by Goldy, 03/27/2006, 11:01 AM

I haven’t spent much time following this weekend’s Capital Hill shootings, because… well… I generally don’t enjoy reading media coverage of random horrors such as this. It’s heart-wrenching. It’s depressing. And the coverage usually doesn’t teach us all that much about what really happened, other than the details.

Instead, I prefer to wait until the play or the song or the poem comes out, because quite frankly, artists do a much better job of making sense of these tragedies than journalists.

Still, I was reluctantly browsing through the copious coverage on Slog this morning, when I came across a couple of posts from Dan and Josh, criticizing the Seattle Times editorial board for their “pathetic,” “reactionary,” so-called soul-searching.

An armed madman goes on a shooting rampage at a private house party… and what lesson did the wise and solemn scribblers at the Times learn from this tragedy?

Teen dance rules in our city must be thoroughly reviewed to see if they go far enough to protect young people. One of the six victims was apparently a 15-year-old Bellevue girl. What precautions or rules could have helped her? Could anyone protect her at a private party at a private home?

[...]

At this point, our community has to rethink late-night activities of young people. We must do what we can to prevent such a horrific incident from happening again.

Uh-huh.

Hmm. Let’s see if I can come up with a hypothetical parallel.

I’ve had the privilege of being invited to a couple of editorial board interviews over the past few years. Now suppose I were to show up for one at the Times, armed to the hilt, and in a homicidal rage over say — dishonest efforts to repeal the estate tax — I were to mow down two generations of Blethens and their assembled editorialists? Do you really suppose that the next morning they’d publish an editorial suggesting that our community “rethink the activities of editorial boards”…?

No, of course not. They’d all be dead.

But this practical consideration aside, such a blame-the-victim editorial would be patently absurd. The cause of the tragedy wouldn’t be the editorial board, it would be the armed nutcase. (In this case, me.)

As Dan points out, a reasonable reaction to the tragic shootings might be to discuss gun control or the adequacy of our mental health services. But…

Is anyone shocked to discover that the old farts at the Seattle Times searched their creaky old souls and came up with the same old garbage? Young people are scary. Their parties are scary. Teenagers shouldn’t be out of the house after 10 PM. The city should do something about it.

Pathetic.

Pathetic indeed. And if anybody at the Times takes issue with me, I’d be happy to come down to your offices and discuss this face to face.

154 Responses to “Guns don’t kill people, teen dances do”

1. DJ spews:

First off, you still have no idea what the owners told the kids. You also only know there was a keg at the house. Was it a full keg they had for the afterhours event? Or was it an old keg from another event? Was there even an event? I talked to some production people from CHAC and it sounds far more like just people who lived in the house, produced the rave and a few friends were there. Not much of a party. I don’t know, but I know you don’t either.

And you don’t know pot was being smoked at the party. You know the police said they found pot at the house. Where? In a sock drawer or lit in a burning pipe? Really, we don’t know.

Even if there was pot smoking and some people drinking beer, I disagree it was foolish to invite the kids in. And I am sure the kids parents do as well. I would far rather have my 14 year old in that house than I would at a bus stop on capitol hill between 4-6 am.

If you’ve never drank beer or smoked pot, fine. I would venture to think a lot of people on this board have. But you are now just saying they made some bad choices which is far from your implication that the guys were child molesters pushing drungs onto young girls.

2. momus spews:

DJ,

I am 37, 3 years younger than you and I would never put myself in the situation these peope did.

I’m not saying anything was going on either.

What I am saying is that the people who ran this after hours party made several really bad (fatal in this case) decisions.

We know from on scene interviews that there was a keg for the after hours party.

From these same interviews, we know, at the very least that pot was being smoked at the party.

Both situations are completely wrong for a mid 30′s of adult, to invite a young teenager to. Even if they said, hey, don’t do this….

Had the tennants of this house/hosts of this party, shown even the smallest amount of maturity at least two of these kids would be alive today.

3. DJ spews:

I am 40. And I have put on a lot of events where there are kids. If I saw some kids who were at one of my events waiting out in the cold in a dangerous neighborhood, you bet I’d invite them to wait for the bus or their ride at my house.

We know this is what happened. We don’t know what else. We know little about the parents. We know little about the kids’ states of minds. We know nothing about what the kids told the guys at the house. Without knowing that stuff we can’t judge them.

I can think of many scenarios where the house owners were doing the right thing by inviting the kids back to their house. I can think of a few where they weren’t. Your assumption is only of the worse, and you make this assumption while ignoring the facts we have so far. I am not concluding there was or wasn’t something bad going on here. But so far, from the facts we currently have, it looks like nothing was. I am not willing to villify reportedly good people publicly until I know something different. You are. That’s too bad for the people around you I suppose. I just hope everyone can sit back and gather all the facts before we come to incorrect conclusions. We shouldn’t attack people who cannot defend themselves. We shouldn’t villify the parents or find blame where there is none. We should find out as much as we can about what happend and then look at all the info and see if there is any blame to cast on anyone by the shooter.

I feel this way about the guns, the parents, the dance, etc. The press needs to hype this stuff as much as possible to sell papers. I hope the community doesn’t buy into that hype and thinks for themselves.

4. momus spews:

DJ…

Here’s a little nugget you may want to chew on….

You want to help a 14 year old who you stumble upon at 4 A.M.?

Let them use your cell phone or call their friggin parents and arrange to have them picked up.

Seriously how old are you? This is what is called, acting like an adult.

5. DJ spews:

Momus, you are assuming a lot. There is pot at MY house, and I don’t even smoke it. And I have beer too. I am sure there is pot at a lot of people’s houses who are fine people. If I lived on Capitol Hill, saw a few kids waiting at a bus stop I knew wouldn’t be able to get on a bus for several hours, should I leave them on Capitol Hill outside in the cold alone? Seems to me I would be doing a bad thing by leaving them at the bus stop rather than inviting them into my house where they would be safe and warm. Since the bus stop was near the house, and the kids were probably dressed as zombies, Huff probably would have shot them first. If he did, and then was stopped by the cops, and word got out that these guys didn’t invite the kids to their home, I bet they would get blamed for their deaths.

The things is, lots of people are jumping to conclusions without any facts. They don’t lock people up for inviting 14 and 15 year olds into their homes. They lock them up for giving them illegal drugs or alcohol or sexually abusing them. As far as anyone knows this did not happen. Until we know what happened I think it is bullshit to judge the victims.

6. momus spews:

DJ,

Seriously, have you no shame?

No drugs ar the house? Police found marijuan a at the house, last time I checked that was a…. what’s that word? Oh yeah, drug.

Would pot have set off Kyle Huff? No friggin way.

Would a 32 or 36 year old be a “great person” asking a 14 year old to come back to a house where a keg has been tapped and there is dope being smoked?

These kids were 14 and 15 years old. Don’t they lock pople up for that?

I want to be clear. I am not blaming the victims, but Christ, at least have the decency to call a pathetically stupid decision at face value.

7. momus spews:

X…

I’d like to hear a response to Cynical’s question as well?

8. righton spews:

At 7am my kids are getting ready for Sunday School… :)

9. momus spews:

“I see. I know a lot about psychology.”

Always a warning sign. Psycholgists and psycholgy students are usually fucked up beyond belief….

“You are angry with yourself over drugs and you callously project it onto targets from the media.”

Nope. Don’t regret it for a second and if I were still able to do drugs recreationally, I would. They made a lot a fun times a lot more fun and certainly, what would a Grateful Dead show have been without LSD?

