Kerry Wins!

[SPECIAL UPDATE: Rolling Stone has posted: “Was the 2004 Election Stolen?“]

BradBlog reports that Rolling Stone magazine is about to publish an expose that alleges massive voter fraud and disenfranchisment in Ohio, that likely changed the outcome of the 2004 presidential election. The result of four months of investigations and interviews conducted by author Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Rolling Stone reporters, the article alleges that 350,000 voters were disenfranchised in Ohio, while as many as 80,000 rural votes may have been fraudulently shifted from Kerry to Bush.

The article also explores the unexplained disparities between exit polls and final results in 10 of 11 battleground states — disparities as high as 9.5 percent — and all shifting in Bush’s favor.

According to Steven F. Freeman, a visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania who specializes in research methodology, the odds against all three of those shifts occurring in concert are one in 660,000. “As much as we can say in sound science that something is impossible,” he says, “it is impossible that the discrepancies between predicted and actual vote count in the three critical battleground states of the 2004 election could have been due to chance or random error.”

I’ll post a link to the Rolling Stone article as soon as it becomes available.

UPDATE:
BradBlog now has extended excerpts, and they’re stunning.

Indeed, the extent of the GOP’s effort to rig the vote shocked even the most experienced observers of American elections. “Ohio was as dirty an election as America has ever seen,” Lou Harris, the father of modern political polling, told me. “You look at the turnout and votes in individual precincts, compared to the historic patterns in those counties, and you can tell where the discrepancies are. They stand out like a sore thumb.”

UPDATE, UPDATE:
The entire article is now available on Rolling Stone: “Was the 2004 Election Stolen?” Read it and weep.

Comments

  1. 1

    Harry Tuttle aka Voter Advocate spews:

    While the Minnow scrounges in boxes for ballot envelopes, massive Republican voter fraud is ignored.

  2. 3

    Channelling RUFUSBUD spews:

    Leave it to a DONK to believe the facts! All us right thinkers know that only DONKS steal elections! Republicans just ensure that they come out the way they should!

    Channelling RUFUSBUD – George W. Bush is the selected President!

  3. 4

    Gorditos de los Alberto spews:

    The statistical evidence of fraud has been out there for some time. There is one chance in 660,000 that deliberate fraud was committed by the Republicans. This puts in jeopardy any decisions made by our Supreme Kangaroo Kourt.

    Lloyd, in, Dumb and Dumber: “One chance in a million??!! So, what your telling me is that there’s still a chance!!”

  4. 9

    ChetBob spews:

    The scary part is that the Democratic Party establishment does not appear to be doing anything special to stop the GOP from committing these same crimes all over again, so I expect it will happen again.

  5. 10

    LeftTurn spews:

    Of course they stole it. They stole it in 2000 too. We know that’s the only way they can win. Do the math. There are lots more Dems than rethugs. How else can they win? We have to not only win, but win so big that we beat their padded 10% theft rate. That is until the country wakes up and just revolts. That’s why I believe a civil war is coming. People know the rethugs cheat and they will eventually decide to fight back.

  6. 12

    Richard Pope spews:

    Goldy — excellent story. It would make a STRONG campaign theme for Darcy Burner to hammer upon in her run for Congress. I hope you encourage her to grab this bull by the horns and not let go until November :)

  7. 14

    Richard Pope\'s horns spews:

    Please don’t allow anyone to grab me. Just because I am attached to a bunch of Bull doesn’t mean I should be grabbed!

    It just ain’t fair…

  8. 15

    Dr. E spews:

    This is not new or even breaking news. The subject was the topic of Mark Crispin Miller’s latest book Fooled Again, in which he exhaustively documents the available evidence of voter fraud and manipulation in the 2004 election.

    Of course, substantiated documentation of factual evidence, complete with ample citations of the sources from which it comes, will probably do nothing to persuade the closed-minded trolls (like 6 and 8, above).

  9. 16

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    What the Konservative Krime Klowns forget is the audience that Rolling Stone reaches. If today Republicans have difficulty admitting to being Republican, just think how few of the next generation of voters will want to admit to being Republican. . .let alone voting for one.

  10. 17

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Hell, even Rancid ButtPutty’s virgin twenty something sons will probably rather vote Democrat than polish their knobs with Rethuglican playmates. . .

  11. 18

    Cons are crooks spews:

    “Such results, according to the [National Election Data] archive, provide ”virtually irrefutable evidence of vote miscount.” The discrepancies, the experts add, ”are consistent with the hypothesis that Kerry would have won Ohio’s electoral votes if Ohio’s official vote counts had accurately reflected voter intent.”(41) According to Ron Baiman, vice president of the archive and a public policy analyst at Loyola University in Chicago, ”No rigorous statistical explanation” can explain the ”completely nonrandom” disparities that almost uniformly benefited Bush. The final results, he adds, are ”completely consistent with election fraud — specifically vote shifting.””

    From the Rolling Stone article

    What’s Mark “Mr. Chi Square” the Redneck got to say about that?

  12. 19

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    “likely changed the outcome”
    “the article alleges”
    ” may have been fraudulently”

    Goldy is the consummate wordsmith.
    You KLOWNS have fun with this one….just like the one you all believe that no airplane ever hit the Pentagon!!
    That one was humorous too!

    Have Joel Connelly investigate this one for you.
    OOOOPS, Joel, his gardener and a couple that never even lived in Washington are registered at his little Island County Cabin!!!!
    Maybe someone else can do it.

  13. 20

    Jack Burton spews:

    Reading your sources I see two things:

    1. Robert Kennedy Jr. Now there is a person with no agenda.

    2. Several allegations against the Repubs that sound like standard operation procedures for the Dems in the big cities like Chicago and Philadelphia.

  14. 21

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    The Konservative Krime Klown himself speaks. Tell me, Mr. Cyanide, you Krime Klowns had your day in court in Chelan. . .and you even chose the venue. Would you care to try the same deal in Ohio ?
    Or perhaps just twisting, twisting slowly in the wind of public opinion will suit you Konservative Krime Klowns better.
    Just remember, your boys are below freezing.

  15. 22

    Gentry Lange spews:

    Well gosh, who would ever not want to trust voting officials, touch screens, privately owned voting machines, or systems that allow for vote stuffing? Hmmm…. Sounds like we need some of that here in King County too! Luckily our prayers have been answered, Vote by Mail and Diebold’s most notorius TSX Touch Screens are here.

    The problem with HA and Soundpolitics is that it’s so partisan. In King County and Washington the R’s accuse the D’s of fraud, in Ohio the D’s accuse the R’s. Why not just fix the freakin’ system, and prevent the abuses.

    Vote fraud is something accountants and auditors should be involved with preventing. And I can guaruntee that no accountant or auditor would be comfortable with a VBM and no receipt ATM system.

    The fact is that the Libertarians and Greens have done far more to challenge Ohio’s problems than the D’s… with the one exception of John Conyers.

    Oh, and where were Kerry’s 10,000 lawyers?

    http://www.gentrylange.com/absentee_statement.html

  16. 23

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Take a look at your own state first you KLOWNS!
    http://www.effwa.org/enforcement/
    “On May 12, 2006, the Secretary of State Sam Reed reported that his office had removed 55,000 duplicate and deceased registrants from the Voter Registration Database. Of these registrants, Secretary Reed said there were only 30 cases of double-voting. Previously he confidently asserted that voters with duplicate registrations “are not casting two ballots.”

    How does he know? Assistant SOS Steve Excell recently revealed that “The state VRDB does not have voter history going back further than last Fall” and the SOS “has never claimed we were going back in time to re-analyze the 2004 election.”

    The lack of desire to investigate systemic voter fraud and election crimes in the 2004 general election is not limited to the SOS. Consider the letter the Jefferson County Prosecutor sent to an alleged double voter. It said that double voting is “taken very seriously by the Auditor and this office (the Prosecutor) because voting is at the core of our democracy. If someone successfully votes twice that destroys the equality of ‘one person, one vote.’ Voting twice will not be tolerated.”

    What did the county prosecutor, the elected official in charge of enforcing the law, do to preserve the sanctity of “one person, one vote?” Nothing. Instead the Prosecutor said, “This office will NOT press criminal charges with respect to the 2004 election on the assumption that you made an honest mistake.”

    Despite the evidence of potentially thousands of crimes, there were only eight criminal prosecutions stemming from the 2004 general election.

    With only a façade of enforcement, no one will stop criminals from committing crimes.

    This database is a resource for citizens who are concerned about election integrity, but do not have the time to track alleged crimes and prosecutions. Click on your county to learn about the number of possible crimes in your county and how many, if any, your prosecutor prosecuted. We have included the prosecuting attorney’s contact information, in case you would like to let them know how you feel about their actions or inaction.”

  17. 24

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Jack, Jack, Jack You can’t handle the truth . Konservative Krime Klown boilerplate isn’t gonna get it on this one.

  18. 25

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    “On October 22nd, a mere eleven days before the election, Ohio Republican Party Chairman Bob Bennett … sought to invalidate the registrations of 35,427 voters who had refused to sign for the letters [sent by the the same party] or whose mail came back as undeliverable.(66) Almost half of the challenged voters were from Democratic strongholds in and around Cleveland.(67)”

    “There were plenty of valid reasons that voters had failed to respond to the mailings: The list included people who couldn’t sign for the letters because they were serving in the U.S. military, college students whose school and home addresses differed,(68) and more than 1,000 homeless people who had no permanent mailing address.(69) But the undeliverable mail, Bennett claimed, proved the new registrations were fraudulent.”

    “By law, each voter was supposed to receive a hearing before being stricken from the rolls.(70) Instead, in the week before the election, kangaroo courts were rapidly set up across the state at Blackwell’s direction that would inevitably disenfranchise thousands of voters at a time(71) — a process that one Democratic election official in Toledo likened to an ”inquisition.”(72)”

    Hmmm, that sounds familiar.

