MoveOn targets Reichert (and other news…)

So much to blog on, so little time. So I thought I’d do a little roundup post to point you to a handful of issues and articles that have piqued my interest.

MoveOn.org targets Reichert with anti-war ad
Our very own Rep. Dave Reichert is one of six vulnerable House Republicans being targeted by MoveOn.org with a TV ad campaign questioning their lack of support of an exit strategy from Iraq. 18 ads will run in Reichert’s 8th Congressional District this week on CNN.

“These are districts where the incumbent doesn’t support an exit strategy to bring the troops home and the challenger does,” said Tom Matzzie, MoveOn’s Washington director.

In other Reichert news, he just voted to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Evergreen Politics interview Gov. Gregoire
Lynn Allen of Evergreen Politics has posted another one of her excellent interviews, this time with Gov. Christine Gregoire. Lynn didn’t have as much time with the governor as she had hoped for, but she managed to get in some good questions, like the one addressing perceptions of Gov. Gregoire’s legitimacy:

CG: Well, they spent six months challenging the legitimacy of that election. The only result was a few more votes for me after lots of money spent on both sides. I believe we won that election from the beginning. With as much money as was spent to question the legitimacy of the election, I can see how people would be concerned and frustrated. We need to go beyond it now. I’m in office. We have a state to run. We need to run it. I think we’re getting phenomenal things done. I am looking forward to the new year. This issue will get behind us. I think that the citizens are concerned about what is important in their lives – health care, security, jobs, and education for their kids. These are difficult issues and I’m prepared to deal with them.

The citizen in me is happy to see the governor focused on her job… but the political strategist in my wishes she would pay more attention to correcting the public’s misconceptions about the 2004 election.

Onward Christian soldiers… to Olympia
State Rep. John Ahern (R-Spokane) was back on his Christmas Warhorse last Friday, attacking the blatantly offensive and anti-Christian phrase “Happy Holidays.” The Olympian has the story, and includes some good quotes from a prominent local blogger:

“It’s not a big deal. There’s nothing new this year,” said Goldstein, noting that the Capitol tree has been called the Kids Holiday Tree for more than a decade. “They are making something out of nothing right now, but with all the media tools they have at their disposal, people don’t realize it’s nothing.”

Goldstein said the danger of the debate is that it legitimizes intolerance of different religious groups, including Jews, Muslims and nonbelievers.

Man… that David Goldstein guy is sharp. Somebody should give him his own radio show.

Finkbeiner goes both ways
When Bill Finkbeiner was a state representative (and a Democrat) he twice voted in support of legislation extending state anti-discrimination laws to cover sexual orientation, but as state senate minority leader (and a Republican) last year, he held his caucus firm in opposing it. Now that he’s resigned his leadership position, the Seattle Times’ Andrew Garber speculates about which way Finkbeiner might vote when the bill is reintroduced in the coming session.

“The X factor will be Sen. Finkbeiner,” said state Sen. Erik Poulsen, D-Seattle, a key negotiator in the Senate last year for the bill, which would ban discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Supporters of the bill see him as the weakest link in what’s been an unwavering Senate GOP blockade of the measure since it was first introduced more than 20 years ago.

Of course, none of this should come as a surprise to my regular readers. In analyzing Finkbeiner’s resignation as minority leader, I wrote:

… freed of the burden of leadership, don’t be surprised to see him vote his conscience on HB 1515 (prohibiting discrimination based on sexual preference) ….

I think it is clear from his prior public statements that Finkbeiner does indeed support the legislation. If he chooses to stand up to his party leadership and vote his conscience, I expect at least two other Republican senators to join him.

Comments

  1. 2

    Sven spews:

    I have to say the war on christmas issue is intriguing.

    Case in point. I find this interesting for two reasons:

    One, my son attends this school.

    And two, this has the usual suspects of holidays, Christmas and Easter, the obvious two biggees, as well as St Patricks Day and St Valentines, which must be bad because they are name after saints, there are a couple of surprise additions: Thanksgiving and the 4th of July.

    I am trying to figure out why ban Thanksgiving, unless it is a presumed representation of something about Native Americans; and this is the first time I have seen the American Independence day included.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCul.....1216a.html

    University Administrator Declares Christmas ‘Forbidden’
    By Nathan Burchfiel
    CNSNews.com Correspondent
    December 16, 2005

    (CNSNews.com) – An administrator at California State University, Sacramento has banned decorations pertaining to Christmas and the 4th of July, among other holidays, from her office because they represent “religious discrimination” and “ethnic insensitivity.”

    “Time has come to recognize that religious discrimination, as well as ethnic insensitivity to certain holidays, is forbidden,” Patricia Sonntag, director of the Office of Services to Students with Disabilities, stated in the directive she e-mailed to members of her staff on Dec. 9.

    Cybercast News Service obtained the directive from the non-profit Catholic League, which “defends the right of Catholics … to participate in American public life without defamation or discrimination,” according to its website. The content of the e-mail was confirmed by the university.

    The memo specifically names Christmas, Thanksgiving, Halloween, Valentine’s Day, the 4th of July, St. Patrick’s Day and Easter as the most offensive holidays, but Sonntag adds that they are “off the top of the list,” implying that there may be others.

    She wrote that the ban was being implemented “in order to avoid offending someone else” because Sacramento State is “a secular university and we are a public service area that has a diverse employee and student populations [sic] even in our private offices.”

    Sonntag noted that she is “the worst offender and celebrant,” and apologized “if this offends anyone, but it is time to start the new year differently.”

    A Nov. 28 profile of Sonntag in the university’s faculty and staff newsletter stated that she and her office “Have been the cornerstone of equality and progress here on campus.”

    But the university associate vice president for public affairs, Frank Whitlatch, distanced the university from Sonntag’s policy, saying in a prepared statement that it “was well-intentioned but strays from the established practice.”

    He stated that the university “has no guidelines prohibiting holiday decorations,” aside from the responsibility of supervisors, “to ensure that employees do not spend an unreasonable amount of work time decorating.”

    Whitlatch echoed Sonntag’s sentiments that Sacramento State “is a public entity … and employees do not endorse specific religious beliefs while on the job.”

    Catholic League president Bill Donohue called the policy a violation of free speech rights. “It never occurs to these secular supremacists that it is their aversion to anything religious – or patriotic – that accounts for their desire to muzzle free speech.”

    A receptionist in Sonntag’s office told Cybercast News Service that Sonntage was on vacation. The office’s assistant director, Teresa Mendick, did not return calls requesting comment for this article.

  2. 3

    windie spews:

    gregoire comes out pretty well in that interview, I Think… She ducked a few issues (ie guns), but seems to have a good vision for where she wants to go with the state.

