Horse’s BLEEP

I just watched this week’s edition of Up Front With Robert Mak, featuring Stefan and myself. Not quite as exciting as the sudden death playoff in the Masters Tournament going on simultaneously over on channel 7 (Tiger won,) but I suppose it serves as a reasonable introduction to local political blogging for people who have been living in a hole. In case you missed it, the show will be rebroadcast tonight on KONG-16 at 10:30 pm, or you can stream it online from the KING-5 website.

Please remember that my few minutes of airtime were distilled from a two-hour interview in which I didn’t just talk about Stefan and the election. And while I have few complaints about being taken out of context, I want to assure everybody that I’m not quite so arrogant about my role in the election contest PR war as I probably came across. Many, many other blogs have contributed to the effort, including some great research and analysis from Also Also and Preemptive Karma. And I didn’t mean to entirely dis the media efforts of the state Democratic Party, the Gregoire campaign, and their surrogates, but lets face it… as far as PR goes, the Dems got their asses kicked.

Oh… and there was one thing that really pissed me off: they refused to say my domain name, going so far as to intentionally obscure it on screen. I was particularly surprised to hear them bleep the word “ass” in an old clip from the initiative campaign, which originally aired unbleeped, “ass” intact.

I’m proud of my brand, and don’t intend to drop it. But I clearly need to come up with an alternative domain name that won’t scare off the media cowards/puritans. Any suggestions?

A couple people have asked about Robert Mak’s statement that I count my visitors in the hundreds. I generally do not reveal my web stats, but I believe what I said was that I have several hundred comments a day. My traffic is admittedly less than (u)SP’s, but it is certainly more than a couple hundred.


  1. 1

    bmvaughn spews:

    I think you should call it Horse ‘Sass.

    Yeah.. you were given a bit of a raw deal with editing, because they made you look like you lost your medication as compared with Stefan.

  2. 2

    martha spews:

    I hadn’t heard of your blog before and appreciate what you are about. I second Horse ‘Sass. Very good.

  3. 6

    Chris spews:

    It was good to hear you aknowledge that you don’t do any research. I believe you said you are in a postion of defending the dems (Gregoire), you are clearly on the defensive where Stefan is on the offensive. You just try to shoot holes in all the actual work/research done by Stefan with opinion of fact instead of actual fact. Nothing wrong with that Goldy, this can be an opinion blog based upon opinion. Stefan chooses to have his opinion’s supported by fact and research.

    By the way, you been losing weight? Got a hair cut too, nice.

  4. 8

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    Well, at least your honest:



    Amen to that!


    Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus


    Ain’t that the truth!

  5. 11

    JCH spews:

    “And I didn’t mean to entirely dis the media efforts of the state Democratic Party, the Gregoire campaign, and their surrogates, but lets face it… as far as PR goes, the Dems got their asses kicked.”……..When you lie, cheat, and steal elections [Milwaukee, Philly, Detroit, DC, Chicago, King County], and then bitch about the “PR”, you need to rethink your position. Democrats: voter felons.

  6. 12

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    To Don:

    Quoting Petronius – In alio pediculum, in te ricinum non vides – You see a louse on someone else, but not a tick on yourself.

  7. 13

    chardonnay spews:

    maybe if you told people your site is comedic. I think this is a great source of political humor.
    up front with robert mak
    goldy from horses crack

  8. 15


    Suggestions at the top of my head:

    *Democrat Rider
    *Vote Counter
    *The ANTI-Marummy
    *Goldy in Kristin Country
    *Brost’s Ass
    *Kristin’s Boyfriend
    *Goldy’s Country
    *Blue Truth

    Oh and the word ASS got on the air at 10:42 of the streaming audio.

  9. 16

    DP spews:

    The British find “Horse Arse” acceptable. Perhaps better in mixed company or the press.

  10. 18

    Media coward/puritan spews:

    How about “”? Perhaps it’s time for someone with better horse sense to launch a state-level public affairs blog that doesn’t just throw dishes around like a spoiled little brat.

  11. 19

    Erik spews:

    I believe you said you are in a postion of defending the dems (Gregoire), you are clearly on the defensive where Stefan is on the offensive.

    Yes, you want to focus on continuing to having your take on the news rather than being simply reactionary.

    I think you have done that pretty well in the last couple of months.

    Of course, “Horses Ass” is a complete reaction to Eyeman.

    On the other hand kept the same name. Maybe you can.
    In the end, however, I think you might want to consider another name that has some of the same ring to it.

  12. 23

    zip spews:


    If the media cowards/puritans are part of your target audience down the road, go for a full scale name change. If you assume Eyman will be washed up soon, lose the HorsesAss and all resemblances to it. Otherwise you’ll always be identified with anti-Eyman in some peoples minds. Figure out what your vision is for your site after the election contest is long gone and go for a name reflecting that vision. Something like Sound Truth or Sound Ideas is as puritan (and derivative) as they come.

  13. 24

    Jeff B. spews:


    I keep tryin’ to tell ya, lose the profanity. I know you like it, and I’m not some kind of prude, there is a place for profanity, some times it can be quite fun and stress relieving, but if you want to be taken seriously, you’ve got to act like you want to be taken seriously. This is not hard to figure out, and you get many things, so I can’t see why you don’t get this.

    And don’t start trying to say that you like it, and its your blog, and you do it to amuse only you, blah, blah, blah. Look, we all wear clothes. Some people insist that nudity is no big deal, and they hold nudist nights at restaurants, etc., but they are just not taken seriously and they never will be because duh, they are naked in a world of clothed people.

    The moment you stop swearing and take yourself more seriously will be the moment that others do too.

    Now, as for Mak’s show, that was about as balanced a piece as I’ve seen regaring blogging anywhere in the entire mainstream media, but of course it did have it’s obvious editing flaws. I agree you were quoted out of context, but it was a bald faced lie for you to say that Stefan is trying to paint this as an organized conspiracy perpetrated by and with Gregoire’s full involvement. That’s on par with Slade Gorton’s statement that you freaked out about the other day. So stop throwing stones. And if you want to be taken seriously, another good thing would be to just admit that the election is indeed a mess. Admit that it the absentee report is serioulsly flawed etc. This is just basic negotiation 101, your opponents will take you a lot more seriously if you give a little first and then try to get your point across.

    Overall, I think Stefan’s right. You are a really nice guy, I’d actually like to meet you. I MIGHT even buy you a beer. I’ll never agree with your far left stance, but I have to admit your excellent writing has grown on me througout the past 5 months. What I have learned as I’ve gotten to know you through your writing, is that the whole right / left debate is very shrill and that because of media like the blogs where we don’t have to relate face to face, it’s even more so. But reading your blog in constant contrast with Stefan’s has reminded me that we are all still people despite our differing opinions. It’s an important lesson in civil discourse. If anyone else wants to read a master of civility in action, go read Jim Miller’s blog.


  14. 28

    JCH spews:

    Florida With Rain
    Opinion Journal/The Wall Street Journal, by John Fund

    Original Article [can’t link…go to Monday’s WSJ. Congrats to Shark who is mentioned in the last paragraph!]

  15. 29

    Goldy spews:

    Chris @6,

    Yes, when it comes to the election contest I have always been on the defensive. That’s because my candidate won the election, and I am trying to defend her. However, as my regular readers know, I cover an awful lot of other subjects for just one guy, and I’m often out in front.

    ProudAss @8,

    Kind of funny that you do all those quotes, but none of them are actual quotes of things I actually said… instead you chose to quote the editorial spin of comments they didn’t show you. In truth, my daily unique viewers is in 4 digits… still considerably less than (u)SP, all though I get many more page views and incredibly more comments per visit than they do, so my readers are obviously much more involved.

    Jeff B @24,

    There is a difference between being serious and being solemn.

    Furthermore, I stand by my statement about Stefan’s intention. While he may not explicitly state that Gregoire is part of a conspiracy, that is the general notion he consistently implies. He calls this a stolen election. He calls Gregoire a fraud. People connect the lines.

    jpgee @27,

    It’s all working according to my devious plan.

  16. 30

    chardonnay spews:

    I just watched you on Mak.
    you did a good job bringing up “Gov Fraudoire” and “Corrupt Democrats stole the election.” I think it’s important the viewing audience hears those 2 things as often as possible.

  17. 31

    Dubyasux spews:

    Jeff B. @ 24

    You say this election is a “mess,” but I’ve never seen you post any concern about the fact tens of thousands of eligible (and mostly minority) voters were wrongly thrown off the rolls in Florida, and that George Bush probably would not have been president in 2001-2005 if this hadn’t been done by GOP election officials. Why is that? Is your concern for election integrity so partisan that it matters only when the Republican candidate loses?

