Hard Knox

Amanda Knox found guilty; sentenced to 26 years. Talk amongst yourselves.

Comments

  1. 1

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Despite her impassioned plea, it sure seemed like the evidence was stacked against her.
    Too bad a young, bright person can be so misguided and evil. What a waste.
    But seems like justice was served.

  2. 3

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Not yet, what is lost on those who automatically assumed she was guilty, is the prosecutor got his conviction, but he did not get what he wanted. No life sentence, just 26 years, and a lawyer from Italy KING 5 had on said that this was actually good news for her. It means there was doubt among the jurors, or they would have given her the life plus 9 months in the hole he was asking for. The appeals will most likely begin soon, with the first round taking about a year.

    I wonder how the prosecutor’s own trial is going to go.

  3. 5

    Tyler spews:

    What is it with people who go to UW that makes them want to kill people? Bundy, Knox… dear god save us all.

  4. 6

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    2) How about the 173rd Airborne Brigade, aren’t they based in Italy?(With her bad luck, they are probably deployed elsewhere)

    If anybody is boycotting, it will probably be against us for being her home state, but if we did a counter boycott, I suggest it be like Sound Transit disqualifying AnsaldoBreda from bidding on future railcar procurement. They have an out if people complain, the company’s products often turn out to be lemons, like LRVs in Boston and Los Angeles(Although sometimes the specs were the problem too). Sorry to go there, just wanted to get that off my chest.

    I am also concerned how is the Kercher Family going to collect? The bank will probably be owning the parents house because the mortgaged it to pay for the legal costs.

  5. 8

    vitaminBdeficient spews:

    Throughout this whole saga never did I once seriously consider that she would be found guilty. Incredible waste of lives here…

    If she did the crime, she got what she deserves but if she is being railroaded then wow, just wow..26 freaking years!..wow..

  6. 9

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    On one blog, it was erroneously suggested she would get the Death Penalty if convicted in Washington State. Problem is, I do not think Washington State has ever executed a woman, let alone put on Death Row, even though there were a few cases where prosecutors tried. Although it would have been risky for the San Juan County Prosecutor to try to get it in the Neslund case.(Yes, the wife of the harbor pilot that wrecked the West Seattle Bridge, she was convicted for his murder 2 years later). They did not have a body. We have also seen Death Row cases thrown out on technicalities, and then there is the Ridgeway issue.

  7. 11

    lauramae spews:

    Awful. It really seems like the actual evidence wasn’t sufficient to demonstrate she had anything to do with the murder. It was stunning to watch the prosecutor make up wild scenarios that had no basis in evidence. It’s unfortunate that Italian justice system allows jurors to see all the “reporting” on the case.

    Whatever she knew about it, it seems pretty plain that she didn’t do it. Justice wasn’t served, but the process is what it is. It’s a different country. A weird, bizarre 3rd world like country, but that’s just something to consider before ever going there.

  8. 13

    GBS spews:

    1. Mr. Cynical spews:

    Despite her impassioned plea, it sure seemed like the evidence was stacked against her.
    Too bad a young, bright person can be so misguided and evil. What a waste.
    But seems like justice was served.

    How truly stupid are you???

    She was NOT proven GUILTY by the state!

    Did you know that??

    She could NOT prove she was innocent. That’s how it works in Italy, when charged you are presumed guilty. You have to prove you are innocent.

    If this case were in America it wouldn’t have made it to trial, dumb ass.

    She’s most likely innocent, or at the very least, lacks sufficient evidence to be convicted of DOING the crime.

    Justice was served, huh?

    No wonder you blabber the rants you do. You truly have very little idea what’s going on in the world around you. Do you?

  9. 14

    rhp6033 spews:

    As far as boycots go, remember that Alenia makes quite a few rather large assemblies for Boeing. They have been making portions of the tail sections of airplanes for quite a few years (verticle stabilizers, rudders, etc.), and as partner in Global Aeronautica they made the entire tail section of the 787 at Vought’s Charleston plant.