  19. 26

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Here is your beloved KING KLOWN KOUNTY’s results:
    King County Prosecuting Attorney: Norm Maleng
    Term expires November 2006
    Contact Information:
    W554 King County Courthouse
    516 Third Avenue
    Seattle, WA 98104
    P: (206) 296-9000 F: (206) 296-9013
    attorney.prosecuting@metrokc.gov

    Allegations of Fraud
    Illegal Votes that Counted:

    754 felons voted.
    At least 2 non-citizens voted.
    175 provisional ballots were improperly counted, because 785 provisional ballots were mishandled.
    348 provisional ballots were put into the voting machines and as a result 96 ballots were improperly counted.
    437 provisional ballots were cast without labels and as a results 79 ballots were improperly counted.
    Signatures were forged on absentee ballots.
    At least one signature collected by party workers to validate provisional ballots was forged.
    Up to 178 double voters have been identified
    8 dead people were credited with voting
    One man destroyed his dead wife’s ballots, but she was credited with voting
    89 ballots counted with envelopes correctly marked “Fatal Pend,” because of an incomplete voter registration. Election officials overruled the rejection and instructed that the ballots be counted
    30 Provisional ballots were cast by unregistered voters were discovered. Most of these voters were assigned to Precinct 1823, home of the King County Administration Building, even though their residential addresses are in different jurisdictions
    146 Provisional ballots were counted even though markings on the envelope show that it was known that the same voters had already cast absentee ballots. Both ballots were counted
    At the Life Care Center in Auburn, signs indicated a meeting was held before the general election for all residents to attend and get help filling out their absentee ballots, although most of the residents do not have the ability to objectively fill out their ballots
    A Parkinson’s Disease patient’s husband signed and submitted her ballot
    35 voters who registered after October 18, 2004, the eligibility deadline for the November 2004 election voted provisional in the November 2004 election. Their registrations were back-dated in the database, which allowed their provisional ballots to be improperly counted
    More than 100 ineligible unregistered voters had their federal write-in votes counted although they did not comply with state and federal law for submitting overseas write-in ballots
    Legal Votes that didn’t count:

    96 absentee ballots were not counted, because King County lost them until after the second recount
    More than 40 valid ballots from overseas and military voters were incorrectly rejected for having a late postmark
    Several military ballots, not including the above, were not counted, for no apparent reason
    More than 30 voters who cast party-line votes on federal write-in ballots had their votes incorrectly not counted
    (Possibly) Illegal Actions by Election Officials:

    Election officials modified ballots where voter intent was not clear
    Observers saw enhancements made by 1 election worker (not 2 as state law requires) and the enhancements were being made with black markersbr>
    At least 340 military ballots were mailed out late
    King County Elections Director Dean Logan admitted that he fraudulently certified an election with information he knew to be incorrect—a class C felony
    Dean Logan knew before certification that some number of provisional ballots went through the Accuvote voting machines
    There were 1,802 more votes than voters, including 875 more absentee ballots than absentee voters. Possible reasons for the wrong numbers include:
    Before all absentee ballots were verified, provisional ballots were being processed and counted, in violation of the WAC
    The absentee ballot audit trail did not account for all ballots returned into the building. The lack of internal audit controls allowed ballots to go missing or appear from nowhere with no internal audit controls
    King County did not have an inadequate accounting of blank ballots. How many were printed, how many were returned unused; how many ballots were printed “on demand” in the office, or which of the office staff even had the access and ability to print ballots on demand
    Polling place inspectors (who were appointed by the Democrat Party in 2004) were given blank ballots to take home the Friday before the election—the number of ballots is known only to the nearest 20. The inspectors were not required to account for and return any remaining unused ballots after the election. They were told to return the destroyed ballots, but no one in Elections counted the number of destroyed ballots to ensure that all ballots were accounted for
    3500 duplicate ballots were sent out and no measures were taken to ensure that the duplicate ballots were not counted
    3 uncounted ballots were discovered in election facilities after final certification
    King County election workers began tabulation of absentee ballots early—in violation of the RCWs
    County election workers failed to complete and present their poll site ballot reconciliation to the Canvassing Board as required by WAC 434-253-204
    King County Elections Superintendent Bill Huennekens transported 573 unsecured ballots by himself
    Canvassing board counted both a “Christine Rossi” ballot and a “no” vote for “Christine Gregoire” as “yes” votes for “Christine Gregoire”
    Absentee Ballot Supervisor Nicole Way (with the knowledge of her supervisor, Assistant Superintendent of Elections Garth Fell) filed a false report on mail ballots
    Illegal Registrations:

    King County illegally registered individuals who gave the County Courthouse as their residence and mailing address. 82 were registered there and 18 were permanent absentee voters
    527 people were registered at King County Administration building, including a Judge who works there and voters who reside overseas
    Miscellaneous Fraud:

    Provisional ballots were reproduced at Kinkos
    Homeless advocacy groups issued written instructions for registering homeless that said to only get their signature when registering them to vote
    A voter registration drive was held for convicted felons in King County
    Prosecutions to Date

    Eight prosecuted for double voting.

  20. 27

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Just don’t forget, Konservative Krime Klowns, the voter fraud discovered in Washington was Republican Voter Fraud. Spin that one Krime Klown.

  21. 28

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    In all of the words posted by Mr. C., there is nothing that points to Republican voters being singled out.

    In Ohio, there was clear targeting of Democratic districts.

  22. 29

    LeftTurn spews:

    In other words, the KKK right wing of the taliban GOP is okay with fraud, just so long as it cost Dems votes. Otherwise, they don’t like it. And by the way, the case in Chelan pointed out that the only ILLEGAL – read that FRAUDULENT votes counted in the most recent Washington State election for Governor were cast for the republican by republicans. Therefore, it looks like ANOTHER case of a republican crook voting for a republican crook.

  23. 30

    daCascadian spews:

    And here is some interesting evidence on the 2000 Theft; think overvotes

    from “The Battle for Florida

    “After spending 36 days in the fall of 2000 in thrall to politicians, pundits and the press, Americans probably thought they knew all about the hanging, dangling and pregnant chads that helped decide the presidential election.

    Turns out, those chads only distracted attention from much more grievous breakdowns during the 2000 election…For the past 25 years, deHaven-Smith has been one of just a handful of observers of Florida’s elections and politics. And while most of his colleagues don’t go as far as he does in finding fault with Florida’s elected officials, none question his stature as respected researcher who can be counted on to provide the press with timely and pithy appraisals of just about any development in the colorful world of Florida politics.

    For this book (his ninth), deHaven-Smith compiled legal documents, statistical analyses and public records, and flavored them with his interpretation of what it all means…”

    “…It is those who describe me as an extremist who happen to be the extremists against whom I am warning the electorate.” – George Soros

  24. 31

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    “Lance deHaven-Smith: It’s an embarrassing outcome for George Bush because it showed that Gore had gotten more votes. Everybody had thought that the chads were where all the bad ballots were, but it turned out that the ones that were the most decisive were write-in ballots where people would check Gore and write Gore in, and the machine kicked those out. There were 175,000 votes overall that were so-called “spoiled ballots.” About two-thirds of the spoiled ballots were over-votes; many or most of them would have been write-in over-votes, where people had punched and written in a candidate’s name. And nobody looked at this, not even the Florida Supreme Court in the last decision it made requiring a statewide recount. Nobody had thought about it except Judge Terry Lewis, who was overseeing the statewide recount when it was halted by the U.S. Supreme Court. The write-in over-votes have really not gotten much attention. Those votes are not ambiguous. When you see Gore picked and then Gore written in, there’s not a question in your mind who this person was voting for. When you go through those, they’re unambiguous: Bush got some of those votes, but they were overwhelmingly for Gore. For example, in an analysis of the 2.7 million votes that had been cast in Florida’s eight largest counties, The Washington Post found that Gore’s name was punched on 46,000 of the over-vote ballots it, while Bush’s name was marked on only 17,000.”

    Here in Washington, the Republicans don’t want us to look at and duplicate ballots. They say voter intent can’t be determined. They are liars.

  25. 34

    rhp6033 spews:

    “Despite the evidence of potentially thousands of crimes, there were only eight criminal prosecutions stemming from the 2004 general election.”

    Focus on the word POTENTIALLY. You can’t prosecute based upon a POTENTIAL crime. You have to be able to prove to all 12 jurors that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Despite Cynical’s allegations, the prosecutors obviously didn’t have a case against all but a few.

    Of course, this is typical smoke thrown out by the Republicans regarding the 2004 election. A less than 1% error rate at best, and they are still trying to claim THOUSANDS of votes were improperly cast. They even chose the county and the judge to make their case, and it couldn’t stick. The fact the judge was a fair one apparantly wasn’t something they hadn’t counted on, they presumed that he knew his job was to rule in their favor like all good Republicans.

  26. 35

    Richard Pope spews:

    For example, in an analysis of the 2.7 million votes that had been cast in Florida’s eight largest counties, The Washington Post found that Gore’s name was punched on 46,000 of the over-vote ballots it, while Bush’s name was marked on only 17,000.”

    Commentby Harry Tuttle— 6/1/06@ 1:25 pm

    Those numbers are probably correct, but it doesn’t mean that (1) a large number of the over-votes were same candidate write-in overvotes or (2) that Gore got significantly more same candidate write-in overvotes than Bush.

    Most of the overvotes in Florida came from counties where the presidential candidates (there were 10 of them in Florida in 2000) were listed in either two separate columns (on optical scan ballots) or on two separate pages (on punchcard ballots). Many people voted for one presidential candidate on each page or each column, thus invalidating their vote.

    Overvotes also happened (less frequently by the way) in Palm Beach County, which used the butterfly ballot — candidates listed on both sides on the page — making people vote for two line numbers in a row, because the presidential candidate and vice-presidential candidate were on separate lines, rather than follow the arrow to the correct punch circle.

    Vastly more Gore supporters did the two candidate overvote, than did Bush supporters. In some poor, heavily black precincts, which Gore otherwise carried by well over 90%, the percentage of double candidate overvotes was in the 25% range — enough to wipe out Bush’s victory margin if only a couple of these precincts had all voted correctly.

    As for the same candidate write-in overvote, these probably broke down more evenly between Bush and Gore. In any event, under Florida law, such votes were probably invalid in 2000. Otherwise, Gore would have made a big stink about this at the time.

  27. 36

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    Republicans love the overvote.

    When I took the training for the 2004 recount, Bill Hunnekens instructed us to count as an overvote any mark in two ovals. One filled in fully and a pen drop on another, that was to be an overvote.

    I got on the phone to the Democratic Party, and the next day we were informed that “overvotes” would be send to the canvassing board.

    Tricky, those Republican liars.

  28. 37

    Huh? spews:

    So in Florida people were too dumb to vote properly using the butterfly machines, etc. and in Ohio people were to easily discouraged by long lines.

    Failed Dem execution lost both elections for you.

    Lesson: when you program your voters in minority districts make sure and tell them that they have to vote legally, properly and they actually have to vote, or the votes won’t count. You want dumb, easily goaded voters, but you also want them to be smart, determined voters.

    The Democrat Paradox.