Unfortunately, we all grow up.

However, I can absolutely see how someone, with say, a Borderline personality disorder, who is abusing a drug, like Crystal Meth, where delusions are a side affect, could combine those two and go off on something like this.

And X…. while your preaching about all this..

How about the 15 year old girl? What the fuck was she doing there?

10. X spews:

MOMUS> I’ve done a lot of drugs in my past.

I see. I know a lot about psychology. You are angry with yourself over drugs and you callously project it onto targets from the media.

MOMUS> It’s not a random guess why these kids were up @ 6 AM on a saturday morning.

It’s two wrong guesses from a typical right-wing asshat. Jason was asleep in an armchair in the living room. Jeremy was out on the porch smoking a cigarette. The house rule was all smoking had to be on the porch.

11. X spews:

Momus.

Shut your mouth. I have been to 2112 E Republican St, and two of the victims had been to my house as guests.

The party was a costume party with techno music. Yes, people there were drinking, smoking grass, and otherwise enjoying themselves. None of them brought any pump-action shutguns to the party.

The reason there is an after-hours party is because the people who threw the party go to their home afterward. Usually, they invite their friends to come home and hang out with them. This makes for a smaller crowd of “just friends.”

Why Huff decided to kill the people who threw a great costume party is something he took to the grave. My honest guess is that he was ticked off that he got invited to the house party, but nobody waved a magic wand and made him cool like he imagined he would be.

The simple fact here is that Kyle Huff was carrying a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun, bandolier straps of shells, two assault rifles with military-capacity clips, and a handgun.

You would not find any of these ‘bad rave kids’ carrying any killing tools. We may have blinking lights that you think are weird, but honestly nobody asked for your ass-backwards opinion. As a group, none of us are gun-toting redneck madmen.

You mentioned the poor 15-year old who was out so late. I was amazed at the comments relating to her in the newspaper. We don’t need more laws relating to her situation, I would take that up with someone else.

12. momus spews:

@24…

I’ve done a lot of drugs in my past.

It’s not a random guess why these kids were up @ 6 AM on a saturday morning.

13. DT spews:

I was hoping against hope that Dori Monson didn’t use this as another chance to blame the victims for making poor choices or something to that effect. Predictably, however, that is what he is doing on the radio today. I think he is a dispicable human being. This is a very sad time for families and friends of the victims, not an opportunity for people to make political hay. My sympathy to everybody involved. I am too old to go to raves, but I was once young, too, and did a lot of things that might have led to being exposed to danger. That’s part of growing up. homesteadbook.com

14. ArtFart spews:

“It’s not a random guess why these kids were up @ 6 AM on a saturday morning.”

Probably bacause we old farts weren’t.

15. rhp6033 spews:

We still don’t know why this guy did what he did. (I would be interested to see the results of the toxocology exam, though). As for the firearms, coincidentally the guy on trial in North Carolina for running down people with his car said he did it (i.e., used a car) because he couldn’t get a firearm.

But the party didn’t cause the murders. The rave didn’t cause the murders. The guns appeared to all have been legal. So we are left with one man who went beserk for no reason we know of (yet). The man showed no prior history of mental illness. So regulation of raves, private parties, or firearms won’t change that.

But there is NO WAY I would let my teenage kids go to an all night party – not because I was concerned about a mass-murderer, but because of the other dangers out there. They are still alive at 20 & 22, pretty well-rounded kids in college and with jobs, still alive and drug-free, so I guess I should give myself at least a “C” in the kid-raising department. Others aren’t so lucky despite their best efforts.

16. Roger Rabbit spews:

“Old farts.” You got that right, Goldy. You could have added, “old fart Republicans.” I’m surprised they didn’t say, “This senseless tragedy proves that dancing is the work of the Devil. Dancing must be banned!”

17. Roger Rabbit spews:

13

“Be careful of this slippery slope. Next thing we know, you’ll be moving to the eastside and registering repub.” Commentby Lys— 3/27/06@ 12:20 pm

What makes you think Goldy’s idea is a Republican idea? What the Times wrote is a Republican idea. The way you identify a Republican idea is too look for dumbass ideas — there’ll be a Republican behind every one of ‘em.

18. Roger Rabbit spews:

This is the same mentality that whipped Indian kids for speaking their own language 100 years ago.

19. Larry the Cable Guy spews:

“Guns don’t kill people: husbands that come home early do!”

20. Roger Rabbit spews:

Liberals don’t need gun control. Liberals need to arm, because there’s more where this one came from, and they’re talking about killing liberals.

21. Roger Rabbit spews:

3

“Ad that concktail to someone who already has emotional issues and access to firemarms and it’s a recipe for disaster.” Commentby momus— 3/27/06@ 11:13 am

So is a cokehead in the White House. I’m surprised he hasn’t pushed the nuclear button yet.

22. Roger Rabbit spews:

7

“You LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS will have all kinds of fun disecting”

What’s there to dissect? A madman shot a bunch of people, then shot himself.

23. Roger Rabbit spews:

Momus Pompous Assus @11

You seem to know a lot about drugs …

24. momus spews:

@16….

Hey shitbird….

I’ve never said there were anywhere but a private, after hours party, riding out whatever tey were high on.

So what’s my point?

The guman was an emotionally disturbed 28 year old tweaking out on something.

The party goers were stil high on something.

Explain away all you want, but one of the victims was a 15 year old girl.

What the fuck is a 15 year old girl doing at a party at 6 AM?

25. Voter Advocate spews:

11.

The rave or teen dance ended at 4:00AM, the killings took place at a private residence 3 hours later.

You really can inform yourself of the circumstances and stop looking like a fool:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/264472_rave27.html

26. ArtFart spews:

Personally, I’m surprised so far at the local media’s comparative restraint. On the other hand, the national media on Sunday night appeared to be launching into a feeding frenzy. I was especially disgusted with NBC’s juxtaposition of its sensational coverage with Matt Lauer’s third-degree grilling of Terri Schiavo’s husband for the umpteen bazillianth time.

Of course, no doubt our esteemed mayor is drooling all over himself at the prospect of another excuse to continue making Seattle Safe for Boring People.

27. dj spews:

Mr. Cynical @ 93

“dj has posted hundreds of comments….and one or two even made sense!! Frankly DJ (CAPITALS), if I were you I’d use a different name to save yourself the embarrassment.”

Actually, Cynical, you make an excellent point, sort-of. The best reason for DJ to not use that screen name is so that he/she is not held responsible for my comments!

28. Mr. Cynical spews:

You LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS will have all kinds of fun disecting and re-disecting this tragedy. Your opinions on:
1) Parenting
2) Morality
3) Guns
4) Law Enforcement
5) Drugs
6) Music
7) KOOKS

Your opinions will be quite comical…..especially those of you who never had kids or bothered to raise yours.

29. JDB spews:

Admit it Momus, you are just upset that you don’t get invited to parties.

30. Lys spews:

I have to agree. I can’t believe I’m writing this, but Goldy, this time you are right.

Be careful of this slippery slope. Next thing we know, you’ll be moving to the eastside and registering repub.

31. Richard Pope spews:

Keep your guns at home, X. Especially when you are high on drugs after partying all night long with kids half your age.

32. JDB spews:

Yes, if everyone was like Ms. Chickenhawk’s mother, they would keep their children in the basement, and never let them out into the world where they might encounter different ideas, open expression, girls or sunlight.

Let’s face it, the killer was going to blow away somebody. He decided on a house party. If he decided on a Denny’s, would we be calling for tighter enforcement of 24 hour diners? Show some causation first.

