by Goldy, 09/30/2012, 7:00 AM

[HA Bible Study is on hiatus through the November election as we honor Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney by studying the scriptures of his Mormon religion.]

Doctrine and Covenants 130:12
I prophesy, in the name of the Lord God, that the commencement of the difficulties which will cause much bloodshed previous to the coming of the Son of Man will be in South Carolina.

Discuss.

39 Responses to “HA Mormon Study”

1. rhp6033 spews:

Not exactly a difficult guess. I’m not sure of the date the Book of Mormon was written, but from the early 1830′s S. Carolina was the center of the “secession crisis”, with S. Carolina first declaring that it had the right to reject the application of any federal laws (including customs duties & taxes) within it’s borders. President Andrew Jackson, himself a southerner from Tennessee and a slaveholder, threatened to send federal troops to put down the “rebellion”. S. Carolina backed down for a bit, but it all came up again later in 1860.

2. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

I was reading the Wikipedia entry on ‘Doctrines and Covenants’ – and it was apparently not one of the golden plate revealed documents, but a compendium of revelations, and other sundry things, put together by committee and published in 1835.

@1, I think your analysis sounds reasonable.

A lot of D+C 130, from the LDS website, seems to deal with how the afterlife is organized, and also has lots of mentions of ‘Urim and Thummim’ and whole planets will become like them:

This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s.

I didn’t realize, despite lots of theology and church over many years in Catholic school, that references to ‘Urim and Thummim’ are all over the OT. I went to the US Council of Catholic Bishops website, for their version of the Bible, and found this:

* [8:8] The Urim and Thummim: see Ex 28:30 and note there. Although these terms and the object(s) they refer to are still unexplained, they appear to be small objects that functioned like dice or lots to render a decision for those making an inquiry of God, perhaps originally in legal cases where the guilt of the accused could not otherwise be determined (cf. Ex 28:30; Nm 27:21; Dt 33:8; 1 Sm 28:6; Ezr 2:63; Neh 7:65).

This, of course, led me to this bit of ‘decision making’, of a similar logical, um, potency.

3. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Doctrines and Covenants 130 also contains this:

18 Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.

Which means, of course, that in the afterlife, puddl will be just as fucking stupid as he is here.

I hope, then, that in his mythology there is a provision for the really dumb to gain IQ points when Jesus returns in his Cloud O’Glory to smite me.

4. Serial conservative spews:

Speaking of bloodshed, remember when ‘grim milestone’ was all the rage?

Behold, the fruits of Obama’s foray into picking and choosing his troop surge level:

Afghan ‘insider’ attack marks grim milestone for US troop deaths

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/30/14156823-afghan-insider-attack-marks-grim-milestone-for-us-troop-deaths?lite

5. Serial conservative spews:

And then there’s bloodshed subsequent to the coming of Obama Justice Department
Fast and Furious
guns to Mexico.

16 teenagers gunned down because of Obama’s Justice Department.

The Untold Story Behind The “Fast and Furious” Scandal

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/News/untold-story-fast-furious-scandal/story?id=17342034#.UGiAIGjhC_H

One of the most interesting things to me is how hard Univision has hit Obama, both in the recent interview and by the piece it will air tonite.

It’s almost as if Latinos expect something from Obama in exchange for their support of him.

What a concept. Seattleites could learn from that.

6. God spews:

As the only Eternal, I can look into the Wiki at any time in the future. I offer here to share the time course of revelation from three decades hence after future President Romney’s sad loss to President Obama in 2012.

from Wiki (1 AM, January 20, 2050)

After his loss in 2012, then Governor Romney became an apostle of the Church of Latter Day Saints. We are told by Glen Beck’s canonical book “Modern Revelations,” that Apostle Mitt was given messages from the angle Gabriel. These revelations included the famous “Corrections to the Quran” wherein God tells all Muslims that the Apostle Willard is a modern day source of revelation to the Ummah .. the community of Muslims.These revelations ended the conflicts between Sunni and Shia after the Ayatollah Lotfollah Safi Golpaygani accepted the role of Apostle and King Harun Ali of Saud agreed that Muslims and Mormons could jointly participate n9n the Jaf.

