Friday I attended opening night of the Intiman’s new production of The Grapes of Wrath, based on Frank Galati’s Tony Award winning adaptation of the John Steinbeck classic. Back in 1990 Frank Rich was the New York Times’ main theater reviewer, much feared for scathing reviews that were often more entertaining than their subject matter. However Rich was atypically effusive of the Steppenwolf Theatre Company’s “majestic” production:
“[Frank Galati’s adaptation] is true to Steinbeck because it leaves one feeling that the generosity of spirit that he saw in a brutal country is not so much lost as waiting once more to be found.”
It is hard to watch a production of The Grapes of Wrath without unfairly comparing the performances to that of the 1940 film adaptation or the original Steppenwolf production (available on video), but while audiences accustomed to Henry Fonda or Gary Sinese may have trouble envisioning another actor in the lead role of Tom Joad, the Intiman cast did a wonderful job overall. And as always, the Intiman delivers a top notch production, including a piece of clever stagecraft that prompted my 8-year-old daughter to loudly proclaim “Cool!”
(While the show is ably directed by Seattle Children’s Theater Artistic Director Linda Hartzell, this is by no means a kid’s show, and I wouldn’t necessarily recommend taking the typical 8-year-old to see it. However, mine loved all 2.5 hours of it… though she’s still asking questions about the ending.)
Now I don’t generally do theater reviews, but I bring this up for two reasons. First, I wanted to plug tonight’s Open Minds/Open Dialogue panel discussion at the Intiman, “Soil, Salmon and Survival“, which explores the connection between The Grapes of Wrath and the land and water of this region. The discussion will be moderated by The Stranger’s Charles Mudede, and will include farm labor organizer and former migrant worker Rosalinda Guillen, salmon recovery expert and advocate Barbara Cairns, travel writer and novelist Jonathon Raban, and Millie Judge, who manages the Land Use and Environmental Law unit of the Snohomish County Prosecutor’s Civil Division.
The discussion starts at 7:30 PM, and is free to the public… but please RSVP via e-mail, or by calling 206-269-1901 Ext. 395. I wish I could be there, but my very busy daughter and I will be attending an equally engaging Girl Scout troop meeting instead.
The second reason I bring up The Grapes of Wrath is because as I was watching this classic story of the Joad’s struggle to survive in California after fleeing the Oklahoma Dust Bowl of the 1930’s… I couldn’t help but wonder what the arch-righty trolls on HA would make of Steinbeck’s infuriating tale of the abuse and exploitation these refugees suffered at the hands of greedy landowners. We have grown so accustomed to hearing angry, anti-union vitriol coming from the right, that we sometimes lose sight of the kind of brutal economic (and physical) injustice workers might still fear today if not for the efforts of organized labor. And it is also curious to note how seventy years later, the right is still employing the same red-baiting rhetoric.
The mark of a classic is timelessness, and The Grapes of Wrath is as relevant today as it was the day it was published. If you like great theater, go see the show.
The Grapes of Wrath remains one of my favorite books. There’s another book I like also (about Cesar Chavez) but I can’t remember its title.
goldy, are you going to the Open Minds/Open Dialogue panel discussion you mentioned?
#2: Time to go to bed earlier…or read the whole post…or…
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The discussion starts at 7:30 PM, and is free to the public� but please RSVP via e-mail, or by calling 206-269-1901 Ext. 395. I wish I could be there, but my very busy daughter and I will be attending an equally engaging Girl Scout troop meeting instead.
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He can’t be everywhere :-)
A man who swears publicly, frequently, of course would take his 8 year old daughter to a play for adults…
Goldy, you are just one more person helping pull our morals and culture into the gutter.
‘I couldn’t help but wonder what the arch-righty trolls on HA would make of Steinbeck’s infuriating tale of the abuse and exploitation these refugees suffered at the hands of greedy landowners.’
