It’s not their money

What the P-I said:

If a government utility discovers it has been underbilling a resident for electricity, the homeowner can expect to pay, perhaps with a bit of extra time. Everyone sympathizes with the homeowner, but no one expects the government to give away something valuable without payment.

The state constitution forbids it, in fact.

A Building Industry Association of Washington program apparently has been receiving state overpayments of millions of dollars. The state’s course should be to get the money back.

Due to a programming error, the BIAW has been reaping retro-rebate overpayments since 1994, and then using the money to back right-wing causes and candidates.  And now they argue they should be allowed to keep most of those overpayments because, you know, it wasn’t their fault.

Well fuck that.

BIAW and other retro programs should pay back the entire amount—the first few years worth immediately, and then the remainder deducted from future retro payments over a reasonable term… say, the next five years.  This isn’t their money, and they have no right to keep.

Which of course raises a broader issue:  this isn’t their money.  And particularly now, during this economic crisis, it is time for the legislature to consider reforms that put more of the money back into the pockets of workers and small business owners, where it belongs, rather than into the coffers of partisan political organizations like BIAW.

Comments

  1. 1

    Oplo spews:

    BIAW believes in paying back money that is owed. Serioiusly. From BIAW’s own site:

    Do You Build Homes in Clark County? If you have built a home in Clark county between 2002 and 2007 you may have been overcharged for your building permit and due a refund from the County. If you believe Clark County overcharged for your building permit, call attorney John Groen at 425-453-6206.

  2. 2

    Richard Pope spews:

    It looks like the undeserving jerks at BIAW may very well be correct when they say the state can only go back three years. RCW 51.16.190 gives the state only three years to assess an employer for underpayment of Labor and Industries premiums from the time they were due. Presumably, it should apply equally to the state trying to collect excessive refunds under the retrospective refund program. I would assume that any refund overpayment amounts paid by the state within the last three years could be recovered under this statute of limitations.

    RCW 51.16.190
    Limitation on collection actions.

    (1) “Action” means, but is not limited to, a notice of assessment pursuant to RCW 51.48.120, an action at law pursuant to RCW 51.16.150, or any other administrative or civil process authorized by this title for the determination of liability for premiums, assessments, penalties, contributions, or other sums, or the collection of premiums, assessments, penalties, contributions, or other sums.

    (2) Any action to collect any delinquent premium, assessment, contribution, penalty, or other sum due to the department from any employer subject to this title shall be brought within three years of the date any such sum became due.

    (3) In case of a false or fraudulent report with intent to evade premiums, assessments, contributions, penalties, interest, or other sums, or in the event of a failure to file a report, action may be begun at any time.

    (4) Any claim for refund or adjustment by an employer of any premium, assessment, contribution, penalty, or other sum collected by the department shall be made in writing to the department within three years of the date the sum became due.

  3. 3

    rhp6033 spews:

    Richard Pope @ 2: I’m not sure of the mechanism by which an organization signs up to be an insurer under the L&I program, but does the paperwork constitute a written contract? If so, wouldn’t the terms of that contract prevail over the generic statute of limitations, if it allowed for a longer period of time?

  4. 4

    Richard Pope spews:

    rhp6033 @ 3

    I think that RCW 51.16.190 is a specific statute of limitations concerning Labor & Industries premiums and any other monies that may become due under Title 51 RCW, relating to Industrial Insurance. This specific three year statute of limitations would prevail over general statutes of limitations, such as RCW 4.16.040 which provides a six year statute of limitations on written contracts and all accounts receivable (regardless of whether there is a written contract for those).

    Of course, if a retrospective rating organization (which represents the various employers who sign up for it) such as the BIAW signed a written contract with Labor & Industries which provided for a different limitations period, than the three year period in RCW 51.16.190, then the terms of the contract might prevail over the statutory period.

  5. 5

    Colonel Jocko 'Biff' O'Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:

    BIAW = Gummint Freeloaders

    Who’s pink Cadillac they been ridin’ ’round in?

  6. 6

    Colonel Jocko 'Biff' O'Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:

    If you work for a commission, you figure your paycheck to the penny. I find it hard to believe that they did not know of the overpayments.

    If they knew (which would not be hard to prove), then they are guilty of fraud.

    That’s a crime. Is it actionable in your opinion, Richard Pope or Roger Rabbit?