Otherwise, I guess you can argue that since he used a shotgun, he was inspired by all those wingnuts arguing that “it happens all the time” when Cheney blasted an old guy in the face.

33. momus spews:

You poitically correct liberal, FAGS…

here’s a newsflash…

A party that’s going on @ 5, 6 & 7 AM? And you saying there were no drugs?

Give me a friggin break.

The reason there were no drugs and only traces of marijuana found at the location?

They did already did all of their other drugs and were waiting to come down….

That’s the bad part about drugs, you run out of them eventually.

34. X spews:

Wow. So now a 32-year-old can’t be killed in the same room as a 15-year-old.

Richard Pope, I will destroy you, you bullshit asshat of a politician.

35. Karl spews:

What about mom and dad who let the 15 year old kid out all night?

My daughter is the same age, and not only would I never consider letting her stay out all night, she would not consider asking.

The dance wasnt the issue here, you got it right Goldy.

36. rujax206 spews:

BIAW’s Dick is ranting again! Issue the Bile-hazard suits.

37. Nicholas Beaudrot spews:

Weren’t they out at like 5 or 7 in the morning? And was it even at a place of business? This is far beyond what those sorts of laws are intended to regulate.

38. Voter Advocate spews:

3.

Among the people who [i]do[/i] know what occured at the strictly controlled, security guard patroled, medics in attendance event, your description of a rave is antique.

39. Will spews:

This “momus” believes he knows what the entire techno scene is all about.

“teen dance” refers to the legal definition of dances that are regulated by the All Ages Dance Ordinance. The house party has nothing to do with the AADO, and the rave event earlier has nothing to do with the murders.

40. rujax206 spews:

How the fuck do you know “momus”…were you THERE?

Shit-for-brains.

41. BV spews:

Wow, except for the gun control comment I completely agree with you.

42. momus spews:

Goldy,

If you are going to call a spade a spade, at least do it right.

A rave is not a “teen dance”, it’s a bunch of kids (teens, 20 & 30 somethings), tweaking out on designer drugs (X, crytsal meth, coke, LSD, etc….)

Why is there an afterhours house party after a rave? Becuase this kids were still way too high to go home.

Ad that concktail to someone who already has emotional issues and access to firemarms and it’s a recipe for disaster.

43. Will spews:

This is one awful event. The Seattle Times doesn’t know what a ‘rave’ is anyhow. They’re flying blind.

There are way more questions than answers right now regarding these killings.

44. Richard Pope spews:

GARY LOCKE DONATES $10 MILLION TO MIKE MCGAVICK SENATE CAMPAIGN

Look at Page 12 of the Safeco proxy statement report that the Washington State Democrats linked in their story about the $10 million dollars in bonus compensation that was given to outgoing Chair Mike McGavick after he announced to run for U.S. Senate against Maria Cantwell:

http://ccbn.10kwizard.com/cgi/convert/pdf/SAFECOCORPDEF14A.pdf

Former DEMOCRAT Governor Gary Locke was named to the Safeco Board of Directors in February 2005 as one of their 10 members. Locke was a board member for every single vote that approved McGavick’s outsized termination bonuses so that he could run against Cantwell. And Locke is certainly not the only Democrat on the Safeco board.

Looks like Cantwell could be in a lot of trouble if prominent Democrats like Locke are supporting and financing Cantwell’s campaign. Especially when notorious insurance opponent Aaron Dixon will be siphoning away some votes on the left with his Green Party candidacy.

45. Mr. Cynical spews:

As a parent 4 times over….and as a guy with a real good memory of my youth, I can assure you kids way back when and kids now find many ways to sneak out of the house.
The #1 trick our kids tried was to say they were sleeping over at a friends house. That is the oldest one in the books! My wife & I busted each of our 4 kids on that one by simply calling over to the house they were allegedly going to sleep at and find the folks were told the same thing!!

Part of good parenting is to listen to your kids….and then CONFIRM! They are kids. They are immature. They can be easily lead and mislead.

Not sure what happened here. It’s something the parents will be tormented over until the day they die.

My guess is something like this likely happened with the young girls.

I agree that 28 & 32 year-olds hanging out at a party lasting until 7:00 AM with 14 and 15 year-olds is ridiculous. These adults are what I would call SICK PHUCKS!!! So ‘X’, how old are you dude???? Are you a SICK PHUCK ‘X’????

46. Richard Pope spews:

Goldy,

You really got invited to Seattle Times editorial board interviews with not just a Blethen or two, BUT TWO WHOLE GENERATIONS WORTH OF BLETHENS?

I have been to a few Seattle Times editorial interviews myself — having run for office a few times. Never once did any member of the Blethen family show up for any of these. Instead, they had some mid-level members of their editorial staff show up instead of the top brass.

I ENVY YOU, GOLDY! You should feel privileged if the Blethens honor you with their presence, and think twice about ending their mission in this world.

47. Tree Frog Farmer spews:

Hmmmm. I’ve been to parties that went on and on.They went past the time the light came in through the windows. . . .Some had a little mild drug usage. . .maybe some pot on the back porch. . .but many had nothing stronger than chocolate covered espresso beans. . .we called them ‘houlies’ or ‘cailies’ . . .trad Irish music sessions. That crowd really didn’t think the odd Guinness or Harp a drug, and were carried along mostly by the music. . .the musicians were as they say “on their strings” the whole evening. I shudder to think some malevolent or evil person would have crashed one of them. My heart goes out to the victims.

48. Mr. Cynical spews:

“DJ @ 37
Thanks for leaving a comment, but please use another screen name. There is already a dj here (that would be me) who has posted many hundreds of comments (and even a couple of guest posts on the front page). It would be mighty confusing to have two dj’s posting comments.
Commentby dj— 3/27/06@ 3:12 pm”

Yeah DJ (with CAPITAL LETTERS)!!!
dj has posted hundreds of comments….and one or two even made sense!! Frankly DJ (CAPITALS), if I were you I’d use a different name to save yourself the embarrassment.

dj—
Neener–Neener!!

49. Richard Pope spews:

The introductory blurb on the Seattle Times webpage says a lot:

“Officials released the names of of Kyle Huff’s victims: Jeremy Robert Martin, 26; Melissa Lynn Moore, 14; Justin Unin Grant Schwartz, 22; Suzanne Thorne, 15; Jason Travers, 32; and Christopher M. Williamson, 21.”

1. What in the HELL are 14 and 15 year olds doing staying up all night — i.e. to 7:00 a.m. in the morning — at someone else’s place, especially when their parents don’t know where they are. How could they have stayed up until 7:00 a.m. Sunday morning (or perhaps later) and then been in shape to go to a full day of school at 7:00 a.m. or so on Monday morning?

2. What is a 32 year old doing hanging out all night with someone who is 14 or 15 years old? Or why should 26 year olds, 22 year olds, or even 21 year olds be doing this? It would be bad enough if the perverts were only 18 or 19 year olds, but to be more than twice someone’s age on top of that?

3. I would assume the killer was high on drugs when he committed the murders then killed himself. Probably the same situation when he shot up that statue in Montana. A reasonable solution would be to crack down more on drugs.

50. Mark The Redneck spews:

X – Fercrissakes, pick up a book on gun laws in FUWA. There’s a good one by David Workman available at most gun shops. There are plenty of laws on storage and transportation, and leaving them unattended in a vehicle is a violation.

But at least you agree with me that there is a role for guns. Notice that the spree ended when another guy with a gun showed up. That’s how they always end.