  18. 32

    Dubyasux spews:

    chardonnay @ 29

    I find it hypocritical that you whine about my lack of civility on the open thread, then you turn around and call our governor a fraud and claim the Democrats “stole” the election. Not even Rossi, Vance, or the GOP is claiming fraud or election theft anymore; so why the display of disrespect? Is it your wish and intent to keep the incivility and disrespect here on HA going on, and on, and on?

  19. 33

    Bullshit this election was a mess spews:

    From the wall Street Journal! Read on dear democraps!


    Florida With Rain
    More funny business in the Washington governor’s race. Will there be a new election this year?

    Monday, April 11, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

    Washington state has supplanted Florida as the leading example of the need for election reform. The Evergreen State’s voting system is so sloppy that you can’t tell where incompetence ends and actual fraud might begin. Three Washington counties just discovered 110 uncounted absentee ballots–including 94 from Seattle’s King County–in a governor’s race that occurred more than five months ago and was decided by only 129 votes. Officials in Seattle’s King County admit they may find yet more ballots before a court hearing next month on whether a new election should be called. Last Friday, they reported finding a 111th ballot.

    The infamous 2004 governor’s race was finally decided seven weeks after the election, after King County officials found new unsecured ballots on nine separate occasions during two statewide recounts. After the new ballots were counted, Democrat Christine Gregoire won a 129-vote victory out of some three million ballots cast. Even as she was sworn in last January, King County election supervisor Dean Logan admitted it had been “a messy process.”

    He wasn’t kidding. During the two recounts, Mr. Logan’s office discovered 566 “erroneously rejected” absentee ballots, plus another 150 uncounted ones that turned up in a warehouse. Evidence surfaced that dead people had “exercised their right to vote”; documentation was presented that 900 felons in King County alone had illegally voted and that military ballots were sent out too late to be counted. A total of 700 provisional ballots had been fed into voting machines before officials had determined their validity. In the four previous November elections, King County workers had never mishandled more than nine provisional ballots in a single election.

    Slade Gorton, a Republican former state attorney general and U.S. senator, has joined with six Republican members of the King County Council in calling for a Justice Department investigation of the county’s handling of ballots. Records indicate that some election officials in King County knew that the absentee ballot report they filed in November was inaccurate because there was evidence at least 86 ballots had been misplaced. Ignoring the requirement that they count the number of ballots received, instead they simply added together the number counted and rejected.
    “That’s appalling,” says Secretary of State Sam Reed, a Republican who has frequently drawn praise from Democrats for being evenhanded. “You just don’t do those things.” Even the office of Democratic County Executive Ron Sims admits that “an outside review is probably a good idea” if for no other reason than to address Republican suspicions about the 94 new King County ballots. GOP lawyers point out that two-thirds of the new votes were cast in King County precincts that Republican Dino Rossi won. Ms. Gregoire won seven in 10 King County precincts.

    All of this means that the May 23 date set for a trial on a GOP lawsuit seeking to declare the election invalid and to hold a new one this November takes on added significance. Mr. Gorton points out that “a court [can] void any election where the number of illegal or mistaken votes exceeds the margin of victory.” In the case of last year’s race for governor the number of uncounted ballots unearthed just this April is fast approaching Ms. Gregoire’s margin of victory.

    You’d think the Democratic Legislature would be appalled at the rampant mistakes and move to fix them. Indeed, separate election reform packages passed by both the House and Senate contain such good ideas as changing the appearance of provisional ballots so they aren’t as easily mixed in with regular ballots. But both chambers also want to expand the state’s already generous use of mail-in ballots, the system that directly led to so many mishaps last November. The state House passed a bill that would mandate that every election be conducted with only mail-in ballots, as Oregon does now.
    What’s more, the state’s current widespread use of mail-in ballots provided an excuse for Kathy Haigh, chairman of the House committee overseeing election laws, to strip the election reform bill of a requirement that voters show photo ID at the polls. “Sixty-eight percent of the people are voting by mail,” she explained. “When do they have to show ID? They don’t, they have to sign.” Precisely, which is a reason that expanding mail-in elections would only increase the potential for fraud.

    It’s no wonder that election reformers have developed a kind of gallows humor over how Washington, once renowned for its clean government, now finds its election system compared to those in Louisiana or Philadelphia.

    Stefan Sharkansky, a computer engineer who runs, a comprehensive blog on the election debacle, uncovered the errors in King County’s absentee voter report through a state Public Disclosure Act request. He has filed additional requests for the audit trail created by King County election officials to handle all the ballots. He was told he would have the records delivered by March 31, but that date has slipped to April 15. Mr. Sharkansky reports that date may now move again because “county officials are scrambling to explain their latest mistakes and say they may not have time to answer my request.” Let’s hope they do before next month’s trial.

  20. 36

    Goldy spews:

    GS @32,

    John Fund is a partisan hack, and I wouldn’t wipe my ass with the WSJ editorial page.

    And next time… a link and an excerpt… that’s all. I’m giving you all another warning… do NOT copy and paste entire articles into your comments. It is bad blog etiquette, and it technically violates the copyright laws.

  21. 37

    Jeff B. spews:

    Dubyasux @30. You don’t want to go there. There’s a volume of documentation that shows that Bush won the 2000 election. Go read about it. As for the “mess” yes it was a mess. Frankly, I’m not concerened with the outcome so much as the mess. I’d like to see Rossi in office because I think that Gregoire is a terrible example of the far left statist mentality that we don’t need, however I would gladly welcome her as governor if she won the election in a convincing manner. There’s no way that anyone can say that the outcome of this election is determinate with mistakes that were made, and the lack of accurate documentation to even explain what happened. And frankly all illegitimate voters should be expunged from the rolls everywhere regardless of how that tips the scales.

    Lastly, the reason why I haven’t posted anything about the Florida election is that this blog covers WA politics and that election was five years ago. Nice use of fallacy though; Appeal to Pity, Anonymous Authority and From Ignorance.

  22. 38

    Jeff B. spews:

    Goldy @28,

    You’ve got to be kidding. There’s a difference between provocative prose and serious assertions. You should know that better than anyone else.

    It’s again beyond the pale that you would imply that Stefan intends to persuade everyone that the election was the result of conspiracy. For one thing, the election can be stolen from its rightful winner through incompetence just as easily as through conspiracy. Stefan does indeed use colorful names like Fraudoire, but if that’s reason to fault him, then cast the first stone at your web server.

  23. 39

    M spews:

    I was surprised to hear that you only get a few hundred readers a day. Can that really be true? Or was that just goofball reporting? I’d guess you’ve got a whole lot more than that

  24. 40

    M spews:

    And I wasn’t surprised that they bleeped your blog name. sorry, but Jeff B is right. The four-letter stuff really doesn’t add. I know you think it makes you sound more serious or something, but it lowers the opinion in others’ eyes. And I think you probably want to be taken somewhat seriously, given all the effort you put into this. Think about it. Stefan doesn’t puke four-letter words all over his readers and he’s still a popular read. How can that be?????

  25. 41

    zip spews:

    Goldy @ 35

    Shoot the messenger whydoncha? All Fund did was repeat and opinionate over the known facts. With WSJ’s circulation of 2.1 million Fund can sway a few minds in high places with this editiorial.

  26. 42

    Goldy spews:

    M @39,

    I do not generally reveal my web stats. What I told them was that I get a few hundred comments a day. My “unique visits” is in 4 digits, and while my traffic is considerably less than (u)SP, my readers are much more involved, spending a helluva lot more time per visit, and doing three times the page views per visit.

  27. 45

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    You may think Fund is a partisan hack and you may have less than honorable intentions toward the WSJ, but that really simply says volumes about your pedestrian tastes and ignores the fact that the the WSJ and Fund have used their combined formidable ability to alert the nation that Washington State, well known to be owned and operated lock stock and barrel by LIBERALS of the looney left, is a royal screwed up laughingstock.

    How proud you must be.

  28. 46

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    my readers are much more involved, spending a helluva lot more time per visit, and doing three times the page views per visit. -Comment by Goldy— 4/11/05 @ 12:13 am

    Yes, they are… in the great sport of haranguing and harrassing each other, NOT contributing constructively to scintillating debate. Just like amazing pet tricks, it can be quite amusing.

  29. 47

    zip spews:


    That’s Goldy’s style. He lobs hand grenades out there to fire up his base and tick off the opposing side. Just look at his last half dozen articles. Preaching to the choir, and watching the arguments and fighting ensue.

    According to Goldy’s latest writings, John Fund and Slade Gorton are partisan hacks (what does that make you Goldy?), the gay republican is a hypocrite for some twisted reason only Goldy and “his ilk” understand, and HB1515 can’t pass in the democrat controlled senate because republican senators endorse discrimination.

