Maria Cantwell is now a blogger!
Check this out at the Northwest Progressive Institute’s Official Blog.
I cannot support what amounts to a minimum wage penalty for over 122,000 Washington minimum wage earners. Why would the federal government work to lower the maximum wage rather than setting a minimum protection?
I am not buying this cynical Republican ploy.
And blogging with an edge!
WOOHOO!!! How exciting.
Raise the minimum wage in WASH State to 50 bucks an hour, plus full benefits. hehe, JCH
Just a reminder for all you Jew killing lefties so you dont forget where you come from:
Exclusive.
Was the Jew killer a conservative or liberal. In todays Seattle Times we have the following quote:
Haq’s friend said he couldn’t believe the timid, “geeky” man he knew from the tutoring center was capable of such violence.
“Are you sure we’re talking about the same person?” he said Sunday………….
He said Haq was not a devout Muslim and often complained that the Tri-Cities were too politically conservative.
“I’m beginning to think I was his only friend in the Tri-Cities. I don’t recall him hanging out with anybody else.”
Now for the other side we turn to Goldy’s story from yesterday:
Psssssssssstttttttt…….
Ah it looks like the story was all a bunch of hot air. Well there you have it. Enjoy all you Nazi Libs.
Why the fuck shouldn’t tips be taxable? It’s money you receive for doing work?
And what fucking business does gummint have stealing from a person’s heirs. Greedy assholes…
Does Maria also explain her vote AGAINST expansion of drilling for oil in the Gulf of Mesko? I guess she likes high gas prices and doens’t give a fuck about the little guy. That and she doesn’t have a fucking clue about commodity market economics.
7
“Jew killing lefties”
Hey Dan, before I start poking holes in your argument (if I can call it that), a couple of questions:
1. Are you Jewish?
2. Why do you care so much about Jews and their welfare? That is, do you have a reason for your outrage, or is it just faked and/or blind hatred of the “other” (here: Liberals)?
Now, as for your “logic”, let’s examine the quote at the heart of your argument:
From this, you draw no conclusion, other than the suggestion that, since this mentally ill murderer apparently thought the Tri-Cities were “too politically conservative” that could not be himself a conservative.
Please try to do better next time.
From this, you draw no conclusion, other than the suggestion that, since this mentally ill murderer apparently thought the Tri-Cities were “too politically conservative” that could not be himself a conservative.
Please try to do better next time.
Commentby Dr. E— 8/3/06@ 8:29 pm
Of course Dr. E. Liberalism is a mental disorder. You have to admit that Jew killers have a lot of liberal tendencies. Take for example Hitler. His ideas and actions were much more aligned to modern liberalism then conservatism. Hitler believed in gun control,hated Christianity and believed in social engineering. He truely was a lefty ahead of his time.
13
Dan, please. Are you really that ignorant? Since you’re making such broad claims, give me some proof:
1. How is Liberalism a mental disorder? What are its manifestations?
2. If Liberalism is a mental disorder, were the founders of this nation mentally ill? If not, why?
3. On what basis do you make the claim that Hitler was somehow “liberal”? I’ll be very interested to hear how you came up with that idea, if indeed it is your own.
JCH
“National SOCIALISTS”
Craig, you already admitted your stupidity. Do you have to go an prove it to us? Where did you get that “proof”, here? I have the feeling that that’s where Dan gets his “ideas”.
From the NYT bestseller for 12 weeks on why librulism is a mental disorder. Pretty much nails it:
http://www.nrbookservice.com/p.....d_cd=c6621
Wow, JCH is even stupider than he previously admitted.
Mark, you’re showing your true colors. Did you get your “annihilate the Muslims” routine from Mike Wiener (“Savage”)? I know you must be busy doing your homework from the previous thread, but since you brought it up, let me add to your homework the following questions, from above:
1. How is Liberalism a mental disorder? What are its manifestations?
2. If Liberalism is a mental disorder, were the founders of this nation mentally ill? If not, why?
3. On what basis do you make the claim that Hitler was somehow “liberal”? I’ll be very interested to hear how you came up with that idea, if indeed it is your own.
23
Sorry, Craig. I mean, I pretty much set you up for that one.
Craig, try to focus here: What’s the comparative form of “stupid”?
“I am not buying this cynical Republican ploy,” says Cantwell, the cheap labor corporate Dem.
Cantwell(D-Mexico,voted for NAFTA and CAFTA) is the perfect judge of a cynical ploy. She supports increasing the minimum wage while she sends American jobs to cheap labor countries. NAFTA and CAFTA have been great for the working class.
And if the job can’t be outsourced she has a solution for that as well; Cantwell(D-Mexico, voted against building a fence on the Mexican border)wants more cheap labor illegal aliens here to drive down the value of labor.
Guess supporting a minimum wage of less than $8/hr makes up for her cheap labor record, right?
Dr E, when are you going to tell us who blew up the twin towers?
AF
What’s your position on outsourcing and cheap illegal labor?
