GOP: lack of all vote-by-mail in King County suppresses Democratic vote

If it wasn’t already obvious, this is why our good friend Stefan and many of his fellow Republicans so bitterly oppose King County’s proposed move to all vote-by-mail balloting:

Republican candidate Mike McGavick thinks his chances of unseating Cantwell are enhanced by the fact that Democratic-leaning King, the state’s most populous county, hasn’t yet switched to all-mail ballots. The Cantwell camp agrees that McGavick has a point but says it won’t help him nearly enough.

Voter turnout is generally higher in the 34 counties that now vote solely by mail than in the five counties — King, Pierce, Island, Kittitas and Klickitat — that still use polling places as well as mail ballots.

Secretary of State Sam Reed predicts a statewide voter turnout of 67 percent, a record for an even-year, non-presidential election. But for King County, election officials forecast a turnout of only 59.5 percent, with two-thirds of those voting by mail. Reed expects 88 percent of the votes statewide to be absentees.

“Most of those counties (that vote by mail) are Republican-leaning areas,” Dan Brady, McGavick’s campaign manager, said Wednesday. “To us, it means thousands of votes for Mike because it’s easier for people to vote when (the ballot) is sitting in front of them at home than it is to go to their polling place.”

If as many counties voted by mail in 2004 as are voting by mail this year, “Dino Rossi would probably be governor,” Brady said.

It is about nothing more than naked partisan advantage. Their goal all along has been to delay the implementation of vote-by-mail in King County until at least after the 2008 election, so as to give an advantage to Dino Rossi.

The Washington State Republican Party, having been seized by corporatist and right-wing fundamentalist factions, simply cannot win statewide elections on the issues. That’s why their candidates run these cynical, wishy-washy, issueless, faux-moderate campaigns. And that is why they focus so intently on voter suppression and intimidation.

I mean, I don’t blame them for wanting to suppress voter turnout in their opponent’s strongholds. I blame them for actually acting on their want.


  1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    The country should be run for the benefit of The Producers. The Takers shouldn’t even be allowed to vote. Commentby Mark The Redneck KENNEDY— 11/2/06@ 12:30 pm

    I couldn’t agree more! See #33. Lazy freeloading capitalists who DON’T WORK and live off the sweat of workers shouldn’t be allowed to vote! We should raise their taxes and draft their children to fight the wars they start. Above all, we should imprison their leaders and confiscate their property.

  2. 2

    righton spews:

    danw and co; regarding Richard Pope

    I don’t see his sin/crime. the Bar objects to him…so he’s pissed off a trade group…. you mean you object to people who fight their trade group, union, industry association?

    He has not committed any “crime”….

    Of course you all support teachers who fight their Unions, ?? NOT.

  3. 3

    JDB spews:

    It’s all right Goldy, we all know that Stephan Sharansky is both a liar and an idiot. Hell, he can’t even spell his name right.

  4. 4


    “this is why our good friend Stefan and many of his fellow Republicans so bitterly oppose King County’s proposed move to all vote-by-mail balloting”

    David, I’m never sure whether you’re a liar or an idiot, but you’re misrepresenting my position. I’ve consistently opposed mandatory vote by mail not only in King County but in every county. Always have. Always will.

  5. 6

    sgmmac spews:

    Sam Reed also said that EVERY signature is checked. So, would we believe his predictions since he has lied in the past?

    Oregon has been experiencing lower and lower turnouts in voting.

    All mail voting makes Washington State irrelevant to the national elections. It doesn’t matter what happens in this state when watching the news coverage on election night, because we won’t know who won anything for sometimes weeks. It is also harmful to the campaigns in this state. They go to wild extremes trying to get their message out to voters and playing a guessing game as to who has or hasn’t sent in a ballot.

    We need an earlier primary and early poll voting in the two weeks preceding the election and we need to know on election night who the winners are in our state.

  6. 7

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Stefan is a hack. The only “voting reform” he’s for is more GOP votes and less Democrat votes.

  7. 8

    Labor Goon spews:

    Wait a sec, JC…

    Since when are King County residents ineligible to vote? McGavick’s people clearly said they hope turnout is lower in King County because it isn’t an all-mail county. What does that have to do with eligibility?

    It is plainly apparent to anybody who is paying attention that Republican efforts nationwide to create new voting hurdles/restrictions are not aimed at a phantom problem of ineligible voters, but are simply intended to supress the vote in urban (largely Democratic) areas.

    P.S. Most of the ineligible felons who voted in 2004, and told reporters who they voted for, voted for ROSSI.

  8. 9

    JDB spews:

    At least nine GOP seats have been affected by scandals and are highly vulnerable to Democratic takeover next week. Foley’s abrupt resignation has jeopardized a Florida House district that had been on no one’s radar screen. Under indictment and amid a swirl of ethics investigations, former House majority leader Tom DeLay (Tex.) resigned from Congress earlier this year, forcing Republicans to mount a long-shot write-in campaign for their chosen candidate. Rep. Robert W. Ney’s guilty plea last month on corruption charges still hangs over the Ohio campaign of his would-be Republican successor, Joy Padgett, especially because Ney still has not resigned from Congress.

