Hey State GOP: Good Job Not Embarrassing Yourself

On Friday, the day before the caucuses here, former Mike McGavick staffer Timothy Goddard gave this as one of the reasons why the Republican base should STFU and just support McCain:

Point two–A McCain loss will embarass the Washington State Republican Party

Particularly when McCain coasts to an easy victory in the primary on the 19th. It will demonstrate that the local party activists and caucus-goers are woefully out of touch with the Washington State Republicans who actually supply the votes. Remember those? They’re important. Now, it may be true that we activists are out of touch, and if it is, we need to figure out how we can rectify that situation. But personally, I’d rather it were not pointed out in such blatant fashion.

Because of the timing of our caucus and primary, and that of recent political events, we’re a party uniquely positioned to embarrass itself. That’s one opportunity I sincerely hope to avoid taking. Our party needs to gain influence over the voters of this state, both friendly and otherwise, and caucusing for Huckabee will diminish it, instead.

I went to a Democratic caucus on Saturday. It was chaotic and even frustrating at times, but one thing that I can’t complain about was whether or not it was democratic (in the small ‘d’ sense). It most certainly was. The initial presidential preferences were tallied, the amount of delegates chosen were based strictly upon the amount of support there was for each candidate. As I slowly heard what had been happening at the Republican caucuses, I noticed that things weren’t happening the same way. I think Timothy Killian is correct in his explanation here:

The rules of the Washington State Republican Party Caucus states that “there is no formal system applied in the Precinct Caucuses to relate the presidential preference of the Caucus participants to the choice of the precinct’s delegates.” In other words, unlike most other caucuses wherein delegates are tied in some formal way to the preferences of caucus attendees, each individual precinct was free to determine their delegate in any manner they chose. (See here).

As a result, a given precincts presidential preferences could break out this way:

Huckabee: 10
McCain: 8
Paul: 3
But, their delegates, which are unrelated to the above preferences, could break out this way:

Huckabee: 1
McCain: 2
Paul: 1

Pudge’s post at Sound Politics that Goldy references below seems to confirm this. Unlike the Democratic caucuses where the delegates were apportioned by support, at the Republican caucuses (from the link above):

There is no formal system applied in the Precinct Caucuses to relate the presidential preference of the Caucus participants to the choice of the precinct’s delegates. The participants at each Precinct Caucus alone determine if presidential preference is to be a factor in such choice and, if so, how it is to be applied.

In other words, the mathematical formula that Democrats used to determine delegate apportionment doesn’t seem to exist on the Republican side. If you look at the overall results, it looks like most of the Republican caucuses sent delegates who more-or-less represented the voters of their precinct, but there are definitely more than a few cases where Republican caucusers are claiming that they were “shut out” of the process:

Kim Davis, for example, said she felt like proper procedures weren’t followed at her precinct.

Davis, 47, a Huckabee supporter, said caucus-goers at her table were not given the opportunity to make the case for their candidate nor to vote on who among them would get to be delegates.

“Several McCain supporters just decided for the table and filled out the form,” she said. “I got bamboozled.”

The social conservatives in the Republican Party have long been bamboozled by the corporate bigwigs who actually run it, but it’s interesting to watch the bamboozlement happen at the grass roots level.

I’m definitely arriving at the same conclusion as Killian:

In summation, it may very well be that Huckabee won Washington State. Or maybe McCain won. At this point, we have no way of knowing. What we do know is this: Luke Esser is willfully mispresenting the results of the Washington State Republican Caucuses.

The entire media world has now reported that John McCain was the winner in Washington, but that result is not based on the actual results of the caucus preferences.

I invite the media to more closely scrutinize this.

I second that.

UPDATE: From commenter ‘rhp6033′ in the thread below (and I apologize for sending Christmasghost towards another mental breakdown there…), King5’s Robert Mak is looking into irregularities in the Snohomish County vote:

One Snohomish County caucus chairman told KING 5 that the delegate preferences are “dramatically different” than the attendee counts.

The Snohomish County Republican Party does not have the delegate preferences from many of its caucuses and is working to obtain them.

Comments

  1. 2

    jj spews:

    IS there anything in the Democrat rules to prevent a delegate from changing who they are for at the county convention?

  2. 3

    spews:

    you know, the six years that i lived in wa. state i never actually met anyone that i would consider a republican. i met a lot of far right nuts that parroted rush, and then there were the rinos like carlson. not an impressive bunch.
    i realize that you are stuck with what you are stuck with up in wa. state but, they are not republicans. real republicans care about the environment,as well as taxes, government and people….the list goes on and on.
    i must say, i never in my life met so many politically correct racists though as i did in wa. state….. BUT,they “just” hated indians.so i guess that doesn’t count, right? and they were democrats….like most of the western part of the state.
    can any of you tell me why now is the time for a black president? if we are going on pecking order….don’t you think we should be looking for a native american president? how about hispanic? chinese? these are all much larger groups of people that weren’t exactly treated well EITHER…..