  29. 38

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    A write-in overvote where the write-in is the same as the candidate voted for should count as a vote for the candidate.

    Come off it, Richard, the only stink raised in 2000 was by the Republican Party. Warren Christoper was a wimp.

  30. 39

    Jack Burton spews:

    Mr. Frog Farmer: Calling me a name is childish and doesn’t advance your side of the “debate.”

    Other than going on and on about exit polls there is very little “meat” in the allegations listed here. Until officials are elected by exit polls I’m not buying it.

    The allegations agains KC elections are far more specific and credible. Besides the judge ruled a standard that is impossible. Determine how the individual actually voted in a secret ballot election. Yeah right!

    Let’s just say for for a moment the Ohio WAS “stolen.” You’re just pissd that you were taken down by your own tactics.

    This is why lefties hate Ann Coulter. She spouts off like a dyed in the wool liberal, calling peoples names and using invective language. But it’s OK when Al Franken & Co. does it.
    Sure it is.

    Can you say double standard? **Or just call me more names.**

  31. 40

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    37.

    That’s the Republican rant, folks. Those machines are god, if you can’t get the machine to count your vote you’re “too dumb”.

    Jim Crow is alive and well, he just changed parties.

  32. 42

    freek spews:

    “This nonsense has be repeatedly debunked little koolaid gulpers.

    Nice try.

    Commentby howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS”

    Nice try indeed. RTFAs. The TomPaine article only talks about exit polls, whereas the Rolling Stone article cites numerous discrepancies.

    Another classic GOP trick: one small refutation, refutes the entire case. We may see the entire playbook in this one thread.

  33. 43

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    “Kerry Wins!” by Goldy, 06/01/2006, 12:10 PM

    Gore won, in any case -Commentby Harry Tuttle— 6/1/06@ 1:59 pm

    President George W. Bush 2001 – present.

    {snicker}

  34. 44

    Jack Burton spews:

    Gore LOST because he was INEFFECTIVE. Rather than call for a full state revote (until after it was too late and no longer an option) he tried to cherry pick precincts that would favor his bid for election.

  35. 45

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Here is a little tid-bit that came across my investment e-mailbox:
    Dear NewsMax and MoneyNews Reader,

    Saudi Arabia’s oil minister Ali al-Naimi is warning that oil price hikes and global oil demand could soon disappear.

    In fact, he is also warning that oil prices could easily “plummet” in the near future.

    Ali al-Naimi said prices could plummet if an economic crisis drives industrialized nations to find other sources of energy, citing the 1980s – when oil prices dropped by 80 percent after such nations reduced their dependency on oil and turned to alternative energy sources.

    ”Global economic growth may not continue at the same good momentum for years to come,” al-Naimi said at the opening of a four-day conference of Arab energy ministers in Amman. ”We should be careful and not take expectations as indisputable, especially the continuation of big demand for oil and its prices remaining at the same level or increasing,” he said.

    As you may know, Financial Intelligence Report, a sister publication of NewsMax and MoneyNews, has already issued the same warning to our investors. We also have revealed how investors can profit from the coming oil price drop – find out more. Read More Below.

    Our track record on oil is impressive. In April 2004, Financial Intelligence Report predicted that oil prices would skyrocket from $29 per barrel to over $60 within 12 months. That forecast was dead on.

    Today we feel that oil prices will continue to dramatically fall in the next 12 months to as low as $40 a barrel!

    What do you KLOWNS think about that prediction??
    I find it hard to believe myself….but I would think prices will drop below $60 before they hit $80.
    Whaddya KLOWNS think??

  36. 46

    rhp6033 spews:

    Just out of curiosity, if we rely upon exit polling to identify voter fraud, what are we going to do when we move to mail-only balloting? I like the paper trail that mail-in balloting provides (i.e., an actual paper ballot), but there is no way exit polling can be conducted the way it has been in the past.

  37. 47

    Gorditos de los Alberto spews:

    re 39: There’s plenty of “meat” in the allegations against Republicans: Blackwell’s paper weight scam, the shifting of voting machines, organized phone calling threatening legal voters with jail time, expunging voter rolls illegally. All of these are fully documented facts.

    Your bland denial of an obvious truth makes you as culpable as the people who actually did the cheating.

    Ask yourself this Jackie Boy: If we can’t get some justice on these phony elections, what do you suppose a valid move would be to make a person like yourself a believer in honest elections? What loss are you willing to take in return for the one you are inflicting?

  38. 48

    christmasghost spews:

    frog @16…surely you jest! god can you really be this dumb? “If today Republicans have difficulty admitting to being Republican,”
    and just where did you come up with this little bit of info? and who has trouble “admitting” to being a republican ? careful…your commie slip is showing again. we have two major political parties in the US and no one with any brains has any trouble “admitting” [as if it were a crime] to being either. it’s nasty little pieces of work like you that are trying to undermine this great country.and why? because it gives a wee little man like yourself something else to complain about. and when you are complaining it’s like you are the center of the universe.
    but here’s a tip for you….you’re not. so get over it.
    and goldy….good grief …have you been into al gore’s koolaid again? just when i think you can’t be a bigger joke….you are.

  39. 49

    LeftTurn spews:

    Asswipe at 43….that draft-dodging – AWOL coward might be YOUR president, but he certainly isn’t mine. And based on the polls, you’re one of the few idiots still stupid enough to support the Liar and Chief!

  40. 50

    GBS spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 45:

    Interesting article in Business Week that you should read. Hugo Chavez said there is excess oil on the world market and there should be a “minimum” price of $50 per bbl.

    So you may be right about this one, I’ll go along with you and say we’ll see $60 per bbl before we see $80 with one condition. Military conflict with Iran. Since, as you very well know, oil is purchased in the futures market and any more turmoil in the Persian Gulf, even if just serious saber rattling, could drive the price above $80.

    One last interesting note. I noticed lately that the price of oil is still being set by US Dollars, there is commonly a equivalent “Euro” cost. As I’ve said before, if oil is traded in Euros it will devalue the dollar tremendously and our runaway national debt and enormous trade surplus will cripple our economy.

    http://www.businessweek.com/ap.....38;chan=db

  41. 51

    Richard Pope spews:

    A write-in overvote where the write-in is the same as the candidate voted for should count as a vote for the candidate.

    Commentby Harry Tuttle— 6/1/06@ 1:52 pm

    Okay Harry — you’re a pretty smart fellow. So a question:

    Do you have any sources to show the number of two candidate overvotes versus same candidate write-in overvotes in Florida 2000, and how the latter category may have broken between Bush and Gore?

    All I have been able to find (so far) is the speculation by Lance deHaven-Smith in his article in Research in Review Magazine, Florida State University, Fall/Winter 2005:

    http://www.rinr.fsu.edu/winter.....field.html

    DeHaven-Smith speculates that many African-American voters decided to be really careful and wrote-in Al Gore, in addition to punching or marking his name. But he cites no statistics or sources for his theory.

    As for myself, I remember looking at the precinct breakdowns in several Florida counties from counties that put these on-line. The heavily African-American (in the South, this can mean nearly 100%) precincts were easy to spot, since there were some where Gore got 95% or 98% of the vote. But we can simply IGNORE race for a minute — since Gore did get nearly all the vote in many precincts, for whatever reason.

    Duval County in 2000 use a punchcard system. The presidential candidates were listed on two separate pages. So Duval would have been prone to double votes for President — a candidate from the first page (which included Gore and Bush) and a candidate from the second page (which included four or five largely unknown minor party candidates).

    The other top-of-the-ballot race was for U.S. Senate, which was won by Democrat Bill Nelson. There were only two or three candidates for U.S. Senate, and they would have all been on the same page.

    (Do you remember punch card ballots? You stick them in the ballot holder, and there is a heavy cardboard book, with several pages, that line up to each line on the punch card ballot. You flip each page, and vote for the candidates according on each page. Florida law required the candidates for President and Vice-President be listed on separate lines. So if there were more than five or six — ten in Florida 2000 — you had to use two punchcard pages, or the butterfly arrangement on the other side of the page. If the same race appears on two consecutive pages, it is understandable why the less observant would vote twice.)

    As I recall, the Duval County (Jacksonville) vote for President in heavy 90%+ Gore precincts was often 20% to 25% less than the vote for U.S. Senate — as in the total number of valid votes recorded in the race.

    If African-Americans (or any other group) thought it important to both mark the ballot and write-in the same candidate, then presumably they would have done this in each race, and not just for President. In such event, the U.S. Senate valid vote should not have been significantly higher than the President valid vote.

    Another issue is write-in votes on punch card ballots. As I recall, this is not very easy to do. You have to write the names in on a ballot security flap, which folds back over the punch card section. When ballots are later tabulated, each one is inspected to see if votes are written on the security flap.

    If thousands, or even hundreds, of African-American (or other) voters in Duval County had written in Gore, the Democrat observers would have noticed this. Especially when the Gore write-ins vastly outnumbered the Bush write-ins.

    Absolutely nothing was said or heard about this in 2000. So presumably nothing of the sort happened on any major scale.

  42. 52

    Gentry Lange spews:

    http://easylink.d2productions......cobb05.wvx

    For those of you that think, “long lines” were some small thing that people could easily out wait, and that people were just “too lazy” watch the video, then say it again. This was deliberate and intentional… and oddly enough not on either a D or R website.

    The partisan views add nothing to an accurate view of how elections are being rigged in Ohio, or Washington.

  43. 53

    Richard Pope spews:

    “A review by the Jacksonville-based Florida Times-Union found that nearly 42 percent of the discarded votes in Duval County came from City Council Districts 7, 8, 9 and 10, located in predominantly African-American areas of Jacksonville. More than 11,300 of the 59,650 ballots in those four districts—about 19 percent—were thrown out. By comparison, 7.5 percent were discarded in District 4, where 64 percent voted for Bush.”

    “Nearly 22,000 out of the 27,000 votes were nullified because voters chose more than one presidential candidate. Like Palm Beach County, a confusing ballot contributed to the large number of so-called overvotes. In Duval County 10 presidential candidates were listed over two pages. A sample ballot made public before the election included instructions to “Vote each page.” A different ballot, telling voters to “turn page for continued list of candidates for president and vice president,” was presented on Election Day. It is likely that many voters picked a president on page one, then voted again on the second page, resulting in the discarding of their votes.”

    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2.....-d13.shtml

  44. 55

    Jack Burton spews:

    Ask yourself this Jackie Boy: If we can’t get some justice on these phony elections, what do you suppose a valid move would be to make a person like yourself a believer in honest elections?

