Of all the many strategic weaknesses that currently disadvantage the Democratic Party, perhaps the greatest is the fact that it is so… democratic. I don’t know that party leaders actually value dissent from within, but they certainly seem incapable of squashing it.
Republicans on the other hand, have no such problem. And as the NY Times reveals, the current GOP leadership is taking party unity to a new extreme through rule changes in both the House and the Senate. First Tom DeLay maneuvered to make his position as majority leader ethics-proof, and now his counterpart in the Senate, Bill Frist, has passed rule changes designed to gag the few remaining Republican moderates. [Senator Frist Tightens the Screws]
The rule undercuts members’ independence by giving Dr. Frist the power to fill the first two vacancies on all committees. This hobbles seniority, which has been the traditional path to power. The leader now has a cudgel for shaping the “world’s greatest deliberative body” into a chorus line. Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine, chronic Republican maverick, got to the heart of the matter in skewering her leader’s accomplishment: “There is only one reason for that change, and it is to punish people.”
Washington State GOPolitburo chair Chris Vance has clearly displayed the same ham-handed penchant towards rigid party unity as his national counterparts (if not the same aptitude). So all you self-proclaimed “Dinocrats” get ready for some disappointment should Rossi win the re-recount. Even if Rossi were really as moderate as his soft-spoken ads made him out to be (he’s not), the GOP and its right-wing backers don’t tolerate marching to the beat of a different drummer. I expect a Rossi administration to cheerfully goose-step along.
Goldy–
Once again I appreciate your efforts to stir the pot and get folks thinking (something their is a vast shortage of).
I can only speak for myself..but I am far from a lockstep Republican. I voted for 7 Dems this time..some in response to R’s that failed to do or even try to do what they said they would on a local level. You don’t really expect us to believe however that the Leftist machine doesn’t “circle the wagons” whenever one of their elite steps in it??? Look at Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton etc.
Bad try Goldy…No sale here.
By the way Mr. Self-proclaimed open minded thinker……
Tell us Goldy, How many Republicans did you support in this election??? Just what I thought!!! It sure is easy when you lose to accuse the other side of lockstep support….until you look in the mirror and oooops!!!! You probably even voted for Deborah Senn!!!
I wasn’t talking about the electorate. I was talking about the party leadership.
GOLDY, GOLDY, GOLDY–
And the party leadership isn’t to a large degree a reflection of the electorate??? If you blindly support terrible candidates like Senn because she is a (D)—don’t you think the party leadership will serve up more of the same??
I think you are totally on the wrong path this time Goldy. Trying to say the (R) leadership is somehow blind partisanship without carefully looking at your own Party is disingenuous. I’m will to admit the (R)’s have plenty of things to improve. I’m also willing to not vote to support weak candidates to send that message. I’m also will to work hard and put my money where my mouth is to make it better. You appear to be willing to accept whatever the (D) leadership tosses out there…
Again, how many (R)’s did you support in this election??
I thought the answer would be zero!!!! Shame on you Goldy!
Clean up your own house before advising the opposition!
Josef–one of the things I admire about you is that you have a clear understanding that blind partisanship is part of the problem in our State.
Comment by Mr. Cynical-dy— 11/27/04 @ 3:14 pm
Thank you, I agree. I have simple counsel for my fellow Dinocrats: You can either STAY hyperactive or let the darn extremist evangelicals on the far right bully Rossi. That said, you’ve also got to be there for Dino and go to the State Dems in the legislature for Rossi-drafted legislation you support (and cc the Rossi Admin). By remaining active, we keep the state blue and Rossi in the center.
The Rossi Administration also realizes this: You t-off the Dinocrats, then you lose any shot at reelection and at getting your agenda through a Democratic State Legislature.
Cynic-la-di-da… you may infer whatever you want from my blog entry, but I was writing specifically about the Republican leadership, and expressing my opinion that “Dinocrats” will be disappointed by their expectation that Rossi is a different kind of politician. He is a conservative Republican, and will ideologically push the conservative Republican agenda as far as the Legislature will let him.
And I didn’t realize you expected me to tell you which Republicans I voted for, since you seemed happy to answer it yourself. When I was younger, I used to quite frequently split my ticket. But the last Republican I voted for was John Carlson… in the primary.