  3. 4

    JamesA spews:

    Xmas: “can any of you tell me why now is the time for a black president?”

    I could give a rats ass if the color of the candidates skin is green and they come from Uranus. What I care about is that they have good ideas and can move past the partisan politics of the last 16 years.

    Obama is that candidate and he also happens to be black. His race, however, has nothing to do with it.

  4. 5

    Inside christmasghost's mind spews:

    [well, what can I blather about on this post….? Oh, i know! I’ll try to distance the incompitant disfunction of the Republicans from the WSRP caucus fiasco by saying that Washington State Republicans aren’t really Republicans at all! Brilliant.. i am so CLEVER!}

    [BUT I can’t stop there… I will allege that all the democrats in Wa state hate native Americans! YES! …. then I will get all philosophical and ask why the democrats have chosen a black man to be the first president… and then ask why not a chinese, or hispanic or native american first president. Yes! Of course that is completely off the wall non sequitor crazy talk, but every post I make is so bat shit crazy, so know one will notice!}

    {Yes, I am brilliant and beautiful! And my movie star handsome blow up doll husband thisnk so too!}

    {I’m so pretty! I’m so pretty!… and brilliantly insane!}

  5. 6

    spews:

    @4
    James, it’s a bit of projection on her part. Christmasghost has been known to get caught up in her own subtle racism:

    http://effinunsound.com/?p=312

    So in order to calm the cognitive dissonance in her head, all she can do is scream hysterically about how the Democrats are so racist. And if they’re electing a black man, it must be because of guilt or some other ulterior motive and not the obvious reason that we’re impressed with him as a candidate.

  6. 7

    spews:

    @5
    Wow, that’s a dangerous mental journey you just took. Hope you came out of it unscathed…

    And thank you.

  7. 8

    spews:

    lee….you know i just love you. you are just hysterical…..
    “subtle racism”. in other words.it’s so frickin’ “subtle” that you can’t even tell it’s there, because it isn’t.
    this is just sad on your part. the real racist is YOU.
    yes ,you honey….you are the one that plays the race card every time you want to promote drug legalization. cause you’re that “thinking, compassionate rich white kid” that used to buy drugs from minorities and then when you didn’t get arrested [because you slithered back to your chi chi neighborhood instead of standing in plain view on the corner of a bad one]and the dealers did get arrested [you know, for breaking the law] you screamed that the cops were all racists. even the black and hispanic ones.
    who is the real racist here? the white rich kid that took advantage of minorities so he could amuse himself…. or me, the person that points out your hypocracy to you?
    it’s a thinker alright…….
    those people got arrested because of you by your theories….
    so, if you care so much, why didn’t you go and turn yourself in and take some of the heat instead of just using minorities for your own amusement?
    and i am the “subtle” racist. well, by your standards i would rather be subtle [in other words not at all] that overt like yourself………

  8. 9

    rhp6033 spews:

    Of course, there was this article, reported by Postman on the day of the Republican Caucus, BEFORE Huckabee’s charges). (Quoted material in italics)

    Dateline: Seattle, February 9, 2008 12:57 PM

    A Republican Party official told a University of Washington blogger (covering the caucus as part of a class project) he was not allowed to talk to caucus goers outside a Seattle Public Library branch and threatened to have the young man removed by a sheriff’s deputy if he did not leave.

    Cadwallader said that as he was standing outside the Columbia Branch Library at Alaska Street and Rainier Avenue, he was approached by Ross Marzolf, the chairman of the 37th District Republicans. When the students were choosing their caucus sites to cover, Marzolf had told Cadwallader last week the students would not be welcome in the caucus because, “he just didn’t want anything written about the 37th….”

    UPDATE:
    I just spoke with Cadwallader again. He asked the branch librarian about whether the press could be barred from the building. They can’t. And the librarian told Marzlof that reporters would have to be allowed in.

    Before letting that happen, Marzolf stood on a chair in the room, Cadwallader said, and warned caucus participants that the press would soon be inside with them. Marzolf still said the reporters cannot talk to anyone inside and could not take any photographs. The no photo order was overruled by the librarian who said that was outside the Republican’s authority.

    Boy, you’ve got to wonder what those 37th District Republicans have planned today.

    Source: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsou.....aucus.html

    (Copyright Seattle Times, reprinted under fair use (blah, blah, blah….)

  9. 10

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    Why are so many of the people who post on the right-wing side of the debate on this blog so often incomprehensible?

    Maybe whatever kind of brain damage Bush has been evidencing is contagious.

