I am loath to readdress this issue, but clearly there are those on the other side who intend to continue to try milk the election contest for all it’s worth… which given the facts, really isn’t all that much. There will be efforts made over the coming months to “prove” that Dino Rossi really won the election, only this time there won’t be an impartial judge to separate the evidentiary chaff from the chaff. And so as much as I would prefer to concentrate on real issues, I will continue to refute the misinformation coming from the poor losers over at the GOP, and their surrogates on right-wing blogs and talk radio.
For example, yesterday King County Elections released the names of 91 of the 95 absentee ballots that were left uncounted during the November election, and there has been some effort to spin this into yet another tale of official misconduct and corruption, pointing to the fact that a disproportionate number of these ballots came from pro-Rossi precincts… a fact that is old news.
First, let me repeat that if anybody has the right to be angry at KC Elections, it is the people on this list. Their votes weren’t counted, and however unintentional the error may have been, it is still unacceptable. There will always be errors in every election, but this is one that better processes and controls should largely fix. These voters deserve an official apology.
That said, this error in no way changed the outcome of this election. The number of uncounted ballots was smaller than the margin of victory, and as shall be seen, likely had little or no impact on the final spread. Indeed, these ballots represent only 0.01 percent of total ballots cast in King County. The conspiracy theorists would like you to believe that this relatively tiny number of random errors is evidence of malicious intent… but that theory simply isn’t supported by the facts.
To illustrate this, HA’s very own statistical expert, DJ, has analyzed the uncounted ballots by precinct and gender, and his conclusion couldn’t be more undramatic.
Suppose we can assume that the uncounted absentee ballots are drawn randomly from all ballots in their precinct. If we are happy with this assumption, we can do the equivalent of a proportional reduction Monte Carlo simulation. Instead of removing votes from candidates for each ballot, we flip a coin (weighted by the fractions of Gregoire, Rossi and Other votes in the precinct) and then added to the winners total. This can be repeated multiple times and the following distribution of final margin of victory for Gregoire results (beginning with a lead of 133 votes).
Obviously, Rossi never won any of the simulations as there were only 91 new ballots. The median number of votes for Gregoire is 42 (95% confidence interval: 32 to 51) and the median number of votes for Rossi is 46 (CI: 37.0 to 55), so Rossi gains, on average, about 4 votes. The median final margin of victory drags Gregoire back down to 129 (CI: 111 to 147) votes.
Of course, as the Democrats’ expert witnesses proved — to the satisfaction of Judge Bridges, if not (u)SP’s self-appointed expert
dj — what is the distribution if NONE of the 95 voters cast a vote in the governor’s race? (This question was raised by Judge Bridges as I recall.) Poor little me, I’m just a dumb bunny. I’m warm, fuzzy, and cute though.
Unfortunately, that lying piece of crap Steffy can say anything he wants. Doesn’t mean it’s true. And you can bet ANY report by him or any GOP operative will be flawed. But who cares? They lost and there’s nothing they can do about it now.
Perhaps they want to keep the focus off the fact that Tim (horses ass) Eyman’s group got socked with tens of thousands of dollars worth of fines this week! HE HE!
If anyone reads any posts from that dispicable, lying, piece of shit Pudster “Wounded Knee” tell him I’ve responded to his post on the Shiavo Autopsy thread @ 269.
Thanks,
GBS
why believe u goldy…you only want the dem win to smellclean
Roger Rabbit @ 1
A ballot was apportioned among Gregoire, Rossi and “Other” acording to the proportions found for that precinct (but sex-adjusted for the second analysis). The “Other” category included all the overvotes and undervotes. There are, typically, 3 or 4 ballots in the “other” category.
The chance that all of the 91 ballots are undervotes is exceedingly small. In that case the margin of victory for Gregoire is 133.
It is more likely (a probability of 0.02) that none of the ballots are undervotes.
Keep kicking the dead horse, 60% of the voters still feel Rossi won (compared to 39% feel Gregoir won) That means 60% feel disenfranchised. Additionally Gregoir has sucessfully killed her own carreer, the mailman could beat her in 2008.
Goldy: “only this time there won’t be an impartial judge to separate the evidentiary chaff from the chaff.”
Do you mean to separate the wheat from the chaff? Or are you making a subtle point? :)
60% of the voters still feel Rossi won (compared to 39% feel Gregoir won
When was this survey completed?
“still” as of when, Chuck? and which voters? (the ones in your head?) Either provide a cite to that poll or—if, as I suspect, you have no cite to back up your wild claims—stop prevaricating.
GBS @ 3 (Shiavo Autopsy thread @ 269.)
Hat’s off to you sailor! You have really captured the essence that is Pudster
A more miserable lying sack of shit never walked the earth.
Good Job!
Thanks, Donnageddon.
Normally, I don’t let it get the best of me, but you know what? I’m not your typical granola eating, tree-hugging democrat either. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that) And, I’m not afraid to call any Republi-nazi out on the mat when it’s required.
In Pudster’s case, it was long overdue.
nazi slur of the day…glad ya’ll keep your streak alive
@12
What can I say, I’m a creatre of habit.
Righton @ 12
Your correct at this point comparing the neo-cons to the nazi’s is a form of nazi defamation.
@2
“Unfortunately, that lying piece of crap Steffy can say anything he wants.”
What’s unfortunate about that? Thank God we live in a country where you don’t go to jail for say anything you want. Better enjoy it while it lasts, though, which may not be much longer.
