Comments

  1. 2

    proud leftist spews:

    Why aren’t the Iraqis expressing more gratitude for the liberation we brought them? In addition to teaching them the basics of democracy, must we also school them in the basics of common courtesy? Next time we invade a country, I think we should pick one where the learning curve isn’t so pronounced.

  2. 4

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    2. proud leftist spews:
    Why aren’t the Iraqis expressing more gratitude for the liberation we brought them?

     
    Because they watch msnbc & cnn and see how the hosts talk about America and mimic it, falsely believing that is how one shows gratitude and respect for America.

  3. 5

    David spews:

    Yes, well, Juan Cole also wrote these pieces in his “informed consent” blog in late 2007, early 2008:

    Why Bush’s troop surge won’t save Iraq
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/f.....index.html

    Pentagon Report Gives Lie to Surge Success
    http://www.juancole.com/2007/0.....lings.html

    The truce between the Mahdi Army and the US military has broken down, putting a question mark over the future of the ‘surge’.
    http://www.juancole.com/2008/0.....es-in.html

  4. 6

    proud leftist spews:

    4
    Damn,Stamn, you truly are stupid. CNN has people like Wolf Blitzer; MSNBC has Joe Scarborough. The media is so slanted to the right that the only way the American people can possibly get a glimpse of the truth is to turn to the blogosphere. The American people deserve better than what the rightwing media delivers them. BTW, how’s your music career going? Another gigless night, I’m guessing?

  5. 7

    spews:

    @5
    You apparently didn’t click through and read his post, because he addresses some of the myths that you’re referring to. The increase in U.S. troops (which is what has always been the “surge” has referred to) is not what caused the reduction in violence.

  6. 8

    proud leftist spews:

    7
    We can wring our hands, howl to the moon, shake our fists–but, you know what? The puppy-barbecuers on the right will never get it. They don’t think–they take orders from Rush, O’Reilly, and Hannity. Reason doesn’t matter in their world. Ideology trumps all. Ideology, my rightwing friends, does not typically reflect intelligence.

  7. 9

    David spews:

    You apparently didn’t click through and read his post, because he addresses some of the myths that you’re referring to. The increase in U.S. troops (which is what has always been the “surge” has referred to) is not what caused the reduction in violence.

    According to Juan Cole. The views on this are all over the place. See:

    http://www.prospect.org/cs/art....._the_surge

    Also see Bing West here:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801u/iraq-update

    West has been an outspoken critic of the war’s execution.

    And Juan Cole also made these comments in 2003, for what it’s worth:

    I remain convinced that, for all the concerns one might have about the aftermath, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the murderous Baath regime from power will be worth the sacrifices that are about to be made on all sides. The rest of us have a responsibility to work to see that the lives lost are redeemed by the building of a genuinely democratic and independent Iraq in the coming years.”

    “I don’t think this Iraq war was a last resort, and I became increasingly uncomfortable with the way the war fever was whipped up with very dubious claims by powerful Iraqi expatriates and the right in Washington. However, and this is the big “H,” I have lived with Baathist Iraq since I got into the Middle East field, and being a specialist in Shiism and a friend to Iraqi Shiites meant that I knew exactly what the Saddam regime had done to them. So, I refused to come out against the war. I was against the way the war was pursued–the innuendo, the exaggerations, the arrogant unilateralism. But I could not bring myself to be against the removal of that genocidal regime from power.

  8. 10

    YLB spews:

    Nice piece from Prof. Cole. Handy to have around when a right wing fool like the Pooper starts running the old Shrubya loving talking points tape.

  9. 11

    spews:

    @9
    For starters, I can’t find that link. It’s possible he said that, but it does not appear anywhere but on sites accusing him of saying it.

    Second, everyone supported getting rid of Saddam. It’s the method of how to do it that we disagreed on.

  10. 12

    spews:

    @9
    And I still think you’re confusing two things. The situation on the ground did improve in 2007 and 2008. And the counter-insurgency tactics used under Petraeus and Gates were clearly better than what was being done before. But the additional troops sent to Iraq during the “surge” were not the primary reason the situation on the ground improved. It was related to what was happening between Shiite and Sunni factions in Baghdad, and also a changing perspective from the Sunnis in western Iraq on their alliance with Saudi fighters.