    The GOP has all but abandoned longtime Rep. Curt Weldon (Pa.), as federal investigators examine charges that he steered lobbying contracts to his daughter. Weldon went on television yesterday with an ad featuring actors pleading, “Would you give a friend the benefit of the doubt? . . . Today, Curt Weldon needs our support.”

    Republican campaign strategists fear they have also lost the seat of Rep. Don Sherwood (Pa.), who has been dogged by the settlement of a lawsuit filed by a mistress who charged that Sherwood had throttled her.

    Congress watchers once saw the swing seat of Rep. Rick Renzi (R-Ariz.) as a missed opportunity for Democrats. But now, as the U.S. attorney’s office in Phoenix examines his role in a land deal for a business partner and political benefactor, Renzi’s race with political neophyte Ellen Simon (D) has tightened.

    Farther west, Rep. Jon Porter (R-Nev.) has had to contend with charges lodged last month by a longtime former aide, Jim Shepard, that the lawmaker made dozens of illegal fundraising calls from his congressional offices. And two reliably Republican districts in California are under assault by Democrats because Reps. Richard W. Pombo and John T. Doolittle have been linked to Abramoff, the lobbyist who pleaded guilty in January to fraud, tax evasion and conspiracy to bribe public officials.

    Beyond those nine jeopardized GOP seats, four other Republicans have been tainted by the Foley page scandal. Rep. Thomas M. Reynolds (N.Y.) chose to issue a public apology after he admitted that he had known about inappropriate contact between Foley and a former page this spring. Democrats have repeatedly hit Rep. Deborah Pryce (Ohio), the House Republican Conference chairman, for inaction on the Foley matter. And Democrats have tried to hold two former members of the Page Board, Reps. Sue W. Kelly (N.Y.) and Heather A. Wilson (N.M.), accountable for Foley’s actions.

    Meanwhile, new allegations continue to spring up. Vern Buchanan, a Republican running for the Florida seat vacated by Rep. Katherine Harris (R), was the target of local media reports this week detailing his use of business entities in Caribbean tax havens to reduce levies on his auto dealerships. The Albany Times Union published an article yesterday charging that the wife of Rep. John E. Sweeney (R-N.Y.) called police late last year to report that her husband was “knocking her around” during a late-night argument.

    And Rep. Christopher Shays (R-Conn.), who made his name pushing campaign finance changes and governance reforms, was confronted with media reports alleging that a 2003 trip to Qatar — partly funded by a group loosely tied to Abramoff — had not been properly disclosed.

    “The corruption issue plays in two ways: It contributes to the sour mood of the country and to the low job approval of Congress, and it particularly plays in races directly touched by allegations of scandal,” said Republican pollster Whit Ayers. “And in those races, it plays a significant role.”

  9. 11

    stedman spews:

    This would have been a great campaign song for
    Darcy Burner:
    Roll With the Changes by
    “REO Speedwagon”
    As soon as you are able
    i am willing
    To make the break that we
    Are on the brink of
    My cup is on the table
    Our love is feeling
    Waiting here for you to
    Take and drink of

    So if you’re tired of the
    Same old story
    Turn some pages
    I’ll be here when you are ready
    To roll with the changes

    I knew it had to happen
    Felt the tables turnin’
    Got me through my darkest hour
    I heard the thunder clappin’
    Felt the desert burnin’
    Until you poured on me
    Like a sweet sunshower

    So if you’re tired of the
    Same old story
    Turn some pages
    I’ll be here when you are ready
    To roll with the changes

  10. 12

    righton spews:


    perhaps its time you repeat why you are infatuated with mail in voting? I don’t get it….my wife and i love to go in person; civic duty, ceremony. AND far less easy to cheat the system… I mean my Alzheimers father can’t go to the polls, but i can vote his mail ballot…

    is that what you want?

  11. 14

    sgmmac spews:


    They won’t wait, the state that puts the “winner” over the top on the amount needed for the electoral college is it. The states that are in “play” are the ones covered in the national media, the ones with reporters waiting with microphones, the ones where the candidates go to campaign, the ones where the money is spent. Washington will remain invisible as long as our results are plagued with not being able to count all the majority of the ballots on election night.

  12. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    So explain to us Redneck why you laugh at a degree in Scandanavian studies. Do you think our country doesn’t need people who understand the Scandanavian countries? We deal with them in a vast array of economic, trade, foreign relations, and military matters. Do you know a fucking thing about history? During World War 2, who occupied Norway? Finland? Where were the Danes and Swedes in all this? During the Cold War, weren’t the Scandanavians right smack in the middle between Russia and the West? Didn’t we deploy our military to defend them? Weren’t they a primary battlefield in the event of a Soviet invasion of Europe? Does somebody in our country need to know what the terrain is, the language, the culture, how you fight a war there, and so on? You are a fucking idiot. If all Republicans are as ignorant as you, no wonder they’ve fucked everything up. Gas prices have tripled. Heating bills have tripled. Electricity has tripled. Katrina. Iraq fiasco. You rightwing Rednecks are a menace to civilized society and ought to be locked up for public safety.