@3
Roger Rabbit has posted his solemn response to Pudster’s claims on the referenced thread.
@5
Ha! I understand the math — even though I’m just a silly bunny — but as Judge Bridges pointed out there’s no EVIDENCE that any of those people even voted for governor. Never mind, that’s us lawyers, we’re just funny in that way. Humor us.
@6
“60% of the voters still feel Rossi won”
That and $3.50 + 8.8% sales tax will get you a mocha latte at Starbucks. Just the thing for a rainy day. For you, Cheesy Chuckie, it seems to rain every day.
@10
Thank you for your service and welcome home. I’m in AWE of you SEAL guys, even though you’re all fucking crazy. I mean, who the hell in their right mind wants to sit in freezing surf to prove his manhood when you could be doing it in a motel room with a cheap whore?
Think I’ll pop in on Stefan to see what bullshit he’s spewing today.
Retch! Gag! Puke! It’s all a plot by that commie newspaper, the P-I, to suppress the truth about those 95 ballots. He does admit there’s 1 Democratic donor in that batch, though — a pretty big concession for him. But that still leaves you 39 speculative votes short, Stefan. (133 – 94 = 39)
Given that Stefan doesn’t even know the PDA doesn’t require public agencies to release information they don’t have, somebody better check his math work too.
RR @ 15
They say the pen is mighter than the sword (slow down R-nazi’s I said “pen is” not penis). You are a real gem. I’m jealous.
You know what you’re also right about, freezing surf. Of all the stuff that makes you want to quit being a SEAL, is always being wet and freezing FUCKING cold, always. I never got used to it. And what most people don’t understand is that it doesn’t stop once you complete basic training, SEAL’s always train and so you’re basicaly in a constant state of being wet and cold.
“Sandies” aren’t much fun either.
GBS@3: Thank you. Just finished reading 269, Schiavo Autopsy thread. I have a real hard time with fradulent, armchair warriors. It is insulting to those who have served. The closest some of these armchair warriors have gotten to serving is going to the Army-Navy Surplus store for a set of cammies to strut around in at a local veterans’ event. I have more to say on this, but I’ll wait for open thread. thanks again. Marilyn
Look forward to “chatting” with you, Marilyn.
Obviously not on Nov. 2, 2004, on which date the only survey of voters that counts was conducted.
David @7,
I subtle point, of course.
I gotta run for now.
Just wanted to say Peace, Out to all the Liberals here. When I’m in the company of such intelligent people, it restores my faith in the process. We will take control of our country again because of people like you all who care enough to engage the neocons.
Thanks to all of you guys, and gals, you kick-ass!!
To all of you America hatin’, bin laden lovin, right-wing, whack-o nut jobs, and you know who you are, bitch slap ya later.
Pudster, a big FUCK YOU, to you, Mac.
Occam’s razor just got turned on its head.
Occam’s razor says that you take the simplest explanation for a phenomenon. There are two reasonable explanations for this. One is the “it was an accident”. The other is “it was a conspiracy do defranchise Rossi votors”.
The SoundPolitics crowd seems to believe that the simplest explanation is the latter.
Bizarre.
@19
But you were the best of the BEST, so it was worth it. Right?
Again — thank you for your service, and welcome home. :D
20
If a guy says he served, I give him the benefit of the doubt until it I’m convinced he lied, and in my book anyone who signed the papers has “served.” At that moment you don’t know what lies ahead of you — it might be four years or four days, it make be a cushy tour or a metal box. We’re all equals when we take the step forward across that yellow line.
I have to say one thing for the SEALS though — when the government has that much invested in your training they won’t throw away your life quite as blithely as they do with the rest of us. Cannon fodder is cheap.
BREAKING NEWS – Tyco ex-CEO Dennis Kozlowski — he of the $2 million Roman birthday bash — is found GUILTY by the jury of fraud, conspiracy, and grand larceny.
Occam’s razor just got turned on its head.
Occam’s razor says that you take the simplest explanation for a phenomenon. There are two reasonable explanations for this. One is the “it was an accident”. The other is “it was a conspiracy do defranchise Rossi votors”.
The SoundPolitics crowd seems to believe that the simplest explanation is the latter.
Bizarre.
To the reality-based community, it does appear strange at first, but it’s not all that bizarre when you consider the motives of those foisting the tin-foil hat theories. The simplest explanation doesn’t get as much attention or feed the id of the rabble. Turning a non-story into a travesty accomplishes both goals.
OOH A BAR GRAPH NOW I BELIVE!!! HALLELUJAH!!!
OOH! SOMEONE THAT CAN USE THE CAPLOCK KEY!!! OBVIOUSLY INTELLEGENT!
JDB @ 32
Hangs on every word Goldy says, must be intelligent… or not!!!
Jesus, All Tools… are you out for recess or something? I think I hear your Mother calling. Now Scoot on home!
Atj @30
The simplest explanation doesn’t get as much attention or feed the id of the rabble. Turning a non-story into a travesty accomplishes both goals.
Well said! You must be talking about the Downing Street Memo…
marks @ 35
“Well said! You must be talking about the Downing Street Memo”
You are so right . . . we shouldn’t even need a stinking memo to recognize that Bush invaded a country contrary to our UN obligations and international law.
Oh well . . . sometimes it takes a memo to raze an idiot. :-)
David, you are an idiot.