I’ll take the bait. I actually think unions were a good method to force changes in the business culture. The old slave-owner model was destined to fail even with little or no competition from abroad. The ardent communistic roots of labor movement, however, became its downfall due lack of merit-based compensation and the transition of many union jobs to commodities. As more of the jobs performed by unions become automated the market value of that labor goes down.
Another benefit the unions provided was enormous incentive to automate many tasks. I do not think there would have been nearly as much progress in computer technology had the labor costs tracked market value over the last 30-40 years. Goldy might not have even conceptualized about this blog until he was applying for the Medicare prescription benefit.
The end of trade unions as we know them is almost here. The legacy airlines and automotive copmpanies that are not already bankrupt will either gain major union concessions or go down in flames. The same thing will happen soo in the grocery business, one of the last relatively low-skilled sectors to see much automation. The major union growth area has been with government workers, yet that pendulum will swing back as those wages and benefits ratchet up to further exceed equivalent jobs in the private sector.
Again, the growth of unions during the early to mid-1900s had many positive attributes. Not among them, however, was any tendency to moderize with the US economy or shed the communistic beliefs that became obsolete in the 20th century.
4-
WTF kind of dumbass are you…never mind.
I KNOW what kind of dumbass repressive rightwing asshole you are.
Keep the populace underpaid and underinformed so you can have your way with their time and treasure. Just as long as ‘ol righton gets his…FUCK everybody else.
I too, believe in children getting exposed to how the world really works and I have thrree aware, informed youngs adults to give to the world and one who shows inclinations toward being politically active.
So as you can see…I STRONGLY disagree!
I read in The News Tribune this morning about a group of folks living in a trailer park on Pacific Highway in Lakewood who are apparently going to be forced from the trailer park due to development. The land was purchased by a development LLC owned by a gentleman living in Fircrest. It seems the real estate boom has added potential value to properties adjacent to and visible from I-5. Unfortunately for the folks living in the trailer court, the property has both attributes.
Some of the folks living in trailers have been there for over 30 years. Their concerns are that their trailers would literally fall apart if they tried to move them to another location. The new owner has given them all one year to move out and apparently has raised the rent. The situation reminded me of the Joad Family and Steinbeck’s book.
I have no real solution to the plight of the people living in the trailer court. The only thing I can see that would help would be a charitable intervention.
I read that book in Senior English/English 99. Then you wonder why I support property rights, which will maintain private property ownership. Helps when I sit on seven acres of pristine farmland as I write this…
But the owners of that farmland need to be good environmental stewards at the same time. The CAO is just too far and if that comes up to Skagitonia, I’ll do anything I can to stop it.
Oh and BTW, THIS may be of interest.
Libertarian
Contrary to other beliefs i/others espouse, the disappearance of low income housing bugs me. I recall angst about 10 yrs ago when the flophouses started disappearing.
If the area turns into all $500k+ houses, we’ll be like some ski resort with workers driving from 100 miles out..
I know the gov’t solution to this is bad (crime ridden projects), but I’m not sure if we have any non-charity solutions? Offer high density if the homes are cheap, for the common person?
All that said, the cheap labor will be in China anyhow, so its not like we’ll have workingmen building widgets and needing housing…. yipes
I loved the book, although its the most depressing shit ever. The little guy just gets screwed by “market forces.” I like how Tom Joad wanted to shoot the bankers, but was told you have to shoot their bosses, and their bosses, and so on. Too many people to shoot, I guess.
our morals and culture into the gutter.
Wrong one,
The morals and culture are already in the gutter: you exist.
yearight,
Typical right-wing union-hating bullshit! Ardent communistic roots? That is so fucked up! The freaking Romans had unions! They called them fucking guilds! That was just a little bit before Marx and Engels.
Another rant for MTR and the rest of the “invisible hand” crowd:
People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary.
What paranoid-delusional Marxist-Leninist said that?
Adam Freaking Smith in the Wealth of Nations!
For the right-wing bullshit artist it’s completely ok for businesses to collude to manipulate markets and screw workers like ADM and many others did and do but it’s “communistic” for labor to organize to defend their interests.