  30. 48

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    Sorry M, but “four letter words” don’t make anyone sound “serious”. They are not clever, cool, ingenious or attractive.

    “Four letter words” make the user sound childish and unintelligent because, quite frankly, anyone with a command of the language doesn’t resort to immature epithets.

    “Four letter words” make the user sound uncouth and rude.

    “Four letter words” make it clear the user has little respect for the person who hears them and less respect for himself.

    “Four letter words” make the user sound crass, uneducated, lazy and unprepared.

    “Four letter words” quickly alert folks that nothing of value is coming.

  31. 49

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    But hey, who knows?

    Perhaps Goldy is happy to be a blog version of “Animal House” while Stefan clearly aspires toward a more mature “Citizen Kane”.

  32. 50

    M spews:

    Maybe et al. I guess you missed my point. I agree with all you say but didn’t think it necessary to go to all that detail. I think everyone knows all that.

  33. 51

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Ok Goldy…time for some constructive criticism:
    1) You need some voice lessons. A little bit better than previous interviews you have done but neighborhood dogs still started howling when they heard your voice.
    2) You need to start doing some legitimate research on this election scam…not just react to Stefan. You sound like the jealous little kid who sits in the corner with a dunce cap on playing with himself knowing his best grade will be a D- while Stefan is the “Golden Boy” straight A student.

    At least you weren’t a complete fucking idiot!

  34. 52

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I think dropping the HorsesAss monikor is a good idea.
    That was a one hit wonder….a song with one bad note played over and over again.
    Since all you ever you do is provide pukey little tidbits and try to glue them together to rationalize your point (whatever that is) and you show very little courage…..
    I think your new BLOG should be called:

  35. 53

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Your pal DonSux posted 74 times on the open thread out of 228 comments. A more relevant statistic would be how many different people posted on your Blog the past week??
    Is this “hundreds” just more LEFTIST smoke-and-mirrors??

  36. 55

    jpgee spews:

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE @ 48, citizen adolf is more correct for uSP. Do as I say or I WILL BLOCK YOU, THERE WILL BE NO INDIVIVUAL THOUGHTS, ONLY THOSE THAT ‘I’ TELL YOU ARE CORRECT

  37. 56

    jpgee spews:

    there you go IDIOT @ 51, such a fetish with male sexual parts. You are outting yourself with no encouragement from the normal posters LMAO @ U as always.

  38. 58

    bj spews:

    Goldy —

    I thought you came off fine, even if Mak made you look like the quick rebuttal to the “featured” Stefen. At least you don’t fake a nervous little smile at the end of every sentence like S. seems to.

    The number of site hits sounds reasonable and respectable, but the number of comments is kind of meaningless, since most of them seem to be from the USP regulars who don’t have anything else to do than live-eat-and-breathe their cause 24/7. And I personally just read the blog for your perspective, not their (mostly) stupid comments.

    And a new name is a good idea. Hope you stay with this for a while…

  39. 60

    Chee spews:

    RE: renaming your blog. Gold Star Politics or Speak-Easy Politics have a nice ring. Re: To be vulgar or not to be vulgar, if that be the question, this is what Steele had to say about that.

    Nothing is more silly than the pleasure some people take “in speaking their minds”. A person of this make will say rude things for the mere pleasue of saying it when an opposite behavior may have preserved a friend or made his fortune.–Steele

  40. 61

    Chris spews:

    I think it is important that you noted with Mak that you are a propagandist. We all knew it but you have admitted that no one will find any “fact” from you that does not support your way of thinking. It is impossible for you to be objective and regardless of the facts in front of you, such as the election mess, you will hold the line and not be swayed by truth or fact. You have committed yourself to the Democrat positions so much that you can’t think for yourself or analyze fact to come up with a different opinion. You have a full time job on this blog diverting from the truth to propagate your views. Sad Goldy, you have to avoid the truth for your position to be valid. It must suck not to be able to evaluate information and come up with your own opinions. Nothing you say can be taken seriously because it is clear you will say whatever helps your cause. You won’t even acknowledge what is obvious to clear minded people, that this election is a total mess and the result is in serious doubt. I don’t expect you too, because again that would not help your cause. You turn a blind eye to the truth to help validate Gregoire as Governor. You have no principles and would sell your soul to help the D’s.

    Definitions of propagandist on the Web:
    • a person who disseminates messages calculated to assist some cause or some government
    • of or relating to or characterized by propaganda

    • Propaganda is a specific type of message presentation aimed at serving an agenda. At its root, the denotation of propaganda is ‘to propagate (actively spread) a philosophy or point of view’. The most common use of the term (historically) is in political contexts; in particular to refer to certain efforts sponsored by governments or political groups.

    I hope that others will see you and your positions for what they are and use this blog for the same thing I do….a good laugh & entertainment.

  41. 62

    chardonnay spews:

    What dictator propagandized himself as a loving son, who loved children as he was slaughtering citizens in the Gold mines. no pun intended.

  42. 63


    Boy, Fund really comes off looking like an idiot. Count up all the factually incorrect statements! For God’s sake, he’s still throwing out the military ballots idiocy that even Rossi took out of his contest petition.

    In a situation where one blogger does little to no research, and the other does lots of it but is so bad and dishonest at it that he ends up with embarrassingly poor conclusions–give me the reactionist.

    (and Goldy DOES do his own research, anyway. Who do you think taught Stefan and the talk radio world how voter crediting works?

  43. 64

    Chee spews:

    TRUE DICTATORSHIP is when government over-shoots it’s runway. REPUBLICAN TOM DELAY and the BUSH BROTHERS are a prime EXAMPLE of wanting to DICATATE. When failing horribly, Delay is non-stop, wants to impeach the judges. Delay is trying to propogate his own propaganda upon the mass. Screw that noise!

  44. 66

    chardonnay spews:

    TJ, which paragraph is the military ballot addressed in Funds article. I can’t find it.
    I did find this though, which I believe I brought up last week and all you HA quickly dismissed.

    “Records indicate that some election officials in King County knew that the absentee ballot report they filed in November was inaccurate because there was evidence at least 86 ballots had been misplaced”-Slade Gorton.

  45. 67


    chard @ 66
    “and that military ballots were sent out too late to be counted.”

    I dismissed that the ballot report was inaccurate? Don’t think so. “Some election officials” would include the four people on suspension, right?

  46. 68

    DamnageD spews:

    Considering the corperate nature of the beeping of the word “ass”…cause lord knows, theres nothing that the word “ass” used in context… how about honoring the corperate folks for what they truly are and offer the namw “whore sass”. Your really not changing anything, and you can tip your hat to them at the same time.

    And a quick comment to “MAYBEyourfuckingnameistooLONG” @ 48;
    GO preach to your “elected” leadres about your synapse of the use of four letter words,cause if I recall, they utlize it often…then again it really DOES solidify your hypothsis.

  47. 70

    Chee spews:

    Dictator Bush dictated, ordered the topple of Dictator of Iraq. NOW, we find there was no just cause for Bush to go to war with the intent to bomb the hell out of the palace and hiding places of their Iraqian leader. The intent to kill is the intent to kill. What happened to G.W’s “thou shalt not kill?” Wonder if Bush had the chance to pull the leaders feeding tube instead if he would have done so. Least that way many innocent men, woman, children and soldiers on both sides of the war zone would still be alive.

  48. 71

    John spews:

    Chris @ 61

    Your worthless comments and the truth had a divorce a very long time ago.

    You may laugh but it is the laugh of a lunatic warped by his wingnut delusions.

  49. 72

    John spews:

    The thoughtful liberal posters here have all Chee @ 4

    Could not have said it better. People who have moderately liberal views have just about given up on commenting here. We read the posts but avoid the comments. These wingnut crazies have stunk up the place so bad. Pretty soon it’ll be a luntic echo chamber like at (u)SP.but been driven off by the wingnut crazies and their crap-flinging. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve “gone private” into some members only mailing list.

    Some brave counterpunchers like Dubyasux hold out but it’s really dispiriting work. These echo-chamber lunatics still spew the same old tired mantras that have been fed to them through newsmax, wnd,, faux news… the list is endless.

    Cut and paste minds… So sad..

  50. 73

    Chris spews:

    TJ@63 – continue to ignore the facts not in dispute, it’s the only way you can feel good about supporting this election result.

