HA Bible Study

Nahum 1:2-6
The Lord is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and rage. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and continues to rage against his enemies!

The Lord is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished. He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm. The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet.

At his command the oceans dry up, and the rivers disappear. The lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wither.

In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed.

Who can stand before his fierce anger? Who can survive his burning fury? His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence.

Discuss.

Comments

  1. 1

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    The Lord is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and rage.

    But, but…I though God was synonymous with Love? What gives?

    All credulity aside, this is exactly the sort of god that the Christianists prefer – not the loving and forgiving and accepting one that Jesus seemed to represent, but rather a violent and vengeful deity – one that better reflects their world view and endorses their violent, xenophobic, vengeful tendencies.

    As one of their heroes, Lt. Gen Boykin said:

    I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol.

    My sky-daddy is bigger than your sky-daddy – nya-nya!

  2. 2

    Deathfrogg spews:

    The Lord is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and rage. He takes revenge on all who oppose him and continues to rage against his enemies!

    Fear.

    Be afraid. Do not anger the earthly representatives of God or the institutions they adhere to.

    Do not question their intentions or their motivations. Do not take any action or commit any thoughts to anything that runs counter to their desires and demands. Obey them at all times, in all things. Or be punished by them. Do not observe them in their sins, nor share observations of sin with others, for they cannot sin, as they are the sole purveyors of Gods word and will.

    So sayeth the lord.

    Huh, God sounds like a Chicago cop, or a Texas politician.

    Color me surprised.

  3. 3

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    The Lord is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished.

    Judgment.
    You Atheists don’t even believe in God so certainly you don’t believe in Judgment.
    In your minds, you can live any kind of life your desires & whims lead you to live.
    You have no moral compass.
    No stability.
    Just blow like chaff in the window.
    Living on feelings is like living on sinking sand.

    BTW, where did your “conscience” come from??
    As Atheists, the only reasonable answer is you don’t have one…right?
    If you think you have one, how did you get it??

  4. 5

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @2
    Oh, so true.

    The Military-Industrial Complex would be nowhere without religion.

    What better way to alienate regular old working people from each other than skin color and religion? And alienation – foreign-ness – is the first step the dehumanizing necessary to making it okay to kill them.

  5. 6

    headless lucy spews:

    re 3: Au contraire, penis breath. The current economic woes are God’s judgement upon unfettered free market capitalism.

  6. 7

    Lee spews:

  7. 8

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @ 3,4

    Ah Cynical, you sanctimonious shit.

    Your weaselly little mind cannot fathom kindness, compassion, honesty or any other virtue without someone telling you to exhibit those attributes. Under pain of eternal damnation.

    You do not seem capable of understanding the Golden Rule simply because it is good – you have to have some post-death reward to which to aspire. Or rather some post-death punishment to avoid. What a sad, shallow existence – you seem to be telling us that were it not for fear of judgment you would be fully unhinged and nasty and brutish.

    How sad for you that the urge to do good, the urge to compassion and generosity, are not endogenous to your being, but rather alien properties that you attempt to mimic out of fear of your own pain. Pathetic.

  8. 9

    God spews:

    Finally a good selection by Goldy!

    Yep, that is ME .. except for one thing.

    I am the One that makes the drought and the pestilence. I am also the One that creates the seeds in Lee’s marijuana and the hopps in Goldy’s beer.

    And yeh, if you drown or starve, that is My doping too.

    But the part about anger, vengeance and rage … that part is you seeing yourself in My image.

    I am the I am.

  9. 10

    God spews:

    Liberal Scientist

    Of course! I created the quark, DNA, and the Golden rule.

    I created Me.

    I am that I am.

  10. 11

    spews:

    I think in this one Goldy is suggesting the he is God-like in his power and anger. He repeatedly tells us he has “one of the most powerful and influential political blogs in Washington state.” And on a daily basis we bare witness to his rage and vengeance over not being hired by the Seattle Times, and his unrelenting fury over Darcy Burner’s college record being exposed, and let’s not forget the amen-bloggers crack.