FTC @ 11:
You’re missing something important here (watch for the sleight-of-hand closely, or you’ll miss it).
Large Corporations and their management have the interests of consumers at heart. If they did not, consumers would go elsewhere. The primary interests of consumers are lower priced goods.
Labor unions, demanding reasonable working conditions, shorter hours, better wages, are driving costs up. These costs must be passed on to consumers.
Ergo, labor unions are working against consumers.
Are you sputtering? Good. That’s a normal reaction.
If everyone is working for minimum wage, workers (who are also consumers, remember?), will have no disposable income to buy things past subsistence needs. Unless you hold stock in Wal-Mart or wherever people at the bottom of society go to shop, you are not benefiting. While low wages benefit manufacturers and retailers (and yes, even consumers) in the short term, they are destroying their customer base in the long term.
Clueless-11 ‘The freaking Romans had unions!’
So all unions are alike throughout history? I have no idea what form the ancient unions took. The communist roots, as well as the basic philosophy of the unions in the US are well documented. The fact that you only defend against what I stated with unrelated rants is very helpful.
Righton: Oh, yeah, Goldy is the one pulling our morals and culture into the gutter by exposing his child to a play about real life moral and ethical issues. Wait one…that DOESN”T MAKE ANY fucking SENSE. “Plays” are usually defined as “culture” in most western societies and, since it deals with a valid moral question in today’s society, it’s ENCOURAGING the child to question and think for herself. Ah, I see where your issue is: She’s being tought to think, not indoctrinated. And, if the show was above her level, great. Gotta challenge the kids if you want them to grow/learn/think. (BTW: Do you even have school age children? Trying to counter the flood of American “culture” (shudder) they get from other sources is a Sisyphian task.)
I think you should save your outrage for what any average 8 year old sees on TV every day, dude, instead of upbraiding Goldy.
Larry,
Naw, the whole culture is vulgare. Of course our kids only get screened DVDs, so call us amish.
Goldy augments the vulgarity by encouraging public profanity, and I haven’t read Grapes for years, nor seen the play, but I think its awesome teaching at a later age, not appropriate at 8.
Of course you guys defended BJs in the oval office…
yearight @ 13:
Two questions:
Can you explain the communist base of modern labor unions? However you feel about the compensation level of union labor, I fail to see anything inherently “communist” in collective bargaining for the best wage possible.
Second, explain the difference between the core Marxist dictate of the workers controlling the means of production and varying degrees of employee ownership as practiced by a variety of US corporations.
It seems to me the real Marxists can be found at Krispy Kreme and Microsoft, not at the UAW.
yearight: you’re a brainwashed right-wing zealot and apologist for the exploiter class. Unions existed way before Marx, period. Unionization in the industrial era had to exist otherwise labor would be chewed up and spit out like so many raw materials for the benefit of the ownership class without ANY regard for the human costs.
Communism had little to do with the mainstream of unionism in this country. When unions make gains in this country, the exploiter class dream up paranoid delusions of “godless communism ” which fools like you only only too readily swallow.
jsa: A decent society cares that its citizens can make a living wage. A predatory corporation like Walmart doesn’t care about that. A customer is just a cash cow to be milked of dollars until it can’t be milked any longer. The beneficiaries of this attitude in the case of Walmart are the Walton Family and Wall Street. They’ll keep the party going on as long as they can and when it all collapses – they’ll just move on to the next party, fat and happy.
Many companies believe it or not have constructive relationships with their unions – Alcoa under the leadership of Paul O’Neil was an example.
jsa on beacon hill-16 ‘I fail to see anything inherently “communist” in collective bargaining for the best wage possible.’
You only mentioned one aspect of union methods. I actually think the collective bargaining eventually gets tamed by the market. If the corporations get coerced into cost that are too high either the company will fail or the workers are forced to make concessions. The communist roots have fluorished in areas such like worker senority as opposed to worker skill or productivity, as well as the basic treatment as a group rather than individuals.