I never implied that “election workers were cross-checking the names on the envelopes with PDC records of GOP contributors” it’s downright silly for you to suggest as much. Then again, I wouldn’t expect anything else from an idiot.
Stefan’s whining reminds me of something that happened when I was a little bunny.
I was minding my own business when Papa Rabbit came along and whacked me a good one on my cute little cottontail.
“What was that for?” demanded I, indignantly.
Papa Rabbit explained.
“But I’m innocent,” I protested. “Peter did it!”
Papa Rabbit reflected a moment, then replied, “Then that’s for whatever you did that I didn’t catch you for!”
Same principle applies to you, Steff.
Roger Rabbit @ 38
Tipical lib head full of Tofu, no room for a solitary original thought.
Gee I thought it was both original and creative. It’s not my fault you’re so uneducated you’re unable to appreciate fine literary art when it smacks you between the eyes.
Stefen, you probably can avoid a lawsuit, but the sentences
“Among the other interesting names on the list — Maude Ferry of Mercer Island. Mrs. Ferry is the wife of Richard Ferry, co-founder and retired CEO of Korn/Ferry, Intl. The Ferrys are major-league philanthropists and major-league Republican donors (look them up here)”
“On the other hand, when a Democrat administration disenfranchises a bunch of mostly white Republicans from the suburbs, and then unlawfully covers up the details until after the main controversy subsides, the newspapers bury the news in the middle of the local section, write it off as a “mistake”, or ignore it altogether.”
[those were from your Jun 16 post at 8:02pm entitled ‘Names of disenfranchised voters released’]
definitly implies that those whose votes wern’t counted
were not counted because they were Republican.
To claim that you never implied that election workers were cross
checking the names is disingenious at best (and fairly insulting).
I hate liers. Now, did I imply anything at all about you or your character?
wow, what a success here, rogerrabbit/don/alan/cybil/PVS posts 30 of the 41 comments.
and DON, the potato goes in the FRONT of the speedo, not the back you dork. Unless you were hoping to turn on one of your fellow HA buddies. lol, you spaz.
Chard, you left your bloomers at the Frat house last night. Oh, and your false teeth. Unfortunately the dog started chewing on the teeth.
Poor dog died.
I will miss that dog.
bill@41
you are a fool; stefan said their names are recognizable, never said anyone did a name by name lookup
Liars all of you lefties
Rightoff, you brain dead neo-con lap dog, how the hell do you “disenfranchise” a bunch of potential R voters, if you are not looking them up.
You are not just intellectually lazy and disingenuous, you are complet moron.
The minnow is making a claim of willfull disenfranchisement, which is on the face of it ludicrous! Why would you disenfranchise 96 votes in King County?
RFLMAO you and the minnow have really gone off the rails on the neo-con train!
Bill – “liar” is spelled “liar”, not “lier”. You’re almost as much of an idiot as Goldstein.
Steffy did your parents teach you to lie or did it just come naturally to you?
Minnow! I am your biggest fan! Like the time you assured us all that Rossi would prevail in court!!! That was a classic… God, I am still laughing1
45, ok fine; lots of us smell fraud; we don’t know how you do it, but heck we never went to Wellstone training (young pioneers?) camp either.
How am i supposed to know how cheaters work?
donna;
hang him on opinion mistakes, but what facts did he err on?
and what facts have you lefties or paid workers contributed to finding the truth?
hows that blue ribbon panel doing?
Rightoff @ 49 Wisdom comes from learning to smell when fraud has obviously NOT been committed.
Righton @ 50
“Blue ribbon panel” seems more like pin the tail on the donkey.
Rightoff @ 50 because I just don’t fucking like him.
My blue ribbon panel is doing great! Thanks for asking!
Wait, how did you know about my blue ribbon panel?
Are you psychic? Did you help Reagan schudule events!?
Oh wow! Can I get an autographed piture?
righton @ 50
“hows that blue ribbon panel doing?”
Funny you should ask! I just had them over for dinner tonight! They say they are doing quite well—everything is going to get fixed.
They asked if they could borrow my eraser.
Minnow @ 46
as much of an idiot as Goldstein.
Hmmm.. Who called just about everything right?
And who was totally wrong?
Oh and when you start correcting spelling – you ought to know you don’t have anything left.
great dinner and eraser quip. Sometimes you guys are funny
Wow! We mere mortals get, yet, another visit from Sharkansky!
It is too bad that we cannot go post on uSP without being banned or being outed by our IP address.
Remember, an anagram for “Sharkansky! Sharkansky!” is
“Shark yanks shaky ranks!!”
Kind of says it all, huh?
how are you outed? I’ve only heard him accuse or out Headless, and that was not very specific
Chardonnay, Righton, All tools, chuck and Stefan:
You people subtract from the sum total of human knowledge every time you open your mouths. Marilyn
ok, lay some of your superior potty talk or intellect on us? I might be able to follow you.
Being right wing is just as “right” as being left wing. You seem to think you have a lock on intelligence
@42
“wow, what a success here, rogerrabbit/don/alan/cybil/PVS posts 30 of the 41 comments”
Actual number: 11
Comment: No wonder she thinks Rossi won.
Observation concerning post #49
“45, ok fine; lots of us smell fraud; we don’t know how you do it, but heck we never went to Wellstone training (young pioneers?) camp either. How am i supposed to know how cheaters work?”
Another possibility is that Rossi lost.
@60
“Being right wing is just as “right” as being left wing.”
Uh – no. You either believe the Earth is round or you don’t; both points of view can’t be correct.