  10. 11

    spews:

    @8
    you screamed that the cops were all racists

    You have 15 minutes to provide a link. If not, your comment will be deleted. I provided the link to when I caught you displaying racism. If you want to accuse me of saying something I allegedly said, provide the link.

    and i am the “subtle” racist. well, by your standards i would rather be subtle [in other words not at all] that overt like yourself………

    Again, provide the link within 15 minutes, or your comment will be deleted. Not slandering people is the #1 rule in these comment threads. I provided a link to the proof of your racism. If you’re going to try that accusation out on me, I want a link.

  11. 13

    GBS spews:

    @ 5.

    Brilliant. Right on the money.

    You know what makes Joshua’s post at 8 even funnier, she didn’t catch your point at 5 and made the same mistake again!!

    Baaa haaa haaa.

    No wonder why the wsrp and the rnc are so out of touch with reality and mainstream America.

  12. 14

    spews:

    lee…….sweetie, try not to get so upset. you already provided the link while “pimping” your site remember? i just assumed that it would include ALL of our discussions. you wouldn’t change anything would you? i mean…you would never be that dishonest would you?
    and if you are so against slander than i suggest you delete YLB’s comment above.
    try at least occasionally to be honest and fair okay?
    what? are you afraid that i made you look stupid and now you are looking for an excuse to get rid of it?
    that’s just pathetic……..
    this is hysperical…..”Not slandering people is the #1 rule in these comment threads”
    have you “broken” this news to goldy? he will be so sad…….oh wait…he calls it satire right?
    always a hidey hole…….

  13. 17

    spews:

    @13
    Link. 15 minutes. If it’s in a comment, just link to the main post and specify the comment number.

    this is hysperical…..”Not slandering people is the #1 rule in these comment threads”
    have you “broken” this news to goldy?

    It’s his rule, Einstein.

  14. 18

    rhp6033 spews:

    It looks like Postman’s instincts were right.

    About noon on Saturday, he posted an article online which detailed how a U.W. journalism student, tasked to cover a GOP caucus, was not only (a) barred from entry to the caucus, but (b) threatened with arrest if he didn’t leave from the public streets in front of the public library branch where the caucus was taking place, and attempting to speak to delegates entering and leaving the caucus.

    (Quoted Material in Italics)

    Cadwallader said that as he was standing outside the Columbia Branch Library at Alaska Street and Rainier Avenue, he was approached by Ross Marzolf, the chairman of the 37th District Republicans. When the students were choosing their caucus sites to cover, Marzolf had told Cadwallader last week the students would not be welcome in the caucus because, “he just didn’t want anything written about the 37th.”

    Cadwallader went there this morning to talk to Republicans on their way into the caucus. Marzolf approached him. Cadwallader told me:

    “He said, ‘No press is going to be allowed’ and then he said he’d really like it if I left. I said I understood but that I’m going to stay. And he said they had a deputy sheriff inside and he would have him come out and ask me to leave.”…

    UPDATE:
    I just spoke with Cadwallader again. He asked the branch librarian about whether the press could be barred from the building. They can’t. And the librarian told Marzlof that reporters would have to be allowed in.

    Before letting that happen, Marzolf stood on a chair in the room, Cadwallader said, and warned caucus participants that the press would soon be inside with them. Marzolf still said the reporters cannot talk to anyone inside and could not take any photographs. The no photo order was overruled by the librarian who said that was outside the Republican’s authority.

    Boy, you’ve got to wonder what those 37th District Republicans have planned today.

    (Copyrite Seattle Times, quoted under fair use, etc., etc., blah, blah).

    Well, I guess now we’ve got at least a clue about what was going on.

    Source: http://blog.seattletimes.nwsou.....aucus.html

  15. 20

    spews:

    lee….as i already said, it’s on your blog, you linked to it. i remember our conversations very well. and you kept claiming over and over the police JUST targeted minorities. and i pointed out they tended to target people breaking the law. but you couldn’t seem to grasp that concept….

    and if that’s goldy’s rule then someone should tell him that he breaks it about every other post…….
    but then, at least goldy isn’t the crybaby that deletes people when they make that certain person [lee] look stupid……..i give him great credit for that.
    delete away if you must. but it was on your blog and if you think that i want to slog my way through that crap again you are sadly mistaken.

  16. 23

    spews:

    @20
    What I claimed was that police OVERWHELMINGLY target minorities. This is also a well-known fact as was pointed out to you repeatedly by a number of people.

    I never once said that “cops are racists”. That’s a terrible oversimplification of what’s happening, but it’s what YOU WANT TO PRETEND I BELIEVE. As always, you are believing what you want to believe rather than the truth. And when that translates to accusations, that’s called slander.

    It’s been 15 minutes now.

  17. 24

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    @ 10, well for christmasghost and YO and klake (Roger TM) I blame the obvious meth addiction.