Following his defeat of President Hillary Clinton, the Prophet Willard took office in a world wide wave of enthusiasm for joining of them Mormon Church and the Muslim Ummah in one community.

The critical dates are related in the list of holy writings of the Reformed Church of Latter Day Profits:

June 8, 632 Death of the Prophet Muhamud, completion of the Quran

May 20, 325 Oening of the couincil of Nicea according to notes by Eusebius of Caesarea

July 4,795 CE Completion of Hadith by
Muwatta of Malik bin Anas

July 4, 1776 acceptance of the Declaration of Independence, written nby Thomas Jefferson with inspiration by the Angel Strabismus.

April 6, 1830 – When the church was organized, the Bible and Book of Mormon were unanimously accepted as scripture.[citation needed]
August 17, 1835 – Select revelations from Joseph Smith were unanimously accepted as scripture.[5] These were later printed in the Doctrine and Covenants.
October 10, 1880 – The Pearl of Great Price was unanimously accepted as scripture.[6] Also at that time, other revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants which had not been accepted as scripture because they were received after 1835 were unanimously accepted as scripture.[7]
October 6, 1890 – Official Declaration—1 was accepted unanimously as scripture.[8] It later began to be published in the Doctrine and Covenants.
April 3, 1976 – Two visions (one received by Joseph Smith and the other by Joseph F. Smith) were accepted as scripture and added to the Pearl of Great Price. (The two visions were later moved to the Doctrine and Covenants as sections 137 and 138.)[9]
September 30, 1978 – Official Declaration—2 was accepted unanimously as scripture.[10] It immediately was added to the Doctrine and Covenants.
November 9, 2014 – Apostle Romney receives visions from the angel Gabriel.
April 1, 2015 Ayatollah Lotfollah Safi Golpaygani issues Fatwa accepting Apostle Romey’s account as authentic and declares him the mahdi (مهدي).
January 20, 2020 – President Romney gives his first inaugural speech (as President of the USA).
July 4, 2020- President Romney gives his first inaugural speech (as President of the Church).
July, 4, 2032- President (USA) Ryan dedicates The Great American Chapel as part of the Joseph Smithsonian and orders the transfer of all holy documents to the new building.
July 4, 2045 President (LDS) Ryan orders that the visions of the Prophet Willard M Romney shall be incorporated into a new book to be called, “The Canon of Nevii”

7. Zotz sez: If You Could Hie To Kolob In The Twinkling Of An Eye...in between the sheets! spews:

Jesus, God! That’s some good shit you have. Care to share?

8. Steve spews:

Some of you know that some friends and I have created a gift for Rachel Beckwith’s family. A couple of days ago, her mother was the first to receive the gift, all rights to which now belong to Rachel’s Wishing Well Foundation. I’m still speechless as to her response.

Last night we shared with Rachel’s Aunt, following dinner at a friend’s house. She’s a truly remarkable and very, very funny woman. But a woman too, who has been very deeply hurt by the family’s loss of this little girl. I never laughed or cried so much in my life, often at the same time. She shared Rachel stories, photos, and she even shared with us the last moments of Rachel’s life.

For a few minutes I’ll never forget as long as I live, I sat with her, my arm around her and holding her hand as she watched and heard for the first time what we had done for her and all of Rachel’s family. We wept together as we watched and at the end we were both singing along softly with the last choruses. Then we did it again.

You all know about Rachel’s last wish on earth. We talked last night about Rachel’s first wish in Heaven and it has nothing to do with clean water. That dear, sweet little Angel’s first wish in Heaven is for her grieving family.

I’m so proud of my friends. They have suffered terrible losses of their own, as with Rachel’s family, the loss of a child. I never had to ask any of them for their help. Last night I got to listen to them tell Rachel’s Aunt about how, in trying to help this little girl and a family they didn’t know, they had found a very large measure of healing from their own losses.

Over a year ago I made an improbable promise to that little girl, one that I could not possibly keep myself. In the most amazing experience of my life, my friends kept that promise for me.

I now know that Rachel’s first wish in Heaven is beginning to come true. I’m so blessed to be a part of that.

