Grover and Me

The Evergreen Freedom Foundation just sent me my invite via email:

Please join us
for a debate with special guest
Political blogger and former KIRO radio talk show host

Monday, June 16, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Outback Steakhouse
701 Westlake Ave N
Seattle, WA 98109

Please RSVP to Denise Brandt, 360.956.3482

That’s right, I get to debate neo-con, arch-villain Grover Norquist, courtesy of my good friends at the EFF. The man behind the Bush tax cuts debating a lowly, local blogger like me, at an Outback Steakhouse…? My how the mighty have fallen.

I’m expecting to have a lot of fun… especially if a few of my own supporters show up to cheer me on. So RSVP today and join me at the Outback Steakhouse for an evening of red meat, literal and otherwise.


  1. 1

    YLB spews:

    OT: Dino Lossi is on KUOW right now. I’m just shaking with anger.

    This guy is a total fucking mean-spirited smear job.

    This show will be archived and it will be too fun to pick apart this fraud.

  2. 2


    I don’t think Norquist is a neocon. Provoking a horribly expensive war on entirely false premises is a government action, and Grover hates government.

  3. 3

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Ummmm, Gregoire has added over 8000 State Employees, spent our huge surplus and lead us to a anticipated $2.4 BILLION deficit.
    She has also responsible for the Ferry debacle and little actual on-the-ground progress in the whole transportation fiasco.

    Perhaps you are not shaking with anger….rather shaking with the truth that Gregoire has failed us.

  4. 4

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Sounds like a great opportunity for you to spew your fringe lunatic leftist dogma at a small government advocate.

    I have always believed in giving guys like you the mike and plenty of opportunity to spew your guts out.

    I’ll try to be there.
    Be prepared to have your ass handed to you.

    PS–PLEASE lay off the F-word! Your audience is primarily God-fearing Christian & Jewish Conservatives who take offense at such low-level vitrolic dialogue……not fellow New Age Secular Progressives who have no moral compass.

  5. 5

    Steve spews:

    @3 Ummmm, I bet that you’re absolutely outraged at how many Republicans have been busted for pedophilia over the past few years. Please tell us just how outraged you really are about this very large Republican pedophilia problem.

    Indeed, I reckon that your outrage dial is cranked all the way up to eleven for this one.

  6. 6

    Steve spews:

    @4 Republican pervs have a moral compass? Who knew? And to think that I thought that their lack of a moral compass was their core problem.

  7. 8

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4 Hey MR. CYNICAL … I hope you bought Dynamic Materials last week like I told you to. Naturally, I assume you’re reading this blog every day and paying attention to the time-sensitive material posted here. I added 300 shares to my existing position 2 weeks ago and already have a $1,200 profit. If, for whatever reason, you missed the boat well that’s just tough berries for you!

  8. 9

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    Well, I don’t see anybody going to the debate. Why not show up and support Goldy?

  9. 11

    YLB spews:

    To a wingnut Goldy has committed the ultimate blasphemy, way bigger than professing atheism or dropping the odd F-Bomb.

    Goldy rejects the mostly deeply held wingnut value:

    Greed is good.

    To reject this is tantamount to committing the unforgivable sin.

    Can any right wing Christian tell me what the unforgivable sin is in their religion?

  10. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @11 Greed is a sin and I’ll probably go to Hell for it, because I’m plenty greedy. I made $1,750 in the stock market today and didn’t even have to get off the crapper let alone do any honest work. It’s enough to make a commie weep! And to think these fools believe I’m a socialist or something …

    (rabbit drool splashes on printouts of capital gains scattered on desk and floor around computer workstation)

  11. 16

    ArtFart spews:

    I still expect Rossi to propose digging up Capt. Peabody’s rotting corpse and trying to turn the ferry system back over to him. After all, didn’t he exhume Lou Guzzo to run his “foundation”?

  12. 19



    You blew it…

    You said the folks at EFF are your “good friends,” which means many of the HA Happy Hooligans will now feel obligated to heap coals upon your forehead as they did to me a couple days ago when I linked the EFF Memorial Day tribute as being from “my pals at EFF,” or some such.