  18. 25

    spews:

    “The social conservatives in the Republican Party have long been bamboozled by the corporate bigwigs who actually run it”

    now, lee, isn’t this slander? yes it is. better delete it….

    and lee…….. people “who target minorities” are RACISTS you idiot.

  19. 26

    spews:

    @22
    I’m not going to delete your comment. It appears you’ve more quickly figured this shit out than it normally takes you (this is like the 4th time we’ve had to explain this to you).

  20. 27

    JamesA spews:

    ChristmasGhost – The only one looking stupid here is you. If I were Goldy, you would be allowed only a couple totally inane comments every day before you get booted off the site entirely. And you post several totally inane, incoherent rants every hour, so you can be glad this isn’t my site.

  21. 28

    spews:

    @25
    and lee…….. people “who target minorities” are RACISTS you idiot.

    Who’s targeting them? The officers themselves, or someone else holding public office? Oftentimes the decision to focus law enforcement resources in a certain area is made by a political official or someone else. In most cases, the cops aren’t racist, but simply doing what they’re ordered to do.

  22. 29

    spews:

    @25
    now, lee, isn’t this slander? yes it is. better delete it….

    No, you retard. Slander has to be against a specific person or group, not a vague political classification.

  23. 30

    spews:

    lee…once again, as someone with a cop in the family who works in west sac. [crapville] i know that he isn’t “ordered” to target minorities. he isn’t ordered to do anything other than keep the peace and arrest people BREAKING THE LAW.
    so is your spin now that the mayors are racists? city council? who are these mystery people that tell the cops to only arrest minorities. talk about projecting……
    feeling guilty are you?

  24. 31

    spews:

    lee…but this sure is isn’t it? ….”No, you retard.”….
    especially since you are attacking someone that you claim to be mentally “challenged” right?
    wow…that’s so new age of you.

  25. 32

    spews:

    @30
    i know that he isn’t “ordered” to target minorities.

    Did I ever say that every cop in the world is ordered to? Of course not. So get your head out of your ass and stop embarrassing yourself.

    so is your spin now that the mayors are racists? city council? who are these mystery people that tell the cops to only arrest minorities.

    It’s not about “mystery people” who tell the cops to arrest minorities, it’s about how drug law enforcement in black communities is often considerably more aggressive. This isn’t because of a single racist person at a big board with buttons controlling everything. It’s generally a reflection of the attitudes of a community, which often will tolerate injustices that happen in the black community, but have the resources to fight back when the same thing happens in the white community.

    Again, this is like the 4th time we’ve gone over this and we have the same damn discussion every time. Are you really so retarded that you keep forgetting, or do you just like being a vacuous ditz?

  26. 34

    spews:

    @31
    especially since you are attacking someone that you claim to be mentally “challenged” right?
    wow…that’s so new age of you.

    Normally, I find it rude to call people who are mentally challenged “retarded”, but I’ve learned to make an exception with you.

  27. 35

    spews:

    @33
    and the “washington republicans” aren’t a specific group???
    on what planet?

    Here’s the definition of slander:

    http://www.answers.com/slander&r=67

    1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person’s reputation.
    2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

    You call me a racist without any evidence – slander

    I say that the Washington Republicans bamboozle social conservatives immediately after providing a link to an instance of Washington Republicans bamboozling a social conservative – not slander

    If you’re still confused, maybe I can find a 7-year-old who can explain it to you.

    Yes, you’re a massive retard.

  28. 36

    spews:

    lee….i know that you think you make a lot of sense.*sigh* but, actually what i think you really make are a lot of assumptions based on your personal desires. this pearl for instance:
    “it’s about how drug law enforcement in black communities is often considerably more aggressive.”
    quote a link toots…….and i will find one that contradicts it. it’s just you “projecting” your personal wishes here.
    but here’s something for you to think about. why don’t you, the liberal spoiled white rich kid, go into the ghetto and ask the families there if they want the drug dealers around?
    then you get back to me like a good boy,okay?

  29. 37

    spews:

    @36
    why don’t you, the liberal spoiled white rich kid, go into the ghetto and ask the families there if they want the drug dealers around?

    I have, and what they want even more than that is for the entire justice system to stop treating them like second-class citizens. Again, we’ve gone over this before. Get your head out of your ass.

  30. 38

    rhp6033 spews:

    On Saturday, David Postman asked:

    “Boy, you’ve got to wonder what those 37th District Republicans have planned today.”

    It seems that Ross Marzolf, the GOP 37th District chair, not only barred a UW journalism student from entering the caucus, but when the student stood on the public streets outside the public library branch where the cacus was held to talk to participants coming and going, Marzolf threatened him with arrest. When told by the library staff that he could not bar the media from attending, Marzolf told delegates that the media was prohibited from talking to participants or taking photographs, which was also wrong.

    http://blog.seattletimes.nwsou.....aucus.html

    Maybe we have a hint now about what the Republicans had in mind?????

