According to Democratic attorneys, 200 of the individuals on the GOP’s felon list, are alleged to be convicted felons, solely on the basis of a “Convicted Felon Report” (CFR). Now that might seem reasonable considering the report’s title, but apparently these documents list the information with which an individual was charged, but not necessarily the crime for which the individual was ultimately convicted, nor whether that conviction was for a felony or misdemeanor.
Here’s just one example of how these reports might be misleading:
To a layman, the CFR clearly shows that Ms. Steinman was convicted of a felony. But in a sworn declaration, the Skagit County Clerk’s Office states that Ms. Steinman was only convicted of a misdemeanor. (She apparently cut a deal, pleading to a lesser charge.)
Ooops.
How could the GOP attorneys make such a mistake? Well, one hint can be found in the email correspondence between GOP attorney Eric Martin and Dem attorney William Rava. During one exchange on this subject, Martin admits:
“I don’t practice criminal law, so maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.”
Ooops.
You’d think maybe with all the money the GOP has thrown at this case, they might have thought to hire a criminal attorney to advise them on the whole felon thing, huh? But then, the Republicans have always enjoyed a powerful sense of confidence that only their unique blend of ignorance and arrogance can bring.
Anyway, the Democrats have filed a “Motion to Clarify“, asking the court to rule that a CFR alone is not sufficient proof of a felony conviction. They have requested that Judge Bridges rule on the motion first thing Monday morning, before the trial starts.
excellent use of both smoke and mirrors Goldy. what about Nicole’s deposition?
Golly, on their worst day our guys digging on this seem about the same level as KC elections guys on their best day.
Why doesn’t our gov’t police this stuff?
Goldy–
I’m sure as evidence is processed, re-processed and re-re-processed….we are going to see some alleged felons removed on both sides.
Do you believe ALL the Dems felon list is 100% perfect????
I didn’t think so…in fact, it’s far from perfect.
Since the Dems have spent more than the R’s on your slam-dunk case Goldy….one has to pause and wonder…WHY!!???
Dude @1,
A) Do you have a copy of the deposition? ‘Cause I don’t.
B) From what I saw in the Times, it was all old news.
C) What am I… your blog monkey?
Cynical @3,
Of course both sides made mistakes. But if you read the email thread in the Motion, you’ll see that the D’s raised this issue with the R’s some time ago, and if a bunch of their felons get tossed out because they failed to respond, that’s their problem.
Blah Blah Blah See you all Monday at Court! I wouldn’t miss this for the world!
Goldy, Kind of like some us unwisely defending GOP scoundrals, you gotta know when its time to cut the ties.
You all might prevail in Wash state kangaroo courts, but your goose is cooked in the court of public opinion
omg, I open your site and B A M another cartoon. why are you so hung up on the felon issue? There is bigger news today. lets talk about Nicole. and why did they open absentee ballots and then re-seal them? and WHO printed ballots and took them home?
Goldy–
Why would you think the R’s would fail to respond???
I told you PINHEADS months ago when you were mouthing off that the R’s had no case blah, blah, blah…that rather than sit on your asses speculating about the law, that you needed to get busy and start collecting hard evidence. Remember that???
Well, you wasted a lot of time….then all of a sudden it was HOLY SHIT!! we better get our Donkey-Asses movin’ NOW!!!
All I can tell ya Goldy is I TOLD YOU SO!! It takes a long time to figure out how to ID and validate felons…extremely complex. For all the Dems complaining about the R’s incompetence, you will be whining and twisting to defend the ineptness of your own crowd next week. Good luck though.
Hey Goldy, rather than play with your fucking puppy, why don’t you try to ID some felons this weekend!!! Oh, that would mean getting your hands dirty. ICKY!! What the hell, just keep scoopin’ puppy shit all weekend…that’s probably more productive for you at this point.
Leave it to you Goldy to say something like if it was 400 felons it would be bad but since it might only be 200 it’s really no big deal.
The argument here is whether we as WA State residents in all confidence can say Gregoire won. Judging by her ratings and Gary Locke’s faux paux the other day we don’t have that confidence. That is the voters argument.
The legal argument should be are there enough disputed votes to cause concern. I think even you would say yes.
Illegally enhanced votes.
Double votes.
Felon voters.
Vote talleys that don’t match.
Talley cover ups.