    Hundreds of Felons Voting
    Dozens of Double Votes
    700 Mishandled Provisional Ballots
    Lost and then found after the fact ballots (10 or 11 times) 110 uncounted votes to date, probably more to come.
    Lost Ballots that have not been found – at least one (Bryan Suits) but probably many more.
    50,000 + Enhanced Ballots, debate open if illegally enhanced or not. (I’m sure it’s not open to you, of course they were enhanced properly right?)
    Dead people credited with voting.
    “Flawed” and “Meaningless” report used in certification. (some call this fraud)

    These are just the things we know about, how about that which has yet to surface? I like how your side responds to fact. When an issue is raised and the initial number is adjusted with the collection of more data, you want to ignore the fact and focus on the change in number and invalidate the point entirely. Example, your side did not care about felons voting, you only cared that the initial number indicated was too high and was adjusted lower. It does not change the fact that hundreds of felons illegally voted but you don’t want to see that. You want to discredit the whole thing because it does not help your agenda.

    You all like to say the only thing exceptional in this election is the closeness, these errors always happen. Bullshit, show me an election that anything near the list of issues above has happened and in the volume in which these errors occurred. “In the four previous November elections, King County workers had never mishandled more than nine provisional ballots in a single election.” Big difference between nine and 700, huge. So enough with the “these problems happen all the time” crap, you look foolish every time any of you say it. Show me any election where enough lost and then found ballots was equal to what is currently 85% of the margin of victory. That’s what we have so far; enough lost and found uncounted ballots to account for 85% of Gregoire’s lead. Give it a day or two it may exceed 100%.

    So go ahead and keep up the charade, but you should feel embarrassed doing so.

  51. 74

    chardonnay spews:

    TJ @ 67
    oh, I see it now, thanks. I was Speed reading again.

    chee @ 70
    the dictator that forced people to drink gasoline and then take them out in the public sqaure and shoot them? That dictator?
    Do you support keeping that kind of dictator in power? Where are your ethics.

  52. 75

    Diggindude spews:

    What looks more silly, is you chris, trying to fix the entire election process of the u.s., on the back of washington’s governor’s race.
    There were no more errors in this race, than there were in any other race, and this one actually fared much better than most,in ration of errors to total votes.
    Many counties in wa. had more percentage of errors.
    Rossi counties. Red counties.
    You wingnuts trying to claim this such a poor performance, have yet to acknowledge all the errors, and outright criminal activity, that went on in every swing state.
    Until you wack jobs own up to the disregard you REALLY have towards the election process in general, you have zero credibility, critisizing this race.
    Your team is chock full of liars and propagandists, that will resort to all levels of slime, in order to win.
    You get no respect, being a slimeball supporter.

  53. 77

    Chris spews:

    John@71 & 72 –

    What is untrue in what I have posted? You cannot honestly dispute what I have said so you don’t even attempt. That’s good, it never has worked out for you in the past. You are better off just spewing non-factual dribble and moving on. It is good to hear that trying to debate people that use documented fact and sources to support their opinions is wearing on you. Running out of excuses? It is your “Model Election”, “These errors happen all the time”, mantras that are tired. Fact based opinions don’t get “tired” because they have truth to help maintain them.

  54. 78

    John spews:

    Chris @ 73

    Another classic crap-fling by the infamous Chris. No citation of sources to back up his assertions – obviously motivated by the skewering of one his wingnut heroes – the thoroughly discredited John Fund. Hope you didn’t lay out any cash for one of his dust-gathering books. If so he’s laughing all the way to the bank – at you.

    Sorry Chris, but felons have always voted in just about every election before this one. More in this election than others because *ding*ding* there was a record turnout. Were there more problems in this election than others? Maybe. Probably because there was *ding*ding* – a record turnout. Were these problems anyone’s concern before now? Not really because *ding*ding* we’ve never had an election this close.

    Did a lightbulb just go off in your dim mind? No that would be hoping for too much.

  55. 79

    Chris spews:

    DD@75 – “There were no more errors in this race, than there were in any other race,”

    More ranting and no facts – typical of you.
    For once back it up! Don’t just says it’s so. What specifics do you have?

    How many provisional ballots is “Normal” to screw up?
    How many illegal Felon votes is “Normal”?
    How many lost then found ballots is “Normal”?
    How many unfound, lost ballots is “Normal”?
    How many time is “Normal” to find ballots?
    How “Normal” is it to have one of the reports used to certify an election be “Flawed” and “Meaningless”?
    How Many Dead people voting is “Normal”?
    How many double votes is “Normal”?
    How many enhanced ballots is “Normal”?
    What is the number of lost and found ballots “Noramlly”, as a % of the marigin of voctory?

    Time to deliver here DD, otherwise people might start thinking you don’t know what you are talking about. Or should we just accept that if you say it is gospel?

  56. 80


    chris @ 73
    I don’t ignore them, and there are other reasons to feel good about the result despite them–the errors you detail are minimal. There is no debate about enhanced ballots; Rossi has dropped that item from his election contest petition, just like the military ballots canard. The remainder involve something on the order of fewer than 500 illegally counted ballots, or legal ballots counted but not received. That’s .05%–pretty damned good, based on nationwide electoral error tolerances. And that’s counting dead and felon votes, which can’t be blamed on King County at all. The ones directly attributable to King are the 120 or so presumed invalid provisionals (fewer than that are confirmed invalid), the 20 rejected from the ballot trays, and the 94 found last week.

    It’s not that “we” don’t want to hear about felon votes, it’s that a) it’s not King’s fault; b) the problem was on its way to being largely solved before the election; and c) there is only so far the counties can go to deal with felon votes in the first place.

    I’m curious as to the provenance of your quote about “nine provisional ballots.” Who’s that from? Also realize that the # of provisionals was a record this election, much higher than any other previous.

  57. 82


    Chris @ 79, again
    And I assume you know the answers to your questions, and will be providing the answers shortly–since of course, you can’t claim to know King’s troubles are abnormal, unless you yourself know what normal is. Right?

  58. 83

    Liking it spews:


    At best Mak’s piece sees you as being a waterboy for the inept pr of the democrats. At worst, Mak portrays you as merely being a foil to Eyman and Sharkansky by imitation. Neither is very good coverage of you.

    People need to know you for who you are. Anyone who reads your blog knows you are not just the anti-Eyman, or the anti-Sharkansky. But the media doesn’t know who you are.

    I would drop the HorsesAss and try to develop something new and different.

  59. 84

    Dubyasux spews:

    Jeff B. @ 37

    Yes, let’s go there, because the civil rights violations were confirmed by the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, and with Bush’s margin of victory in Florida only 537 votes, how could he have possibly won legitimately when 57,000 voters in Democratic precincts were disenfranchised?

  60. 85

    John spews:

    Chris @ everywhere

    Once again, TJ, to whom you can’t hold a candle, has skewered your endless list of delusions.

    Better come up with some sources to back up your points because you’re withering fast. But you won’t do that won’t you?

    Because you’d be exposing the sea of right-wing propaganda that you’re addicted to.

  61. 86

    Dubyasux spews:

    Jeff B. @ 37

    “I would gladly welcome her as governor if she won the election in a convincing manner”

    Are you serious? Nobody wins a close election in a “convincing” manner! If an election is close enough, someone can always raise a doubt about its legitimacy by alleging irregularities. The real question is, did irregularities change the result?

    Gregoire doesn’t need a “convincing” margin of victory, she only needs 1 more legal vote than Rossi to make her the legitimate governor, so I suggest you rethink your criteria for accepting the outcome of this election.

  62. 87

    John spews:

    Liking it @ 83

    Every celebrity knows there’s no such thing as bad publicity.

    Just look at the inmates from the right-wing lunatic asylum echo-chamber who have dropped by to pay homage.

  63. 88

    Chris spews:


    You are helping prove my point the more you post, so please keep it going. What is inaccurate in what I post? You say it is crap flinging and not supported by citation and then you support it for me by acknowledging I am right? What do you disagree with? It’s all public knowledge and not in dispute. You may disagree that it should not change the election result but you cannot honestly say anything I posted is false.

    As far as John Fund goes, I don’t even really know who the fucking guy is. Of course I have heard of him and know him to be conservative but other then that I could be standing next to him right now and not know it. I don’t form my opinion based upon who says what, I am able to evaluate facts and form my own opinions. So as far as buying his book, can’t say I even knew he wrote one. You see I am a “normal” guy that has a keen interest in right and wrong, not in supporting an agenda. I am clearly conservative and proud to be. I tend to support the Republican Party but don’t always agree with it. I am not afraid to make my own decision on issues and will not tow the party line on issues I disagree with. Examples: I supported keeping Terri Shavio alive but not federal government involvement; I support tougher border security and truly cracking down on illegal immigration.

  64. 89

    DamnageD spews:

    liking it..

    Ya gotta keep in mind this was never meant to become a serious blog.

    It’s turned into more of a conservative presure release valve…with Goldy and the rest or us adding fuel to the furnace.

    Keep the good work folks, you just solidify the need for “liberal pinkos” in Jesusland (aka, America).