  3. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    More guns in criminal hands = more crime
    Gunshow loophole = more guns in criminal hands

  4. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I see Bush is up to his old trick of blaming the media for reporting his stupid policies, instead of blaming his stupid policies.

  5. 11

    JCH spews:

    ATLANTA – U.S. Rep. John Lewis said Monday in a radio interview that President Bush should be impeached if he broke the law in authorizing spying on Americans. The Democratic congressman from Atlanta told WAOK-AM he would sign a bill of impeachment if one was drawn up and that the House of Representatives should consider such a move. [Maxine Waters and Cynthia McKinney agreed, saying “Da Bush gotsa go down like a black Ho south o Martin Luther King Street!!]

  6. 12

    HRH spews:

    Bush’s piss-poor press conference highlights what an absurdity his presidency is. At the very least, the neocons are going to have to find a better orator if they want to implement their fascist agenda.

  7. 15

    windie spews:

    lib; kinda obsessive on the gun issue eh?

    hows this: More guns=more people die from shooting.

    Can we agree on that?

  8. 16

    JCH spews:

    Democrat controlled cities are the safest!! You know, like Washington D. C., Detroit, and Philadelphia. [hehe: Democrat Leadership: Taking us to third world status, like Harare, Zimbabwe!!]

  9. 17

    Libertarian spews:

    OK, let’s seize and destroy all the guns. That means ALL guns. The cops’, the military’s, the secret squirrel’s, everybody’s!

    What do you Neo-Socialists think about that idea?

  10. 19

    For the Clueless spews:

    Secular Supremacist!?!

    OMiG*D! Saying “Happy Holidays” is a form of oppression against the religious! Fight back with “Merry Christmas”, “Happy Hannukah”, etc.!

    Buy a copy of the “War on Christmas” for your loved ones this Hol.. err Christmas season.

    Has this country gone completely nuts or what? If you read the blogs, the answer is definitely yes.

  11. 20

    fire_one spews:

    So let me get this straight… Bush decided to allow NSA to conduct domestic espionage, and then told them to just skip the FISA court, and then said he was justified because he had briefed Congress. So if Nixon had just briefed Congress on his Watergate break in, he wouldn’t have been impeached? Is that the gist of it?

  12. 23

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    ‘Bout fucking time. Bout fucking time GWB fought back against Murka’s internal enemies. That means assholes like fireone here.

    I’m glad GWB laid out the plan again… so you fucking idiots can see it and understand it. I’m glad he took the enemies at NYT and shoved their “scoop” up their asses. Hope they find the snitch and torture her at Gitmo.

    You moonbats got helluva problem now don’t you? Whaddya gonna do with an opponent who has the facts, the law and The People on his side?

  13. 27

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Here you go again Goldy–
    You might as well just come right out and say you are a Holocaust Victim, even though you grew up in the safety of a privileged life in Philly. You undertone of the “intolerance” labeling of those who want to call a Christmas Tree a CHRISTMAS TREE is comical. Keep it up.
    BTW Goldy–
    Hanukkah Begins at Sundown on December 25th. Just though you might like to know!!

  14. 28

    dj spews:

    Libertarian @ 15

    “Isn’t MoveOn.org financed by that jerk Soros?”

    I have no idea. I haven’t been to moveon since they hosted the “bush in 30 seconds” videos.

  15. 29

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 24

    So…how many of Goldy’s relatives do you figured were slaughtered in the holocaust?

  16. 30

    dj spews:

    Mark the Fascist @ 20

    What the hell are you doing posting here? Does this mean you finally paid off your bet to Goldy??

  17. 31

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    sgmmac – should I have said “he” or “person”. Shouldn’t there be equal opportunity in pronouns?

  18. 32

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Good comment DJ… only took you one post to say fascist. Next time, can you throw in nazi too?

  19. 34

    klake spews:

    More guns in criminal hands = more crime
    Gun show loophole = more guns in criminal hands

    Comment by Roger Rabbit— 12/19/05 @ 3:37 pm

    Roger Wabbit would the privacy groups allow for Mr. Joe Public to do a background check on your old customers. Naaaw: You might find out some many shortcomings of this justice system. Just imagine you were selling a car to a drunk, or a pedophile living next to your school, you be denying his right to prey on your family and friends. You know, they have more rights than the victims in this part of the country. Wabbit you are too old to use a weapon to defend yourself, or friends. How about donating your weapons to Hand Gun Control, they could display them in Peace Square. You might shoot up the neighbor hood like you friend the Doc… If you need any help, run next door and Jim McDermott will have plenty of bodyguards available to render assistance. I think Bagdad Bob is now working for him now that Saddam is in jail. Do not call Ted Kennedy for he would not help anyone drowning in a car, besides he needs all the protection he can get. You know those crazy Republicans will do anything.

  20. 35

    sgmmac spews:

    MTR

    Nice tap dance. I actually thought about you today driving home from Centralia. I noticed a big sign that said “Redneck Store.”

  21. 37

    spews:

    Guns aren’t why that Tacoma shooting happened. It happened because somebody screwed up that kid. Whether its a dirty uncle, mom didn’t hold him enough, whatever.

    Liberals need guns to protect themselves from red-state cousin-fuckers.

  22. 38

    Voter Advocate spews:

    Sven @ 2

    So, an administrative office at Sac State isn’t going to put up decorations on holidays. This is news?

    I wouldn’t be supportive of a “war on Christmas” if one were happening, but this is kind of silly, don’t you think? In a school with an enrollment around 28,000 how many of them know where the 23 employees of the Services To Students With Disabilities office work?

    I’ve been working a lot of years, and I don’t recall me or my colleagues ever decorating more than what the company put up.

  23. 40

    Sven spews:

    when a supervisor issues a dictate like that, it destroys any argument about diversity and respect.

    It’s suppression. And if it only happened in one place, no one would care.

    But it is common.

  24. 41

    Voter Advocate spews:

    23.

    Whaddya gonna do with an opponent who has the facts, the law and The People on his side?

    We’ll cross that bridge when, and if, we come to it.

  25. 42

    Voter Advocate spews:

    40.

    But it is common.

    Yeah, how many other offices at Sac State are doing so? Somebody must have been trolling the press releases late into the night to find that one.

  26. 43

    GS spews:

    Gregoire doesn’t know where she wants to go on guns! Now I have heard everything from this lame brain.

    Duh let me guess!!!!!!!

    She has regulated and taxed the crap out of everything in this state thus far. What’s left?

    Duh let me guess!!!!!!

  27. 44

    JCH spews:

    What NOT to get your black Democrat friends for Kwaanza: 42 inch Sony HD TVs. They already have several taken from the Best Buy in New Orleans!!

  28. 45

    Sven spews:

    Oh, likely right. But even Sac says thats out of their policies.