Biased vote canvassing before the hand recount.
Absentee ballots run through the machines.
Enhanced ballots run through the machines.
Questionable ballots counted.
Rock solid ballots not counted.
Every one of these points can be argued a little bit one way or another but that doesn’t mean that they don’t exist. Each and every one of the points above exist to some point. When somebody boils it down to just those points it changes the view a little doesn’t it. I don’t care if Rossi wins in court or not. Just like Bush I don’t think he’ll do a very good job, I think it would be better than Gregoire but he’s a politician. The argument for me is trusting that the outcome of the election was legitimate.
In all honesty politicians think more about themselves than they do about the people they are supposed to represent. With this thinking we are never going to get what we should out of them. Also, voters and pundits are so worried about being “out of power” that the cower from voting for somebody that might do a better job but would swing the all powerful majority the other way.
If our politicians worked for what was best for us as a populace and society the arguments we are having on your blog would not exist. There might be some philisophical differences but those would be taken care of at the polling place.
How many times have you heard a local candidate say “I’m pro choice,” or “I’m pro-life.” That doesn’t mean crap at the local level because they aren’t deciding that policy. We should be hearing things like, “I’m pro income tax,” or “I’m pro greenspace.” Things that they are actually going to be able to do something about. “Well what do you think about the Iraqi war Mr. Local Councilperson?” Who gives two shits? Is that local councilperson going to be able to change national policy in his/her perspective office? No. Those arguments and questions are just there to try to tug the heart strings and obfuscate the real issues.
Ok, before the trial starts let’s hear your predictions for the trial so if you are wrong the rest of us can flaunt them in your face and mock you.
I myself offically predict that the case will be decided in favor of Republicans. There will be a few Republican bombshells and perhaps one or two pseudo bombshells from Democrats. Dean Logan will resign.
Of course, I could be wrong.
The GOP’s proportional analysis concerning illegal votes will be thrown out because their data is not reliable enough to meet the Frye test, due to obvious cherrypicking.
Arguments about whether King County properly reconciled or handled its paperwork will be rejected due to lack of evidence that it resulted in illegal votes or changed the results.
The blank ballot issue will be rejected due to lack of evidence that any of those ballots were improperly introduced into the election.
The GOP cannot provide “clear and convincing “evidence to support the challenge. They lose.
Mr. C shuts up (I know, wishful thinking)
Stefan goes apoplectic and bursts a blog-vessel.
My prediction: Rossi = toast, both in Wenatchee and ultimately in Olympia.
But nothing will stop the hard right whining. Earlier statements of support and hope will be forgetten as the right turns on Judge Bridge for not delivering the correct result.
Second prediction: Freed of the yoke of gov-in-waiting, Rossi will forget his earlier pledge and go on to run for Senate in 2006. He’ll lose.
Third prediction: (circa 2008) Dino who?
Goldy,
““I don’t practice criminal law, so maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.””
You don’t practice criminal law either. At least this person admitted they could be wrong.
Wayne@11–
That was pretty clever…
If Rossi loses, I probably will shut up (no promises) until of course the Feds come in and do their thing. And rest assured, they will be coming in when this contest is over. Just like Wisconsin…only worse.
Predictions–
1) R’s win (I’m still only about 70% certain of that though).
2) Huenneken’s gets pummelled and resigns.
3) Logan tries to survive but eventually gives up his futile effort. Makes a career change and finally lives his dream of being a Weird Al Yankovic impersonator. Logan learns to play the accordian too!
4) Gregoire goes into private law practice and then is named Dean of some Law School.
5) Rossi becomes Governor…after 2006 Election when R’s regain control of the Senate and the House is a draw, Rossi successfully brings meaningful tax and spending reforms.
6) Rossi, within one week of taking office terminates every at will State employee. Rehires some after extensive interview process.
Oh..one last prediction.
Goldy decides to no longer be a JINO
Pursues his Jewish faith as agressively as he pursued the LEFTIST PINHEADED BULLSHIT on this blog.
Becomes Rabbi Goldstein and is good friends with Daniel Lapin.
And he takes that sweet puppy to the pound in a fit of anger as Gregoire is pulled kicking and screaming by the Mariner Moose from the Governors Mansion.
6) Rossi, within one week of taking office terminates every at will State employee. Rehires some after extensive interview process.