    Can the Seattle Times survive his burning fury?

    Maybe yesterday’s heat baked his brain a little, but I’d say in this post Goldy is suggesting God is a lot like himself.

  11. 13

    God spews:

    Liberal Scientist

    Did the meaning escape you?

    I assume you know the story of the clever horse?

    I am that I am

  12. 15

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ #3

    If you believe people incapable of having a conscience without submitting to dogmatic belief systems, it is YOU who have no faith in humanity. Without faith in your fellow man, you are isolated from them.

    I have known many sociopaths, and can provide examples of many politicians and other outspoken individuals, who are devoutly religious, and rationalize their lack of empathy through their religious faith that they wear on their sleeve like a badge of honor.

    Such people are dangerous. They should never have been allowed to embed themselves in the national consciousness or in places of authority.

    Examples:

    Newt Gingrich
    Ronald Reagan
    Dick Cheney
    Prescott Bush
    George Herbert Walker Bush
    George Walker Bush
    Adolph Coors
    Henri Dupont
    Henry Anslinger
    William Randolph Hearst
    Rush Limbaugh
    Glen Beck
    Laura Ingraham
    Micheal Savage
    Micheal Medved
    Joseph McCarthy
    Richard Nixon
    Pat Robertson
    Brian Fisher
    Brent Bozell
    Don L. Blankenship
    William C. Proxmire
    George Dukemejian
    Sarah Palin
    Kevin James
    Hal Turner
    John Mccaine
    Dennis Prager
    Hugh Hewitt
    Mark Levin

    etc
    etc
    etc

    Ad fucking nauseum

    These people have no empathy. They cannot see the pain in others, they cannot fathom the problems that others face in the world, and openly denegrate such people. They often create the problems, then dismiss the issues out of hand without regard as to their own responsibility for the problems they themselves create.

    They have over the years, ingratiated themselves with people who always propose the stick over the carrot when speaking of social influence. And they all, to a person, demand blind obedience to authority and rationalize it through their alleged “faith in god”.

    Unless that authority has black skin, or speaks of social justice, or has real academic credentials in a particular subject currently being discussed when that individual disagrees with their uneducated and predetermined position.

    Playing the devils advocate in a conversation is perfectly acceptable. Unless you are doing it while holding a weapon and threatening to use it.

    Thats what religion is. Just another weapon.

  13. 17

    Unkl Witz spews:

    Cyn @3:

    The human traits of conscience, empathy & altruistic behavior as useful evolutionary traits are pretty well established Cyn. No need for an obvious Fairy Tale like the Gods of your Bible to explain them.

    Hope church was enjoyable. What was the sermon today?

  14. 18

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @15
    Don’t forget our own Miller Freeman, who spawned Kemper and Kemper Jr:

    The Anti-Japanese League was founded in 1916 by former Washington State legislator and director of the local United States Naval training facility, Miller Freeman.

    In the 1919 testimony, Freeman framed his animosity toward Japanese immigrants in the context of competition for control over the Pacific Rim: “To-day, in my opinion, the Japanese of our country look upon the Pacific coast really as nothing more than a colony of Japan, and the whites as a subject race.”

    Yet despite the military context, Freeman’s testimony in support of restricting Japanese immigration was based almost entirely upon economic rationalizations.

    I’m shocked, shocked.

    This was abetted in religious terms in the Seattle Star by George Mills:

    “religion and government in Japan have been one and the same in the past as well as the present.” Mills uses this premise to argue that any person of Japanese heritage who practices the Shinto religion will be ultimately devoted to the government of Japan.

    and

    “If our present policies with Japan continue indefinitely, it will only be a matter of time when at best we will be no better than a subject race.”

    Scary Yellow people with a weird religion want to come and take our stuff!! AARRRRGGGHHH!

  15. 19

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 17

    Probably some rambling diatribe about how the mexicans are all coming to America to steal our jobs and force us to use that liberal socialist metric system and turn us all into homosexuals on unemployment.

    Or something like that.

    Bear in mind the fact that Cynical is a Calvinist, not a Christian.