    No I meant common around the natoin.

    Like Medina taking down a giving tree. Like schools that wont use christmas carols. Even King County played that game last year.

    And its needless pandering to political correctness because Christmas isnt even a christian holiday anymore, its more about Santa then Christ.

    Will they rewrite Dickens too? A Holiday Carole? Re do Bing Crosby? Have him sing White Holiday season?

    Christmas is internationally recognized as a fun holiday. We need to get over the sensitivity training.

  29. 46

    Voter Advocate spews:

    `Oh, Man, look here! Look, look, down here!’ exclaimed
    the Ghost.

    They were a boy and a girl. Yellow, meagre, ragged,
    scowling, wolfish; but prostrate, too, in their humility. Where
    graceful youth should have filled their features out, and
    touched them with its freshest tints, a stale and shrivelled
    hand, like that of age, had pinched, and twisted them, and
    pulled them into shreds. Where angels might have sat
    enthroned, devils lurked, and glared out menacing. No
    change, no degradation, no perversion of humanity, in any
    grade, through all the mysteries of wonderful creation, has
    monsters half so horrible and dread.

    Scrooge started back, appalled. Having them shown to
    him in this way, he tried to say they were fine children, but
    the words choked themselves, rather than be parties to a lie
    of such enormous magnitude.

    `Spirit, are they yours?’ Scrooge could say no more.

    `They are Man’s,’ said the Spirit, looking down upon
    them. `And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers.
    This boy is Ignorance This girl is Want. Beware them both,
    and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for
    on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the
    writing be erased. Deny it!’ cried the Spirit, stretching out
    its hand towards the city. `Slander those who tell it ye!
    Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse.
    And abide the end.’

    `Have they no refuge or resource?’ cried Scrooge.

    `Are there no prisons?’ said the Spirit, turning on him
    for the last time with his own words. `Are there no workhouses?’
    The bell struck twelve.

  30. 47

    sgmmac spews:

    Sven

    You can list thousands of examples of true stories that have happened in the last ten years or so and you are still wasting your breath here. It is the same as those who claim that the Nov 04 election in Washington State was a model to the rest fo the world and it had an error rate than any bank would be proud of. It is the same as Baghdad Bob claiming their Americans weren’t in Baghdad. It is the same as those idiots who refuse to believe that the holocaust happened, there is nothing anybody can do or say that will make those hard heads believe.
    People hear what they want to hear, especially the narrow minded, nothing more, nothing less.

  31. 48

    sgmmac spews:

    I just want to know where is the outrage at the leak of Secret information? Is it now okay for government personnel with secret or top secret clearances to go to the NY Times with program information? Is it okay for a Senator who found out about the secret program to go to the NY Times? Is it okay for a news reporter to write a book about a secret government program?

  32. 49

    spews:

    Guns aren’t why that Tacoma shooting happened. It happened because somebody screwed up that kid. Whether its a dirty uncle, mom didn’t hold him enough, whatever.

    Liberals need guns to protect themselves from red-state cousin-fuckers.

    Comment by Belltowner— 12/19/05 @ 6:11 pm

    Why do you donks care why a kid shot someone? He was probably educated in one of your fucked up schools. Are not murderers a big part of the voter base for you donks.

  33. 50

    Dale spews:

    If it violates the Constitution and federal law, yes . Remember your oath to defend the constitution or were cooks exempt.

  34. 51

    Jacob Marley spews:

    The government has been monitoring overseas calls, on a random basis, for years. This has been done by Dems and Reps.

    You know, maybe if we didn’t have such a hard-on to back Israel all the time we wouldn’t have this much trouble with the Islamic knuckleheads.

  35. 52

    spews:

    You know, maybe if we didn’t have such a hard-on to back Israel all the time we wouldn’t have this much trouble with the Islamic knuckleheads.

    Comment by Jacob Marley— 12/19/05 @ 7:28 pm

    Don’t fool yourself. The only good Islamic fundamentalist is a dead one.

  36. 54

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    34

    “Wabbit you are too old to use a weapon to defend yourself, or friends. How about donating your weapons”

    Leave it to a Republican to want a free rabbit’s foot …

    F R E E L O A D E R S

  37. 57

    spews:

    Trusting liberals to be tough on crime is a little like going to Mardi Gras in Seattle. You better wear your body armor.

  38. 58

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    46

    Anyone who criticizes Washington’s Nov. 2004 election without criticizing Ohio’s Nov. 2004 election is either a hypocrite or a partisan shill. Which are you?

  39. 59

    fire_one spews:

    @47 – if the President is violating the Constitution, it is not only right, it is their DUTY, something which we don’t expect Republicans to understand…

  40. 60

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    47

    “Is it now okay for government personnel with secret or top secret clearances to go to the NY Times with program information?”

    Yes — when a president violates the constitution and G-men with badges and guns break the law, it’s everybody’s business, and the whistleblower is a hero.

  41. 62

    Dale spews:

    Whats wrong with another playground for millionaires ? At least we would know where all the rednecks would be 3 times a year . Myself included .

  42. 63

    spews:

    Is it now okay for government personnel with secret or top secret clearances to go to the NY Times with program information?”

    I guess it is OK if it is against a Republican but if it is too shead light on a political operative lying in a CIA report (ie Wilson Plame episode) it is not.

  43. 64

    LeftTurn spews:

    Given the theft of the Constitutional government by the right wing, I believe it’s more important than ever that Democrats arm themselves. I think it’s only a matter of time until we have to defend ourselves and the true US of A!

  44. 65

    spews:

    63

    Wow. What are you going to do when the Republicans win in 2006 and 2008 and the democratic empire crumples. Any donk wants to come to my door with a gun I have got three words for you… BRING IT ON.

  45. 66

    dj spews:

    Mark the Fascist @ 32

    “Good comment DJ… only took you one post to say fascist. Next time, can you throw in nazi too?”

    Ohhhh…good point. Given that you said

    There are 6 billion people in the world. 2 billion of them are muslim. That means that all the rest of need to pair up and kill one of them. When we all do that, the problem will be solved. And it really is like a cancer… you hafta get every trace of it… every cell, or it will come out of remission with a vengeance. This also solves the global population problem you guys are so worried about, so we kill two birds with one stone.

    in this comment thread, it is very difficult to distinguish you from a genuine Nazi. Perhaps you should be called Mark the Nazi instead.

    You’ve earned it!

  46. 67

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    ….What are you going to do when the Republicans win in 2006 and 2008 (?)…

    Since this is not going to happen, RUFUS (Republicans are Usurious Felonious and Uprincipled Swindlers), the question is, as is usual from you, meaningless.

    The question is: What are YOU going to do after significant GOP losses in ’06 and ’08?