    Vote in person and show ID
    Mail-in votes only for valid reasons not convenience.
    Non participation in 2 elections requires re-registration
    Show proof of citizenship and valid address to register
    Enhancement of ballots NOT authorized
    zero balance account by election officials of envelopes vs signatures in voting books.
    cut off date for counting, eliminates “Oh we found some ballots.”

  45. 56

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    44.

    What Gore originally wanted is irrelevant to determining who would have won Florida had not the U.S. Supreme Court (SCOTUS) intervened. The Florida Supreme court went beyond Gore’s original request, and mandated manualrecounts in any county where there were undervoteshttp://supct.law.cornell.edu/s.....9.ZPC.html

    SCOTUS instructed the state courts to devise a recount method that would apply equal standards, a move that would have included all ballots where the intent of the voter was clear. The state got only two hours to complete this assignment, effectively handing Florida’s 25 electoral votes to Bush.

    It is undoubtedly true that the Gore/Lieberman team was completely out maneuvered by Jim Baker and Co., but Jim Baker shouldn’t be able to declare the outcome of an election any more than SCOTUS.

    Republicans cannot survive when all the votes get counted. They’ve got to kill Democratic votes.

  46. 57

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    Just a hint koolaid guzzlers…. your fixations on the past is the reason you don’t win in the present.

    But, please Kerry ON!

  47. 58

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    2nd try to get all the closing gtr symbols in.

    What Gore originally wanted is irrelevant to determining who would have won Florida had not the U.S. Supreme Court (SCOTUS) intervened. The Florida Supreme court went beyond Gore’s original request, and mandated manualrecounts in any county where there were undervotes:

    “The [Florida Supreme] court further held that relief would require manual recounts in all Florida counties where so-called “undervotes” had not been subject to manual tabulation. The court ordered all manual recounts to begin at once”.

    http://supct.law.cornell.edu/s.....9.ZPC.html

    SCOTUS instructed the state courts to devise a recount method that would apply equal standards, a move that would have included all ballots where the intent of the voter was clear. The state got only two hours to complete this assignment, effectively handing Florida’s 25 electoral votes to Bush.

    It is undoubtedly true that the Gore/Lieberman team was completely out maneuvered by Jim Baker and Co., but Jim Baker shouldn’t be able to declare the outcome of an election any more than SCOTUS.

  48. 61

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    ARMY DOG HANDLER CONVICTED

    An Army sergeant was convicted by court-martial today on Abu Ghraib detainee abuse charges, bringing to 11 the number of soldiers found guilty of criminal conduct in the treatment of Iraqi prisoners.

    Remember when the rightwing fucks pooh-poohed the torture charges, said it was all b.s., etc.? Well, folks, they LIED and tried to COVER UP criminal conduct. Unpatriotic bastards — and these traitors have the NERVE to plaster American Flags on their cars and call themselves “patriots.”

    And now that proof is before us that the 2004 election was STOLEN in Ohio by massive FRAUD committed by REPUBLICANS, they’ll pooh-pooh that, too, and say it’s all b.s., etc.

    Given the rightwing fucks’ sorry record of LYING and COVERING UP criminal conduct by the illegitimate Bush administration, anything they say about the Rolling Stone article is just RIGHT WING PARTISAN BULLSHIT and ain’t worth a BUCKET OF WARM SPIT.

  49. 62

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Right wingers are traitors and criminals, and should all be strung up. Just kidding, ha-ha! Hey, if Ann Coulter can joke about killing liberals, why can’t I crack jokes about hanging Republican scumbags?

  50. 63

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    6

    Hey buttfuck, I’m talking about YOU when I refer to right-wing traitors who should be hanged — but I’m just kidding about the hanging part, ha-ha-ha!!!

  51. 64

    Gentry Lange spews:

    Problems with Absentees and Optical Scanners in OHIO, NO WAY!!!

    http://www.ohio.com/mld/beacon.....710062.htm

    “Panel member Thomas Hayes, the director of the Ohio Lottery, identified the absentee ballot system as the other major problem that needs addressed. The panel has asked the county commissioners to hire Denver-based SysTest Labs to investigate why optical scanners couldn’t provide accurate counts of absentee ballots.”

    Odd, that could never happen in King County, why… cause it’s Democrats who run the system of course.

  52. 65

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    8

    Hey Ass, you should be hanged as a traitor, too — but remember, I’M JUST KIDDING!!! (About hanging you, that is.)

    HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR

  53. 67

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Now we have to figure out how to keep these fascist bastards from appointing Brother Jeb to the White House in 2008. If we can’t choose our own government in this country anymore — if we’re going to be stuck with these lying, thieving, warmongering, torturing, fuckers forever — then we’ve got two choices:

    [ ] 1. Resign ourselves to living under a right-wing dictatorship
    [ ] 2. Guns

  54. 70

    Richard Pope spews:

    Commentby Roger Rabbit— 6/1/06@ 3:13 pm

    [ ] 1. Resign ourselves to living under a right-wing dictatorship
    [ ] 2. Guns
    [X] 3. Eat Rabbit stew to solve overpopulation problems.

  55. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    68

    Lock and load! If they steal a third consecutive presidential election, the majority whose constitutional rights are being trampled ought to take this country apart. There should be massive riots in the streets until the Republican gangsters are forced to board their corporate jets and seek refuge in Paraguay.

  56. 73

    GBS spews:

    RR:

    While the Bush admin is busy abolishing our civil rights, at least they’ve left the 2nd amendment alone.

    I think you know what I mean. And, I’m not kidding. Yes, I am. No, I’m not. Well, as much as Tranny Annie kids around.

  57. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    71 (continued)

    And then we should convene Special Tribunals and hunt them down like dogs, like the Israelis hunted the Nazis.

  58. 76

    rwb spews:

    Let’s shove that 2nd ammendment right up their Republican asses (if you know what I mean..)

  59. 77

    Richard Pope spews:

    State Comptroller Alan Hevesi publicly apologized Thursday for a “beyond dumb” remark about a fellow Democrat putting “a bullet between the president’s eyes.”

    Hevesi called a mea culpa press conference hours after putting his foot in his mouth at the Queens College commencement.

    Havesi gave the following tribute to U.S. Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY):

    “The man who, how do I phrase this diplomatically, who will put a bullet between the president’s eyes if he could get away with it. The toughest senator, the best representative. A great, great member of the Congress of the United States.”

    http://www.wnbc.com/politics/9306297/detail.html

  60. 78

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    rhp sez:
    ““Despite the evidence of potentially thousands of crimes, there were only eight criminal prosecutions stemming from the 2004 general election.”
    Focus on the word POTENTIALLY. You can’t prosecute based upon a POTENTIAL crime. You have to be able to prove to all 12 jurors that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Despite Cynical’s allegations, the prosecutors obviously didn’t have a case against all but a few.”

    Actually there are many cases where the person admitted double-voting. Some told the prosecutor it was a “mistake”. You can’t believe some of the excuses and nonsense on some of these double votes….”MY DOG DID IT!!”

  61. 80

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    You’d actually have to be NOT AFRAID of guns and OWN one… you know, with real bullets and everything… to make a threat… but then of course it will take you a week to open the safe, unlock the trigger, locate said bullets, unlock them, load them into the gun and THEN NOT FLINCH ATTEMPTING TO PULL THE TRIGGER WHILE YOUR EYES ARE CLOSED.

    I suggest you girls stick with something you can handle… like a spatula.

  62. 81

    GBS spews:

    @ 75:

    Couldn’t we just skip the where we force them on their corporate jets and hunt them down like the fascists Nazi’s they are, or do you just like to give them a “sporting chance?”

    Personally, I am against the “sporting chance” school of thought, but you’re nicer than I am.

  63. 82

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    We won’t need to lock and load when the GOP continues to hold its positions as the leader and the majority… the adult dRAT Roe effect will occur… self abortion of hapless losers.

  64. 84

    GBS spews:

    @ 80:

    OK, good one. You actually made me laugh. Yeah, you’re right, folks like Roger Rabbit and me don’t have any experience with guns and such.

    How’d like your eggs, sunny side up, or over easy?

  65. 87

    Richard Pope spews:

    What is a Roger Rabbit?

    A Roger Rabbit is born outside and raised without close human contact. A Roger Rabbit does not have the instincts of the wild rabbit. A Roger Rabbit will tunnel about 12 inches under the ground. They have the burrowing instincts of their wild cousins, but that does not translate into being able to dig deep enough to keep warm in the winter. These tunnels also collapse when it rains. Over time, breeding without human intervention, their colors return to that of their ancestors, so that at first glance they look wild. With time and patience, a Roger Rabbit can be brought into a human home and learn to appreciate, rather than fear, the human touch. They will enjoy lounging on your sofa, or laying over a heat vent. Given enough time and patience, a Roger Rabbit will become indistinguishable from our domestic pets. There are many people in the Seattle area who have rescued Roger Rabbits from Woodland Park, and can attest to what a great pet they have become.

    The back legs of Roger Rabbits are not as long as wild rabbits, their front legs have greater width and their face is not as pointed. Roger Rabbits have, in general a larger body image than their wild cousins. Roger Rabbits often run away from their burrows when frightened or chased, frequently leading to disastrous results.

    http://www.woodlandparkrabbits.....bbits.html

  66. 88

    GBS spews:

    @ 86:

    Kind of a grainy photo. Was that Harry Whittington hunting with Dick “Gun Safety right winger” Cheney?

  67. 89

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Isn’t it interesting that Dubya “won” each of his elections by one state, and in both 2000 and 2004, he obtained his winning margin of electoral votes in states where elections were controlled by GOP officials and massive irregularities have been documented.

  68. 91

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Interesting article in Business Week that you should read. Hugo Chavez said there is excess oil on the world market and there should be a “minimum” price of $50 per bbl.
    So you may be right about this one, I’ll go along with you and say we’ll see $60 per bbl before we see $80 with one condition. Military conflict with Iran. Since, as you very well know, oil is purchased in the futures market and any more turmoil in the Persian Gulf, even if just serious saber rattling, could drive the price above $80.
    Commentby GBS— 6/1/06@ 2:29 pm

    GBS—
    I believe this whole oil price bullshit is a Wall Street fix.
    Prices are going to drop quickly.
    I sold out part of my oil holding last November….and the rest of my oil stocks in April and Early May.
    I am 100% OUT of oil.
    Question GBS—
    What play should I make if I’m convinced oil prices will plummet in the next 4 months?????