Hard to believe he lost since when human hands weren’t in the till, he won twice. He lost only after KC kicked into gear
63; or believe in the same “depends on the meaning of the word is”
we aren’t the ones deconstructing all historic truths..
SS Minnow
I like that – great ring to it.
Wrong Again – Rossi didn’t “win twice,” he was only ahead twice, before the final score was in.
Steffy Baby – do you know what an “idiot” is? I’ll tell you. An “idiot” is someone who doesn’t know the PDA doesn’t require King County to give you a list that doesn’t exist.
RightOff @ 63 “we aren’t the ones deconstructing all historic truths..”
Oh Keeper Of Historic Truths: example please?
Roger; you’re just a gasbag with a keyboard…shark did great work, how’d you help discover stuff?
righton @ 58
“how are you outed?”
I am not outed, since I don’t post there.
“I’ve only heard him accuse or out Headless, and that was not very specific “
I heard that OJ didn’t really quite kill his wife (sort-of). Would you let your sister marry him?
Thank god it was game,set,match in Florida. No do-overs there so the donks can use their bag-o ballots.
RUFUS, you have an interesting posting style. Interesting mainly in that they rarely have any coherence.
How is that working out for you?
Sorry I should have referenced
67-
Wrong Again – Rossi didn’t “win twice,” he was only ahead twice, before the final score was in.
71-
Thank god it was game,set,match in Florida. No do-overs there so the donks can use their bag-o ballots.
PS
“game,set match” refers to only one count.
RUFUS, thanks. That made it clear as mud.
Awe dont mention it Donnageddon buddy.. We are all a little confused with the governors race.
Reply to 69
Step 1: Go to Stef’s web site.
Step 2: Click on a link Stef conveniently provided and read Egan’s letter.
Step 3: Read in letter explanation of why list wasn’t provided (remember, Stefan linked to Egan’s letter to his very own lawyer on his very own web site); i.e., no list was made before the absentee ballots were sealed in containers.
Step 4: Read news story on King 5 web site explaining how King 5 got the list (i.e., via a public records request by King 5).
Step 5: Look up court case on Municipal Research Council web site (I knew there was one; just couldn’t remember the cite).
Step 6: Post on HA.
I can’t take it any more. Having seen the pain we have caused the minnow and his followers, I have to come clean.
Yes, we stole the election. With the help of the Rand Corporation and reverse vampires we were able to carefully screen all ballots in the state, know exactly how they were marked, and then through an incredibly complicated formula decided whether in King County to destroy a Republican ballot, make sure it was lost, or stuff a pro-Gregoire ballot into the mix.
The most brilliant part of the plan, and it was Goldy that came up with this, was having a list of the names of felons that we could quickly fake votes in favor of Gregoire with. I mean, they’re felons. If they say they never voted, who will believe them? The clincher, though, and credit here goes to GBS, is to make sure we put in four votes for Rossi and one for Bennet so if anyone was to question it, we could show them those five. You have to admire such cunning.
I think it was dj who thought we should then hide a couple hundred good Gregoire ballots so if things got close on a recount, we could leak that they were not counted and get someone outside our cabal to demand they were counted. And we pulled all of this off while there were thousand of GOP lawyers and poll watchers watching every step of the way.
And of course it was my idea to mess up the books just enough that people like ss minnow would focus at the obvious mistakes and not worry about actually proving anything. As great as our other machinations? no, but it did its part. Think of the hours ss minnow spent with his spreadsheets when if he had just picked up the phone and called around, the whole thing falls apart. I am sorry, Stefan. I am truly sorry.
Sadly, I don’t know all the details. How we were able to slip money to Dale Foreman so that he would sink his argument by making claims about fraud when he knew there was no evidence was beyond our little cell. Making sure that Judge John “Stalin” Bridges was elected and in place in Chelan took years of planning. Of course the piece d’ resistance was making sure that the GOP forum shopped to Chelan County. If they had filed in King County and received a judge that wasn’t in our pocket, it all would have fallen apart.
Then again, Kirby Wilbur has always been a part of the cabal, and it was he himself who suggested making sure the King County GOP make a bigger mistake, percentage wise, in their ballot count. I thought it would be impossible to do with less than 500 votes, but he found a way, he found a way. Genius, absolute genius.
But, of course, it is costing us a ton to keep Rob McKenna and Norm Maleng in our pocket. Do you know what it costs to bribe a federal prosecutor? We are not talking chump change here. We are talking Hallaburton dollars people.
And this was just the first time we have tried. Mistakes were made. We did all of this cheating, but no one thought about making sure that Deborah Senn would win. We were fools! Fools I say! We had everything, but all we can show for it is winning the Governor’s election by 133 votes. It should have been so much more! We should have fixed this election like Bush fixed intelligence. But who am I kidding; George W. Bush is just at a different level from our little operation.
But enough! Enough I say. The lies, the cheating, the fraud must stop. I might be the first, but I call on all of the left to join me and come clean! Say Hallelujah and let go of your sin.
By the way, for those of you interested in joining our little cabal and helping us fix the next election, along with destroying the family, aborting all fetuses, imposing communism upon everyone (but, of course, only after raising taxes through the roof), and letting all criminals go free, or just wonder how we are able to do all of this, we meet on Thursdays at 8:30p at the Denny’s on Mercer. Give the secret pass word, “Can you hook me up like Rush Limbaugh,” and order the veal. We will be more than happy to have you.