  16. 21

    Smartypants spews:

    @1, perpetrators of domestic violence often tell their victims that jealousy is a sign they really love them and the victims bring the violent reactions on themselves. The perp is acting in a corrective manner for the victims own good, the victim was asking for it.

    I think god needs an intervention and maybe a restraining order.

  17. 22

    Deathfrogg spews:

    @ 21

    I have long since decided that God, if it really exists, is more akin to a sociopathic little kid that somehow got ahold of his daddies gun and took it to school.

  18. 23

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @22
    That’s because god is created by those who worship him.

    sociopathic little kid

    Remind you of anyone?

  19. 24

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    You folks do realize you’re arguing with yourselves, don’t you?

    I mean, no-one is trying to force you to believe anything. No-one is rounding you up to take you to church, be it Catholic, Buddhist or whatever. No-one is forcing a single belief on you.

    Yet Goldy has this once a week masturbatory exercise in God haters thinking themselves clever for pretending all this is happening.

    Just some helpful advice-

    Go outside. The day is beautiful, whether God created it or some primordial electrified stew did. Go fishing, or hiking or putter around in your gardens.

    But seriously, the love/hate religion thing gets old.

  20. 25

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    Klynical and his ilk glory in their desire to be bathed in blood.

    That’s all you really need to know.

  21. 26

    Steve spews:

    Phyllis Shafly’s spawn rewrites the Bible for today’s conservative.

    http://www.conservapedia.com/B.....on_Project

    People like the Psycho-KLOWN blather on and on about how much they love the Bible and the constitution. Such utter nonsense. If they love them so much then why do they believe that they need to be rewritten? They have the gall to remove peace and love from the Bible and to turn it into a disgusting political screed about revenge, retribution, home schooling and commie-fascism. Now they have their sights set on our constitution.

  22. 27

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    All white christians are not KKK members, but all KKK members are white christians.

  23. 28

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    Just some helpful advice-

    Go outside. The day is beautiful. Go fishing, or hiking or putter around in your gardens.

    But seriously, the insipid cliche bullshit of ignorant fools gets really old.

  24. 29

    Steve spews:

    “But seriously, the love/hate religion thing gets old.”

    Ditto with your sanctimonious comments.

  25. 31

    YellowPup spews:

    The point about morality shows a weakness in how atheism is promoted by its exponents in the MSM. The professional atheists focus only on the question of the existence of God and don’t get into the meaning of morality and conscience to people who don’t need to use religion as a crutch.

    Think about how much more powerful virtue is when not compelled by fear or tradition. As Deathfrogg points out, the idea that you can’t be moral without doctrine shows how little religious folk really value human life.

  26. 32

    Sludge Puppy and the Scum Lords spews:

    Goldy I think you have a bad translation. I’ll get the good one later today. Have a nice day ;)

  27. 34

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Steve and Zotz,

    Sanctimonious, narcissistic, smug, arrogant and on and on and on. All without a scintilla of evidence to back it up, but evidence and facts get in the way of some progressives thoughts. They certainly don’t inform them.

    I’m insincere in my beliefs because you don’t like my writing style? Because you disagree with my worldview I’m diagnosed as narcissistic by a…sorry, what field of psychiatry do you practice, Steve? I always forget your specialty in the vast reaches of your general knowledge.

    I’m heading out hiking. You folks enjoy concentrating on the hatred of religion and miss this beautiful summer day if you like.

  28. 36

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey all you global warming deniers, how do you like this fucking ICE AGE we’re having? Oh, and if you liberals think fossil fuels caused this, guess again — GOD IS ANGRY! The questions, at who? My guess is He found out wht Mr. Cynical has been doing to His creatures in the goat shed …

  29. 37

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @34 “Sanctimonious, narcissistic, smug, arrogant and on and on and on.”

    You to a “t,” lost.

  30. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 Since when did YOU have a moral compass or conscience, goatfucker? I mean, after all, you voted for Bush …

  31. 39

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @24
    Au contraire, lost.

