GOP fights to count already counted ballots

According to KING5 News, Grays Harbor, Kittitas and Lewis counties have already rejected state GOP requests to reconsider rejected ballots, while the Clark County canvassing board is currently meeting to review the issue. Considering how sloppy the R’s have been in researching these “rejected” ballots, it’s no wonder even all-Republican canvassing boards aren’t taking the request seriously:

The GOP had submitted nine affidavits from voters in Lewis County, who said their votes hadn’t been counted. But late Tuesday morning, Lewis County rejected the Republican request to review those ballots.

The canvassing board determined that five of those nine votes had been counted already. The board voted two to one to refuse to reconsider the other four because it would be expanding the parameters of a recount.

Let’s see now, that’s five of nine “rejected” ballots have already been counted… for a 56 percent error rate. Maybe Stefan will correct me if I’m wrong, but if Chris Vance had been running elections in King County, we can confidently predict that Dino Rossi would have won by approximately 500,000 votes.

The R’s are just going through the motions on this one folks. It’s on to the formal contest.

UPDATE:
The AP reports that the Clark County canvassing board has unanimously decided not consider 24 affidavits brought forth by the GOP. No word yet on how many of these were actually from people whose votes weren’t counted.

Also in the news, Christine Gregoire’s lead has dropped to 129, after the Secretary of State’s web site backed out one vote that Thurston County had attempted to add after it had officially certified its results. This is consistent with the SOS guidance that says counties can’t reopen the results once they certify.

Comments

  1. 1

    Jim King spews:

    Well, sometimes you have to go through the motions… AARRGGHH!!!

    Anyway, I can understand not getting access to the records in King County to doublecheck your stuff, big county still getting its act together, and so on- but not having vetted the info in Lewis County?

    Well, I’ve expressed my opinion about the quality of work being done by this Keystone Kops crowd before…

  2. 2

    jcricket spews:

    It’s just as we suspected. The Republicans have no proof of anything they accuse the Dems or KC of doing. Even the so-called affidavits turn out to be worth less than the paper they’re transcribed on. Fishing expidition and formal contest is Rossi’s only hope, and is fading fast…

  3. 3

    bby spews:

    REPOST FROM OTHER THREAD-

    NEWS UPDATE – The R’s turned down in Grays Harbor, Lewis and Kittitas. Clark co. considering this pm.

    When will they learn? According to KOMO TV, sent 9 ballots to Lewis – AND- can you believe how sloppy this is, five had already been counted !!!! Really sloppy!!! Lewis co. rejected the other four……the old white guy Republicans. Impeachment possible?

    Can’t they use the phone well? Some genetic thing I guess- Like Rummy can’t pick up the phone and make it clear you need armored Humvees NOW with the War Powers Act as your authority—-sorry, spinning here.

    But last week they went to Thruston with 13 ballots, and three had already been counted. God, what sloppy work…..need to hire Motomooooo as field director.

    FLASH, reported Chris Vance is running again for GOP “leader”….what a toad, who begs to be goaded.

  4. 4

    Jim King spews:

    jcricket- keep your eye on the altered ballot…

    And we have until January 20 to see what they do…

    Should keep the Matrices busy for at least three more weeks…

  5. 5

    jcricket spews:

    Yes, Jim, I’m glad the Republicans have a new “hypothesis” to latch onto. Wouldn’t want them to be bored during the next three weeks while we wait for Gregoire to be sworn in.

    I guess I’ve got “Republican hypothesis fatigue syndrome”. It gives me a headache to consider all the pseudo-science and pseudo-legal blather behind each new theory that supposedly proves, “beyond a shadow of doubt”, that the Democrats and KC were up to something… until it doesn’t prove that, and fades away never to be mentioned publicly again.

    So I will look forward to seeing this hypothesis about the altered ballots suffer the same fate :)

  6. 6

    Jim King spews:

    Anyway, elsewhere in the Matrices , some truly believe that a certain number of Democrats vote twice, and since Republicans are so very honest that all of them only vote once, it is necessary to count some Republican ballots twice in order to even things out…

  7. 9

    bby spews:

    This is a a very benign request- no sarcasm, hidden motive, partisian delight, no weird world view, no sex ladden inuendo, wholesome clean language, good spekking, just – Honest , please, Teachers tell me…

    Why would anyone you have ever known would vote twice? In this State……have had three friends witn major junkie problems, they would steal your shoes if they could get 5.00 on the street….so I have sadly learned about the hard core-cash quick- dirty stuff.