  13. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    You mischaracterize everything I say, but when did I ever mischaracterize what you said? You said, and I quote, that cutting taxes “always” increases revenue. Let’s fact-check, you lying fuck:

    2000 – $1,372,376,000,000 (baseline year)
    2001 – $1,297,063,000,000
    2002 – $1,152,413,000,000
    2003 – $1,069,364,000,000
    2004 – $1,146,664,000,000
    2005 – $1,279,114,000,000 (estimate)

    (from official data)

    Does that look like a revenue increase? You also misrepresented what I said about tax cuts. Here’s what I said:

    A tax rate of 0% produces no revenue. A tax rate of 100% also produces no revenue because it destroys incentives for economic activity. Revenue is maximized at a tax rate somewhere 0% and 100%. If the tax rate is below that point, cutting taxes reduces revenue. If the tax rate is above that point, cutting taxes increases revenue.

    Now how hard is that to understand? Apparently too hard for Redneck to understand. And how hard is it to simply tell the truth about (a) federal revenues 2001-2005 and (b) what I actually said. Too hard for Redneck. One more question. If Redneck is doing so well then why can’t he pay the $100 he owes Goldy? I think Redneck is a broke trailer park looooooser who blows smoke out of his ass.

  14. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Lowlifes like Mark the Welshing Liar denounce and demean people who go into public service and try to make things better for ordinary folks. He thinks this country should be run for the benefit of the rich as a wholly-owned subsidiary of No Estate Tax Associates, NLSRRP,* and fuck everyone else! Fuck him.

    Pay your gambling debt, welsher!!!

    * No Liability or Social Responsibility Republican Partners

  15. 18

    righton spews:

    let me respin what you are saying

    a) you see duplication; that is bad.
    …i) never seen a lib care about gov’t duplication
    …ii) you must then want to merge metro and sound transit?
    …iii) surely you don’t care about the $$,s otherwise you could shutter a couple of wino toilets to pay for continuing the dual systems

    b) you think vote by mail get mores votes (which likely helps dems). But how does mandating it get more than today, when its already offered and as you say, widely (80%) used.

    c) you logic doesn’t smell “good government” but rather as way to benefit dems.

  16. 19


    Righton @59,

    Um… most of your comment is incoherent, but… read the blockquote in my post. The REPUBLICANS openly say that the fact that the rest of the state is vote-by-mail and King County isn’t, benefits Republicans in statewide elections because it results in lower turnout in Democratic King County than elsewhere. That’s what the Republicans say.

    All I’m saying is that we should even the playing field and have all counties vote the same way. Does that benefit Dems over what we have now? Sure. But what we have now tilts turnout towards the R’s.

    Really… why should vote-by-mail be okay for the rest of the state, but not KC?

  17. 20

    Jon Carry spews:

    1 Bottom line…
    Democrats want MORE people, regardless of eligibility to vote.
    Republicans want FEWER ineligible people to vote.

    Let me get this straight – the repubbies dictate voting procedures in KC?

  18. 22

    danw spews:

    This has been a GOP controlled congress for over 12 years, since this time, they have controlled all legislation that comes out. Any great democratic ideas under this congress are not allowed to come out with a Demos name on it. You all say the Democrats don’t have any plans but to raise taxes, and weaken security.
    You all are pumped up on being secure from terrorists, your willing to give up your civil liberties to be secure, but aren’t willing to pay for it. If indeed we are in a “war on terror”
    then you need to willing to give up more then someone elses children. You want security, then you need to pay for it. You don’t continue to give tax cuts in the middle of a war. This is a constant with the sheeple here. I want the government to protect me, but give me my $300 rebate. I don’t care what it costs to stop this, let’s just let our infrastructure go to hell by underfunding it.
    As far as the poor and the middle class owning more homes, and they are doing better. take a look at the percentage of a homeowners combined income as a percentage of their home payment. These people are strapped with over 50% of their income going towards their housing payment. Also these huge jump in jobs created, is because people need more than one of these low paying jobs to make ends meet.
    God forbid a bubble burst, with all the adjustable rate and “0” interest loans out there that people are just getting by dealing with.

    I have a son in the job market right now, college educated, and we run into a lot of college graduates working at the local Kinkos, or in the resturant business. Look in the local papers or online, there are very few jobs out there, if he were to take at that salary, where he would barely be able to pay rent, let alone buy a house. Let’s not forget all the other costs that have gone up while the wages have stayed stagnent. Insurance, healthcare, Gas. It is sick out there for a young person, especially if they have Student loans to deal with.

    Come on folks, you’re the folks of the “good ole days” when mom was home with the kids, and baking cookies and dad would come home and watch the “Donna Reed show”. Well you want it back? you’ll need to take a look at what it takes as far as income for Dad to work alone and make that happen. It ain’t there.

    But here are some Democratic plans that you all just keep repeating they don’t have. And if they don’t win control, they wont be able to get enacted, because that’s how it’s working in washington DC nowadays.