  65. 90

    Dubyasux spews:

    MAYBE But I Doubt It @ 48

    While your criticism of vulgar language is obviously valid, the fact remains substance is always more important than style, and your focus on Goldy’s style is a mere distraction from the substance of his writings. I care far less about whether he uses polite language than whether the GOP’s allegations of a stolen election are a lie intended to undermine the governor and whip up partisan rancor.

  66. 91

    Dubyasux spews:

    jpgee @ 56

    Actually, I thought “” was both funny and original, tho probably more apropos for a web site run by our righty friends.

  67. 92

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 61

    The difference between Goldy and Stefan is that Goldy is honest enough to admit he’s a propagadanist while Stefan pretends to be something he’s not — an objective journalist concerned with facts.

  68. 93

    John spews:

    Chris @ 88

    Look at TJ’s recent comments. You make 2 or 3 three assertions that aren’t backed up by anything because you’re too lazy to link or you can’t remember the winger publication or website where you read it.

    Your technique or what passes for one is to accuse your opponents of what you yourself are guilty. This is called projection.

    You claim everything you post is backed up by facts – so prove it. Answer TJ’s comments.

  69. 96

    Chee spews:

    John@72. You have put it squarely on the head. The sharing of facts and opposing views is what makes for interesting and productive debate. The trashy childish postings found running thread after thread obviously display the disturbed state of mind at work and it has reached the bottom level of thinking. Surfers, trolls and readers come to view HA, seeing the lack of maturity, lack of respect and lack of common sense displayed by posters is out of hand and a real turnoff. Yes, Don and others have hung in, taking far more degenerated slams, slop, slime and abuse than deserved. Goldy has a good thing going. Time to pull the weeds and mulit-screen name’s option.

  70. 97

    John spews:

    Dubyasux @ 92

    I don’t think the Snark has ever bragged that he was a “journalist”. However, Snark arrogantly claimed on KVI that even though Goldy was a “sweet guy”, Goldy was “not qualified” to be a “news blogger”.

    Snark – a legend in his own mind indeed.

  71. 98

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 73

    I will, by and large, skip over your factual misrepresentations (e.g., many of those “hundreds of felons” were juvenile offenders who did not lose their voting rights) and merely reiterate that everything that went wrong with this election is irrelevant unless it changed the outcome, with the burden on Rossi to prove it did.

  72. 99

    Chris spews:

    TJ and John,

    Why would I have the answers to my questions of you? It is not I that says all things are normal, it is you. How do you arrive at that conclusion? What facts support that. You answer the questions, you do the research (it must be done already – or how did you arrive at the conclusion?) I acknowledge errors happen, you say these are normal and then make excuses that; well maybe there a little worse then normal but remember we had a lot of ballots, record turnout, Blah Blah Blah.

    Here’s the point: the lead is 129 votes, the errors far out way this margin of victory. Regardless if errors are normal or not when the errors far out way the margin of victory they are bigger problems. The size or impact of the problem is in direct relation to the size of the margin of victory. So quite with the 2% this and .5 % that. None of it matters. It’s down to hard numbers not percentages. Percentages only make you feel better they don’t address anything. How many of the other elections that experience these same problems, as you insist is the case but can’t support with fact, have had these errors, been greater then conservatively 10 times the margin of victory. I am sure you can find lots of elections where the errors were 1/10 the margin of victory but not 10 TIMES. That is the point you keep missing and glossing over. Even if I accept the number you put out of 500 votes that is still over 3 times the margin of victory. Politics aside – CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THAT??????? It is clear that in this election the identified problems could have had an impact on the result. We know for sure that Gregoire did not win by 129 votes. Maybe she won by 700 votes or maybe, just maybe, she LOST. You don’t know the answer but don’t care if the governor is the truly elected one or not. If Rossi was in under these circumstances you would have to be sedated, you would be so crazed.

  73. 100

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chee @ 70

    I’m not saying the war was a good idea, although I will say that if our government gets involved in a war I’d prefer that it be run by someone who knows what they’re doing rather than a bunch of incompetents, but if anybody on this planet needs killing Saddam is an awfully good candidate. Just shoot him. I’d pull the trigger myself.

  74. 101

    Diggindude spews:


    In Chicago, a study by the local Board of Election Commissioners found that from 12.8% to 36.7% of ballots cast in 125 precincts did not register a vote for president

    Voting equipment functioned so poorly in Georgia that 95,000 ballots, or about 4% of the total cast, did not tally a vote for president. By comparison, in Rhode Island, Delaware and Oklahoma, which use new electronic or optical-scan systems, about 1% of all ballots failed to count a presidential vote.

    The Portland snafu stemmed from officials’ attempts to update registration rolls. Some 14,000 of 25,000 cards sent out to verify voters’ addresses were returned as undeliverable. Many of those cards simply were misaddressed, but thousands of names were purged from the rolls anyway. Another 540 voters were wiped out by a clerical error.

    Thousands of voters who registered in various states under the 1993 motor-voter law never were put on the rolls because motor vehicle bureaus didn’t send registrations to election offices.

    Tennessee resolved its motor-voter problem by adding the names of 1,500 new voters to the rolls on Election Day. Even so, Brook Thompson, state elections coordinator, says it’s unclear how many other new voters were turned away

    North Carolina:

    November’s high turnout only intensified problems with registration rolls. Poorly maintained voter-registration lists in St. Louis simply overwhelmed poll workers. They were swamped with demands for clarification, but a phone system set up for the election was inadequate. Polling places were still jammed with people waiting to vote when the polls closed

    The biggest failure resulted from a computer glitch that wiped out more than 4,400 votes in one county, while other disputes have focused on how to count provisional ballots. In another county, 12,000 early and absentee votes were misplaced because of a procedural error but later found.

    an electronic voting machine gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in an Ohio precinct where only 638 voters cast ballots highlights the problem.

    In Texas, “vote whores” do favors for people in return for their absentee ballots. Sometimes these “canvassers” or “consultants” simply buy the ballots. They also steal them from mailboxes.

    You get the point, go look yourself, instead of just covering your eyes and saying it isn’t happening.

  75. 102

    DamnageD spews:

    Dubyasux @ 94

    Thanks! We’re on similar pages of the same book…”How to bw an effective Liberal Pinko and effectly piss off the extremeist Right(wrong)”

    I’ve always been here…like a bad case of Herpes. When I show up, i’m a pain, and nothing short of death makes me go away, and I like to ruin your good time.

  76. 103

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 77

    Chris, errors DO happen in all elections (except very small ones), and the irregularities in Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 were MUCH worse than the problems in Washington. No, I’m not defending the errors by election workers or the illegal voting by individuals, but there certainly was no Democratic conspiracy to steal the election, and this was not a stolen election. If Rossi was robbed by errors and the illegal actions of individual voters, then let us hope the courts will straighten it out. I have always said on this blog that if Rossi won, I will accept him as my governor. I ask you the same question: If the outcome of the trial is that Gregoire did indeed get more legal votes than Rossi, will you accept her as the legitimate and duly elected governor of our state? Or will you storm off in a hissy fit and continue to rant against her?

    You also lose sight of a key fact about our state when you spew against King County. And that is, the county’s sheer size magnifies the apparent problems. Eastern Washington residents like to complain about voters in King County running the state, but Eastern Washington has only 22% of the state’s population, and King County has 35% of the state’s voters. When you adjust for the number of voters, King County’s 94 misplaced absentee ballots is the equivalent of 8 lost ballots in Yakima County or 2 lost ballots in Stevens County. To put another perspective on this, King County has more than 700 times as many voters as Garfield County, the state’s least populous county, and King County’s 94 ballots are equal to slightly over 1/10th of 1 vote in Garfield County.

  77. 104


    Chris said:
    “Even if I accept the number you put out of 500 votes that is still over 3 times the margin of victory. Politics aside – CAN YOU NOT SEE THE PROBLEM WITH THAT???????”

    That’s correct–I don’t see the problem with that. Since the “problem” you assert has little to do with the number of problems and everything to do with the margin of victory, what’s your plan–to prevent any future election from being close? I once again refer you to the comments of the Asst SoS (a Republican), who said the only reason the problems are serious is because of the closeness of the election. The problems themselves are minor. Their seriousness is tied entirely to a situation that is 100% out of the control of the state. A close election is the doing of the electorate, not the state of Washington or the county of King.

    I suspect your rationale may hinge on the erroneous assumption that errors beyond the margin of victory somehow have relevance to an election contest. They don’t, as state law makes quite clear. Their potential impact is grounds for HEARING the contest, but it is their ACTUAL impact that is grounds for WINNING the contest. I refer you to RCW 29A.68.070 and .110 for the particulars. Once you’ve read them, I’d be happy to discuss any comments you have on them.