  11. 13

    keepitsimple spews:

    It seems the dems want America to embrace Mr.Obama. Mr Obama wants us to embrace Mr.Obama. A man that has done nothing for this country. They have all placed total confidence a feel assured that thier choice of change will be the perfect man for this country.I am not saying that we shouldn’t support the PEBO, Because we are all in this country together. I would like to ask a few questions. Where have all the heroes gone? Where is our patriotism? You talk about iraq, Where is america’s guts,In our wallet,Just think about this. Taking your freedom for granted is the American way.You can’t buy it. you can’t beg for it,And you can’t steal it. Freedom is a gift from so many soldiers who do go and take thier job serious without question And some give thier lives.No the war was not executed the way most of us think it should have been.Could you have done a better job? I am thankful to Mr.Bush, He is still the commander and chief until January 2009.This war is all about religion, To the entire middle east. We are nothing but infadels to the muslim nations.The reason I am grateful,Is that he had enough forsight to see if this regime wasn’t stopped in it’s tracks, America itself would be the next war zone. So don’t pray that the war will succeed. Don’t stand for what you really know to be the right thing to do. But Don’t cry to Mr. Bush when the muslim nation is on your doorstep wanting to imprison and do away with your family.That’s when we all wake up and smell the coffee,notice what is really going on.Sleeper cells that are already in this country,just waiting to come against it,While we bicker and find fault with the only Leader we have at this time.THEY HATE US. Because we have the freedom to choose our own way of belief. Wake up! Take a stand. Show some respect for this country.Our military, our Leaders.WHERE HAS AMERCAS INTEGRITY GONE? It dosen’t really matter who is leading .We should pray and ask God to lead and guide them for our own sakes,For our kids sake,Grandkids and for the future of a free America, And a peaceful world. God Help Us

  12. 14

    David spews:

    @11 It’s possible he said that, but it does not appear anywhere but on sites accusing him of saying it.

    I remain convinced that, for all the concerns one might have about the aftermath, the removal of Saddam Hussein and the murderous Baath regime from power will be worth the sacrifices that are about to be made on all sides. The rest of us have a responsibility to work to see that the lives lost are redeemed by the building of a genuinely democratic and independent Iraq in the coming years.”

    From: http://www.juancole.com/2003/0.....of-so.html

    “I don’t think this Iraq war was a last resort, and I became increasingly uncomfortable with the way the war fever was whipped up with very dubious claims by powerful Iraqi expatriates and the right in Washington. However, and this is the big “H,” I have lived with Baathist Iraq since I got into the Middle East field, and being a specialist in Shiism and a friend to Iraqi Shiites meant that I knew exactly what the Saddam regime had done to them. So, I refused to come out against the war. I was against the way the war was pursued–the innuendo, the exaggerations, the arrogant unilateralism. But I could not bring myself to be against the removal of that genocidal regime from power.“

    From: http://www.juancole.com/2003/0.....-what.html

    The first statement was made in March of 2003, just before the war began. Cole is pretty clear about his position re the war about to begin. There were a lot of people not in agreement with this sentiment.

    The second statement was made in July of 2003.

    These and similar statements can all be found on his blog.

  13. 15

    YLB spews:

    13 – A lot of bullshit so easily refuted it’s not worth the energy.

    All I can say is: look at a map. Look where America IS. Look on the west side and the east side of America.

    Now tell me if you can defend this country a heck of a lot easier then pissing away a few trillion dollars and wasting a lot of lives and goodwill in the process.

  14. 16

    spews:

    @15

    By your logic, it was not a good idea for the US to have become involved in the war against Germany in WWI, or WWII. Afterall, it isn’t as if they were going to physically invade our country. Better to have defended our own lands right here, where we belong, eh?

  15. 17

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    6. proud leftist spews:
    4
    Damn,Stamn, you truly are stupid. CNN has people like Wolf Blitzer; MSNBC has Joe Scarborough.

     
    And this is proof that cnn and msnbc leans right?
     
    Have you ever considered getting professional help? Are you keeping current with your meds?

  16. 19

    rhp6033 spews:

    I-Burn @ 16: Get your history straight.

    The U.S. did not initially declare war on Germany after Pearl Harbor, despite lots of provocations by both the U.S. and Germany against each other. The U.S. had stretched it’s ostensible “neutrality” beyond all meaningful recognition, excluding German shipping from the the Carribean and the Gulf of Mexico, and using U.S. ships to escort lend-lease convoys to Britain. On the German side, German subs sank two U.S. ships on such convoy duty, including the U.S.S. Reuben James a month or two before Pearl Harbor.

    The U.S. did not include Germany or Italy in it’s Declaration of War on Dec. 8th, 1941. Instead, on Dec. 11th, it was Germany and Italy that declared war on the U.S.! It’s not really clear why Hitler did this, as Germany wasn’t required to do so under the Triparte Pact, which only came into affect if Japan were ATTACKED by the U.S., not the other way around. But once Germany declared war on the U.S., of course, the U.S. responded by declaring war on Germany and Italy, also.

    Of course, Hitler might have declared war on the U.S. on Dec. 8th, except that he was probably a little preoccupied by the Soviet counter-offensive at Moscow which had begun on Dec. 5th, supported by Siberian troops armed with Katyusha rocket launchers and T-34 tanks (an unpleasant suprise for the Germans).