  7. 7

    diamondshards spews:

    “it is time for the legislature to consider reforms that put more of the money back into the pockets of workers and small business owners, where it belongs, rather than into the coffers of partisan political organizations like BIAW.”

    Did you mean BIAW or ACORN? What’s the difference? You libs are eager to pad the pockets of your own left-wingnut partisan organizations THROUGH PARTISAN LEGISLATION yet you get your panties in a bunch over this.

    Get a grip…….

  8. 8

    GoldyIsHateful spews:

    Pope is correct.
    The L&I orders on closed Retro Years are final and BINDING. Goldstein is drinking Union Kool-Aid as the Retro money comes entirely out of the Accident Fund which is 100% funded by employers. Employers voluntarily join Retro Groups. There are 60 or so to choose from.

  9. 9

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    No shit it’s not their money.
     
    If it was, would the democrats be loading up the stimulus bill with favors for their political contributors?
     
    It’s good to see obama had that news conference where he said Caterpillar’s chief executive has told him the company will rehire some laid-off workers if the stimulus bill passes.
     
    Of course, with all the work projects the government will need the help of the lovely machines caterpillar makes. Caterpillar will profit selling their product to the government.
     
    Who does caterpillar donate to?
     
    Who is on the board of obama’s new economic advisory board, Jim Owens, Chairman and CEO, Caterpillar Inc.
    I wonder if all those left-wingnuts that protested caterpillar for killing rachael corrine will now become supporters of caterpillar, because they made the correct political contribution.
     
    On the above link… “President Barack Obama has named Jeffrey Immelt, CEO of NBC Universal parent GE, to his new economic advisory board.” Also… “In 2007, Jeffrey R. Immelt raked in $19,591,580 in total compensation according to the SEC”
     
    Guess obama found a ceo that raked in the dough that he approves of.
     
    But why stop now…
     
    Most of America’s largest publicly traded corporations — including several that are receiving billions of dollars from U.S. taxpayers to finance their recovery — have set up offshore operations that could help them avoid paying U.S. taxes on their profits, a government study released yesterday found.

    Several of the companies are household names, including Pepsi, Exxon, Dell and Dow Chemical. In the list of 100 companies that GAO studied were 63 with major federal contracts, including Caterpillar, BearingPoint, Boeing, Merck & Co. and Kraft Foods.

     
    Of course obama badmouthed corporations that dodged taxes with offshore accounts, obviously he only meant those that didn’t contribute to him.

  10. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @2 BIAW also could argue equitable estoppel, although there are more elements to be met where the defendant is a governmental entity. See Kramarevcky v. DSHS, 122 Wn.2d 138 (1993). However, if BIAW could prove detrimental reliance, they might get out of any repayment whatsoever. This case is different from a tax underpayment due to a calculation error because L & I refunded money to BIAW, who then spent the money in the belief that L & I wouldn’t ask for it back.

  11. 12

    Colonel Jocko 'Biff' O'Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:

    re 9: Gee! It must be tough on you having to monitor such a strict moral code for Democrats to live up to.

    Maybe you could get Bill Kristol, Tom DeLay, and Jack Abramoff to help you out?

  12. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 No, the statute trumps the contract. The applicable legal rule holds that a contracting officer or agency lacks authority to bind the government to a contract that doesn’t conform to statutory requirements, therefore such a contract is ultra vires and accordingly either void or unenforceable.

  13. 14

    Particle Man spews:

    The legal debate over what the state has the right to demand back from BIAW (and others)is interesting, though not the only thing to consider.
    This is a social test of sorts for the BIAW. In short, is the BIAW an ethical entity and are its member contractors ethical people?

    If the answer is yes then they should be initiating dialog with the state in order to arrange for the repayment of funds tendered in error.
    If they are not ethical businesses and people then they will seek to litigate stall and evade efforts to recover the citizens lost money.

    Rather than seeing a fish on the contractors ad or truck, I for one would much rather know who stepped up and paid this money back without a fight.

  14. 15

    ArtFart spews:

    To my disappointment, I can’t help but wonder if Caterpillar’s rethinking of some of their layoffs comes from some sort of assurance from the new administration that there will be no significant change in our policy with respect to Israel. Cat sells a lot of bulldozers to Israel that get used to smash houses in Palestinian territory, sometimes with Palestinians actually in them.

  15. 17

    rhp6033 spews:

    RR @ 13: Yes, but when a taxpayer negotiates with the IRS, the IRS requires them to sign an agreement extending the time period by which the IRS can collect the debt.