    But voting twice….why would you bother? Isn’t the real problem getting more people to vote once?

  8. 10

    Jim King spews:

    Karen- I believe in poking fun at fools of whatever persuasion- but some of these people are just too easy. But figure I’ll get ‘em before Goldy does…

    Anyway, my Magic 8 Ball says it will rain for the first 23 days of 2005, to bring the Snark’s climate into balance- he needs to use the Babylonian calendat to make this work (or is it Babble Balognian?)…

    By the way- Goldy, can you get the Falcons to play THEIR second team this week?

  9. 11

    Jim King spews:

    bby- the only people I have known to vote twice are college students, voting at home and at campus- a lark, something they can get away with… I’ve known it to happen in the ’70’s and the ’80’s, have no doubt it happened this year… And I’m not going to worry about it… :)

  10. 12

    bby spews:

    Remmeber – Skamania is still there. Perhaps the big story will be the layers of Dem. fraud in Skamania County…..need to follow this carefully…there HAS to be a face card somewhere in their deck….so far, NOTHING. Isn’t this embarrasing for someone in the R High Command Center?

  11. 13

    Goldy spews:

    By the way- Goldy, can you get the Falcons to play THEIR second team this week?

    Yes I can. Vick will sit.

  12. 14

    Jim King spews:

    Thank you Goldy- now, onto the big fight- the Doctors have just filed over 300,000 signatures for I-330; the lawyers are bringing in more for I-336; showdown looming as Legislature takes a dive and BOTH initiatives advance to the fall ballot…

    And, with the biggest initiative action in years- NO TIM EYMAN!!!

    It’s the World Series, the Super Bowl- take your pick- and Eyman didn’t even make the play-offs.

    Oh, hapy, happy, joy, joy…

  13. 15

    jcricket spews:

    I say Patriots win the Super Bowl again. Boston’s on a roll. Or maybe the Steelers. Either one’s fine by me. Philly (my old stomping ground) loses in the 1st round of the playoffs.,

    Sorry Goldy :(

  14. 16

    chuck spews:

    But last week they went to Thruston with 13 ballots, and three had already been counted. God, what sloppy work…..need to hire Motomooooo as field director>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Not hard to believe at all, considering I called Pierce County Elections twice and was told both times that my sons vote wasnt counted, then Goldy called them and someone told him that it had in fact been counted…it would seem the elections departments are full of incompetence lately, a recipe for a misscount I would think. Dont really even know whether to believe them or not…

  15. 18

    Jim Hill spews:

    From the musical “The Sound of Counting”, With apologies to Rodgers and Hammerstein:

    White-out on ballots and fully filled ovals;
    Canvassing boards without any darn troubles;
    Provisional voters all signed up and inked;
    These are a few of my favorite things.

    Manual recounts and getting the cash back;
    Forty-two votes down- until my great comeback;
    No proof of fraud, and there’s no rat to “sing”;
    These are a few of my favorite things.

    Blustering ‘ponents with no leg to stand on;
    Having Sam Reed in my corner when it’s done;
    Watching Republicans misfire their “zings”;
    These are a few of my favorite things.

    When the Vance gripes,
    When the Lane springs,
    When I’m being shoved,
    I simply remember my favorite things,
    And then I know I’m the Gov

  16. 19

    John Slyfield spews:

    The Secretary of State has sent a message to the counties: Your totals are final.

    According to the recount website, Chris Gregoire now holds a 129 vote lead over Dino Rossi. Thurston County’s added vote got rejected by Sam Reed, and their original certification stands. The same goes for the 38 counties.

  17. 20

    Rudy spews:

    Loser by 29 votes, but for a loser Rossi’s in pretty good position. Plane and cars are going away, but hot on the trail of only 130 snafus, and it looks like King County muffed it on ballot enhancement despite crystal clear regs. Easily generating debate-framing headlines, with not much competition coming from the other side. And licking chops for Gregoire to release a state budget proposal that either raises taxes or alienates her base. Contest will magnify the warts…King County may just pull him through yet! It’s doing such a good job at that, what’s the payoff??