  69. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    79

    “It is a quiet peaceful place for him to recover from his castration wounds. Commentby Richard Pope— 6/1/06@ 3:24 pm”

    I can’t comment on that, Richard, due to lack of knowledge on this subject matter. Why don’t you ask their veterinarian whether it’s a quiet peaceful place for HIM to recover from HIS castration wounds?

  70. 93

    GBS spews:

    HCYBPTBAA @ 83:

    Why don’t they put a picture of Dick Cheney on that ad? Afterall, out of the 4 people, Al Gore, Sen Feinstein, Rosie, and “Dead Eye” Dick, only Dick has discharged his weapon carelessly and shot a fellow hunter.

  71. 96

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    76

    If you can get about four inches of the barrel in before you pull the trigger, that should get the job done.

  72. 97

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    51.

    I can’t imagine that anyone has looked at those ballots for the write-in overvote case, it’s real inside baseball. I’m sure deHaven-Smith is applying his pasts analyses of Florida voting over the years to those vote.

    I can say that the write-in overvote was pretty prevalent in 2005, but I doubt the numbers were tracked, since they were duplicated for the candidates the voters were clearly voting for.

    The first thing that struck me about deHaven-Smith’s statement was his estimate of the number of overvotes, 2/3 the total spoiled ballots, about 115,000. Even if only the WaPo look at the for Gore, for Bush ones gets us 63,000. In King County in 2004 there were 218 overvotes in the Governor’s race. That tells me that more than 1,000 in Florida should raise alarm.

    An true overvote is a pretty rare thing, even when SoundPolitics readers are marking them intentionally, as they did in 2005. States that are reporting overvotes in the tens of thousands are running operations that are throwing out valid votes. Even on punch card the chads should not fall out that easily. In a marked ballot system, I don’t buy it at all.

    In addition, 50,000 more ballots that were spoiled strikes me as odd.

    6.5% of the ballots being thrown out is bad.

  73. 98

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    80

    “You’d actually have to be NOT AFRAID of guns and OWN one… you know, with real bullets and everything… to make a threat… but then of course it will take you a week to open the safe, unlock the trigger, locate said bullets, unlock them, load them into the gun and THEN NOT FLINCH ATTEMPTING TO PULL THE TRIGGER WHILE YOUR EYES ARE CLOSED.” Commentby howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS— 6/1/06@ 3:25 pm

    Not a problem, Ass. In the case of America-hating terrorist traitors like you, I could do it with my eyes open. Hey — just kidding! If Ann Coulter can joke about killing liberals, why can’t I joke about killing America-hating terrorist traitors like you?

  74. 99

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    All is not lost, my patriotic, true-blue, liberal friends! Their clumsy attempt to steal the Washington governor’s election for a former janitor backfired on them! Now they have egg all over their faces.

  75. 101

    YO spews:

    HEY HARRY TELL US AGAIN JOW MUCH GORE WON TN BY.OH THATS RIGHT HE NOT ONLY DID NOT WIN THE ELECTION BUT FAILED TO WIN HIS OWN STATE.HARRY GORES A LOSER AND SO SHOVE THAT UP YOUR ASS.YOU LOST GET OVER IT.

  76. 102

    Harry Tuttle spews:

    97.

    I looked on the wrong page, in the Governor’s race there were only 76 overvotes in the 2004 election.

  77. 103

    GBS spews:

    @ 91:

    I’ll have to think about that one. Off the top of my head though, shorting oil companies may be profitable, all though that’s not a play I ever make. I don’t dabble in the futures market either, but betting on Aug futures in oil at $60 bbl might not be bad either, if the price declines.

    A sector that I’ve been looking at lately, but have no plays selected yet, are companies the specialize in oil refinery construction, maintenance, repair, and pipe line construction. I believe oil refineries may get a chance to expand if the GOP holds their majority in both houses this fall.

    I am looking at a stock that I held about 2 years ago, GDP. It had one hell of a ride up and then couldn’t pass $30. Right now it’s falling in price and I’m not a bottom feeder for stock purcahses, but, in the last couple of weeks there’s been about $2 million dollars worth of purchases from inside traders @ 23.95 and $25.71.

    For me the fundamentals aren’t there technnically, but when a beneficial owner plunks down $2 million of his own money, it does get my attention.

    What are you considering?

  78. 104

    das spews:

    I like G. W. Bush and so should you. Cheney is a good guy, too. I don’t understand all the hostility found here towards these two great Americans.

  79. 106

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    Whoa! Talk about your breach of blog ettiquete!

    Oh, never mind, that only applies to non-liberals.

  80. 110

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    But at least the GOP is engaged in a war over real policy choices. It is an emotional debate, often a hysterical and ill-informed one, but it is a fight among adults who know what they believe in and who have the guts to battle for it. By contrast the Democrats, ostensibly the party poised to exploit this GOP civil war, don’t seem to remember what it is like to behave as adults. They resemble nothing so much as ill-adjusted adolescents, afraid of their own shadows, much less the presidency. What are they afraid of? Themselves, essentially: their past, their own left, the populist rhetoric of their leaders (Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Howard Dean, Al Gore), the left-wing loony stigma represented by “Fahrenheit 9/11” filmmaker Michael Moore (every Dem’s favorite bugaboo).

  81. 111

    GBS spews:

    YO @ 101:

    Originally, I was going to write some smart ass response to your post using double negatives in a run on sentence. But I just couldn’t dumb it down that far to write in the same manner as you do.

    So I’ll just say what your conservatives colleagues are thinking; “YO, Please stop posting. Your incoherent rants make us conservatives look really, really stupid. You are not helping to advance our cause. Please hang out an SP where nobody BUT republicans are writing and your ignorance won’t be on display for the whole world to see.”

    OK, run along you idiot savant.

    What is an idiot savant?
    The word idiot usually refers to a simpleton, in contrast to the word “savant” in French that means “learned one.” Idiot savants are a subgroup of a class of people called idiots with an IQ of about 25. .”

    Yep, that about sums it up for YO: an IQ of about 25.

  82. 112

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    By contrast the Democrats, ostensibly the party poised to exploit this GOP civil war, don’t seem to remember what it is like to behave as adults.

  83. 114

    rwb spews:

    Ass at 111

    They resemble nothing so much as ill-adjusted adolescents, afraid of their own shadows

    I thought the study showed that these sort of children (whiny, insecure, unadventurous) grew up to be conservatives??

  84. 115

    Animal Control Officer spews:

    Mr. Pope, if you catch that damned rabbit, we’ll pay you $50 for his belt.

  85. 116

    das spews:

    Problem is, none of the points raised in #106 is true.

    Bring on the next try to undermine GW Bush!

  86. 117

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Richard, just an FYI … three weeks ago, Animal Control offered a $50 reward for the location of my burrow, so I gave it to them and they DIDN’T PAY!!! Redneck isn’t the only welsher on this board. Just thought you oughta know before you make a big investment of your blood, your sweat, and your tears in trying to make a rabbit stew out of me.

    Your pal and brother before the Bar, Roger

  87. 118

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    107

    Yeah, Ass, I expect you WOULD have a problem with post #106. Way to go, Mr. Orwell!!! Now, Ass, do your country a favor and shoot yourself.

  88. 119

    howcanyoubePROUDtobeanASS spews:

    thought the study showed that these sort of children (whiny, insecure, unadventurous) grew up to be conservatives?? -Commentby rwb— 6/1/06@ 4:15 pm

    Sorry sweetcheeks, perhaps with your ADD you weren’t quite paying attention… it is NEWSWEEK that claims They resemble nothing so much as ill-adjusted adolescents, afraid of their own shadows.

    Of course, for once, I happen to agree with Newsweek.

  89. 120

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    117

    Problem is, none of the points raised in #106 is true.” Commentby das— 6/1/06@ 4:18 pm

    Instead of just blowing shit out of your ass, why don’t you give us some facts with footnotes to sources.

    Right wingers … when lying doesn’t work anymore, they try denying.

  90. 121

    LiberalRedneck spews:

    -But what is most anomalous about the irregularities in 2004 was their decidedly partisan bent: Almost without exception they hurt John Kerry and benefited George Bush.-

    Wow, sounds like the same way W pulled off his ‘win’ in 2000! Such a shame that the architect of that coup d’etat – Katherine Harris – is going down in flames….

    “Although not widely known until much later, Al Gore received 202 more votes than George W. Bush on election day in Florida. George W. Bush is president because he overcame his election day deficit with overseas absentee ballots that arrived and were counted after election day. In the final official tally, Bush received 537 more votes than Gore. These numbers are taken from the official results released by the Florida Secretary of State’s office and so do not reflect overvotes, undervotes, unsuccessful litigation, butterfly ballot problems, recounts that might have been allowed but were not, or any other hypothetical divergence between voter preferences and counted votes. After the election, the New York Times conducted a six-month investigation and found that 680 of the overseas absentee ballots were illegally counted, and almost no one has publicly disagreed with their assessment.

    …We also present a variety of new empirical results that delineate the precise conditions under which Al Gore would have been elected president, and offer new evidence of the striking effectiveness of the Republican effort to convince local election officials to count invalid ballots in Bush counties and not count them in Gore counties.”

    http://gking.harvard.edu/files.....-abs.shtml

  91. 122

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    GBS–
    I would never short a commodity directly. Makes me too squeamish.
    There are some Funds however that go against the Oil & Gas Market.
    I also might do of all things some PUT Options.
    I do have some Short-Term Capital Gains to offset any option losses.
    However, I do recall criticizing you for “gambling” and not “investing”…and this is way worse!
    I’ll let you know what I do when I do it so you can call me a greedy, dumbass RIGHTY when I lose.
    Options are about timing. Timing is about luck to some extent.
    I have done anything yet……..need to sleep on it and wait to hear from my broker who I trust.

  92. 123

    Anonymous spews:

    So why did the nation essentially shrug? It still infuriates me to this day. We’ve lost thousands of our men and women and trillions of dollars with these idiots and all people do is go “meh?”

    If there is any more evidence needed that the media is very conservative indeed just look to their “work” on the 2000 and 2004 elections.

  93. 125

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    125

    The fact that a few wonks attending a conference for professional pollsters didnit do a good job of articulating a case for election fraud doesn’t mean there was no election fraud.

    In any case, pollsters are not investigative journalists, and don’t see it as their job to expose election fraud. They’re statisticians by trade.

    Your link proves (or disproves) nothing.