51. X spews:

Mark, I only wish someone had been there legally licensed to carry and carrying. We all wish that.

But tell me: what reason is there to leave all that ammo and arsenal unattended parked on a city street? That alone needs to be illegal. It’s just senseless and irresponsible non-keeping of weapons. No reasonable person would leave so much weaponry in a place where a criminal could easily steal it. That is 100x more irresponsible than anything else alleged here today. (By the way, no I am not a pedophile, I am dating a 30 year old, thanks.)

Taking guns from the police would be asinine, and it was your suggestion, Ye Master Asshat Mark. If only one of the people truly from the crowd of friends had been packing, probably four fewer sleeping people would have been killed by Huff.

You tell me why Huff can keep so many guns in his unattended vehicle, and I’ll agree with you that we don’t need some new laws.

Maybe we could have gotten lucky and Huff might have been pulled over and stopped. Even if we hadn’t gotten lucky, if only one time in history, eight people are not killed by a Redneck Madman, then great. I’m going to work on changing the law.

52. Mark The Redneck spews:

Clearly, the only answer to the problem of violence in Seattle is to ban guns. And that should include the cops. The only “weapon” that a cop should be allowed to carry is a bullhorn so he can talk to perps. That way, the cops can understand criminals instead of blow their fucking heads off or convince criminals they should blow their own fucking heads off.

I think the HAs here should start a Seattle initiative to make it a “gun free zone”. Who wants to lead it? Coug? RR? DJ? Rujax… how bout you. How bout you set an example?

53. X spews:

Roger… we may have met. I didn’t mean to say the sane people here suck, just the ease of access for crazy people like momus. As for my theory of why Huff went off, what makes you jump to the conclusion that he formed his intent just on Friday night and had not attended any of the previously held parties?

DJ. Thanks. We have met. It’s off my back like crisco. I just eagerly await some sort of message-board software.

54. dj spews:

Hey X,

You know…you might be wrong on your diagnosis of momus. The loathing and self-hate may not be so much drug-related.

When he says shit like “when X starts coming the grammar schools looking for a date next weekend, it might be your kid he ends up with….”

It make me think he hates himself for another reason….

If and when he is caught, I’m sure he’ll (1) blame his victims and (2) blame his drug use.

55. dj spews:

Awww…isn’t that sweet. The HorsesAss community’s very own chromosomal anomaly, YO, has rasied its little head and squeaked once again.

Hey, everyone, a round of applause for little YO!

56. YO spews:

DJ YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS IRRELEVANT.GET A LIFE NO YOUNG GIRL SHOULD BE OUT AT THAT TIME OF THE MORNING PERIOD.YOUR FUCKING BRAIN DEAD.

57. Roger Rabbit spews:

30

“Why Huff decided to kill the people who threw a great costume party is something he took to the grave. My honest guess is that he was ticked off that he got invited to the house party, but nobody waved a magic wand and made him cool like he imagined he would be.”

I can’t agree. Huff didn’t acquire his arsenal (rifles, shotguns, hundreds of rounds of ammo, grenade) in 10 minutes. This guy was planning a war. The only private citizens who are armed like he was are those right-wing militia nuts. Don’t be surprised if it turns out that’s what he was.

58. Roger Rabbit spews:

“YO” is a contraction of “Yahoo” and is properly spelled “Y’o.” Like most wingnuts, “Y’o” can’t even spell his own fucking name.

59. Roger Rabbit spews:

It goes without saying that we realize, going in, that you’re a hateful, useless, and ugly person. That’s why we enjoy kicking you.

60. Roger Rabbit spews:

Momus Pompous Assus @77

“The mistake made by the victims is the same mistake made by Horse’s Ass: showing hospitality to hateful, useless, ugly people.” Commentby X— 3/27/06@ 4:11 pm

So you don’t misinterpret our hospitality here on HorsesAss, let me clarify what a trollfuck’s role is on HA: You’re here so we can kick the shit out of you.

61. Roger Rabbit spews:

And needless to say, Frank Blethen is as big a whiner as any Republican on the block. He’s especially good at the “poor little me” routine.

62. Roger Rabbit spews:

37

Hey DJ — I sicced the law on the Seattle Times for telephone harassment. Frank Blethen’s telemarketers use extortion to sell subscriptions. They keep calling you until you say “yes.” The state attorney general took care of that problem for me.

63. Ken In Seattle spews:

As an old fart, I seem to be afflicted with something the wingnuts for the most part lost long ago.
A memory.

I remember every dangerous and foolish thing I did from the age of 5 up to now including the teens and twenties. I sometimes think of the falls and flaming motorcycles, the white lightnin and rock climbs, and every time I had a gun waved in my face or pointed at me, and it is amazing to be alive.

I never expected it.

The urge to outlaw steak because babies can’t eat it is strong in this town and crosses through the right and the left.

The right wants to protect me from porn and unbiased news. The left wants to protect me from tobacco and violent video games.

Get over it. Young people do dangerous things sometimes and rarely realize that it was even dangerous until the filter of age changes the picture.

We are not gonna legislate the lone nut out of this world any more than we are gonna stop the organized nuts from the aryan nations or PETA.

“If all that Americans want is security, they can go to prison. They’ll have enough to eat, a bed and a roof over their heads.”
– Dwight Eisenhower

64. dj spews:

momus @ 73

“Come on, you guy are LIBERALS. Aren’t you supposed to be waxing poetic on how confused, angry and distrurbed the killer had to have been?”

You’ve been listening to too much talk radio, ya fucking wingtard.

“I mean it could not have been his fault, there had to be a mental disorder that we need to explore and feel bad about.”

I recognize that you are attempting sarcasm by invoking an exaggerated stereotype of a liberal. Yet, this type of excuse is, more or less, what you are doing. It was the fault of the parents, the drug users, the flashing lights, the age of the attendees, the culture of dance, the costumes… everything but the fact that a sick motherfucker appears to have pre-planned a massacre.

So momus … full disclosure, please. What are you up to with this bullshit, momus?

65. momus spews:

Ah dj…

Don’t you worry.

I am just giving you the liberal angle that will be put forth in a week or so after the shock wears off and history is re-written. Eventually, the victims will all be forgotten, but you’ll remember Kyle huff.

The house will become a local tourist attraction.

You feign outrage right now, but that will turn around.

Full disclosure DJ, when X starts coming the grammar schools looking for a date next weekend, it might be your kid he ends up with….

66. X spews:

MOMUS> Come on, you guy are LIBERALS. Aren’t you supposed to be waxing poetic on how confused, angry and distrurbed the killer had to have been?

Yes, the killer does bear a striking resemblance to you.

The mistake made by the victims is the same mistake made by Horse’s Ass: showing hospitality to hateful, useless, ugly people.

Hospitality is overrated in a world full of Kyle Huffs and Momuses.

67. dj spews:

Momus @ 72

Your pop quiz is irrelevant. You don’t know the circumstances of the girl, her life, her parents, or her friends. You don’t really know why she was there or what she was doing. Yet, you feign outrage over her being at the party.

I think the rest of us find more outrage about the murders. Are you a friend of the Huff family or something? Perhaps trying to protect the brother? If true, that would provide context to your comments. Otherwise, you come off as fucking loony tunes obsessing on everything else (esp. trying to blame the victims) except the killer.

68. momus spews:

BTW, X…

The reports of grenades being found have been proven to be false.

69. dj spews:

Momus @ 60

“But we are also talking about a post rave after hours, house party, with friggin children in attandance.”