  18. 21

    Janet S spews:

    Snohomish Cty has admitted they don’t track the final outcome of a ballot. If this is the same standard that other counties are using, it doesn’t surprise me that Lewis County is now deciding that five of the nine ballots in question have been counted. If they guessed upon first and second request, why not keep guessing now? What proof have they offered that in fact the ballots were counted?

    It is fun to read the comments here that pretend to be analysis. I think most of you need some basic math and statistics education. But why bother? Name calling and gloating is a lot more entertaining than actually questioning a system that has proven to be less than robust.

  19. 22

    Rudy spews:

    Janet S, first off you’re deriding a site that has more informed analysis and arguments from different sides than anything else I for one have seen out there. If you can’t find posts here that question the system, you’re simply not reading. Unlike some other sites, though, many posters here recognize that the system has been both robust and shown some problems – and don’t necessarily take a lack of systematic perfection as proof of conspiracies and illegitimacy. Second, what is your point about Snohomish and Lewis counties? You’re not being called a name here, just being asked to provide information that you apparently assume others know about, and explain its relevance. It isn’t at all clear to me why Lewis County would have to prove anything – they’ve counted votes three times and are not only under no obligation to prove anything about particular ballots, but the SOS has apparently told all counties they shouldn’t open up these issues at this point anyway.

  20. 23

    Janet S spews:

    The story for this thread shows open derision to the GOP for presenting 9 ballots that were not counted. Either the GOP is totally incompetent and can’t pick up a phone, or all of those people were told their votes were not counted when originally contacted. I know which I think is true. I don’t care if the boards are R’s or D’s – they have gotten complacent and lazy.

  21. 24

    Goldy spews:

    Janet… so what you’re suggesting is that the Lewis County canvassing board, controlled by Republicans, lied when they said 5 of the 9 votes have already been counted. Thanks for adding such hard evidence to the debate here.

    Dismiss us all you want, but one thing you won’t find here is people calling you a troll and telling you to go away. (Well… okay, I’ve seen something like that happen once or twice, but as the moderator I try to discourage it.) Believe it or not, you’ll actually find quite a bit of information and analysis from both sides of the debate. For example, while Sound Politics is trying to put forth the unsupportable premise that “of course… most fraudulent votes are from Democrats”, we’ve actually been debating Foulkes v Hays, and what type of implications it might have on issues raised by “enhanced” ballots.

    But then, that probably just comes across as a bitter name-calling, huh?

    Oh… and what’s the use of being openly partisan, if we can’t also be openly derisive when the other side screws up? Lighten up.

  22. 25

    Janet S spews:

    I’m not saying anyone lied, or there is fraud. I do claim incompetence in King County. If there were controls in place, there wouldn’t have been 8-9 episodes of “found” ballots. They would have been accounted for in the first place. Dean Logan admits that they knew the last batch had problems that were solvable, but were set aside instead. This is a system that needs fixing.

    The enhancement thing has bugged me since it was first reported. If state regs say it is okay, someone needs to re-write the regs. Once this kind of tampering is officially sanctioned, faith in the system will be hopelessly undermined.

    As for name calling-it is silly and unpersuasive, not a terminal fault. If I didn’t find the site entertaining (and informative), I wouldn’t be here!

  23. 26

    Rudy spews:

    Janet, you criticize posters at this site for name calling, then just dismiss canvassing boards as complacent and lazy. Come on. Razor-thin election with big stakes, constant pressure from public, parties and media, and they’re just complacent and lazy? R’s or D’s, they’re most likely working hard to do the best they can under difficult circumstances, both for the public and their own behinds.

  24. 27

    bby spews:

    Janet – you ask our opinions – then insult our IQ’s – go back to charm school or join the other blog folk where they are all roused about the homeless who register and then don’t vote… non-voters to them are as suspicous as voters, all depending where the vote or non vote resides……since the evil vortex is evil Democratic Srongbox Seatle…..

    Let’s start at the beginning. We use a SECRET ballot system. So there is NEVER a direct reference to individualk ballots except in rare cases, the contested, then codes are used.

    Records are kept by precincts. You sing in person on day of voting for ONE- reg. ballot as you are all properly registered. Vote, and in the secret ballot box.- Or, TWO, there is some problem and you are issued a provisional which requires you sign in and the ballot is sealed, and bundled for further processing as a provisional ballot. THREE are the mail/absentee ballots. Still tracked by precinct, records show the request for same, if sent and if returned.