  94. 126

    proud leftist spews:

    111
    ” . . . at least the GOP is engaged in a war over real policy choices. It is an emotional debate, often a hysterical and ill-informed one, but it is a fight among adults who know what they believe in and who have the guts to battle for it.”

    Dumbshit, do you believe that this is a plug for Republicans? Adults do not engage in “hysterical and ill-informed” policy debates. Republicans do, but adults do not. Scream loudly from your ill-informed positions, you troglodyte.

  95. 127

    spews:

    The trouble with the wishful thinking Donks is not that there was too much fraud. It was that there was not enough:

    Ohio Voter Fraud
    From MSNBC’s “The Abrams Report”

    October 19, 2004

    MSNBC’s DAN ABRAMS: We`re back. Who would have thought that Mary Poppins, Michael Jackson and George Foreman all lived in the same tiny little voting district in Ohio, not Beverly Hills, California. Officials in Defiance, Ohio, uncovered a number of voter registration forms with familiar names like Dick Tracy and Janet Jackson all with the addresses in the same Ohio block.

    The town sheriff, whom we`ll talk to in a moment, did some investigating and arrested a man who allegedly filled out more than 100 fake voter registration forms, but that`s not all. It wasn`t a spoonful of sugar that got Mary Poppins to register a vote. A spoonful of something else might have been responsible.

    Authorities say Chad Staton may have been paid with drugs, crack cocaine, for his efforts. Who paid him? Authorities say a woman named Georgianna Pitts confessed to just that. She says she was working with the NAACP Voter Fund in Toledo as a volunteer. Authorities say Pitts hired Staton to get people to fill out the voter registration forms and in return, Pitts gave Staton crack. Police raided Pitts` home and found drug paraphernalia, marijuana, voter registration forms. She`s now facing drug charges. Not surprisingly, her neighbors were a little surprised to hear the news.

    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

    UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She doesn`t appear to be the type of person that would do that type of thing or even be interested enough in politics.

    (END VIDEO CLIP)

    ABRAMS: Yes, you`ve got two problems. She apparently, according to the neighbor, didn`t seem like a drug dealer and wasn`t interested in politics.

    We called the NAACP. They would not come on the program. They did give us this statement.

    Quote — The NAACP National Voter Fund is shocked by the stories swirling in Ohio regarding a Defiance man who has allegedly filled in over 100 fraudulent voter registration forms in exchange for cocaine. The NAACP National Voter Fund has detailed guidelines outlining procedures that should be followed by volunteers. The individual arrested is not a volunteer on record with our organization. Any person who walks — works on behalf of NVF is required to abide by these guidelines and all applicable federal and state law.

    Joining me now is the man who arrested the man for faking the voter registration forms, Defiance County Ohio Sheriff David Westrick. Sheriff, thanks very much for taking the time to come on the program. We appreciate it.

    SHERIFF DAVID WESTRICK, DEFIANCE COUNTY OH: Thank you very much.

    ABRAMS: Tell me how you found out about this. I mean, you know, first you find out about fake voter registration forms. Does it all come together at one time or did it come in sort of point-by-point?

    WESTRICK: Well, we were contacted by our Board of Elections here in Defiance County and stated that they had received over 100 voter registrations from Cuyahoga County and that they didn`t look right. And so we went over and picked them up and we started to look at all of them. And when we saw that Janet Jackson and Dick Tracy had signed up to vote in Defiance County, we thought that to be suspicious. And through looking at all of those, we came up with a common denominator and that was Chad
    Staton.

    ABRAMS: So, you found that all the handwriting seems to match, et cetera. You get this group of forms together, and then what happened? How do you find out that at least this woman says she was paying — she admits that she was paying him crack to fill out these voter registration forms?

    WESTRICK: She was helpful to law enforcement. Chad stated that he was given a choice of crack or money and he chose to be paid with crack cocaine. And with — along with the help of the Toledo Police Department, we did a search warrant of her home and came up with some paraphernalia and also some voter registrations and she was also cooperative with law enforcement.

    ABRAMS: So, again, so let`s be clear. Neither of them are denying the allegations that you are laying out, is that correct?

    WESTRICK: That`s correct. Neither are denying that.

    ABRAMS: And how does this woman explain — I mean she is supposedly volunteering her time working to get people registered to vote. How does she explain her thinking process in giving this guy crack to fill out the voter registration forms?

    WESTRICK: Well, she stated she was paid $2 for each voter registration form that she could get for Thaddeus Jackson who works for the NAACP.

    ABRAMS: And they deny that, correct?

    WESTRICK: And — well, no, Thaddeus Jackson works for the NAACP and Georgianna Pitts was working for the NVF, and that isn`t denied. That…

    ABRAMS: What about the $2 though, the $2 per, is that — do they admit that they were paying her $2?

    WESTRICK: Well, our calls to the NAACP have gone unanswered, but we had receipts there that showed where they had paid her $2 to get people to register to vote.

    ABRAMS: Is that legal?

    WESTRICK: I believe it is.

    ABRAMS: Yes. OK. So that`s not the problem here as a legal matter, right? The legal problem…

    WESTRICK: No, the problem…

    ABRAMS: Yes. Go ahead. I`m sorry.

    WESTRICK: … is that Georgianna Pitts paid Staton with crack cocaine for the 100-plus registrations he took to her.

    ABRAMS: And again, any, you know, any indication from her as to how she decided, you know what, I really am interested in getting, you know, the vote out in this election and you know I`m thinking of a good way might be to pay this guy with crack.
    She give you any sense of what led her to come up with that solution?

    WESTRICK: Well, Georgianne thought what she was doing was very important getting people to register. It was just her way of paying for it is a way out of the ordinary.

    ABRAMS: Yes, to say the least. All right. Sheriff, finally, one other question. Sheriff, just to state for the purpose of disclosure, you are Republican-elected — is that true?

    WESTRICK: That`s correct.

    ABRAMS: And to those who say this is political, you would say what?

    WESTRICK: They don`t know me very well.

    ABRAMS: Sheriff Westrick, thanks for coming on the program. Appreciate it.

    WESTRICK: Thank you.

    ABRAMS: Good to see you. From now until Election Day, we`re going to keep on top of all the legal issues that could impact the election. You can get more information on NBC`s Making Your Vote Count project on our Web site, abramsreport.msnbc.com. While you`re there, sign up for our newsletter. Jamie will keep you up to date on what`s going on. She is writing these great newsletters. You`ll know ahead of time what stories we`re covering each day.

  96. 128

    spews:

    it’s cute how many of the same accusations made here in the governors race are just whiney republicans, but in Ohio they are solid proof of fraud.

    Hypocrites.

  97. 129

    Anonymous spews:

    Sven, nice source. That’s like listening to Rush talk about the evils of illegal drugs.

  98. 130

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    sven–
    I’m happy to see all the ugly facts come out.
    Most polls show that swing voters hate politicians in general.
    Now they will start hating Party wonks that undermine our whole system.
    This is all good…very good.
    The Dems like to think that all the negatives against R’s translates into positives for them.
    Nothing will be further from the truth come election time.
    3rd Party’s have a golden opportunity to get a foothold…if they find good honest candidates.
    That will be the most important criteria for voters…perceived honesty.

  99. 132

    A stoner who reads the rolling stone spews:

    Whoaaa dude. Another harding hitting piece from the Rolling stone. Kennedy is awesome duuuuudddde!!!! It reminds me of the article about prison abuse written by some guy name Manson. Gnarly dude.

  100. 133

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    Wow you dems seem awful pissed. Who is with me on making it mandatory to reregister every voter, give them an ID and make them show it at the polls. Get rid of vote-by-mail. Together we can stop voter fraud.

    Hehehehehehe-

    I
    Surely Hahahahaha you donks (snicker) are for that. So (hysterical laughter) who is with me.

    Ah this should be good. LMFAO

  101. 134

    For the Clueless spews:

    135 – DOOFUS – You forgot this:

    In another move certain to add to the traffic jam at the polls, the GOP deployed 3,600 operatives on Election Day to challenge voters in thirty-one counties – most of them in predominantly black and urban areas.(157) Although it was billed as a means to “ensure that voters are not disenfranchised by fraud,”(158) Republicans knew that the challengers would inevitably create delays for eligible voters. Even Mark Weaver, the GOP’s attorney in Ohio, predicted in late October that the move would “create chaos, longer lines and frustration.”(159

    I’m NOT with you on that.

  102. 135

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    136

    Well if reregister everyone then there should be voter challanges that we have now. No excuse Clueless. We need election reform. Are you with me Clueless!!!!

  103. 136

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    Correction
    Well if reregister everyone then there should be no voter challanges…..

  104. 137

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    Just imagine an election free from voter challanges and voter fraud. We can do it. No one lampooning the KCRE. No one blaming it on Diebold. Are you with me!!!

  105. 138

    For the Clueless spews:

    137 – The system today is in much better shape than in 2004. Sam Reed is making steady progress eliminating duplicates, dead voters, etc.

    Re-registration is just a right wing vote suppression tactic. A legitimate voter shouldn’t have to jump though the right-wing’s multiple hoops to exercise their rights. I’ve registered once for my precinct. Another time to make DOOFUS happy is trampling on my rights.

    There is already an ID requirement. Many people do not have picture ID because either they may have lost their picture ID and cannot afford fees to obtain another ID. Many people going to the polls might forget their ID. Again another vote supression tactic.

    Eliminating vote by mail is nostalgic but impractical. A large percentage of people in King County already vote by mail. If you take that away from them they may not vote. Again more vote suppression and in WA State’s largest voting block.

    Nice try DOOFUS..

  106. 139

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    Clueless

    We make people register their guns when they buy one. Why? Why should we make people jump through hoops just to own a gun? Do you consider the right to vote equal to the right to bear arms?

  107. 140

    For the Clueless spews:

    DOOFUS W. Bush:

    I’m not saying people shouldn’t have to register to vote. A citizen of this country who has obeyed the law and registered where they live shouldn’t have to do it AGAIN to please DOOFUS especially when DOOFUS is counting on them being too busy.

    Anything that makes it easier (like vote by mail) for a citizen to exercise their voting franchise – the right wing is against. The more the people participate in this democracy the more the right wing loses.

  108. 141

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    What clueless doesnt know is that I already got him in check mate. He can move on this in any direction he wants and I have him covered.

  109. 143

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    especially when DOOFUS is counting on them being too busy.

    You can register to vote anytime you feel like up to 1 month before the election. With the new system you would only have to register once for voting and if you ever move a simple change of address form is all that is need to route you to the proper polling place. So how about it Clueless!!