Thank you for letting me clear my soul of my sins. Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a soul like me…,
P.S., it took me 10 minutes; I wonder how much Stefan paid his lawyer for fucked up advice. Or maybe Steffy’s lawyer told him the same thing I did, and Steffy chose to mislead his readers.
Bravo JDB. Bravo!
JDB, if you insist on coming clean up what we did, don’t hold back and leave them wondering what our method was for determining how ballots were marked. The Great Carnac held them up to his forehead and read them by ESP. I personally saw him do this. Carnac is 100% accurate, as everyone knows who ever watched him on the Tonight show.
RR @ 76. Yep the SS Minnow is a LIAR!!! And he is supposed to be a big boy for the Puget Sound Neo-Cons.
Sheese.
As for how this sin forgiveness business works, a Republican businessman explained it to me several years ago. It works like this. Once you’ve been forgiven of your sins, you’re right with the Lord and will go to Heaven no matter what shit you did. And if you’re born again, you stay right with the Lord permanently, no matter what shit you pull next week, so it’s okay to go right ahead and do it because you won’t go to Hell for it. Your victims will, though, because they’re heathen nonbelievers.
Donna @ 81
Well I sure caught him with his pants down on this one. He looks pretty fucking silly. This is the 1st thing people learn about public records — if they don’t have it, they don’t have to give it to you. Pretty fucking simple. Too complicated for Stefan though. This whole episode proves he’s an idiot or a liar, or both.
Roger @80
For shame, you are right! But don’t you see, to admit that is to admit that we are Satanist and have been using the undead body of Johnny Carson for or own nefarious ends. I know they know we are all part of the dark covenant, but to actually admit to it? And once they know we have the power to re-animate Johnny Carson, what else will they find out? Will they learn that Sam Reed is really an android?
Oops. I have said too much.
JDB @ 77,
Yes, thanks . . . I am feeling the weight of the world (or, about 184,824 km² of it) lifted from my shoulders. Whew!
My part in this scheme was relatively small. I think we agreed in debriefing that I was the poll worker who took ballots home. My only regret is that I could not figure out that damn DIMS system to make the numbers to match! Fortunately, KC Elections couldn’t really figure it out either.
The real heroes, however, were Roger Rabbit, Donnageddon, and DamnageD, who scoured the state’s newspapers for hundreds of obituaries (funny that the GOP only discovered 19 of them), contacted thousands of people selling homes in order to identify about 600 moveing out of state, visited dozens of trauma centers to get the names of recently admitted patients, and identified hundreds of Microsoft workaholics who were sure to not bother voting (only six of them did vote). You folks were a stunning tribute to all evil liberals everywhere!
I feel much better now. Okay, gotta go. It is my shift to push drugs, recruit children into prostitution, and take a piss in Sharkansky’s front yard.
Stefan @37,
Have you been drinking?
You don’t really strike me as the kind of guy who drinks to excess, but you know… I’m just saying….
Goldy:
You think this is bad, you should see what he posts on his own site.
Random distribution means if you have a distrubution as you stated then would you not find more missing ballots in Seattle precincts than on the EAST SIDE. WHy was the distribution of these ballots so high in precincts that went for Rossi. Most KC Precincts went for Democratic canidates yet most of these ballots where in Republican precincts. What are the odds of three of them from the same family? Give me a break if all three of one family is on the unopened list something is fishy. But is a very small probability that everyone in one household would not get thier vote counted. I have better odds winning the lottery than having three people in one household be part of the missing ballots. One person out of three in a household is chance. Maybe a mistake but when 3 of the same family that is really breaking you model. Make the numbers look anyway you want. I would love to see how they voted. Then we can see how your model holds up. So far I have heard of 4 Republican votes and one Democratic vote for Governor out of those ballots. YOu can check your model by looking at those ballots.
How come you dolts care more Shark was procedurally wrong than for KC to be ethically correct and fess up.
Seems rather nitpicky to lose sight of “we have the best election system in the world” NOT
To “Roger Rabbit”, who, improbably, is an even bigger idiot than Goldstein —
My PDA request of April 7 did not ask for a non-existent “list”. It asked for “The names and voter ids of all of the approximately 93 voters whose absentee ballots were recently discovered and identified in the April 4 memo from Garth Fell to Dean Logan”. There were documents responsive to that request, namely the absentee ballot envelopes, which they unlawfully denied to disclose.
Did I mention that both “Roger Rabbit” and Goldstein are idiots?
Stefan, go back and read the Bobbi Egan letter to your lawyer that you linked on your web site. (Do you link to stuff you don’t read?)
She told YOUR LAWYER that the voters’ names were not copied from the unopened absentee ballot envelopes before they were placed in “sealed containers.” She also told YOUR LAWYER that it was open to you to ask the court for access to the information you requested, and that was your recourse. Did you file such a motion with the court? Yes or no.
You’re full of shit, Stefan. Either that, or you’re totally confused about (a) the factual situation (b) the law, applicable to your request. Or willfully ignoring both the facts and the law.
Egan’s letter makes clear that no such list existed back in April when you requested it. It’s also clear that to provide you with the list, King County Elections would have had to break the seals on the containers, which they were unwilling to do without a court order as the ballots were evidence in a pending lawsuit, and would have had to create a list to satisfy your request, which public agencies are not required to do as this state’s caselaw makes clear.
SS “Minnow” makes it up as he goes along. He sees himself as one of “history’s actors”.
