HA Mormon Study

[HA Bible Study is on hiatus through the November election as we honor Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney by studying the scriptures of his Mormon religion.]

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22
The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

Discuss.

Comments

  1. 1

    Puddybud spews:

    Puddy will always reserve comment until Steve the Mormon comments. Naturally the pig headed ones will make a snide comment about leftist Steve’s religion!

  2. 2

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    @1
    Wow, new depths in sanctimony are being plumbed before our eyes…

  3. 4

    wharfrat spews:

    A number of conservative Christian blogs and webs denounce the LDS faith and state that Mormons are not Christians. Since the nature of God and the concept of the Trinity are so central to Christianity how does LDS belief compare to Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant belief. I was raised a fundamentalist Catholic with 10 years of boarding school but for the life of me can’t remember much theology.

  4. 5

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    @4
    Trinitarian orthodoxy was established by the Council of Nicaea in 325.

    I know this is what the Catholics hew to, not sure if/which Protestant faiths embrace the same dogma. I would imaging that it’s shared, given that it was nailed-down so far back, so close to the establishment of Christianity, as an essential, foundational dogma.

    I would also think that this is where the ‘Mormons as apostates’ could most definitively hang their complaints – non-acceptance of orthodox trinitarianism seems like a clear deal-breaker from the point of view of more traditional Christian belief systems.

    The Catholic version goes…

    We believe in one God,
    the Father, the Almighty,
    maker of heaven and earth,
    and of all that is, seen and unseen.

    We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
    the only Son of God,
    eternally begotten of the Father,
    God from God, Light from Light,
    true God from true God,
    begotten, not made,
    one in Being with the Father…

    We believe in the Holy Spirit,
    the Lord, the giver of life,
    who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
    With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified….

    This is bedrock ‘you gotta believe this if you want to be in our club’ stuff. If Joseph Smith led a movement that diverged from this, then it seems that there is logical reason to say that Mormons are not Christians.

    That last statement, besides being of ecclesiastical importance, has massive and far-reaching implications with regard to American society and how it views ‘outsiders’.

    I’m not sure if the QOTD captures the most divergent view that the Mormon’s hold, relative to more mainstream Christianity, of the nature of God – though God the Father as flesh-and-bones being is pretty different from mainline Christianity.

  5. 6

    wharfrat spews:

    @5…thanks for clarity. I wondered about God, the Father, made flesh and bones, sounded outside traditional thought but I actively bailed from the RC church after boarding school for the customary reasons. I taught in Las Vegas for the past four years with lots of LDS and other religious kids. It always struck me that they and their parents practiced religion that was a mile wide and an inch deep when it came to core beliefs.

  6. 7

    Steve spews:

    This one gets into some of the nitty-gritty of why a lot of Christians view Mormons as being cultists and not true Christians. In a nutshell, the LDS teaches that the Trinity is three distinct, separate Gods. The father in the “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” trio has a God-wife. Heck, any of you can become a God although, heh, the odds might be a little long for some of you. Anways, think LDS, Joe Smith and multiple Gods, plural versus singular, as most other Christian faiths, both Catholic and Protestant, believe there is but one God in this universe and the doctrine of the Trinity is that God exists at the same time in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    I was just laughing yesterday at my own childhood “Huh? WTF?” view of the Holy Ghost. It really hasn’t changed much. WTF?

    In this life on earth it really doesn’t seem to matter if one’s frame of orientation is a sky-god or if one follows the logic of theoretical physics to infinite universes and eleven dimensions, it’s what one does with one’s life is what’s important. We can pay lip service all we want to God, Plato or Einstein, but it’s how we act out our lives day by day that reveals each of our own’s true values and worth.

    For my part, I don’t see this as being a world of makers and takers. I see it more as a world of those who give and those who don’t. Whether they be a Christian, atheist or whatever, I tend to like those who act out the values taught in Matthew 25, regardless of whether or not it is the words of Jesus which guide them.

  7. 8

    Piltdown Man spews:

    Lib Sci the Clown: Founding member, in good standing, of the HA Hate Club.

    talk about raising kids with a armful of hate, Lib Sci is our guy!