  110. 144

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    I tell you what. On the new ID we can even use a number linked to a finger print. That way voter rolls would be linked by numbers to the IDs taken at the polls. No one would know if you voted!!!! Is that awesome or what! No more jury duty! hehehehe

  111. 145

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    Come on Clueless. Be consistent here. You have got to be for this new system. Or to be consistent would you allow people to buy and sell guns with no restrictions as long as they are a registered gun owner. Whats is your answer clueless?

  112. 146

    For the Clueless spews:

    I’ve lived in the same place since 1992. I have no plans to go anywhere. I’ve registered already. Making me do it AGAIN is trampling on my rights. Stop interfering with my right to vote DOOFUS.

  113. 147

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    So if two owners trade guns then why do we make them register that gun. Isn’t that trampling on their rights? Why should the government know what kind of gun you own? Why should they even know you own a gun?

  114. 148

    For the Clueless spews:

    DOOFUS – the guns straw men you keep raising only illustrate the poverty and desperation of your argument.

    I’ll keep repeating. I have obeyed the law and registered to vote. Don’t make me do it again. We know your aim is to supress votes. Don’t trample on my rights.

  115. 149

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    I still got you in checkmate clueless. You can run but you can’t hide.

  116. 150

    Green Thumb spews:

    Rufus, it’s always “interesting” to visit your universe. Like MTR you can’t possibly entertain the idea that you could be in the slightest bit wrong. As such, why should anyone try to debate you?

    Really, this deserves an answer: What’s the point? Are you not infallible? And is not anyone who disagrees with you a “commie”?

    These are honest questions: Please educate me if I’ve missed something.

  117. 151

    For the Clueless spews:

    And you can’t hide your ugly vote suppression agenda DOOFUS which is the subject of this thread by the way.

    Do you deny that you want to make it harder for people to vote? I’ll answer that – of course you do.

    But we know you’re lying.

  118. 152

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    150

    I knew you would cave. You cant defend it because there is no defense. With rights come responsibilities. The government steps in all the time to make sure that your rights dont trample on other peoples rights. The gun laws are a perfect example. The government has the right to know who owns and carries guns in case the guns fall into the wrong hands or is misused by the owner. No different then my argument about voting rights. Yes you have the right to vote but with that you have an obligation to the govenrnment to register your right to vote to make sure it does not fall in the wrong hands (dead people) or missused by the owner (felons). Yes the responsibility may call on you registering more than once but that is a small price to pay to live in the greatest country on gods green earty. So are you with me Clueless!!!!

  119. 153

    Green Thumb spews:

    Interesting, Rufus that you ignored my question in order to press your own point. This discussion has been going on for months and months, and quite a few thoughtful people have directly answered your points. And yet you act as though you’ve just caught Clueless flatfooted.

    The real issue here is that you don’t listen, because you don’t want to, because you seem to see yourself a God’s right hand man.

  120. 154

    For the Clueless spews:

    154 –

    Part of growing up is realizing that people may have ulterior motives. We’re on to your motives DOOFUS. It is vote supression.

    Sam Reed is cleaning up the voting rolls. Is he not doing a good enough job for you DOOFUS?

  121. 155

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    See clueless, I dont understand why you lefties hollar so loudly at the supposed voter fraud you see from the right. If you believe that the right to vote should be loosely regulated then this sort of thing should not be suprising and should shrugged off as part of the price you pay of having a liberal voting registration process. That is why when liberals complain about voter fraud most people chuckle.

  122. 157

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    Bottom line guys. You cant have it both ways. You cant be taken seriously about voter fraud when you are not serious about voter registration. You can spin it all you want but the answer will always be the same. Your jokes.

  123. 160

    Green Thumb spews:

    Rufus ain’t going to, either. Just like MTR isn’t going to cop to his chi-squared farce, and Janet S will never accept any answer whatsoever to the questions she spits out regarding Darcy Burner.

    This isn’t about dialogue — it’s about something else . . . which I don’t quite understand.

  124. 161

    LeftTurn spews:

    I repeat – the only votes declared blatantly and undeniably illegal in the last Washington state election were cast by republicans for republicans. That according to a republican judge working in the most conservative district in Washington state. Nuff said.

  125. 162

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    Sam Reed is cleaning up the voting rolls. Is he not doing a good enough job for you DOOFUS?

    Commentby For the Clueless— 6/1/06@ 9:50 pm

    Thats is great, too bad he didnt do it before 2004 but that is another story. When will he finish? What list is he using? How is he checking all the people who moved out of state years ago and may have died in another state? Is he crossing voter registration with other states to make sure there are no duplicate voters? Can you answer these questions for me Clueless? Or is it time to come up with a better system?

  126. 163

    RUFUS Fitzgerald Kennedy spews:

    You know a national ID would be great to use for voter ID. We would know who is legal and who isnt as well. Would solve a lot of problems. The donks would not go for it though. Cost too many votes for their side.

  127. 164

    GORDITOS DE LOS ALBERTO spews:

    re 164: The only solution that would satisfy you Rufus P. Robertson is for Reed to arbitrarily delete all Democrats — like Ohio.

  128. 165

    Puddybud Robert Kennedy Jr. spews:

    Hell, even Rancid ButtPutty’s virgin twenty something sons will probably rather vote Democrat than polish their knobs with Rethuglican playmates. . .

    Commentby Tree Frog Farmer— 6/1/06@ 12:48 pm

    Fogged: You been practicing on the bedroom or bathroom doorknob? Enquiring minds want to know!

  129. 166

    karl spews:

    let me see if I get this right. You democrats are pissed off at alleged fraud in ohio, but dismiss the problems in Washington as minor or trivial.

    You complain about fraud, but when the republicans suggest making the system clean byt forcing reregistration you complain it is disenfranchising people.

    I have yet to see a convincing argument on why trying to fix the system is a bad thing.

  130. 168

    Green Thumb spews:

    So, Karl, are you new to this blog? Then perhaps you might wish to surf the archives. There’ s been lots and lots of pretty detailed discussion about this topic. Personally, I think that some darned convincing arguments have been made, and it does not break at all neatly into Republicans versus Democrats.

    I think you need to decide whether you actually want to listen to these folks are whether, like Rufus, you are here to spread the gospel to the Godless heathens.

  131. 169

    Yo spews:

    “Was the 2004 Washington State governor’s race stolen??
    YES. Without a doubt. Just ask Bill Huennekens (“We shouldn’t have counted those votes…”) and Dean Logan.

  132. 172

    Green Thumb spews:

    YO, I implore you to do the single most important thing you’ve ever done in your life: Please get down on your knees, put out your hands in prayer, and join me in asking our Lord in a sincerely and open-hearted fashion whether it is true that the 2004 governor’s race was “stolen.”

    Are you with me? Let’s put this question to the ultimate test!

  133. 173

    Yo spews:

    Green Thumb, I need to inform you that the person who calls themself “YO” is not the same as my handle, which is “Yo”. The YO person is trying to impersonate me and make you guys think that I’m some foul-mouthed poster who just drives by and says gross things. Hope everyone here has caught that distinction. I’ll remind you as many times as I have to. I am the upper-case Y and lower-case o poster. And I’m not in here too much. But the YO faker is.

    Btw, I answered your question at 172. But you haven’t answered mine at 173. How about reciprocating?

  134. 174

    Green Thumb spews:

    YO, I got an answer. It was the null hypothesis. In other words, God told me that none of the partisans on this blog has a lock on the Truth. No one. Not me, not you, not Rufus, not Clueless, not Goldy. No one.

    Now, if no one has a lock on the Truth, that changes the conversation, don’t it? That means if we’re going to figure out what is the Truth, we’re all going to have to listen more and pontificate less.

    Do you think we can all do that? Or is it easier to ignore God when it is convenient to our political biases?

  135. 175

    Yo spews:

    Green Thumb, you didn’t really read my post at 175, did you? Because you addressed me as YO instead of Yo, as if I’m the foul-mouthed faker that comes in here and impersonates me. In fact, I’m not going to use that handle anymore after today because of the faker, since I would never talk like he does.
    And you didn’t reciprocate directly to answer me as I did you. How about it?

  136. 176

    Yo spews:

    Alright. Well I guess I’m wasting my time waiting for an answer. Green Thumb, you asked me a direct question at 172, and I answered you directly. Then I asked you the same thing, and you have dodged it for some reason. I’m not sure why.

  137. 177

    Yo spews:

    But I’ll just conclude by saying that after all that has come out about the 2004 Gov. election here in WA, (we can all do the math in our heads, which is why Gregoire always loses big in hypothetical matchups for ’08. Everyone else in this state saw what I saw and are anxious to right that wrong), I am very certain that a lot of bad stuff went down at that time and that Gregoire was ‘helped’ by King County Elections. Even KCE will tell you they counted stuff they shouldn’t have. When you factor out all the fraudulently counted and cast ballots in dem-heavy King county, it’s pretty clear what you would have come up with–and it isn’t Gregoire, and everyone knows it. ciao

  138. 178

    Green Thumb spews:

    I think I’ve been pretty clear where I’m at. And you’ve yet to engage my conclusion. So I guess you see this as a game of chicken.

    Good Christians don’t think in stark, white-and-black terms that preclude any opportunities for mutual understanding and joint problem solving. Good Christains recognize that we all bring something to the table, that we all have limited information, that we all harbor bigotries in need to transcendence.

    That’s where I’m at. How about you?

  139. 179

    Yo spews:

    So Green Thumb you’re saying that you ARE a christian, are you? I noticed that you have a hard time saying it directly. But I guess that doesn’t really affect me. Just something for you to ponder on your own.

    To tell you the truth, I don’t even NEED to ask God if the WA election was stolen. Because my entire thoughts on the race are all there for you to read at 179. No more, no less. I’m quite sure she didn’t win. Take it or leave it, if you will.

  140. 180

    Yo spews:

    And actually, G.T., you make an interesting comment about not thinking in black and white. In fact, the Word is pretty black and white about a whole lot of things, and we run into trouble by ignoring all that because it isn’t convenient for us. I’ve spent a whole lot of time realizing in the last couple of years that many of us don’t spend enough effort trying to line up with all the truth in that book. But it’s been a great adventure beginning to go down that path. Lots of rewards doing so. Lots. But I digress way too much. Nobody really wants a big discussion on that here. So I’ll go to bed.

  141. 181

    karl spews:

    Green, I ahve been around here for a while, and so far all i hear is baseless allegations of disengranchisment.