  47. 68

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    People hear what they want to hear, especially the narrow minded, nothing more, nothing less.

    As you so ably demonstrate, sgmmac, post after post after post.

  48. 69

    JCH spews:

    Given the theft of the Constitutional government by the right wing, I believe it’s more important than ever that Democrats arm themselves. I think it’s only a matter of time until we have to defend ourselves and the true US of A!

    Comment by LeftTurn — 12/19/05 @ 7:55 pm [Er, Left Turn, I miss have missed your post when Bill Clinton did the same think. Also, no comment on Hillary’s 1000 FBI files?? Democrats: economic idiots!]

  49. 70

    spews:

    Since this is not going to happen, RUFUS (Republicans are Usurious Felonious and Uprincipled Swindlers), the question is, as is usual from you, meaningless.

    The question is: What are YOU going to do after significant GOP losses in ‘06 and ‘08?

    Yeah yeah. I heard you donks say that Bush was going to lose in 2004 and lose big in Florida. Result: Bush wins with over 50% of the vote for the first time since 1988 and with the most votes ever received in a presidential election. You donks have never been good at predictions.

  50. 72

    Proud to be an Ass spews:

    @68: Sims v. Irons? Certain victory for I-912? Rossi can’t lose? The list is a long one.

    I would be pleased to put a little wager on ’06, RUFUS, but it appears the goppers on this site are true to both their predelictions and their principles–they are welshers.

  51. 73

    Donnageddon spews:

    “just want to know where is the outrage at the leak of Secret information? ”

    Outrage at someone whistleblowing the Administration illegally spying on US citizens?

    I am outraged whoever leaked the information has not been given the Congrassional Medal of Honor!

    And I am outraged that Impeachment Proceedings against Bush have not already been started!

    There is my outrage, sgmmac!

  52. 74

    Donnageddon spews:

    I cannot imagine a soldier for the US Armed forces is not outraged at having the Bush administration pissing all over the freedoms and rights that millions of brave soldiers have fought and died for!

    I am fucking OUTRAGED!

  53. 75

    Donnageddon spews:

    Start making the gallows, start fixing the nooses!

    Impeach Bush NOW, and send him to the Hague!

  54. 77

    Donnageddon spews:

    We have a large portion of the Republicans in congress outraged at Bush’s recent illegal activities, but HAs Troll’s still keep their blinders on and fingers in their ears saying “LA LA LA LA LA … I hear nothing!!!”

  55. 78

    spews:

    @68: Sims v. Irons? Certain victory for I-912? Rossi can’t lose? The list is a long one.

    Rossi didn’t lose. No one said that Irons was going to win KC are you kidding. I didn’t see the 12 millions coming in in the last weeks to defeat I-912 so blew it on I-912. What your wager on 2006 abd 2008? I am in.

  56. 79

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Donna – We’re at war you stupid fucking bitch. If we got attacked again you’d be FIRST to criticize what should have been done… what conversations should have been listened to… who should have been rousted and interrogated and got the shit beat out of them until they talked.

    Notice GWB didn’t get the least bit defensive or back down in the slightest. He’s right and he knows it.

  57. 80

    karl spews:

    yes, imagine the outrqge. Bush has been doing what every president since Reagan has been doing.

    The horror.

    sheesh, this is not news or a surprise….well, it is here I guess.

    Will you call for prosecution of Clinton for doing the same thing? I wonder what the statute of limitations on this is…if it is wrong now, it was wrong then. they can share a cell.

  58. 81

    K spews:

    Rufus @ 51- Looks like those Iraqi elections aren’t quite turning out according to plan. Traded a secular despot for an Islamic Fundamentalist government.

    Early voting results indicated that religious groups, particularly the main Shiite coalition, had taken a commanding lead.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12.....artner=AOL

  59. 82

    Dale spews:

    Mark- you need help .Your anger towards women is unsettling . The shrub did not back down because he has enough people like you willing to trade freedom for security .

  60. 83

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Dale – “The Shrub”. Fuck you asshole.

    And what the fuck are you talking about “anger toward women”. Ex goddam near killed my daughter and FUWA back her every step of the way. The regulars here know the story. So I’m GD angry with the bullshit women can get away with and the metros like you who go along with it.

  61. 84

    Donnageddon spews:

    Mark the Villiage Idiot Welcher on Bets and all around Bastard, I know we are at War. We are at war against a facist regime in the executive administration that would just as soon slit your throat and piss down your neck as they steal your children and grandchildrens hope for a future!

    You know who hates our Freedoms? The Bush Administration!

    Those who trade freedom for saftey deserve neither!

    And you Mark the Idiot deserve what the Bush administration has planned for you. And it ain’t pretty.

  62. 85

    Donnageddon spews:

    If Bush had any interest in protecting your ignorant ass, Mark the Idiot, he would have paid attention to the August 6th Presidential brief describing the intent for Al Queda to attack inside America. He would have demanded Cheney actually hold meetings for the terrorist Council he was in charge of. He would have listened to Tenet when he tried over and over again to tell him that “the lights were all blinking red”.

    He would have protected us, but he had other plans.

    He wanted a trumped up war in Iraq. A two bit middle eastern dictatorship that Colin Powel and Condi Rice in the summer of 2001 said “Hand no ability to attack even its neighbors, and had NO ARSENAL of any significe.

    Bush HATES America,and you support Bush, so I fucking HATE YOU!

    You blind ignorant asshole!

  63. 86

    Donnageddon spews:

    MArk the Moron “The regulars here know the story”

    Yeah, we KNOW the story, dipshit. You are an ignorant FUCK! With hatred that blinds you from any rational thought.

  64. 87

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Ain’t it great to see the liberal mind for everyone to see? Keep going Donna… this is fascinating. Tell me about corporations please. I really like that story. Can you start with Halliburton?

  65. 88

    Donnageddon spews:

    And Mark you son a syphalitic whore, if I were to die in a terrorist attack, the last thing I would want is anyone using it for a reason to trample the democracy I love, or invade a country that had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT! Taking brave men and women to their deaths for his rich buddies.

  66. 90

    Donnageddon spews:

    Yeah Mark “Ain’t it great to see the Neo-Con Zombie mind for everyone to see?”

    You have been a real show in why our country is in the mess it is.

    Where are the true patriots? No where near a Republican Event, or at public display of admiration for Bush.

  67. 91

    Donnageddon spews:

    I am glad you are enjoying it Mark the Moron.

    Wanna tell us again about the corelation of a vagina nd stoopidity?

  68. 92

    spews:

    Rufus @ 51- Looks like those Iraqi elections aren’t quite turning out according to plan.

    Comment by K— 12/19/05 @ 9:31 pm

    What they plan their elections ahead of time and pick the winners before the vote? Wow they must all be democrats. As long as they have a bill of rights and fair elections with a representative government things should go well. If the new leaders don’t pan out they will be voted out of office in the next election.