But my straight-ticket voting is not out of blind partisanship, it is out of strategic pragmatism. The unrelenting assault from the right has radicalized me to the point where I can no longer vote based on which candidate might be better qualified, without considering the larger strategic picture. I never rule out voting for a Republican… but you’ve got to give me a damn good reason (like the time Ralph Munroe was running against a bag lady.)
That said, I think Senn was indeed the better candidate for AG. I know it is popular to abuse her, but unlike McKenna, you can be sure that she never sold out to the likes of the BIAW.
Goldy – you are arguing with true believers, who want to pretned their party if comassionate and centrist. C span has had a lot of calls recently from folks who voted for Bush and are now seeing the Right Wing cement its power over America. Have heard it a dozen times on the calls in, “I did not realize that is what they were going to do”, is the disturbed plea over and over.
Get ready for the single party National state, run with Jeanette Hayner like iron claw. Bill Frist by the way who just changed the US Senate in one fell swoop, want to be president. And with E. Dole at his side would be a strong ticket.
Dinocrats, if elected, he will have four years to recast the already right wing state party even more right. All the churches they were leafleting are their new base. You are not. You have been used, and you will be discarded, your continued presence in the mix will make all the far righters very angry. People seem to forget here the Ellen Craswell and Pat Rbbertson and John Carlson Republican party is still very alive in Washington, just pulled some very elastic wool, that is all.
One thing for sure with, with the Dems in control of the Legislature, assured, and all the good healthy dissent out there, it will be veto time if Dino is elected. Another reality in this fair State.
And yes, I helped to nominate Ellen Craswell in the primary. Always voted for Ralph and Joel Prichard when he was L. Gov. See, dems will stray once in a great while.
By the way, lets face it, if good old centrists Ralph Munro or Joel Prichard were currently Republicans in the US Senate, sheer conjecture, Bill Frist would have them tied, gagged, and purged. For sure.
GOLDY-GOLDY-GOLDY
You actually think Deborah Senn was a great candidate?????
Dang–we have a whole lot of work to do to get you shaped up, don’t we?
Read your own words in your last comment carefully. It appears you are exactly what you claim to abhor. It happens when the far Lefties lose…they go nuts and lose the last semblance of sanity that have.
I think on this one Goldy you’ve checkmated yourself. Go ahead and continue to criticize the opposition Party you obviously hate if it makes you feel good. I don’t think it matters much though as far as “converting” folks to your “WING”. You are better off criticizing and fixing your own Party. And you can start by kicking out the flakes like Rudy!!! (Unsolicited advise, I know)
Isn’t amazing how so many folks want to grab that centrist role?? I guess in some ways I respect the folks I flat-out disagree with but at least aren’t afraid to stand up than those who are wishy-washy! Wishy-washy feels good, it’s safe…but is it productive??
I guess we’ll continue to try and label our opponents as far-left or far-right. Maybe that ain’t so bad.?
Let’s get back to the issue at hand- not allowing legislation to pass unless it is supported by a majority of the majority. This is, in fact, the long practice- UNDER BOTH PARTIES- in the Washington State Legislature. It does NOT, however, prevent any minority of the majority from acting- IF THEY CARE ENOUGH.
With frequent 25-24 splits in our State Senate, it became known as the Rule of 13- you needed not just 25 votes to pass a bill, you needed 13 of the majority. That is, unless you invoked the Rule of 3- it usually takes three members of the majority, holding together, to provide sufficient strength to move legislation in conjunction with the minority members. And to succeed with the Rule of 3, you needed both a high-profile issue, and a committed three senators- because it gets UGLY when you break ranks in a high profile situation.
Then there was the Rule of Sheldon, Tim- when Tim is the 25th Senator, the parties alternate control of the Senate floor- unless the Rule of Sheldon, Tim was trumped by the Rule of Winsley.
But the problem is NOT partisan control of the high profile issues- majorities have to hang together to function, and dissidents in the majority often control the agenda by being the swing votes. The problem is that party discipline is invoked ALL TOO OFTEN, on issues that are not definitional of either party.