    ByeByeGOP especially will be outraged; he’ll drop more “F” bombs on you than ever fell over Dresden, Tokyo or London during the Blitz, but that’s the limit of his analysis and vocabulary.

    And I can imagine the snarky comments soon to spew from Rodent, but since all his comments are snarky, you seen one, you seen ‘em all.

    The Ol’ Piper will certainly try to make the debate – should be entertaining. Maybe you and Grover can split a Bloomin’ Onion?

    The Piper

  13. 21



    Capt. Peabody today would do a better job at WSF than what we’ve seen over the past few years, dead though he is.

    Can you say Steel Electric class?

    The Piper

  14. 25

    My Left Foot spews:

    Cyniclown at 4

    My compass is pointing at….damn, look at this, it is pointing at FUCK YOU!!

    Imagine that.

    By the way I am a Jewish Liberal Democrat. So I don’t fit your narrow minded profile for the attendees at the this bashing that your side will be taking.

    Talk to us in November when you are truly the opposition and MINORITY party.

    Go BLUE!!

  15. 26


    Grover Norquist is an idiot WingNut spewer of Falangist talking points. Watch out for the moderator though. He/she might be the actual person you are debating.

  16. 27


    He’s married to an Arab terrorist. That’s why he takes trains. They won’t let him fly.

    That would be my first question: Are you still married to the terrorist?

  17. 30

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    If the GOP continues to deprive itself of votes, it will shrink to the size where we can drown it in a bathtub…or steak sauce as the case may be.

  18. 31

    I-Burn spews:

    @30 If I may, y’all are making the same assumption that Republicans made a few years ago. That being, that because you win the election, that automatically translates into permanent dominance. Do remember that not long ago, the death of the Democratic Party was being just as loudly proclaimed, as you all do with the Republicans, now.

    Personally, I’m hoping that a lot of Republicans are so disgusted that they’ll jump to the Libertarians. No matter though, I’m quite certain that the Dems are not going to being growing as much as you all seem to think. Not long term, anyway…

  19. 33

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    Personally, I’m hoping that a lot of Republicans are so disgusted that they’ll jump to the Libertarians.

    Sounds great to me! Just another way to keep the Republicans out of any significant power for the next generation! I promise I won’t begrudge them their wound-licking, so long as they do it in private; if it’s public we will all mock them as the whiners they are.

    P.S. Goldy, I know you asked us to come…but honestly (sigh). Grover Norquist? At an Outback Steak House? A tasteless little weasel served up with tasteless food? I think I need to get my feet scraped that day, or a root canal, or something.

  20. 34

    GBS spews:

    I-burn @ 31:

    HUGE difference here, you guys were winning elections based on your culture of corruption, lies, and dishonesty. As your first president said:
    You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

    The Dems are going to establish a generational dominance in politics like the last time we went through this Dems controlled congress for 40 years.

    It may be longer this run. Your leaders did a lot of damage to this country that won’t be fixed any time soon. Bush and the Republicans failures over the last 8 years will haunt America for decades and be a sore reminder as to why we (Americans) won’t vote for the R’s.

    Barak Obama is bringing in all the youth. A whole new wave of minorities whose full effect has yet to reveal itself. That means Democrats in control for at LEAST 40 years.

    It won’t be permanent to say the least, but many of us will be dead by the time America has another Republican congress.

    Get used to the idea.

  21. 36


    @31, too true, but I am reminded of a statement by some Republican Operative/blogger shortly after the D’s were crushed in November 2004:

    George Bush won a 2nd term as President. And because of this, the Republican Party will be out of power for the next 20 years.

  22. 37

    I-Burn spews:

    @34 Seems to me that you’re whistling past the graveyard… Time will tell the tale though, I suppose.

    And just as an aside, good chance that had WWII not come along, the Dems would have been booted out of office long before 40 years. You don’t have one of those to ride now; y’all planning on running on Bush’s record for the next few decades? Good luck with that… No matter how bad things are, or you perceive them to be, you all aren’t getting another 40 years of control.

