It’s all up to King (and maybe the courts)

Spokane County just reported: Gregoire +8, Rossi +15, meaning Rossi has gained 8 votes on the hand recount thus far, bringing his margin up to a whopping 50 votes.

The Snark may not like my math, but if you take the ratio of new votes to vote totals statewide thus far, and extrapolate that to the vote totals in King County after the machine recount, we would expect to see Gregoire +327 to Rossi +196 in the hand count… without the 723 perfectly-legal-but-inexplicably-excluded ballots.

So there.

That’s all from me for a few hours.


  1. 1

    DavidH spews:

    from the PI:
    “Specifically, Republicans were granted a temporary restraining order to stop election workers from taking the newly discovered ballots out of their outer envelopes, which bear the voter’s signature.”

    so, does that mean that this ruling is less than what it has been reported to be (I hope)? A temporary restraining order doesn’t sound like a ruling against never counting the votes.

  2. 2

    DavidH spews:

    It almost sounds like the judge just made a pass to the Supreme Court, rather than take the heat herself.

  3. 3

    Josef spews:

    Who knows?

    But King County already did a partial manual count before the Dem-funded manual recount…

  4. 5

    Sandra Morrison spews:

    Apparently, Tom, you didn’t hear that an appeal was immediately filed with the state Supreme Court. They’ll take up the case next week. And hopefully they will overturn this blatantly stupid decision.

  5. 6

    Jim King spews:

    Sandra- the Democrats have said they will file an appeal, but I do not believe it has been filed yet. They cannot file until they have their briefs ready, etc. And they can’t just pull down boilerplate language.

    The Dems and King County were caught by surprise on this. They’ll most likely spend the weekend preparing, and file Monday morning.

    Given that it took the Court until the eighth business day after the Dems original suit was filed to issue an order, and with the holidays approaching, I’m not sure they can get a hearing this coming week. Possibly Monday the 27th?

  6. 7

    Brian Moran spews:

    Uhh, I have a sick feeling in my stomach. How could the judge rule against counting those votes, someone needs to explain it in legalese to me.

  7. 8

    Andy spews:

    I don’t think a TRO means all that much pending a full hearing with both sides able to state their case. Had the judge issued a preliminary injunction preventing the counting of the votes it would be more devastating to the dems. Isn’t one of the 723 the county party chairman’s votes?

  8. 9

    Sandra Morrison spews:

    The news media reported that an appeal had been filed. Well, we all know they don’t always get it right.

    Andy – yes, one of the votes is from King County Councilman Larry Phillips, who is the council Chair (not the party chair).

  9. 10

    Jim King spews:

    Andy- TRO or preliminary injunction, the effect is the same- unless and until overturned by a higher court, King County cannot count those votes.

  10. 11

    motorhomeman spews:

    Mr. King–Please look at the prior thread. I’d appreciate your response but can understand why you might dodge it. The focus does need to be on Mr. Phillips. While Cynical is an ass, he is also on target with his observations. I am looking at Mr. Phillips voter reg. card and see the 2 different L’s. Cynical certainly wasn’t lying. I can attest to that. So how many other boo-boo’s did Logan make Mr. King? I will make a couple more calls and I’ll bet more surfaces. Overwhelming sir. If Logan is a previous Labor Council employee, why would anyone think he is truly independent?
    I’m old & tired but not stupid. Good night.

  11. 12

    Chuck spews:

    Uhh, I have a sick feeling in my stomach. How could the judge rule against counting those votes, someone needs to explain it in legalese to me.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Let me help you understand Brian, you see these votes were rejecten in the previous counts and / or had a potential custody problem, (as did most of King Counties votes but that is another matter). The hand recount is in place to validate the count of the votes that were determined to be legal votes in the last election. The “extra” votes were previously determined not to be valid by a hand examination. No matter what side you are on…that is clear, unless you are just too blind to see.

  12. 13

    gb spews:

    motorhomepuke–who ever you are you need to get a life.

    Dean Logan was hired right out of the Secretary of States office where he was in change of elections. Story told often….they all cried to loose him.

    I think he is in over his head, but making up lies about him is silly. You are more than old and tired….you are a partisian R hack involved is disinformation and not good at it. Old, tired and stupid says it better.