But one does not rise to leadership without some control freak traits…
Jim King, your comment about “But one does not rise to leadership without some control freak traits…” shows that you don’t have even an elementary understanding of Karl Rove and his tactics. Seriously. Do some research on him. Do you even recognize his name?
Brent-Rudy–
Jim King is absolutely correct. There are leaders & followers. The leaders definitely want to control at various levels…of course they do. It’s becaise they truly believe in a course of action.
Rudy/Brent–every time someone speaks you twist it in such a way that your bitterness spews out.
The sky was cloudy today…Brent/rudy could twist that to knock Chris Vance/Rossi/Josef and Jim all in 1 sentence!!!
Brent:
Brent, Brent… Now it’s Karl Rove. Before Rove were the various “masterminds” behind Clinton, Bush the Elder,… After Rove will come someone else who “masterminds” a president’s election. At least James Carville has Matalin to “somewhat” keep him in line…
And the reality is that the Karl Rove’s of the world do naught but their master’s bidding- and they have none of the enormous influence with which they are so overcredited.
And Karl Rove’s tactics- no more than those of political operatives OF BOTH PARTIES throughout this nation…
Cynic-la-di-da… again, infer what you want, but all I said was that compared to Rob McKenna, I chose Deborah Senn.
In fact, you seem to like to infer a lot from what I write. That’s fine, art is a subjective, indirect form of communication, and I’ve always considered my political activities to be a kind of performance art.
Jim, as usual, writes from the perspective of somebody who is personally familiar with the nitty-gritty governance. I’d just like to add onto his comment about party discipline being invoked too often, and on non-definitional issues, to say that often people who assert authority do so simply because they can.
That said, I it often seems that Republican leaders are more concerned with winning than with governing. (It’s hard to criticize Democratic leaders for the same, because lately they’ve done little of either.)
What is this non-definitional term I see in the recent posts? To me it seems most issues touch lives, many thousands or millions (proposedsales tax hike) or perhaps less, but impact is impact.
In a shortfall period, budgets can be life and death, especially if you job or contract with the state is down the tubes.
I have been amazed over the years how much legislations is passed that is unconstitutional, really silly and stupid, but non-definitional is a new term for me.
Get ready Peter, with The Preppy as governor all hell will break loose in favor of big business and holy rollers. Gone are the days of fairness, welcome the days of extremest right handed views and laws. Be careful, they will probably place webcams in your bedrooms.
Actually–the people that need to beware are the 20 years of entrenched bureaucrats and all their pals who are “at-will” employees. Also, Peter A’s additional concern… that some of the cozy non-productive contracts that have bled this state will be eliminated. Heaven forbid that some State employees might have to get a job in the private sector that they love to obstruct!!!
Folks- there are literally thousands of bills introduced in our Legislature each year. In the battle between, say, dentists and denturists, which is the Republican or Democrat position? Or between general contractors and subcontractors when it comes to lien law? These are “non-definitional”- they are not defining for Rs or Ds, and both parties tend to splinter on many of these issues.
Those of you who pay little-to-no attention to politics and yet have the urge to post your uninformed comments on a political blog will soon be awoken to the stark reality that everyone else on Earth is right and you are wrong. And when that day comes I’ll be pointing and laughing at you as you are all forced to lie in the bed you made.
For the record, does anyone even care at all about what Mr. Cynical-dy says? He’s obviously quite unintelligent, uninformed and obviously extremely mentally ill judging from the fact that he keeps calling me Rudy. Could someone besides the aforementioned psycho please fill me in on who the hell Rudy is? Perhaps then I could begin to understand the nonsensical ramblings of this idiot.
I’ve made my points and he has simply started whining like a spoiled little brat. As it is, he still hasn’t even begun to address the issue of Republicans committing voter fraud by turning the push for a paper trail into a partisan issue and blocking it. He called the statement “ludicrous” but didn’t address any of the issues or even bother to explain why he thinks it’s ludicrous. When I brought this to his attention, he had no way to defend his idiotic ramblings so he didn’t post anything. I know this because he’s been actively posting his uninformed, inarticulate and downright psychotic comments on other threads.