    Both provisional and asentee require more processing from election day, match signatures, check for good registration- all OK, counted…..and so forth.

    In the end it is all reconciled by precint total of ballots mailed plus total walked in plus those received via provisionals……

    Actually a fairly intricate process, but easily set into iron clad systems by the anal retentives in the world who are so pleased to arrange and perfect that sort of thing.

    King County seemingly lack a strong bunch of anal retentives to hire from. Big deficit. Super- good at perfection- bookkeeper types who will work for 14.00 per hour may be hard to find…..that is the core of their mistakes and a managemnt that is totally unforgiving for process errors and not doing it exactly by the book EVERY time. That is a large management problem- Mr Logans’s a nice guy, suggest he needs a snarl in his voice for that dept.

    Janet- tell Rossi to concede. It is over.

    And I would sugest Democrcy is very robust n Washngton State, the common old ballots worked to the max three times. —but Ah, the mistakes, well, most found and corrected. Now some reforms in order, you bet.

    Since this is the FIRST time in our state’s history that this has EVER been done- FULL manual recount of total state—well I wonder where all the moaning and pissing R wing nutwings think we were to learn from?

    My Granny Karlsson called it – “school of hard knocks”- and she swore it worked. I belive she was correct as most Grannies are.

    She was hard core in many ways, smoked Camels from a pack tucked in her bra, and rode a tractor, but was as refined and gentil as any person I have ever known, an Arkansas girl. Another tale.

  25. 28

    Chuck spews:

    Janet… so what you’re suggesting is that the Lewis County canvassing board, controlled by Republicans, lied when they said 5 of the 9 votes have already been counted. Thatnks for adding such hard evidence to the debate here.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Goldy, at this point, I am no longer sure of anything, I get one answer you get another answer from these elections people, so I am at the point of saying that full disclosure is needed at this point. Nothing the elections board does should be beyond public scrutiny (exept a persons particular ballot). I want the elections departments to tell their constituents how they came to the conclusion as to whether a persons vote was counted or not. It needs done even if it throws the whole election in the crapper. That way you can rest assured we will see some real election reform and not just window stuffing. It took 695 to make them understand car tabs were too high, the polititions gave a little chuckle as they agreed that they were too high and did nothing, well lets see if the court will throw out an election and they still do nothing…if Sam Reed gets in the way he can go looking for a job as well.

  26. 29

    jcricket spews:

    Janet – I understand you think the election system needs reform. Most people here agree. However, what we don’t support are assertions that this election is tainted or that the Dems “stole” anything. Goldy has pointed out from the very beginning that elections will always have some margin of vote counting error, and that changing results is not a sign of fraud or malfeasance.

    All along the way we’ve had to fight the Republicans when Gregoire exercises her legal rights. The Dems raise enough money to pay for a hand-recount, as allowed by state law, and the Republicans went ape-sh*t. Suddenly we’re trying to steal the election. Suddenly every flaw in the election system is the fault of the Democrats. Suddenly KC is the Ukraine. Over on Sound Politics, people keep poring over any piece of statistics that prove the “theory of the day” showing that Dems or KC are committing fraud. None of those theories ever stand up, but no matter, they keep throwing the accusations our way.

    And every time the Republicans tried to float a new idea, we either ignore it (because it’s a crazy conspiracy) or shoot it down by calling their evidence into question. Like when the Supreme Court points out that the Republicans presented no evidence to support their allegations of ballot insecurity in KC. Yet Republicans on the comment board here still try to say that the evidence “will be found” or “we’ll see in due time”. Or when a significant portion of the affidavits from Republican voters that Republicans tout as a smoking gun turn out to be ballots that have already been counted, you don’t see anyone admitting they were wrong, or an apology for accusing the Republican county auditors into question. Instead they just move on to another argument.

    Yes, it’s possible that the Republicans are totally incompetent. It’s also possible these people were told their votes weren’t counted. But that’s not some sign of conspiracy or Democrats tainting the election, especially considering the counties where almost all the election workers are Republicans. Just because the system isn’t flawless, doesn’t mean Christine isn’t the legally elected governor of this state.

