Open Thread 11/28

- More like this, please.

Calling 911 is enough. Not calling 911 is not enough. We have an actual phone line you can call into, directly, day or night, and report violent crimes. We pay people money to sit at desks and field these calls. We devote considerable infrastructure toward this end, to ensure that there is no question whether anyone ever “did enough.” We have defined “enough.” (h/t)

23rd & Oz!

– You know that at some point the Washington State Patrol hired some expert to design that Impaired Driving Unit logo on their van.

Rugged Individualists.

Comments

  1. 1

    Michael spews:

    Well yay.

    WASHINGTON — A federal judge in New York on Monday threw out a settlement between the Securities and Exchange Commission and Citigroup over a 2007 mortgage derivatives deal, saying that the S.E.C.’s policy of settling cases by allowing a company to neither admit nor deny the agency’s allegations did not satisfy the law.

    The judge, Jed S. Rakoff of United States District Court in Manhattan, ruled that the S.E.C.’s $285 million settlement, announced last month, is “neither fair, nor reasonable, nor adequate, nor in the public interest” because it does not provide the court with evidence on which to judge the settlement.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11.....ti.html?hp

  2. 2

    Pete spews:

    That linked essay on Penn State is terrific. I liked the following paragraph even better:

    It is so commonplace for our mainstream journalist establishment to fail to know what everyone knows. Their purpose doesn’t seem to be answering questions, but rather multiplying them. Unfortunately, they ask tremendously stupid questions, and they fail to elicit meaningful answers to those tremendously stupid questions. Like playing a game of telephone with a team of skeptic aphasics, they whisper a stupid question, and they route it around the squad. The final product emerges so dumb and meaningless that it would stand contrary to common sense as a statement. But of course, it’s never a statement. It’s always a question. In the past, they asked themselves, “Did U.S. officials commit torture?” Now they ask, “Did they do enough?”

    Or almost any question involving the quality of the current crop of Republican presidential candidates.

  3. 3

    spews:

    The 99 percent is winning:

    “I think — and this is crazy, but so are we — that Gingrich is going to have a better time in the general election than Mitt Romney,” said McQuaid. “I think it’s going to be Obama’s 99% versus the 1%, and Romney sort of represents the 1%.”

    http://thinkprogress.org/speci.....e-percent/

    So saith one of the editors of that wingnut newspaper in New Hampshire..

    If the message of the occupiers is getting to someone like that wingnut and even INFLUENCING his decision making, heh…

    It means we’re winning.

  4. 4

    Michael spews:

    Where’s our favorite little Troll that doesn’t get the irony involved in whining about OWS’ers who he claims are a bunch of whiners?

    http://thinkprogress.org/speci.....e-percent/

    Union Leader Declined To Endorse Romney Because He ‘Represents The One Percent’
    By Zaid Jilani on Nov 28, 2011 at 11:55 am
    In a sign of the growing impact the 99 Percent Movement is having, New Hampshire Union Leader publisher Joe McQuaid explained today on Fox News that his paper endorsed Newt Gingrich rather than Mitt Romney for the GOP Presidential nomination because the latter represents the one percent and is politically damaged because of it.

  5. 6

    EndTimes spews:

    Sadly Barney Frank is retiring and will not seek re-election. What an outstanding homosexual leader except when he got his lover/prostitutes 33 parking tickets removed. And of course when he allowed the Mortgage Crisis to happen under his nose.
    Lots of Democrats are throwing in the towel.
    Frank is now the 17th House Democrat to flat-out retire or step aside to seek other office. Republicans have announced seven retirements this cycle. He is also the second House Democrat to announce his retirement in three days and the second Massachusetts Democrat to say he’s stepping down. Rep. Charlie Gonzalez of Texas announced his retirement over the weekend. Rep. John Olver decided a few weeks ago not to run for another term.

    Barney said he didn’t want to campaign hard or be a lame-duck again. Seems like the Democrats can see the writing on the wall. Now Barney can be an even bigger a$$hole than he normally is, as he tries to re-write history so he can have a legacy he doesn’t deserve.
    I’ll miss Barney. He was the best friend a Conservative could ever hope to have because he alienated the Moderates as much as Pelosi does.

  6. 7

    Michael spews:

    Barney Frank did some good stuff and helped some poor folks out, but in the end he was more about Barney Frank than about the good of the nation. I think he made the right choice.

  7. 8

    Michael spews:

    @6
    If you look at the average amount of time that Democrats and Republicans have been in the House, I’m pretty sure you’d find that the Democrats have been there on average quite a bit longer than the Republicans. It makes sense that more of them would be retiring out of the house.

    Things change over time. The house goes back and forth between Republican and Democrat. The current Republican cabal in the house is based on nothing other than anger, anti-intellectualism, and greed. They can get nothing done. Their time in control of the house will be short and they will flame out in a spectacular manner. I’m hoping for a couple of duels to the death.

    Maybe the House Republicans will be replaced by sane, centrist, Eisenhower Republicans. Maybe it will be populist, working class, Democrats that replace them. We don’t and can’t know what will happen next. All we can know is that it will change over time.

  8. 10

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 6, 8: At some point long-sitting Congressmen have to decide if it’s worth the effort of getting re-elected and fighting the battles for another two years. There may be several reasons why they see this as a convenient time to retire: (a) they don’t want to spend the next two years in the minority position; (b) they are satisfied that their seat will be taken over by a younger person from their own party; (c) they have health issues which make continuing in office impractical: (d) they plan on making a long-term campaign for another office; (e) they need the money working in the private sector.