AF
I hope you’re not going to prove as impervious as redneck. I’ve already provided you with leads to do a bit of research. Did you go check them out? That’s the only way you’ll know if alternate theories are full of shit or not.
31, E, I’ll answer when you tell me who blew up the twin towers.
32, E, just summarize the research and tell us who blew up the twin towers.
You’re a lying scumbag. OK, I’ll be little nicer. You’re so delusional, you don’t know you’re lying.
Commentby For the Clueless— 8/3/06@ 6:05 pm
Another brilliant retort; you are as stupid as GBS.
Now Mike McGreedy on the other hand turned SafeCo around by cutting head count, withdrawing from expensive markets and outsourcing work to India.
Commentby For the Clueless— 8/3/06@ 3:01 pm
Maybe more stupid; at least GBS doesn’t wind up a pro-Cantwell(D-Mexico, voted for NAFTA and CAFTA) post with a complaint about outsourcing. You two aren’t bright enough to qualify as moonbats.
34
You don’t get it, do you? The whole issue here is the pursuit of the truth, not about ideology or dogma. So let me make this as clear to you as possible: until the truth is unequivocally known, neither I nor anyone—including the government—can tell you irrefutably who the guilty party (or parties) is/are. I’m arguing that the truth is not unequivocally known, by any measure. I’m not your secretary, so I’m not going to summarize anything for you. Go and do some reading. I’ve given you the leads, what’s your excuse?
Now, back on topic, as far as Cantwell is concerned, she’s right to say that this was a cynical Republican ploy. It’s not hard to see the cynicism, you don’t need to be a Senator, a liberal, etc. “You want the pittance of an increase? Fine, let us borrow more money to give the wealthy and super-wealthy a tax break.” I’m wagering that most conservatives couldn’t tell us why we have an estate tax, or what the philosophy was that posited the need for an estate tax.
Okay, so she voted against the bill to take care of 122 thousand Washington workers. High School kids and new employees get minimum wage.
Is she so clueless that she doesn’t understand those same people plus 6 million more are going to get absolutely slammed next year without the income tax deduction for sales tax that is 8% plus.
It’s going to cost me around a thousand bucks…… With Senators like her who needs enemies?
It fucking doesn’t matter why there is a stupid estate tax. The bastards that NEED to be paying it – never fucking do!
Like Bill Gates, Schultz, Warren Buffett, and every other damn billionaire. Their money is safely locked away in charity foundations that will be forever ran by their heirs.
How much did Teresa Heinz Kerry pay in income taxes last year? The year before? Hardly nothing. Her money is all locked away in tax free municipal bonds…….. Roger Rabbit pays more in income taxes than she does!
38, Alright, Dr E, if you can’t tell us who blew up the twin towers maybe you can tell us how NAFTA and CAFTA helped the working class. Cantwell( D-Mexico, voted for NAFTA and CAFTA)might get asked that during the campaign and she could use some help from you.
Dr E, if I tell you that the estate tax is a good idea will you at least answer my question about NAFTA and CAFTA?
36, Looks like “DR” E is not going to tell you!! BTW, effective immediately, I’m am now DR. “JCH” Pat Kennedy!! Now how easy was that???
Commentby \”DR\” JCH \”Pat Kennedy\” [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 8/3/06@ 10:18 pm
Dr E is full of questions but doesn’t seem to have any answers. Maybe Bush blew up his computer.
Sure. I think NAFTA and CAFTA were terrible ideas. They haven’t helped the middle class in this country one iota.
By the way, AF, if I get to ask Cantwell any questions, I have one that needs to be asked of her:
Given that the filibuster was only way to prevent Alito from being nominated to the Supreme Court and thus ensuring a conservative majority on that court for several decades, why on earth did you vote for cloture?
I don’t give a flying rat’s ass about any of the reasons she gave for voting against his nomination after having voted for cloture, and you can read a couple of pages worth in the Congressional Record. It was all meaningless.
“Maybe Bush blew up his computer.”
Just let that raisin-brained rat bastard try. I don’t think he could find it unless I put a huge sign over it that said “Kumpewtir”. He can’t find WMDs that he knew for sure were there, why should I be worried about him finding my computer?
BTW, don’t invite “Yo Blair!” over to dinner. He has horrible table manners. Eats with his mouth open and talks with a mouth full of food. Where did they get this guy?
44, E, guess your computer is alright after all. All joking aside, I’m wondering why you liberals are giving Cantwell a free ride on NAFTA and CAFTA.
so the tip credit clause is the only issue?
So those earning tips take precedent ove those who do not?
Just asking here, i have no dog in this fight.
i wonder what the real impact is. The exclusion stipulates that employers can use the tip credit to reduce the employees income as long as their tips make up the difference, effectively assuring them minimum wage at the least. If the person makes good tips, it is an effective reduction, but it is not 2 bucks an hour.
Yea i dont like the exclusion, not for the people who get tips, but for the fact that it trumps the state law. I think states rights take precedence.
And in that regard, there is no absolute consensus whether the exclusion has the ability to override state law. So i dont mind it being defeated for now if it allows a better law to emerge.