  69. 93

    Donnageddon spews:

    C’mon MArk all (one) of your friends want to hear more about how vaginas make women stoopid…

  70. 95

    spews:

    And another thing if anybody thinks that have people of a nonreligous ilk run better government you only have to look at the recent example of the Sadam to see how well it works. The Nazi and the Commie are yet more examples of athiests in charge.

  71. 97

    HRH spews:

    “‘Bout fucking time. Bout fucking time GWB fought back against Murka’s internal enemies.”

    Fascists, their apologists, and ardent supporters are America’s real internal enemies.

  72. 99

    HRH spews:

    “The Nazi and the Commie are yet more examples of athiests [sic] in charge.”

    Are you for theocracy or fascism, or both?

  73. 100

    spews:

    92

    I hear you Donna. I feel sorry for those people. The Islamic religion fostered some of the greatest nations that ever existed (still all second fiddle to the USA). But just maybe we can make it work in Iraq. It is our only hope to civilize that part of the world.

  74. 101

    yearight spews:

    Sounds like Donnageddon is a bit upset that GW’s poll numbers are rising. And that Fitzmas was Fitzmissing. And that the dems are transparent in wanting the US to lose the war in Iraq, and the war against all terrorists. And that the dems cannot open their mouths without trashing the troops. And…

  75. 102

    sgmmac spews:

    @50

    Jacob,

    It doesn’t matter whether or not the US support Israel. The militant Islamics are NOT going away. They want you dead, they want me dead, they want all infidels DEAD. They will chop off your head, hack up your bodies, rape you, rape your kids, blow you up with bombs and spit on your grave.

    They just killed an American peace activist just a lamb at slaughter.

    There isn’t any amount of talking to them that will change their hatred.

  76. 103

    Donnageddon spews:

    yearight…. LOL Keep telling yourself that. And prepare for the most disasterous new year your Neo-Con Kool Aid drunk mind has ever experienced.

  77. 105

    Donnageddon spews:

    RUFUS, I dream with you. And with a quic regime change here in the USA, we may be able to pull that dream out of the disaster Bush has created.

  78. 107

    sgmmac spews:

    Roger, I don’t live in Ohio and I don’t know anything about the election tampering to comment on. I will say that I did NOT like seeing black people lined up on the street for hours and hours………

  79. 108

    spews:

    I am for the good old USA. Not the false one taught in the liberal public schools but the true original one founded by our Christian forefathers. The greatest country ever to exist. All other nations are 2nd rate.

  80. 109

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Donna – Without giving anything away that you’re not comfortable with… what do you do for a living? I mean generally… Obviously no man would ever pay your bills. How do you do it? You appear to have no intellect whatsoever, no ability to think clearly and no communication skills. What kind of marketable skills do you have?

    Or do you live off the taxpayer?

  81. 110

    Donnageddon spews:

    I agree RUFUS, and I personally will never allow the criminal activities of the Bush Administration destroy this nation of laws. With my dyimng breathe I will fight against the Neo-Con fascists trying to destroy the nation our forefathers created, and so many people have died for.

  82. 112

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Nation of laws? You mean the laws that allowed bubba to settle a felony assault rap and still be president?

  83. 113

    sgmmac spews:

    @59

    No, it isn’t okay. Two wrongs have never made a right. If a NSA employee with a secret or top secret went to the NY Times, that employee needs to have his clearance immediately suspended, an investigation needs to start and if he leaked secret information, he needs to be fired. We can talk about treason charges later. Many military people have been courts-martialed for giving up secret information. There is NO difference here. There is a FISA court that the employee could have gone to, or how about a supervisor??????

  84. 114

    Donnageddon spews:

    Mark the Moron, I have worked everyday since I was 16. Even put myself through college. As I have revealed earlier, I Have been (after college) an analytical chemist for 17 years. I know work in the computer operations of a large aerospace manufacturer formally with its world headquarters in Seattle.

    No man has ever paid my bills, I just don’t swing that way. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

  85. 115

    Donnageddon spews:

    I assume from your posts, Mark The Moron, you are an unemployed former sanitation engineer who has a few ex-wives and now just drink nbeer and attempt to destroy the fabric of America and its constitution through Troll posts on HA.

  86. 116

    spews:

    107

    That is why we vote Donna. The Repubs have won the last couple presidential battles, will they win in 2008. My feeling is yes. We will see when we get there. Until then enjoy the ride and thank god you live the greatest country on gods green earth.

  87. 117

    sgmmac spews:

    @58

    It was the ‘duty’ of those Senators and Congressmen who sat in those briefings about this program for the last two years to speak out and tell the head of the NSA, VP Cheney, Attorney General Gonzalez and President Bush that they thought the program was illegal. It would have taken just a little bit of guts and moral courage to do so.

    Sen Harry Reid knew of this program over 4 months ago and said nothing.

  88. 118

    Donnageddon spews:

    “There is a FISA court that the employee could have gone to, or how about a supervisor??????”

    Ah the years of the past, when whistleblowers were respected and rewarded.

    Not anymore in Bush world. Wistleblowers are stymied, harrased, smeared, ridiculed and if necessary disposed of.

  89. 119

    Donnageddon spews:

    “It would have taken just a little bit of guts and moral courage to do so.”

    Yes, it would have. But alas they are all Republicans, and they didn’t. Oy Vey.

  90. 121

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    You mean “formerly”?

    How did I know… no man has ever paid your bills. Who woulda thunk it… LMAO…. And your “life partner” doesn’t pay either? What does she do?

  91. 122

    Donnageddon spews:

    RUFUS “The Repubs have won the last couple presidential battles, will they win in 2008.”

    Wrong on the first statement, laughable wrong on the second.

  92. 123

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Hey Donna, maybe you can help me. You say you work in the computing field now, so I assume you have some knowledge of OO programming.

    I’m trying to debug some vb.net code and I’m getting an error saying the class can’t be indexed because it has no default property. Can you jot down some code for setting class defaults?

  93. 124

    Donnageddon spews:

    MarK TM, I have no “life partner”. I had a wife, she died 5 years ago.

    I am curious, Mark The Moron… just how stupid are you? I am discovering unending depths of your stupidity!

  94. 125

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Clarification Donna…. the instance of the class… the object default props. Can you help?

    Or do you not have any fucking idea what I’m talking about?

  95. 126

    Donnageddon spews:

    “Can you jot down some code for setting class defaults?”

    I can do a lot of things Mark. But that? For you? Naw.

  96. 128

    Donnageddon spews:

    But a man of your immense knowledge, I am sure thinks Computers = programmers.

    You are truly an intersting troglodyte, Mark.