    Assuming that a mere announcement of retirement must mean any one of those things, without more evidence, is illogical.

  9. 11

    rhp6033 spews:

    That picture (link in the initial post) of the WSP vehicle somehow remimds me of the EM-50 Urban Assault Vehicle in the movie “Stripes”.

  10. 12

    rhp6033 spews:

    Of course, you could have do-nothing Congressmen who sit on their rear ends and do only what their party whips tell them to do. For them, serving in Congress is the easiest job available to them, with lots of perks. The probability that they could exhaust themselves trying to accomplish anything in Congress is highly unlikely. (Example: Sheriff “hairspray” Reichart).

  11. 13

    spews:

    And of course when he allowed the Mortgage Crisis to happen under his nose.

    Of course this guy had nothing to do with it:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNqQx7sjoS8

    Salient quote:

    That’s why I’ve challenged the industry leaders all across the country to get after it for this goal, to stay focused, to make sure that we achieve a more secure America, by achieving the goal of 5.5 million new minority home owners. I call it America’s home ownership challenge.

    And let me talk about some of the progress which we have made to date, as an example for others to follow. First of all, government sponsored corporations that help create our mortgage system — I introduced two of the leaders here today — they call those people Fannie May and Freddie Mac, as well as the federal home loan banks, will increase their commitment to minority markets by more than $440 billion. (Applause.) I want to thank Leland and Franklin for that commitment. It’s a commitment that conforms to their charters, as well, and also conforms to their hearts.

    http://georgewbush-whitehouse......617-2.html

    Barney Frank was in the minority in the House Jan 2001 through Dec 2006…

    It’s a tired old right wing tactic to mention the gay man Frank to distract from the role of the Bushies.

  12. 14

    Steve spews:

    Kansas Gov. Brownback apologizes,

    “My staff over-reacted to this tweet, and for that I apologize. Freedom of speech is among our most treasured freedoms. I enjoyed speaking to the more than 100 students who participated in the Youth in Government Program at the Kansas Capitol. They are our future. I also want to thank the thousands of Kansas educators who remind us daily of our liberties, as well as the values of civility and decorum. Again, I apologize for our over-reaction”

    While I don’t agree with Gov. Brownback on politics, I’ve always found the guy to be very likable.

  13. 15

    spews:

    For years now right wing idiots have been bleating about “CRA” and other such bilge..

    Lawrence Lindsay, Bush’s first chief economic adviser, said there was little impetus to raise alarms about the proliferation of easy credit that was helping Bush meet housing goals.

    “No one wanted to stop that bubble,” Lindsay said. “It would have conflicted with the president’s own policies.”

    Today, millions of Americans are facing foreclosure, home ownership rates are virtually no higher than when Bush took office, Fannie and Freddie are in a government conservatorship, and the bailout cost to taxpayers could run in the trillions of dollars.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12.....wanted=all

  14. 17

    spews:

    Maybe the House Republicans will be replaced by sane, centrist, Eisenhower Republicans.

    Michael, those have all but died out… When one like them raises his voice, the crazies call him a “RINO” and other names..

    Politics on the right is crazed mob rule.

  15. 18

    Steve spews:

    Endtimes was a witless poster of scripture on the Bible thread and is now a ding-a-ling wingnut asswipe on this thread. heh. No matter the screen name, a dumbfuck Klown will always come across as being a dumbfuck Klown.

  16. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @1 Last year, Judge Rakoff rejected a similar settlement involving Merrill Lynch and ordered the parties to go to trial. One of Clinton’s better judicial appointments. A Republican judge might have cut the settlements by two-thirds and ordered the records sealed in these cases.

  17. 21

    Partyin' Hard spews:

    To #3: Isn’t there something ironic about referring to the OWS folks as “Obama’s 99%”?

    In 2008, as the Bush Administration was working on the legislation that would effectively steal from the 99% to feed the 1%, I seem to remember Obama (along with McCain) sitting at the table and looking on approvingly. He may not have started the train, but he definitely didn’t try to stop it. And he willingly took the controls once he was elected.

    I’m certainly not saying that Bush and others on the right are innocent, but you can’t tell me that Obama stands for the 99%. Barack Obama is bought and paid for by the 1%. As was his predecessor. As was his opponent.

    This shouldn’t be an issue of Democrat or Republican. They’re equally corrupt. It’s about the “haves” and the “have-nots”. This is a time for the right, the left and the middle to come together. Because it isn’t the 99% the 1% right now. It’s the 45% versus the 45%.

  18. 22

    spews:

    21 – No one is saying “Obama’s 99 percent” save for that right wing newspaper editor in New Hampshire.

    And probably others on the right.

    So typical of the right to lump Obama with the demonization of the day, in this case, the occupiers.

    Add it to the list:

    Obama – Ayers, Khalidi, Wright

    Obama – Socialism, Terrorism

    Obama – Muslim

    You get the point.

  19. 23

    rhp6033 spews:

    “This shouldn’t be an issue of Democrat or Republican. They’re equally corrupt.”

    No, that’s a false equivilency supported by the right wing, to draw attention away from their own agenda.

    Yes, we need to do more to get money out of politics, as is the central aim of the OWS movement. Democrats in Congress aren’t innocent babes in this respect, either. The revolving door between Wall Street, the Fed, and the Treasury has to stop.