  78. 105

    Dubyasux spews:

    TJ @ 80

    Chris is also conveniently glossing over the 1,796 unchecked provisional votes from 4 Rossi counties.

  79. 106

    Chee spews:

    Dubyasux@100. I was not disappointed to see the capture of such a ruthless, sadistic and warped control-freak, a mass killer who thought nothing of human life should be brought down whether it be his life be taken or life not spared, he indeed sowed what he he needs to reap. An eye for an eye anda tooth for a tooth!

  80. 107


    DS @ 105
    He is, but they were not “unchecked”–they were not signature matched. The names matched the voter database. I choose to speculate about likely invalid provisionals, of which there likely aren’t that many in that group.

  81. 108

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 99

    The number of eligible voters purged from Florida’s election rolls by Republican officials in 2000 was more than 100 times Bush’s margin of victory, yet wingnuts like you have consistently and constantly denigrated Democrats’ complaints about Florida. Do I smell a whiff of hypocrisy in your comments?

  82. 109

    Chris spews:


    First of all I acknowledged a 1000 times that problem happen during elections.

    What is your point it your post? Are you saying problems happen and just live with it? Are you saying those problems happened and the margin of victory was so close that the result of those elections is in doubt? Are you saying that because nobody did anything about those problems in Chicago, NC, Tennessee, Portland, etc, that we have to accept it in Washington State?

    Which election where problems were identified, as I acknowledged now for time 1001 happen, did the problems put in doubt the result? Which one had a problem count that exceeded the margin of victory by many, many times? And if the losing party chose in those cases not to contest the result, does that mean the problems didn’t happen or that the true winner was ever identified? Or that we should, in Washington State, take comfort that other places have people in office that may not have truly been elected and just accept it and feel good about it?

  83. 110

    Dubyasux spews:

    DamnageD @ 102

    “How to bw an effective Liberal Pinko and effectly piss off the extremeist Right(wrong)”

    Oh, that’s easy to do — treat them exactly the same way they treat us. Like all bullies, righty blowhards are cowards and weaklings who can’t take their own medicine. A little nose bloddying sends them crying to mama.

  84. 111

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 109

    Yes, we do live with election errors, because perfection is unattainable. At the same time, we try to eliminate errors as much as possible. And you’d better believe the 2000 result was in doubt, but the fact remains that Bush was given the office and Democrats lived with it.

  85. 112

    Chris spews:

    Don@105 & 108

    105 – thanks for reminding me. that just adds more credibility to the argument that this election is screwed up.
    108 – You did not indicate where you arrived at this number. Am I to assume because you say it is accurate that it is? Also, what does that have to do with this election? Becasue you feel the R’s fucked the D’s in Florida, you are okay with the situation in Washington? You cannot bitch about Florida and then pretend all is well in Washington. If what you say is true in Florida, where is the lawsuit? Where is the public outrage, other then here on HA? Where are the documented cases of people being taken off the roles that should not have been? If the democrats or republicans illegally removed me from the voting roles I would be in court suing them.

    TJ and others – I am not claiming Rossi won, I am claiming nobody knows who won and that is a problem. And yes if the election is close in the future these errors would also have an impact. You guys sound ridiculous. You want it to be the same thing; an election with a huge margin of victory and errors being made and an election with a very narrow margin of victory and erros being made. They are not the same thing and anytime an election margin is less then the number of identified errors you have a problem. I am sorry you guys don’t see it that way but that is only because Gregoire is in the office.

  86. 113

    John spews:

    Chris @ 99

    Well there seems to be an outline of an argument there. Beats just plain insults and slander.

    And once again you’re avoiding the central issue. The Rossi people have to “prove” that the errors swayed the election in Gregoire’s favor.

    We know that many felons voted for Rossi – they have to be subtracted from Rossi’s total.

    We know that dead people voted for Rossi – they have to be subtracted from Rossi’s total.

    We know that some double votes went for Rossi – they have to be subtracted from Rossi’s total.

    And on and on… The same applies to Gregoire.

    What you’re saying is that just because there were more errors than the margin of victory we should set aside the election and give it to Rossi. This is bullshit. Sorry no can do. It has to be proven how these errors benefited both sides and adjust accordingly. The law says Dino Rossi has to prove he actually won the election.

    Everything I’ve seen so far leads me to conclude that Rossi won’t prevail in court. I could be wrong. If so then Dino Rossi will be governor.

    Chris it’s really ironic when one considers how much energy you’ve put in claiming here and on (u)SP that Rossi really won this election. If you had put just a tenth of that energy into manning a phone bank or knocking on doors to get lazy R’s to the polls on election day, Dino Rossi would be governor. What did you do Chris besides vote or cut a check to the WSRP?

  87. 114

    Chris spews:

    Don@111 – Doubt in the margin of victory is obvious. Very rarely will the certified margin of victory be accurate, because of the problems we all agree happen. So there is always doubt as to how much a canidate really won by. That is acceptable doubt. What is not acceptable doubt is doubt as to which canidate really won. Again, not by how much they won by but the fact of if they won at all. That is what you are confusing, doubt of if the vistory was 10,000 votes or 10,003 votes and doubt of actual winning canidate.

  88. 115

    Goldy spews:

    ProudAss @48,

    There is no other word in the English language that can provide the same sort of emotional, rhetorical (and sometimes, comedic) emphasis as the word “fuck,” in it’s non-literal, adjectival form. That I should not avail myself of the service of this, and other such powerful words, simply to appeal to the prudish “linguistic correctness” of non-writers like you, is a joke.

    In High School, an English teacher kept subtracting points from my essays and short stories, whenever I started a sentence with a conjunction. And I continued to start sentences with a conjunction, because the integrity of my prose was more important to me than getting the grade I deserved. So you can imagine how little value I place on your literary criticism.

    As an artist, you must understand the rules before you break them. I understand the rules.

    Cynical @53,

    Again, I don’t publish my stats, for a number of reasons… not the least of which being that webstats are notoriously misleading. But I think it is fair to say that there is only one blog focusing on WA state politics that receives higher traffic than HA. That is admittedly, (u)SP. While I would prefer that the situation be reversed, my current traffic is beyond my wildest dreams.

  89. 116

    Chris spews:


    Again, You miss my point. I have never said that Rossi won this election. I am not saying he should be Governor. What I am saying is you, I and everyother voter in this state don’t know who won this election. I don’t want Rossi put in as Governor. I want a new election, where an actual winner can be confidently identified. And yes if it’s close again, the problems better not outway the margin of victory for either canidate. I would prefer Rossi as Governor but what I really would prefer is that the person that the people elected to office holds the office, Gregoire, Rossi, whoever it is as long as that person is the rightful winner. Again, if Rossi was in under these circumstances you would be having a shit fit. All I think reasonable people want is confidence that those holding public office are there rightfully. I am not sure about what the law will allow in terms of the contest, I know Bridges can’t order a new election, the Legislature can though.I believe he must decide a winner, and if he decides Rossi proves his case and he is Governor, Rossi should resign and let a new election happen. The law and partisan politics aside for a minute, if you could do anything to fix this what in your opinion would be the right thing to do. Mine is to hold a new election.

  90. 117

    Diggindude spews:

    youre halfway home,
    you wanted some backup, i gave it to you.
    You admit there are errors in all elections, very good.
    Yet, you want to exclude this election from all others, because its close.
    Not good.
    If you want to vote by microchip implant, then we’ll get accuracy.
    Until then, we will have a margin for error.
    We accept the margin of error, until our guy loses in a close race.
    You ready for a chip implant?
    I’m not.
    Blood sample?
    How about a purple finger? Still gonna be errors.
    You cant accept 2% errors in the u.s. elections, and claim 0% errors in washington.
    Whats it gonna be, double standard chris?

  91. 118


    chris, holding another election fixes nothing, and introduces far more problems. You cannot hold another election for governor 2004; the people that voted in it cannot be reassembled. Since you admit it’s possible this “new election” could create exactly the same perfectly unknown result as the last one, what the hell is the point?

  92. 119

    John spews:

    Chris @ 112

    Nope sorry you only get a shot once every four years for governor. We can’t afford calling new elections just because we feel like it. That’s mob rule.

    If Rossi prevails in court, he’s the governor because the law says he “proved” that he actually won. If the Judge Bridges and the Supremes can sleep with that decision then I can support it.

    Rossi resigning would be grandstanding and political posturing and would signal to me that all he cares about is consolidating the Republican base in this state. Screw that. Dino, if you wanted it that bad – you should have it.

  93. 120

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    Goldy at 115

    I agree – there are few words that invoke the same emphasis as your hands-down favorite.

    However, using it continuously as you do, as Donny boy does dilutes its theatric impact.