‘..workers controlling the means of production and varying degrees of employee ownership..’
Not sure what you are looking for here. There are hundreds of different employee ownership programs, and most that I have heard of work more like typical stockholder relationships.
‘It seems to me the real Marxists can be found at Krispy Kreme and Microsoft, not at the UAW.’
Now you would have Marx rolling in his grave.
Naw, the whole culture is vulgare. Of course our kids only get screened DVDs, so call us amish.
Goldy augments the vulgarity by encouraging public profanity, and I haven’t read Grapes for years, nor seen the play, but I think its awesome teaching at a later age, not appropriate at 8.
Of course you guys defended BJs in the oval office…
Righton: There is just a wealth of targets here, where to start:
1) “The whole culture is vulgare” Searched the web for vulgare, and the only reference to it I could find has to do with plants. Assuming you meant “vulgar” and were either trying to be cultured by usign the French word (which it isn’t) or you are just a terrible speller. Vulgar is a pretty common and short word, how could you mess it up. Hmmmm. Interestingly, the root for Vulgar is from Latin, and it means of the masses, ordinary, common. Well, yes, our American culture is largely “common”. So screening DVD’s doesn’t make you Amish, it makes you “elitest”.
2) “awesome teaching at a later age”: Sending the boys and girls off to die in Iraq at 18. So when do we teach this? Those kids ain’t never gonna see college. Also, I’d think most of you conservatives would prefer it never saw the light of day, as y’all may end up being the first one’s put up against the wall when the revolution comes ;-)Finally, my kid is 8 as well, and, while it’d be a stretch, I think she’d get it. Kids have bigger hearts than adults, I think. My 8 yr old was the one who started us selling cookies door to door to help Katrina victims. Why? Because we taught her that we are extrodinarily privliged people to live where we do and how we do, and it’s always a good time to “pay it forward”. (We’re also teaching here to resist The Man. Be afraid.)
3) It’s always about Clinton with you guys, isn’t it. We’ll I’d rather it was about some guy have sex in the Oval Office (which, after all, is a natural urge)than about having my officials lie to me to send our kids to war and trash our budget (which was about the use, or abuse, of power, and is very, very unnatural). And, finally, shame on you for bringing it up (however much of a non-sequiter it was), but if that’s the best club you got in your golf bag, you elitist, heartless, warmongering, ideological scum, I’m feeling better already. Someone in the Shrub’s office is likely going to jail for TREASONOUS behavior. Doen’t that make you just a little less proud to be a conservative or an American?
Clueless-17 ‘Communism had little to do with the mainstream of unionism in this country.’
If it makes you feel better to believe that go for it. You may, however, be surprised once you read up on the enormous growth period for the unions in the US, and who were providing the foundation.
‘Many companies believe it or not have constructive relationships with their unions’
No argument here, although I do think the future is bleak. A lot of union/company harmony is paved with ability to pass on higher costs and/or charging future pensions and health care to future sales that will probably not materialize. Witness the current troubles of the airline and automotive industries.
‘A decent society cares that its citizens can make a living wage.’
As long as the wage is not beyond the market value. If more money is needed and approved by the “decent society” then tax money should be used to supplement.
Corporations want us to control their excesses. They can’t do it for themselves.
Larry, larry, larry.
Thread is on play, Goldy mentioned his 8 yr old able to handle stuff beyond her years. I commented how in general Goldy is corrupting his daughter, and us.
How come i now see license plate holders w/ “F** you ” on them
People humping on primetime MTV shows
Britney and her ilk in the checkout line mags..
I know sailors and others have curse, gone whoring, etc, but today that stuff trickles into every forum.
You ok w/ 5 year olds cursing? Watching porn? Old ladies telling cops to “F**” off?
Where does it end?
Righton: So many targets, so little time. Where to start?