    But to compare the Democrats with the Republicans as being “equal” in this respect is like comparing a passengers on the train with the drunken engineer. Yes, they are headed in the same direction at the same speed, but the moral culpability isn’t quite the same.

  20. 24

    Partyin' Hard spews:

    YLB – Sorry, I misread your post at #3. I thought you were in agreement with the quote you linked to.

    I stand by the rest of my post, however. It’s ludicrous that conservatives and liberals spend so much time warring with each other when we should all be focused on the 1%.

  21. 25

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @6 Nothing remarkable about the numbers — 17 of 192 Democratic House members is only 8.8%, which is a normal attrition rate for both parties. Congressmen get old, sick, or simply want to spend more time with their families.

  22. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @14 What’s this, a Republican admitting he was wrong? Maybe there’s hope for the Grand Old Party after all. In Kansas, anyway. The GOP looks like a basket case everywhere else.

  23. 27

    Partyin' Hard spews:

    To #23: Regardless what you think either party’s intentions are, or whether one is more corrupt than the other, we’re left with the same result – two tainted parties.

    You may think that Republicans are actively conspiring against the people, and that Democrats really are trying to do the right thing. It doesn’t change the fact that we’re getting screwed over by the very people we’ve chosen to represent us.

  24. 29

    rhp6033 spews:

    Gee, the Democrat’s biggest problem in 2012 was going to be how to cut Romney down to size. He looks “presidential”, he can advertise his “successful businessman” credentials, and he’s comparatively moderate (at least, compared with the other Republican wingnuts).

    But it seems that the Republicans have pretty much whittled the Romney campaign down to a manageable size. After six years of running for office, he’s finding his consistent 25% being diminished considerably. What has to be galling is that it’s being done (recently) by a philandering ideological whacko who was pushed out of leadership by his own party, has personal and professional ethics issues, and has wealth issues of his own (Tiffany’s accounts, taking a cruise to the Greek islands at an inconvenient time, etc.)

  25. 30

    spews:

    6. EndTimes spews:

    Sadly Barney Frank is retiring and will not seek re-election. What an outstanding homosexual leader except when he got his lover/prostitutes 33 parking tickets removed. And of course when he allowed the Mortgage Crisis to happen under his nose.
    Lots of Democrats are throwing in the towel.
    Frank is now the 17th House Democrat to flat-out retire or step aside to seek other office. Republicans have announced seven retirements this cycle. He is also the second House Democrat to announce his retirement in three days and the second Massachusetts Democrat to say he’s stepping down. Rep. Charlie Gonzalez of Texas announced his retirement over the weekend. Rep. John Olver decided a few weeks ago not to run for another term.

    Barney said he didn’t want to campaign hard or be a lame-duck again. Seems like the Democrats can see the writing on the wall. Now Barney can be an even bigger a$$hole than he normally is, as he tries to re-write history so he can have a legacy he doesn’t deserve.
    I’ll miss Barney. He was the best friend a Conservative could ever hope to have because he alienated the Moderates as much as Pelosi does.

    11/28/2011 at 11:45 am

    This jerk is a homophobic, know-nothing asshole isn’t he?

  26. 31

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 27: Yes, and during WWII the Allied soldiers, German soldat, and countless civilians died, many without any personal or ideological reason to fight one another.

    But that doesn’t change the fact that the Allied forces still had to fight their way through the German armed forces in order to get to the center of power in Berlin.

    Right now, the Republican Party is doing the 1%’s bidding. The Republicans have been captured by the financial elites for longer than I can recount. We have to strip power from them before we can do anything else.

    And the average working stiffs, whether they have voted traditionally Democratic or Republican, need to realize that the Republican propoganda machine IS trying to undermine them by setting them one against the other: white against black, poor against poorer, etc.

  27. 32

    Michael spews:

    @17

    Maybe the House Republicans will be replaced by sane, centrist, Eisenhower Republicans.

    Michael, those have all but died out… When one like them raises his voice, the crazies call him a “RINO” and other names..

    Things change over time. I probable misspoke by calling them “Eisenhower Republicans,” but some form of more moderate voice from the right will comeback.

    In the mean time, I’m looking forward to watching a few good duels on C-Span.

  28. 33

    Zotz sez: High tonite. Low tomorrow. Precipitation is expected. spews:

    @29: And the Rs can’t say they don’t know this cretin.

    Which speaks volumes about who the “Rs” really are and directly to Mr. Hard’s false equivalency.

    O and the Ds break my heart just about everyday. But there’s no comparing them to the perfidy of the Rs.

    Facts of Life for Mr. Hard (and some others) re governing in the United States of America:

    This is a two party system. Which party controls chairs in Congress matters. Until we have a parliamentary system (never), most of us who choose not to waste our votes will be forced to vote for a D or an R.

    If you’ve been paying attention and you aren’t an ignorant cracker or an oligarch, that basically means you have no choice but to vote D.

    The reality is that even an apparent “moderate R” elected (there really is no such person anymore, imo) just enables the R radicals (as we’ve seen in the current congress).

  29. 34

    Michael spews:

    @21

    This shouldn’t be an issue of Democrat or Republican. They’re equally corrupt.

    It’s more like 60/40 with the Dem’s being the lesser of evils. There’s also a difference in that the the Republicans are more often than not guilty through their actions, while the Democrats are more often than not guilty through their inaction.