9. Michael spews:

What a crock of shit. Everybody knows that when Jesus comes back his first stop is gonna be at Voodo Doughnuts in Portland. Jesus loves a good doughnut.

10. Steve spews:

“Speaking of bloodshed, remember when ‘grim milestone’ was all the rage?”

When people spoke out against a misbegotten war, the invasion of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and the tragic and unnecessary waste of our nation’s blood and treasure, people like you called them traitors.

Smarm. It’s all you’ve got. Loser.

11. Steve spews:

“Jesus loves a good doughnut.”

Me too.

12. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

@7
I think God took…

…a few too many hits of Matanuska Thunderfuck from Sarah Palin’s bong.

More here.

13. SJ spews:

Aside from your taking God’s name in vain (assuming you think Gos is his name!) ..

what else can Mitt do after he looses to this Muslim?

Mitt is a natural for Apostle! And, the overlap of tradiitions between the “M” faiths is rather obvious:

a. a modern prophecy
b. polygamy
c. belief in angels
d. REALLY impressive holy buildings
e. a sacred places non Ms can nto go.
f. only men get to be priests

……………….

14. Steve spews:

@6 I’d have to look it up again and I don’t feel like it right now, but there really is Mormon prophesy that would be fulfilled if Romney were to win the presidency and Ryan were to convert to the LDS church. The prophesy that would be fulfilled? Armegeddon. Only the Mormon faithful survive. You know, the people who have a years worth of food stored in their homes for when that day arrives?

If you want your kids to live long enough to raise kids of their own, you might want to consider voting for the uppity Kenyan.

15. Serial conservative spews:

@ 14

If you want your kids to live long enough to raise kids of their own, you might want to consider voting for the uppity Kenyan.

If you want your kids to be buried under an ever-growing avalanche of national debt, with unchecked increases in college tuition and a lottery to get into the state universities,

If you want your child to be free to criticize Christianity but to be subject to arrest and possibly prosecution for criticizing Islam,

If you want states and municipalities declaring bankruptcy at an ever-increasing rate to get out from under the unsustainable promises made to public sector unions,

If you want a retirement age of 72 for Social Security eligibility imposed because of Democrat intransigence in dealing with the issue when it wasn’t a full-blown crisis,

If you want your parents denied care because at a life-year value of $48,000 it just doesn’t pencil out,

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html

then yes, by all means, vote to re-elect The One.

16. Serial conservative spews:

I must say I am looking forward to Lib Despair’s HA spews about a dozen years from now, once his kids start paying the bills for the current administration’s expenditures.

I’ll be well into retirement by then. Probably not eligible for the Social Security because major changes to it will have been made by then, although I never expected it to be there for me, anyway. It’s just another tax.

17. Roger Rabbit spews:

15, 16 — If you guys can’t beat a black Kenyan communist with a forged birth certificate who pals around with terrorists — and it sure looks like you can’t — there may be something wrong with your agenda.

18. MikeBoyScout spews:

@16 Kornflake,

You once again demonstrated that you are one of the dimmest bulbs on the Republican string of magical thinking & blinking dim lights.

19. Steve spews:

“If you want your kids to be buried under an ever-growing avalanche of national debt.

Most all of it accumated by Republicans spending like drunken sailors.

“with unchecked increases in college tuition and a lottery to get into the state universities,”

From an asswipe who thinks student loans is some fucking commie plot.

“If you want your child to be free to criticize Christianity but to be subject to arrest and possibly prosecution for criticizing Islam,”

Far better to be ruled by right-wing extremist evangelical CXhristians hell-bent on taking away women’s rights, killing doctors and forcing American children to regurgitate Christian prayers in school.

“If you want states and municipalities declaring bankruptcy at an ever-increasing rate to get out from under the unsustainable promises made to public sector unions,”

Far better to have a Republican Caesar strip America’s cities and towns of local representative government on the way to fulfilling your sick vision of white militias roaming the streets shooting black people.

“If you want your parents denied care because at a life-year value of $48,000 it just doesn’t pencil out,”

Far better for them to be sentenced to death by a corporate death panel.

“then yes, by all means, vote to re-elect The One.”