    Convincing people to betray their common humanity and embrace divisions – be it based on skin color, religion, what side of a border they were born on, or any other superficiality – is a common and powerful method of propaganda and control, particularly and viciously practiced by the American right-wing.

    Defining “good” religion from “bad”, and rewarding one or penalizing the other, is a daily fact in our culture, fucked up as it is.

    No-one is forcing a single belief on you.

    Bullshit.

    People are paying a cost daily for not hewing to the dominant imaginary belief systems – mostly Christianist in our society. And those of us who 1) reject the need to base morality on the dictates of an imaginary supernatural personality, and 2) reject the role of religion in public, political dialog as a corrosive, divisive force are going to discuss it in unvarnished, critical terms.

    Deal with it or go away. Make your case, but quit whining about it.

  32. 40

    Gman spews:

    Proof that Global Warming is God’s revenge and his hate towards Heterosexuals.

    God hates Heterosexuals.

  33. 41

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    @34: Boy, talk about projection!

    No one ever said you weren’t sincere. I think you’re totally, pathetically sincere.

    “You” don’t have a worldview, you’re just repeating cliche bullshit and calling it a “your” worldview. I doubt that you’ve ever had an original thought.

    BTW: You’re lying — again.

  34. 42

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @31
    Indeed.
    To be good for goodness sake, rather than avoiding ultimate punishment, is vastly more powerful.

    To embrace compassion and generosity and honesty out of respect for oneself, and out of respect for others’ basic humanity, seems vastly preferable to mouthing the words to avoid punishment – because if you don’t, sky-daddy is gonna trow you in a lake of fire or some such twattle.

  35. 43

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    This seems apropos (from a comment to Krugman’s blog post Aug 8):

    Professor, beware the reptilian brain. Nothing stimulates it as much as the remembrance of past actions dominated by it.

  36. 44

    Steve spews:

    “without a scintilla of evidence to back it up”

    Your sanctimonious, narcissistic, smug, arrogant and on and on and on comments are sufficient evidence, Lost.

    “I’m insincere in my beliefs because you don’t like my writing style?”

    No one ever said you weren’t sincerely sanctimonious, narcissistic, smug and arrogant. Of course, you’re writing style doesn’t help.

    “sorry, what field of psychiatry do you practice, Steve?”

    I’m not a psychiatrist, although I do have a degree in psychology and was deeply involved in the abreactive psychotherapy movement that emerged back in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. In a nutshell, I saw it at the time as a rejection of the neo-Freudian school, the interpretation of dreams and whatnot, to embrace his earlier work with Breuer. This led to my being part of a group which started a therapy center in Boulder in 1974 which later merged with one in Denver. I was working in engineering as well and in the years that followed dedicated myself to that profession instead of psychology. Why do you ask? Are you hoping to start some kind of on-line treatment or something? It might be a little awkward, I mean, I wouldn’t be able to hug you or anything, but I suppose we could give it a try.

  37. 45

    God spews:

    22. Deathfrogg spews:

    I have long since decided that God, if it really exists, is more akin to a sociopathic little kid that somehow got ahold of his daddies gun and took it to school

    .

    23. Liberal Scientist spews:

    That’s because god is created by those who worship him.

    Point and counterpoint.

    I am not evil, but there is good in the world.

    I am that I am.

  38. 46

    Michael spews:

    We had a good service down at the creek worshiping up some Aqua Buddha love.

    Aqua Buddha= the true god of love (and bong hits!).

  39. 48

    Steve spews:

    “That would be the implanted microchip”

    I figure exploding, womb monitoring chip implants for women is where Lost is headed with his “abortion is murder” beliefs. Blow those bitches up! heh- It’s little wonder our faux-libertarian won’t share his vision of what an America where abortion is murder would be like.

  40. 50

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Umm Steve,

    Try looking up polysyllabic words you clearly don’t understand before using them. Zotz, you might take a hint here as well.

    Sanctimonious means insincere use of religion for other purposes.

    Otherwise, the offer for counseling is one I’ll have to regretfully decline. I can’t see this session as being helpful to me-

    Steve- Go ahead and lie down on the sofa and we’ll discuss your traumitic infant experiences with your father/mother/dog/pet goldfish. These are the root of your narcissism and related neurosis. Well, these and Dick Cheney. And George Bush and Reagan. And Global Warming.