Karl,
If you are a Washington State resident, you have a dog in the fight.
Included in this bill was the continuance of the IRS deduction for the State Income Tax. It’s going to affect over 6 million people. It hurts the poor and the working class the worst, of course. Next year, we won’t get the deduction and our federal income taxes are going up. For me it’s around a thousand bucks.
A thousand bucks that I can ill afford to pay on my military retirement and my VA disability checks.
Maria Cantwell forgot who she works for in Washington when she voted. Today, she delivered for Harry Reid and I hope he pays her back for her vote, because she just hurt all of us in this state.
i understand, but as i said, i do not have a dog in the fight, and i dont. I dont make tips, i dont make minimum wage and i dont itemize my taxes, so the deduction does not benefit me at all. and i dont have an estate to worry about, nor will my parents give me one so the estate tax has no bearing on me.
So i look at it from it overall merits only.
my basic objection to the bill’s primary issue is the states rights issue. Raise the minimum wage, fine, but dont mess with how state use the systems they already have in place.
The rest of it just illustrates why i hate the laundry list methodology in how our lawmakers make bills.
they take an issue and use it as a hostage or a lure, with no regard for the people it affects. And that is a common practice on both sides of the aisle.
I want the tax provisions renewed and i oppose the estate tax, not for my benefit but for those it helps. And if our lawmakers had any honor they would deal with these issues individually not as part of a package of negotiations.
Karl, everyone in Washington gets the state sales tax deduction, even those who don’t itemize…………
Sgmmac@40/49 Theresa Heinz Kerry paid over $600,000 in 2004, probably more than RR paid, or made in the last couple of years.If you don’t like it contact the municipal corporations she and others invest in to get tax-free income. What the hell are you talking about”State income tax deduction deduction”?
Karl,
I agree with you on the piling lots of items into one bill, but they are all done that way. There is way too much partisian bickering in the other Washington. Today’s bill had something for Democrats and something for Republicans and it still didn’t get through. Shame on them for not negotiating and comprimising.
I found this to be very interesting reading:
COMPARING THE HOUSE MINIMUM WAGE AND ESTATE TAX PROPOSALS
Especially this part:
Further, there are millions of middle-income Americans who will not benefit from the minimum wage increase but who will never accumulate multi-million dollar estates. These individuals will almost certainly lose from the House bill, when the measures ultimately needed to pay for the bill’s sharp cuts in the estate tax are taken into account.
Gordy,
Cantwell voted NO today on a bill that would extend the deduction from the IRS for State Sales Taxes we pay in this state. It also would have changed the Federal Estate taxes and it would have raised the minimum wages in the US, but reduced the wages by tips.
She protected the minimum wages for 122 thousand workers here in Washington, but screwed over 6 million of us out of the IRS deduction.
Today’s bill that Cantwell helped defeat with her NO vote would have:
Been a permanent solution to the federal estate tax, lessening the burden on families, farms and small businesses.
Been an increase in the federal minimum wage.
Been an extension of Washington state sales tax deductibility—saving Washington families an average of $550 a year.
Provided significant tax relief for Washington’s timber industry.
Been an extension of the research and development tax credit benefiting Washington’s innovators.
Been an extension of the college tuition deductions
Been an extension of the deductions teachers may claim for purchasing school supplies.
The Chickenhawk stats have finally been revealed:
Absence Of America’s Upper Classes From The Military
August 4, 2006
Thanks to Sen. John McCain’s youngest son checking into Marine Corps boot camp, the number of Congress members with enlisted children will skyrocket a whopping 50 percent. He joins the armed forces with two other enlisted and a few officer children of those serving in Congress in this nation at war, meaning that in all, about 1 percent of U.S. representatives and senators have a child in uniform.
http://www.abcnews.com
“This is an impressive crowd of the haves and have mores. Some people call you the elite, I call you my base.”
-George W “REP Kennedy REP” Bush
btw, it’s quite fun to watch REP Pat Kennedy’s full-on Budweiser-inspired mental breakdown happen in real time….every day of the week.
Did anyone else happen to catch Mike! McGavick’s statement about the “minimum wage / relief for billionaires” bill today? Here’s a guy who pretends to be a ‘small government’ constitutional conservative, yet he wants to supercede a state initiative with federal law that hurts working people. The fact he even had the guts to lie about his position shows you how important it is to support Cantwell this year.
-She protected the minimum wages for 122 thousand workers here in Washington, but screwed over 6 million of us out of the IRS deduction. –
Right, sgmmac. As if the purpose of the bill was ever designed to help working people. More evidence you’re a liar and a joke. As if we needed any more proof.
Is it just me or has anyone else been enjoying the fact that that lying piece of shit Pope-A-Dope has been mostly absent from HA lately? I think it’s extremely funny how he’s afraid to join in and throw his usual barbs now that he’s getting ready to pretend he’s judge material. Let this be a lesson to you righties. If you come on here with your batshit crazy right wing lies they may come back to haunt you.