Here is the link (http://www.soundpolitics.com/archives/004610.html) and the complete text of the Egan letter, courtesy of Stefan Sharkansky and Sound Politics.
April 13, 2005
Michael Brannan
Attorney at Law
2033 Sixth Avenue, Suite 800
Seattle, Washington 98101
Re: Your April 7, 2005 Letter
Dear Mr. Brannan:
Thank you for your April 7, 2005 letter. The King County Records, Elections, and Licensing Services Division (“Elections Division”) is attempting to respond to your client’s public disclosure request as expeditiously as reasonably possible. However, as indicated in its March 31, 2005 letter to your client, the Elections Division will not be able to complete its response to your client’s request until, at the earliest, April 15, 2005.
The Elections Division has received 57 public disclosure requests with regard to the 2004 General Election. Some of these requests were received prior to the receipt of your client’s request on February 22, 2005. Additionally, you are undoubtedly familiar with the election contest lawsuit that is proceeding in Chelan County. The Elections Division has received numerous requests for documents from the parties to the lawsuit. On the advice of the King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office, the Elections Division has given priority to subpoenas and requests from the parties that are related to the lawsuit. To date, tens of thousands of documents have been produced to the parties. The Elections Division is also preparing for Special Elections to be held on April 26 and May 17 with absentee verification slated to begin April 12, 2005.
The Washington Public Disclosure Act requires agencies to “promptly” make public records available for inspection or copying upon request. However, the act also directs agencies to respond to requests in such a way as to “prevent excessive interference with other essential functions of the agency.” RCW 42.17.290. The Elections Division is acting reasonably expeditiously in responding to your client’s request in light of the Elections Division’s other essential functions discussed above. The Elections Division will continue to devote time and resources to your client’s request in order to fully respond to the request as soon as reasonably possible. You client will be notified as soon as requested documents are available for inspection.
On Tuesday, April 12, Mr. Sharkansky was provided the following documents to review;
All documents presented to the canvassing board as well as access to a hard copy of the precinct breakdown of the 2004 General Election (binders). (As Mr. Sharkansky was told, this information was available for his review on March 31, 2005.)
Information related ot the 348 Provisional Ballots that were identified to have been incorrectly inserted into Accuvote machines by voters. (This information was also available for Mr. Sharkansky’s review as early as March 31, 2005.)
All absentee ballot batch slips currently available (range from 1-3218 w/approximately 100 in-house batches mixed in.)
Absentee ballot procedures
Batch slips categorized as “Nicole batch slips”
Enhancement and duplication batch slips
Add-on batch slips
Ballot opening instructions for the November General Election]
DIMS-NET Mail Ballot Operations Satellite Guide
Copies of additional batch slips, s well as the following information, are available today, April 13, 2005, for review as well as a disk of all PSI data files of information related to the PSI batches. Please note that the data for October 29, 2004 was either corrupt or blank, therefore we will provide the data from that disk when and if it becomes available. Any other dates not listed on the disk means ballots were not sorted on that day, which includes Sundays. Two copies of an accountability summary are provided on this disk – the original as well as an updated version.
In your letter you indicate that your client is seeking access to the names and voter identification numbers of “the approximately 93 voters whose absentee ballots were recently discovered and identified in the April 4 memo”. This information is not available for public inspection and copying at this time. The 94 absentee ballot envelope were not opened by elections staff and were placed in sealed containers. On the advice of the Prosecuting Attorney’s Office, the sealed containers will not be opened until further direction from a court. It is expected that an order regarding these ballots will be issued in the course of the election contest litigation in Chelan County. No list was made of the corresponding voter names or identification numbers for the 94 absentee ballot envelopes before the envelopes were sealed. As a result, the Elections Division is unable to respond to this portion of your client’s request. Please note that batch slip information on the uncounted 94 ballots is provided along with all batch slips made available for review or that will be made available this week.
In your letter you indicate that your client is seeking copies of both the absentee ballot outer envelope and provisional ballot envelope for the voters who were identified as having returned absentee ballots in the files on REALS’ “Absentee ballot return statistics” but not credited in the voter registration database with having cast a provisional ballot.
Due to continuing requests for discovery information and the current work taking place for the April 26, 2005 Special Election, we estimate providing copies of the remaining batch slips and a replacement CD of the Canvassing Board minutes will be available by April 15, 2005.
Becuse Mr. Sharkansky did not file a public records request for item labeled “f” on your letter, we will consider that request a new request and process accordingly in the order of existing request. We estimate that information will be available May 18, 2005.
Regards,
/s/
Bobbie Egan
Communications Specialist
King County rEALS
cc: Stefan Sharkansky
Janine Joly, Sr. Prosecuting Attorney, Prosecuting Attorney’s Office
Dean Logan, Director, King County Elections
Mary Stoa, Confidential Secretary REALS
Editorial Note: Due to the fact this is a .pdf file that I can’t copy and paste on my system, I have retyped it, omitting the letterhead graphics. You can download the original from Stefan’s web site using the link I’ve provided above.
Comment: I have reproduced the letter in full above. Obviously Stefan’s public records request, and Bobbie Egan’s response, included a number of other items. The discussion of the 94 unopened absentee ballots is toward the end of the letter, the operative portion of which states,
“The 94 absentee ballot envelope were not opened by elections staff and were placed in sealed containers. … No list was made of the corresponding voter names or identification numbers for the 94 absentee ballot envelopes before the envelopes were sealed.”