Fuck you, you racist asshole. What, you don’t like that, Bob? Try doing something about it, bitch.

20. Steve spews:

Your man Scott Brown’s debate tactics were a huge fucking fail, Bob. I’m so sad for you.

http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/09/elizabeth_warren_leads_scott_b_1.html

You’re going to soon be reduced to babbling about Todd Akin and legitimate rape, you smarmy bastard, and to no avail because Akin is going to have his ass handed to him as well. You fucktard wingnuts have blown it big time. That sucks for you, doesn’t it, Bob?

21. Zotz sez: If You Could Hie To Kolob In The Twinkling Of An Eye...in between the sheets! spews:

@12: Faith based, all of it: Economics, religion, national security… Immune to facts and evidence. I’m at a loss as to what to do about the mass delusion that is the so-called “conservative movement” except for ridicule.

I doubt it has anything to do with Thunderfuck or whatever. If you’ve smoked some good pot you’re unlikely to be a wingnut or a teahadist for long.

22. Meme1 spews:

@15,

“Democrat intransigence”

That’s funny, almost like they rejected a plan that involved a $1 tax increase for every $10 in spending cuts… no, wait that was the GOP.

And I’ll bet the Democrats will start saying that social security is a ponzi scheme and a fraud, no wait, Paul Lyin’ already did that.

Yeah, Social Security is really in danger from the Dems; the GOP is truly the caring and compassionate party; in the Reich wing echo chamber you inhabit at least.

23. Meme1 spews:

Hey teatardoKlan, big news:

Voter fraud alert! ACORN lives!

Oh, wait. It’s Republicans…

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/30/us/politics/suspicious-voter-forms-found-in-10-florida-counties.html

> The number of Florida counties reporting suspicious voter registration forms connected to Strategic Allied Consulting, the firm hired by the state Republican Party to sign up new voters, has grown to 10, officials said, as local election supervisors continue to search their forms for questionable signatures, addresses or other identifiers.

[...]

> In Colorado, a young woman employed by Strategic Allied was shown on a video outside a store in Colorado Springs recently telling a potential voter that she wanted to register only Republicans and that she worked for the county clerk’s office.

[...]

> Previous investigations of Mr. Sproul’s operations focused on efforts to register only Republicans or allegations that Democratic forms were torn up.

Cheat all you want, Rethugs. It’s not going to make a bit of difference. If you were smart, you’d be giving the money you’re betting on Willard to House candidates…

24. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

If you’ve smoked some good pot you’re unlikely to be a wingnut or a teahadist for long.

Is that why they fear to legalize it?

The world might be a different place if even some of the angry drinkers out there got stoned instead.

25. Michael spews:

@11
Doughnuts are awesome.

26. Piltdown Man spews:

@8

Well done Steve.

Max.

27. Politically Incorrect - free minds, free markets, free people spews:

rhp6033 said in 1:

“…but it all came up again later in 1860.”

It was actually April, 1861 when “it all came up again.” Just a minor correction. BTW, Andrew Jackson was born in South Carolina, most likely, but the border between NC and SC wasn’t “set in concrete” at that time.

28. Politically Incorrect - free minds, free markets, free people spews:

“…Social Security is really in danger from the Dems…”

We could solve the SS problem today by requiring the federal government to pay at least a 10% APY on any funds “borrowed” from the SS trust fund. That might couse the feds to think twice before using the fund as a financing scheme to get themselves re-elected time after time.

29. Steve spews:

@26 Thanks. I’m going to try again to get in touch.

30. Puddybud spews:

Steve, You seem to forget in the poll

Warren still maintains an advantage, since Democrats in Massachusetts outnumber Republicans three to one.

3:1 and she’s only up by 5? Yeah she’s really winning!

31. Puddybud spews:

Steve,

You made Rachel you personal “Rachel project”. Many other HA libtards didn’t join you in your project but you stayed with it. Great job my friend!

32. Michael spews:

If you want your child to be free to criticize Christianity but to be subject to arrest and possibly prosecution for criticizing Islam,

If you’re speaking about the creator of that recent video he was arrested for violating his parole six ways to Sunday.