  30. 35

    spews:

    re 21: “This shouldn’t be an issue of Democrat or Republican. They’re equally corrupt.”

    Obama was on record as being against the Iraq war — and many of the Democrats who went along with it did so out of the necessity (or so it may have seemed)of going along with this corrupt Republican War designed to enrich the Prwsident, vice president, and Republican cronies at the expense of middle class and lower class taxpayers and their children (who fought and dies in the fake war) to enrich corrupt Republicans.

    That’s A LOT more currpt than the Democrats.

    Why are you lying?

  31. 36

    Michael spews:

    Zouch!!!

    Why on earth would someone with a big-old-closet jamb packed with skeletons run for president?

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50.....rman-cain/
    Herman Cain revealed Monday that an Atlanta-area woman is coming forward alleging an “extended” 13-year extramarital affair with the Republican presidential candidate.

    Cain told CNN the woman’s claims are untrue.

    The former Godfather’s Pizza CEO told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer he wanted to “give you a heads up and everyone a heads up” that the woman would be coming forward.

    He said he knows the woman, but denied having had an affair with her.

    “I did not have an affair,” he said. “I have done nothing wrong.”

    According to an Atlanta affiliate of Fox News, the woman, who has been identified as Ginger White, is claiming she and Cain were romantically involved for 13 years.

    “It was pretty simple,” White told the Fox affiliate, which will air its report at 6:00 p.m. Eastern Time. “It wasn’t complicated. I was aware that he was married. And I was also aware I was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship.

  32. 37

    spews:

    re 21: “This shouldn’t be an issue of Democrat or Republican. They’re equally corrupt.”

    Obama was on record as being against the Iraq war — and many of the Democrats who went along with it did so out of the necessity of going along with the Republican generated War Hysteria(or so it may have seemed at the time)of going along with this corrupt Republican War designed to enrich the President, vice president, and Republican cronies at the expense of middle class and lower class taxpayers and their children (who fought and dies in the fake war) to enrich corrupt Republicans.

    That’s A LOT more corrupt than the Democrats.

    Why are you lying? Remember the ORANGE ALERTS everytime the Republicans wanted to distract people or make their electoral chances better by engendering fear.

  33. 38

    spews:

    27. Partyin’ Hard spews:

    To #23: Regardless what you think either party’s intentions are, or whether one is more corrupt than the other, we’re left with the same result – two tainted parties.

    You may think that Republicans are actively conspiring against the people, and that Democrats really are trying to do the right thing. It doesn’t change the fact that we’re getting screwed over by the very people we’ve chosen to represent us.

    11/28/2011 at 1:48 pm

    You REALLY have to be an ideological ignoramus or a partisan hack (or “concern troll”) to believe that the Democrats are in the same wight class when it comes to wrecking environmental, institutional financial accoutability and workers rights regulations. Not to mention gutting voting rights, governmental tranparency, gender equity and I could just go on and on and on.

    Something I’ve noticed about “partied too hard”, the dude just don’t got much of a grasp of history. But them Reee-publicans don’t go much fer that there book larnin’…t’hee hee hee.

  34. 39

    spews:

    re 21: Your equivalency campaign is to distract people from the fact that Republicans, at a time when we are in 2 wars, traitorously block the President and the Democrats in the House and in the Senate, lower taxes in a time of war, and sign solemn pledges to a damn hustler (Grover Norquist) stating that they will never raise taxes and will weaken the government of the people by the people and for the people so they can ‘drown int in the bathtub'(waterboarding.

    Obama should invoke the war powers act and imprison John Boehner and Mitch McConnell and ALL of the politicians who have signed Norquist’s tax pledge.

  35. 40

    spews:

    some form of more moderate voice from the right will comeback.

    When New Deal Dems ruled the roost, that’s the last time when you heard such voices from the right.

    When almost the whole country leaned left.

  36. 41

    Steve spews:

    “Something I’ve noticed about “partied too hard””

    He’s likely just the dumbfuck Klown, now jerking off as a concern troll.

  37. 42

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    (especially for Roger)

    Sadly, the white women can’t leave Herman (The Human Art Project) Cain alone.

    Woman alleges long affair with Cain

    A Georgia businesswoman said Monday she and Herman Cain had a 13-year extramarital affair, an allegation the Republican presidential hopeful denied as strongly as earlier accusations of sexual harassment.

  38. 43

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 42: It wouldn’t surprise me if the allegations are true. Gut I’m expecting a “false flag” campaign at any time from the Caine camp.

    This would involve someone (assisted by the Caine camp) coming forward with allegations of sexual misconduct which could be easily discredited. Then Caine could use that to allege that all the other allegations were similarly false.

    Sometimes such “false flag” operations involve paid operatives or friends of the candidate who are willing to sacrifice their public reputation and credibility for the candidate. More often, they are people with psychological problems who are sought out by campaign operatives, encouraged to envision a suggested scenario as a real event, and then carefully brought to the media’s attention. The advantage of using the last scenario is that once they are labeled as “crazy”, they can be discarded by the candidate’s camp without having to buy their silence over a long period of time, and if they try to tell the “true” story nobody wants to listen anymore.

    What makes me suspicious about this story is (a) the woman isn’t particularly attractive, although she may have been when the alleged affair started; (b) the story was first aired on a Fox News affiliate (although local affiliates aren’t necessarily under the same control by Roger Ailes that the network is); and (c) for once, Caine was out front with this story before it broke.