    So can’t a private party always contract with the government to give the government MORE than the statute allows – in this case, a longer statute of limitations (assuming the private party has an interest or benefit in doing so)?

  16. 19

    Republican Goat Fuckers spews:

    Troll:

    You forgot your goat after the party last night. Yes, I know he is dead. But he was dead when you brought him to the party.

  17. 20

    correctnotright spews:

    @9 Stamm the idiot is back – hey stamm , explain why the GOP and bush never outlawed or campaigned against off-shore fake corporations to shelter taxes.

    uhh, you can’t can you…. so quit bad-mouthing democrats who wil try to push that legislation through. In the meanttime, we are busy trying to clean up the messes left behind by the incompetent bush – things like the largest deficit in history PLUS the worst economy since the great depression.

    And what is the republican plan to fix the economy…ooops, they don’t have one, and the one pathetic attempt they did have…well they RAISED taxes by accident. What incompetents!

  18. 21

    correctnotright spews:

    @14:
    Asking the BIAW to be ethical is like asking a fish to breath air – ain’t gonna happen.

    They are already in trouble for illegal campaign contributions – to Rossi and our attorney general, McKenna.

  19. 22

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @17 A statute of limitations can be waived by a party benefitting from it. For example, a tax collector may offer a tax debtor a payment schedule extending beyond the period of limitations conditioned on the debtor waiving the statute of limitations. The state routinely demands such waivers when working out repayment plans for child support debts. So the answer to your question is yes, a private party can agree to give the government more time to collect a debt owed to the government. Such concessions usually are in exchange for easier repayment terms.

  20. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @21 Now that’s an interesting point — shouldn’t McKenna recuse himself and hire a special counsel to go after BIAW?

  21. 25

    Richard Pope spews:

    GoldyIs(NOT)Hateful @ 8

    You sound a lot like BIAW’s point man par excellence, Mr. Cynical.

    But you may have an additional angle here. You talk about “L&I Orders” and “final”.

    If Labor & Industries has actually issued ORDERS in these cases, which purport to finalize out L&I premium matters for a given period, then there might only be 60 days to ask for reconsideration from L&I or to request a hearing before the Board of Industrial Insurance Appeals. And the right to reconsideration or hearing might only apply to the other side, with L&I being stuck with the results of its ORDERS.

    I know L&I premium assessment processes are quite different than other state taxing authorities. If you don’t pay your L&I premiums, I think that L&I can issue an ORDER (similar to those in worker compensation cases), which assesses your liability. In that case, you have only 60 days to request either reconsideration or a hearing.

    In any event, I don’t see the State being able to go back more than three years in any event, and maybe not being able to go back at all if there are final “ORDERS”.

  22. 26

    mitch seaman spews:

    @18, while retro refunds may be paid entirely out of the accident fund, the size of an employer or group’s refund is based not just on contributions to the accident fund but also on constributions to the medical aid fund, half of which is funded by workers. Refunds then go straight to the employer or group, and the worker doesn’t get a penny.

    What the worker gets in return is “aggressive claims management” (BIAW’s own words) and various early return-to-work programs. While these aren’t necessarily all bad, in the hands of the wrong employer or retro group, they can and often do negatively impact a worker’s long term recovery from serious injury.

  23. 28

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    12. Colonel Jocko ‘Biff’ O’Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:
    re 9: Gee! It must be tough on you having to monitor such a strict moral code for Democrats to live up to.

     
    So it doesn’t bother you that “change & hope” turned out to be “more of the same.”
     
    Of course not, you’re a democrat. To be a democrat one must believe in a double standard.

  24. 29

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    15. ArtFart spews:
    To my disappointment, I can’t help but wonder if Caterpillar’s rethinking of some of their layoffs comes from some sort of assurance from the new administration that there will be no significant change in our policy with respect to Israel.

     
    If joe blow advertises on teev and what he says is a lie, that’s a crime.
     
    Obama going on television and preaching change and then doing the same isn’t.
     
    At least only democrats have proven themselves to be ignorant enough to believe “CHANGE” meant something besides a name change on white house letterhead.
      
    The good part is that now democrats won’t care about the plight of the palestinians and protest in the street with a democrat in the white house.