  31. 39

    spews:

    lee@34……..no, lee, you just recreate the rules every time to suit yourself and then you rationalize it like a fool.
    retard? that’s really nice. at this point i would far rather be that than a whiny hypocrite.
    i love that you have specific groups of people that can’t be touched no matter what they are doing [drug dealers that happen to be black] but the cops? oh screw them in your world….they MUST have bad intentions.
    this classic from you:”In most cases, the cops aren’t racist”
    facts? links? or just another one of your “i feel your pain[i’m hip, really] i’m a whiny white kid” moments?
    i’m sure that the officers that risk their lives every day will be thrilled to note that you think they aren’t racists “in most cases”…..

  32. 40

    rhp6033 spews:

    Okay, sorry about the duplicate post. It took a while for my other post to be published, and I thought it didn’t take.

  33. 41

    spews:

    @38
    RHP,
    Thanks for the link. I’ll post an update here. There’s a lot of stuff coming out that looks bad.

  34. 42

    spews:

    lee@37…could you post your “interviews” of these people? and what size was the sample group? forgive me if i am not willing to take your word for it…….
    and do you have any idea how racist [you appear to be] it is of you to be pretending to speak FOR THEM?
    yup..that’s just what they need. the whiny rich white kid that got their son arrested speaking for them…….

  35. 43

    spews:

    @39
    i’m sure that the officers that risk their lives every day will be thrilled to note that you think they aren’t racists “in most cases”…..

    Oh my lord, you’re the stupidest person on earth. I’m not talking about individual cops going from being racist to being not racist. Are you really that fucking stupid that you thought that? Wow!

    I’m talking about how there are a small number of cops who actually are racist, but I’m convinced that there are a minority among all cops. Now I certainly don’t have data to prove this, but in my experience I’ve found that most cops aren’t racist at all. And in fact, a certain number of them feel some guilt over the fact that they’ve seen how blacks are disproportionately targeted in drug crimes. That’s why there are groups like Law Enforcement Against Prohibition today.

  36. 45

    spews:

    @42
    lee@37…could you post your “interviews” of these people? and what size was the sample group? forgive me if i am not willing to take your word for it…….
    and do you have any idea how racist [you appear to be] it is of you to be pretending to speak FOR THEM?

    I went to a “stop the violence” rally in the Central District last fall with SeattleJew. The speaker was the pastor of a local church, and he was at the park and spoke. The crowd was 95% black and constituted people who were from some of the poorer Seattle neighborhoods. The pastor spoke for a long time. He spoke out against the violence and the drug dealing, but he most passionately spoke out about how the police don’t treat people in his neighborhood with enough respect, and how the system is often extremely unfair for the black community here.

    And please don’t try to tell me that this is unique to Seattle. I’m convinced at this point that you can’t possibly get any dumber, but I’ve been wrong before.

  37. 46

    rhp6033 spews:

    Note that Christmas Ghost has effectively hijacked the thread again, in an attempt to deflect attention from the fact that the Republicans are actually doing a far worse job of counting ballots than King County ever did.

  38. 47

    spews:

    lee@43..stepping into the thought trap.
    okay lee……how are any of them racist just for arresting drug dealers or other people committing crimes?
    when you go fishing, do you look for water or a desert? if you or i wanted to find drug dealers we would go to the ghetto where the majority of people HAPPEN TO BE minorities.
    remember, you did.
    does that make you a racist too?????
    you went to the “bad” neighborhoods because you [even you!] KNEW that you could buy drugs there.so ,based on your “theories” you are a racist. you assumed that minorities would have drugs. but if cops come to the very same conclusions they are racists with evil intentions.
    at least they are upholding the laws….what’s your excuse? you just wanted to get high at someone else’s expense. people that you perceived to either be more willing to take that risk or that just plain didn’t count as much as your personal desires…….
    once again…who is the racist here?

  39. 48

    spews:

    @46
    And I apologize for indulging her. That’s my fault. I should have just deleted her first comment.

  40. 49

    spews:

    @47
    when you go fishing, do you look for water or a desert? if you or i wanted to find drug dealers we would go to the ghetto where the majority of people HAPPEN TO BE minorities.

    There are no more drug dealers or drug users in the ghetto than there are in wealthier areas.

    http://www.justicepolicy.org/c.....8;ssmID=69

    This is why you keep outing yourself as a racist because you believe otherwise even though you’ve been told REPEATEDLY, and been given the evidence, that you’re wrong.

    you went to the “bad” neighborhoods because you [even you!] KNEW that you could buy drugs there.so ,based on your “theories” you are a racist.