  39. 44

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    @43 rhp6033,

    I only quickly scanned the news stories, but I read enough to know this is no false flag. Herman, The Human Art Project, Cain appears to have lived a rich romantic life. Why anyone would subject themselves to the microscope of public examination without coming clean first is always a mystery.

    Somebody needs to take Herman, The Human Art Project, Cain off of the grill. He’s been done for weeks now. He’s just burning now.

  40. 45

    Partyin' Hard spews:

    To #38 & #41: Like I said in my post(s), I am not trying to defend Republicans. If you want to argue that Republicans are more corrupt than Democrats, I’m not going to dispute that (even if I might not agree). That isn’t the point I was trying to make.

    The point I was trying to make was actually supportive of the Occupy Wall Street people. I was just trying to say that rather than Republican citizens attacking Democratic citizens (and vice versa), we could be better served by focusing our attention on the system and the politicians that are responsible for this mess.

  41. 46

    spews:

    Heh. That poor zombie cretin (you-know-who)…

    He “liked” a playboy in 1992..

    And he “likes” one now…

    Funny how that works..

  42. 47

    rhp6033 spews:

    Continuation of # 43: An example of a “false flag” operation (actually more of a “lost bag” operation) which was executed particularly well is the purported memo which Dan Rather used as evidence for his 60-minute piece on George Bush’s National Guard service.

    Before that operation, there were persistent rumors and reports that George W. Bush’s service in the Texas Air National Guard wasn’t exactly trimmed with glory. He neglected to take a flight physical which got him grounded, he didn’t show up for his regular drill duty, he got transferred to Alabama so he could work on a political campaign (nobody remembers seeing him show up for drill there), and got permission to leave before his service obligation was up so he could attend Harvard Business School (despite never having better than a C average as an undergraduate at Yale). His commanding officer at the time was widely known to have viewed him as a spoiled rich kid who tried every avenue to get out of doing his duty.

    The problem was, most of Bush’s service records were lost or destroyed – a particularly convenient occurance which happened to corelate with his father’s most influential periods of his career. Most of the key players, including Bush’s commanding officer, were dead.

    So here’s where the “lost bag” came into play. the Bush campaign (Karl Rove) knew that CBS was asking lots of questions and preparing a story on the issue, possibly to contrast George W. Bush’s military records with that of Kerry. Suddenly, a “lost memo” appears – one which closely tracked the stories and appears to confirm Bush’s commander’s opinion of him. It’s an old intelligence trick – if you want to decieve the enemy, give them something they are pre-disposed to believe. That way, they are least likely to inquire too closely into the truth. CBS submits a copy to a document authenticator, who argues that he can’t make any determination from a photocopy. But CBS doesn’t have the original, only the photocopy.

    Rather airs the broadcast and publishes the memo. But within minutes, right-wing websites are attacking the memo, pointing out that the typeface doesn’t match the typewriters which would have been available to the Texas Air National Guard at the time. Instead, it appears to be an IBM Selectric, which didn’t appear ontil a couple of years later.

    Dan Rather’s career was toast. Kerry’s campaign lost a good issue in their campaign, and went on to lose the election. Republicans used it to show that the “liberal media” was lying about Republican candidates. This was particularly satisfying for them, because CBS and Dan Rather had been a thorn in their side since Vietnam and the Watergate scandal. But in one fell swoop, they knocked out four “enemies”: John Kerry, Dan Rather, CBS News, and the mainstream news media in general.

    But the fact was that the underlying issues raised by the story were still probably true. But no one could report that anymore, because the 60-Minute scandal had made everyone afraid to touch the story.

    CBS never revealed their source. Other investigations have said it came from one fellow known to have an agenda against Bush, but whom had been held at arm’s-length by the mainstream media in the absence of hard evidence. But the question still exists – how did the CBS source get the forged memo? Who gave it to the source? Since the CBS source was well known to be a Bush critic, it wouldn’t have been hard for Rove operatives to slip the forged memo to him, with several intermediaries to disguise it’s original source.

    As I said, it has every elements of a “lost bag” operation performed exceptionally well.

  43. 48

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 44: I’m not saying that this IS a false-flag operation. It could very well be a true allegation.

    I’m just warning that this issue has been in the winds just long enough for the Caine camp to attempt such an operation, if they had the expertise and inclination to do so. I’m not sure they do, since they don’t appear to have Karl Rove working for them.

    Rove has been a master of the dirty-tricks campaigns for the last quarter of a century. Caine’s campaign hasn’t exhibited anything like the discipline and experience that was the hallmark of a Rove campaign. But we usually only find out what’s going on behind the curtain of the Republican machine long after the damage has been done.

    In conclusion, I wouldn’t bet on this story. I’d let it play out, of course, but I’d keep it at arm’s-length. Caine’s got enough other credible witnesses to keep the issue in the light.

    If Caine WERE to get the nomination, then there would be a constant clamour for him to release the records of the prior settlements, which he would eventually have to do, and which would then lead to weeks of embarrassing details being played out before the public.

  44. 49

    rhp6033 spews:

    I guess what really bothers me about this new story is that the woman doesn’t have a reasonable explanation as to why she is coming forward at this point. She says she and Caine are “friends”, that she has no hard feelings against him. She’s not trying to protect other women, or make a political statement. All her statements indicate that they had a consensual relationship, so it’s not as if she’s expecting some sort of settlement. Then why would she put herself through the expected nightmare of continuous attacks from the right, and possibly from her friends and family, by coming forward at this time? It’s a bit of a puzzle.