  13. 14

    gb spews:

    It is nothing less that astonishing to think that the newbie judge decided the experts in the room were either of the two parties, and ignored the TOTALLY expert testimony and brief of the Secretary of State.

    Long espoused concept in every cout proceeding I have ever attended is THE REAL expert in the proceeding. This judge just sailed into the breeze ingoring the expert.

    The Supremes did just the opposite, remember the Sec of State offered testimong that the correction valve for ballot problems was the canvassing board.

    Glad to see the appeal, just hysterically angry that every day John and Jane Doe have lost the right to have their votes counted.

    This lack of concern for the right to vote is the amazing aftermath of the on its face– just very close election.

    Shame, Shame, shame on the judicary. I will never trust you again.

  14. 15

    Jim King spews:

    GB- Cynical’s other self think’s he’s cute- but he can’t explain why his mother burned all his baby pictures, even though he had a bag over his head… Think under the Fremont bridge…

  15. 16

    motorhomeman spews:

    So you are saying Dean Logan never worked for the Labor Council?
    So what is Dean Logan’s COMPLETE resume?
    I agree with you that he is totally in over his head. This is the problem I’ve observed so many of you folks complain about. It seems like a bi-partisan agreement on Logan’s mismanagement.
    Sorry if I was wrong about Mr. Logan’s past. I am not into misinformation.
    So gb–how do you feel about Logan losing the scanned signature of Mr. Phillips, the guy who started this whole fiasco about the 573 votes? What an irony. That Mr. Phillips signature is on the Sec. of State site, scanned in (I am looking at it right now) and the signature isn’t scanned on the KingCo site when it must have been at some point. Mr. Cynical may be a R hack but he was right about this one.

  16. 17

    gb spews:

    Use a nickel and call the Sec of State office on Monday, they will give you all the roses and flowers on Logan.

    Many weeks ago, after all the so called uncountable votes became obvious in King, and an early media report said a woman had been almost disenfranchised because she signed without her middle initial, I became very aroused about- What the hell is going on? Thousand of these ballots set aside for various administrative reasons/excuses……..very strange to any well informed election follower.

    My impresssion then as it is now, that clear instructions of process and detail..good training…and ironclad supervision were lacking in Logans office. Record turnout, record registrations, many on the last days…..over their skills levels to cope, instruct and follow detailed steps each and every time. NO fraud, no cheating- incompetent and underskilled, inexperienced in running the big show.

    NEW INFORMATION – Chief Justice, State Supremes, interviewed on KIRO 7 late news- ” yes, the court is prepared to take this up with all due speed. We know the need to act quickly”….good.

  17. 18

    Chuck spews:

    If you want to put the blame and pressure where it belongs, you need to focus on the King county elections dept! The republicans simply want the law followed. The King county elections Dept. needs a shakeup and mass firing from ground level on up…but it will never happen.

  18. 19

    motorhomeman spews:

    gb & Jim King–
    Look at the 11/24/04 Seattle Times Article–
    Mr. Dean Logan was a Lobbyist and Campaign Co-ordinator for The Washington State Labor Council.
    gb–Why would you attack me for disclosing the truth?
    I’ve been sitting back watch all this for months knowing the many conflicts and errors. I find it incredible that people like gb and Jim King would attempt to defend Mr. Logan’s personal resume which is also a public record.
    Mr. King–it appears that once you are in the “high-roller lobbyist club” you can have people like you Mr. King as a lobbyist defender. Your credibility is zero Mr. King.
    The fact is Dean Logan was a Lobbyist and Campaign Co-ordinator for the Washington State Labor Council! And how many Republicans did Logan co-ordinate the campaigns for?
    Since I never heard of you Mr. King I checked around and found you are a name-dropper who tries to impress people with knowledge and intellect. You actually had me fooled for awhile Mr. King. I’m retired and have time on my hands to do real research.
    This is downright sleazy.

  19. 20

    Robin spews:

    It’s high time both Logan and his sidekick Huennekins go overboard. But for mismanagement, no management, having to watch them on tv too many times, or whatever, but not any evil doings. Hell, if the court ruling holds, they are the ones who cost Chris the election. They were in charge and thru error on their watch they may have disenfranchised a lot of voters.