    The simple fact is that voting is a serious issue, and ir purging the rolls and claeing it up would ensure integrity, then i dont see that as disenfranchising anyone who is legally entitled to vote.

    And I have always said so.

    No, I havent posted here lately. Frankly it;s been a bit boring.

    :)

  142. 182

    Misty spews:

    Btw, Green Thumb, aren’t you put off by the constant, extreme stream of profanity that passes through here all the time?

  143. 183

    LeftTurn spews:

    I repeat – the only votes declared blatantly and undeniably illegal in the last Washington state election were cast by republicans for republicans. That according to a republican judge working in the most conservative district in Washington state. Nuff said.

  144. 186

    GBS spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 123:

    However, I do recall criticizing you for “gambling” and not “investing”…and this is way worse!

    What is way worse? I never said I’d make those type of plays, in fact I said they weren’t for me. What I was answering was your broad brushed question of how to make money in oil if the price of oil drops.

    I’m not a downside player, shorts, puts etc. are not my style. Plus I never invest in the options or futures markets for two reason, 1) It’s too speculative for me, 2) I don’t understand the those markets well enough to risk capital there.

    Like I said, I’m an aggressive investor not a gambler. My style of investing is gambling to you. That’s fine. I know what I’m comfortable with, but more importantly what I’m not comfortable with. So I only trust myself with my money. Listen to your broker if that’s who you trust. There’s nothing wrong with that, millions of people do what you do.

    Me personally, I found being responsible for my money is the best route to go.

    Hey, how about our SKX, getting close to a 52 week high this morning? Although it did fall back a bit intraday. MACD has bottomed out and trending up this morning, Money flow is positive again this week, and the volume is increasing. Looks good except the high-low bar graph shows a lot of turnover on the security, big money may be getting out. Next week will be a critical week to watch the direction the security moves. I may jump out early and take a small profit rather risk a bigger profit potential and take a loss on a potential sell off.

  145. 187

    scotto spews:

    This makes me question Sims’s plan for going to all mail-in ballots. Seems like absentee ballots are far more fraud-prone than in-person voting.

  146. 189

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    GBS—
    I was saying I was considering trading puts on some oil & gas stocks—-which is worse than what I accused you of when you said you put all your dough into 1 stock.
    Still haven’t decided what to do….oil is up $2/bbl today.
    May buy some Exxon October $$62.50 puts.

    My broker sold Skecher’s (SKX) today at $27.85.
    I bot it in Dec. 2004 @ $13.02 or something like that….so it’s L-T Capital Gain (15%).
    This is a good year so far.

    I just have a weird feeling that these Oil Stocks may tank short-term.

  147. 190

    GBS spews:

    Mr. Cynical:

    Oh, OK, my bad, I misundstood you. My apologies.

    I’m staying away from the oil stocks. Even it the price of gas/oil stays right where it’s at their earnings will flatten out and the premium built into the price of the oil stocks will tank. If oil drops as some are predicting, then your spot on, they will tank short term.

    I’m hanging with SKX at leat for 1 more week.

    We’ll see how next week shapes up.

    Later,
    GBS

  148. 191

    Misty spews:

    Ken Blackwell had to deal with a ton of democrat vote fraud shenanigans; having to come behind them and undo fraudulent activity that they were trying to set up.

  149. 192

    Misty spews:

    How come John Kerry thinks he lost? Sorry all, but if you’re upset about Ohio–with a 100,000 vote margin—but think absolutely nothing of Washington state ’04, then you don’t look very thoughtful. Since you’ve forgotten, the margin was 129 and the number of illegal votes and fraudulently counted votes far exceeded 129. THAT’S the real shame of ’04. I would like Dems to spread the news about all the garbage that went down from the Democrat-controlled KC Elections office. It was REALLL ugly.

  150. 193

    Anonymous spews:

    Oh yeah, because you can rely on Rolling Stone to provide a non-partisan article. Yeah, right. They are the epitome of the term ‘liberal media’.

    I’m not saying that wasn’t any funny business in the 2004 election; in fact, I’d say it’s fair to say that there’s a lot of shenanigans in *every* election by *both* sides (i don’t trust any politicians of either major party, nor most of the independents either). But how you guys can just blindly trust Rolling Stone of all sources makes me laugh, cringe and throw up all at the same time.

  151. 194

    phuket hotels hyatt gainey ranch spews:

    colonizing?notational victimizes dishonesty skilled.bimonthly:shingles

Kerry Wins!

The folks at SoundPolitics.com made fun of me for my election night lament that “I cannot imagine being convinced that this was a free and fair election.”

First of all, considering our national electoral catastrophe, I believe we all deserve a little time off to sit shiva for our democracy. Second, considering our nation’s documented history of voter intimidation and electoral fraud, I don’t believe my lament was all that nutty. (They called me “aluminum hat boy.”)

Remember, you’re not paranoid if everybody really is against you.

And so I point you to a piece by investigative reporter Greg Palast, a contributing editor to Harper’s magazine: “Kerry Won…

Palast documents what I’ve been privately ranting about to family, friends and complete strangers the past couple days, that the gap between Ohio’s exit polls and the votes tallied was too large to be explained by survey errors. 53% of Ohio women and 51% of men thought they had voted for Kerry. And yet Bush managed to win 51% to 49%.

How is this possible? As Palast explains, thousands of ballots cast simply were not recorded. And the majority of these came from African Americans.

Scary. Depressing. But not surprising.

Comments

  1. 195

    Bennington spews:

    Goldy–I assure you, you’re not nutty. All you need is electronic voting without a paper trail. I’m listening to Science Friday right now and the discrepancy in Ohio is one of the topics. To me one clue is that I heard a new report in which a voter in Ohio was interviewed and she stood in line nine hours to vote!!! NINE HOURS–what the heck–this has to point to probability that there was something wrong here.

    I sent a letter to the Washington Secretary of State after the 2000 election suggesting that all ballots need to be randomly numbered and be in duplicate. Then each county’s ballots need to be posted on the internet in random number sequence that shows the vote on each ballot. This way every voter could check to see that their vote was counted, and counted correctly, and if it wasn’t they can take their duplicate to their courthouse and find out why. The Secretary of State office gave me this bogus reason why this could not be done–“you ballot would no longer be secret”–I tried to explain to them that the only person that would know who cast the numbered ballot would be the voter, but I got nowhere. I have voted since I was 21 (now you know how old I am–you had to be 21 to vote when I first registered) and after the ballot left my hands I have no idea if any of them were ever counted.

  2. 196

    Goldy spews:

    Bennington, yours is a an interesting idea, but I have a pretty weird one to safeguard a free and fair election. We need to move exclusively to internet voting. But the software must be open source.

    See, the problem with all these voting machines, even the optical scanners and punch card readers, is that they are proprietary — sold by for profit enterprises — and thus contain proprietary software. If you move to internet voting, you eliminate the proprietary machines. And the software that runs the internet voting system… is controlled by an open source software foundation.

    It would be very hard to fix an election when the software and the data used to program it are all freely available for download for anybody to inspect. And open source software is always the most secure because you have thousands of people looking for weaknesses all the time, and tweaking it to make it better.

    Imagine an Ohio with open source software… how many computer geeks would be hacking away right now looking for how they stole the election.

    Just a thought.

  3. 197

    Bennington spews:

    Goldy–yes, but what about the vast number of US citizens that are not computer savvy, and there are tons of ‘em–especially senior citizens, and they turn out to vote the most. I believe that computer voting is definitely the wave of the future, but until that time you have to allow for various ballot forms. Besides how would you know that your ballot had been counted if you vote by computer? I like Oregon’s way of voting by mail except for one thing, I don’t trust the managers of the snail mail system. I called a lot of absentee voters right before election day to remind them to post mark their ballot by 2 November, and many of them said, “I’m returning my ballot in person,” so I guess I’m not the only person in CONUS that has misgivings about our postal system. Heck, look at all those thousands of people that didn’t get their absentee ballot through the mail.

    I’d also do one more thing to change national election day–I’d make it a holiday, and if you could prove that you voted you’d get paid time and a half–if you don’t vote you’d just get paid straight time. For people that have jobs that don’t allow a day off you’d get paid time and a half and your regular daily wage which would equal double time and a half. I wouldn’t change the day of the week the elections are held–because if it were on a Monday or a Friday too many people would be tempted to take the three day weekend and skip the voting.

  4. 198

    Goldy spews:

    Internet voting doesn’t mean you don’t have polling places… you’ll need them for those who don’t have internet access. And these polling places would have terminals with touchscreens. It’s just that none of the hardware would be proprietary, and all the software would be open source.

    In the end, it’s the open source software that is the most important part of the equation, whether it is internet voting, or tabulating mail-in ballots.

    As to election day a holiday… well, I just think we should the early voting we’ve seen in some states. The polling places should open on Sunday morning, and close on Tuesday night at 9PM Eastern, nationwide.

  5. 199

    Jon spews:

    Sorry, Goldy, gotta disagree with you on this one. Palast took silvers of data and tried to extrapolate (wrongly) the results. My apologies for quoting the following at length (the whole post is at http://www.captainsquartersblo.....003012.php). I would be curious to hear your reasoned comments! (I may disgree with you from time to time, but you always make good arguements.)

    “First, even supposing the exit-poll numbers are what Palast claims (and they’re not), which sample provides the better accuracy: interviews with 1,000 voters at a few random precincts — likely all in accessible urban areas — or 6,000,000 ballots? Based on the larger sample, one would expect the questionable 450,000 ballots to break along the lines of the 6,000,000. Kerry would have to win 293,000 to 157,000, almost a 2-1 margin. Even based on the exit polling, where Kerry was up by four or five points, you’d expect the remainder to split 237K-213K, only taking 24,000 off of Bush’s lead.”

    Further:

    “…Palast is being intellectually dishonest. He doesn’t care about spoilage, or else he’d be checking Wisconsin, where pre-election polling put Bush ahead, or Iowa, or even Pennsylvania, where the margin of votes putting Kerry up on Bush was even smaller than Ohio (127,000 votes). He’s using statistically suspect exit polling and intellectually bankrupt arguments about mishandled ballots because his candidate lost.”

  6. 201

    Damnaged spews:

    I completly agree with Goldy (gasp) on the comment about open source electronis voting software. What I find sickening is that we can put remote control video cameras on wheels on Mars…but not devise something to accurately count 1 to 1!

    But i’mnot supprosed, considering we suppress any development that goes against the incumbants. I.E., hydrogen fuel cells. Of course, after two hundred years, how are we expected to count correctly when were too busy forcing other countries do it our way?