    And tell me more about vaginas = stoopidity?

  97. 129

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    So in other words, you have no fucking idea what I’m talking about. So tell me, what exactly do you do in the “computer field”? Are you one of those geniuses who resets passwords? Or do you carry workstations out to the office and plug them in?

    Didja see a few days ago that the guys that invented TCP/IP were in town talking to the guys that developed Connexion? And guess what, neither of them were Algore.

  98. 130

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Do tell… what part of the software engineering process do you do? Requirements, architecture, testing, deployment? Or are you networks? Security? What? Can you be a little more specific?

  99. 132

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    So you actually have zero technical knowledge right? Name even one technical area where you have even a shred of expertise.

    I’m waiting…

  100. 134

    Donnageddon spews:

    Mark, I was an analytical chemist for 17 years. Please tell me how a GC/MS seperate Naphthalene from Methanol.

    Be quick about it you moron!

  101. 135

    sgmmac spews:

    Donna, Reid was TV saying he knew about it 4 months ago. I grew up in Nevada, he’s a Nevada Senator. There also was a Senator today who released a statement about his involvement in it.

  102. 136

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    So we’ve finally arrived at it. You work in a field where you have zero technical knowledge. You don’t have any fucking idea what the producers do. Do you feel stupid around them? You should…

  103. 137

    Donnageddon spews:

    LOL he knew about it 3 1/2 years after the fact!!! 4 months ago! You have a point, sgmmac beyond the blather?

  104. 139

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    I never claimed to be a chemist. You claim to work in the computing field. I want to know if you have even a shred of knowledge. You don’t do you?

  105. 140

    Donnageddon spews:

    You can call Reid “out of the loop” that is understandeble, but the New York Times knew about it over a year ago.

  106. 141

    Donnageddon spews:

    Mark the Moron… read my posts, then comment. I said I worked in Computer Operations.

    You on the other hand know absolutely nothing about computer operations at a major firm, or you would not so ignorantly show your… well ignorance!

  107. 142

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Let me get this straight:

    you say you had a “wife” so I assume you’re a man, but you go by a woman’s name here.

    you say you work in the computing field, but you apparently have zero technical knowledge of the field.

    you hate corporations, but you work for one that’s in the Dow 30.

    you hate war, but you work for a defense contractor.

    WTF? How do you live with yourself?

  108. 143

    Donnageddon spews:

    O far, Mark The Moron, you have assumed avout a dozen things about me… all of them wrong.

    Story of your life I assume!

  109. 145

    sgmmac spews:

    @67

    I do listen and I have agreed with a fair amount of post from the regular lefties who post here.

  110. 146

    Donnageddon spews:

    Mark… in what manner do you assume Donnageddon is a female name?

    Ever heard of Donn A Geddon.

    Or Don N. Ageddon.

    Or how about it is just a made up name… Hmmm… Yep you are a complete idiot!

  111. 147

    Donnageddon spews:

    LOL Mark… HAve you been stuc in the same field your whole carear??

    Lord you need to explore life a bit. And when you explore the world of business a bit, you will discover that working in a “field” does not require the knowledge of a low skilled worker such as yourself.

    You really do need to get out of your little world.

  112. 148

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Really? I’m wrong? You said you work for ” a large aerospace manufacturer formally with its world headquarters in Seattle.”

    That would make you an employee of a defense contractor that’s part of the Dow 30.

    Did you know that? Do you hate yourself now?

  113. 149

    Donnageddon spews:

    uh,.. Mark. the answer is no.

    I am proud to work for a major defence contractor. I am just ashamed at how those tools are now being misused by people who have no business being in charge.

  114. 150

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Yeah, right. Knowledge is obsolete. Who the fuck needs to know how to do anything.

    Go to Japan sometime. Visit the heavies over there and find out how much first lines know. They have every bit of the knowledge of the people they manage. They’re at the top of the field and then some.

    They laugh at idiots like you.

  115. 151

    Donnageddon spews:

    And Mark, you cannot be “correct” about something I told you a few posts before.

    You are such an uneducated troglodyte.

  116. 152

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Yeah? are you equally outraged that those same assholes we’re killing now misused products by the same company on 9-11?

  117. 153

    Donnageddon spews:

    But making a fool of you bores me now.

    Go kick your wife and fuck your dog, Mark.

    You are really need to explore the world.

  118. 154

    karl spews:

    60 minutes uncovered the Clintons using it domestically too, against drug lords and politicians.

    Read it, if you really care about what your government has been doing……since the 80’s. Then we can condemn all of them, including Carter, whose watch this may have started on, and Clinton.

    http://cryptome.org/echelon-60min.htm

    Ms. NEWSHAM: I walked into the office building and a friend said, ‘Come over here and listen to–to this thing.’ And–and he had headphones on, so I took the headphones and I listened to it, and–and I looked at him and I’m going, ‘That’s an American.’ And he said, ‘Well, yeah.’

    KROFT: And it was definitely an American voice?

    Ms. NEWSHAM: It was definitely an American voice, and it was a voice that was distinct. And I said, ‘Well, who is that?’ And he said it was Senator Strom Thurmond. And I go, ‘What?’

    KROFT: Do you think this kind of stuff goes on?

    Mr. FROST: Oh, of course it goes on. Been going on for years. Of course it goes on.

    KROFT: You mean the National Security Agency spying on politicians in…

    Mr. FROST: Well, I–I…

    KROFT: …in the United States?

    Mr. FROST: Sounds ludicrous, doesn’t it? Sounds like the world of fiction. It’s not; not the world of fiction. That’s the way it works. I’ve been there. I was trained by you guys.

    Rep. GOSS: Certainly possible that something like that could happen. The question is: What happened next?

    KROFT: What do you mean?

    Rep. GOSS: It is certainly possible that somebody overheard me in a conversation. I have just been in Europe. I have been talking to people on a telephone and elsewhere. So it’s very possible somebody could have heard me. But the question is: What do they do about it? I mean, I cannot stop the dust in the ether; it’s there. But what I can make sure is that it’s not abused–the capability’s not abused, and that’s what we do.

    KROFT: Much of what’s known about the Echelon program comes not from enemies of the United States, but from its friends. Last year, the European Parliament, which meets here in Strasbourg, France, issued a report listing many of the Echelon’s spy stations around the world and detailing their surveillance capabilities. The report says Echelon is not just being used to track spies and terrorists. It claims the United States is using it for corporate and industrial espionage as well, gathering sensitive information on European corporations, then turning it over to American competitors so they can gain an economic advantage.

  119. 155

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    It’s been fascinating to peer inside the abyss of the liberal kook.

    Nothin there. Just hate and intolerance and stupidity on an unprecedented scale.

    Thanks.