  25. 30

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    20. correctnotright spews:
    @9 Stamm the idiot is back – hey stamm , explain why the GOP and bush never outlawed or campaigned against off-shore fake corporations to shelter taxes.

     
    They didn’t want to piss off democrat supporters.
     

    so quit bad-mouthing democrats who wil try to push that legislation through

     
    You mean the democrats that haven’t even read the bill they voted on?
    Fools that take out pay-day-cash-advances without reading the whole agreement are ignorant stupid shits that deserve what they get. Unfortunately, when the democrats do it America has to pay the price.

  26. 31

    The TRuth spews:

    Time to cut the crap reporting on meaningless local news and get to what matters to us.
    Not even a note on obama’s package that never hit the internet like he promised us (just words, just words) the Demons had to vote on it without reading it. One reason they said no copy’s as the lobbyists have them all.
    What a !@#$%^ up dumb idiot you idiots voted for cause he was half white you fools.
    You guys play tough about social issues and play dumb about ethics. I can’t even hire the kid next door to mow my lawn as obama lied again about Caterpillar hiring.

  27. 32

    Colonel Jocko 'Biff' O'Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:

    re 28: I don’t accept your labels or your agenda.

    Brick Wall. Can’t hear ya!

  28. 33

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    32. Colonel Jocko ‘Biff’ O’Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:
    Brick Wall. Can’t hear ya!

     
    But you keep replying with your attempt at insulting me.
     
    Must be a government built brick wall… lots of cracks in it.

  29. 34

    Colonel Jocko 'Biff' O'Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:

    Ultimatey, what really matters is who won. From Sun Tzu to Marty Engels, the only thing that truly matters is who prevails in the end.

    And, oh, by the way: We WON!

    Republicans have been rightly re-labeled as the party of Stupid and Failure. The only reason Republican congressmen are so against this recovery bill is that they come from such retrograde districts that they wil be out-stupided by some other cretinous conservative when they come up for election.

    How would you like having to worry about not appearing dopey enough to win in your district? That’s a problem many Republican congressmen face.

  30. 36

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    34. Colonel Jocko ‘Biff’ O’Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:
    Ultimatey, what really matters is who won.

     
    You’re right, the democrats won.
     
    America lost.

  31. 37

    Marvin Stamn spews:

  32. 38

    correctnotright spews:

    Hey idiot Stamm:
    Another one of your heroes turns out to be a crook, Judd Gregg.

    How does it feel to be part of the most corrupt political party in history?

    Oh, and your stupid little example above – the latest polls show that 70% are in favor of the stimulus and the house republicans favorability:

    Boehner 18%
    Pelosi: 42%

    So much for the “calls and e-mails” from a small minority of dimwitted fools who would rather see the economy crash in flames than fix the last 8 years of incompetence.

    Yup – you have no clue about reality, do you? Keep jammering with your pathetic slop – you just show how out of touch and brain dead you really are.

  33. 40

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    38. correctnotright spews:
    How does it feel to be part of the most corrupt political party in history?

     
    Just another part of the CHANGE in electing obama.
     
    Remember back when bush was picking people, the left complained they were too right-wing.
     
    Obama is still trying to find someone that isn’t a tax cheat or under federal investigation so the republicans can complain the pick is too left-wing.
     
    By the way, not one dollar of my $$ has been voluntarily given to any political party. The only way a politician can get any of my $ is to tax it away from me.

  34. 41

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    39. Colonel Jocko ‘Biff’ O’Hanrahanrahan (Ret.) spews:
    re 36: You mean ‘Amerika’

     
    For a brick wall you sure are acting like a puppet.

  35. 42

    Steve spews:

    Bye the bye, Republicans lost, America won. That leaves Marvin to do what wing-nuts do best – incessant whining.

  36. 43

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    Hey stevie…
     
    Did you see those bill maher quotes I posted yesterday?
     
    Have you contacted bill about his views yet or are you just going to attack me for educating you on how your fellow obama voters feel about your religion?

  37. 44

    Steve spews:

    I wonder if Marvin only finds the left disturbing. What if hate were shown to come from the right? A killer rage. Would that be OK with him? Hmmm.

  38. 45

    Steve spews:

    From the manifesto of one of Marvin’s heroes, James Adkisson:

    “Know this if nothing else: This was a hate crime. I hate the damn left-wing liberals. There is a vast left-wing conspiracy in this country & these liberals are working together to attack every decent & honorable institution in the nation, trying to turn this country into a communist state. Shame on them….