  8. 9

    Bert Chadick spews:

    Jeez. How do they keep it all straight? Three super gods, hundreds of lesser gods (angels) and thousands of micro gods (saints), each with its own turf.

  9. 12

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    @8

    I say plenty of things insulting to organized religion, particularly that of hypocrites telling people who they should hate.

    HOWEVER, @5 was nothing but dispassionate discussion of Christian, particularly early Catholic, dogma, and how it might conflict with Mormonism.

    What’s hateful about that? Or are you just talking out your ass again, Piltdown?

  10. 13

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    @7
    Steve…

    In a nutshell, the LDS teaches that the Trinity is three distinct, separate Gods. The father in the “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” trio has a God-wife. Heck, any of you can become a God

    Three different g/Gods (plus a god-wife)? I could see how traditional Christians, for whom the unity of God in three aspects is a foundational, holy, essential mystery, could say, “No Way, that’s not consistent with the basic ground-rules of Christianity.”

    Also – the Mormon dogma that any of us can become g/God – is that the same “Godishness” that GOD has? That is, are humans who become gods on the same level as God the creator? If so, I could see rejection of that by more traditional Christians as intellectually defensible – it is what it is, and no value judgement – but it’s not consistent or compatible on a very important, foundational point with traditional Christian dogma.

  11. 14

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    Heading out to doorbell – GO OBAMA! GO R74! GO FRAME! GO INSLEE!

  12. 15

    Puddybud spews:

    Waiting for puddle’s take on this. Crickets chirping …

    Why old SENILE Wabbit… Puddy respects all Christian religions. You like most other HA haters despise religion.

  13. 16

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    Puddy respects all Christian religions.

    Interesting qualification.

  14. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I respect all religions, but I don’t necessarily respect all churches or everyone acting in the name of religion. I judge people by how they behave, not what they claim to believe.

  15. 19

    Gman spews:

    @15 and you despise living breathing people called gay. Puffy is a hypocrite and a fake and a phony.

  16. 20

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Roger Rabbit Book Review

    I’ve started reading a book that offers a new perspective on old history. Published in 2010, Bloodlands: Europe Between Hitler and Stalin by Yale historian Timothy Snyder explores the ideological and other causes of Hitler’s and Stalin’s extermination policies that murdered 14 million noncombatants between 1933-1945 in the area between Berlin and Moscow, bordered on north and south by the Baltic and Black seas. A typical review:

    “For over a decade in the middle of the twentieth century, the lands between Russian and Germany were the killing fields of Europe. Tens of millions of civilians from Poland to Ukraine, Lithuania to Belarus were starved, beaten, shot, and gassed to death by the authorities and armies of the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. We think we know this story, and assign it shorthand labels: Auschwitz, the Gulag. In his path-breaking and often courageous study of Europe’s ‘bloodlands,’ Timothy Snyder shows how very much more complicated the story was. His account of the mehtods and motives of murderous regimes, both at home and in foreign war, will radically revise our appreciation of the implications of mass extermination in the recent past. Bloodlands — impeccably researched and appropriately sensitive to its volatile material — is the most important book to appear on this subject for decades and will surely become the reference in its field.” — Tony Judt, author of Postwar and Ill Fares the Land

    This subject matter, and books about it, remind us of why politics is important; and reaffirms the thesis that what doesn’t happen as a result of politics is as important, or more so, as what does happen.

    Unpleasant as the subject is, as long as we still live in a world where gulags and mass murder continue to exist — and they do, even today — we need to comprehend why and how these things happen, in order to construct an understanding of how to end them and prevent them from happening in the future.

    This book may contribute something to that understanding, and therefore is worth the time spent reading it.

  17. 24

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    @22
    Puddl the poolboy…you’re a bigot like most Christianists.

  18. 25

    spews:

    Sigggggghhh

    Do mortals really need to make Me so complex?

    Are you driven to create Me in the image of your own fantasies … your Ego, Superego, and Id? Am I one or three.

    I AM WHAT AM.

  19. 29

    spews:

    @ 27

    CNN has Obama ahead by 4 points in Ohio.