  120. 156

    Donnageddon spews:

    One last “making a fool of Mark moment”

    “are you equally outraged that those same assholes we’re killing now misused products by the same company on 9-11?”

    They died in the crash.

    Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Even the President In Name Only has already admitted that.

    Now go read a book mark, or have someone read it to you.

  121. 157

    sgmmac spews:

    134 & 136

    Donna,

    As soon as Reid found out about it, he had a moral and ethical responsibility to speak up if he believed it was illegal. When you don’t speak up, you are giving your implied consent.

    As for Whistleblowers, they are protected from payback and persecution for the whistleblowing, however; they are NOT protected from being prosecuted for the unauthorized disclosure of ‘secret’ or ‘top secret’ classified information. Every piece of classified information at NSA right now is at risk. What other stories is the NY Times ‘sitting’ on? When our intelligence agencies fail to protect classified information the entire country is at risk.

  122. 158

    sgmmac spews:

    @72

    I don’t believe in lynchings, hangings, impeachments and other various tortues that have been mentioned here tonight without even knowing what happened and what the truth is. I do believe in hearings and investigations. The congress will hold hearings, and the justice department is investigating those who disclosed classified information.

    In other words, I prefer a fair and equitable justice system, not a leap out your ass fry them right fucking now mentality!

  123. 159

    Donnageddon spews:

    sgmmac, you have convinced me. While they investigate and prepare impeachment charges for Bush, they should investigate, and possibly admonish Reid. But Reid’s silence does not make Bush’s act any less illegal.

    I am going to bed now with a good book.

    We can discuss furhter later.

  124. 160

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Good idea Donna. Why don’t you read up on your field. Get some fucking idea what your organization does. Could be interesting…

  125. 161

    klake spews:

    I am proud to work for a major defense contractor. I am just ashamed at how those tools are now being misused by people who have no business being in charge.

    Comment by Donnageddon— 12/19/05 @ 11:01 pm

    Donnageddon people read things into what you say or write and Mark social skills are not what you reveal in from of your customers. However, that being said that for those great tools your company make is it sure makes our job easier. I been using them since 1966 and will continue using them until I retire. I know you have no love for the President, but we are sure seeing results in southwest Asia in the last year. The plans I work on in 2001 and 2002 have produce great results on winning this war on Terror. Iraq has been a great battlefield to kill the Terrorist in; the side effect is the Iraqis people have been paying the highest price for the war. Sgmmac nice try on running inference with Mark, but he is like a rabid dog going in for the kill. The United State Military thanks you for all your support and Merry Christmas.

  126. 162

    klake spews:

    I am proud to work for a major defense contractor. I am just ashamed at how those tools are now being misused by people who have no business being in charge.

    Comment by Donnageddon— 12/19/05 @ 11:01 pm

    Donnageddon people read things into what you say or write and Mark communication skills are not what you reveal in from of your customers. However, that being said that for those great tools your company make is it sure makes our job easier. I been using them since 1966 and will continue using them until I retire. I know you have no love for the President, but we are sure seeing results in southwest Asia in the last year. The plans I work on in 2001 and 2002 have produce great results on winning this war on Terror. Iraq has been a great battlefield to kill the Terrorist in; the side effect is the Iraqis people have been paying the highest price for the war. Sgmmac nice try on running inference with Mark, but he is like a rabid dog going in for the kill. The United State Military thanks you for all your support and Merry Christmas.
    The last post got caught in the filter did word substitution.

  127. 163

    klake spews:

    While they investigate and prepare impeachment charges for Bush, they should investigate, and possibly admonish Reid. But Reid’s silence does not make Bush’s act any less illegal.

    I am going to bed now with a good book.

    We can discuss furhter later.

    Comment by Donnageddon— 12/19/05 @ 11:20 pm

    Donnagenddon you have to do better than that to get an impeachment. President Clinton was not called the Teflon Man for nothing. I do believe you do not claim to be a Lawyer. If it were possible, the wabbit would be filing the papers in the AM.

  128. 166

    Donnageddon spews:

    Klake, unless RR is a member of the House of Representatives, he can’t file the papers.

    Perhaps you and Mark The Villiage Idiot Redneck should both crack open a book someday. Maybe start a “reading club”. You could start with “My Pet Goat”. The PINO found it so interesting, he couldn’t put it down even while our country was attacked.

  129. 167

    Donnageddon spews:

    Bush in 4/20/04

    Bush: Wiretaps “Require a Court Order.” “Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires — a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news.....20-2.html#

    Bush in 12/19/05

    I Authorized Secret Wiretap Program Without Going Through the Courts. “To save American lives, we must be able to act fast and to detect these conversations so we can prevent new attacks. So, consistent with U.S. law and the Constitution, I authorized the interception of international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations. … This program has targeted those with known links to al Qaeda. I’ve reauthorized this program more than 30 times since the September the 11th attacks, and I intend to do so for so long as our nation is — for so long as the nation faces the continuing threat of an enemy that wants to kill American citizens.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news.....219-2.html

    Bush is a lying sack of shit, and there is the evidence in his own words!

  130. 168

    Sven spews:

    Donna,

    Serious question. Do you feel the goverment can lie to the people if there is an overwhelming security issue to protect?

    I am not, repeat *not* suggesting Bush is justified.

    I am just curious if you buy that sometimes the end might justify the means?

  131. 169

    Donnageddon spews:

    “Serious question. Do you feel the goverment can lie to the people if there is an overwhelming security issue to protect?”

    Certainly dpends on the situation, sven. And then it becomes a personal issue, not a legal one.

    In my opinion this is definitely NOT one of those times, and all evidence shows that the Bush admninistrations actions were illegal. Every administration for the last 30 years has had access to secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. That court was created precisely to provide speedy, secure judicial review to the actions of our intelligence agencies. Secret warrants have been approved over 19,000 times — only five applications were rejected in nearly thirty years. These special courts are available 24/7 365 days a year.

    That is the point, BushCo has attempted to avoid ANY review of their actions. They have went beyond the boundaries of the constitution and the laws of the USA in order to secretly spy on American citizens with NO oversight.

    Impeachment should be started immediatlly.

  132. 171

    Sven spews:

    169…

    Certainly dpends on the situation, sven. And then it becomes a personal issue, not a legal one

    Err how so? how is this not a legal issue? YOu are calling for impeachment, which implies the president committed a crime.

    Now, lying at a news conference is not a crime, its just unethical. Wiretapping, well the laws are so fuzzy that one will be discuss as to its legality for years, particularly with the Echelon program already previously in use.

    And the justificatoins have already begun from his defenders that this was not unconstitutional, and ont illegal, so I will stand back and let the court’s figure it out. Some radio guy mentoined a recent precedent though that he claims validates it.

    i didnt get enough details so i will wait to judge.