1) “the whole culture is vulgare”: Well, I searched the web and the only reference I found to vulgare had to do with plants, so you are either poorly edumacated (as the word is short, easy to spell and not rare), or you were trying to use the French (which, by the way, it ain’t. That would be vulgaire). Interestingly enough, the root of vulgar in Latin is ordinary, common, of the people. And, yes, American culture is largely common. So, by screening your DVD’s you aren’t being Amish, but rather elitist.
2) “awesome teaching at a later age”: Since we’re sending the boys and girls to Iraq to die at 18, what’s the appropriate age? These kids ain’t never gonna see no college and get themselves edumacated like you. Besides, generally conservatives would like to keep this one off the shelves and stages, as it’s widespread absorption might contribute to them being the first ones up against the wall to be shot, come the revolution. I actually think my 8 yr old would have been receptive to the message, especially since kids hearts are bigger than adults. She was the one in my family who started the move to bake and sell cookies door to door for Katrina victims. She did so because we taught her that we are extaodinarily privliged to live where we do and how we do and it’s never to soon to “pay it forward”. (We’re also teaching her to fight The Man. Be afraid.)
3) Damn. It’s always about Clinton with you guys. Well, first I’d rather it was about sex (which is, after all, a natural urge) than lies and sending us to war (which was about the use and abuse of power, and is disturbingly unnatural). Second, if that’s the best club you’ve got in your bag, I’m feeling better already. And third, I’m more than happy to debate the issues, but when heartless, repulsive, greedy conservative scum apologists like you drag up a peccadillo from three terms ago that was uncovered as the result of a conservative witch hunt/fishing expediton, I’m done with you. Shame and fie! In my book, treason, lying to the American public and the death of over a thousand US citizens and countless Iraqi civilians IS A BIGGER FUCKING DEAL THAN HOW CLINTON GOT HIS DICK WET.
As long as the wage is not beyond the market value.
Those are the code words for a huge cut in the standard of living here in America – the ultimate dream of the ownership class in th is country. 99% have less while the top 1% have much much more.
if more money is needed and approved by the “decent society” then tax money should be used to supplement.
You have to get with the Bush II program yearight. It’s not “tax money” that should be used – it’s religious and faith-based programs’ money that should be used. “Approved” is an interesting word – that must mean “voted” on by the people. Well if the Republicans are controlling the Diebold machines – we all know how that’s going to turn out.
You have a lot in common with the worst of the communists – a blind unquestioning belief in a narrow dogma. Most people who joined the communist party in this country dreamed of a better world where the people whose pain and sweat that produced the wealth in this economy would actually benefit from that wealth instead of being used up and spit out by the ownership class. Unfortuntely those rank and file communists were dominated by narrow dogmatists like you who followed the Leninist or Stalinist line.
The collapse of the economy in the late twenties and thirties just about soured most people on the dogma of laissez-faire capitalism. If socialism didn’t exit then someone would have invented it as a response to the total failure of the laissez-faire dogma. The New Deal struck a balance – a balance that wingnuts have been fighting since the New Deal was conceived. The wingnuts’ generations-long reaction has culminated in the utter disaster of the Bush II regime.
One size fits all solutions never work whether from the left or the right and that’s exactly what you and the rest of the winger trolls are selling on this comment board. Give it up. No-one with any sense is buying.
yearight @ 18,
I don’t want to go very far out on a limb defending either unions or Marx. I’ve worked in union shops. They’re not a lot of fun. I don’t do that anymore. I’ve read Marx, and like to think that I understand what he was going on about, but would not consider myself a Marxist in any way, shape, or form.
I rather like Deng Xiaoping, who said “不管白貓黑貓， 能抓到老鼠就是好貓” (It does not matter if a cat is black or white. A cat that catches mice is a good cat).
I do, however, get annoyed at people who seem to equate worker’s rights with Communism. It’s lazy and poorly thought out for the most part. I also get annoyed with doctrinaire leftists who consider capitalism to be inherently evil, but there are no doctrinaire leftists to argue with today, so I’ll pick on you.