  20. 22

    Goldy spews:

    Motorhome… we gave Cynical a tough time because he claimed to have seen Phillips registration cards on the SOS computer, and when we suggested he shouldn’t have had access to the SOS computer, he refused to acknowledge that he had actually seen them.

    Which is entirely separate from the issue of “who the fuck cares?” (Ooops… there I go swearing again… avert your eyes sensitive folk.)

    So Phillips signature is on the SOS computer but not the King County computer… somebody in KC screwed up. But we already knew that. So where’s the scandal?

    Unless… you’re trying to imply that Logan erased Phillips signature from the computer after the fact, along with the other 723, so that he could fraudulently get these ballots into the canvas? Is that it? Is that the game you and Cynical are playing? Implying all kinds of foul play, with absolutely no evidence to back it up, hoping the public grooves on these paranoid fantasies?

    Again… maybe I’m too partisan to see the truth, or too dumb to figure it out… so spell it out for me. What does this have to do with the only thing I care about here, should the 723 ballots be counted? WHERE’S THE SCANDAL?

  21. 23

    motorhomeman spews:

    Mr. King–
    Dean Logan was both a Lobbyist and Campaign Co-ordinator for the Washington State Labor Council. No barrage of attacks and sarcasm will change that.
    You have attacked Cynical and Snark…maybe they are jerks but so are you. None of your sarcasm or hollow comments address the facts.
    Between the Phillips fiasco of KingCo (Mr. Logan) losing Phillips scanned signature card PLUS all these new batches of unfound ballots together with Mr. Logan’s documented background it’s undeniable Mr. Logan has both Appearance of Fairness issues at a minimum and most likely a clear Conflict of Interest. Do you know what those terms mean Mr. King?

  22. 24

    motorhomeman spews:

    When I was in government, I observed the downfall of several people where it was the accumulation of a number of issues that brought them down. I agree with you that this Phillips signature card missing from the KingCo computer alone is not enough to banish Mr. Logan to hell. But it is another example of Logan’s incompetence. Cynical wore himself out and overplayed this issue. What he should have done is tied this together with all the other screw-ups under Logan’s watch and more importantly, Mr. Logan’s clear alliance with highly partisan Labor via his position as Lobbyist and Campaign Co-ordinator for the Washington State Labor Council. Can’t you see how when all these pieces are tied together it smells like a 10 day old dead fish in the sun to your average citizen? I think you know this Goldy.

    And I took your advice and looked thru past threads. You are wrong, Mr. Cynical never said he personally saw the Phillips signatures on the Sec of State site. Those are your words Goldy. It’s like you were looking for a way to shoot the messenger rather than acknowledge the message. Now I have seen Phillips scanned signatures. As much as it hurts to admit it Mr. Cynical was right. But Mr. Cynical clearly made to big a deal out of this one issue. Stupid, since it’s the accumulation of mismanagement and conflicts of interest regarding Mr. Logan that are appalling and the real issue.
    See what I mean?

  23. 25

    Robin spews:

    KC is one screwed up mess but there is no evil plot going on. I believe those ballots in question have postmarks. No matter what Logan’s background, as it stands now, he took the election from Chris. Vance ought to be giving him a medal.

  24. 26

    motorhomeman spews:

    At this point we must look not only at Mr. Logan’s horribly incompetent performance but also his background. We cannot aford to allow Mr. Logan to cover-up for himslef and have a huge Appearance of Fairness black cloud.
    Perhaps we need a team of 6 Auditors from other Counties who are experienced and have done a great job. How about 3 D’s and 3 R’s??
    I read this idea way back on SoundPolitics. It’s a great idea. Appropriate and doable because remember, the canvassing board has the power to delegate lots of authority.

  25. 27

    Robin spews:

    Fine, bring in outsiders, let the tv cameras roll but count the damn votes. Those are real people that are being disenfranchised.

  26. 28

    Goldy spews:

    Oh, and Motormouth… I know you’re coming in on a different IP than Cynical, so by courtesy I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt… but damn if your messages aren’t written and formatted like Cynical’s.

    You two (one?) want to get Logan fired? Have at him… that’s not my concern right now. Again… clue me in on why the 723 should not be counted because Phillips signature is on file with the SOS. (Careful… Cynical never directly answers my questions either.)

