Next year in Olympia

Word out of Olympia is that momentum toward putting a high-earners income tax measure on the fall ballot is stalling, despite polling whose fundamentals show that an income tax probably has a better chance of passing than the third of a cent sales tax increase the conventional thinkers prefer.  There just doesn’t seem to be the stomach for it amongst the House leadership, nor enough clamor from well-healed constituency groups to steel their nerves.

“Next year,” income tax advocates are being told.  “Maybe next year.”

Yeah.  Right.

Next year would be the worst time for House Speaker Frank Chopp to see an income tax measure on the ballot, helping to turn out Republican votes in the many suburban swing districts on which much of his majority is built.  2011 doesn’t look much better, and then we’re into a gubernatorial election year in 2012, so you can rule that out as well.  By “next year,” of course, the powers that be mean “some other year,” which really means “never.”

It’s not the mere prospect of losing this battle that so disappoints me—I didn’t go into it reasonably expecting a win—it’s the manner in which the proposal has been summarily rejected by so many in our Democratic establishment.  While the vast majority of folks I’ve approached just seem befuddled at the issue even being raised, I’ve occasionally found myself the target of laughter and eye-rolling and even a little anger.  And I’m not talking about the vile trolls in my comment threads or the Seattle Times ed board; some of the worst of it has come from Democratic elected officials and their closest advisers.

There’s a good chance a high-earners income tax ballot measure would fail, and either way, it would certainly be an uphill fight.  I know that.  I’m not stupid and I’m not naive.  But this year, with this economy and this budget crisis, and with Barack Obama newly elected to the White House, was the perfect year to at least start the conversation about progressive tax reform… the polling proves at least that.  Yet apart from Senate Majority Lisa Brown, a handful of other legislators, and a couple of constituency groups, the Democratic establishment has largely refused to even enter the debate.

With such an unprecedented revenue shortfall to fill, this was never going to be a satisfying legislative session.  But I didn’t expect the process to be just as disappointing as the result.

Comments

  1. 2

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy–
    Seems like it is finally dawning on you that you and your Northwest Division of Lunatic Moonbats & Atheist Progressives are nothing more than:
    USEFUL IDIOTS!!

    Too Damn Funny.

  2. 3

    Jon spews:

    Personally, I would have rather seen a bolder proposal to reduce B&O taxes & property taxes, and replace them with an income tax and carbon taxes. It’s time to start taking the 2002 Gates Commission recommendations seriously.

  3. 4

    Crusader spews:

    It’s time to throw the liberals out of Olympia once and for all. Hopefully people in this state are waking up to the disaster that is one-party Democrat rule.

  4. 5

    Tim Eyman, I-1033 co-sponsor spews:

    Polling Likely Sinks WA Tax Proposal

    Austin Jenkins, Olympia Correspondent, Public Radio Northwest News Network, April 18, 2009 http://crosscut.com/blog/crosscut/18928/

    In a major development in the Washington legislature, majority Democrats in the Senate are backing off a plan to put a tax measure on the November ballot. That’s because of a new poll that shows the public’s appetite for taxes is lukewarm at best.

    The poll was commissioned by hospitals and other healthcare groups. It finds that more than fifty percent of Washington voters might go for a temporary sales tax increase to prevent cuts to healthcare. But support is soft and not enough to guarantee success at the polls this fall. As a result, Senate Democrats met Friday evening and decided not to move forward with a sales tax – or alternatively – an income tax proposal this year. A spokesman for the Washington State Senate Democrats says: “The caucus decided that any revenue package would likely be perceived by the public as making the economic recession worse so there’s no support for sending a ballot measure to the public to raise taxes.” The sudden turnaround came on the same day House Democrats held a hearing on a proposal to ask voters to raise Washington’s sales tax by three-tenths-of-one-percent for healthcare. The sponsor of that proposal – Representative Eric Pettigrew, D-Seattle – says despite the new poll he plans to continue pushing his measure in the House.

    I’m Austin Jenkins in Olympia.