Here you go righties another one of your heros shows the true colors of republicanism.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....les04.html
47 – And you’re stupid enough to think Mike :( McGreedy has a chance to win. Buzz off to (un)SP.
2
“Raise the minimum wage in WASH State to 50 bucks an hour, plus full benefits.” Commentby REP Pat Kennedy [D-Bitchslap the Black Security Guard At LAX]— 8/3/06@ 7:57 pm
Yes, this is the CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVE WINGNUT mantra — if we gotta have a minimum wage at all, raise it through the roof! But what does this ploy actually mean?
It means Republicans are only against welfare for low income workers, the disabled, single moms, and other poor people. They are FOR welfare for well-to-do business owners and employers.
Producing virtually anything involves three key economic inputs (i.e., costs): Capital, material, and labor. When business pays workers less than the cost of their subsistence, one of two things happens: Either the worker starves to death (in which case, he can no long supply his labor to the business owner, and production comes to a halt), or taxpayers make up the difference by subsidizing the worker’s costs for housing, food, medical care, and the other necessities of life without which the worker cannot work.
At the current federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour, roughly half of the minimum-wage worker’s subsistence is paid for by taxpayers. To greedy Republicans, increasing their profits by shifting their labor costs to taxpayers is just dandy — and even better under the tax policies of a greedy GOP congress that shift tax burdens from wealthy business owners and investors to wage earners!! This is called “welfare for the rich” and Republicans love it!!
A $50 an hour minimum wage is not necessary to shift the cost of labor inputs in the production equation back to where it belongs — to businesses and entrepreneurs. The minimum wage set by law should closely track the subsistence cost of living. Its purpose is not to make every worker affluent, but to keep greedy employers from enriching themselves by shifting their labor costs to taxpayers. Its purpose is to make BUSINESS, not taxpayers, bear the costs of doing business.
There are other mechanisms workers can (and should) rely on to create worker affluence: Education, increasing skills, raising productivity, and collective bargaining to negotiate for their fair share of what they produce. The 1950s and 1960s demonstrated that EVERYONE is better off when workers do well. But it also is axiomatic that workers can’t be paid more than the value of what they produce, otherwise the enterprise will not be sustainable and the lack of profits will destroy the company and the workers’ jobs.
This is so simple that anybody except mental retards like JCH and Republican propagandists like “pbj” and “americafirst” should be able to understand it.
Hey Wingnuts,
Pat’s seen the light! God Almighty, he’s seen the light!
“We really need to address the burning of fossil fuels,” Robertson said on his “700 Club” broadcast. “It is getting hotter, and the icecaps are melting and there is a buildup of carbon dioxide in the air.”
Take me Jesus! Who’s next? Dobson?
WHY DO CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES HATE WORKERS?
After all, the labor of employees is what makes it possible for cheap labor conservatives to live well without doing any work themselves. You’d think they’d be a little grateful.
Because they begrudge every penny they pay for labor. Every penny. They want to take it ALL. But it’s worse than that: Cheap labor conservatives not only hate workers, they also hate prosperity.
“The Cheap-Labor Conservative ‘Dirty Secret’: They Don’t Really Like Prosperity”
“Maybe you don’t believe that cheap-labor conservatives like unemployment, poverty and ‘cheap labor’. Consider these facts.
“Unemployment was 23 percent when FDR took office in 1933. It dropped to 2.5 percent by time the next Republican was in the White House in 1953. It climbed back to 6.5 percent by the end of the Eisenhower administration. It dropped to 3.5 percent by the time LBJ left office. It climbed over 5 percent shortly after Nixon took office, and stayed there for 27 years, until Clinton brought it down to 4.5 percent early in his second term.
“That same period – especially from the late forties into the early seventies – was the ‘golden age’ of the United States. We sent men to the moon. We built our Interstate Highway system. We ended segregation in the South and established Medicare. In those days, a single wage earner could support an entire family on his wages. …
“These facts provide a nice background to evaluate cheap-labor conservative claims like ‘liberals are destroying America.’ In fact, cheap-labor conservatives have howled with outrage and indignation against New Deal liberalism from its inception in the 1930’s all the way to the present. You can go to ‘Free Republic’ or Hannity’s forum right now, and find a cheap-labor conservative comparing New Deal Liberalism to ‘Stalinism’.
Cheap-labor conservatives opposed virtually all of the New Deal, including every improvement in wages and working conditions.
“Cheap-labor conservatives have a long and sorry history of opposing virtually every advancement in this country’s development going right back to the American revolution.
“Cheap-labor conservatives have hated Social Security and Medicare since their inception.
“Many cheap-labor conservatives are hostile to public education. They think it should be privatized. But why are we surprised. Cheap-labor conservatives opposed universal public education in its early days. …
“Cheap-labor conservatives hate the progressive income tax like the devil hates holy water.
“Cheap-labor conservatives like budget deficits and a huge national debt for two reasons. A bankrupt government has a harder time doing any ‘social spending’ – which cheap-labor conservatives oppose, and . . . wealthy cheap-labor conservatives … buy the bonds and then earn tax free interest on the money they lend the government. … The deficit created by cheap-labor conservatives while they posture as being ‘fiscally conservative’ may count as the biggest con job in American history.