  27. 29

    jim p spews:

    Cynical has never answered any question directly, only with “I heard”, over there they are saying, and what if’s

  28. 30

    Jim King spews:

    Goldy- motormouth, like cynical, is a coward- that is why he hides…

    So, almost fifteen years ago Dean Logan worked a short shift at the Washington State Labor Council- that makes him evil? I guess I am on the dark side, too- having lobbied for the Washington State Building & Construcyion Trades Council, AFL-CIO, and IBEW Local 46.

    Oh, and for having had a junior high teacher who rose to be the #2 man at the Washington State Labor Council- in fact, Al Brisbois was #2 at the very time that Dean Logan was working there!

    And when I coordinated the fight on inmate labor for a business and labor coalition, among my financial contributors were the Ironworkers, Teamsters, County & City Employees, and many others…

    And in my work advocating for better State Parks, I have received contributions from the Washington Public Employees Association, now UFCW, WSLC, and AFL-CIO…

    Oh, and my daddy was a union carpenter…

    I know I have missed some of my nefarious labor connections, and this is getting awfully long, but among the Republicans who voted with my side were…

    On behalf of the locjed out Lockheed workers, then State Senator Jack Metcalf, State Senator Hal Zimmerman, then State Representative Linda Smith, State Representative Mike Patrick, and State Representative Bob Williams (now of the Evergreen Freedom Foundation)- all notorious organized labor goons…

    I don’t think I need to go on…

    So, motormouth, and the rest of your multiple personalities…

    Your point is?

  29. 31

    Donovan spews:

    Hopefully the recount will take a full four years, Washington will be without a Governor for that time and nothing will be done…sounds like somthing to wish for.

  30. 32

    jcricket spews:

    I also like the fact that outside of moterhomecynicalman, not a single person has claimed that there’s some sort of signature issue with Larry Phillips stored/scanned signatures. Far more likely that he (them? her?) is making it all up. It’s a red herring. A ruse designed to throw us off and mire us in useless discussions.

    Moterhomecynicalman is like the mythical tar baby. Let’s not be Brere Rabbit.

  31. 33

    bj spews:

    To Jim King or Goldy (right-wingers keep quiet)

    For us non-lawyers and non-spinners — based on the facts and assuming a rational and impartial thought process, is it expected that the Supreme Court will reverse the Friday decision?

  32. 34

    Goldy spews:

    bj… I am not an attorney, but from my understanding of the arguments before the Supremes, and established practice in WA state, they will overturn the lower court’s opinion. The SOS had argued to maintain standard practice, and standard practice would permit the KC canvasing board to fix errors when they show up during the recount. In fact, they did just that during the machine recount.

  33. 36

    jcricket spews:

    If Sam Reed gets up there and changes his mind on anything I am seriously going to regret voting for him. He seems to be doing an excellent job of keeping a level head, imho.

  34. 37

    DCF spews:

    The Government is embarrassed? You bet your sweet bippy they should be embarrassed. They have goofed up so many times in this election it isn’t funny. If we can’t trust them with our votes, how can we trust them with our welfare? I’m for every vote being counted if it was cast properly, and I’m for firing all government employees that are responsible for this royal fiasco! We the people should be embarrassed if voters are disenfranchised in our state just because we’re growing weary of this issue. Evidently you all are members of the younger, instant gratification, short attention span generation that can’t see justice through to the end. If we have to have a run-off election so be it. I for one would suggest that all those names printed in the paper in association with the ballots that were mistakenly not counted, sue the state for denial of their franchise.

  35. 38

    jcricket spews:

    Or, let King County correct the obvious error right now, as the SOS has said is their legal right, and make sure the 700+ people’s votes are counted. Rossi voters in that bunch (300?) benefit, Gregoire voters benefit (430?). Seems like the quickest way to resolve the problem and I have yet to see a good reason why these votes should not be counted.

    Yes, I’m aware that some of you have bought into the speculation that there isn’t a chain of custody, but it’s just speculation.

    Again, I’m not talking about the 22 leftover newly discovered ballots. These other 730 ballots were mailed in before the deadline, properly packaged, properly signed and improperly rejected. By all accounts I’ve read (outside of Chris Vance and unSound Politics) they’ve been properly accounted for and stored in a locked cage. No credible evidence of tampering (remember that burden of proof is always on the accuser).