That’s your answer, Stefan — the list didn’t exist. You did get a “cc” of this letter. I’ve cited the leading Washington case on this point. If your lawyer isn’t familiar with it, save yourself some fees for legal research and give it to him. That case is, again, Smith v. Okanogan County, 100 Wn. App. 7 (2000).
There will be no charge for my legal advice today, Stefan. I consider this work pro bono and public interest. You’re welcome.
I have posted Egan’s letter in full but it is temporarily stuck in Goldy’s spam filter and should come up on the board in a little while.
90, Stefan, you are simply wrong. Your own quote in #90 makes clear you requested “the names and voter ids” for the unopened absentee ballots and that information didn’t exist. As Egan’s letter makes clear, the absentee ballot envelopes had already been sealed, and were not available for copying without a court order. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can spent $25,000 litigating this in Superior Court by filing a noncompliance claim against King County. The MOST your lawyer has to work with is a claim that King County could have satisfied your request by breaking the seals and making the copies of the envelopes. But the court will view this as a judgment call and will NOT award you penalties against the county, trust me on this. Well no, you don’t have to trust me, be a fucking idiot and go ahead and spend your $25,000 for nothing.
Goldy, after my posting of Egan’s letter is released from your filter, I think you should do a new thread on this public records issue. Stefan is full of shit. I’ve got him dead to rights on this.
Stefan, are you retarded as well? I point out that in a public post you did imply something that you said you never implied and your response is “you’re an idiot and you cant spell”? Whats next, do you stick out your tongue? say ‘nyah nyah nyah’? You got caught old son, and I never called you a liar. I simply pointed out that you were saying something that is untrue. If you don’t like someone pointing out when you publicly say something untrue, the stop making claims that are so easily checked.
See this is what I’ve been going on about. Folks have been making wild ass claims left and right and the stupid thing is all of it is checkable. When you are making a claim that you never said something and you own archives have a post showing that you did, there is something seriously wrong. Thats twice I have seen you do that Stefan, are you senile or a liar? Saying ‘you are an idiot’ really doesnt answer that, and if that is the only answer you can give as to why you keep making a claim that is demonstrably false, I will assume you are just a liar. BTW, I will just let you know, I may be happy to talk to you but I will never do business with you, you simply can not be trusted.
Maybe you just have a very short contact with reality and can’t remember what you said two days ago, but you DID say it.
Righton, no, he never stated it, but that what not what I said. I said he implied such and the quote I included demonstrates that. Why don’t you like start paying attention to what folks are saying rather than bleating what you hear someone else say half an hour ago. Or making the same post 25 times half an hour apart. We heard the first ‘oh yeah’ you really dont need to say it over and over.
Well I hope Stefan keeps it up, because eventually he’ll get discredited and lose his audience. The media will be the first to go. When they notice his penchant for contradicting himself and getting basic facts wrong, he will no longer be quotable, they will relegate him to the “gadfly” bin, and invitations for radio/TV appearances will dry up.
While we’re waiting for my post of Egan’s letter to clear Goldy’s filter, I’ll quote the relevant portion of her letter:
“The 94 absentee ballot envelopes were not opened by elections staff and were placed in sealed containers. On the advice of the Prosecuting Attorney’s Office, the sealed containers will not be opened until further direction from a court. … No list was made of the corresponding voter names or identification numbers for the 94 absentee ballot envelopes before the envelopes were sealed. As a result, the Elections Division is unable to respond to this portion of your client’s request.”
This is great.
The SS Minnow is getting snared in his own repeated lies.Far be it for me to give advice to such a loathsome clown as Minnow, but man, isn’t it about time you own up to having “made a mistake”, and cut your loses?Yeah Stefan Keep telling them evil Libs!
Outboard @ 88
”Random distribution means if you have a distrubution as you stated then would you not find more missing ballots in Seattle precincts than on the EAST SIDE.”
Good question. The ballots are handled by legislative district, so it makes sense to look at the number of errors by legislative district.
In the table below, the first column is legislative district, second is the number of unopened ballots, the third is the error rate (number of unopened ballots for every 100,000 votess), the fourth is the percent of Gregoire votes and finally the number of Rossi votes.
Leg # error per % %
Dist miss 100,000 Greg. Rossi
05 1 1.4 0.41 0.56
11 2 4.5 0.58 0.37
30 1 2.0 0.47 0.49
33 2 4.3 0.51 0.44
36 2 2.5 0.70 0.25
41 51 72 0.47 0.49
45 4 6.0 0.44 0.52
46 1 1.4 0.69 0.26
47 27 48 0.44 0.52
The first column is legislative district, second is the number of unopened ballots, the third is the error rate (number of unopened ballots for every 100,000 ballots), the fourth is the percent of Gregoire votes and finally the number of Rossi votes.
The most obvious thing to see here is that the majority of districts have a tiny error rate. The two big outliers are district 41 and district 47. When we look at all KC districts, there is a background error rate of 1.5 ballots per 100,000 votes in a district. The districts that have errors are pretty much split between Gregoire and Rossi, if we assume that the very high rate of errors in 41 and 47 result from a process other than error.
So, how do we explain the error rates in Precinct 41 or 47? Let’s examine two different hypotheses.
Hypothesis 1: Two sloppy employees. Under this hypothesis, there was a sloppy employee opening envelopes in district 47 with an error rate some 32 times higher than normal, and a sloppy employee for district 41 with an error rate of about 48 times higher than normal.