‘Free Trade’, globalization, NAFTA and especially GATT are intended to create a world-wide ‘corporate playground’ where national governments serve the interests of corporations – which means ‘cheap labor’.
“The ugly truth is that cheap-labor conservatives just don’t like working people. They don’t like ‘bottom up’ prosperity, and the reason for it is very simple. Lords have a harder time kicking them around. Once you understand this about the cheap-labor conservatives, the real motivation for their policies makes perfect sense. Remember, cheap-labor conservatives believe in social hierarchy and privilege, so the only prosperity they want is limited to them. They want to see absolutely nothing that benefits the guy – or more often the woman – who works for an hourly wage. …
“See how easy it is to understand these cheap-labor conservatives. The more ignorant and destitute people there are – desperate for any job they can get – the cheaper the cheap-labor conservatives can get them to work. …
“Every time you respond to a cheap-labor conservative … look for the ‘cheap labor’ angle. Trust me, you’ll find it. I can even show you the ‘cheap labor’ angle in things like the ‘war on drugs’, and the absurd conservative opposition to alternative energy. Next, make that moniker – cheap-labor conservatives – your ‘standard reference’ to the other side. One of the last revisions I made to this article was to find every reference to ‘conservatives’, ‘Republicans’, ‘right-wingers’, and ‘righties’, and replace it with ‘cheap-labor conservatives’. … If enough people will ‘get with the program’, it won’t be long before you can’t look at an editorial page, listen to the radio, turn on the TV, or log onto your favorite message board without seeing the phrase ‘cheap labor conservatives’ – and have plenty of examples to reinforce the message. By election day … every politically sentient American should understand exactly what a ‘cheap labor conservative’ is, and what he stands for.”
http://www.conceptualguerilla......php?id=103
EXPOSE: “AMATEUR” SPOOF OF AL GORE MOVIE ON “YOU TUBE” IS ACTUALLY A GOP-EXXON PRODUCTION
Just as the “Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth” was NOT an ad hoc group of veterans trying to tell the public the “truth” about John Kerry’s military service, but rather a slick, well organized, well financed, professional smear operation by Republican operatives … now we learn that an “amateur” spoof of Al Gore’s global warming documentary, “An Inconvenient Truth,” is a slick, well organized, well financed, professional smear operation by Republican operatives and … Exxon.
As reported by ABC News, The Wall Street Journal caught the lying bastards red-handed.
“Al Gore YouTube Spoof Not So Amateurish”
“By JAKE TAPPER
“Aug. 4, 2006 — A tiny little movie making fun of Al Gore, supposedly made by an amateur filmmaker, recently appeared on the popular Web site YouTube.com.
“At first blush, ‘An Inconvenient Spoof’ seemed like a scrappy little homemade film poking fun at Gore and his anti-global warming crusade.
“In the movie, Gore is seen boring an army of penguins with his lecture and blaming global warming for everything, including Lindsay Lohan’s thinness.
“But when the Wall Street Journal tried to find the guy who posted this film — listed on YouTube as a 29-year-old — they found the movie didn’t come from an amateur working out of his basement.
“The film actually came from a slick Republican public relations firm called DCI, which just happens to have oil giant Exxon as a client.
“Exxon denies knowing anything about the film, and DCI says, ‘We do not disclose the names of our clients, nor do we discuss the work we do on behalf of our clients.’ …
“Media ethicists say that if DCI is behind ‘An Inconvenient Spoof,’ they should fess up.
“‘Without the disclosure, it’s really ethically questionable,’ said Diane Forsetta, a senior researcher at the Center for Media and Democracy.
“Another question is why would this movie be done in a seemingly unprofessional way, to be shown alongside YouTube’s mostly amateur videos, which feature lip-synching, odd performances and funny satires?
“‘They want it to look like this came from someone who really believes this, who is really critical of Al Gore and global warming,’ Forsetta said.
“Ana Marie Cox, the Washington editor of Time.com, said Americans have come to distrust the mainstream media. ‘They’re more likely to believe something that comes straight from the horse’s mouth,’ Cox said.
“Public relations firms have long used computer technology to create bogus grassroots campaigns, which are called ‘Astroturf.’ Now these firms are being hired to push illusions on the Internet to create the false impression of real people blogging, e-mailing and making films. … ”
This article is quoted under the Fair Use Doctrine; for complete story and/or copywrite info, see http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/stor.....038;page=1
Now let me ask this:
Why do you humans distrust the mainstream media, but believe everything that lying PR firms are paid to shill to you?
Hey, I’m not complaining — humans are stupidity, and their stupidity will guarantee their extinction — and when THAT happens, rabbits will rule the universe, and I’ll be their king!!! :D :D :D
68
You might also want to read Conservative Nanny State by Dean Baker, if you haven’t already. It’s available free as an e-book. A short snippet from the introduction:
Oops – the URL for the above is:
http://www.conservativenannystate.org
58 Been a permanent solution to the federal estate tax, lessening the burden on families, farms and small businesses.
WTF?? You mean you haven’t heard/read/scene reports that this is complete bullshit? When reporters went looking for folks who’ve lost the family farm because of the estate tax they found virtually NONE.