They tried something like this in Baghdad. Didn’t quite work out.
Scott @ 12
“Third prediction: (circa 2008) Dino who?”
Dino who???? Pulllleeezze. . . everyone will remember Dino—you know, the adorable pet on the Flintstones!
dj: Now that’s funny!
There were errors, there were omissions. I have not seen one shread of evidence that there were acts committed affirmatively to introduce fraudulent votes. I classify the felons and dead as omissions- didn’t check them out. Lots of talk about what someone might have done. (Chards, Mr C.) No evidence of what they did do.
And remember Gregiore and Sims are not allies, they ran against each other. There was no strong push in King Co. for her. Recall many Sims supporters wrote his name in on the ballot.
I believe the real strategy here is not to get Rossi in (my prediction- no way) but to undercut Gregiore and Sims. If the R’s ran a candidate with any strength (hint not David Irons) they’d beat Sims handily.
“The Berendt” totally lost it on the Carlson show tonight. Did Paul have a rough day? LOL Pauls new mantra “The uncounted ballots hurt Gregoire more”
The dems new story is “It was an innocent mistake, it wasn’t their fault. The dam republican owned company diebold makes faulty machines.”
Is that where Paul is going with Nicole Way’s deposition? Sounded like a tad bit of like a white surrender flag to me.
Paul is a real trooper tho, he’s been rode hard and put away wet. All for an ungrateful crissy. FYI, Michele Gregoire is going to work for mommy now. Enviromental Policy Advisor. That makes Mommy, Daddy and now baby all on the state GOV payroll. Do we have a Monarchy?
although I would guess she is just helping baby get her foot in the door before they are booted out in a few months.
you chards should know about being kicked out….how many husbands is it now?
Now that might seem reasonable considering the report’s title, but apparently these documents list the information with which an individual was charged,
Nice start. And there are other reasons the report could be wrong:
1) The criminal charge was dropped
2) A deferred sentence was entered
3) The person voted before being convicted
4) The person was found innocent of the charge
5) And one of the largest, as mentioned above, the person was convicted of a lessor charge.
6) Of course the report could be wrong if the person’s rights were restored.
7) Finally, the person listed is a is different person than the one who voted.
What is the correlation between those charged with a felon and those who were convicted of a felons without their rights evern being restored, I would guess around 30 percent which means 70 percent of the list is useless. But who knows. Rossi should have the burden to prove each one of these. What shoddy work!
You’d think maybe with all the money the GOP has thrown at this case, they might have thought to hire a criminal attorney to advise them on the whole felon thing, huh
That’s funny. I think one of their problems is that almost all of the criminal defense attorneys are democrats. All they have is corporate lawyer types and some insurance defense attorneys.
Goldy, here is my best efforts at two cents comment on this matter.
It is entirely possible that Annette Steinman was mistakenly sentence on a felony sentence form, instead of a misdemeanor sentence form. The judgment and sentence form may even say that the charge she was convicted of was a felony.
Here is the link to the court docket for her case:
http://www.courts.wa.gov/jis/j.....#038;dgt=4
Look at Docket # 27 on 08-22-2002 for the Judgment & Sentence & Warrant of Committment. There is a notation for a $500.00 crime victim penalty assessment. An assessment of $500.00 for this fund is mandatory for all felonies and is only charged on felony convictions.
This sort of mistake happens a lot. People will be convicted of a gross misdemeanor, but will be sentenced as if it were a felony.
The “Convicted Felon Report” does show the right crime for which Ms. Steinman was convicted: Attempted Second Degree Burglary. However, it incorrectly shows this as a felony instead of a misdemeanor — probably because the judgment and sentence incorrectly shows this as a felony, instead of a misdemeanor.
Maybe the Dems will force the GOP to get copies of the actual judgment and sentence forms. But these will likely have the same mistakes on them. Imagine — a superior court judge being asleep on the bench, and giving a felony sentence to someone actually convicted of a misdemeanor.
Wonder if Judge Bridges has ever made this same mistake? Would the GOP stand a better chance if the Honorable John M. Meyer of Skagit County were trying this case?
Maybe the Dems will force the GOP to get copies of the actual judgment and sentence forms. But these will likely have the same mistakes on them.
Thats largely because these notations are made by clerks as a general reference only. It was never thought to be an official criminal record.