    Lost- Umm. I actually don’t remember anything from infancy. My dad is a good man who I love, and my mother a good woman whom I love as well. My childhood dog was great, and I never had pet fish. Anyway, do you usually diagnose a disorder without actually knowing anything about the patient? Do you have any idea what you’re talking about at all?

    Steve- So your problems were caused by George Bush and Reagan then?

    Lost- What the hell? I was born before either was president. They’re both good and decent men. You’re an idiot. Is that a dictionary you’re using to look up ‘idiot?’ Oh my God, what a moron.

    See, Steve. This would be a waste of our time. And I’d hate to take away from your valuable time helping others with their pschiatric, (or was it engineering?) problems. Thanks anyway!

    BTW, you ever try to hug me, you’ll come away missing arms, old buddy.

  41. 51

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    re 39

    Is this a fair understanding of your point.

    You chose atheism, presumably after some period of thought and study. This belief system comports more readily with your perception of the world around you.

    No direct force is used to convert you to Christianity or any other faith. Yet, because you live in a country where most identify as Christian you pay a daily price for this choice.

    Two things occur to me. First, your choice, your consequences. If a person chooses to set themselves at odds with the culture in which they live, some feeling of being outcast is more or less inevitable. Nor is it the fault of the culture or the responsibility of the government of it to resolve this for you.

    Second, the divisions of which you speak are also inevitable. That religion practices them is regrettable, but hardly original to religion. Religion is man made institution, not God himself. Therefore it will be flawed. Sorry, thems the realities.

  42. 52

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Having taken the kids hiking they’re wanting to go swimming, so the rest of the afternoon is yours. Please feel free to misrepresent, twist, ignore or otherwise evade arguing anything I’ve said. Have a nice day.

  43. 53

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    BTW, you ever try to hug me, you’ll come away missing arms, old buddy.

    Wow – a gesture of peace and support met with treats of grievous physical injury. So many layers of sick – too much to unpack.

  44. 54

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    Sanctimonious means insincere use of religion for other purposes.

    sanc·ti·mo·nious

    Miriam-Webster:
    1 : hypocritically pious or devout

    Wiktionary:
    1. Making a show of being morally better than others, especially hypocritically pious.

    Thefreedictionary.com
    1. affecting piety or making a display of holiness

    Oxford dictionary online
    making a show of being morally superior to other people

    I do not think that word means with you think it means – Inigo Montoya

  45. 55

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @51 Lostinaseaofsanctimony

    No, no, no – understanding continues to elude your grasp.

    No direct force is used to convert you to Christianity or any other faith. Yet, because you live in a country where most identify as Christian you pay a daily price for this choice.

    You think very…concretely. This issue is not that there is a Homeland Security force that compels me to attend church or pray (yet). The issue is that religion is used to keep people stupid, to keep people docile, to keep people factionalized.

    Let’s not even talk about my personal experience. Rather, the lower Manhattan Islamic center. That community is doing everything legally and above board, and they have a reasonable expectation that that is sufficient, and that they can build their facility on the land they’ve legally acquired. However, they have to defend themselves and their community simple because a bunch of Christianists demand that they somehow don’t enjoy the same rights as everyone else, because they, along with about a billion other people on the planet, pray in similar ways to the fanatics who flew planes into buildings.

    Their (the Islamic community of lower Manhattan) rituals in appeasing their version of the sky-daddy are superficially similar to those practiced by a bunch of criminals. But they have to go to great lengths to appease the adherents of the dominant Christian mythology, because they’re a minority. See a problem, lost?

  46. 56

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @51 Lostinaseaofsanctimony (more)

    Second, the divisions of which you speak are also inevitable. That religion practices them is regrettable, but hardly original to religion. Religion is man made institution, not God himself. Therefore it will be flawed. Sorry, thems the realities.

    Paraphrasing, religion is a creation of man, but we cannot change it’s nature, because that’s the way it is.