  45. 50

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @24 “It’s ludicrous that conservatives and liberals spend so much time warring with each other when we should all be focused on the 1%.”

    Don’t fret, I may be a Democratic party hack and liberal propagandist today, but when the Civil Warsters take to the streets with their Ruger Mini-14s tomorrow, labels won’t mean anything and the enemy of my enemies is gonna be my friend.

  46. 52

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Cain sought to offer a pre-buttal to an Atlanta FOX affiliate’s report, which is set to air this evening, featuring a woman who alleges she maintained an affair with Cain.”

    (MSNBC)

    Okay, this has already been pretty well warmed over in this thread, but I gotta throw in my 2 cents. Cain maybe could have got away with the first denial. But when half the adult female population of the country says he pawed them, he starts looking like a guy with a spastic zipper. And after 5 or 6 denials, he starts sounding like a pathological liar. It’s pretty obvious what’s been going on. It’s time for him to get an agent and start looking for a reality show gig so he’ll have something to do after the election.

  47. 54

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    @49 rhp6033,

    Regarding what could possibly be the motivation of the woman coming forward … today,

    Hell Hath No Furry… :-D

    I read “Ms. White said she had come forward after seeing how Mr. Cain, a businessman who lives in Atlanta, treated the women who had accused him of harassment.” and I interpret that as she didn’t know he was catting around on his wife AND her.

  48. 55

    Puddybud spews:

    Hey dorky headless lucy,

    You go ahead and do that with your fleabagger piss types.

    From Yahoo –

    Why did Tea parties smell like Flowers but OWS Protests smells like Urine & Weed?

    We all know why!

  49. 57

    rhp6033 spews:

    By the way, it’s been reported over the last two months by aerospace reporters that it may take a decade before Boeing actually starts to make money on the 787-8 program. This may be a little misleading, because it can take the lessons learned on the -8 and use those lessons to make the -9 in a more profitable way.

    Likewise, the Pentagon is reporting that Boeing will likely lose 500 million on it’s 767 tanker program. That, also, is a bit misleading because it only refers to costs under the contract with the Air Force – it doesn’t include the costs associated with several previous designs which were rendered moot by the long delays it experienced before obtaining this contract. In the same story, analysts are saying that Boeing was prepared to lose money as long as it kept Airbus (EADS) from starting a production line on U.S. soil.

    But one of the things which struck me was that the complaint against McDonnel-Douglas, and the reason why it was always struggling, was that although it built good airplanes, it couldn’t seem to make money doing so. That’s why Stonecipher was brought in to McDonnel-Douglas in the first place – he had an engineering degree, but most of his career was in finance (G.E. Capital). It was believed that he could get M-D house in order.

    Stoncipher DID create some profits and boost shareholder’s equity. But he did so at the expense of R&D in the commercial aircraft field. He milked the old designs, profitable as they were, for far too long. But then he found that customers weren’t buying anymore – the designs were obsolete. He tried to push a new aircraft to market – what ultimately became the Boeing 717 – but everyone knew that M-D was on the ropes, and nobody wanted to buy an aircraft from a manufacturer that might not be around after a year or two and unavailable to support the aircraft with spares and repair services.

    Stonceipher tried the same approach at Boeing, and got behind the curve again, and suddenly almost nobody was buying 747’s or 767’s. They needed a new aircraft on the market soon, and only after Stoncipher was ousted did the 787 get approved by the Boeing board.

    But the word throughout Boeing is that the management ranks of Boeing are now dominated by former M-D people. They ignored legacy Boeing employees who tried to tell them that they knew how to build an airplane, and they insisted they knew a better way. Although the 787 has a lot of new technology in it, that doesn’t explain all the delays and the overtime. Most of that can be attributed to two mangement decisions: (a) the decision to our-source virtually everything (including engineering); and (b) the plan to push a lot of airplaines out of the factory before testing and certification was complete.

    The end result was that Boeing machinists and engineers were working thousands of hours of overtime to re-build airplanes which had already rolled out of the factory but where outsourcing deficiencies were discovered, or for which fundamental design changes had to be made which were discovered in the testing stage. It’s awfully hard to make money on an airplane when you are paying machinists to work twenty or thirty hours of overtime a week just to get some airplanes ready for eventual delivery.

    So – has Boeing now inherited the M-D disease, of making good airplanes but being very poor at building them at a profit?

  50. 58

    spews:

    re 55: Which smell did you prefer?

    The ‘baggers probably smelt like flowers because all of the old ‘baggers use baby powder on their asses after changing their Depends™

  51. 59

    Michael spews:

    The death of the suburb part 1:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11.....8;emc=eta1
    DRIVE through any number of outer-ring suburbs in America, and you’ll see boarded-up and vacant strip malls, surrounded by vast seas of empty parking spaces. These forlorn monuments to the real estate crash are not going to come back to life, even when the economy recovers. And that’s because the demand for the housing that once supported commercial activity in many exurbs isn’t coming back, either.

    By now, nearly five years after the housing crash, most Americans understand that a mortgage meltdown was the catalyst for the Great Recession, facilitated by underregulation of finance and reckless risk-taking. Less understood is the divergence between center cities and inner-ring suburbs on one hand, and the suburban fringe on the other.

    It was predominantly the collapse of the car-dependent suburban fringe that caused the mortgage collapse.