    As in the first 100 hours the House meets after Democrats _ in her fondest wish _ win control in the Nov. 7 midterm elections and Pelosi takes the gavel as the first Madam Speaker in history.

    Day One: Put new rules in place to “break the link between lobbyists and legislation.”

    Day Two: Enact all the recommendations made by the commission that investigated the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

    Time remaining until 100 hours: Raise the minimum wage to $7.25 an hour, maybe in one step. Cut the interest rate on student loans in half. Allow the government to negotiate directly with the pharmaceutical companies for lower drug prices for Medicare patients.

    Broaden the types of stem cell research allowed with federal funds _ “I hope with a veto-proof majority,” she added in an Associated Press interview Thursday.

    All the days after that: “Pay as you go,” meaning no increasing the deficit, whether the issue is middle class tax relief, health care or some other priority.

    To do that, she said, Bush-era tax cuts would have to be rolled back for those above “a certain level.” She mentioned annual incomes of $250,000 or $300,000 a year and higher, and said tax rates for those individuals might revert to those of the Clinton era. Details will have to be worked out, she emphasized.

    “We believe in the marketplace,” Pelosi said of Democrats, then drew a contrast with Republicans. “They have only rewarded wealth, not work.”

    “We must share the benefits of our wealth” beyond the privileged few, she added.

    I know this is long and you all don’t like things that aren’t in 20 second soundbites. So reserve your comments about ” Hey Dan, you need to take a chill pill”
    This country is much more important than 20 second soundbites.

  19. 23

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Scandahoovian studies is fine as a hobby. But it sure as shit isn’t a career as this guy found out. OK… maybe for a half dozen people in State Department, but other than that there’s no market.

    The rest of your post is too incoherent to even respond to. What the fuck is your point? Take yer meds first…

  20. 24

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Leftist 42 – Uh huh… any half wit… let me guess… you never quite got around to it did you?

    Didn’t think so…

    How are things on the loading dock today?

  21. 25

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    I think you better check your utility bills again. Electricity was around 6 cents/kwh 6 years ago and still is today.

    Do you know what a kwh is? Hint: Kinda like a “capacitator”.

  22. 26

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Rabbit – Don’t mischaracterize what I say. I do quite well and I made every fucking penny myself. Here’s how I did it:

    1) Get an education. Never stop going to school. I have a whole alphabet full of letters after my name. And I use them.

    2) Get a good job with a good company.

    3) Show up every day and work your ass off.

    4) Spend less than you make.

    5) Invest the savings wisely.

    That’s it. Nothing complicated.

  23. 30

    danw spews:

    Richard, Richard, Richard,
    You’ve been a bad little monkey.
    Come on, this guy is going to cost us taxpayers thousands in appeals. He is wrong so often, that any attorney has a better than 50/50 chance of getting his appeal heard.
    Please, Judges should have some sort of clue about the law.

    Vote for The Rabbit.

  24. 31

    JDB spews:

    Indictments, investigations and allegations of wrongdoing have helped put at least 15 Republican House seats in jeopardy, enough to swing control to the Democrats on Tuesday even before the larger issues of war, economic unease and President Bush are invoked.

    With just five days left before Election Day, allegations are springing up like brushfires. Four GOP House seats have been tarred by lobbyist Jack Abramoff’s influence-peddling scandal. Five have been adversely affected by then-Rep. Mark Foley’s unseemly contacts with teenage male House pages. The remaining half a dozen or so could turn on controversies including offshore tax dodging, sexual misconduct and shady land deals.

    Not since the House bank check-kiting scandal of the early 1990s have so many seats been affected by scandals, and not since the Abscam bribery cases of the 1970s have the charges been so serious. But this year’s combination of breadth and severity may be unprecedented, suggested Julian E. Zelizer, a congressional historian at Boston University.

  25. 32

    stedman spews:

    re 31: 1- Republicans cut funds for higher education.
    2- Would you consider Ford Or GM to be “good companies”?
    3- Americans work longer and harder than anybody on the
    planet for less and less.
    4- Try that on a Walmart salary.
    5- Americans are going deeper and deeper into debt just
    to stay even.

    It’s all very simple — if you are a simpleton — like MTR.

  26. 33

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Of course, you have to pick a field where there’s a market. When I got my MBA, I met a guy who had undergrad degree in Scandahoovian Studies. I almost laughed when he told me. What fucking use could that possibly be? He said he came to the same conclusion and that’s why he was getting MBA. He had a helluva time with the MBA program because his undergrad degree was so worthless.

    So whoever it is above that says they got kid in school where grads work at Kinkos… pull your head out of your ass. Tell yer kid to get some “marketable skills” while they’re in college.

    Geez, isn’t it fucking obvious?

  27. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “degree in Scandahoovian Studies. I almost laughed”

    Too bad the incompetent Bush administration couldn’t find even one guy in this country with a degree in Iraq studies. If they had, 2,900 dead American kids would still be walking around.

  28. 36

    Thomas Trainwinder spews:

    Bottom line: Democrats want more Democrats to vote. Republicans want more Republicans to vote.

    How do I know…a little thing called GET OUT THE VOTE!

