at their food, and generally had fun. We cried at the poverty. But an ASSHOLE like cluelessASS has no compassion.

    Dr E., I am glad you are not like cluelessASS. He forgets how his hatred for GWB colors his blog entries. As I stated earlier to cluelessASS: Everyday I’m trying to imagine him with a personality. Unfortunately that visualization does not materialize.

    Thanks for the conversation Dr. E. You are right that GWB doesn’t have a great command on foreign countries. That is unfortunate. It allows cluelessASS to claim GWB is a buffoon. Well he did outgrade JFK at Yale. Want to tackle Haiti next?

  247. 288

    For the Clueless spews:

    He forgets how his hatred for GWB colors his blog entries.

    s/GWB/Bill Clinton/

  248. 289

    Dr. E spews:


    Haiti — whoo boy. Maybe we should save that one for later. Don’t know if you saw the film “the Agronomist” — if not, see if you can pick it up on DVD. If that doesn’t piss you off (more) about the situation in Haiti and meddlesome US interference on many levels, I don’t know what will.

  249. 290

    Puddybud spews:

    Hey I distinctly the Duvaliers and Aristide. That’s why I asked about Haiti. How ’bout them Touton Macoutes?

  250. 291

    Puddybud spews:

    Clueless, when I arrived on this blog you were stirring the GWB hatred pot before I knew about ASSes. When we who think right identified holes and fallacies regarding WJC, you all call it hatred. There is a big difference. I can identify a few things Bill did well, unlike you who will not identify anything GWB has done well. How ’bout this economy?

  251. 292

    For the Clueless spews:


    Freep, don’t bullshit me. You hate Clinton and never miss an opportunity to bash him. You read Regnery books in which practically every title Clinton hatred is tuned, tweaked and stoked to white-hot intensity. You cite Newsmax and WND and Faux News which do the same not to mention a gaggle of wingnut bloggers.

    GWB has done two things successfully – gotten the Supreme Court to select him and Ohio to re-elect him. A compliant, bought Congress dominated by his party does his bidding in exchange for outrageous pork and winking at corruption.

    The economy is a total joke. It’s a false prosperity fueled by subsidies (oil,gas,nuclear,agriculture,defense), protectionism (steel and forest product tarrifs), pork-barrel (all kinds) and the real-estate bubble. Hunger is widespread and the people are haunted by debt and bankruptcy. Corporate profits are at an all time high and hardly any living wage jobs to speak of have been thrown off. This is all due to a large portion of job growth in manufacturing and while collar positions being exported to low wage domiciles. In this economy, a few have done well but the many are worse off.

    The madness of King George and and that of his Republican toadies in Congress has been an utter disaster for this country.

  252. 293

    Puddybud spews:

    Dr E. I’m back. The first sentence should have read: “Hey I distinctly remember the Duvaliers and Aristide.”

    Clueless, your silence has answered my question. Your silence has really proved how shallow you are. Any sane person knows GWB has done at least three great things so far. But you are INsane, so you don’t have to answer me. Don’t worry we WON’T tell them to you. You can perform a Google search for your answer. But if you do I’ll expect something stupid, silly and asinine prefaced with P3 or PFK. Good night clueless. Everyday I’m trying to imagine you with a personality. Unfortunately that visualization never materializes. You are another dull knife in the drawer of life.

  253. 294

    For the Clueless spews:

    Oh I forget Puddy Freep Koresh the sharp one – he made a good speech before Congress after 9/11 or maybe the shouted some words of inspiration with a bullhorn at Ground Zero or maybe in a state of the union he mumbled some words about weapons of mass destruction program related activities…

  254. 295

    Puddybud spews:

    Once again I called it on cluelessASS with the PFK. Wrong on all three counts. Those weren’t great things for the US. Keep trying though. Maybe you should email some of the other ASSes here. Still clueless after all these years. What did the Daily Kos say day before yesterday, yesterday, today cluelessASS? Have your formulated your rant topic for Tuesday December 06, 2005?

  255. 296

    Puddybud spews:

    ASSes: Why does Joe Lieberman say: “is a war between 27 million Iraqis who want freedom and 10,000 terrorists.” and John Kerry in 2005 say: “I don’t agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is, you’ve got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment; you’ve got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis, and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the — of — of — of — historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not. Iraqis should be doing that. And after all of these two and a half years, with all of the talk of 210,000 people trained, there just is no excuse for not transferring more of that authority.”

    So ASSes, who is the demented one? Hint, it isn’t Joe Lieberman.

    John Kerry in 1971 say:”They told the stories of times that they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in the fashion reminiscent of Jen-giss [sic] Khan, not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with a full awareness of officers at all leveled of command.”

    Golly, retreaded words.

  256. 301

    Puddybud spews:

    Goldy: What happens if DeLay is cleared? One conspiracy charge dropped. Judge Priest said he had yet to rule on a defense motion of prosecutorial misconduct. Jury shopping anyone?

  257. 302

    For the Clueless spews:


    I could care less what you admire GWB for – he is running neck and neck with James Buchanan for the WORST president this country has ever had.

  258. 303

    Michael spews:

    Every president since JFK I believe has had approval ratings in the mid 30s at some point in their term.