    Copyright 2009 KUOW

    – END –

    More reporting on it:
    http://blogs.thenewstribune.co.....t_bode_wel
    l_for_tax_hike_s

  5. 6

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Dear Algore and his band of KLOWNS–

    Australia Antarctic Division glaciology program head Ian Allison said sea ice losses in west Antarctica over the past 30 years had been more than offset by increases in the Ross Sea region, just one sector of east Antarctica.

    “Sea ice conditions have remained stable in Antarctica generally,” Allison said.

    Ice core drilling in the fast ice off Australia’s Davis Station in East Antarctica by the Antarctic Climate and Ecosystems Co-Operative Research Center shows that last year, the ice had a maximum thickness of 1.89m, its densest in 10 years.

    The jig is up. Your idiotic blathering about the world coming to an end are proven FALSE!
    Then again, it was always about a Socialist power grab, wasn’t it!

  6. 7

    Green Thumb spews:

    In my graduate work I had a poli sci professor who was as liberal as they come. He was a highly regarded observer of Washington politics who had written a number of excellent monographs on Washington state. This professor spent a fair amount of time in class presenting the arguments for an income tax. However, he was also an honest scholar, and he ended his lectures by sadly acknowledging that an income tax would not be passed in his lifetime. That professor is now retired and in his late 70s.

    I wish this were the year for an income tax. I don’t think it is. Now, perhaps it might have been more likely if the governor hadn’t boxed herself in with the no-new-taxes pledge. But even if she hadn’t, I think that the Democratic majority is at least as fragile as it was in 1992-93. Indeed, perhaps even more so given the inevitable backlash against whatever the Ds do to balance the budget. Recall how badly the Republicans were punished in the aftermath of the last big fiscal crisis in the early 1980s.

    As someone who works in state government, I think the key thing that needs happening right now is to 1) get a budget passed without the gridlock that brought California close to default, and 2) start educating the public on the underlying choices they need to make.

    There is no hope in passing an income tax as long as so many people hold such simplistic or downright incorrect assumptions about how government is run and paid for. It’s really quite alarming how stupid our political discourse has become. Unfortunately, we may need media reform before we get tax reform.

  7. 8

    correctnotright spews:

    @5: Klyniocal

    Thanks for showing us you know nothing about science. The more you put out on global warming – the more apparent it becomes that you know next to nothing and cherry pick a few data points that support your warped view.

    The entire data set and almost all the relevant scientists say global warming is happening and that it is anthopomorphic and a few stupid rightwing denialists say it is not….now who do I believe?

    Sceince deniers, flat-earthers, global warming deniers, evolution deniers all fit in the same know-nothing camp. They are genetically unable to analyze data and come to an appropriate conclusion because of their preexisting bias.

    The same goes for income taxes on the rich – the gap between rich and poor in this country is at the highest level since 1929 – does that date ring a bell.

    the United States has the highest inequality and poverty rates after Mexico and Turkey, and the gap has increased rapidly since 2000, the report said.

  8. 10

    Steve spews:

    @5 Ian Allison?

    Those who hate science, like our simplistic Mr. Klynical, who’s mama rode dinos, really shouldn’t delve into science looking for Puddyfactoids to support their failed political ideology. It only reveals them to be as shallow and insipid as we’ve always thought them to be.

    http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45629

    A couple of snippets:

    “MELBOURNE, Feb 2 (IPS) – Although Antarctica has hitherto been believed to be the only continent to buck the global trend of warming, new findings by United States-based scientists indicate that the coldest continent is indeed hotting up in a similar way to the rest of the world.”

    “The thing you hear all the time is that Antarctica is cooling and that’s not the case. If anything it’s the reverse, but it’s more complex than that. Antarctica isn’t warming at the same rate everywhere, and while some areas have been cooling for a long time the evidence shows the continent as a whole is getting warmer,” says Eric Steig, a professor of earth and space sciences at the University of Washington.”

    “Ian Allison, a glaciologist with the Australian Antarctic Division – part of the Australian government’s department of the environment, water, heritage and the arts – says that Antarctica, along with its polar opposite, the Arctic, are earth’s “heat sinks”.

    “They’re important because of the feedback processes that can occur,” he says, adding that the warming identified in the new research can be observed in the melting of Antarctica’s sea ice.