    Seems to me that people who are suggesting those voters who cast their legal votes wait another four years for their votes to count are the ones that I might start to cast as villians.

  36. 39

    motorhomeman spews:

    A beautiful day in S. California–80 degrees. My wife wants to go south of the border tomorrow for 5 days. Retirement also has it’s committments. I showed her the reponses you folks have had to my information. She has convinced me (and it wasn’t verry hard), that you folks are not interested in the truth or connecting any dots. I disagree with you and pull your covers and now I’m somebody else you have demonized. And so it goes.
    Let me leave you with a few final thoughts:
    It will have to wait because I need to help pack and finish my honey-do list.
    Goldy, King, cricket et al keep trying to convince others how fair, open-minded etc. you are but it doesn’t change much.

  37. 40

    jcricket spews:

    On another topic, Rossi’s only gained a net of 8 votes, but we’ve obviously added over 1100 votes to the total. Has anyone done an analysis of the added votes, subtracted votes and any other changes where there’s a net cancellation to see how many votes have changed during this hand recount?

    I’d be very curious to see. The SeattleTimes article by Danny Westneat gives me great confidence in the hand recount.


  38. 41

    Goldy spews:

    Cricket… thanks for the pointer towards Danny Westneat’s column. I hadn’t seen it yet. I think I’ll blog on it.

  39. 42

    jcricket spews:

    So I should tell my wife that there are advantages to being online 24/7 (like seeing articles before the bloggers link to them).

    Kidding! Kidding! I actually went to the Sonics game last night hoping to lighten the mood. Unfortunately they lost a close one (110-112). Got my mind of the recount and the thought of 4-years of Chris Vance gloating.

    On a related note, there’s a picture of Dino Rossi on the cover of the JTNews (formerly known as the Jewish Transcript). He’s clutching a menorah.

  40. 43

    jcricket spews:

    So what’s the deal with the counties with absolutely no changes in the hand recount? Is it possible that the net changes cancelled each other out? Or that they really had no changes? What about the suspicion directed at these “perfect” places? Did they really conduct a recount? Are they all using touchscreens without audit trails? Newer machines?

    I’m thinking of Ferry, Garfield, Kittitas, Klickitat, Pacific, San Juan

    And the other counties with very few changes: Chelan, Columbia, Pend Orielle, Stevens, Wahkiakum.

  41. 44

    ThinkerInSeattle spews:

    Gosh you don’t suppose they actually simply counted correctly the 1st time around do you? And then the 2nd time too?? OMG you mean they aren’t “finding” votes that were “undiscovered” for nearly 7 weeks??? Is it possible bigbad King County will locate DB Cooper and the Treasure of Sierra Madre in all that “finding” they’re doing? Has anyone checked Sims/Logans/Berendts pants, socks and pockets (a la Sandy Berger) for a few more “missing” votes? Is there a King county lib ANYWHERE that can make the distinction between REcount and NEW count?

  42. 45

    Goldy spews:

    Thinker… that’s right, all us liberals are crooks and thieves, expert in the art of stealing elections. That’s why we control Congress, the White House, and the Supreme Court.

  43. 46

    ThinkerInSeattle spews:

    Congress? WHITE House? I think you better check your election results babe. Oh! You meant the socialist government of the formerly-great-state-now-Ukraine/banana-republic-of Washington! And as far as the Supremes, thanks so much for confirming what we all know about LIBERAL activist judges. I’ll bet they are thrilled to know you’ve “outed” them! Although, golly, gosh, gee whiz, they sure didn’t seem to respond to all that liberal whining and Paul Berendts tears in court LAST week now did they?

  44. 47

    ThinkerInSeattle spews:

    White house? Congress? You better check your election results babe. OH! you meant the socialst government ofthe formerly-great-state-now-Ukraine/banana-republic-of Washington! Hey and thanks for confirming what we all knew about LIBERAL activist judges too babe! (I’ll bet they are just thrilled to be outed by you.) Although it didn’t work out to well for the whining Dems and the oh so crocodile tearfull Paul Berendt last week now did it?

  45. 49

    ThinkerInSeattle spews:

    I again refer you to this jiminy babe: “He seems to not appreciate the glory of the unspoken thought.” James Carville