    And part 2:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/famil.....GnojJO7sMF

    Suburbia R.I.P.
    The downturn has accomplished what a generation of designers and planners could not: it has turned back the tide of suburban sprawl. In the wake of the foreclosure crisis many new subdivisions are left half built and more established suburbs face abandonment. Cul-de-sac neighborhoods once filled with the sound of backyard barbecues and playing children are falling silent. Communities like Elk Grove, Calif., and Windy Ridge, N.C., are slowly turning into ghost towns with overgrown lawns, vacant strip malls and squatters camping in empty homes. In Cleveland alone, one of every 13 houses is now vacant, according to an article published Sunday in The New York Times magazine.

    The demand for suburban homes may never recover, given the long-term prospects of energy costs for commuting and heating, and the prohibitive inefficiencies of low-density construction. The whole suburban idea was founded on disposable spending and the promise of cheap gas. Without them, it may wither. A study by the Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech predicts that by 2025 there will be as many as 22 million unwanted large-lot homes in suburban areas.

  52. 60

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Shale Gas By The Numbers

    “Production has soared twelvefold since 2000, to 4.9 trillion cubic feet, or a quarter of the country’s total gas output. By 2035 the proportion could rise to half. …

    “Europe’s reserves are 639 trillion cubic feet, compared with America’s 862 ….”

    http://www.economist.com/node/21540256

  53. 61

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    They Called It Socialism Then, Too

    Seventy-five years ago, in the depths of the Depression, FDR put Americans to work building things, including dams. Hoover Dam, TVA, and the Columbia River dams all became (and remain) economic engines. But the Columbia River dams contained a hidden benefit that became crucial a few years later.

    Contrary to what many people believe, the Columbia River dams weren’t built to generate electricity. They were built to put unemployed people to work. Cheap irrigation water and electricity to run irrigation pumps — which made eastern Washington’s agricultural industry possible — were a secondary benefit. No one dreamed that within a few years the survival of our nation would depend on those damsn.

    When World War II came, the U.S. suddenly needed enormous amounts of electricity to produce aluminum to make airplanes and uranium and plutonium for the Manhattan Project. And, thanks to Depression-era “socialism,” it had an enormous surplus of electricity in Tennessee and Washington. TVA power ran the Oak Ridge reactors; Columbia River power ran the aluminum smelters and Hanford reactors. That “socialist” electricity won the war.

    Next time you hear some wingnut call a public works project (now known as “infrastructure”) “socialism,” remind him that he would be speaking Japanese or German if it wasn’t for FDR’s “socialist” make-work dam-building projects.

  54. 62

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 61: One small correction: Boulder Dam was originally authorized in 1928 under a Republican Congress and President, with construction begun in 1931 in the depths of the Great Depression. It was completed in 1937 under President Roosevelt.

    With a tip of the hat to former President Hoover, the dam was re-named Hoover Dam in 1947. Hoover had some good qualities, one of which was the mind of an engineer and an interest in flood control, due in part to his role in coordinating relief efforts for the Mississipi River floods in 1927.

    But if not for Roosevelt and the Democratic Congress, Boulder/Hoover dam might well not have been completed. Republicans in Congress insisted that the reduced tax revenues during the Depression required the federal government to halt all spending on infrastructure improvements, including the Boulder Dam.

    Roosevelt, however, kicked infrastructure spending into high gear with TVA, the Columbia River Dams, the U.S. Highway system, CCC improvements to national parks, the Rural Electrical Cooperative, etc. He understood that there was a vital need for the improvements, and a willing work force – all that was needed was for someone to kick-start the economy by getting the money flowing again. He understood that most Americans didn’t want a hand-out, they wanted jobs.

    The rest of your post is well-taken. One of the reasons the Germans never succeeded in their A-bomb projects was that very early in the process they dismissed the types of processes the Americans used to create fissable nuclear material as being impractical, it used far more electricity than would ever be available to them. This was especially true since electricity consumption had to be rationed between A-bomb research and development, the manufacture of aluminum for airplanes, and other manufacturing of war materials. Indeed, when word of the first A-Bomb over Hiroshima was announced, the German scientists at first didn’t believe it – they considered it impossible to achieve within the next decade. But it was made possible in America, in large part because of Roosevelt’s vision of a system of dams which controlled floods, opened up the Tennessee and Columbia River to commercial navigation, and provided irrigation to the arrid northwest farmlands of Eastern Washington.

  55. 63

    rhp6033 spews:

    In Airline news today:

    American Airlines filed Chapt. 11 today. Expect their first order of business to be to ask the court to void the union contracts. The mix of Airbus and Boeing orders will also be the subject of re-shuffling – assuming that the airline can get continued financing and doesn’t end up being dismantled, with it’s South American routes being the crown jewels in the bidding.

    Air Seychelles has abandoned attempts at long-haul service, and is returning two leased 767’s to ILFC early. Expect that it will also cancel it’s 787-9 orders. Instead, the government is talking to China, middle-eastern airlines (Emerites, etc.) and European airlines to provide long-haul service including Seychelles, in a bid to prop up tourisim there.

  56. 66

    Steve spews:

    @64, 65 Hmm, I’m sure that it’s no coincidence that those are the kind of shallow and insipid comments a stupid goatfucking Klown would post.

  57. 67

    rhp6033 spews:

    Funny how the Republicans consider having financial difficulties to be a disqualifying factor from any public discussion of politics, even if it’s to testify about things that happened to them personally.