Stop buying into the authoritarian conservative BS
Those of you hard pressed to understand why the freepers and trolls who hang out here are so impervious to facts and logic, should read this paper. It is waaaay too long to post here (or anywhere for that matter) but here is one of the highlights. The paper defines different types of learning and thinking patterns observed in studys over the past 60 or so years. Fully footnoted and documented in the academic style. Not quite as dense and impenetrable as some, but it has its moments.
Note: any wingnuts that respond will attack the author for publishing this at a swedish university or something equally unrelated and in the process illustrate the point. None will of course, read the larger paper.
http://www.perspectus.se/tjord.....eopol.html
Structures of geopolitical reasoning
Thomas Jordan
[Published as: Occasional Papers 1998:9, Kulturgeografiska Institutionen, Handelshögskolan, Göteborgs Universitet.]
excerpt:
1. Low integrative complexity
Information is interpreted and evaluated according to simple fixed rules. No alternative interpretations are considered. The low level of cognitive differentiation means a very restricted capacity for maintaining ambiguity or tolerating conflicting interpretations. Information that does not fit into existing patterns of evaluation is ignored or rejected. The values, opinions, assumptions, etc. of the individual are not systematically related to each other, but are compartmentalized in the mind. Mutually contradictory cognitive elements may be entertained simultaneously without awareness of contradiction. Information is evaluated according to yes-no/black-white categories, where little allowance is made for gradual differences. Persons reasoning at this level believe that there are right and wrong solutions to problems. There is little room for uncertainty, the individual consequently feels very certain about his/her evaluations. At this level, the propensity is high that individuals react to uncertainty with aggressiveness, thereby warding off a dilemma that can’t be resolved cognitively. Individuals at this level also tend to rely on and refer to external authorities supporting a certain stand.
The simplicity of information processing means that once a piece of information has been categorized in a certain way, it stays there. The room for reinterpretation is extremely restricted. New information is mostly assimilated into existing categories, or is completely rejected. The categories themselves are seldom accommodated to fit experience better. Reasoning at this level tries to get rid of cognitive conflicts as quickly as possible. Information contradicting established interpretations is reinterpreted to fit these patterns or is rejected. Held beliefs are therefore highly resilient to change.
The weakness of interpretative faculties leads to rather stereotyped reaction patterns. Certain types of information lead more or less automatically to certain fixed conclusions. The behaviour is therefore to a high degree controlled by external conditions, with a small degree of freedom to adapt to changing circumstances.
A limited capacity to differentiate categorizations creates sharp limits between categories. Within a category, individual elements are seen as similar. If a person is assigned to a particular group, e.g. the ingroup, a set of stereotyped attributes is attributed to this person. As long as this categorization persists, all information that indicates deviation from this set of attributes is rejected or reinterpreted. However, if a certain threshold is reached, the categorization shifts abruptly, and the person is attributed to another category, with an inverse set of attributes.
Faced with conflict, the low level perceives the positions of the conflicting parties as an either/or problem: the perspectives are (implicitly) irreconcilable.
NEW DISASTER STRIKES FLAILING HARRIS CAMPAIGN
The Miami Herald reports today on the latest disaster to beset the most inept campaigner in recorded history.
“Struggling Harris loses four more campaign staff”
“Amid bad press, four more staff members have left Katherine Harris’ U.S. Senate campaign, for various reasons.”
“BY MARC CAPUTO
“mcaputo@MiamiHerald.com
“Four more staffers have left Katherine Harris’ troubled U.S. Senate campaign, which is putting an upbeat face on the reams of bad publicity that have rolled in with renewed force this week.
“‘We’re excited,’ said spokeswoman Jennifer Marks, touting the endorsement of Florida Right to Life on Wednesday. ‘We have new management, a new staff and we’re energized to see the congresswoman through the election,’ she said.”
(Roger Rabbit comment: Yeah, whatever. I’ll bet the Titanic passengers were “excited” to see water pouring into the portholes, too.)
“Over the past week, some of the staffers left without explanation, but at least one confessed to others of being fed up. … Meantime, the bombshells kept dropping on Harris’ campaign this week.
“Her campaign had to beat back reports of a letter from state and national Republican leaders who said in May she should quit the race. And then her former campaign manager, Glenn Hodas, disclosed that Harris hid a subpoena she received in a federal corruption probe tied to convicted defense contractor Mitchell Wade, who has admitted he gave Harris $32,000 in illegal campaign contributions. … ‘I figured if she’s not telling me this, what else isn’t she telling me? Am I, or people that work for me, at risk?’
“Hodas said … he learned of the newest round of departures … and could only shake his head. ‘This is like a platoon from World War I with a 150 percent attrition rate. I feel like General Pershing watching waves of my good colleagues going to their end ….'”