    So, to be fair, that’s where the jaded responses and “open derision” for Republicans come from. Goldy’s right – some of us here actually like the back and forth of real debate. I spent 30 or 40 posts debating Chuck on tax subsidies and the relative “business-friendliness” of WA state. Jim King regularly posts non-partisan analysis, even if he leans GOP. But you gotta wade through a lot of BS to find those diamonds.

  27. 30

    jcricket spews:

    And how come every Republican poster here calls for throwing out elections when a Democrat has won, but no one wants a recount in Ohio, even when the candidates admit it’s just to highlight the need for election reform (and make sure every valid vote gets counted).

    These problems in the voting system existed before this election, and have even been worse in the past (before the lever-system we used to be especially prone to the ballot-box-stuffing problem that Snark is claiming is now an issue).

    In general, elections aren’t close enough for these small problems to change the outcome. And while we all want a perfect system, there’s no way we’ll ever get 100% there.

    Sure, I support improving the electoral system, but not a whole new election. You may not believe it, but I’d say the same thing if Rossi had won by 10 votes after a hand-recount. I’d argue that election reform was necessary to improve our faith in the system in close elections, but unlike some, I have no belief that we’ll ever get perfect.

  28. 31

    Chuck spews:

    If it doesnt stop here there will be no reform. It will be a window dressing issue. It is like 695, you need to use a sledge hammer to get results, throw out the election ant get everyones attention.

  29. 32

    Rudy spews:

    No need to throw out election to “get everyone’s attention” – everyone’s attention has definitely been gotten. Methinks you really mean ‘throw out the election, elect Rossi, then reform’. Anyway, that brings up the question of whether a D gov and D legislature can really do reforms that R’s would accept. Any prospects for reaching across the aisles here or does the issue just become fodder to make constituencies even angrier?

  30. 33

    Chuck spews:

    Methinks you really mean ‘throw out the election, elect Rossi>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Sorry Rudy nice try, no I mean throw out the election, have a runoff and elect the party that the people choose at that point from the two that have one this election (Rossi twice, Gregoire once) then move forward with a legitamate governor.

  31. 34

    Jim Hill spews:

    jcricket- LEANS Republican- C’mon- I’m a flaming, never-been-in-the closet Republican! Was out fighting the good fight before these neo-neo-cons were out of diapers! I remember Jeanne Kirkpatrick, and all the other TRUE neo-cons when they came over from the Democrats in the ’70’s!

    But MY Republican Party- the conservatives of my Republican Party- from Senator Taft to Senator Goldwater to Everett Dirksen to Ronald Reagan- were not mean-spirited hateful people. In the post-war years, Bob Taft got the ball rolling on public housing… in the 1960’s, Everett Dirksen delivered most of the Republicans for Civil Rights (would never have passed if dependent upon Democrats). Ronald Reagan didn’t have a hating bone in his body. Even our current President is trying to move major immigration reform forward (and perhaps the Democrats will return the favor for Everett Dirksen forty years ago on civil rights).

    Naw, I’m and out and out Republican- but those OTHER guys over elsewhere in the Matrices, they are what we used to call “heretics”…

    Now, after all that- Janet has a point, given experiences some have had- maybe the GOP did try and check those votes having been counted, and maybe they got incorrect information. I’m like her and Chuck- my confidence is shaken, even though I have never supported the cries of fraud- and still do not support those cries.

    And for all the triumphal whoop-de-doo from ya’ll on the (for now) winning side- the first recount wasn’t good enough, you didn’t have faith in it, and wanted to take the next step, as was your right.

    well, the shoe is on the other foot, now, and for many of us, the manual recount isn’t good enough, we don’t have faith in it, and we want to take the next legal step in this process.

    I don’t mind joshing back and forth with most of you about which theory (if any) holds water. I’ll join you- sometimes even lead you- in poking fun at other blogs in the Matrices. And when this is all over, life will go on. Goldy’s going to pick a watering hole, we are going to go watch the Eagles triumph, and I’m buying the first round.

    But please respect those of us who come here bearing true information to the best of our ability, who try to laugh and get along, but who are still pulling for our guy and want serious theories erxplored- even as we express our exhasperation at some of the lunatic theories out there…

    (And for the record, I see no hope in anything but the “defaced” ballots, and ya’ll have seen my point-of-view on that, and Goldy’s ripostes, and my counter-attacks. And I think all of THAT has been sufficiently explored until hard evidence is presented to a court. Other than that- maybe the overseas military vote, but I don’t think that is quantifiable enough to be more than a real flash point in the future).