    I’m not sure how this was affected when Boeing bought up the plant, my understanding is that Boeing bought up the portion of the aft-fuselage contract which Vought was building by itself, and then bought up Vought’s interest in Global Aeronautica which was building another aft section of the fuselage. If this is correct, Alenia is still a partner with Boeing in Global Aeronautica. But the whole transaction was kind of muddy, I might have it wrong.

    I remember a decade ago trying to buy airplane parts from Alenia. Couldn’t get anybody to answer the phone! Then I found out that they were shut down for the entire month of July to move the factory from one city to another – without any advance warning to vendors or customers. I waited anxiously for the the plant to re-open at the start of August, only to be reminded then that in Italy, like France, EVERYBODY goes on vacation for the entire month of August! I had to wait until after Sept. 1st to even speak to someone at Alenia.

    Oh, and if Boeing management thinks the Machinists in Everett are difficult to work with, wait until they try working directly with the Italian trade unions! I can just see Boeing management, confidently thinking they now have their labor troubles behind them, only to find out one day that a union in Italy is on strike, and the 787 assembly line is going to grind to a halt for several months waiting for parts from Alenia!

  10. 15

    rhp6033 spews:

    By the way, remember that in Italy the jurors are “professional jurors”, not lay people. They are not sequestered from the media.

    Also, remember that the media in Italy which has been screaming about what a demonic killer this young lady was, is actually almost entirely owned by the current prime minister, who is pretty far to the right (he can give Murdoch a run for his money). Of course, he does have some of his own troubles – it seems he’s been accused of multiple marital infidelities, and his marriage is on the rocks.

  11. 16

    doggril spews:

    @11 – Italy a 3rd world-like country? I’m going to take a wild guess that you don’t get out much.

  12. 19

    lauramae spews:

    Doggril. I’m being sarcastic. Making a comment on the justice system in Italy. Any system of justice that operates like that one is backwards, like a 3rd world country. I stand by that. There’s nothing about the conduct of the people involved to indicate a country that is anywhere close to leaving the dark ages.

  13. 20

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The victim didn’t die of natural causes, there are only a handful of people on this planet who could have killed her, and Knox is one of ‘em.

  14. 21

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @5 What is it about Republicans that makes them want to kill people? Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, etc. … God help the defenseless, poor, and foreign among us.

  15. 22

    daniel spews:

    @20

    Indeed, and all three are proclaiming their innocence and that they’ve been railroaded. At least one of them is likely guilty of the crime, so why one should be believed but not the others creates quite a quandary.

  16. 23

    lauramae spews:

    She’s guilty based on what, exactly? The other guy’s DNA was all over the murder scene. Knox’s wasn’t and she lived there. There was so little DNA on the knife that didn’t match the wounds, they couldn’t take more than one sample.

  17. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @23 Look, I don’t know if she was involved in the murder. But when you travel to a foreign country, you’re subject to their laws and if something happens you’ll be tried under their legal system. The rights criminal defendants are entitled to under U.S. laws don’t travel with you. If you want to know more about how the Italian criminal justice system works, this link has that information:

    http://www.heuni.fi/uploads/jrrqu.doc

  18. 25

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

    5. Tyler spews: What is it with people who go to UW that makes them want to kill people? Bundy, Knox… dear god save us all.

    Well if you have been paying attention to the HA arschloch, ylb arschloch… he’s been telling the world UW is a liberal university. Everyone listens to the HA arschloch so it has to be true. He has this big homemade database he relies on…

    Liberal university… ylb arschloch says so. Killers… well there are some facts as you point out Tyler…

  19. 26

    Dave spews:

    It was a pretty shoddy (if not shitty) case, by American standards.

    As mentioned by others above, boycotts can be complicated, but what about a diplomatic statement…

    Does anyone think that Mayor-elect Mike McGinn should pursue dropping Perugia from Seattle’s Sister City list next year?