Hypothesis 2: Election workers targeted district 47 and 41 for errors as a way to cut into Rossi’s lead. Since they did not open the envelopes, we will assume they were doing this without knowing who the votes went to.
Here are some problems with hypothesis 2. Why would a fraudster pick precincts that are so evenly split? The most error occurred in a district (41) that went for Rossi by 49% versus 47% for Gregoire. At that rate, you would have to leave 1000 envelopes unopened in order to gain a mere 20 votes for Rossi. Given the 51 unopened ballots, the expected gain for Gregoire is one bloody vote. By the way, given 47% Gregoire ballots in a large pool and randomly removing 51 votes, one has a 24% chance of hurting Gregoire.
District 47 is 44% to 52% in favor of Rossi, at least, but this district is not the most pro-Rossi in KC. There are 3 districts (45, 31, and 5) that swung even farther for Rossi. What is the expected gain from the 27 unopened ballots in district 47? That would be a whooping 2 vote gain for Gregoire. If we randomly remove 27 ballots from a large pool with 44% for Gregoire, one has a 15% chance of hurting Gregoire.
”What are the odds of three of them from the same family? … But is a very small probability that everyone in one household would not get thier vote counted.”
Under hypothesis 1, it is because a tired or sloppy poll worker dumped a stack of unopened ballots into the “empty envelope” box. Under hypothesis 2, a poll worker must have memorized a list of Republican voters and then must search for needles in a haystack.
”I have better odds winning the lottery than having three people in one household be part of the missing ballots.”
That is only true if the errors are independent of each other. I noticed a fair amount of clustering by precinct. Given the clustering pattern, I suspect the errors occurred with small batches of unopened ballots that were bundled together.
How come Judge Bridges did not open and count these ballots since it was clear that they were valid votes, and it is clear to those that open them who they were for. He can trust and count felons asked who they voted for but not count valid voter votes. I guess these will just be chocked up with the 1500+ illegal votes that no one on this site gives a rats ass about.
GS @ 101
“How come Judge Bridges did not open and count these ballots since it was clear that they were valid votes”
Good question. There may be legal reasons for this, I don’t know. I certainly would not have objected to them being opened and counted (for KC and the 64 unopened in Pierce and 8 in Spokane counties).
. . . .and it is clear to those that open them who they were for.”
Nope. . . they were not opened. The ballots are, to this day, sealed in the security envelope.
“I guess these will just be chocked up with the 1500+ illegal votes that no one on this site gives a rats ass about.”
I care about them! What would you like to dicsuss about ’em? We know that Gregoire would have won if they had been “proportionally reduced.” The only other option would be to survey those individuals who could be identified and find out how they voted. The GOP decided against that strategy. . . . Go figure.
“Roger Rabbit” (idiot) — the point is (idiot) that King County has never offered a legitimate justification for keeping these envelopes under seal. Why would these particular items be kept “under seal” as “potential evidence” in the trial, while no other election records that we know about were similarly under seal? What rule did they rely on for the legal authority to seal these documents and exempt them from public disclosure? If you can produce a legitimate answer to those questions from King County (and not just keep making shit up like an idiot) then I will stopy calling you an idiot.
In the meantime, did I mention that you and Goldstein are idiots?
Another visit from the wonderful ss minnnow. Apparently he has run out of slanders to post on his board.
Steffy, Baby, listen:
First of all, thank you for posting at this humble outskirt of the internet. Your pleasant demeanor and sound reasoning are always enlightening. And, yes, you did mention that Goldy and RR are idiots. Thank you for pointing that out. It makes your arguement so much clearer.
If you have a beef, it is with the King County Prosecuting Attorney’s office, and its elected head, Norm Maleng.
Of course, you will be right when you say that he is all a part of the great Democratic conspiracy to steal the election, since we all know that he…, what? He’s a Republican,….., never mind.
Now be a good boy, admit your mistake and appologise for your misstatements.
And isn’t it ironic that when you got caught out on a mistake, you acted just like King County Elections?
That is the thing about Steffy, he gets caught at one lie, so he just moves onto another lie.
That may fly with the pinheads of (u)SP, but here your bullshit will be called everytime.
Take it Bitch!
My God how priveleged we are with visits from the all powerful SS Minnow!!!
Whenever I need to roll on the floor laughing I just re-read his dispatches from the election contest!
I laugh the hardest when he insults Goldy about “making stuff up”.
The only thing funnier is to read Mr. Cynical’s sycophantic comments at (u)SP about how Goldy was going to “fall”.
The Republican party is truly blessed!
Uh, he’s still right; Dems stole the election. Didn’t we win while an honest machine was doing the counting?
3 million dollars and a panel of winger lawyers couldn’t convince a judge there was any case.
If you or the minnow are smarter than that, go ahead, prove it to me…
Reply to 104
No Stefan, the point is — or should I say — the points are:
1. You lied when you said on your blog that KING 5 got the list in response to YOUR public records request;
2. Your request for the list back in April was properly denied under state law because the list did not exist at that time;
to which I would add,
3. Now that you’ve been called on the your bullshit, you’re trying to change the subject.
(What else is new?)
I feel honored that Stefan called me an “idiot.” I printed it, I’m having a frame shop suitably frame it, and I intend to display it in my place of business. Or maybe I should say, in the place where I do my business. It’s in the Northwest Corner of Green Lake Park about 25 feet off the jogging path where you see the heap of bunny pellets.