  29. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Before Redneck distorts my comments again (like Republicans distorted Kerry’s comments), I want to clarify that “Pay up or go swimming in cement flippers” is an editorial opinion, not a threat.

  30. 39

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    The country should be run for the benefit of The Producers. The Takers shouldn’t even be allowed to vote. Guys like RR are poster chillens for who only know how to take and shouldn’t get a vote on ANYTHING.

  31. 40

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “I have a son in the job market right now, college educated, and we run into a lot of college graduates working at the local Kinkos … ”

    Mark the Welshing Liar claims all anyone has to do to make a shitload of money is get an education. That’s a crock. What you have to do to make money in this country is own capital. You sure as hell don’t get ahead by working for someone else. And how do people acquire capital? By inheriting it! You sure as hell can’t accumulate capital by working for $15 an hour and paying 35% of it in taxes. Why do inheritors do so well? Because they pay nothing on the first $2.5 million of income, and pay nothing on accumulated capital gains. What a deal! Why the hell should anyone work in this country? There’s no incentive to work. Work is looked down on, is punished by the tax system, and working sure as hell never got anyone into a country club! You have to be like Mike McGavick — go into politics, play dirty, be a lobbyist for a rapacious industry, then run a company and lay off hundreds of workers while fucking over your shareholders, then get paid $28 million to become a U.S. Senator wholly bought for, owned, and directed by millionaires.

  32. 41

    Paddy Mac spews:

    The other reason that our neighbor in Green Lake abhors vote-by-mail comes in one word: Diebold. Electronic voting machines can be easily reprogrammed, esp. when the company won’t make the source code known. A mail ballot always has a paper trail; a voter can keep a copy, thus proofing the ballots against alteration; and, since the ballots must get to the voter weeks ahead of time, there can be no last-minute disenfranchisement, like that which Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris used in their massive keep-out-the-vote effort.

  33. 42

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    You have a moral obligation to pay the $100 you owe Goldy, you lying welshing hypocritical fuck. Pay up or go swimming in cement flippers.

  34. 43

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Democrats want MORE people, regardless of eligibility to vote.
    Republicans want FEWER ineligible people to vote. Commentby Jon Carry— 11/2/06@ 10:40 am


    Whooooo were the dead voters in 2004? Rossi.

    Whooooo were the felon voters in 2004? Rossi.

    Whooooo had fraudulent votes subtracted from his total by a handpicked Republican judge in a handpicked Republican county? Rossi.

    Whooooo did touch screen voting machines in Snohomish county flip votes to? Rossi.

    Whoooooo tried to keep over 100 eligible voters from voting in King County? Sotelo.

    The only cheaters in King County are lying Republicans! You’re blowing smoke out of your ass.

  35. 45

    righton spews:

    a) corpratist or whatever isn’t a word (spelling in the public schools?)
    b) How come Dems want a poll tax on voting? I had to spend $.74 to mail my ballot….last election didn’t send cuz had no stamps .

    voter supression is a Dem tactic

  36. 46

    BigGlen spews:

    sgmmac @8
    There is a hole in your logic. Maybe you can clear it up. Just why is Washington States (or any other state) vote irrelevant to the national elections just because the winners may not be known in time for the eleven o’clock news?
    The winners of the election are not seat in office by the eleven o’clock news and if the news reporters want a story on who won, they can just wait.

  37. 48

    Jim-penis-in-mouth-Webb spews:

    Labor Goon 6 “P.S. Most of the ineligible felons who voted in 2004, and told reporters who they voted for, voted for ROSSI.”

    Did you ask them if they had been rightfully convicted in the first place?

  38. 49

    For the Clueless spews:

    Great post Goldy. Keep speaking out against these right-wing thieves. They are totally bankrupt on the issues that matter to people.

    All they care about is their greed and lust for power.

  39. 50

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Now let’s talk about McGavick’s “victory” bullshit. “Victory” sounds great. Everybody’s for it. Problem is, you can’t buy it in Wal-Mart or wave a magic wand and make it happen.

    Looking back over the last 30 years, no superpower has defeated an insurgency anywhere. We lost in Vietnam, the Russians lost in Afghanistan, we’re losing in Iraq. ICBMs, hydrogen bombs, fleets of bombers and Mach 3 fighters, cruise missiles, Abrams tanks, helicopter gunships, aircraft carriers and attack submarines … all are useless against snipers and IEDs.

    Here’s the situation. Iraq isn’t a country, it’s lines on the map drawn by Europeans for their own convenience around 3 ethnic and cultural groups who hate each other. Saddam kept the lid on because he was a thug. Remove the thug and the lid comes off. Whatever possessed the idiots running the Republican Party and our country to dream they could give these people “democracy” when all they want to do is praise Allah while killing each other? If you guys hate Muslims so much, and want to get rid of them, why not just let them kill each other. Let ‘em do what they want and pretty soon there won’t be any Muslims in Iraq. Or in the whole Middle East, if you let the Muslims in Iran, Syria, and the Arab countries do what THEY want … kill each other. Now if you knew a damn thing about that part of the world, you’d know they like each other even less than they like us. So why the fuck are WE trying to police THEIR neighborhood?