    But, what if they claim that he said what he did in 2004 to prevent tipping off the terrorists that this was in use, which has now happened ironically…you know as well as I do this is *exactly* what will be claimed…

    I would assume that you would reject that as spurious.

    As for your democracy died claim, naw. That’s nice sounding, but the fact that it has been reported and is being investigated is proof that democracy lives.

    This is another scandal in a long US history of scandals.

    Time will tell whether his argument of justification will meet the burden of reasonable search or not.

    My only hesitation that keeps me from openly condemning it, is the assertion that they foiled plots using it. If true, that would go a long way towards the justification issue.

    I want some evidence to back that one up by the way, not just a press statement or speech.

    If it becomes validated that they did prevent attacks this way, all bets are off.

    If not, they will all hang, and at that point they should.

  133. 172

    Sven spews:

    The legal precedent I mentioned was in the WSJ opinion article:

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/.....=110007703

    The allegation of Presidential law-breaking rests solely on the fact that Mr. Bush authorized wiretaps without first getting the approval of the court established under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978. But no Administration then or since has ever conceded that that Act trumped a President’s power to make exceptions to FISA if national security required it. FISA established a process by which certain wiretaps in the context of the Cold War could be approved, not a limit on what wiretaps could ever be allowed.

    The courts have been explicit on this point, most recently in In Re: Sealed Case, the 2002 opinion by the special panel of appellate judges established to hear FISA appeals. In its per curiam opinion, the court noted that in a previous FISA case (U.S. v. Truong), a federal “court, as did all the other courts to have decided the issue [our emphasis], held that the President did have inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign intelligence information.” And further that “we take for granted that the President does have that authority and, assuming that is so, FISA could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power.”

    more food for thought…..

  134. 173

    Donnageddon spews:

    sven said “I will stand back and let the court’s figure it out.”

    That is what an Impeachment is. It is the trial of a President.

    I am asking for the same thing you are. You are just not smart enough to know it.

  135. 174

    Donnageddon spews:

    And, sven, I assume you realize for every “opinion journal” opinion you can post I can counter with a completely diferrent opinion.

    Lets let the Impeachment trial decide.

  136. 175

    Donnageddon spews:

    And sven,, you never answer the question why Bush did not use the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court? Why was he hiding from ALL oversight? What was he hiding and why did he go around the legal ways to conduct these wiretaps?

    His own party is deserting him on this, and only the most entrenched Troll defends these types of actions.

    If they subverted a terrorist attack they could have done it just as easily with the proper secret oversight.

    ergo, he lied, democracy died, he has something to hide, and only evil supports his side.

  137. 176

    sgmmac spews:

    Donna,

    President Bush didn’t lie, he held a fireside chat and told the American people that he authorized it and that it didn’t break any laws. How is that lying?

  138. 178

    Donnageddon spews:

    “he held a fireside chat”

    Actually Bush is not allowed to hold fireside chats. He keeps sticking his fingers in the flame and shouting “Dammit thats hot! Why didn’t my aids tell me fire is hot?”

  139. 179

    Donnageddon spews:

    Bruce Fein, former Associate Deputy Attorney General under Reagan, on today’s Diane Rehm Show:

    Fein: It’s more power than King George III had at the time of the revolution in asserting the theory that anything the President thinks is helpful to fighting the war against terrorism he can do. That was why he claimed he can ignore the torture convention […]

    Rehm: Bruce Fein, why couldn’t the National Security Agency do exactly what the President wanted if they had simply gone to this special secret court?

    Fein: It could have, the secret court is inclined to ratify virtually every warrant that has ever been asked by the executive branch.

    Rehm: So why didn’t the President go to the court?

    Fein: Because I think the President believes that he is the only unit of government capable of running a war.

    (Real Audio) http://www.wamu.org/audio/dr/0.....9-8075.ram

  140. 180

    Donnageddon spews:

    David Keene, Executive Director of the American Conservative Union, on today’s Diane Rehm Show:

    Keene: […] Having said that as a description of their justification of it, the claim that in trying to protect Americans and pursuing his powers as commander in chief that a President has power that inherently trumps the rest of the Constitution is a sort of exaggerated claim of power on behalf of this President or any other President for that matter […]

    Rehm: How do you see this action in using a branch of government such as
    the NSA to spy on American citizens?

    Keene: I think its Presidential overreaching and I think most Americans would certainly oppose it. Just as we have been at the forefront of the call for reform of the Patriot Act, the reauthorization.

    The conservatives are outraged!!!

    But HA Trolls still try to make excuses against the obvious abuse of power.

  141. 181

    Donnageddon spews:

    Still want to defend this Administration, sgmmac? You sven?

    Gonna be awful lonely for you.

  142. 183

    sgmmac spews:

    Donna,

    I read your post at 167, I comprehended it too. He isn’t allowed to disclose classified information either. He did NOT lie, if you want to call it a lie, you can, I don’t and I definitely don’t want him giving up intelligence or telling the enemy what tactics America is going to use to catch them.

  143. 185

    sgmmac spews:

    @178

    Thanks for the laugh. According to Laura Bush last year when she roasted him, Bush would just crank up a chainsaw and take out the fireplace piece by piece if it burned him!

  144. 186

    sgmmac spews:

    @181

    Yes, I still support President Bush just like you still supported President Clinton.

    We shall see how it plays out. The Congress isn’t the only branch of government and they may think that their powers are greater than the Judicial Branch or the Executive Branch, but they’ve been *****slapped many times for that attitude in the past.

    President Reagan & President Clinton’s attorneys both have argued that the Executive Branch has the authority to gather intelligence without using the FISA court. They argued that the President has the authority under Article II of the Constitution as the Commander in Chief. President Clinton targeted Aldridge Aims with eavesdropping and a search of his house without search warrants. He was convicted as a spy for the Soviet Union.

    There is a difference in intelligence gathering and evidence gathering. Intelligence gathering is a military function. Evidence gathering is a criminal function. The President has broad powers as the Commander in Chief and he is charged with keeping millions of people and this country safe.

    I think you will be disappointed if you are expecting an impeachment, but we shall see.

  145. 187

    Donnageddon spews:

    sgmmac, speaking like a psychic said

    “I still support President Bush just like you still supported President Clinton.”

    How little you know me, sgmmac. And how ridiculous for you to suggest my support of Clinton, where you have absolutely no evidence of said support.

    But you do seem to have a fancy for making things up.

    BushCo is proud of you. You may be spared.

    Again, I return to book land. Sleep tight, don’t let the facts bite you. You can always try to shoo them away with a made up statement.

  146. 188

    sgmmac spews:

    Donna,

    But, of course it was psychic, I have never met you. But I did know you were a male………..

    Happy Reading!