    “If you get warming and the sea ice melts then you lose what is a highly reflective surface. Then the dark ocean, which absorbs more sun, warms up more and more ice disappears and you get a positive feedback,” he says.

    Allison told IPS that he is not overly surprised by the findings of Steig’s team.

    While accurate information on temperature patterns in West Antarctica has been hampered by a paucity of weather stations, the adjacent “Antarctic Peninsula has been one of the areas on earth that has been warming the greatest,” he says.

    “It was always a bit strange,” adds Allison.

    The Australian scientist believes that the new findings now provide for a far more complete view of the world’s changing climate.”

    It must really suck to be Mr. Klynical, to be so willfully ignorant and all, not to mention his having to deal with his narcissistic personality disorder. It must be a tough row to hoe.

  9. 11

    correctnotright spews:

    In the United States, the richest 10 percent earn an average of $93,000 — the highest level in the OECD. The poorest 10 percent earn an average of $5,800 — about 20 percent lower than the OECD average.

    Wealthy households not only are widening the gap with the poor, but are leaving middle-income earners further behind in countries such as the United States

    Link:http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....gap22.html

    @8 Troll: California is hard hit because of record unemployment (from the Bush recession) and the overcharged housing market. You need to stop oversimplifying everything down to your third grade level.

  10. 12

    correctnotright spews:

    @9: Steve
    Thanks for the instant retort on the global warming deniers – they cherry-pick out of the same scientific study that shows global warming….and claim the opposite conclusions of the original authors.

    Yes, you caught Klynical being intellectually dishonest and vapid again. A regular person who was cuaght like that would go hide their head in shame after promulgating such incredible BS and being totally wrong (again). But Klynical is no ordnary troll – she will be back with more BS and claim victory over the “liberals”. Klynical is a legend in her own mind.

    After a while I tire of their amusing BS that can usually be disproved by a simple google search – a search that is seemingly too difficult for them to perform to verify the crap that comes over the right wing sites.

  11. 13

    Freddie Mercury spews:

    Did anybody else catch that photo of Lisa Brown in yesterday’s Seattle Times? She looks like she has a ravenous appetite for taxes, among other things.

  12. 15

    spews:

    @10, I don’t think it’s any more simplistic of me to say income taxes solves nothing than for others to say income taxes solves budget shortfalls.

  13. 17

    Steve spews:

    Thank you, Troll. I don’t blame you at all for wanting to put some distance between you and that crazy narcissistic mofo’ known as Mr. Klynical.

  14. 19

    Steve spews:

    @17 Fugly? Oh, you’re talking about Lisa Brown. For a moment there I thought you were talking about Puddy’s mama. Puddy mama’s so fugly, she went swimming in Neah Bay and Indians started throwing harpoons at her!

  15. 20

    Mark1 spews:

    ‘I’ve occasionally found myself the target of laughter and eye-rolling and even a little anger.’

    I would think you’d be used to that by now Goldy.

    People would take your income tax crusade a bit more seriously if you were gainfully employed and actually earned an income of your own. Until then, all your views on the matter whether it be on the “high earners” or a general Statewide income tax are hypocritical at best. Good luck.

  16. 21

    John spews:

    Goldy, if you think a state income tax is the answer why don’t you support a city of Seattle income tax? That way the Seattle liberal nutjobs can see if it really works before forcing it on the rest of the state.

  17. 24

    correctnotright spews:

    @14 Troll: A thoughtful and insightful comment would go like this:

    An income tax is much more stable than a sales tax – but even an income tax would be hit some by this recession. The real problem with basing much of the taxing on a sales tax (and the B and O tax) is that in bad times – when the state needs more resources to deal with the problems – the sales tax plummets since no one is buying anything. There fore the state income drops precisely when it is needed. This has happened a number of times in Washington state.

    A trite and simplistic comment goes like this:

    I don’t think it’s any more simplistic of me to say income taxes solves nothing than for others to say income taxes solves budget shortfalls.

  18. 25

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    John @ 20–
    Excellent question for the GoldMeister.
    So Goldy…would you support a City of Seattle and King Kounty Income Tax?
    If not, why not??