    If ya’ll want to be constructive, add to the “Sound of Counting” songbook. Jim Hill made a good start- lots of good songs there to be worked…

  32. 36

    jcricket spews:

    Sorry Jim, didn’t mean to insinuate that you only lean Republican. That’s the problem these days. Only two terms to pick from, and they mean different things each election cycle, depending on who’s in charge and the “spin cycle”. Despite what others say here, I’m a moderate/pragmatist (although I lean farther left on social issues), not a left-wing radical. I even vote for the occasional Republican if there record is good.

    However ,I trust Bush so little that while I am nominally in agreement about the immigration situation, I’m not inclined to support him. It seems that as soon as you support Bush on one thing, he drags you into another war (and before anyone starts, that was a joke).

    But the thing you said I agree with you the most on was: “And when this is all over, life will go on.” I’m totally with you on that, whatever the outcome. At least none of us found ourselves caught in a tsunami or have to clean up the dead after the entire town was washed out to sea. Just a good old-fashioned close election in the US-of-A.

    I hope you know that I do respect you – but I still seriously doubt the enhanced ballot issue will go anywhere – to me it seems like something there wouldn’t be support for (from Sam Reed, his staff and KC election officials, who I’m sure have read the statutes)
    if it were prima facie illegal. Perhaps there is a legal argument to be presented, but I doubt it has as strong a weight as those over in Snarkville are putting on it.

  33. 37

    Bax spews:

    Here’s a question: since apparently election law is a huge issue for the GOP, one can assume that Rossi was all over it when he was in the Senate. How many bills did he introduce that changed the way the election system works in Washington?

    I have a feeling I know the answer…

  34. 38

    Jim King spews:

    jcricket- I wouldn’t bet on it, either- but it is the ONLY argument (other than the overseas military, which I don’t see as provably quantifiable as necessary to have a good attack) that I see holding any water. Maybe if the Snark had focused on something real, earlier, instead of fraud and conspiracy, but he has NO credibility- except when it comes to beating on Palestinian protestors… THEN he’s real macho- as long as he can run off and hide…

  35. 39

    Jim King spews:

    Bax- Actually, the Republicans have been pretty active on election law- but that was Pam Roach’s committee…

  36. 40

    HowCanYouBeProudtobeAnASS spews:

    Well congrats libs – big headline on OrbusMax over which I’m quite sure you’ll all want to whoop and gloat. I don’t for a moment believe it’s actually over but who knows at this point. I’m a political junkie and quite frankly even I’m worn out. Enjoy the whooping, as I know you will.

  37. 41

    jcricket spews:

    Jim – At this point in the election cycle I don’t think “might hold water” will be good enough to go to court. Given the very equivocal/vague language Chris Vance is using in his recent press conferences, my guess is that the Repubs won’t file a suit. The stakes are too high, and their evidence too flimsy. If they had good evidence (and I’m sure their lawyers are good), they’d gladly file a suit – can you imagine the political damage a slam dunk lawsuit would do to Democrats? You could make political hay of that for years (a la Nixon or Clinton).

    At this point I think the best the Republicans will get is an energized base, especially in the rural areas. Which may or may not translate into a win against Cantwell or further on down the line. A more energized Dem base in ’04 didn’t translate into a Kerry win, so it’s not a slam dunk from partisan outrage to “regime change”.

  38. 42

    Goldy spews:

    Careful there Jim… you don’t want to piss off the Snark. Next thing I know you’ll be stomping on his camera.

    FYI… read between the lines of Dave Ammons piece. Could cooler heads prevail?

  39. 43

    Jim King spews:

    Goldy- see the P-I editorial for tomorrow, already on line…

    This thing’s going to be allowed to cool off, while the more mature minds in the GOP weigh their case. After all, they have until January 20th (despite Nick Handy’s error- but what do you expect from a state election’s director who’s only qualification was he was a buddy of Sam Reed’s. Handy had no election experience- other than as a voter- then he’s Director of Elections? I have less confidence there than I have in Dean Logan…).

  40. 44

    WesternFlyer spews:

    Vance neglected to check that the ballots it wanted counted already were in fact counted? What a moron. His strategic judgment (“this shouldn’t be in the courts” v. 2 weeks later “we are filing a lawsuit”) is very questionable. I am surprised that the savvy GOP contributors put up with such buffoonery that they would never tolerate in companies they are shareholders of.