This article is quoted under the Fair Use Doctrine; for complete story and/or copywrite info, see http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15184810.htm
Meanwhile, back at the ranch (in Crawford, Texas, that is), Bush is doing absolutely nothing to help the woman who stole the 2000 election for him. And why should she think he would? Republicans have a long and sorry track record of fucking over the people who steal elections (or steal money) for them. Let’s put it this way, Republicans are not known for gratitude or rewarding loyalty. If you work your ass off for them, they bitch about having to pay you more than $2 an hour and lay you off without batting an eye.
So why did Harris ever dream that the people who owe her so much, would do squat for her when she’s got her head stuck up the armadillo’s ass?
74
“Those of you hard pressed to understand why the freepers and trolls who hang out here are so impervious to facts and logic, should read this paper.”
I’ve always ascribed it to mental defects, emotional conflicts, and character deficiency.
76
Hey you fucking FREELOADER if you want to advertise on this web site BUY some advertising space, you fucking THIEF!!! You must be a Republican.
58
I see Mac has dropped back into her mode of shilling the GOP party bullshit-of-the-day. Shame on you, Mac. I thought you were better than that.
How much are they paying you to post this crap?
The “minimum wage legislation” passed by the House is a political cannon, aimed at the Democrats.
After opposing any increase in the minimum wage for the better part of a decade, Republican congressmen who are facing a tough re-election fight decided that they needed to give the “appearance” that they were doing something, and appealed the the Republican leadership to pass some sort of minimum-wage increase bill.
The Republican leadership, however, don’t want such a bill to pass. Moreover, they were afraid that it wouldn’t do any good anyway – it appears that lots of Republicans will be losing House seats in November, no matter what they do regarding the minimum wage.
So they loaded it with the ultimate “poison pill” – the elimination of the federal estate tax. For them, it is a win-win scenario. The House is where they are most vulnerable to losing control, so the House Republicans can campaign that they actually voted for an increase in the minimum wage. If it ultimately passes in the Senate, they also get to kill the estate tax, something they are unlikely to be able to do after November. If it loses in the Senate, they can still use the Democrat’s votes against the combined bill to argue that they (the Democrats) voted AGAINST the minimum wage bill. Expect some misleading TV ads on this subject in late October or early November.
But the sales tax deduction is particularly cynical. Having eliminated it from every bill so far this past year, they then throw it in this one, that they hope doesn’t pass? Its aimed squarely at Maria Cantwell, in an attempt to give McGavick some ammunition to use against her. If she votes against the bill, they will argue that she opposed minimum wage increases and the sales tax deduction for Washington residents. If she votes for the bill, they will use it to attack her base, where they believe she is vulnerable, by using third-party groups to attack her on her previous war vote, as well as this vote effectively eliminating the federal estate tax and reducing the pay of food servers througout the state. I expect that Karl Rove is already preparing version “A” and “B” TV ads attacking her, just waiting for the vote to determine which one will be used.
And the tactic of using federal pre-emption to void state laws giving increased protections or benefits to workers has been a particularly obnoxious strategy the Republicans have been using for the last few years. Large employers who have lost the battle in state legislatures over the past two decades have tried to trump the game by getting Congress to “veto” any state legislation which provides better protection to employees. This is just another example.
Roger,
No-one paid me. The easiest way to totally piss off a soldier or (retiree -in my case) is to fuck with their money!
I am highly aggravated over losing the income tax deduction. I am further aggravated by Gregoire’s plan to raise our property taxes – next session. And then of course, we have Gregoire and Leader Chopp who are sole determined to provide free medical care for every child in this state and they are going to tax everyone else to death to do it.
I want a state income tax that is fair and equitable and failing that: Where is the fucking latte tax?
SGMMAC at 82: “I want a state income tax that is fair and equitable and failing that: Where is the fucking latte tax? ”
Hear, Hear!!!!!
But I’m not going to starve the government of what meagre money it can raise in the vain hope that the Republicans will ever allow a state income tax to be enacted in this state.
74
Ken — thanks for the link. I’ve only skimmed the article so far, but will put it on my (ever increasing) pile of reading to do. I particularly like the descriptions of the characteristics of individuals with low integrative complexity:
Sounds like a pretty good (although generalized) description of the GOP (i.e. neo-fascist) propaganda machine and its adherents. It seems to me that anyone with even a moderately low level of integrative complexity should be able to poke holes in the standard right-wing arguments. But, of course there’s far more to Jordan’s arguments than just that, but I suspect it will take a pretty high level of integrative complexity (and systematic thinking) to grasp it in its totality.
Gosh, all this talk about minimum wages and food servers is bringing back a lot of old memories.
I also remember my sister’s first job at a family-owned pizza restaurant. She also was paid ½ the minimum wage, “plus tips”. The owner/manager worked the cash register. The two sons served as the busboy and cook. She was the only waitress, and was prohibited from picking up the tips from the table, because that was the busboy’s job. But she was supposed to split her tips between the busboy and the cook. She worked for one week, and the manager distributed her “portion” of the tips – which he calculated at about $3.50. She quit on the spot, and he refused to pay her any wages because she didn’t gave him two weeks notice.