    Give me a break, McGavick! Who are you kidding? What “victory” are you trying to achieve in Iraq? Eliminate Saddam’s WMDs? He didn’t have any, so why are we still there. Eliminate Saddam? He’s gone, so why are we still there. Instigate democracy? Who are you kidding, here’s how democracy works in Iraq. An Iraqi goes to his mosque and asks the imam who he’s supposed to vote for, and the imam says “Allah wants you to vote for me,” so guess who the Iraqi votes for. And just wait until the Americans are gone, the first thing they’ll do is put women back in their place — out of the voting booth and into burkhas. That’s how “democracy” works in a feudal-tribal-13th century society like Iraq. And this is what you’re sending other people’s children to die for?

    Mike?! McGavick … he’s the problem, not the solution.

  40. 51

    proud leftist spews:

    Redneck @ 40
    Ah, you’ve lightened this gray day for me. Mark the Redneck having something to say about morality–that’s just precious. Your MBA (which any half-wit can obtain) doesn’t give you any credibility to talk about morality. “Business ethics” is, of course, an oxymoron. Admit it, Mark, you don’t give a shit about anyone aside from yourself, and your ethical code is limited to one precept: get all you can for yourself by any means possible and fuck everyone else. Please share some more of your thoughts on morality, dipshit. I can use the entertainment.

  41. 52

    JCH [Pennsylvania] spews:


    You wouldn’t know this, but in the Navy we’d say “5 and a wake up.”

    That’s how long you have on HA blog after the Dems clean house in congress.


    Commentby GBS […….GBS, You are soooooo short on HA.ORG you can’t see over a dime. Soon you will be nothing but a dumb ass, liberal, socialist Democrat memory.]

  42. 53

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    What is the biggest problem facing our troops?

    [ ] 1. John Kerry’s botched joke about Dubya.
    [ ] 2. Incompetent civilian leadership that got our troops stuck in a losing war that didn’t have to be fought without adequate vehicle or body armor and no exit strategy.

  43. 54

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    If you’re a consumer, do you want to be represented in the U.S. Senate by an insurance industry CEO who’s paid $28 million a yera to raise your rates and deny your claims.

    If you’re a waitress, do you want to be represented in the U.S. Senate by a businessman who thinks employers should be allowed to pay tipped employees $2.13 an hour.

    If you’re a retiree, do you want to be represented in the U.S. Senate by a multimillionaire who thinks $2 trillion should be diverted from Social Security benefits to private accounts.

    If you’re against the Iraq war and torture, do you want to be represented in the U.S. Senate by a guy who didn’t go to Vietnam or send his kids to Iraq but wants a policy of “victory” in a war our lying Republican leadership started and has already lost.

    Mike?! McGavick is the problem, not the solution.

  44. 55


    Righton @65,

    I would like to vote in person too. In fact, I’d like to use those big, old mechanical machines, where you pull that big crank at the end and feel your vote grinding into place.

    But you can’t always get what you want.

  45. 56

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    I have a moral obligation to protect the next generation from the evils of librulism. It would be a violation of moral principles to give money to someone who is so morally bankrupt that she can’t even tell the fucking truth about minimum wage but thinks it’s OK to give taxpayer money to her fuck buddy.

  46. 57

    eponymous coward spews:

    The funny part is that even in spite of that, the Rs will get creamed to a pulp once again in a statewide election.

  47. 58

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    The Diebold electronic machines used by King County for AVU voting print a paper trail. I don’t trust ‘em anyway.

  48. 59

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    5 more days and you’ll be living in the People’s Republic of America.



  49. 60

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    What this country needs is more labor unions and higher inheritance taxes! Why should some people start out in life with unfair advantages over others? Why not level the playing field so everyone has an equal chance. Then let the best person win. Why are cheap labor conservatives so afraid of honest competition? Probably because they’re stupid, lazy, and don’t want to work.

  50. 61

    Joe Libertarian spews:

    All mail balotting without an ID verification is about as open to corruption as it can get. It will bite both democrats and republicans and make people lose confidence in elections. Unless you are subscribing to the Democrat voting mantra “vote and vote often”

  51. 62

    righton spews:

    Technology got better on the in-person machines, thus the big lunkers are mostly history, replaced by punch tabs, electronic.

    That has nothing to do with usin mail; we’ve always had mail voting, and we’ve had no revolution in the processing of mail that might suggest we go all mail…its largely both scan and hand count, just like 30 years ago.

  52. 63

    AD spews:

    “Washington State Republican Party”

    Since when are there republicans in Washington (or, at the very least, King County)?

    In fact, why haven’t we renamed King County to The People’s Republic of Washington? Surely all my left-leaning friends agree that it’s a more fitting name for us.

  53. 65

    danw spews:

    Wrong on.

    There are places you can drop off your ballot on election day.
    and what is the real poll tax? With the cost of gas in your Hummer, it cost more now to go to the polls, then mailing in your ballot.

    Next stupid thought please, we wait for the O’reilyized to post.

    Do you guys ever have ANY good ideas for the country?