Ohhh…really…is that the big outrage here?

And here I thought the real tradegy was that a fucking madman was shooting and killing innocent people.

Man, momus, you are one fucked up motherfucker.

70. momus spews:

So, DJ,

Pop quiz

Would your 15 year old daughter be at a post rave party at 5AM?

71. momus spews:

DJ,

I know it sound harsh, but as we now find two of these victims were 14 and 15 year old girls, someone has to ask the question.

If their parents had been, well, parenting, both of these girls would be alive right now.

Come on, you guy are LIBERALS. Aren’t you supposed to be waxing poetic on how confused, angry and distrurbed the killer had to have been?

I mean it could not have been his fault, there had to be a mental disorder that we need to explore and feel bad about.

72. momus spews:

why don’t you address the comments on 62?

73. momus spews:

sorry, 65

74. X spews:

You’re willing to indict the victims, but not the brother who condoned the gun arsenal?

You are an asshat.

75. X spews:

Momus> Don’t indict the kids brother in this, he’s done nothing

That is a lie. Kane Huff has not been arrested or charged with a crime.

Kane Huff lived in the same apartment where one or both of them illegally possessed a grenade.

76. momus spews:

X @ 62…

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002891731_victims27m.html

Christopher Williamson was trying to extricate himself from a music scene that gave him an outlet for his creative urges but also pulled him into a world of drugs. Friday night, the budding disc jockey went again, though, to a techno-music concert.

“”He had promised to stay away from that whole thing because of the drugs,” his mother said. “He just kind of wanted to turn his life around.””

Am I lying?

Is Chris williamsons Mom lying?

or are you playing with your imaginary friends again?

Want me to go on?

77. momus spews:

Don’t indict the kids brother in this, he’s done nothing

78. X spews:

Kyle Huff brought hundreds of round of ammo. He brought bandolier straps of 12-gauge shells. He brought a pump-action semi-auto shotgun, a semi-auto Bushmaster rifle, and a semi-auto handgun. He was probably carrying the handgun illegally, but the other weapons were legal for him to have in his truck.

What Kyle Huff brought to the party:
- A shotgun
- Shotgun shells
- Bandolier straps for shotgun shells
- Rifle
- Hundreds of rounds for rifle
- Handgun

None of the victims made him into a killer. Kyle Huff was a demon, an evil killing person, and he is the bad guy here.

79. X spews:

Momus> Several of the guests have admitted serious problems with drugs

That is a lie.

80. X spews:

In point of fact, the only person we can be certain is burining in Hell right now is Kyle Huff.

81. X spews:

The real loser here is Kyle Huff, and possibly his brother who helped him amass so many guns.

82. momus spews:

hey DJ,

I may be doing that, I’ll admit that.

But we are also talking about a post rave after hours, house party, with friggin children in attandance.

Several of the guests have admitted serious problems with drugs, In this case, I’d say it an accuarte guess. and as I’ve said before, i’ll wait to hear the toxicology reports

83. Mr. Cynical spews:

I didn’t say it did happen in this case…
but as long as you bring it up, what were those little girls doing there at 5:00AM with grown, adult men???

Don’t you agree that Grown men who party with little girls are stupid and sick ‘X’????

84. momus spews:

here’s a newsflash for you x…

man 40, woman 30 = good for him
man 30, woman 40, = great for her

man 19, girl 15 = loser combing the high schools because he cannot get anyone his age, or the year before that, or before that, or before that interested in him.

85. dj spews:

momus @ 43

“How many parties have tyou been to where people are still going at 5 AM and there have been no hard drugs driving why people are still up?”

Hmmm…I’ve never used any illegal drug, yet I have been to plenty of parties until 5 AM.

Momus, I think you are taking your own drug-ladden experiences and projecting it on to this party. Just because you can imagine what might have happened, doesn’t mean it did.

(Once again, you show that wingnuts do have that little problem with reality….)

86. X spews:

Momus,

I am not one to speak ill of the dead.

Getting back to an earlier question, what’s your name? I do want to pay my respects to you when you pass.

87. X spews:

You realize the guy who had a 15-year old girlfriend was himself only 19?

88. dj spews:

DJ @ 37

Thanks for leaving a comment, but please use another screen name. There is already a dj here (that would be me) who has posted many hundreds of comments (and even a couple of guest posts on the front page). It would be mighty confusing to have two dj’s posting comments.

Thanks,
dj

89. momus spews:

Correction, that’s age of consent = 18

A person 16 or 17 may consent to sexual activity with a person not more
than 59 months (4 years 11 months) older. For example it is illegal for a
21 year old to have sex with a 16 year old; it is illegal for a 22 year old
to have sex with a 17 year old. Also it is illegal for any school employee
to have consensual sexual contact with a student between age 16 and high
school graduation, so age 16 does not apply to school employees.

And BTW, are ya kidding me? What the hell is a 19 year old doing with a 15 year old?

Seriously, what kind of losers do you hand around with? 19 years old is the age of a college freshman, 15 is a freshman in HIGH SCHOOL, you know, that’s the first year after elementary school?

I mean this, THAT is PATHETIC

90. JDB spews:

Since there is no open thread today, this is for Wrongboy and Chickenhawk when they next drop by:

The former co-owner of a telemarketing firm pleaded not guilty Monday to participating in a Republican scheme to jam New Hampshire Democrats’ get-out-the-vote phone lines on Election Day 2002.

Shaun Hansen, 34, of Spokane, Wash., was indicted by a federal grand jury on March 8, but the charges were not made public until his arraignment Monday.

Hansen is charged with conspiring to commit and aiding the commission of telephone harassment. Prosecutors say he was paid $2,500 to have employees at Idaho-based Mylo Enterprises place hundreds of hang-up calls to phone lines installed to help voters get rides to the polls on Nov. 5, 2002. Among the contests decided that day was the close U.S. Senate race in which Republican Rep. John Sununu beat outgoing Democratic Gov. Jeanne Shaheen.

Three others have been convicted for their roles in the scheme.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420AP_GOP_Phone_Jamming.html

91. X spews:

Momus, suffice it to say that, yes, I knew the people who were there and a couple of the victims. I have been to their parties and, no, they are not drugfests. Fortunately, they have never been redneck gun-owner fests before, either.

92. momus spews:

X…

If that’s the case, do you and your friends normally hand out with 14 and 15 year olds?

Are you aware that the age of consent in this state is actually 16, not 14?

93. X spews:

Momus,
A) No.
B) You’re a shitty mom.
C) As long as there are DJs, they will have girls hanging out with them.

Do you normally hang out with gun-toting rednecks, or are you just a generically hateful bitch?

94. momus spews:

JDB,

Excellent point.

X…

If you really think that the rave scene is a drug free environment, your kidding yourself. End of subject.

Back to my other point, why are you presenting yourself like you were in this house or had some kind of intimate background knowledge to the people?

I’ll be inetetrested to see the toxicology reports.

95. X spews:

drool> An assault rifle is capable of full auto fire. None of his weapons were.

Perhaps by your definition of ‘assault rifle’, his semi-auto with 30-round clips was not one.

I think that’s mincing words.

Answer this: What wildlife animal do hunters target that requires possession of 30-round magazines for semi-auto rifles?

96. X spews:

MOMUS> How many parties have tyou been to where people are still going at 5 AM and there have been no hard drugs driving why people are still up?

In this particular case, many of the victims were asleep at the time of the violence, which was 7:04am.

As for how many such parties I have been to, stayed up until 5am, and not used any hard drugs whatsoever: dozens.