    That CNN poll has Obama up among independents, 49/44.

    How many other Ohio polls have Obama leading among independents, RR?

    Not many – I can’t find the link but there were three polls out of around 15 in which Obama led among independents, and two of the three were CNN polls.

    Last week when Obama led the Real Clear Politics average by 2.5 points, Romney led among independents by an average of 8.7 points. Romney has since increased that lead with independents to 12.3 points, which is why he’s been able to cut Obama’s overall lead even as the polls have leaned more Democratic.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/.....osh-jordan

    Don’t place too much emphasis on polls that have Obama up among independents in OH, RR.

    http://horsesass.org/?p=47339#comment-1196095

  20. 31

    Michael spews:

    @26
    All four papers had good things to say about Obama and endorsed Moderate Mitt The White Obama.

    They cautioned Romney, however, on “wasting time on issues that animate many in his party.”

    The Cedar Rapids Gazette’s editorial board said President Obama “made his mark during his historic first term” with passage of the health care law, reforms to the financial sector and investments in green energy, but they say the president has “come up short” on the economy and debt.

    They didn’t endorse Righty Mitt and they cautioned against the crazy righty shit that his Veep is mostly known for. That’s not much of an endorsement and while they may have endorsed your guy, they’re not endorsing your world view.

  21. 34

    spews:

    @ 32

    The last three Iowa polls are a tie, one for Romney, one for Obama. All three were reported before the newspaper endorsements.

    I don’t know how much sway the endorsements have but I do know they aren’t good news for Obama. That Obama was shamed into making his interview with the Register on the record also won’t play well. Iowans, in general, aren’t pussies. They don’t much like people who are.

  22. 35

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    So….a discussion of religion is hijacked by serial bob, the ranting radiologist from Island county….bleating about Iowa.

    Well, here‘s HuffPo/Pollster.com’s compendium of Iowa polls, and here‘s TPM/PollTracker, and both look remarkably similar, and both have Obama clearly and stably ahead.

    Peddle your FUD elsewhere, bob.

  23. 36

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    Hey bob, any comments, you know, on topic, regarding the passage du jour?

  24. 37

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    Well…now that this thread has been hijacked to discuss polls…

    Here’s polltracker for Ohio…seems like the undecideds are gettin’ off the fence, and the latest three polls, and the composite, all have Obama above 50%.

    Sucks to be bob…gawd I’m so glad we only have a few more days of his insufferable inanity.

  25. 39

    Michael spews:

    Iowans, in general, aren’t pussies. They don’t much like people who are.

    Yeah, but between Mitt and Obama, that’s pretty much a toss up.

    I lived in Dubuque for a while, it’s a nice town.

  26. 40

    Michael spews:

    I it looks like NC’s going to go for Mitt. But considering how those people behave, he can fucking have the place.

    Garrett Carnes, Double Amputee Afghanistan War Veteran, Taunted At Charlotte Restaurant For Wearing Cowboys Jersey

    As Courtney Carnes wheeled her husband into a restaurant after a football game Sunday, she was looking forward to enjoying a meal with her friends and family. But that plan was foiled when the group was taunted and driven from the North Carolina eatery, the Charlotte Observer reports.

    Courtney’s husband Garrett, a Marine, has undergone a number of surgeries since he lost his legs in Afghanistan after stepping on an IED in February, WSOC reports, but he was well enough to go with his family and friends to watch the Dallas Cowboys play the North Carolina Panthers on Sunday.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....ref=impact

  27. 42

    Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

    @41
    Puddl as self-loathing closeted gay guy?

    Hmmmmm

    Do you really want him on your team?

  28. 45

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @44 I have a better idea. Go fuck yourself! If you want to advertise on this blog, then buy ad space, asshole.

  29. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Now I understand why, as GOP Sen. Lindsay Graham recently pointed out, the GOP is running out of “angry white males”: They drop dead quicker.

    “Income inequality also extends to life expectancy. The difference in life expectancy between a high school grad and a college grad is now five years. Twenty years ago it was only one year.” — Peter Orszag at Buttonwood Conference

    http://www.dailyfinance.com/20.....MotleyFool

    (scroll down)