    I mean… is it really appropriate for Seattle to continue to be associated with a place where Satanic murder cults run wild (according to imaginative Italian prosecutor Giuliano Mignini, that is)?

  20. 27

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @26 Look, if I’m ever arrested by the Italian police, well I’m a tough rabbit, but they say everyone breaks under waterboarding, and if they force me to name a suspect, then I’m gonna give ‘em puddy …

  21. 28

    lauramae spews:

    Roger you said

    The victim didn’t die of natural causes, there are only a handful of people on this planet who could have killed her, and Knox is one of ‘em.

    So I wonder based on what evidence? That she was the roommate? Your response providing the link to how the Italian justice system might work is interesting but not what I was questioning in that particular comment. I just wonder how Americans, seeing what the evidence is and how often the proceedings were covered could possibly come to the conclusion that she “Did it.”

  22. 30

    proud leftist spews:

    Any chance anyone can translate for me what Puddy said at 25?

    I didn’t follow the Knox trial. We have enough injustice that occurs under the best justice system in the world (and I mean that) that I didn’t feel compelled to watch someone go down under an ally’s system of “justice.” Republicans should be warmed by this verdict/judgment. Convictions, whether right or wrong, always warm whatever substitutes for hearts in Republicans.

  23. 31

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Troll, I just wonder, are you serious about that or just kidding?

    Seriously, as for a boycott, I considered the 4200 series Metro Trackless Trolleys, but those may have been made by Breda, but when their diesel-components were disabled and converted to electric-only, they became American in my book.(I think Metro shop crews did the conversion. I saw one of them on the road tonight, did not see any decals on the side. Used to be one of AnsaldoBreda’s logos on the side). Spare parts? No problem. They only had 230 of them, 60 were converted, one for the museum fleet, the rest stripped for parts or kept for potential stripping for parts. These buses were built because they were the only ones for the tunnel at the time, were big monsters. Two different drives, two different transmissions, too heavy, too wide for the road, and they charged too much for parts on warranty that could have been procured from locally. Ever hear of $250 for an oil filter that cost only $4 locally? That happened, although the PI when they ran that expose in 1991, actually did try to get a comment from Breda, and the excuse was they were pricing parts for the first time. Come to think of it, I think that was their only foray into the US Market on dual-mode buses. There was never a repeat order. Plus, 1991 was pre Euro, so Breda’s accounting was with the Lira, and the exchange rate was much different then. The article is interesting, you might recognize some of the County Councilmembers that were feigning outrage, both are no longer in local politics.

    http://www.seattlepi.com/archi.....150016.asp
    Oops, went too far there.

    rhp
    The Alenia section of the 787, that got me thinking a hypothetical. If this had been a Boeing Rep instead of a College Student, wonder what Boeing would have done. Cut them loose, or get a lawyer their pronto?

  24. 32

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    RHP, also, Burlesconi’s trial, which he delayed, on corruption charges, is about to resume. He is trying to say he can’t make it because he has to run the country.

  25. 33

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @28 “I just wonder how Americans, seeing what the evidence is and how often the proceedings were covered could possibly come to the conclusion that she “Did it.””

    I can’t tell you that, but I can tell you how the Italian police came to that conclusion.

    1. The victim is dead.
    2. Somebody killed the victim.
    3. Knox shared a house with the victim.
    4. They had some modicum of forensic evidence which, however sloppily handled by our standards, was persuasive to their investigators.
    5. Knox blamed the murder on a specific person and then changed her story.
    6. Knox admitted using drugs on the night of the murder.
    7. Knox associated with the other persons that the police believe were involved in the murder.
    8. The Italian system starts out with a de facto presumption of guilt, and Knox failed to prove her innocence.

    There’s more, but that should get you started. I’ll repeat what I’ve posted here before: When you go to a foreign country, you leave behind you the rights that Americans take for granted and expose yourself to the laws and legal system of the country you’re in, no matter how inadequate, unfair, or corrupt it may be.