It’s funny how sure you are what happened when you don’t know any of the people involved. It’s just that you hate yourself and what you have done, isn’t it?

That’s probably the same kind of thinking Huff employed.

Keep in mind, he trucked his arsenal to the party before he ever had a chance to ‘get corrupted’ by the nice dancing kids who weren’t harming a soul. He brought the guns. If only he had brought some drugs, instead.

97. drool spews:

x,

Check your facts. One Bushmaster semi auto rifle with 30 rd mags, one Winchester defender pump, and one Ruger .40 cal semi auto handgun from what the officer said on the press conference. Go see the video on KING 5′s web site. The officer even said he would not describe the Bushmaster as an assult rifle.

An assault rifle is capable of full auto fire. None of his weapons were.

98. JDB spews:

momus:

“As to the girl parents. I am certain, that if they are reading this, they are saying the same thing. what was a 15 year old girl doing in a house with 25 – 32 year olds all night long.”

Well, that’s the answer to your question, isn’t it. The girls parents should never had let her out like that.

It had nothing to do with drugs or the Rave scene. It had everything to do with bad parenting.

99. momus spews:

How am I talking ill of them?

Go read the profiles for these people. Many have admittedly had long histories of drug use/abuse.

This whole situation is just sad.

How many parties have tyou been to where people are still going at 5 AM and there have been no hard drugs driving why people are still up?

100. X spews:

Drool — He had two semi-auto rifles with high-cap (30+) banana clips. Riddle me that, gun-lover.

101. X spews:

MOMUS> I think what is truly sad is when something like this happens, suddenly these freaky groupies appear out of nowhere, talking like they were close friends with the victims and all the victims were saints.

No, you’re sad. These guys are strangers to you, and here you are with all your hate for them. These are dead victims you’re speaking ill of.

What’s your whole name? When you die, I want to visit your grave.

102. X spews:

MOMUS,

You’re just a liar. Nobody at that house would have come anywhere near as dirty a street drug as Crystal Meth.

As for the 15-year-old girl, she does have parents who could be reading this. Therefore, I have nothing to say on that matter.

103. DJ spews:

The Seattle Times editorial staff is pathetic. They are trying to use this tragedy as a way to revive a policy they lost badly on several years ago. I know it won’t change things, but I have canceled my subsciption (should have happened when they endorsed Bush, then Sidran, etc). More than that, every sensible person should tell them to shove it and cancel their’s too. 7 people dead at a house, murdered by a suicidle madman, and the Times wants to revisit the Teen Dance Ordinance? What a bunch of pathetic assholes!

104. drool spews:

Sorry Momus. My Bad.

X, that was meant for you.

105. drool spews:

We now have a 14 year old girl confirmed as a fatality too. Terrible.

106. momus spews:

X…

Get a life.

I think what is truly sad is when something like this happens, suddenly these freaky groupies appear out of nowhere, talking like they were close friends with the victims and all the victims were saints.

As to the girl parents. I am certain, that if they are reading this, they are saying the same thing. what was a 15 year old girl doing in a house with 25 – 32 year olds all night long.

There is no excuse for a child to have been in that environment

107. rhp6033 spews:

By the way, it appears that the shooter in this case did not go home to get the weapons and then return to the party. He had them in his truck all along. He was prepared to kill somebody before he even went to the rave. So I doubt the motive was produced by any drugs he had at the party, or any events which occured at the party. For some unkown reason, he was a ticking bomb that was about to explode. Pretty sad.

108. momus spews:

Drool,,

What the hell are you talking about?

I’ve mentioned nothing about assault rifles

109. drool spews:

Momus,

What assault rifles?

He had a handgun and a shotgun. He had a semi auto rifle in the truck.

110. X spews:

That isn’t what was happening, you shameless liar. I know you will go to hell for this, and I am so glad.

111. Mr. Cynical spews:

X-
Grown men who party with little girls are stupid….and sick!!

112. X spews:

Jack,

So you are going to shoot down F-16′s with your Winchester Defender? That’s stupid. But people who love guns are stupid.

113. dj spews:

Cynical @ 105

“I don’t care how old the victims girlfriends were….there is a more fundamental question about adults and little kids at all night party’s.”

That’s an interesting take on it. I thought the fundamental issue here was about a crazy motherfucker shooting up a house full of people.

But, you know, I could be missing the big picture here or something.

114. Jack Burton spews:

X @ 139

“There is no reason we need there to always be guns.”

There is,it’s called Tyranny. Hence the Bill of Rights of which the 2nd Amendment is only a portion.

Once we get rid of the guns we’ll also have gotten rid the freedoms we enjoy (and many time take from granted) in the country.

115. Jack Burton spews:

(and many TIMES taken FOR granted)

Sorry for the fumble fingers

116. X spews:

No, the problem lies with the word “gunman.”

There is no reason to manufacture these guns (e.g., Winchester Defender) other than to create “gunmen.”

The world needs men, does not need gunmen, and so we can do with out the gun.

There will always be crazy people. There is no reason we need there to always be guns.

117. Mr. Cynical spews:

X-
One of the reasons we need guns is because of kooks like you who can rationalize 14 and 15 year-old children drinking and drugging and partying with 32 year-old immature KLOWNS.
My guess is there are more than a few parents out there who might come unhinged by 32 year-olds LURING young kids to party’s.
You said you knew these ravers…………
Why would they party with these young kids X??????
It makes my skin crawl.
Do they enjoy being considered “cool” and idolized by these little girls???

Your attitude toward responsibility of adults toward little kids is reason enough for the 2nd Amendment. The framers of our Constitution probably never dreamed morality & responsibility could sink so low that it rationalizes that 2nd Amendment….or, maybe they did think of you and your pals.
Little kids….disgusting.

118. Jack Burton spews:

Dispite the side issues argued here, the fault lies in hands of the gunman.

Those weapons didn’t load and shoot themselves.

This just falls back into the typical “guns are bad” routine.

Guns are not good or bad they are THINGS. It’s the PEOPLE who use and misuse them that are good or bad.

119. X spews:

Just watch what happens to Richard Pope, the Seattle Times, and any other public asshat. Mark my words.

120. momus spews:

X…

I’m not villifying victims. I’m placing equal blame.

BTW, you and the 16 other kids involved in this boycott will not affect the Seattle times in anyway.

And lets face it, I’m sure your already participating in some hairbrained scheme to boycott Starbucks anyhow, vandalize SUV’s etc…..

In fact…..SBUX stock is currently gaining

121. DJ spews:

Some facts: From what the Polie have to say, there were no drugs or alcohol at the CHAC party. there were 19 security working, patting people down checking for weapons and drugs. The event was over at 4am.

According to an article in the Seattle Times, the 14 year old victim was with a group of girls who ended up at the house because they didn’t have another place to wait for the bus after friends they went to the CHAC with stranded them. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002893498_webmoore27.html

“Separated from the friends who ferried her to the rave at Capitol Hill Arts Center, she stuck with two other teenage girls from Bellevue, he said. At the end of the party, they were stranded.
They were invited to the blue house on East Republican Street.
“Whoever invited her probably felt sorry that they had to wait until six or seven (a.m.) for a bus to come by,” Kyle Moore said.”

From all reports the guys running the ‘rave’ were really good guys. They shut down the event, invited people who worked over to their house to hang out which is common to do after work, saw some teenagers stranded at the bus stop and offered them a warm place to wait for their bus home. An innocent good deed.

I have also read that one father whose daughter snuck out was driving around looking for her. Hardly a bad parent as you are accusing him of being.