    What an abject failure of imagination. What a profoundly sad statement regarding the aspirations of those that adhere to religion.

    We are going to continue to careen toward disaster as a species as long as the dominant way of thinking continues to parallel lost’s.

    Squabbling masses of the irrational, manipulated by the sociopaths willing to play them for fools.

    That’s why I rail against organized religion.

  47. 57

    spyder spews:

    lostinaseaofblue

    Dude you were leaving here at 9:06 and yet you are still here. What is your freaking problem; go outside, now.

  48. 58

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    RE 56

    “We are going to continue to careen toward disaster as a species as long as the dominant way of thinking continues to parallel lost’s.”

    Now there’s a boost for my ego! Not only do you disagree with the fairly obvious notion that choosing to set oneself at odds with his or her culture has consequences-

    I’m personally responsible for the ‘careening toward disaster’ of….what? Seattle? Washington State? The country? Am I personally responsible for mythical global warming? Cool! Here I thought I was a fairly insignificant carpenter and businessman. In fact, I’m destroying the whole world! I’ll have to brush up on my evil laughter, I guess.

    Thanks, Liberal Scientist! My wife will be astonished to learn that I have that much influence.

    BTW, your paraphrase isn’t. It’s your interpretation. Buddhists, Christians, Muslims and so on are using humanly created finite institutions to find the meaning of God, the infinite. That they fail isn’t astonishing. That they keep trying in the face of that failure is. It is the thing that might actually save the world from your hyperbolic careen towards disaster, not cause it.

  49. 59

    Steve spews:

    @50 “Umm Steve, Try looking up polysyllabic words you clearly don’t understand before using them. Zotz, you might take a hint here as well.”

    @54 “54. Liberal Scientist spews:

    “sanc·ti·mo·nious”

    LMFAO!!

  50. 60

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    RE 59

    And as usual with Lib Sci, he misses the forest for the trees. All of his definitions include insincerity.

    You really are a dolt, Steve.

  51. 61

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    re 57

    Here’s the thing. I’m at my cabin where I can go outside for a hike and then, follow this closely, come back inside for a moment. It’s a technological thing.

    But you folks are wasting my time anyway, so this time, Ciao.

  52. 63

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    @58, completelylost:

    That they fail isn’t astonishing. That they keep trying in the face of that failure is.

    That is the definition of insanity, but not particularly astonishing.

  53. 64

    Steve spews:

    I’ll be damned if that post of Lost’s @50 didn’t go into KLOWN territory. But I’ve known for some time that he had it in him. In fact, with a little prodding, I bet we could have him posting in the third person.

  54. 66

    Steve spews:

    Cathlolics, Dominionists and Reconstructionists, oh my! Wasted on Lost, of course. For him such extremist Christian beliefs don’t exist. He has told us that he’s never heard of them. He has said that for us to even discuss extremist right-wing Christians and their desire to transform America into a theocracy only confirms what he sees as progressive paranoia. He’s probably just lying. Either that, or he’s just too fucking ignorant for words.

  55. 68

    Unkl Witz spews:

    Lib @65:

    Stuff like this is why some of us take a pretty active roll in campaigning against the Biblical fairy tales and why we regard folks like Lost & Puddy with contempt and disgust.

  56. 69

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    He’s probably just lying. Either that, or he’s just too fucking ignorant for words.

    completelylost isn’t lying, he’s just passing along the shit pile of glibertarian platitudes from the comfy little echo chamber he lives in.

    What’s funny (and pathetic) is how “astonished” he is that he get’s called on it.

  57. 70

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    @65: That is a jaw dropper @PZ’s place (I surfed by there earlier). PZ does his usual adroit fisking, but it’s not in any way funny. It borders on treason, IMO.

  58. 71

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    re 63

    Definition of insanity? In the physical world, sure. But continually trying to be a better husband or father or employer/employee while coming short of the mark isn’t insane. Continually trying to find the academic answers to questions of physics or mathematics isn’t insane in the face of failure.

    These and the search for what God might be, while failing to do so, are part of the human condition. By trying we come a step closer than by giving the quest up as impossible.