    Oh, and did I mention that when you travel to a foreign country, you make yourself available to be used as a scapegoat for whatever political frustrations their government has with our government? Globalization my ass; this world is still stuck in tribalism.

  26. 34

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    After all the hoopla surrounding this trial, the Italians couldn’t afford to acquit her, because they would lose face. The way these things work is she’ll sit in jail for a couple of token years and then they’ll quietly repatriate her to the U.S. with a “persona non grata” stamp on her passport.

  27. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @30 “Any chance anyone can translate for me what Puddy said at 25?”

    No. He speaks an unknown language that no one can make sense of. Like baby gurgling, it means whatever he wants it to mean at any given point in time, and its meaning can change 5 seconds later.

  28. 36

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @31 “Troll, I just wonder, are you serious about that or just kidding?”

    It’s merely another wingnut excuse for driving their gas-guzzling, pollution-spewing, SUVs instead of riding a bus.

  29. 37

    suffusedwithunrequited spews:

    @5, how about the hundreds of thousands of graduates of UW who have not killed anyone? Your sweeping condemnation does a disservice to everyone.

  30. 38

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Rog Spews–

    I can tell you how the Italian police came to that conclusion.

    1. The victim is dead.
    2. Somebody killed the victim.
    3. Knox shared a house with the victim.
    4. They had some modicum of forensic evidence which, however sloppily handled by our standards, was persuasive to their investigators.
    5. Knox blamed the murder on a specific person and then changed her story.
    6. Knox admitted using drugs on the night of the murder.
    7. Knox associated with the other persons that the police believe were involved in the murder.
    8. The Italian system starts out with a de facto presumption of guilt, and Knox failed to prove her innocence.

    There’s more, but that should get you started. I’ll repeat what I’ve posted here before: When you go to a foreign country, you leave behind you the rights that Americans take for granted and expose yourself to the laws and legal system of the country you’re in, no matter how inadequate, unfair, or corrupt it may be.

    You hit the nail on the head.
    Citizens traveling abroad do have tremendous exposure. WAKE UP!
    Is Amanda Knox guilty?
    The jury said she is.

    Did she do the crime? Who knows.

    Does Amanda Knox know more than she has shared? Methinks so….yup.

    She seemed so aloof and cocky during the hearings & trial…right up to the end where she was pleading for her freedom.
    Seems like she was almost in another world.
    Could be caused by being innocent I suppose.
    Not sure how she should have acted….but wearing sexy clothing, smiling at her boyfriend & family….did not help a bit.

  31. 39

    suffusedwithunrequited spews:

    Oh, and did I mention that when you travel to a foreign country, you make yourself available to be used as a scapegoat for whatever political frustrations their government has with our government? Globalization my ass; this world is still stuck in tribalism.

    Yes, RR, that is exactly where we are stuck. Now lets see what the Saudis and the Iranians say when when we stick it to Mohammed Sheik what’s his face? Can we expect an attack on NYC, Dallas, Cleveland, San Francisco? Do you think we should go and take it out on Pelugia, Italy?

  32. 40

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    Roger Rabbit said:

    “After all the hoopla surrounding this trial, the Italians could not afford to acquit her, because they would lose face.”

    That pretty much sums it up: the Italians couidn’t let her go free because of their egos. Shit, Italy hasn’t done much on the world stage in a couple of centuries. When did they get so high and mighty about themselves?

  33. 41

    ArtFart spews:

    Seems the media and a lot of people (at least here in Seattle) have paid a great deal of attention to this case. Meanwhile there have been other Americans locked up in other countries in comparative anonymity.

  34. 42

    PU spews:

    HEY GBS HAVING BEEN BOOTED OUT OF THE NAVY GUESS YOU ARE UP TO DATE ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM LOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSER

  35. 43

    wub spews:

    What a sad conclusion to a family’s tragedy. Perhaps one among us really knows of her guilt or innocence but I think it’s fair to say it’s beyond our knowledge. I have an opinion but it pales in comparison to the issues it brings up.