  23. 38

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    Good for you Goldy. Don’t let the right wing, inbred cowards push you around. While they won’t admit it in public, I am sure secretly, some of them will learn a thing or two from actually hearing (maybe for the first time) the truth.

    While you’re there, check in the audience for a big, 400-pound, aids-infested cow calling herself Mrs. Pooper.

  24. 39

    GBS spews:

    I-Burn @ 37:

    Baaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa haaa

    Pick up a history book CHUMP! And, then we’ll talk. WWII, huh!

    Oh, that’s rich you fool.

  25. 40

    I-Burn spews:

    @39 Pick up a history book? Hell, boy, I could *write* one.

    Anything about that period you’d care to debate, bring it on. CHUMP!

  26. 41

    GBS spews:

    I-“dunno” @ 39:

    Have you EVER heard of a guy named Sen McCarthy?

    Yeah, here’s a free clue for you. Ask an adult to help you read a history book about Sen. McCarthy.

    This proof that you conservatives either don’t know your history or you like to revise it.

    Which is it Dumb ASS???

  27. 42

    Don Joe spews:

    Piper @ 20 & 23

    Well, if you want to quote the Bible directly, the correct answer would be to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Your interpretation of that concept might be correct, but it doesn’t become so through shear force of positive assertion. Care to provide some exegesis there?

    Personally, I favor the notion that to blaspheme the Holy Spirit would entail a claim, of some form or another, to being a prophet or to, in some way, assert some direct connection to God. When people say, “God told me…,” I fear they’re getting dangerously close.

  28. 45

    I-Burn spews:


    What in your tiny, little, so-called mind are you trying to say? McCarthy was the reason the Dems controlled congress for 40 years? You surely aren’t that ignorant. Or are you?

  29. 46

    GBS spews:

    Well dickweed, let me put it this way.

    WWII happend in the ’40’s. Too much information or can you digest that much?

  30. 47

    GBS spews:

    McCartyism happened in the 50’s. OK? get it?

    That’s the next decade after WWII. Too fast? Too much yet?

  31. 48

    GBS spews:

    In the mid 50’s R-E-P-U-B-L-I-C-A-N-S controlled congress which is why Sen. McCarthy a Republican did all the stupid shit he did.

    With me so far?

  32. 49

    GBS spews:

    Then in the 50’s the Republicans lost control of congress to the Democrats.

    How ya’ doin’ so far?

  33. 50

    I-Burn spews:

    @46 WWII happened in the 40’s? Duh!

    Like I said, anything about that period you’d care to debate. Assuming, of course, that you can frame a cogent argument, for once.

    Here’s a free clue for you – When the US entered the war, the country was still in the depths of the depression. True, or false?

  34. 51

    GBS spews:

    Add 40 years and we’re in the 90’s when the Repubicans took control of congress.

    Whew! Almost there. Just one more dot to connect.

    Bonus points: Can you connect the final dot?

  35. 52



    If you reject the Holy Spirit, you reject the forgiveness of Christ since you cannot receive the former unless you accept the latter.

    It’s not simply a matter of saying bad things about the Holy Spirit, it’s turning away from the opportunity to receive His indwelling person.

    Otherwise, all other earthly sins can be forgiven, though the earthly consequences thereof may have to be experienced.

    The Piper

  36. 54

    GBS spews:

    I-dunno @ 37 wrote:

    And just as an aside, good chance that had WWII not come along, the Dems would have been booted out of office long before 40 years.

    Do you see your error of omission and math yet?

  37. 56



    Goldy and I both have the EFF as good friends or pals – we share something in common.

    You have yet to demonstrate an ability to establish or maintain an interpersonal relationship with any human being.

    You did, though, go out of your way to demean Goldy’s friends at EFF. I’ve always considered it that when you demean my friends, you demean me.

    You demeaned Goldy’s friends, ergo you demeaned Goldy.

    The Piper

  38. 57

    GBS spews:


    Complie that list of Reichert’s accomplishments yet?

    I mean, c’mon, how long does it take to put nothing on a list?