    That is, unless we are you, apparently.

  59. 72

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 64

    Oh Steve, did I hurt your feelings? What, no sense of humor?

    Re 66

    Equating Catholism with extremist Christianity? Mostly those who profess to be Catholic that I know are more moderate in their Christianity, but okay, have it your way.

    No, I don’t know about either sect you mention. I could google them, I suppose. What I infer is that they wish to establish theocracy. If so, they don’t represent Christianity as I or anyone I know understands it. It’s gimmicky to pull out a few out of whack loonies, try to paint them as the face of Christianity, and make your assumptions accordingly. But you know, intellectual honesty is hardly your calling, so I suppose allowances must be made.

    Where I grew up calling an honest man a liar was a fighting phrase. But I’ve since learned that if an accusation lacks grounds it is more indicative of the status of the accuser than the accused.

    And yes, if the left thinks anyone serious, with the ability to do so, is trying to establish a theocracy in the US, they are paranoid. Though I’ve never said that before. But hey, what I’ve said and what you read are not connected by any bands of reality, so have fun with it, eh Steve?

  60. 73

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 69

    When did you ever ‘call’ anyone on anything. You haven’t the intellectual equipment, Zotz. About all you can manage is ad hominem attacks vainly attempting to deflect attention from your total absense of real argument.

  61. 74

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 68

    Contempt? Disgust? Back at you, buddy.

    You are every bit as dogmatic as Glen Beck or the most right wing televangelist. You’ve chosen science as your article of faith, instead of religion. But the attitude you exhibit is no more representative of the great scientists than Beck of conservative thought. Curiousity, a desire to know, the willingness to suspend judgement until sufficient facts are in, these are the characteristics of what made science the humanizing and bettering influence it has been. You know no more of that than you do of a street map of Taipei.

  62. 75

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 65

    OMG!!! You found a loonie on the internet of all places!!! What a find, Liberal Scientist!!!! Stop the presses, the internet has distasteful, stupid or crazy people putting stuff on it!!!!!

    I used to enjoy discourse with you. I suppose the whole gay marriage thing pissed you off, but really, you can’t do better than this?

  63. 76

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @72

    And yes, if the left thinks anyone serious, with the ability to do so, is trying to establish a theocracy in the US, they are paranoid.

    I would direct you here, and that’s just a single example.

    I don’t think we, who have deep suspicions regarding the mixing of religion and politics and the consequent threats to democracy, are paranoid. To deny them, I think, is either naive or disingenuous. And that is one of the central criticisms of your posts by others here – you are often interpreted as making dishonest claims of ignorance regarding pernicious actions by Christians/Republicans.

  64. 78

    Unkl Witz spews:

    Blue @74:

    Yes, contempt and disgust. And I’ve no doubt the feeling is mutual.

    We hardly need the Bible or any organized religion to strive to be better parents, more charitable to our neighbors, or “better employees”, whatever that means.

    The Bible and organized religion was never about a “loving father who created the universe” but rather a mechanism of social and political control, usually at the expense of the common man.

    When the church had control, they were happy to exterminate those who did not comply. Now they no longer have that control, they are somewhat more diplomatic. But I have no doubt they would return to their old ways, if given the chance.

  65. 79

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    RE 76

    “And that is one of the central criticisms of your posts by others here – you are often interpreted as making dishonest claims of ignorance regarding pernicious actions by Christians/Republicans.”

    Make what interpretations people want to I’m a christian, not a secret head of an order that organizes all christian sects throughout the globe. I know the folks who go to the church I do or churches I’ve gone to. I know people from work and social settings that say they are christian. I know what I believe to be the basic beliefs that make one a christian. So if some weird group goes around calling themselves christian by names like Dominionist or Reconstructionist or Fellowship and I’m unaware of them it isn’t surprising. Nor is it naive. I can be partially responsible for the actions of christians with whom I associate. Otherwise I don’t spend an awful lot of time looking for christian conspiracies.