    This story of fighting to count ballots that are already counted is symptomatic of the entire count and recount process since November 2. The State GOP has never let facts get in the way of its supposition and innuendo.

  41. 45

    Billy spews:

    To answer earlier question about rossi and election law — irony of ironies, in 2001, he voted for the recount reform package his team is now trying to overturn in court.

  42. 47

    Jim King spews:

    Sorry Billy- you need to go look at 2001’s SHB 1644 before throwing out such inane comments… Section 1 of the bill established the definition of “recount” that the Republicans had upheld by the State Supreme Court. Section 2 dealt with counties having to use forms provided by the SOS and required them to transmit their results electronically. Section 3 cleaned up language regarding the requesting of a recount. Section 4 put in the 2,000 vote trigger. Section 5 put in the higher fees required for a recount request, and cleaned up notification language. Section 6 cleaned up old lever machine language. Section 7 recreated the language that a partial recount that reversed the election woulkd trigger a full recount- some of that had been deleted in Section 6. Section 8 was clarification regarding reporting results of a recount. Sections 9 and 10 were code clean-up (grammatical changes). And section 11 was another insertion of the 2,000 trigger. The bill passed both houses unanimousely.

    So, Billy- which part of this bill is the GOP trying to overturn?

    Don’t go tossing accusations of hypocrisy until you do your research…

  43. 48

    Jim King spews:

    And bby- don’t believe all the unverified bullshit that gets posted on a blog… check the source material… :)

  44. 49

    DCF spews:

    Janet S, is right we need to get rid of all those incompetents that work for/in the state’s auditor’s offices, and that enhancement of ballots should not be allowed under any circumstances. If the each and every ballot were tied to an anonymous identifier, the voter could be contacted to “enhance” their own ballot.

    Rudy, our election officials need to work harder, if as you say they are working as hard as they can, they need to be replaced. I don’t think you realize how poorly trained the people that work at the poles are in our state. We need to get our rears in gear and get this quagmire cleaned up. You also need to learn the difference between descriptive language and name calling, as in “you are a . . . .”

    bby, “Let’s start at the beginning. We use a SECRET ballot system. So there is NEVER a direct reference to individualk ballots except in rare cases, the contested, then codes are used.” I believe that your statement is wrong. How many absentee voters did we have this time around? And everyone of those absentee ballots were not SECRET, by law they were tied to a name that any person involved in counting votes could have kept track of. So your term RARE CASES is not a true statement. BTW I don’t think I made any aspersions as to your education when you stated that PeEll was the county seat of Skamania county, I thought I politely corrected your mistake (however, I did wonder if you ever had/absorbed one bit of education about the state you now live in). We found the glaring errors in our election process this time around only because the vote was so close, the counting of OUR votes has been screwed up for years and until now it never crossed our minds that our vote may never have been counted in all the years we’ve believed they were! And just think of the thousands of dollars our “imperfect” election system has cost us, the taxpayers.

    Goldy, Chuck brought up the car tabs issue, can we come back and talk about that on a later thread? After all it does apply to Timmy. I’m over my two to three paragraph rule.

  45. 50

    Chuck spews:

    A little off subject, but if you have DSL and are getting tired of popups and spyware, I suggest you get Mozilla’s Firefox web browser. Ive been going with it for 2 days and NO POPUPS! Dont ask me why not but it works, and if you want to keep Microsofts browser you can, they wont conflict with each other…

  46. 51

    bby spews:

    DCF – How can you post instructions and insults to everyone else -and then expect all the nice people you rag on not to tell you to take your insulte and sit on them….

    Whomever you are – I know ten time more about this state and have forgotten ten times more than you have ever learned.

    This blog is a great exchange- not needed are a constant barrge of insults and just attack for attack sake. Sarcasm is OK with wit…

    Go join the racist, homophobic, elitest, classist red neck nutwings on the sites they use to give therapy to each other.

    When I use the term rare, it is in the context of total ballots handled state wide, not in he cow counties only, and out of 2.8 million– most, even absentee are handled easily with existing procedures.

    I have been concerned aout elections for many years. Those that just tuned in better get up to speed. There are a hand full of those issues never mentioned here. AND, unfortunately all problems are magnified in the whole of the state because pf Seattle-King county population impact.