    “This was a symbolic killing. Who I wanted to kill was every Democrat in the Senate & House, the 100 people in Bernard Goldberg’s book. I’d like to kill everyone in the mainstream media. But I know those people were inaccessible to me. I couldn’t get to the generals & high ranking officers of the Marxist movement so I went after the foot soldiers, the chickenshit liberals that vote in these traitorous people. Someone had to get the ball rolling. I volunteered. I hope others do the same. It’s the only way we can rid America of this cancerous pestilence.”

    “I thought I’d do something good for this Country Kill Democrats til the cops kill me….Liberals are a pest like termites. Millions of them Each little bite contributes to the downfall of this great nation. The only way we can rid ourselves of this evil is to kill them in the streets. Kill them where they gather. I’d like to encourage other like minded people to do what I’ve done. If life aint worth living anymore don’t just kill yourself. do something for your Country before you go. Go Kill Liberals.”

    He killed Americans in their church and feels real good about it. You’ve got the hate going, Marvin. Hmm, I bet that you’re hankering to kill some Americans too.

  39. 46

    Steve spews:

    @43 “attack me for educating you”

    Your own education can be found @45. Are you capable of killing unarmed people in their church for doing nothing more than voting for a Democrat?

  40. 47

    Steve spews:

    Would you like to take a crack at me, Marvin? I voted for Obama. Would you like to kill me for casting that vote?

  41. 48

    Mike spews:

    @40 – The difference is that the cheaters don’t end up working for Obama. The Bush administration didn’t have any trouble hiring criminals.

  42. 49

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    46. Steve spews:
    Your own education can be found @45. Are you capable of killing unarmed people in their church

     
    You mean they perform abortions at churches?
     
    oops, you ignore the killing of children when you call it abortion.

  43. 51

    YLB spews:

    not one dollar of my $$ has been voluntarily given to any political party.

    If your trolling is not for pay, then it would likely count as an in-kind donation to the Republican party.

    But it probably is.. I can’t imagine anyone sane posting your crap unless it’s for pay.

  44. 52

    YLB spews:

    The logical result of dittoheading is an Adkission.

    And that’s where Stamn is heading whether he likes it or not.

    After all, he admitted in these comment threads that he hates Dems. And for utterly illogical reasons.

    Pretty critical first step.

  45. 53

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    47. Steve spews:
    Would you like to take a crack at me, Marvin? I voted for Obama. Would you like to kill me for casting that vote?

     
    Hell no!!!
      
    I want you to live long enough to feel the pain of your vote for obama.
     
    Not just watching your children struggle in life paying taxes to pay off obama’s stimulus bill…
     
    I also want you to feel the effects of nationalized healthcare. The kind of healthcare where the government has decided that you are too old to be worth the time and $$ to get treatment.
     
    Here’s a link about your future healthcare. Read it and enjoy.

  46. 54

    YLB spews:

    Not just watching your children struggle in life paying taxes to pay off obama’s stimulus bill..

    If Obama’s plan pays off, then we’ll have plenty of economic growth to pay off the stimulus plan investment

    and hopefully enough left over to make a dent in Bush’s Iraq folly and his stupid hands-off policies towards the financial markets.

  47. 55

    YLB spews:

    Here’s a link about your future healthcare. Read it and enjoy.

    An “opinion” penned by a hack at the neo-con stink tank, the Hudson Institute.

    Ignored.

  48. 56

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    50. Steve spews:
    Maybe Marvin just wants to kill people of color, like this wing-nut:

     
    The democrat party has a history of killing black people that republicans could ever achieve.
     
    I’m sure you heard how unionized teachers in chicago treat those black kids haven’t you?
    The 2 Investigators found reports of students beaten with broomsticks, whipped with belts, yard sticks, struck with staplers, choked, stomped on and pushed down stairs.
    Good thing obama and CHANGE happened. The CEO of chicago public schools was picked by obama to the US secretary of education. Now poor minority school children across the nation should be scared, just like thos kids in chicago.
     
    Hell… even the rich white liberals in hollywood would rather fly half-way across the globe (global warming be damned) to darfur. If thy really wanted to help, a 20 mile drive south from their mansions in beverly hills is compton. Why do they help blacks in africa but not in compton, besides for the fact it’s not in vogue to be seen helping blacks in america.
     
    Face it, what the democrats have perpetrated upon blacks in the history of the united states is horrendous.