I was only 17 years old, but I had to go down there and threaten to break the legs of the owner if he didn’t pay my sister the ½ minimum wage for one week’s of work that they owed her. I was in pretty good shape from playing football, swimming competitively and working on a loading dock after school, but facing down three grown men with Sicilian accents, in their own restaurant, was one of the scarier things I had to do in my life. They threatened to kill me if I didn’t leave, but I held my ground, making sure the customers heard the subject of the dispute, until the owner finally threw some money at me from the cash register.
We found out later that this restaurant would run through about ten or twelve waitresses a year using this strategy, and we were apparently the only ones they ever paid. The next day the owner called the police and said I “robbed” them. I lived in a small suburb next to a larger city, so there were only a handfull of police on the force. The investigating officer happened to be a former Boy Scout in my own troop, a couple of years ahead of me, and he knew me well. He took my statement, we laughed a lot, and then he told me this was the first time the restaurant owner ever complained to the police. Most of the time they got complaints from the workers and vendors, saying they had never been paid.
Does anyone know how the low-integrative-complexity paradigm fits in with the authoritarian personality as described by Adorno et al.? Seems to me, at a cursory glance, that the argument could be made that the two are inherently connected.
I think Cantwell’s right. Vote against the House bill on the minimum wage. The GOP majority in the house is toast after the November elections. We can do a much better job in January, passing a bill without all the “poison pills”. At the same time we can get the state sales tax deduction back – it’s not necessarily a one-time offer.
JCH @ 6
So Al joined the Apple Board of Diretors in 2003 but the option issue concerns the issuance of certain stock option grants made between 1997 and 2001. So how exactly does Al Gore have a damn thing to do with it? Or, to put it another way, look it up sometime and you won’t sound like the fucking propagandizing ignoramus that you do.
sgmmac @ 40
“How much did Teresa Heinz Kerry pay in income taxes last year? The year before? Hardly nothing. Her money is all locked away in tax free municipal bonds…….. Roger Rabbit pays more in income taxes than she does!”
That’s a good one. Her wealth (you assert) is in tax-free municipal bonds (which means, BTW, that she’s lending it to our cities, which is, what, a bad thing?) and you think that has something to do with her income? What IS her annual conome? From waht sources is ti derived? How much tax fdoes she pay? You offer an answer to no question that is relevant to making a determination about whether she pays some “fair” amount of income tax.
sgmmac @ 82
“I am highly aggravated over losing the income tax deduction.”
Blame the Republicans.
And as for saying that this bill could have passed, but it was because the sides didn’t negitiate or compromise that it didn’t is just a crock. Both sides know how to write a bill that WILL pass, but the majority writes the bills that will, and the GOP is the majority, and THEY NEVER COMPROMISE. This bill was engineered NOT to pass, so that (as you’re seeing here today) Republicans can say that because of this vote Democrats “voted against raising the minimum wage.”
Bullshit.
Put the Democrats in the majority and the minum wage WILL be increased, and without gutting the eminently fair estate tax, and without allowing restaurtant employers to pay sub-miunimum wage. And workers freakin’ well know it.
Back when I worked in restaurants, which I did for 12 years, Washington state had a minimum wage exepmption for tipped restaurant employees, who could be paid $2.60 an hour. THAT was the floor wage, and when tips were bad or nonexistent, whihc sometimes they are, it wasn’t enough to BREATHE on let alone live on.
85 – That owner must have been a “cheap labor” conservative.
91: He apparantly was a “slave labor” conservative. He didn’t pay at all, unless forced to do so.
By the way, thinking back on it some more, I think I was 16, rather than 17. It was the summer before my sister started college (she was older than I was), but it was after my Dad died in June, so it kind of fell upon me as the “man of the house” to take care of my sister.
I shudder to think what would have happened if my Dad had been alive at the time. He was a pretty quiet man who hated arguments, an engineer by trade. But he had grown up pretty rough during the depression, and if you wanted to keep your lunch at school you had to fight to defend it. He had been in the service twice and seen combat in Korea. If someone had tried to rip off his daughter like that, I’m sure the explosion would have been a sight to behold.
rhp6033
You are full of great stories today. My blood pressure feels better.
Democrats are in full and total control of this state, so Republicans can’t stop a fair and equitable state income tax!
Until then, I will starve the beast!
sgmmac
sgmmac
sgmmac
Wow, what was that about?
Anyway, by “stave the beast” I assume that you mean degrade the schools, cut Madicaid for the poor and the sick, stop building roads, shrink the State Patrol, close some prisons, and so on, right?
No, Daddy, none of that will happen with me boycotting spending my Army retirement and VA disability money. Unfortunately, I’m not Bill Gates. I have very little income to dispose of on a monthly basis………..
I also voted for a school bond in the last election……..
Sgmmac at 93: “rhp6033. You are full of great stories today. My blood pressure feels better.”
Glad to help. We’re here all week. Be sure to tip the servers!
I grew up in Vegas and I always tip extremely well!
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