Marx was looking at the inherent inequality in rewards between the folks who actually produced products and those that owned the plants that made it capable to produce products. He scribbled a book or two on his analysis of this. When Marx wrote Das Kapital in 1867, the industrial revolution was still in its first draft. I don’t know what he would have written if he was looking at the economy in 2005. I suspect it would have been somewhat different. I do not see anything about employee ownership of companies that would have tugged Marx’s beard.
One of the failures of Bad Old Eastern Block Soc-yi-al-ism is that Marx’s ideas of 1867 were put under glass. Anyone who argued to even modify them was counter-revolutionary, petit bourgeois, you-pai-jiao or whatever the prevailing slogan was. Doctrinaire ideology is generally bad whether it enforces Communism, Capitalism, Neo-Conservatism, or whatever your ism of the week is.
As for unions, they have their uses, but they also can’t defy gravity. Moving products is very cheap these days, which means that moving labor is also very cheap. Unions that can’t deliver product are dying. Ones that are more up-to-date are still alive and well.
My half-assed theory is that there’s sort of a “magic point” where unions seem to work fairly well. Unskilled labor has always had trouble unionizing. When anyone can do a job, they will get anyone to do it. You can strike, resort to violence, kill foremen or whatever. It doesn’t work. Likewise, very highly skilled knowledge workers don’t organize well. There’s too much difference in productivity between a genius programmer and a mediocre one. As such, union organization in tech has been slow, to say the least.
We could distribute ALL of the wealth in the country, and, within a year or two, there’d be poor people and there’d be rich people. They may not be the SAME rich and poor as today, but there would still be those who had wealth and those who didn’t.
It seems a paradox, but having wealth is meaningless unless others do not have wealth. Government’s role is to create an environment where we have the opportunity to produce and grow our personal fortunes. Re-distributing wealth through govenment edict negates personal initiative and renders wealth insignificant.
Clueless-24 ‘Those are the code words for a huge cut in the standard of living here in America..’
The standard of living continues to rise despite the grim predictions. The class warfare lines do not work as well these days, as more of the poor and middle class become investors and start small businesses. Or , get knocked off the tax rolls altogether.
‘You have to get with the Bush II program yearight.’
I am there. I was, however, referring to your egalitarian ideals for “living wages”. If society agrees that the already-generous welfare, Social Security and unemployment systems should provide more, then the tax money should provide the extra. Forcing higher wages down the throat of business is more like the world you perceive under Bush.
‘..that must mean “voted” on by the people..’
Where provided for by law. In the absence of initiatives I fully support the republic form of government. If the majority of those elected pass the laws…
‘Well if the Republicans are controlling the Diebold machines..’
OK, it is tin hat time. Does it also go that because dems controll the machines and processes in KC that no repub stands a chance?
‘Most people who joined the communist party in this country dreamed of a better world..’
Most also dream of winning the lottery, yet dreams alone do not get you squat. The tenents of communism can only succeed if all individuals are crammed into a common pot. The bar must lowered for everyone to the point where everyone is poor and oppressed.
‘..wingnuts have been fighting since the New Deal was conceived..’
The fight against middle-class entitlements that even the rich prosper from is never going to happen. Too many voters stand to lose their money today despite how bad it makes it for their kids. Many conservatives are satisfied to let the programs sink themselves, as is happening in Europe today. The ponzi schemes can only go for so long before they implode on themselves. That is why when anyone except the government sells them it is against the law.
‘One size fits all solutions never work..’
The irony here is that everything unions stand for and fight for is exactly what you seem to criticize. The New Deal programs are also patterned after the “one size fits all”, as are many other lefty causes such as public schools.
‘No-one with any sense is buying.’
If giving up in the face of repeated failures was admirable you would not be spewing on this or any other board.
Libertarian-25 ‘They may not be the SAME rich and poor as today.
Bravo. That is even the case with the system we have today, and have had for decades. The movement up and down the income quintiles disproves almost every leftist theory pertaining to the poor and rich in the US.