Alot of these are only going to be figured out if one looks at the criminal file itself.
And here is my attempt.. she got a revised conviction for two things:
RCW 9A.52.030 – Burglary 2nd Degree
RCW 9A.28.020 – Criminal Attempt
Now, we see how these interact… first, Criminal Attempt
RCW 9A.28.020 specifies that an item is a step lower than what the original offense was. Therefore… Class B turns into Class C, etc.
Now, we see what the other was…
RCW 9A.52.030 is a Class B felony.
Wow, seems the the republicans were right. Sorry goldy. Back to Law School with you!
Mr Cynical @ 8
“I told you PINHEADS months ago … that you needed to get busy and start collecting hard evidence. Remember that???
Well, you wasted a lot of time….then all of a sudden it was HOLY SHIT!! we better get our Donkey-Asses movin’ NOW!!!
All I can tell ya Goldy is I TOLD YOU SO!! It takes a long time to figure out how to ID and validate felons…extremely complex. For all the Dems complaining about the R’s incompetence, you will be whining and twisting to defend the ineptness of your own crowd next week. Good luck though.”
You don’t get it, do you, Cynical? If you read the text of the motion, the Democrats point out that they did obtained copies of the judgment of conviction for every individual on the WSDCC list of ineligible ex-felon voters.
In other words, for the 200 individuals specified in the motion, the Republicans fucked up by failing to obtain the proper source documents. The Republican legal team is freaking inept! The Democrats beat the Republicans at their own “felon hunting” game.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that the Republicans spent less money :-)
The little boys on the R side have cried “wolf” so many times I don’t even listen to them anymore. The only thing I see in Way’s deposition is error by election officials. Error does not equal fraud. The errors in King County helped Rossi more than Gregoire. If King County had done things right, Rossi wouldn’t have won any of the counts.
bmvaughn @ 27
I’ll be damned. Your right. Her conviction for attempted 2nd degree burglary was a Class C Felony.
I know Glen Hoff, her public defender, and he is pretty competent. He used to do labor law in Seattle, now it looks like he is into criminal defense. I don’t think he would have let his client get sentenced for a felony, when the conviction was actually for a gross misdemeanor.
So who are the idiots that thought attempted 2nd burglary was just a misdemeanor? Or was the conviction for attempted attempted 2nd degree burglary?
Richard @ 30
Interesting. What we know from the Declaration by the Skagit County Clerk is that Ms. Steinman “was not convicted of a felony” but was convicted of a “gross misdemeanor.”
Geez, it is no wonder that some people who take a “tour” through the criminal justice system are unaware that they cannot vote without having their rights restored.
Patrick@29–
You honestly believe that INTENTIONALLY falsifying required documents is merely an error????
So if I INTENTIONALLY PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE AND THEN KICK YOUR ASS, it’s ok because it’s just an “error”???
Get real Mr. Dreamer.
bmvaughan@27–
Sheesh…you get the superslueth award for tonight!
Cynical go to bed, it is way after your 10pm judge decried internet pass. Remember, no surfing or phone sex after 10pm
Fuck U2!!
Reply to 32, Oliver Wendell Holmes wrote in “The Common Law” that “even a dog knows the difference between being stepped on and kicked.” The KC elections bureacrats stepped in it, but it wasn’t a kick aimed at Rossi. They were fuck-ups, but they didn’t steal the election for Gregoire. Their screwups actually helped Rossi in the initial counts, because it was Democratic votes that weren’t counted.
In reply to the second part of your post, you are more than welcome to try to intentionally punch me in the face and kick me in the ass, with the understanding that I get to try (and will) do the same to you. You name the time and place, buddy.
oooooooh, mr cynical…so touchy? Don’t you understand good ole humor? As the court session gets closer you had better take all of your medications, especially your high blood pressure one. I would imagine that when Bridges laughs the Republicans case ‘out the door’ you will be a prime candidate for major problems. Is your health insurance at BIAW up to date?
U2–
It’s you that doesn’t understand the humor dude.
I was just giving you a new name.
Relax…
U2 needs to visit http://www.shantimai.com
and QUICK!!
lol at Mr. C. congratulations on a nice site mr. c. but really not in my area of likes. Did you make that site with the help of the BIAW or with all of Chardonnay’s alimony checks?
Maybe I’m wrong,…