    I’ve gone to a bad neighborhood to buy drugs exactly ONCE in my life. And I did it because my friend (a much wealthier suburban white kid) thought it was cool.

    My god, you’re completely and totally fucking retarded.

  41. 50

    spews:

    lee@45….that is hardly evidence of anything except that pastor’s opinion. period.
    now i know where seattle jew gets his way of looking at data from……LOL.
    i am going to claim that it is different in seattle…. maybe you should ask that young man’s family about it. you know christopher kymes [sp?] the young man that was stomped to death in front of cops with a bad case of PC “but they are black” itis.
    now that’s also racism………

  42. 51

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    @ 48, Lee you made the mistake of trying to reason with the insane.

    It will just never work, and it will only end up driving you crazy.

  43. 53

    spews:

    lee……”There are no more drug dealers or drug users in the ghetto than there are in wealthier areas.”

    maybe so, maybe not.
    but there is one big difference that EVEN YOU will have to acknowledge. they are easier to grab for the crime in the ghetto because they are out in the open. no need for a warrant.that is the difference lee….and what’s more, you know it.cops are like sharks….they cruise for the easy target. period.
    but it’s such a feel good moment for you to hide your wanting to legalize drugs [and i agree with you on that] behind “this must be a racist conspiracy” crap…….

  44. 55

    Cougar spews:

    wow, some things never change. Imagine, after 6 months traveling the world I come back to HA and find the same ‘mentaly challenged’ xmashag spewing the same old regurgitaded ideas. How did we get ‘cursed’ with he/she/it?

  45. 56

    proud leftist spews:

    Lee
    Arguing with christmasghost recalls the old admonition about why you shouldn’t wrestle with pigs. She is completely incapable of recognizing any flaws in either herself or her arguments. She is also remarkably elitist–her posts on a thread yesterday were eyepopping in that regard. In her view, anyone whose ancestors didn’t come over on the Mayflower lacks the pedigree to voice an opinion about American affairs. Still, getting her to rant can be a fascinating case study of the Republican mind.

  46. 58

    spews:

    @50
    lee@45….that is hardly evidence of anything except that pastor’s opinion.

    Then why were there 100 people listening to him and nodding in agreement?

    now i know where seattle jew gets his way of looking at data from……LOL.

    What? Should he just make shit up like you do?

    i am going to claim that it is different in seattle….

    Of course you are. Do you have any evidence to support making such a distinction? Of course not. The voices in your head are the only justification you ever need.

    maybe you should ask that young man’s family about it. you know christopher kymes [sp?] the young man that was stomped to death in front of cops with a bad case of PC “but they are black” itis.
    now that’s also racism………

    What happened with Christopher Kime was a tragedy and he was killed by racists. But once again, this cuts at the heart of your particular mental illness here. In the original link where I explained your racism, your first response was to start screaming hysterically about Christopher Kime. His death does not mean that it’s now ok for black people to be rounded up and thrown in jail because you’re angry over it. But for some reason, that always seems to come up. Why?

    Again, this is your main problem here. The fact that drug law enforcement has a strong racial disparity is something that your fears don’t allow you to deal with logically, just as when your niece went missing two years ago, your fears would not allow you to deal with the situation logically, and you misled a large number of us to think that she’d been kidnapped, when in reality she was a runaway. I’ve pleaded with you repeatedly to consider seeking professional help for your mental health problems, but it’s no use. Instead, your way of coping is to continually accuse others of having the same failings that you do. So you can’t deal with the fact that the Christopher Kime murder made you a racist? Just call all Democrats racists and that way you can project it away from yourself.

    You have one more comment on this thread. I will not respond to it, and then after that, everything off-topic will be deleted.

    Please get some fucking help.

  47. 59

    ewp spews:

    @3 We, the members of the Democratic Party in Washington don’t select our candidates in order to fill a racial, gender, religous, etc. quota. We select the candidate we feel best represents the hopes and aspirations of the people. We select smart, decent human beings. Then the right wing attack machine shifts into gear and tries to reduce those people into liars, cowards, cheats, etc. But at least we can hold our heads high, and sleep soundly at night comforted by the fact that day after day of being attacked as unpatriotic louts, we continue on believing that in the end we will prevail, because we don’t believe that people are inherently evil or ignorant. We believe in the goodness of people, and the common sense of the average person. It must frustrate the right wingers to no end that short of rounding us up and shooting us all, something some of them have actually proposed, we will not give up and go away.

  48. 60

    I-Burn spews:

    @59 Omg… Do be careful that you don’t dislocate your arm patting yourself on the back… Oh, and be sure and check under the bed for those *evil* right-wingers. You know how they love to lurk and then pounce on poor unsuspecting leftists.

    Gag!