Righton, comment 22: The answer to all your questions is: The First amendment. What does any of that have to do with Goldy taking his kid to a play that is conceptually advanced? Note I did not say mature or adult. The themes of the play are not “dirty” or, more importantly, “violent”. Why are you so concerned about swear words. They are merely trapping, they don’t signify. If you don’t like popular american culture, work to change it….by taking your children to a play, perhaps? LOL
Noticed you didn’t really respond on issues, but just went off on a different tangent. I wonder why? Is it so you could get onto a talking point about values? Pfft. With several key administration figures likely to be indicted and, even if not convicted, already shown to be the morally bankrupt ideologues, I’ll pre-empt your whole “family values” rant as a) hypocritical and b) bullshit… oh, sorry, horse pucky.
Larry the Urbanite-28 ‘I’ll pre-empt your whole “family values” rant as a) hypocritical..’
That is exactly what the right wants the left to do. It makes winning elections in most of the US so much easier.
Righton: I should have said “your alleged commitment to family values”. But, I think you’ll find that knife cuts both ways. The conservatives have no excuses now that the contry has been under the right’s control for the past 4 yrs. The poor stewardship and the numerous indictments make for great soundbites, don’t you think?
See you at the polls!
Larry, come on, back on target..
What does Bush have to do with vulgarity? Cheney maybe (f word).
Remember NYC before Guiliani started policing the little things? I think the same thing happens w/ language, manners, clothes. Keep it clean and tidy and life is better for all.
@32
As I recall, Bush used the “F” word to a reporter in front of the reporter’s 8-y-o daughter.
Geez, Righton, give it a rest! Do you really think Bush doesn’t use foul language? Only in your fantasy world. You take bullshit to a new level of imagination.
I read “Grapes of Wrath” as a teenager, and the book made a profound impression on me. I think that’s when my compassion was born. Or at least, given unstoppable impetus. That was the beginning of the end of my youthful, naive, simplistics, Goldwater Republicanism. (Which I acquired by osmosis, as a result of growing up in a town where 95% of the adults were Republicans.) It’s a long book, and reading it was a labor, but when I finally closed the back cover on the last page of this novel, my world had changed. The scales had fallen from my eyes. Suddenly I was confronted with a world of suffering, deprivation, evil and greed that I didn’t know existed.
Three quarters of a century later, Steinbueck and his epic novel are still hated by right wingers.
Well done, John — rest in peace.
Tin Hat Boy @ 27
“OK, it is tin hat time. Does it also go that because dems controll the machines and processes in KC that no repub stands a chance?”
I guess so. That must explain why Repubs are close to a majority on the County Council, we have a Repub prosecutor, the 8th District which lies primarily in King County has a Repub congressman, and so on — it’s gotta be those rigged voting machines.
Righton: Back on target? Your own topic ADD is making me dizzy. This political tactic of trying to change the subject to one where you have a strong point might work well with the soundbite attention span of the American populus (sp?) but doesn’t really cut it here on the blog comment scene. That being said, it’s interesting that you should mention what does Bush have to do with vulgarity. We’ve all seen the video of a then Texas gubenatorial candidate Bush flipping the bird to the TV camera, we’ve all seen the video of the bird flip/head scratch of Pres. Bush to the press and Cheney’s “Go fuck yourself” comment got wide play in the press. By your own standards, these are not people who we should look to as examples and, therefore, should be voted out come next election. So, your point is? Where were you even going with your response?
And Bush/Cheney as defenders of American culture? Pfft. Even your own party is embarassed by them. How about you come up with a REAL argument of some sort, instead of just trying to get the last post.
yearight – Oh my you’ll defend your dogmatism to the end.
The standard of living continues to rise? Yes for the very few. Millions have no health insurance and many have entered poverty under the Bush II regime. This is surely progress. Most small business fail and are constantly preyed upon by the predatory practices of corporations like Walmart. The playing field is totally stacked against the unemployed worker trying to subsist as a small businessman.
I never said government had to “force” high wages although a minimum wage that at least meets the poverty line is desirable. A skilled and educated citizenry naturally commands a living wage. Government should enable that with the best public education system in the world.