  19. 26

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    John–
    I like the idea of using Seattle to test drive that income tax.
    Can you imagine the flight of the millionaires and the plunge in mansion prices??

    Too Damn Funny!

    But you see, Goldy is obsessed with screwing folks that really work for a living in the rural areas.
    Goldy only has callouses on his right hand from jerkin’ off.

  20. 27

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    My oh my Kountry Klubber Steve-o (who likes to fantasize about his pretend black friends)

    A paper to be published soon by the British Antarctic Survey in the journal Geophysical Research Letters is expected to confirm that over the past 30 years, the area of sea ice around the continent has expanded.

    KABLAMMMMMMMMMMO!

  21. 28

    seabos84 spews:

    Goldy – your chickenshits are coming home to roost. Maybe you forgot your support of Cantwell, Cantwell cuz …

    YAWN … if we don’t elect a sell out and break our asses for a sell out and give money to a sell out … YAWN … we’ll have some bonafide fascist toady elected!

    Well guess what Goldy, your bullshit conventional wisdom of 2006 is the same ol bullshit conventional wisdom which has been the … ha ha ha ha … ‘foundation’ this party of chickenshits and sell outs since the rise of the DLC in the 80′s!

    OF COURSE our Olympian pipsqueaks ain’t gonna do shit but chicken out and sell out —–

    WE KEEP VOTING FOR AND SUPPORTING CHICKENSHITS AND SELL OUTS!

    The pathetic statements I’m reading from Democratic ‘leaders’ in Olympia SHOULD have been written by Karl Rove and Roger Ailes, EXCEPT they did such a brilliant job of getting US to accept their world view that now WE constrain ourselves with the world view of fascists!

    The people who STOLE the most while wrecking the middle class are going to have to sell 1 of the 3 yachts … and we’re all on our hands and knees in the streets, twisting our hats in our hands, hoping master doesn’t get mad at us, and forget to let us pick through his trash for dinner!

    ugh.

    rmm.

  22. 29

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @20, 21, 22, 24, 25, and 26: And of course you clowns are all back from your 3rd tour of duty in Iraq, and voluntarily send more revenue to the government to pay for the Dept. of Defense, right? No?

    Why am I not suprised?

    You might also want to look up under what current authority would it be allowed for the citizens of Seattle to institute an income tax.

    Uh. There is none.

    Smarter trolls, please.

  23. 31

    Puddybud, Have You Said Thank You Today... spews:

    ProudASSed: You all Kontrol King Kounty.

    Seattle/King Kounty Inkome Tax.

    Get ‘er done!

  24. 32

    Winkydink, hey, it's April spews:

    re 6: Right. And 2008 was the wrong year for a black president.

    When a state income tax comes to this state, it’s a sure bet you won’t have anything to do with it.

  25. 33

    Winkydink, hey, it's April spews:

    re 26: Did they give the paper to you to review prior to publication? That’s a mighty thin thread you are clinging to in trying to make your point.

    You sneer and tell us we are all wet about global warming because of a paper that you think might be published?

  26. 34

    Steve spews:

    @26 Mr. Klynical keeps posting this lie, I debumk it, he goes to another thread and posts it again. Tiresome, Mr. Klynical, very tiresome.

    http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45629

    “Although Antarctica has hitherto been believed to be the only continent to buck the global trend of warming, new findings by United States-based scientists indicate that the coldest continent is indeed hotting up in a similar way to the rest of the world.

    “The thing you hear all the time is that Antarctica is cooling and that’s not the case. If anything it’s the reverse, but it’s more complex than that. Antarctica isn’t warming at the same rate everywhere, and while some areas have been cooling for a long time the evidence shows the continent as a whole is getting warmer,” says Eric Steig, a professor of earth and space sciences at the University of Washington.

    Steig was lead author of a paper published in January in the science journal Nature which documents Antarctica’s warming.

    While the consensus regarding the southern continent had previously been that only the Antarctic Peninsula had been warming – both of the Antarctic’s two other geographic regions, East and West Antarctica, were believed to be cooling – Steig’s team of researchers combined previously available data from weather stations with information from satellites.”