  49. 61

    spews:

    @3 Xmasghoon

    can any of you tell me why now is the time for a black president? if we are going on pecking order….don’t you think we should be looking for a native american president? how about hispanic? chinese? these are all much larger groups of people that weren’t exactly treated well EITHER…..

    Gee ..

    I am for O’bama cuz he is Irish, from Kansas, and had a single WHITE mother. I never though of the idea that he might be black too. Kool!

    BTW, he may not be “native” in the sense you use it but he did attend a native hawaian high school. And while not Asian, he did for a time have an Indonesisan step father.

    Looks like he takes care of a lot of your worries!

    Now, when will we have the first fat Jewish atheist President?

  50. 62

    spews:

    @61
    Now, when will we have the first fat Jewish atheist President?

    You’ve got my vote. Or maybe you can make me your skinny Jewish atheist vice president.

  51. 64

    spews:

    @50 now i know where seattle jew gets his way of looking at data from……LOL.

    For waht it is worth Dr. Robert Jeffries is tha pastor of New Hope and yes he is an astonishingly bright man.

    I would certainly trust data form Dr. Jeffries but as it happens the data that you are debating with Lee has not been a topic of my interest. I tend to think that cops have a hard job and that “their” faults are generally do to the sorts of dumbass laws that lee writes about than because cops are bad people. I think Dr. Jeffries might ell you the same thing.

    However, since yu brought the subject up, may I urge you .. ass a christian .. to attend one of Dr. Jeffries’ services?
    Whenever I get angry about the bad things in Christinaity, Dr. Jeffries comes to my mind. He epitomizes the wonderful things about your faith .. indeed I have told him that I feel it always fair to ask myself WWJD .. as long as the standard is Jeffries. He aughs at this of course and it is obvious that Dr. Jeffiries amazing efforts to help others i driven by a faith I can only admire.

    So, you call yourself a Christian ..well take it from a Jew that meeting this great man is one of the best ways you can learn about the power to do good that is present in your faith.

    Now if Dr. Jeffires would just convert, he would be perfect!

  52. 65

    spews:

    @63
    Yep, good call! I actually thought that Brownback was going to have the kind of rise that Huckabee had. Shows how little I know. :)

  53. 67

    spews:

    @62 itsa deal … but I don’t think I could get there, too many skeletons in my closet and I don;t think I have the wit to pander well.

    God though, I am hyped! Could this be real?? Can I really be living to see man who has lived this man’s life become President of my country? I can not imagine how wonderful it would be to wake up proud of my country again!

    I know this sort of exuberance is tempered by cynicism. But I truly believe in the Buddhist concept of bodhisittava .. not of saints or gods, but of good people, better people we all can learn from.

    In my life time I have been so lucky to experience Dr. King and Cesar Chavez. I also have known a may quieter bhodis. But the thought of such a person .. warts and all .. being my President? Too wonderful for words.

    BTW … I think this is also the hidden reason BHO is doign so well. CONSERVATIVES, people who are good Christians, for whom WWJD has nothing to do with spreading the faith but a lot to do with being good, identify with him.

    How far can such leadership go? Lincoln was pretty unpopular at the end of his first term and may have won by stuffing the ballot boxes. Washington, if it were not for Jefferson, might be remembered as the first King of a Hamiltonian Monarchy. OTOH, look at how far, albeit in the wrong direction, GWB has (mis)led us? Imagine the same sort of leadership this twit exercised in Iraq, focused on healthcare, education, and a true new world order. Imagine what GWB might have achieved if on 9/12 he had seized the moment to call for shared sacrifice, national service, and a stronger international alliance?

    I have hope.

  54. 68

    spews:

    @65 funny thing, I also was more impressed with Brownback than Huckaby. Actually I thin the debate system has worked very well in educating us all on some very interesting people.

    Can you imagine what a riot the Repricans might have had if James Webb had not saved them from as George Allan run?

  55. 69

    spews:

    lee and seattle jew…….”just as when your niece went missing two years ago, your fears would not allow you to deal with the situation logically, and you misled a large number of us to think that she’d been kidnapped, when in reality she was a runaway.”
    first of all……i didn’t realize lee that you were a cop or had access to the file on my niece.the last time she was seen she was getting into the car of a known felon. a felon who has done time for terrorist threats and battery.and i have been working with the police all along.we all have. no one wanted to do anything that would further put her at risk….but leave it to you to not be able to comprehend something like that.
    i do now realize that ,after that last comment of yours, you are a piece of trash. i wish i had misled someone in this……..she is still missing. do you know something that neither the police or i don’t? perhaps you should talk to the police about it. perhaps i can help you get in touch with them. the fact that you would use something as tragic as a missing child to shore up your lame bullshit ideas just shows everyone what you really are. a piece of trash.
    and seattle jew..do you ever pay attention? no? oh course not, i am an idiot right? and that’s why you wouldn’t read anything i write. BUT, you still want to comment on what i write. listen idiot number two…..i am not a christian. and i think it’s you who really needs to talk to a pastor..you are the one that thinks it’s okay for someone to bring up a missing child and throw it in their face right?
    both of you…..walking organ donors.
    on your lame point….wow, a whole hundred people nodding their heads in agreement. wow…..then it must be true.
    idiots.
    and what happened to all those people in the ghetto you talked to? just more of the same BS.
    well, at least you finally admitted the truth…..that’s a first:What happened with Christopher Kime was a tragedy and he was killed by racists”
    i hope his family hasn’t just “made up” this tragedy.
    this is it for me here….i will not waste my time on people that are so low as to use a missing child…….you disgust me.
    what a wee little man you are. can’t make your lame arguments stand on their “merit” you have to drag the gutter for dirt………and then make the dirt up as you see fit.
    you should be deleted.

  56. 70

    spews:

    @69 Perhaps it would be wiser of you NOT to discuss a criminal matter in public at all?

    AS for your poison ivy reaction to my suggestion that you take the opportunity to meet Dr. Jeffries, whether you are a Christian or not, sometimes we all benefit form the advice of good people. Whatever your religion, I do hope oyu have freinds who are wise enough to advise you and to help you with the situation in re your daughter.

    Finally ,as to your presence here, I must admit that I ahve trouble understanding why you visit? You only seem tot aunt, never to make real arguments for your points. Like Puddy, you strike me as what folks call “immature” even thought the term may apply better to some adults than to young people.

    So, good luck to your niece. Wherever she is, I hope she is OK.

  57. 72

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #8 christmasghost says:
    lee….you know i just love you. you are just hysterical…..


    yes ,you honey….you are the one that plays the race card every time you want to promote drug legalization. cause you’re that “thinking, compassionate rich white kid” that used to buy drugs from minorities and then when you didn’t get arrested [because you slithered back to your chi chi neighborhood instead of standing in plain view on the corner of a bad one]and the dealers did get arrested [you know, for breaking the law] you screamed that the cops were all racists. even the black and hispanic ones.

      
    Ouch. Lee a rich kid taking advantage of minorities. Lee no doubt feels guilty because he knows the truth.

  58. 73

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #23 Lee says:

    What I claimed was that police OVERWHELMINGLY target minorities. This is also a well-known fact as was pointed out to you repeatedly by a number of people.

      
    This reminds of a line from some joseph wambaugh book about cops arresting a black guy and the black guy was crying racist and the cop replied… “Look around, everyone here is black. Why did I pick you instead of a different black guy.”
    Lee, take a drive though watts, how many rich white guys do you see?

  59. 74

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    #30 christmasghost says:

    lee…
    so is your spin now that the mayors are racists? city council? who are these mystery people that tell the cops to only arrest minorities. talk about projecting……

      
    Maybe what Lee is trying to say is the democrat mayors in big cities (los angeles, detroit, etc.) target black people.

  60. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Because of the timing of our caucus and primary, and that of recent political events, we’re a party uniquely positioned to embarrass itself.”

    Hmmm … I think the root causes of their self-inflicted embarrassment goes deeper than the timing of their caucus and primary. Let’s start with their mental health and work up from there.

  61. 76

    spews:

    It seems to me that we are watching a crisis of hoistoric proportions in the Republican party.

    There never was any logic to the coalition Reagan used to bring “conservatism” to the White House. The “gipper” combined racism with patritoism, fanatical religion with calculating business conservatism into one party. I suspect that the business types and the barons of evangelism figured out that they were the masters of this new regime, while the Republican voter was … “well you know how those folks are.”

    The Dems had somethig similar in place with the way they treated african americans and poor labor.

    BUT, under WJC, the dems retooled. Today’s Dem party is led by rather rational folks with a cnsit3ent set of views.

    AND, classical racism has been defeated by the Oprahs and Robinsons, by decades of reformatory prophaganda, by the sanctification of MLK.

    So, tell me .. why would the average Republican still want to be a …Republican??

    Is this the party where everyone agrees that Darwin was a monkey? NO.

    Is this the party where segregation is tolerable? NO

    Is this party where everybody wink wink agrees this is a Christian country. NO

    Is this the party of fiscal conservatism? NO

    What is left? Terror. Low Taxes. Military defeat.

    Not a lot!

    Assuming BHO is the candidate and that the Clintons join forces with the new guys … the Dems MAY turn a lot of Republicans. This is evident from the huge numbers of Repubs who when queried about who they like after their first choice, pick Obama.

    It may not be too soon to ask what happens if the Rep party is really hurt this year? What would replace it as an opposition party?

    Has Bill Clinton fathered a party that has no sensisble opposition??