    Nice try though.

  94. 121

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    Continuing with Goldy at 115

    I would think you’d be better served investing your beer money in a really good thesaurus so you could really WOW your readers, catch their eye and MAKE THEM THINK with words that would be clearly unfamiliar to them.

    And it certainly wouldn’t hurt your credibility as an adult.

  95. 122

    VCRW spews:

    Honestly, Stefan looked serious and you came off as petty with your Time Eyeman bit. Wasn’t that how you wanted to look?

  96. 123

    dj spews:

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE @ 48 said:

    “four letter words” don’t make anyone sound “serious”. They are not clever, cool, ingenious or attractive.
    “Four letter words” make the user sound childish and unintelligent…
    “Four letter words” make the user sound uncouth and rude.
    “Four letter words” make it clear the user has little respect for the person who hears them and less respect for himself.
    “Four letter words” make the user sound crass, uneducated, lazy and unprepared.
    “Four letter words” quickly alert folks that nothing of value is coming.
    Comment by MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE

    This shit from someone whose name implies a blow job??????
    Wow. . . that’s fucked up.

  97. 124

    Chee spews:

    @120. You must of had your head in the sand. Goldy and Don have never had a corner on the the F word, share the wealth pal! The odd thing about the big F word is that it is okay to do it if you don’t say it. If you say it there is a giant stigma attached, if you do it there is no stigma. Hmmm? Then FUCK IT if you can’t win for losing!

  98. 125

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    WOW cheet – how mature.

    Impress your bubble gum chewing pals, did you?

  99. 126

    chardonnay spews:

    I wonder what that Blue Ribbon commission will find? I hope the special election ballots don’t get mixed up with the Nov election ballots. That would just be messy. Ron Sims must be crapping his pants right now and that to is messy and does not show good house training.

  100. 127

    Chee spews:

    VCRW@122. Goldy came off in your view as “petty.” How petty is that? You fail to recognize politics at it’s best takes poetic justice!

  101. 128

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    Char, deposition angst is ratcheting UP – the pet libs are becoming increasingly frenetic and amusing.

    God, I hope one of my phamaceutical stocks includes anti-depressants.

  102. 129

    Diggindude spews:

    “That’s a different tune than Ron Sims was singing when he said the county had an accuracy rate any bank would envy,” said Mary Lane, spokesman for the Rossi campaign. “It’s an unfortunate waste of money that they actually need to bring all these people to teach them how to coiunt ballots and conduct an election.”
    “Enron did not audit themselves,” said Councilman David Irons, a Republican.

    GeeZ! who’s gonna cry now?

  103. 130

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    You fail to recognize politics at it’s best takes poetic justice! -Comment by Chee— 4/11/05 @ 1:29 pm


    Nice gobbledygook but can you translate it?

  104. 132

    MAYBEDubyasuxbutDonistheSUCKEE spews:

    WOW cheet – how mature.

    Impress your bubble gum chewing pals, did you?

  105. 134

    Chris spews:


    You gave me back up? You gave examples of other states problems. Where did you give back-up as to what is normal in a Washington state election, or any election for that matter. How come you don’t consider any of the examples you gaves as normal/typical of an election. Your point seems to be in those cases you cite, that someone was screwed, that their vote was not counted and there was nothing normal about it. Or are you ok with what you say happened in your examples? You can’t have it both ways; list off examples of errors and be pissed that they happened and then be content with the errors in this election. You also cannot say that these errors happen all the time and the only difference this time is the closeness and not show that these errors happen all the time. I agree errors happen, but to this degree? This many? Doubtful, you insist it true so prove it. It is your claim that this was a normal election prove it. Do I have to list the questions for you again?

  106. 135

    Chris spews:

    Then what is the point in ever holding another election ever again for anything. If fear of it being close scares you why don’t we just let you decide for us all, on every issue on every position. Ridiculous. You don’t, not have an election because it might be close and you might have to do the hard work of reconciling votes and identifying problems to arrive at the right answer. If the dems have their way no election reform will occur and we could face this type of situation countless times. What is wrong with getting it right? You are all ok with this now because Gregoire is on office.

    John@119 – “Nope sorry you only get a shot once every four years for governor. We can’t afford calling new elections just because we feel like it. That’s mob rule.”

    Is that really true John? Has there never been an election that was legally tossed out? Is there no conceivable, legal way for a new election in this case? Of course there is and you know it. No one is calling for a new election “just because we feel like it” and this too you know. We will all find out soon if there are legal grounds for a new election in this case. Your opinion is no, we’ll see what the judge and legislature thinks. And remember you don’t want Rossi to resign the office if he is deemed by Bridges to be the winner, so don’t bitch if he doesn’t.

    One more time: If Rossi was in office and Gregoire was the challenger you would all be singing a different tune, this is known as hypocrisy.

  107. 136

    Diggindude spews:

    “There were no more errors in this race, than there were in any other race,”

    More ranting and no facts – typical of you.
    For once back it up! Don’t just says it’s so. What specifics do you have?
    Time to deliver here DD, otherwise people might start thinking you don’t know what you are talking about. Or should we just accept that if you say it is gospel?

    Comment by Chris

    Your questions are moot, when you realize errors fall within accepted limits, which are determined by averaging all errors in all races. You as well as all other accusers, have no idea how many errors there are. All you know, is whats been thrown around as fact, and none of that so far, is completely credible.
    I answered what you asked, to the point it was irrelevant.

  108. 137


    chris @ 135
    You have left the land of sense. I have no idea what your comment to me means. My point was simple–if you allow that another election for governor 2004 (with different people voting and 6 months of history now relevant to the election) could end up exactly the same way as this one…what’s the point? By your desire, we’d have to throw that one out as well. I’m not the one who’s scared of close elections–YOU ARE. I’m fine with this one being close. You’re the one who seems to have a problem with it.

    “If the dems have their way no election reform will occur…” Then why is the state GOP the party that is obstructing reform bills??

  109. 138

    Chris spews:

    Since you are such a fan of percentages and what acceptable percentages are I have another question for you?
    You say 2% is acceptable. I assume you mean an error rate of 2% of the ballots cast. What is the acceptable error rate (%) of errors as a percentage of margins of victory? Isn’t that the real important %? Who cares what the error rate is compared to ballots cast? It doesn’t mean shit. People do not win elections by the number of ballots cast. They are elected by getting more votes. Nice diversion tactic on your part but it doesn’t cut it. I would accept a 2% error rate as a % of margin of victory, shoot I would take an error rate of 20% at this point. But we have an error rate (if I use the 500 votes conceded by your side earlier) of 385%. Call me crazy but this is not acceptable.

    Under your thought process (2% of ballots cast error rate is acceptable) the following would occur:

    Example #1
    1,000,000 total votes
    30,000 vote errors as a % of ballots cast (3%) UNACCEPTABLE to you
    375,000 votes for Candidate “A’
    625,000 votes for Candidate “B”
    250,000 vote margin of victory for “B’”

    But the error rate is unacceptable? Do you throw out the election? You can’t allow an election to go with a 3 % error rate. Make the error rate in this example 4%, 5% , 6%.
    The errors are only 12% of the margin of victory but you would have a problem with this result.

    You see now why error rate as a % of ballots cast is meaningless? It only matters as a percentage of margins of victory. I would accept this result in the above example. Would I be happy with 30,000 vote error? NO but it would not be “Significant” to the election result. Remember Margin of victory was 250,000 votes. I would tell them to clean there shit up and they are lucky the race was not close or there could be some pissed off voters, understandably so.

    Example #2
    1,000,000 total votes
    500 vote errors as a % of ballots cast(.05%) ACCEPTABLE to you
    499,935 votes for Candidate “A’
    500,065 votes for Candidate “B”
    130 vote margin of victory for “B’

    In this example you are fine with the result? But not in the first example. Again, it is all based upon Margins of Victory, not ballots cast. Even though we have 385% more errors then margin of victory you are fine with leaving well enough alone?

  110. 139

    Chris spews:

    TJ – @118 you stated “Since you admit it’s possible this “new election” could create exactly the same perfectly unknown result as the last one, what the hell is the point?

    To which I responded that the outcome being close is not a reason to not hold an election. I don’t fear close elections, I am concerned over election resuts that are uncertain and your desire to keep the status quo.

    Here are a few points the dems want taken out of election reform:
    Showing of ID at Polling places
    No review of county election procedures every three years by S.S.
    No random investigation of voter rolls

    I could go on and on and on but you won’t care anyway. I would be wasting my time.

  111. 140

    reggie spews:

    Goldy…saw the tv spot…

    you came across as an ass. So maybe you should just leave the name of the website the same. If you took pot shots at both parties you’d be a better blog that USP. C’mon admit it….Berendt and Vance are both assholes. Neither party has a stranglehold on the truth.