Whenever someone proves Mr. Cynical-dy wrong, he simply resorts to name calling, ignores the issue which was raised, ignores the evidence which was presented and simply reiterates neo-con pundits’ talking points. Perhaps Mr. Cynical-dy should stop watching “Crossfire” and begin the arduous task of informing himself. There is nothing wrong with name calling as long as it is warranted and specific, articulate examples are given to back up the claim. I’ve called him names on a number of occasions now because he has shown that he is unintelligent, inarticulate and a paranoid psychotic who ignores the name on the comment and simply starts calling the person by a random name for no apparent reason. Each time I press an issue, he simply insults me and does not even attempt to refute my comments with news stories or logic or factual evidence. Goldy, is there any way you could ban this psycho’s IP so that those of us who actually want to discuss relevant political issues can do so without having to put up with some retarded 12 year old who uses his daddy’s computer to start flame wars?
Brent–
Rudy disappeared just at the time you appeared. Coincidence?? If so, my apologies. FYI-Rudy identified himself as an Angry Gay Male. Whenever someone disagreed with him or pulled his covers they were labeled a “homophob” or worse. It appears you also suffer in a similiar way. Anyway, you sure have put a lot of energy into your last comment. But what did you say? It appears you are worse than what you claim to abhor!!!!
Brent–do you really want to ban folks that disagree with you?? Is that your best answer?? I’m a CPA with 4 kids & a great wife. I look at the world differently than you do. If you don’t care what I think, fine…ignore me. But with your repeated ramblings with what you call facts have been specifically challenged by myself & others. I’m sure it is uncomfortable…most Leftists are more comfortable sitting around in “self-validation” groups making each other feel good about themselves. I admire you for trying to stretch-out of that comfortable niche. But please re-read your prior comment….you sound like the guy who screams at the top of his lungs with a contorted look on his face ‘I’M NOT ANGRY, @%&*#!&^%$^*&#@*&!!!!!!!
Lordy, do we now have an unknown about to become Governor? There is no “Preppy” in the race- not in this state! I wonder how a half-Italian, one-quarter Irish, one-quarter Tlingit male who worked his way through school gets labelled “The Preppy” (assuming that jim p was referring to Dino). Unless he was referring to Gregoire, but she’s a poor girl from white-trash Auburn. Unless… was Goldy right, has Ruth Bennett taken the lead, and is she really an Eastern trust fund baby who graduated from, say, Wellesly, and her friends call her “Muffy”?
I should like to point out something which I have not yet mentioned and is not obvious from my statements. I am not a Democrat, nor do I like Democrats. I simply abhor neo-conservatives, and they have had a stranglehold on the Republican party for decades now. I don’t vote for Democrats, I vote against Republicans. I abhor neo-conservatives, but am simply infuriated with all other Republicans for not having the sense to realize that their party left them decades ago. Time has shown that progressives can balance a budget, Democrats can balance a budget, fiscal conservatives can balance a budget, but neo-conservatives couldn’t balance a budget to save their worthless lives. They howl about how the federal government needs to stay out of our lives and states should have the right to pass whatever law they want, and then they proceed to pass federal legislation which blocks legislation which has already been passed in some states. They want the federal government to stop telling us what to do unless it’s telling women what they can and can’t do with their own bodies, telling us we can’t pass medicinal marijuana laws, telling us who we can or can’t marry, etc. The belligerent, fascist tactics of Rove and company to suppress dissent not only from the Democratic party but also from the Republican party, are quite obvious to anyone who pays even the slightest attention to politics. I’m not saying this for the benefit of neo-cons. They’re so hopelessly brainwashed that it’s pointless to say anything to them. Those of you who consider yourselves to be Republicans who are not neo-conservatives and those of you who consider yourselves to be moderates or independents severely need to listen to what both Goldy and I have to say regarding the neo-cons. They are a fascist political party. This is not an insult. It is simply a statement of the facts. Please do us all a favor and look up the word fascism in the dictionary and then inform yourself about the neo-con agenda. If real Republicans would stand up to the neo-cons and take back their party, I would barely pay attention to politics because I would know that two equally messed up political parties are battling it out for control of the country, and in that case it doesn’t really matter who wins. The problem is that every time any Republican dissents from the neo-con agenda, they are beaten into submission by the neo-cons. The neo-cons were too belligerent with one of the dissidents in their own party when the senate was sharing power, and as a result he switched from being a Republican to being an independent, which threw control of the house to the Democrats. The Republicans are now in control of both the house and the senate by such a large margin that about six or seven Republicans would have to switch to the Democratic party in order to give Democrats a majority. Make no mistake about it, this has happened not because more people have become neo-cons in recent years. It is entirely because Tom Delay personally got involved in the fascist re-districting measures in Texas, for which he has been officially reprimanded for ethics violations.