    Of course, if you are a one-percenter, you don’t have financial problems. If you find yourself in trouble, Daddy will bail you out.

    But that isn’t necessarily restricted just to the one-percenters. If George W. Bush hadn’t been the son and grandson of influential U.S. sentators, then it’s highly unlikely he would have gotten his first job out of college, or that he would have been rescued from two failing oil ventures by friends of “Daddy”. If he were like the rest of us, he would be struggling to make ends meet and wondering if his 401(K) plan would be enough to keep him and Laura from eating cat food for the next couple of decades.

  58. 68

    rhp6033 spews:

    Of course, when the rich get into financial problems, most of them don’t file personal bankruptcy. They have corporations to shield them from that. No matter how risky the business venture, their corporate shield can usually protect them personally. This assumes, of course, that they follow their lawyer’s advice and don’t pledge their own properties for corporate debt (no matter how strongly the banks insist), and they make sure somebody else in the corporation is responsible for making the payroll tax payments. When things don’t go well, then the corporation can be discarded like a stained jacket, and the burden of the unpaid debt will be absorbed by the employees, vendors, lessors, etc.

    That’s why Donald Trump gets so forceful in insisting that he’s never filed bankruptcy, and anyone who says differently is lying. It’s true that he’s never filed personal bankruptcy. But several of his business ventures, with his name prominently displayed on them, have.

  59. 69

    spews:

    66 – Too bad EndTimes wasn’t raptured up with Camping and his bunch.

    Oh I forgot – that was a load of horseshit – twice this year even!

  60. 70

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    BOOM

    For the second time in two weeks, an Eye-Ray-Nee-An missile or nuclear facility has blown up with a loud bang and cloud of dust. Iran’s state-controlled media didn’t say whether there was a yellow sign in front of the buildings saying, “Caution – Mossad Agents Working”.

  61. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    All I know is that Israeli officials have been dropping hints to U.S. officials that if we didn’t do something about Iran’s nuclear program, they would.

  62. 72

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Cain Admits He Knew Latest Woman

    “Cain reiterated his claim, made yesterday in reaction to the new allegation, that White was simply a friend who he had sought to help financially, and that nothing inappropriate had happened between the two of them.”

    http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com.....g-campaign

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Yeah sure — I wonder if his wife believes this? When the next debate airs, take a close look at Cain to see if he has any black eyes.

  63. 74

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 72: “…When the next debate airs, take a close look at Cain to see if he has any black eyes.”

    How could you tell?

  64. 75

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 72: At the conclusion of this campaign, I would guess that the the odds are significantly in favor of Caine’s wife filing for divorce.

    What’s hilarious is that some Republicans are claiming that since the most recent allegation doesn’t involve harrassment, then it’s a private matter which shouldn’t be part of the discussion of a candidate’s credentials. Funny how they can change tunes so fast, with a straight face, completely ignoring their previous arguments whenever a Democrat gets caught in a sexual pecadillo.

  65. 76

    rhp6033 spews:

    Oh, while you are packed like sardines back in economy class, here’s a glimpse of how others are flying:

    Airlines enlarge gap between elite and economy

    Of course, this really isn’t the one-percenters who are so favored by first-class treatment. The one-percenters have enough money that the regularly fly on executive jets, either ones their family owns outright or, more likely, a corporate jet owned by companies in which they have an interest.

    The advantage of the corporate jet is that they don’t even go to the major terminals. They bypass the security lines, most security screening, airport lounges and waiting areas, and boarding calls. They arrive at the executive airline service gate, and quickly go from a limo onto the airplane. The secuirty screening which consists of someone asking them if they are carrying any weapons, and then waiving them aboard.

  66. 77

    rhp6033 spews:

    Strange headline in the Seattle P.I. today:

    “Public Help Needed in Killing of Gay Man”.

    Now, YOU know what this means, and I know what it means. But in some “red states”, it might be percieved quite differently.

    “Hey, there. I’m Bubba. I brought my shotgun and my dogs are in the car. Now just where do we go hunting for this gay feller?”

  67. 78

    Blue John spews:

    I was listening to Glen Beck on the commute in, and he was spinning the Caine’s latest affair as men shouldn’t ever have dinner with women because women are insane.(his words) A married man cannot have a dinner alone with a woman who is not his wife, because she will misconstrue the man’s intentions.

  68. 79

    Blue John spews:

    What’s hilarious is that some Republicans are claiming that since the most recent allegation doesn’t involve harrassment, then it’s a private matter which shouldn’t be part of the discussion of a candidate’s credentials.

    I don’t remember Monica Lewinsky being harassed by Bill Clinton. I guess, since he was a democrat, it’s OK to have the double standard.

  69. 80

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @7,

    Yes, absolutely right! Barney Frank was just another of the egotistical bastards that keep getting re-elected by dolts in the voting population. He’s a poster boy for term limits!

  70. 81

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 78: “…A married man cannot have a dinner alone with a woman who is not his wife, because she will misconstrue the man’s intentions….” (quoting Glenn Beck).

    Well, let’s rephrase that a bit, and Beck might actually be correct to some extent (a first):

    “…A married man cannot have a dinner alone with a woman who is not his wife, because his wife will miscontrue the man’s intentions.”

  71. 82

    jennifer fox is a stupid lying bitch spews:

    Other than sexual orientation, there isn’t much difference between barney fwank and baghdad jim mcdermott…..career politicians and crooks….both voted in year after year by the same inept piece of society.