    Despite my views on the election (Chrissy didn’t win it) I still maintain that we should not pull chrissy out of office. Her political career is over. Let her finish out her term and then remind everyone what promises she didn’t keep (no new taxes) She wasn’t in office a month before she back-peddled on that one.

    So far she hasn’t done anything to prove to me that she is better for this state than Dino. And I doubt she ever will.

    I’m still lovin that spam tax tho’.

  112. 141

    Goldy spews:

    Reggie @140,

    I have so much time in the day to post blogs here, and there are dozens of topics every day I’d like to cover, but don’t. So why should I criticize Democrats, when there are right-wing blogs who have already mined that territory… and there is sooooo much to criticize coming from the GOP?

  113. 142

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 112

    “You do not indicate where you arrived at this number.”

    Bush won in Florida by 537. Numerous news accounts put the number of alleged “felons” purged from the rolls at around 57,700, the vast majority of whom later were determined to be eligible voter. In many cases, they were purged because they had a name somewhat similar to that of a felon, for example, John Smith was kicked off the rolls because Johnny Smith committed a crime.

    There are many, many sources available on the internet about the botched Florida felon purge. Here a few representative samples:


    “After the Supreme Court closed the door to recounts, President Bush edged then-Vice President Al Gore in Florida by a margin of 537 votes, enough to win the state and, with it, the White House.

    “‘Florida’s 2000 felon purge program resulted in over 50,000 legal voters being disenfranchised,’ said Leon County elections supervisor Ion Sancho in a written statement.”

    Washngton Post:

    “The Tampa residents were among hundreds, perhaps thousands, of non-felons in Florida who civil rights lawyers contend were wrongly prevented from voting in the Nov. 7 election after state election officials and a private contractor bungled an attempt to cleanse felons from voter rolls.”

    Wikipedia provides a detailed article on the bungled 2000 Florida felon purge at:

    The U.S. Civil Rights Commission report on Florida’s 2000 voting problems is here:

  114. 143

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 114

    Are you saying who won Florida in 2000 wasn’t in doubt? Of course it was in doubt, that’s why recounts were conducted and lawsuits were filed. It was Bush, by the way, who went to court first — that’s why the Supreme Court case is captioned “Bush v. Gore.” Washington’s governor’s election is now also in court. You have repeatedly claimed on this board that the election is invalid because the errors and illegal votes exceed Gregoire’s margin of victory. There is no legal basis for this statement whatsoever. Nor is there any legal standard called “acceptable doubt.” What you refer to as “acceptable doubt” is a subjective evaluation in your own mind. Basically what you are saying is you will refuse to accept the legitimacy of Gregoire’s election victory even if she is upheld by the courts, because you have a subjective doubt in your mind. How very civic of you. The legal standard is whether errors and/or illegal votes changed the outcome. As other have pointed out, invalid votes have to be subtracted from Rossi’s total and Gregoire’s total, and the court can set aside the election only if it appears Rossi won after doing this math. Theoretically, there could be 10,003 errors, but if 5,065 were in Gregoire’s favor and 4,938 were in Rossi’s favor, a net difference of 127, Rossi still lost and is not entitled to have the election invalidated.

  115. 144

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 116

    We don’t know who won the presidential election either, because there are still unanswered questions about Ohio irregularities. But “knowing” to the degree of certainty and in the vernacular sense that you are demanding is IRRELEVANT. In Washington, as in the presidential race, we have an official result which is binding for all legal purposes, subject only to legal challenges. Although legal challenges are still pending in Ohio, none can change the result. The pending legal challenge in Washington COULD overturn the election, but in the meantime, we “know” who won, because the official result is binding unless and until a final court ruling sets it aside. Gregoire is not the acting governor or interim governor, she is the elected governor.

  116. 145

    DamnageD spews:

    Oh lordy, I think im going into a diabetic coma. I figured I’d take a look at the USP…and everybodys so sweet and fuzzy. No crass laungage, no personal attacks, everybody gets along so well, it reminds me of…a sorority! They take themselves too seriously, and confuse HA with a Liberal truth factory.

    And how funny the comments about the KING 5 “Up Front”. Out of context…”they use curse words, no wonder they dont get more hits” . Goldy, I gotta hand it to ya, if HA weren’t a success, then why, pray tell, would your site generate so much more dialog? Is it because they’re soOOoo right, theres no need to do more that stroke each others cocks? I think not.

    Heres a news flash for ya…it’s a blog, ya damn fools! Nothing but OPINIONS, like assholes…they all smell.

  117. 148

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 138

    Now you’re starting to think like a judge, but your answer is still incomplete. Taking your Example 2, if this is all you have — a 130 vote margin of victory and 500 errors — then, no, under Washington law that’s NOT enough to throw out the election. You actually need only 131 errors, provided they changed the result. Or you could have 50,000 errors and you wouldn’t throw out the election, if the errors didn’t change the result. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

  118. 149

    Dubyasux spews:

    Chris @ 139

    “Here are a few points the dems want taken out of election reform:
    Showing of ID at Polling places
    No review of county election procedures every three years by S.S.
    No random investigation of voter rolls”

    Democratic legislators are, in fact, supporting the first two of these three items.

  119. 151

    Diggindude spews:

    Lok, we know there are going to be errors. We know before every election, there will be errors.
    We accept the fact we know there will be errors.
    If we didn’t, we would be voting with dna print, and dyed fingers.
    We made laws, to address the outcome of close elections, “BECAUSE WE KNOW THERE WILL BE ERRORS”, and a close election contest, would go on forever, (see: vance and rossi),
    had we “NOT” addressed close races with laws.
    We counted, recounted, and recounted a final “LEGAL” time, to come up with what we accept as the winner “BY LAW”.
    Barring any “REAL” fraud, and without a way to show “ILLEGAL” votes changed the outcome, you are stuck, like we were in 2000.
    We’ll see in may how much bullshit the republicans made up trying to show fraud. Personally, I think most everything they’ve alleged to this point is bullshit.

  120. 152

    Chee spews:

    diggindude@151. To insure a no flaw election, the next thing the right-wingers propose will be the installing of brain scanners at all polling places, thus requiring a chip be implanted in every voter’s head so they can watch heads roll like a loaf of Wonderbread at Albertson’s quick check stand.

  121. 153

    PET LIBS are too expensive to own! spews:

    I repeat my question…

    If Dipsy mates with Chee…

    will their spawn be a CheeseDoodle?

  122. 154

    Diggindude spews:

    former “gwdummy sucks dons cock@53
    I liked your gwdummy cocksucker name better, what happened you embarrassed over it?

  123. 155

    PET LIBS are too expensive to own! spews:

    Dipsy Doodle hangin in the gutter again.

    Isn’t it past your bedtime?

    The only insult you and or DonnyDrunk could possibly hurl that would be insulting would be the epithet…LIBERAL.

  124. 157

    reggie spews:

    Goldy @141

    Because real debate starts when you realize the weakness in your own arguments. Personally, I come here to learn from you about the liberal point of view. The bloggers on this site seems to be more informed than say that doofus Mike Webb or that nitwit Dori Monson. (talk radio is meant to entertain not inform)

    That being said I have some advice for you. (it was given to me after an incident that reminded me of you)

    Your lack of experience before a camera (news camera) was glaring. You got screwed but you did it to yourself. You gave them the soundbites they were looking for. Obviously stephan has more experience in this venue than you do. And it showed. Next time you get a chance to be on TV….pass.

  125. 158

    John spews:

    Chris @ 135

    You’re contradicting yourself Chris. @116 you said if Bridges gives the governorship to Rossi he should resign and a new election should be held. Bullshit on that. That is “calling an election because he feels like it”. I’m fine with sitting Judges taking the heat for their decisions. I can live with that.

    Again if Rossi went to all this trouble and expense to contest the election and won then he get the governorship – he gets the hot seat and he has to live with it. No scurrying off to run another grandstanding popularity contest and slander-fest on TV to cultivate his image. That’s bullshit. After all this crap, that fool had better govern.

    The legislature might be able to call a new election but if the legislature is in the hands of the D’s I highly doubt they’d go along.

    If the tables were turned I wouldn’t care. I’d say let Dino Rossi carry out his BIAW dominated agenda and suffer the consequences. I call bullshit on your “hypocrisy” garbage.

    So get your fantasies straight.

  126. 159

    M spews:

    Yes, G-man, I think you can be proud of your traffic here. I’m not in your political camp by any means, but you have to know there are lots of blogs out there with nowhere near the traffic you get. Pretty good, I’d say, trafficwise. Now you just have to get rid of all the swearing and your traffic will increase a little more!