  54. 66

    righton spews:

    HOw come i can’t vote for free? Heck, even posting on this low rent blog is free….

    You disenfranchise those w/ out $$. Say fixed income pensioneers, low income folks, etc.

  55. 67


    righton @55,

    If you actually read my posts you’d know that I don’t like vote-by-mail, and have never voted by mail in my life. I love going to the polls, and will remain a devout poll voter until the very last day.

    But I’m also a realist, and I understand that when 80 percent of voters are casting ballots by mail, it makes no sense to maintain two separate voting systems. I also understand that vote-by-mail increases turn-out, and if King County stubbornly refuses to go vote-by-mail while the rest of the state does, our interests will be under-represented.

    So reluctantly, I support vote-by-mail.

  56. 68

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Here’s what this is really all about.

    Maybe you don’t believe that cheap-labor conservatives like unemployment, poverty and “cheap labor”. Consider these facts.

    “When you cut right through it, right-wing ideology is just ‘dime-store economics’ – intended to dress their ideology up and make it look respectable. You don’t really need to know much about economics to understand it. They certainly don’t. It all gets down to two simple words. ‘Cheap labor’. That’s their whole philosophy in a nutshell … it’s exactly what they are.

    “You see, … the larger the labor supply, the cheaper it is. The more desperately you need a job, the cheaper you’ll work, and the more power those ‘corporate lords’ have over you. If you are a wealthy elite – or a ‘wannabe’ like most dittoheads – your wealth, power and privilege is enhanced by a labor pool, forced to work cheap. …

    “Let’s apply this principle, and see how many right-wing positions become instantly understandable. Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like social spending or our ‘safety net’. Why. Because when you’re unemployed and desperate, corporations can pay you … next to nothing. You see, they want you ‘over a barrel’…

    “Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like the minimum wage, or other improvements in wages and working conditions. Why. These reforms undo all of their efforts to keep you ‘over a barrel’.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives like ‘free trade’, NAFTA, GATT, etc. Why. Because there is a huge supply of desperately poor people in the third world, who are ‘over a barrel’, and will work cheap.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives oppose a woman’s right to choose. Why. Unwanted children are an economic burden that put poor women ‘over a barrel’, forcing them to work cheap.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives don’t like unions. Why. Because when labor ‘sticks together’, wages go up. …

    “Cheap-labor conservatives constantly bray about ‘morality’, ‘virtue’, ‘respect for authority’, ‘hard work’ and other ‘values’. Why. So they can blame your being ‘over a barrel’ on your own ‘immorality’, lack of ‘values’ and ‘poor choices’.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives encourage racism, misogyny, homophobia and other forms of bigotry. Why? Bigotry among wage earners distracts them, and keeps them from recognizing their common interests as wage earners.

    “Unemployment was 23 percent when FDR took office in 1933. It dropped to 2.5 percent by time the next Republican was in the White House in 1953. It climbed back to 6.5 percent by the end of the Eisenhower administration. It dropped to 3.5 percent by the time LBJ left office. It climbed over 5 percent shortly after Nixon took office, and stayed there for 27 years, until Clinton brought it down to 4.5 percent early in his second term. …

    “These facts provide a nice background to evaluate cheap-labor conservative claims like ‘liberals are destroying America.’ In fact, cheap-labor conservatives have howled with outrage and indignation against New Deal liberalism from its inception in the 1930’s all the way to the present. You can … find a cheap-labor conservative comparing New Deal Liberalism to ‘Stalinism’.
    Cheap-labor conservatives opposed … every improvement in wages and working conditions.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives have a long and sorry history of opposing virtually every advancement in this country’s development going right back to the American revolution.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives have hated Social Security and Medicare since their inception.

    “Many cheap-labor conservatives are hostile to public education. … But why are we surprised. Cheap-labor conservatives opposed universal public education in its early days. …

    “Cheap-labor conservatives hate the progressive income tax like the devil hates holy water.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives like budget deficits and a huge national debt for two reasons. A bankrupt government has a harder time doing any ‘social spending’ – which cheap-labor conservatives oppose, and

    “Wealthy cheap-labor conservatives … buy the bonds and then earn tax free interest on the money they lend the government… The deficit created by cheap-labor conservatives while they posture as being ‘fiscally conservative’ – may count as the biggest con job in American history.

    “‘Free Trade’, globalization, NAFTA and especially GATT are intended to create a world-wide ‘corporate playground’ where national governments serve the interests of corporations – which means ‘cheap labor’.

    “The ugly truth is that cheap-labor conservatives just don’t like working people. They don’t like ‘bottom up’ prosperity, and the reason for it is very simple. … Remember, cheap-labor conservatives believe in social hierarchy and privilege, so the only prosperity they want is limited to them. They want to see absolutely nothing that benefits the guy – or more often the woman – who works for an hourly wage. …

    “See how easy it is to understand these cheap-labor conservatives. The more ignorant and destitute people there are – desperate for any job they can get – the cheaper the cheap-labor conservatives can get them to work. …

    “Every time you respond to a cheap-labor conservative … look for the ‘cheap labor’ angle. Trust me, you’ll find it. …

    “Now if you stop right here, you will have enough ammunition to hold your own with a cheap-labor conservative, in any public debate. … But if you really want to rip the heart out of cheap-labor conservative ideology …

    “’Less Government’ is the central defining right-wing slogan. And yes, it’s all about ‘cheap labor’. Included within the slogan ‘less government’ is the whole conservative set of assumptions about the nature of the ‘free market’ and government’s role in that market.