  39. 58

    Don Joe spews:

    Piper @ 52

    The word the Bible uses is “blaspheme,” not “reject”. As I understand, those two aren’t mere synonyms. Got any references that show otherwise?

  40. 59

    GBS spews:


    It’s been 5 minutes since I spelled it out for you.

    I’ll accept your silence as you yielding to my superior intellect.

  41. 61

    I-Burn spews:


    Are you aware that the Dems controlled congress, except for a couple of brief periods, from 1932 until 1994?

    My contention was that had WWII not happened, that there is a good chance that that would not have been the case. I stand by that.

    You confused me by mentioned the 40 years after McCarthy, when I had talked about WWII.

  42. 63



    I respect your questions and scriptural knowledge.

    To blaspheme the HS isn’t merely to speak ill of Him; it’s to ultimately turn your back on him such that you deny His witness of Christ, which, in turn, means to deny Christ.

    It is through the prompting of the HS that we are drawn to Christ in the first place, and to continue to deny that prompting is to blaspheme the one who causes it to happen.

    The Piper

  43. 64

    GBS spews:


    That spin used to work, but after Scottie’s confessional book not so much.

    I didn’t qualify my statement. You ran your mouth off and tried to spin it.

    Now, see if you can help Piper compile that list of Reichert’s accomplishments.

    Milk and cookies for you boys if you just try your best. OK?

    Run a long, Laura is about to read My Pet Goat to W. You can listen in, too. Then it’s nappy time.

    The adults need to have grown-up talk.

  44. 65

    GBS spews:

    I-Dunno @ 61:

    Do you even think about what you’re writing before you hit the “Submit Comment” button?

    You’re arguing against yourself, dumb ASS!

  45. 66

    I-Burn spews:


    I don’t need to spin anything. In fact, you didn’t even address my original assertion. You made an erroneous assumption just as surely as I did. Do you at least have the intellectual honesty to admit it? I doubt it. Perhaps you’ll surprise me, though.

  46. 67

    GBS spews:

    I mean, COME ON, I-dunno, WWII happened in the 40’s the next decade the Dems lose control of congress.

    How the fuck did winning two wars at the same time help us???

    Perhaps, the culture of corruption that is known as McCarthyism was more than Americans could handle and maybe that lead to the demise of Republican control.

    Seems to be a pattern of abusing power with you Republicans doesn’t it?

  47. 68

    GBS spews:

    I-Dunno @ 66:

    Yes, you do need to spin it and furthermore, you did spin it.

    Go back and read your original point and how I countered it, then, your erroneous statement pooped out of your fingertips.

    Big guy.

  48. 69

    YLB spews:

    63 – Much, much closer than the first glib throw off.

    And Don Joe had to save your ass.

    Thanks for playing.

  49. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @19 We’ll forgive Goldy because he’s a patriot, but we won’t forgive you because you’re a traitor.

    In addition, when Goldy says “friends” he’s being satirical, but when you say “pals” you mean it.

  50. 72

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @31 It makes no difference to us whether we run against the GOP, or the Rethugs and Libertines split the nut vote. Either way, you guys are a second-rate franchise.

  51. 73

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @33 Root canal sounds good. Better than listening to that little snot Nordquist carry on about how billionaires are overtaxed, anyway.

  52. 74

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @37 Even your faith in George W. Bonehead has collapsed! You’re admitting he won’t realize his dream of starting World War III before leaving office.

  53. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @40 So what? I could write a comic book. And my comic book will be at least as good as your history book.

  54. 76

    Don Joe spews:

    Piper @ 63

    I was hoping for a bit more. Smith, Easton and Holman, to cite but a few, each give slightly different variations on the theme.

    However, none of them, nor you, for that matter, seem to address the context of the statements that Jesus made. In particular, Jesus specifically calls out blasphemy against the Son of Man (Jesus Himself) as being a forgivable sin. That context seems to suggest that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit isn’t something that can be altered through some change of heart, no? If that’s the case, isn’t your definition, even your more complete definition, still a bit short of the mark?