  49. 57

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Richard Pope
    @8 wasn’t me….but it sounds reasonable re: final orders. L&I has made errors in the past that hurt Retro Groups but weren’t uncovered for months or years…but the final & binding orders stood. It’s also true that Retro is 100% related to Accident Fund…so workers are impacted zero by this if that’s the case as the Accident Fund is 100% Employer funded.

  50. 58

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    54. YLB spews:
    If Obama’s plan pays off

      
    If.
     
    With that amount of money I would hope for better results than if.
     
    Maybe if they bought a couple million dollars worth of lottery tickets that might pay off too.

  51. 59

    Steve spews:

    How about you, Cynical? What do you think of that wing-nut’s manifesto? Does it inspire you to want to kill a few libs yourself?

  52. 60

    Steve spews:

    Marvin just can’t bring himself to denounce a wing-nut, not even one who commits murder. No suprise, really. He never denounced Republican pedos and pervs either.

  53. 61

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    55. YLB spews:
    An “opinion”

     
    Since we are talking about the future, there is no such things as facts yet. It’s a fact that you were living at 4:25 pm, it’s not yet a fact you were living at 1:30 on 2/16/09. In my OPINION, you probably will be living, but it’s not yet a fact.
     
    Did you read the parts of the bill the “hack” quoted?
     
    Did you interpret the words differently than the “hack?”
     
    Have you read daschle’s book yet?

  54. 62

    Steve spews:

    Say, Marvin, while Cynical’s here how about you telling him what you think of his worshipping that boogyman in the sky. Show him some of that hate you have for Christians. I bet he’ll get a kick out of you hating on his faith.

    Watch out, Cynical. That Marvin’s so stupid he just might shoot up your church by mistake.

  55. 64

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    60. Steve spews:
    Marvin just can’t bring himself to denounce a wing-nut, not even one who commits murder.

     
    Is it my job to denounce the actions of someone I never met?
     
    If someone even interferes with someone’s life based on skin color, sex, religion, etc. it is wrong.
     
    I wouldn’t be offended if luke was shot dead by the police.
     
    Say, have you ever denounced the actions of robert byrd? You know, you don’t become a grand kleage just by showing up to the meetings.

  56. 65

    Steve spews:

    This wing-nut commenter has the mojo going.

    http://recoveringliberal.com/?p=754

    “Fuck off and die you liberal asshole. Now I know the name of one more enemy of the people, Phil Ochs. I hope he’s already dead. I won’t bother to try reason with you since a liberal cannot be reasoned with. The point of a gun is the only thing a liberal will ever understand.”

  57. 66

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    62. Steve spews:
    Say, Marvin, while Cynical’s here how about you telling him what you think of his worshipping that boogyman in the sky. Show him some of that hate you have for Christians. I bet he’ll get a kick out of you hating on his faith.

     
    Cynical, stevie is upset because I quoted obama supporter bill maher and his views about religion.
     
    When I quoted biden and his first clean/smart/articulate black man stevie also got upset.
     
    stevie never grasped the concept that I was using the quotes of his fellow obama supporters. stevie childishly believes those words were mine.
     
    Priceless.

  58. 67

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    65. Steve spews:
    This wing-nut commenter has the mojo going.

     
    You’re going to lose this game. We just had 8 years of your fellow obama supporters wanting republicans and bush dead.
     
    Lets start right here at horses ass.
     
    Do you condone or denounce the words of byebye goober?
     
    Do you condone or denounce the racist views of headless lucy.

  59. 70

    Steve spews:

    @66 Nice spin attempt, but no dice. You have made hateful remarks about Christians here many times. Come on, Marvin, spew some of that Christian hate of yours for Cynical’s reading pleasure.

  60. 71

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    68. Steve spews:
    Here, let’s see if you can denounce this:

     
    Are you really this obtuse?

    How many times do I have to say that’s wrong and if I was king, I would allow the fathers of the children some private times with the creeps.
     
    Please, read this over 10 times and then write it out by hand so you can remember what I said.
     
    Look, a fun kill bush web game. You going to speak out against it or are you a hypocrite?
    http://www.pictogame.com/play/....._kill-bush
     
    And I noticed the fact that obama’s pick for secretary of education turned a blind eye to chicago school children didn’t bother you enough to say anything.