People here are jumping to quick conclusions without knowing the facts. You are destroying the reputation of some reportedly great people who are dead by spewing ill informed opinions.

Get the facts, then form judgements.

122. X spews:

Wow, they have survived the first 10 minutes of our puny boycot.

Do you suck cock?

123. momus spews:

Sorry sailor,

why don’t you go to drinking liberally tonight and ask Goldy that same question.

I’m sure it’s been years since he’s been laid.

124. RUFUS spews:

Yeah, the fact that 15 year olds are in the same room as 20 or 30 year olds at a party is “prima fascia” evidence of something twisted. I don’t care what anybody says, it is wrong. You are right Mr. C.

125. dude spews:

Emotional boycott’s like this never work ‘X’.
Long ago I boycotted the Seattle Times by cancelling my subscription. I suggest you do the same. And don’t look at their website either. Advertisers pay based on traffic.

126. X spews:

Honestly, momus, I can’t disagree with your 12:37pm post. But what is your deal with villifying the victims?

Kyle Huff was an outsider who hated these people for no good reason, stock-piled guns, and killed them.

His first gun arrest was before he moved to the state. It’s not like the party drove him crazy. He was a psychopath who legally possessed guns.

127. X spews:

The call for a boycot is already going out. No more frequenting establishments that give space to the Seattle Times, effective 5pm today. That includes Tully’s and Starbucks. Pass it on.

128. momus spews:

X….

A parent who gives a 14 (not 15) year old a 3 AM curfew need their head examined.

Anyone over the age of 21 who allows 14 and 15 year old girls into their home, without the supervision of a guardian is setting themselves up for trouble.

This same person allowing a 14 or 15 year old, boy or girl, into a home after say, 10 PM is setting themselves up for trouble.

That be beind said, that same person alowing 14 and 15 year old girls into a home, where drug use is occurring and alcohol is being served is a fucking moron.

129. X spews:

What we need is an All Ages Gun Ordinance.

130. X spews:

Look, Cynical, I bet we agree on something: Why are there 15 year-olds with 3am curfews who stay out until 7:00am?

131. Heath spews:

Dude,

No, I have never gone to a party with a 14 year-old. Have I ever seen a 14 year-old tag along with other people?

Duh.

132. X spews:

Thor> And while it might be difficult to attain perfection in keeping these types of guns and this volume of ammo away from people like Huff, sensible state laws and policies that reduce access to these types of weapons would be a good start. It appears a one-strike with a gun law might have kept guns away from this guy – one violent use of a gun that harms life or property, no more guns. This would need to be combined with closing loop holes that would have made guns available to Huff at a gun show.

Thor> We obvioulsy need more sensible gun laws and gun policies. And until the state’s political leadership collectively develops the guts and the willpower to enact more senisible gun laws, we need to shame the people who sell these types of weapons and this volume of ammunition.

This was very well-written and thought out. Thank you.

133. Mr. Cynical spews:

X–
I was asking about YOU dude.
How old are YOU?
Have you gone to these party’s with little kids???
What are 28 and 32 year-olds doing at a party with 14 and 15 year-olds???
I hear the roar of the ravers that they are “responsible” people….however, the ACTIONS do not appear to bear that out.
Doesn’t anyone check ID’s???
“Private party’s” with unrelated adults & kids???
YIKES!
I don’t care how old the victims girlfriends were….there is a more fundamental question about adults and little kids at all night party’s.
Are you one of those sicko’s dude???
Rationalize it all you want….it’s not right.

134. momus spews:

Dude,

Well said……

135. drool spews:

Ever see what snipers use? Hint: They are based on sporting rifles.

136. dude spews:

So ‘X’ what is your deal here.
I was asking about YOU dude.
How old are YOU?
Have you gone to these party’s with little kids???
What are 28 and 32 year-olds doing at a party with 14 and 15 year-olds???
I hear the roar of the ravers that they are “responsible” people….however, the ACTIONS do not appear to bear that out.
Doesn’t anyone check ID’s???
“Private party’s” with unrelated adults & kids???
YIKES!
I don’t care how old the victims girlfriends were….there is a more fundamental question about adults and little kids at all night party’s.
Certainly the shooter is primarily responsible for these deaths. I’m not arguing that. But there are a number of secondary issues here regarding parenting AND 30-something adults who party with little kids. Lots of parents and KLOWNS want to be thought of as “cool” by little kids. WTF!!! How immature is that. How many parents here would allow their little kid to go to a party like this??? How many people here party with little kids at 5:00AM and don’t see anything wrong with that???
Rationalize it all you want….it’s not right. ‘X’, grow up pal!

137. LiberalRedneck spews:

-Actually the problem is witht he anti gun crowd that likes to make up their own definitons for things like “sniper rifle”, “saturday night special” and “assault weapon”.-

Gotta love how idiots like drool think it’s the anti-gun crowd

Fact is – as polling proves – it only takes a little common sense to figure out what the purpose of a sniper rifle, saturday night special and assault rifle is. (hints for drool: they ain’t for huntin’, and they ain’t gonna save your paranoid right wing utopia from Big Brother)

138. thor spews:

I agree with X.

And while it might be difficult to attain perfection in keeping these types of guns and this volume of ammo away from people like Huff, sensible state laws and policies that reduce access to these types of weapons would be a good start. It appears a one-strike with a gun law might have kept guns away from this guy – one violent use of a gun that harms life or property, no more guns. This would need to be combined with closing loop holes that would have made guns available to Huff at a gun show.

We obvioulsy need more sensible gun laws and gun policies. And until the state’s political leadership collectively develops the guts and the willpower to enact more senisible gun laws, we need to shame the people who sell these types of weapons and this volume of ammunition.

139. X spews:

I’VE resorted to insults? Holy shit, you people are cracked in the head. Yes, now I have resorted to insults. But for you to imply I am the first is eye-opening.

140. X spews:

The problem with gun-strokers is that they devolve the conversation into technicalities: this number of whatever, pistol grip, bayonette attachment, over/under strap, caliber, etc.

What we really need is a law that takes guns away from people like Huff. Period.

I realize that this is a safer state with so many people having CPLs. People like Huff aren’t the people making it safer.

So, you tell me: how could we have taken Huff’s guns away before the shooting?

141. drool spews:

Actually the problem is witht he anti gun crowd that likes to make up their own definitons for things like “sniper rifle”, “saturday night special” and “assault weapon”. They go for the most inflammatory thing they can come up with to push their point as if they are established fact. I am just correcting what frequently gets regurgitated.

I don’t know whether Huff was giving off signs of tweeking out so we don’t know. We may find out. Much like somebody getting intoxicated and behind the wheel possibly.

They took two of his guns away once in Montana. Guess which two they were? I wouldn’t have given them back after what he did.

142. drool spews:

Having a CPL is irrelevant as is passing other laws relating to carrying weapons. He was intending to break the law anyway. CPL only applies to pistols.

It’s normal to have a dozen guns with ammo in a car when one goes shooting.

So X, you’ve resorted to insults now eh? If this is your idea of a utopian world without firearms…….

143. X spews:

Yes, dumb-ass rednecks, I know the gun laws.

Did Huff have a CPL? This is a shall-issue state, after all.

He had already committed vandalism with these guns 5 years ago. Why was he allowed to own guns again?

144. X spews:

The purpose of making it illegal to carry that many guns would be to make it difficult for Huff to do that in front of other people, like his supposedly law-abiding brother.