    As for the scientist Mr. Klynical refers to on the other threads, Ian Allison, the article say:

    “Ian Allison, a glaciologist with the Australian Antarctic Division – part of the Australian government’s department of the environment, water, heritage and the arts – says that Antarctica, along with its polar opposite, the Arctic, are earth’s “heat sinks”.

    “They’re important because of the feedback processes that can occur,” he says, adding that the warming identified in the new research can be observed in the melting of Antarctica’s sea ice.

    “If you get warming and the sea ice melts then you lose what is a highly reflective surface. Then the dark ocean, which absorbs more sun, warms up more and more ice disappears and you get a positive feedback,” he says.

    Allison told IPS that he is not overly surprised by the findings of Steig’s team.

    While accurate information on temperature patterns in West Antarctica has been hampered by a paucity of weather stations, the adjacent “Antarctic Peninsula has been one of the areas on earth that has been warming the greatest,” he says.

    “It was always a bit strange,” adds Allison.

    The Australian scientist believes that the new findings now provide for a far more complete view of the world’s changing climate.

    The final report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), released in 2007, noted that in each continent besides Antarctica, greenhouse gas emissions stemming from human activities were the likely cause of warming.

    Allison told IPS that this “wasn’t done for Antarctica because there wasn’t sufficient data available.”

    He argues that with the new findings, Antarctic warming as a result of greenhouse gases can now also be included with the other continents.

    “For every continent except for Antarctica, the only way you can fit the observed temperature [changes] is having enhanced greenhouse gases,” he says.

    The results of the research “show a warming that is consistent with the others. If the other continents need greenhouse gases to explain [temperature increases] then I would extend it to Antarctica as well,” says Allison.”

    Having had this lie of his shoved up his ass three times today, Mr. Klynical will no doubt slither on over to another thread and post it again.

  27. 35

    proud leftist spews:

    Though I love our trolls, we must bash them harder. They continue to think their opinions count, so we must lovingly kick them in the balls to teach them that they are full of horseshit. This hard love stuff is hard to practice, but it is what we must do.

  28. 36

    Steve spews:

    I never tire of bashing them, though I do tire of hearing the same old infantile bullshit.

    And, of course, there’s Puddy, reduced to endlessly repeating his comic book KABLAAAMO’s while he’s jerking-off after having his ass handed to him yet again. How fucking pathetic!

  29. 37

    Winkydink, hey, it's April spews:

    re 34: Spare the rod, spoil the troll. It’s for their own good.

    I wonder if Cyn thinks that man has anything to do with smog in big cities.

  30. 38

    proud leftist spews:

    36: “I wonder if Cyn thinks that man has anything to do with smog in big cities.”

    You must be kidding. Humans don’t fart exhaust, cars do. So, the causal relationship could not be more clear–cars are to blame for smog, not humans. Why do you greenie people not get that?

  31. 39

    drool spews:

    In Olympia they are saying people will die without more money.

    Shall we name the fish on the Eastgate bridge after children that will die….how about engraving their names on the retaining wall art for the third runway….or on the art at Brightwater.

  32. 40

    Winkydink, hey, it's April spews:

    re 38: Art and an attractive environment bring tourists and conventions — which bring jobs and money. If you cannot look upon the brass fish and appreciaste them for what they are, then think of them as part of an economic engine.

    You might also inquire as to why private health insurers invest in expensive art instead of using that money to insure their clients.

    And that spittle bucket under your chin is unneccessary, also. Your shirt has absorbent qualities and you could send the x-tra money to your private insurer so they can buy more Rembrandt’s. But it’s OK — ’cause it’s private.

  33. 41

    Piper Scott spews:

    Here’s an idea…

    How about a ballot measure to reduce the sales tax? Or taxes in general? Wonder what the polling on that would be…especially after the public learns of the treacle and waste and complete ignoring of budget-cutting ideas by the Washington Legislature a/k/a The Gang that Couldn’t Pass Straight Laws.

    Stupid spending…ignoring performance audit results…pandering to special interests (who runs this state? The people or the SEIU?)…shell-game budget machinations…

    What more do you want?