Brent, there I disagree with you. The neocons could balance a budget. They simply don’t want to.
See… the majority of Americans support our national social welfare programs (social security, medicare, etc.) But run up a big enough debt, and eventually we will have no choice but to dismantle them. That is surely part of the neocon agenda.
Goldy, you make an excellent point. After having taken that into consideration, I wonder if they are actually able to balance a budget since I have never seen them try. They are not just out of practice, they have never tried to begin with. They would have to learn how to balance a budget. I guess the topic will be open for discussion as long as they refuse to try.
I would not have been so hard on Mr. Cynical-dy if he hadn’t repeatedly called me Rudy after I’d repeatedly told him I don’t even know who the hell Rudy is. If you carefully read what I wrote, I pointed out that there is nothing wrong with name calling as long as you adequately prove your case. For example, what Mr. Cynical-dy has been doing is just simply saying things like “You’re a conspiracy theorist!” and “Your partisan spin is out of control!” without providing anything to support his claims. Each time I’ve called him a name it’s been for a reason which I’ve pointed out. The reason why I’ve called him an idiot whose ramblings sound mentally ill is because he repeatedly called me Rudy even though I repeatedly told him that not only am I not Rudy, but I don’t even know who the hell he’s talking about. It’s sad when name calling starts, but it’s also understandable when someone accuses someone else of doing the same exact thing that they are doing without providing any evidence to support their position. Also, from what he’s said about Rudy, I suppose I can understand why he thought I might be him. He should have asked instead of insisting that I am definitely someone I’m not, even after I had corrected him numerous times. If it weren’t for his ignoring me when I corrected him about my identity, I wouldn’t have laid into him nearly as badly as I did. After the fifth or so message from him saying, “We all know it’s you, Rudy!” I believe it was perfectly acceptable for me to point out his obvious severe mental illness. Aside from that, I know I’ve been quite harsh in general, and the reason why is because I’m extremely pissed off, and since I’m pissed off for political reasons and this is a political blog, I can see how my venting is annoying to most. I’m sorry for that. It’s really hard not to be extremely angry with the current political climate, and if you don’t understand what I mean, you will after four more years of this bullshit, regardless of your political views (unless, of course, they are in perfect lockstep with Karl Rove).
Anyway, from now on I am going to completely ignore any and everything Mr. Cynical-dy has to say, whether or not he speaks to me directly, because it doesn’t matter what he thinks. All of his thoughts appear to be reiterations of neo-con pundits’ talking points anyway, so if I want to hear ramblings such as his, I’ll just turn on Fox News. I’d like to point out that if any reasonable person addresses anything I’ve said I won’t react the way I reacted to Mr. Cynical-dy. The reason I reacted to him in the way in which I did is because he is an inarticulate, uninformed asshole who apparently is so mentally ill that he cannot listen to what anyone says, to the point that he wouldn’t even listen when I told him I don’t even know who Rudy is. So let’s start over. Hi. I’m Brent.
Jim King, the reason Rossi has been called a preppy is because he is from Bellevue and has an extremely stereotypical Bellevue attitude. Also, he is backed by the neo-cons in Washington D.C. and it doesn’t get any preppier (is that even a word?) than having said neo-cons create your commercials for you. Did you happen to see any of them? They have the same exact attitude and feel as Bush’s commercials, which is no surprise considering the fact that they are backing him 100%. There have been mainstream news reports of the White House dispatching its lawyers to back up Rossi, so I’m not exactly sure why you don’t understand why he appears to be preppy to most people who are not neo-cons.
By the way, I can vouch that Brent is not Rudy. At least according to the WordPress IP logging.
OK Goldy…I’ll knock off the insinuation. I’m sure you could see how easily I could have confused the two trolls!