“In the absence of initiatives”. Sweet. This means Eymanism is your standard of governance.
It almost goes without saying that Republicans do everything they can get away with to put roadblocks to people voting and Democrats support democracy. The KC system isn’t perfect but the transparency is there – I hear nothing about the transparency of KC elections from Republicans – that’s because it’s there and the Republicans have no argument.
‘let the programs sink themselves’ – with the help of huge tax cuts for the rich.
Bottom line dear right-wing priest: the Bush II regime’s incompetence and inattention to the American economy, i.e. let the “free market” handle it – is sending the world’s largest economy to the shoals. Financing a war with tax cuts is a total absurdity. But the worst will happen and you wingnuts will find a way to blame Bill Clinton.
The whole Great Depression thing never would have happened had Clinton not raised taxes and got his nob gobbled by that fat chick!
Clueless-38
‘let the programs sink themselves’ – with the help of huge tax cuts for the rich.’
‘The standard of living continues to rise?’
Yes, especially as the recession ended.
‘Millions have no health insurance and many have entered poverty under the Bush II regime.’
Left winger talking points. Health insurance is a poor measure due to the lack of market forces and twisted employer-supplied policies. Health care is being utilized at an ever increasing rate due to easy and cheap-to-the-user access. The whole concept of a ‘poverty line” has become a bunch of baloney. The “poor” in this country have ever-increasing luxuries such as multiple TVs with cable/satelite, cars and internet access. The real joke is that with all of the money poured into the welfare system each client could get a check for ~$27k per year. The system’s primary purpose is to provide good jobs and benefits for loyal dems. Also, there was a recession that was intensified by 9-11.
‘I never said government had to “force” high wages..’
Well, the sweet talking of large employers like Wal-Mart is not working to counter the market. How else might the idealistic goals be attained?
‘This means Eymanism is your standard of governance.’
No. I do, however, appreciate the extent of pork-barrel spending due to the constant re-election campaigns. I think the “system” needs occasional shocks to keep the representatives on edge. Initiatives are a good way for that to happen. (For both sides of the political spectrum.)
‘It almost goes without saying that Republicans do everything they can get away with to put roadblocks to people voting and Democrats support democracy.’
If there are people that should not vote due to that small item we call laws, allowing such activity is NOT democratic. As for the dems supporting democracy – Ha Ha. There are always plently of dems standing out in support of their favored communists and socialists, even if we limit the time frame to post-Soviets.
‘I hear nothing about the transparency of KC elections from Republicans.’
It does not appear that you really hear much of anything from Republicans.
‘‘let the programs sink themselves’ – with the help of huge tax cuts for the rich.’
Those programs such as Social Security and Medicare are completely separate from the Federal income taxes. They have been sold as separate and self-supporting, just like the sales pitch for any ponzi scheme.
Larry, larry.
Lithium on aisle 12….
Post was about Goldy taking his kid to inappropriate show. I hijacked to say he’s just another vulgarian.
I’m against the private vulgarization (bush/cheney/bj’s) and more so the public vulgarization (foul shows, license plates, blogs). Where does it end? Caligula?
righton,
Didn’t Steinbeck win the Nobel Prize? I thought you righties were against unwarranted intrusion into the sanctity of the Family. Who are you to pass judgment on what art Goldy shares with his daughter?
If you’re against vulgarity, why on earth do you spend so much of your time here?
The discussion on this topic is way above average; it was a pleasure to read (particularly the Adam Smith and Deng Xiaoping) thanks to all.
Now righton is lecturing us about Caligula? Say, didn’t Caligula torture his prisoners? Detain people without charges or trial? Suppress dissent? In short, behave like a Republican?
I also so the play and blogged it, didn’t like it as well as you – the panel discussion even less. Yet they were valiant efforts in a theatrical environment dominated by the contributions of moneyed interests.
I also saw the play, attended the panel, and blogged them. Didn’t like the play as well as you.