    With regard to Republicans you’re off base. I’ve frequently criticised Republican leadership and media both on policy grounds and on grounds of approach.

    I, too, believe in the separation of church and state. I’m not fanatical about it to the point of ignoring cultural realities, but the principle is a sound and necessary one in a democracy.

  66. 80

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 78

    I wouldn’t say contempt and disgust so much as indifference. But not because of what you believe. I have atheist friends with whom long and interesting discussions can be had. I have liberal friends with whom I’ve discussed without rancor our respective positions.

    People like you who castigate dogmatism in others without recognizing it in themselves don’t interest me. People like you who decide that anyone with whom you disagree is doing so to irritate you or destroy society don’t have anything to say that I can listen to without impatience.

    So you know, I never mentioned the Bible. In fact I mentioned several religions that don’t use that text. I believe Christianity to the be the single approach to God, but respect others rights to believe differently, or not at all. That’s the difference between us.

  67. 82

    Zotz sez: Puddybud is just another word for arschloch spews:

    @80: That just gushed pussy juice! You just have no clue, do you!?

  68. 83

    Liberal Scientist spews:

    @74 lostinaseaofdrivel

    WTF?
    Once again you trot out that canard about accepting science as an article of faith, equating it with the faith in the existence of a personal, transcendent god that you embrace.

    Nothing alike between the two, I’m afraid.

    Science is a tool for understanding our world. It’s a methodology, subject to refinement and validation. And it works at that really really well.
    We liberals tend to use the cool stuff we learn about the world (via the scientific method), like climate change, economics, medical research and the like, to inform our thinking about how to bring about a sustainable, egalitarian world. Those goals, BTW, are derived from an ethics and morality that may or may not be linked to god-belief, but they certainly can be arrived at without god.

    Religious faith by definition is accepting something as fact despite the absolute absence of evidence. And organized religion is far too often a tool for enforcing the status quo. In particular the right-wing brand of conspicuous religiosity is judgmental, exclusionary and all too often violent.

  69. 85

    sj spews:

    @83 LibSci

    Good post.

    I do disagree on one issue.

    Religious faith by definition is accepting something as fact despite the absolute absence of evidence.

    This statement is true of Christianity and of Islam. Many, perhaps most, other religions are .. well … more scientific.

    Buddhism began with the effort of Siddhartha to identify inner mechanisms that determine suffering. His method is actually very, very much like modern science .. certainly if you consider Freud a scientist you need to consider Siddartha one.

    Judaism evolved and still does from a Buddha and science like driven exploration fo the truths in the Torah. The great teachers . Maimonides, Halevi, Spinoza .. along with the founders of modern reform Judaism, insisted that Torah was only true when it was consistent with the direct observations of science.

    Christianity, of course, has also evolved … natural law, the basis for the enlightenment and for the founding of this nation, grew from Christian routes.

    The sad thing is the sort of fantasy world devout Christians and Muslims live in. Hey, as a scientist, if I KNEW that the story of Mohamed was true then what choice would I have but to follow the tit ans tittle of thge Quran?

    And organized religion is far too often a tool for enforcing the status quo.

    Certainly this is true if Islam and Christianity, both of which arose as efforts by generals of emperors to control their people.

    In particular the right-wing brand of conspicuous religiosity is judgmental, exclusionary and all too often violent.

    Yep.

  70. 86

    Milo spews:

    The Church of God the Utterly Indifferent. . . The two chief teachings of this religion are these: Puny man can do nothing at all to help or please God Almighty, and Luck is not the hand of God. [Kurt Vonnegut, The Sirens of Titan]

  71. 87

    spews:

    The Lord is a jealous God. Many are asking if he is really a God of love if he takes vengeance. Yes, the Lord is a God of Love he took vengeance on our sin himself at the cross on Calvary’s mountain. He punished our sin through the crucifixtion of Jesus. He is just to punish sin, but loves us enough to take our punishment. Many seek to understand God through natural wisdom and understanding. However, we must realize the bible is a spiritual book with hidden, spiritual wisdom contained therein. Here is a great bible study website that opens up the hidden, spiritual wisdom of the word of God.