    Those of us who ive here are all talking reform and correction….but you that live in “smaller rural counties”….should follow suit. Better elections, in all counties support the Democrat call for Count Every Vote, Every Voter Counts —

    E-mail Rossi and tell him it is over. Needs to concede and let’s get on to the Legislature…..

  47. 52

    Goldy spews:

    Go join the racist, homophobic, elitest, classist red neck nutwings on the sites they use to give therapy to each other.

    BBY… I appreciate your sentiments, but we do not tell people to go away here. It’s the occasional racist, homophobic, elitist, wingnut that makes debate here so much fun and interesting. A spoonful of name-calling and wild invective helps the wonkish discourse go down.

  48. 54

    Goldy spews:

    Jim… since you’re so into songwriting, perhaps you’ll be interested to see one of the things I do to make a little money in my real life. Go to

    WazzuMike spews:

    I heard about SoundPolitics somewhere and found YOU through a reference there… I guess that means you owe them a ‘Hey, thanks” – anyway I’ve been reading here since the election and I have a suggestion. You really ought to muzzle your pet/mascot bby – he does nothing to further intellectual discourse and he brings down the credibility of those that do. His standard MO appears to be baiting and name calling and more than just a “spoonful” here and there Goldy.

    “Whomever you are – I know ten time more about this state and have forgotten ten times more than you have ever learned.

    This blog is a great exchange- not needed are a constant barrge of insults and just attack for attack sake. Sarcasm is OK with wit…”

    Leash the pet Goldy for the sake of the rest of us. Thanks

  49. 57

    Goldy spews:

    WazzuMike… I think the discourse here tends to be fairly self-regulatory… it would take an incredibly offensive comment for me to “leash” anybody… and the only leash I have at my disposal is to go nuclear and block their IP.

    But I encourage commentators to try to keep their peers in line when rhetoric gets too extreme… or tedious.

  50. 59

    DCF spews:

    bby, “DCF – How can you post instructions and insults to everyone else -and then expect all the nice people you rag on not to tell you to take your insulte and sit on them….” I’d like to know how I ragged on you, I gave you an example how I could have jumped down your throat, but didn’t in my post about PeEll. And don’t you get it? I’m a Democrat! I don’t want Rossi, but I do want citizens of the state to get a fair shake when it comes to their rights. How long have you lived in this state to know ten times more than I do about it? I really don’t care if you do know ten times more about the state, but I don’t understand why you go all ballistic when I try to make a point. Janet S. deserves as much courtesy as you do when she expresses her opinion. And I’m not a “racist, homophobic, elitest, classist red neck nutwings,” sorry you get that out of my posts. I’m for gay marriage; I don’t work in the sun to the point that my neck is sunburned; I’m certainly not elite (my income is only $1000 a month); and I have grandchildren that are half black. Gee, maybe I need to check into my use of the English language.

    You would agree that the absentee ballots have a tie to the person voting? That their names are signed on the outside of the envelopes that their ballots are returned in? I believe that I stated in many of my posts that I believe that my county auditor should loose his job next time around for his mis-handling of vote counting procedures this time around.

    I wouldn’t e-mail Rossi if my life depended on it because I don’t give a big rats rear what he will/won’t do.

  51. 60

    Jim King spews:

    Goldy- will go check out some of what you do in real life… Always interesyted in other people and THEIR interests…

  52. 61

    bby spews:

    Let’s be intellectual – Wazzu – is this some new demonination for Washington State University…and heaven forbid I would suggest that scrcasm is ok, with wit….come now…..

    What facts are you trying to present to the blog readers? Missed that– just a little hint – are you a Democrat or perhaps a Greenie…OK to breakout

    WSU has been plagued by poor race relations…any insight to share…and from what I hear rampant alcolholism…. but let’s be nice and intellectual.

    String theory would be a good topic for a while, n’est pas?

  53. 62

    bby spews:

    Did, in the interest of intellectual dicourse/intercourse, a new poster – WSU- call me a foaming rabid dog….will email that to my mom, she will surely get a chuckle…mom has super rapier wit plus nice cookies.

    I do have a lot of pent up anger at the New Century version of the ultra right wing. And their take over of the R’ party…they scare me.

    I have no heart for the New Fascist American Century….perhaps this spills over…but Rossi still need to concede. Period.