    Those 5,000 who attended Olympia’s Tax Day Tea Party – Push Back No Tax rally and the 3,000 plus who attended Spokane’s all pretty much had the idea: Stop the out-of-control-spending and quit with the phony $9 billion deficit talk – ain’t no deficit…just higher spending proposals in the budget.

    How about we freeze spending for the next biennium at the levels for the current one? Then prioritize spending on the most important government programs, rather than considering them all of equal value? How about some guts and leadership from Lisa Brown, Frank Chopp, Geoff Simpson, Lynn Kessler and all the gang to respect the wallets and purses of the taxpayers rather than look at them as a fount of many blessings?

    “A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have.” Thos. Jefferson.

    Interesting that the party claiming Jefferson as one of its founders never wants to talk about his theories of government. But, then again, the big-spenders on the other side of the aisle aren’t much better.

    Less government = more freedom and liberty.

    The Piper

  34. 42

    Steve spews:

    @40 “Less government = more freedom and liberty”

    After witnessing what happened under the Bush presidency and the Republican congress, why would anybody in their right mind believe that Republican governance would ever lead to the above? You see, Piper, there’s the talk, and there’s the walk. We’ve seen the Republican walk. We can now ignore the talk from the right. Fool me once, fool me twice, er, whatever.

  35. 43

    Teabaggers are astroturf tools spews:

    40 – All hail the tool of the gated community crowd. Modest expense account and Olympia condo bought and paid for.

  36. 44

    Piper Scott spews:

    @41 & 42…Know-Nothings All…

    No condo for me – Apparently you haven’t followed the exploits of the Lil’ Blue House on Facebook? And no gated community…

    Note, I didn’t endorse a Republican or Democrat government – my premise is LESS government, and I don’t care who’s in office. I oppose the expansion of government – PERIOD.

    Interesting, however, that Know-Nothing@41 explicitely endorses my premise – he just rejects the hypocrisy of Republicans preaching one thing while practicing another.

    The foundational truth he must espouse, then, is that he would support a party that espoused smaller government if they were consistent in their programs and policies.

    Welcome, then, to the right side of the argument.

    Still, Know-Nothing@42 is a cliche monster – even his moniker evidences his ignorance. A tool of the DailyKus/MoveOn/SorosPuppet crowd…in other words, a shining example of the HA Happy Hooligans. And your fetish for calling yourself a sexually explicit act speaks for itself.

    Hope your medical plan includes mental health benefits – If so, use them and soon.

    I think, act, speak, and fend for myself – I have no master save God. Those who know me mano y mano can testify to that…

    Interesting that at our rallies, no property is damaged, the police like us, we clean up after ourselves (you see the pics of the pig-sty-like mess after the inaguration???), and no illegal substances get consumed.

    The Piper

  37. 45

    Teabaggers are astroturf tools spews:

    Did not say you lived in a gated community. Said you were A TOOL of the gated community crowd. Who signs your check? Follow the money – if you dare.

    The 8000 cranks you touted call themselves teabaggers and we all have a great laugh at their expense. Tout their numbers all you want – it’s the million plus voters who are relevant.

    Soros? Surely you jest – how are those Walton and Scaife greenbacks treating you? God? Not buying that in a million years – the likes of Scaife and Walton are your true masters.

  38. 46

    Steve spews:

    @43 Welcome to the right side? Whoever said I was of the left? You assume that because I don’t buy into the Republican bullshit. You assume too much. Perhaps you prefer the simplicity of the left-right paradigm.

    You do not refute my point about the Republican party’s track record of bigger government, the talk versus the walk. You fail to suggest just what party there is on the so-called right who’s candidates I should vote for. Who is it, Piper? I hear nothing from you. Instead, you indulge in calling me names. I take it that’s all you’ve got.

    I’ll vote for Democrats, thank you. With Dems I get a few problems. With the party of the right I get a collapsed economy, staggering deficits, no accountability, a divided nation and misbegotten war, not to mention ignorant science-hating end-timers like Mr. Klynical and Puddy, who think it’s OK to destroy God’s creation because God’s going to bail them out at the last minute with a rapture. They, like you, assume too much. No thanks.