  55. 77

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @45 McCarthy inspired an entire generation of voters to believe that Republicans are liars, drunks, and fascists. Which happens to be true. It was true then and still is.

  56. 78

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    Pooper let me be clear here…you couldn’t win a debate in grade school and wearing your cute little skirt while you play your horn won’t win one here either.

    And if you’re a representative of Christianity – I VERY much look forward to Hell.

    Now – leave me alone because in addition to fucking your wife up the ass tonight, I have to service your ugly sister. Whew – it’s a tough job but someone has to do it.

  57. 79

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @56 “I’ve always considered it that when you demean my friends, you demean me.”

    That’s the idea.

  58. 80



    If you consider that unforgiveness only attaches at death, then a contextual understanding of blaspheming of the HS necessarily leads one to the conclusion that up until the last second, you can be forgiven for denying His call upon your life.

    Once you’ve shuffled off the mortal coil, all bets are off – there are no second chances then.

    Also contextual is the definition of “blaspheme.” If you’re talking the popular definition, that’s one thing. But if you define it as a showing of ultimate disrespect, in other words a refusal of Him, then that’s another thing entirely.

    I don’t think you can be forever condemned by the slip of the tongue or even an intentional utterance, although it is interesting that what most would consider blasphemous statements associated with both the Father and the son are too numerous for words.

    You never hear anyone utter anything similar associated with the HS.

    Each of us blasphemes the HS until the moment of conviction, repentance, and salvation. But those who die still in a state of blasphemy cannot, by definiton, be forgiven.

    Curious…what is your theological tradition – mine is Baptist.

    The Piper

  59. 81

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @31: You accuse me of “making an assumption” when I made none, then you surmise a “certainty” that is obviously based upon an unstated assumption.

    I am at a loss to respond to such obvious nonsense.

  60. 83

    Don Joe spews:

    Piper @ 80

    If you consider that unforgiveness only attaches at death, then a contextual understanding of blaspheming of the HS necessarily leads one to the conclusion that up until the last second, you can be forgiven for denying His call upon your life.

    Two points. First, Jesus doesn’t make that distinction in either of the three statements where reference to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is made.

    Second, the forgiveness of all sins is predicated upon acceptance of the Holy Spirit and repentance. Your formulation, essentially, makes no distinction whatsoever between blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and any other sin, yet Jesus clearly held up a difference.

    For that reason, I have to believe that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a much stronger act than you describe.

    Curious…what is your theological tradition

    I don’t have one. My mother was Lutheran and my father was Catholic. Neither of them practiced either during my youth, and I’ve made it a point to become acquainted with a variety of religions over the years.

    Indeed, were I to choose a single religious tradition, I think it would be Baha’i. I find the Baha’i concept of progressive revelation to be very compelling.

    My largest stumbling block is the prohibition against involvement in partisan politics. While I understand the concept from the Baha’i point of view, I would find it very difficult to sit on my hands when I see the corruption and dissembling dishonesty that so permeates politics in this country.

  61. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @82 Maybe that explains why Mrs. Rabbit married me in a Baptist church? And why, after our wedding, the preacher ditched his wife and ran off with the best woman? I gave the guy a gratuity for marrying us, and next thing you know he’s on a Greyhound bus to Portland with the best woman, possibly having purchased the tickets with my money. I was always suspicious of Baptists and this episode made me even more suspicious of them. Neither of us are Baptists; Mrs. Rabbit was raised as a Catholic, so I can’t explain why we got hitched in a Baptist church by an absconding preacher. It’s complicated. We were in a hurry and it was either that or a priest, and we didn’t know any priests at the time. It makes a good story, though. This was one of those Baptist churches where you get re-baptized by wading into a tank of water up to your waist. At least they let you wear old clothes for that. They had a swimming pool in front of the altar, can you imagine that? Like I said, getting married to Mrs. Rabbit was a bit weird but it makes a good story.

  62. 85

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @83 Considering politics’ potential to blow up the world (see, e.g., Hitler), it’s hard to avoid politics if you care what happens to people. If you ignore politics, politics will come to you, so you’re going to be involved with politics one way or another.