  61. 73

    Steve spews:

    @67 “Do you condone or denounce the words of”

    It was only yesterday that, after reading your hateful remarks, I invited anybody, left or right, to try spewing that kind of hate one more time so that I could take them on, standing side by side with Puddy. You read it. You choose to forget so you can save face today with Cynical. You hate Christians. You hate Cynical and Puddy for their faith. Just fucking admit it, asswipe, so we can move on.

  62. 75

    Steve spews:

    @72 From the link:

    “dismissed a complaint against a rock music group who used lyrics in one of their recordings that urged listeners to “kill the Christian.”

    Consider it denounced and condemned, both the ruling and the so-called music.

  63. 77

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    73. Steve spews:
    You hate Christians. You hate Cynical and Puddy for their faith. Just fucking admit it, asswipe, so we can move on.

     
    Not my words.
     
    I’m quoting your fellow obama voters.
     
    Sucks for you that so many of the people that share your political beliefs believe you have a “neurological disorder.”

  64. 79

    Steve spews:

    @77 Just more spin for Cynical’s sake. Are you afraid he’s going to turn on you? Puddy too? You hate Christians. Admit it.

  65. 80

    Steve spews:

    @78 From the site you linked to:

    “I was praying to God that He direct me,” the proselytizing assassin Jeanne Assam confessed to reporters today. “God made me strong.”

    And your point was what? Hmm, you must be running out of links.

    Admit it, Marvin, you hate Christians.

  66. 81

    Steve spews:

    Put it here in writing that you have the utmost respect for both Christians and their faith and tell us why you have this respect.

  67. 82

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    79. Steve spews:
    @77 Just more spin for Cynical’s sake. Are you afraid he’s going to turn on you? Puddy too? You hate Christians. Admit it.

     
    Turn on me for quoting the views of liberals? It’s not as if those are my words. Unlike you, Puddy & Cynical understand what quoting liberals mean. They have to deal with the hate on a 24/7 basis from people of your political persuasion.
     
    Do you think Puddy thought I was a racist because I quoted biden being impressed he finally met a smart & clean african american? If puddy was offended, I’ll apologize to him.
    If Cynical is offended by my quoting of liberals, I’ll apologize to him.
     
    You on the other hand, it’s your fellow obama supporters, deal with it. Maybe ask yourself why you associate with people that believe you have a “neurological disorder” and believe in fairy tales.
     
    Beside, why would I hate christians? What have they ever done to me?

  68. 83

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    stevie…
     
    Have you had the chance to watch “Friends of God” by alexandra pelosi?
     
    I wonder if alexandra is liberal or conservative.

  69. 84

    Steve spews:

    @82 “quoting the views of liberals”

    Still spinning? Good grief. Just take ownership of your words, apologize to Cynical, Puddy and myself if you can, and we’ll move on.

    @83 “Have you had the chance to watch”

    No, so I have no comment. However, if you’re thinking that I’d defend any liberal for spewing hate towards Christians, you’re wrong. That said, Christians, the right, the left, myself – all can be subject to valid criticism. Nothing wrong with that. But you spewed hate. Admit it, apologize if you’re sincere, and then we’ll move on.

  70. 85

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    84. Steve spews:
    Still spinning? Good grief. Just take ownership of your words, apologize to Cynical, Puddy and myself if you can, and we’ll move on.

     
    Are you denying bill mahr said those words?

  71. 86

    YLB spews:

    Stamn is curiously quiet about Adkisson even though he’d agree with at least eighty percent of what that freak wrote in his suicide note.

    It was mostly dittohead crap we’ve read in these comment threads many many times.

    All the insane wingers bring their madness here. Stamn is one of them.

  72. 87

    Steve spews:

    @86 In the realm of the stupid, Stamn stands out from the crowd. And, of course, you’re right. He said nothing of Adkisson. He only did his usual dance. “Dems do it too!” Oh yeah? Where’s the dead Republicans?

    Most hate I see on the left is really just a reaction to the years of hate spewed by the right. It’s schoolyard stuff. They start it by poking a stick in your eye, you finish it by beating the crap out of them, they run and whine to the teacher about how you beat them up.

  73. 88

    delbert spews:

    I’ll have to remember this quote the next time the Legislature poops out a budget…

    “It’s not their money”
    D. Goldstein

  74. 89

    Astonished spews:

    What is this stamn and why hasn’t somebody sprayed for it?

    Letting it whine itself to death is annoying.