  39. 47

    mark spews:

    PIPER, You summed it up. Conservatives have
    class and liberals have NO CLASS and that
    is in all areas of life. Excellent.

  40. 48

    correctnotright spews:

    @43: Less government worked well when?

    When we failed to regulate the banks and brought down the world economy with us? The European banks only suffered if they trusted our AAA investments (again lack of regulation) – their banks were regulated so that crap could not happen in Europe.

    When we failed to regulate the safety of our food?

    When we fail to regulate the out of control health care costs? We pay more for health care than any other country on earth and we get….lousy health, somewhere near Slovakia.

    Of course, I never heard Piper complainin’ much when we wasted over a trillion dollars on Iraq on an unecessary war in a country that was never a threat to us.

    And where was Piper’s indignation about too much governemnt when we spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined? But less on education…

    And where was the anger about boondogles for the military: Haliburton no-bid contracts in Iraq, Blackwater security that fires on Iraqis, government contractors getting paid 10X what the military gets and F-22s the Pentagon says we don’t need?

    That is either a selective vision of less government by a myopic observer or deliberate hypocrisy.

  41. 49

    X'ad spews:

    Ah, yes of course. Piper’s a really a class act, as well as his compatriot buffoon, KKKlynical.

    Absolutely.

    My admiration for these swine knows no bounds.

  42. 50

    Steve spews:

    @48 My contempt for them knows no bounds. Piper’s as evil as any of them. And what’s with these guys and their pathological narcissism? Didn’t anybody ever tell them that delusions have a lousy future?

  43. 51

    Piper Scott spews:

    @47…CnR…

    Here’s where we fundamentally differ…

    I’m one of those who believes government, particularly federal government, spending on most social programs is bad policy. And, as you well know, I was, am, and will continue to be a strong supporter of the Iraq War.

    When it comes to spending on education, I’d like to see some results other than negative ones. It seems the more we spend, the less we get.

    Since I regard large, intrusive government as antithetical to the apotheosis of individual human liberty, I pretty much dislike new or larger government programs en masse. The whole idea of the nanny state is, then, abhorent.

    It’s fascinating that the HA Happy Hooligans are virulent in condemnation of the private sector but gives a complete pass to the lunacy of government incompetence, bureaucracy, waste, fraud, mismanagement, and more…except in the Pentagon, which is regarded simply as an extension of large defense contractors.

    In Washington state, for examply, government routinely wastes millions without compunction or even the slightest tinge of anxiety. And the Legislature gives the agencies and departments, for the most part, a complete pass.

    Take Washington State Ferries, an agency with which I have some familiarity. Not only did WSF ignore State Auditor Brian Sonntag’s (a Democrat, BTW) performance audit, it continues in its profligate ways.

    Spending on the inappropriate-for-the-run Island Home design with Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen running all over Whidbey Island promising her constituents three more of that class for a run that accounts for a mere three percent of WSF total runs is appalling.

    It does, however, represent government in action. But the attitude that produces this isn’t unique to WSF. I hear similar things from people inside any number of other agencies. Millions – perhaps billions? – wasted, yet they continue to have their hand out demanding more.

    And we’re supposed to be gleeful that the Legislature lusts in its heart to bump taxes and create new ones?

    The HA Happy Hooligans genuflect at the altar of big, nanny-state government. Blind obedience, and lemming-like obsequiousness without regard to what’s happening to our ability to live freely, create wealth and own property, and not have any bureaucrat looking over our shoulders 24/7/365 micromanaging our lives.

    Take Dick’s…Used to be the best fries in the Western World until King County or the City of Seattle (can’t remember which) imposed the foolish fat standards that forced the drive-in chain to change cooking oil, which resulted in the fries loosing their flavor.

    Whatever happened to adults making their own decisions and government staying the blankety-blank-blank out of our lives?

    The left is hell-bent-for-leather to exalt abortion on demand, which results in the death of a living thing, to holy status, but we’re not allowed to choose how we want our French fries cooked? Gimme a break!