    “In fact, the whole ‘public sector/private sector’ distinction is an invention of the cheap-labor conservatives. They say that the ‘private sector’ exists outside and independently of the ‘public sector’. The public sector, according to cheap-labor ideology, can only ‘interfere’ with the ‘private sector’, and that such ‘interference’ is ‘inefficient’ and ‘unprincipled’.

    “Using this ideology, the cheap-labor ideologue paints himself as a defender of ‘freedom’ against ‘big government tyranny’. In fact, the whole idea that the ‘private sector’ is independent of the public sector is totally bogus. In fact, ‘the market’ is created by public laws, public institutions and public infrastructure.

    “But the cheap-labor conservative isn’t really interested in ‘freedom’. What the he wants is the ‘privatized tyranny’ of industrial serfdom, the main characteristic of which is – you guessed it – ‘cheap labor’.

    “For proof, you need only look at exactly what constitutes ‘big government tyranny’ and what doesn’t … cheap-labor conservatives are BIG supporters of the most oppressive and heavy handed actions the government takes.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives are consistent supporters of the generous use of capital punishment. They … exhibit … unconcern for the … possibility that the government might … execute the wrong man.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives complain about … ‘handcuffing the police’ and giving ‘rights to criminals’. It never occurs to them, that our criminal justice system is set up to protect innocent citizens from abuses or just plain mistakes by government officials ….

    “Cheap-labor conservatives support the ‘get tough’ and ‘lock ‘em up’ approach to virtually every social problem in the spectrum. In fact, it’s the only approach they support. …

    “Cheap-labor conservative – you know, the ones who believe in ‘freedom’ – say our crime problem is because … we’re too ‘permissive’. How exactly do you set up a ‘free’ society that isn’t ‘permissive’?

    “Cheap-labor conservatives want all the military force we can stand to pay for and never saw a weapons system they didn’t like. (They) support every right-wing authoritarian hoodlum in the third world. (They) support foreign assassinations, covert intervention in foreign countries, and every other ‘black bag’ operation the CIA can dream up, even against constitutional governments elected by the people of those countries.

    “Cheap-labor conservatives support ‘domestic surveillance’ against ‘subversives’ – where ‘subversive’ means ‘everybody but them’. Cheap-labor believers in ‘freedom’ think it’s the government’s business if you smoke a joint or sleep with somebody of your own gender. Cheap-labor conservatives support our new concentration camp down at Guantanamo Bay. They also support these ‘secret tribunals’ with ‘secret evidence’ and … no judicial review of the trials and sentences. Then they say that liberals are ‘Stalinists’.

    “And let’s not forget … cheap-labor conservatives want to ‘protect our national symbol’ from ‘desecration’. They also support legislation to make the Pledge of Allegiance required by law. Of course, it is they who desecrate the flag every time they wave it to support their cheap-labor agenda. …

    “Cheap-labor conservatives have a peculiar definition of ‘freedom’. I mean, just what do these guys consider to be ‘tyranny’. … Take a look.

    “’Social spending’ otherwise known as ‘redistribution’. While they don’t mind tax dollars being used for killing people, using their taxes to feed people is ‘stealing’. Minimum wage laws. Every piece of legislation ever proposed to improve working conditions, including the eight hour day, OSHA regulations, and even Child Labor laws. Labor unions, who ‘extort’ employers by collectively bargaining. Environmental regulations and the EPA.
    Federal support and federal standards for public education. …
    Civil rights legislation … federal laws ending segregation were ‘tyranny’, but segregation itself was not.

    “Public broadcasting – which is virtually the only source for classical music, opera, traditional theatre, traditional American music, oh yes, and Buckley’s ‘Firing Line’. This from the people constantly braying about the decay of ‘the culture’. The average cost of Public Television for each American is a whopping one dollar a year. …

    “See the pattern? Cheap-labor conservatives support every coercive and oppressive function of government, but call it ‘tyranny’ if government does something for you … Even here, cheap-labor conservatives are complete hypocrites. Consider the following expenditures:

    “150 billion dollars a year for corporate subsidies.

    “300 billion dollars a year for interest payments on the national debt – payments that are a direct transfer to wealthy bond holders, and buy us absolutely nothing.

    ” … billions … to American companies to rebuild Iraq …

    ” … the Defense budget – large chunks of which go to corporate defense contractors.

    “Is the pattern becoming clearer? These cheap-labor Republicans have no problem at all opening the public purse for corporate interests. It’s ‘social spending’ on people who actually need assistance that they just ‘can’t tolerate’. And now you know why. Destitute people work cheaper, while a harsh police state keeps them suitably terrorized.