Remember the good old days when Republicans supported the rule of law and wanted parole violators locked up? I’m starting to miss that.

33. Politically Incorrect - free minds, free markets, free people spews:

“…he was arrested for violating his parole…”

Yeah, the guy might even survive the next few weeks or months while he’s in the slammer, but once he gets out, some Islamo-crazy is going to off him for insulting his or her “precious” religion. Ain’t religion grand? It gives us a way to carry out violence in the name of the supreme being.

Imagine if the Romans had had electricity instead of a cross. Christians would be walking aroung with a little “Old Sparky” replica around their necks. Would Catholics do the “Sign of the Old Sparky” instead of the Sign of the Cross? Just how would that work?

34. Puddybud spews:

Ain’t religion grand? It gives us a way to carry out violence in the name of the supreme being.

US? Or certain types?

35. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

Ain’t religion grand? It gives us a way to carry out violence in the name of the supreme being.

On this, PI, you and I agree.

As long as there is a widespread belief in Sky-Daddy there will be charlatans speaking for ‘Him’ and using “His Word” as a way to manipulate and exploit the followers, usually to disastrous effect.

Included in that violence is violence against truth, witnessed most clearly in this country as the widespread assault on teaching science – as the Bibul-thumpers would take over our schools and have us deny the reality and FACT of evolution and natural selection, of a 13-billion year old universe, and replace it with their particular stories and thereby ensconcing their superstitions and myths as the foundation for our society, rather than rational thought.

Now before anyone takes offense at this, I’ll say as I always do…If your god-belief leads you to love and peace and kindness, to making the world a better place, to fighting injustice and poverty and war and ignorance, then I’m right there with you.

My beef is with the self-righteous Bibul-thumpers, and Koran-thumpers, and all received-wisdom-thumpers, who do things like threaten their opponents with eternal hellfire and damnation when their Sky-Daddy returns in His Clouds O’Glory to smite all us leftists, for example, or who demand that the world is 6016 years old, or who stone rape victims for immorality (both literally and figuratively).

Note above poolboy’s question…

US? Or certain types?

“Certain types”

Apparently ‘certain types’ of religion carrying out violence is bad, but if it’s ‘US’, well, that appears to be another matter entirely….

The problem, in a nutshell.

36. rhp6033 spews:

PI @ 27:

rhp6033 said in 1:

“…but it all came up again later in 1860.”

It was actually April, 1861 when “it all came up again.” Just a minor correction. BTW, Andrew Jackson was born in South Carolina, most likely, but the border between NC and SC wasn’t “set in concrete” at that time.

The war may have started with the firing on Ft. Sumter in April 1861, but the seccession crisis actually started in S. Carolina during the lead-up to the Democratic convention that year. The party split upon geographic/slavery lines, with S. Carolina leading the southern branch of the party. When Lincoln won the election in Nov. 1860, S. Carolina began immediate steps to seceed from the Union, calling for a Constitutional Convention which resulted in a decleration of Secession.

I’m a little vague on the time line (other Southern states had conventions declaring secession followed up by a popular ratification vote, I’m not sure about S. Carolina), but by December 1860 the deed had been done, and S. Carolina declared itself an independent state. They still celebrate that day in S. Carolina with society balls where those attending dress in period costumes.

Other deep South states quickly followed suit, there’s some remarkable writing about how Robert E. Lee left Texas, still an officer in the Federal Army, with concerns about being arrested and held prisoner by the Texas authorities.

The “border” states (Tennessee, Virginia, etc.) didn’t declare for secession until after Lincoln’s call for trooops to put down the S. Carolina rebellion.

37. rhp6033 spews:

Oh, and in # 1, I should have said “nullification crisis”, which was the name of the first S. Carolina attempt to say it was greater than the federal government as a whole. The secessation crisis came in 1860.

38. Puddybud spews:

Apparently ‘certain types’ of religion carrying out violence is bad, but if it’s ‘US’, well, that appears to be another matter

Predictably, dunceman is a moron!

39. Liberal Scientist is a Dirty Fucking Socialist Hippie spews:

@38
Then explain what you meant, poolboy.