    As the size of government grows, so does the size of the problem. Think about it…

    The Piper

  44. 52

    Steve spews:

    Federal government grew larger and more intrusive under Republican rule. Federal debt grew by trillions. A new drug program. The Department of Homeland Security. Welfare for corporations. The cost of a misbegotten war off the books. A cratered economy. Piper says that as the size of government grows, so does the problem. He makes a point, but not in the way he intends. Under right-wing rule, goverment did grow, as did our nation’s problems. Just look at the disaster they’ve left us with.

    Piper comes here to whine about french fries, education, unions, HA Happy Hooligans giving a pass to government growth, and ferries.

    Tell me Piper, who is it we should vote for? The failed and disintegrating Republicans? Or do you have a new party in mind? Say, one that represents the extreme fringe of the right? A party comprised of those who advocate for revolution and secession? The party of teabagging fools?

    No thanks. We’ve heard the talk, we’ve seen the walk. The right-wing lies no longer sell. We know what to expect from right-wing governance. America has had enough of the likes of you. Refer to the results of the 2006 and 2008 elections as proof.

  45. 53

    Piper Scott spews:

    @51…Steve (A Blue-Ribbon Know Nothing)…

    Vote for those who pledge to cut government, lower taxes, eliminate programs – then hold them accountable for results.

    It’s that simple…

    No bailouts, no federal stimulus, no so-called “jobs” programs (if you’re not a highway construction worker, you’re SOL) – if you slashed marginal tax rates and eliminate the tax on profits, you’d see the economy grow.

    Want real jobs created? Jobs that make products and provide services that people actually want? Then let the market allow investment to go to those businesses.

    And quit with the hackneyed political rhetoric…Your Johnny-one-not themes are boring.

    The Piper

  46. 54

    YLB spews:

    The HA Happy Hooligans, blah, blah, blah,

    50 – quoting the execrable pudge:

    You’re a liar.

  47. 55

    Steve spews:

    Sigh! More namecalling. You bring your simplistic Johnny-one-note themes here and accuse me of doing that very thing? Eliminate tax cuts for corporations. Speaking of boring. And so predictable. Is that all you have to bring?

    Here’s what you really bring to the table. Torture. Misbegotten war. Huge government. Trillions in debt. A cratered economy. Bailouts. Calls for revolution and secession. Voter suppression. DOJ run by Liberty University. Drug programs for the benefit of mega-pharms. Tax cuts for the rich. Spying on Americans. An attack on American soil by terrorists. Failure to capture Bin Laden. That’s your party’s record. You cheerleaded them every step of the way.

    Last, you think you’re better man than me? Here’s a clue, Piper. You’re not.

  48. 56

    YLB spews:

    Here’s “leadership” the Pooper can believe in:

    George, the idea that carbon dioxide is a carcinogen, that it’s harmful to our environment is almost comical. Every time we exhale, we exhale carbon dioxide. Every cow in the world, uh, well, you know when they do what they do, you’ve got more carbon dioxide.

    Guess what ignorant fool said that?

    Republicans: the clown party..

  49. 57

    Seattle Jew, a true liberal spews:

    @ 41 Piper ..

    ““A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have.” Thos. Jefferson.”

    Horseturds. For one thing, Tom wrote well. Try Gerbil Ford .. who delivered this homily to Congress. Of course in them old days our presidetns were semi,iterate so unlike Barry and To, Gerbil, Ronnie, and the Georges did well to read what others wrote.

  50. 58

    Steve spews:

    @57 What? Piper resorted to lying?? Who’d of thought?

    Similar to Puddy, Piper gets his ass handed to him so he resorts to lying and namecalling, smugly declares victory, then leaves.

  51. 59

    Steve spews:

    Is there anybody here more full of himself than Piper? Well, besides Puddy and Mr. Klynical?

  52. 60

    Jonny Baloney spews:

    People in WA won’t accept an income tax until a massive PR campaign (read: privately funded and driven) shows benefits to their wallets. Legislators can’t move on an income tax because — and you know this is true — there’s no public support. I know an initiative can’t change the state Constitution, but a grassroots drive (with concurrent reduction in sales and property taxes) is the only way to go.