    We are left with our reactions to the event and how it fits into the landscape of death by violence that floods our media. It seems the stereotypical image of a murderer is the loner, or the psychotic, or the criminal, usually one dispossessed from mainstream society, a minority of some sort who further deviates from every societal norm by committing the worst of all crimes.

    It cracks our perceptions when a ‘good girl’ finds herself convicted in any court-it brings the shadow uncomfortably close to those who might might identify with her and push their own image of the criminal onto a more obvious villain.

    How then is Amanda Knox covered in the local corporate media? Typically as an innocent ‘good girl’ caught in circumstances beyond her control. How certain the condemnation, then, of those already convicted by the certainty of our perceptions?

    Again, without judgment of her guilt or innocence, look at the coverage afforded to Scott Roeder, Dr. Tiller’s self-avowed murderer who was granted an interview by the AP. Or the coverage of Maurice Clemmons in Tacoma. Or Nidal Malik Hasan in Ft. Hood.

    Whether these individuals are criminals, or insane, or both, or neither, how does this wide variety of coverage effect our perceptions of guilt and innocence? And how will that affect you if you find yourself in a jury box, or, even worse, in the docket?

    At the very least it’s a strong argument for choosing your associations very carefully.

  36. 44

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    ArtFart

    You might be on to something. Remember the guy who breached the security of the house where the Burmese Democracy Leader was locked up? A US Senator had to get him out, although I think what he did was stupid, her sentence got extended, there were just a few weeks left on the latest period of house arrest.

    Laura Ling and Euna Lee were also locked up in a North Korean prison, could have been worse. They were covering North Korean Refugees sneaking into China, crossed the river for 1 minute and got caught. Bill Clinton had to visit NK and get them out. That won’t happen this time, but Burlesconi and Clinton seem to have some stuff in common.

  37. 45

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Mr. Cynical,
    Italian TV could be partly to blame, but some could say the same here. Turns out the man who owns most of Italy’s media, the PM, is going to change one policy at his company, no more scantily clad women on TV shows that don’t have professional qualifications.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/n.....19041.html

    officially an austerity measure that will cut back on the number of scantily clad young women who decorate everything from quizzes to satirical programmes. But the Italian papers – and some Mediaset insiders – are in no doubt the diktat is also designed to spare the Prime Minister further blushes. The premier has been hit by a series of scandals in which he is alleged to have ingratiated himself with women with talk of television jobs.

    A pretty face can aid a political career in Berlusconi’s Italy. Mara Carfagna, the equal opportunities minister, was a topless model and a Mediaset show girl before joining the Cabinet. Before her meteoric rise, Berlusconi told Ms Carfagna he’d “marry her in a flash” if he were single.

  38. 46

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    I was listening to a podcast of yesterday’s Deutsche-Welle Newslink Plus, and they had a small part on the verdict, about 25 minutes into the program. Seems DW found the only two Italians on the street of Perugia willing to disagree with the verdict.

    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/episode/0,,4847294,00.html

  39. 47

    EvergreenRailfan spews:

    Sounds like Italy is saying no hard feelings, no diplomatic tensions, but that may be premature. Clinton only said she has not yet heard any complaints since the conviction, that may change. Senator Cantwell is doing her rants, while at the same time doing Senate Business, or what passes for Senate Business, with the endless debates.

    After a tense weekend, the top Italian diplomat sought Monday to quell any speculation of a full-blown crisis, saying that no criticism had come from the U.S. secretary of state.

    “Who criticized?” said Franco Frattini, answering to reporters in Brussels. “Certainly not Hillary Clinton. Let’s not create confusion.”

    Clinton herself, speaking Sunday, said she had not looked into the case but would meet with anybody who had concerns. She said she had not expressed concerns to the Italian government.

    Knox was convicted over the weekend of sexually assaulting and murdering her British roommate, Meredith Kercher, and sentenced to 26 years in ja

    http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=252308

    They could at least try to get the appeals process moving. Some stories are saying it will not begin until next fall. The trial took a year, the appeals can take forever still.