But you nut-cases “gun experts” are right. The appropriate thing to do is to ban the ownership of shotguns with barrels less than 27 inches or stock-to-sights less than 48 inches.

Being a gun expert is the same as being a jack-off artist, guys.

145. righton spews:

Old friend, and i hear he stole it from Chris Rock, said roughly, “nothing good ever happens after midnight”

Maybe the puritans were more right than we all (myself included) admit. Idle hands are the devils tools or whatever…

gee, minors, plus drugs, plus wee hours, plus stranger..
even w/out the killing these folks should be home, resting for the next day.

146. drool spews:

X, another correction. A pump shotgun is not a semi auto.

Since when does the number of guns he had constitute an “arsenal”?

You need to read up before spouting off.

147. drool spews:

X,

Not mincing words. Just using correct definitions. Who ever said one has to hunt with a firearm? I have them and don’t hunt. I do like to go out shooting casually and paper punching.

As to why anyone would want a 30 round magazine? Why would anyone want a fighter plane, steam locomotive, or 150 MPH car? People have hobbies. I’m sure you have some that I have no interest in. One of my magazines for my Kalashnikov is 75 rounds. It has killed exaclty one less person that Ted Kennedy’s car.

148. Gray Coyote spews:

You tell me why Huff can keep so many guns in his unattended vehicle, and I’ll agree with you that we don’t need some new laws.

Maybe we could have gotten lucky and Huff might have been pulled over and stopped. Even if we hadn’t gotten lucky, if only one time in history, eight people are not killed by a Redneck Madman, then great. I’m going to work on changing the law.

A few pointers on Washington laws on firearms transport.

RCW 9.41.050, quoted in part:

(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee’s person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

—–

In regards to making Mark Huff’s storage of firearms in a car in the sheer amount that he had illegal…what would it have mattered? By the time anyone noticed that he had guns, he was already almost into the house.

Wow, we’ll throw in another charge of “having an arsenal of weapons in the car”. Oh wait, he was going to kill a bunch of people and then kill himself. Gee, here is how Mark Huff would have seen it:

“Damn, I was going to kill myself or end up facing the gas chamber anyway, but the State of Washington just passed a law making me have loaded firearms in the car while unattended a gross misdemeanor, with a one year jail sentence….darn, I better not do it, one year in jail is too risky, despite the fact that I want to kill myself after killing a bunch of people in a blaze of glory.”

Unless you want Seattle PD using to do random car searches (which probably still wouldn’t have caught Mark Huff in the town), and totally eviscerate the 4th amendment even more than the Bushistas and the Pugs have already done, such a law is wholly ineffective.

149. Gray Coyote spews:

Brendan McKown, carrying his own pistol, was prepared to stop the “reign of terror” at the Tacoma Mall on Sunday before he was shot and critically wounded, friends and family said Tuesday.

This is because Brendan McKown made a significant tactical error: He warned the guy to drop his weapon. The proper tactic was to immediately put the Tacoma Mall Shooter down. Tacoma Police, and other law enforcement agencies would not have bothered with a warning, and if I were in McKown’s position, I would not have warned the guy, either.

However, it might be added that even though McKown was shot, the Tacoma Mall shooter went into a local shop and took hostages. Though hostage taking is a terrifying ordeal, the Tacoma Mall shooter did stop firing into the mall’s crowd, probably when he realized that there was possibly more armed citizens inside of the mall.

Tacoma Mall, despite the heroism of Brendan McKown, still put up signs saying “No weapons” after the shooting incident. Goes to show you that Tacoma Mall would have rather have more people shot and possibly killed by psychotics like the Tacoma Mall shooter than face the possibility of one legally armed citizen putting a stop. “Ban them all, let the cops sort it out after the bodies pile high”.

Pathetic. Do these malls really think that a sign is going to prevent nutcases from going in there with guns shooting up the place? When people are intent on murder and mayhem, they won’t give two shits about a sign or breaking a gun control law.

150. JDB spews:

And you gun nuts, remember what we need is someone with a gun to prevent this from happening. Oh, wait, ……,

Brendan McKown, carrying his own pistol, was prepared to stop the “reign of terror” at the Tacoma Mall on Sunday before he was shot and critically wounded, friends and family said Tuesday.

Oops, guess that doesn’t work.

151. Gray Coyote spews:

A person 16 or 17 may consent to sexual activity with a person not more than 59 months (4 years 11 months) older. For example it is illegal for a 21 year old to have sex with a 16 year old; it is illegal for a 22 year old to have sex with a 17 year old.

Incorrect. It is illegal for said 21 and 22 year old to have sex and sexual contact with said 16 and 17 year old if they are in what is defined as a “significant relationship” with each other, and said “perpetrator” uses it to advantage.

Here is the language of the statute:

RCW 9A.44.096
Sexual misconduct with a minor in the second degree.

1) A person is guilty of sexual misconduct with a minor in the second degree when: (a) The person has, or knowingly causes another person under the age of eighteen to have, sexual contact with another person who is at least sixteen years old but less than eighteen years old and not married to the perpetrator, if the perpetrator is at least sixty months older than the victim, is in a significant relationship to the victim, and abuses a supervisory position within that relationship in order to engage in or cause another person under the age of eighteen to engage in sexual contact with the victim;

—-

Notice the “and” in there. That means that all three conditions must take effect before the age is bumped up to 18.

Significant relationship and abuse of a supervisory position is defined in RCW 9A.44.010 as:

(8) “Significant relationship” means a situation in which the perpetrator is:

(a) A person who undertakes the responsibility, professionally or voluntarily, to provide education, health, welfare, or organized recreational activities principally for minors;

(b) A person who in the course of his or her employment supervises minors; or

(c) A person who provides welfare, health or residential assistance, personal care, or organized recreational activities to frail elders or vulnerable adults, including a provider, employee, temporary employee, volunteer, or independent contractor who supplies services to long-term care facilities licensed or required to be licensed under chapter 18.20, 18.51, 72.36, or 70.128 RCW, and home health, hospice, or home care agencies licensed or required to be licensed under chapter 70.127 RCW, but not including a consensual sexual partner.

(9) “Abuse of a supervisory position” means:

(a) To use a direct or indirect threat or promise to exercise authority to the detriment or benefit of a minor; or

(b) To exploit a significant relationship in order to obtain the consent of a minor.

—-

The general age of consent for sexual activity is 16 years of age Washington State, NOT 18. It only gets bumped up to age 18 under certain VERY NARROW circumstances. A 16 year old could have sex with a 50 year old in this state and it would be black letter legal, AS LONG as they are not in a statutorily defined significant relationship.

Last time someone tried to raise the age to 18 under all circumstances, it failed. That person was none other than disgraced ex-mayor of Spokane Jim West.

Also it is illegal for any school employee to have consensual sexual contact with a student between age 16 and high school graduation, so age 16 does not apply to school employees.

With the exception of the fact that it’s between 16 and 18 (meaning you can boink your teacher at 18 all you want), this law is essentially correct as you interpret it.

152. X spews:

Jason’s girlfriend is in her late twenties. Jeremy’s is around 25. I don’t know the others well enough to comment.

I.e., there was no issue regarding a 32 year old and a 15 year old, as asshats here have suggested.

153. Goldy spews:

Richard @95,

Are you kidding? I have never been invited to an editorial board interview at the Times, and I don’t expect I ever will. There are other editorial boards you know.

154. Drivel spews:

And writeoff probably pretends it is Sunday each and everyday. Atleast to harass his kids. He lives his life like it is perpetual Saturday night. Righton….DiscoDuck of Des Moines.