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G.O.P. Debate Open Thread

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The debate should start at 5:30. I’ll be at Drinking Liberally and live-blogging the event (internet bandwidth permitting).

To get this thread started, here is an interesting video that was released today:

Does this provide any insights about one particular G.O.P. candidate’s (1) truthfulness, (2) great memory, (3) campaign substance?

5:10: The kiddie debate is over. Caught the closing statements. Sen. Man-on-dog wins just because he had such an upbeat way of talking about death.

5:25: What the fuck, CNN? “Trump arrives at debate” isn’t fucking news.

5:33: Someone named “Rinse Prius” or something is giving some bullshit talk. He sounds like a used car salesman.

5:36: Is Donald Trump holding up the show? Holy fuck…start without him!

5:43: Rand Paul has morphed into Ron Paul: Unelectable oddball.

5:44: Red ties are in.

5:46: Again?!? Seriously? The national anthem? This debate better involve some sort of physical test of skill!

5:48: Did Paul just say the Constitution is wrong?

5:52: Hey, Chris Christie, those LA father’s are probably thankful they aren’t crossing a bridge in NJ!

5:55: Jeb Bush: “I’ll keep our country safe, secure, and free”…just like my Brother did.

5:58: Carson pauses for a moment of silence. Don’t be fooled…he just REALLY needed to close his eyes.

6:02: Jeb: “Trump would be a Kaos president.” Get Smart!

6:05: Cruz is a one issue candidate tonight: “Obama won’t say ‘radical Islamic Terrorism’, so vote for me.

6:08: Is Christie wearing a “junk” pin on his lapel?

6:20: Christie needs to make an executive decision to straighten his tie.

6:22: Carson bails on a question…and looks really bad doing it. Wow.

6:26: Fiorina throws around “CEO” as if Americans have a positive association with the term.

6:36: Aaaaaaahhhh…a Muslimey looking questioner! Everyone duck under your podiums!!! (podia?)

6:39: Actually, Donald, Bush seems a little more energetic than you do this evening….

7:08: This debate has become exceptionally empty and repetitive.

7:11: “Punch Russia in ‘The Nose'” Nikolai Gogol smiled.

7:12: Earth to Fiorina: The withdrawal from Iraq was Bush’s doing.

7:19: Trump hurt himself with his juvenile “tough guy” insults to Jeb and then talking poll numbers. He should save that crap for campaign events.

7:32: Donald Trump. A totally low energy debater. Low ENERGY. Am I right?

7:37: Kasich says stuff that doesn’t sound extreme. But doesn’t really say anything at all.

7:45: As President, Dr. Carson could do brain surgery on “unstable” Kim Jong Un

7:45: Carson memorized a bunch of military stuff!

7:47: Ummm…Jeb Bush used a private email server while Gubernator of FL.

7:55: At this point Carson seems almost incapable of speaking…

8:03: Jeb bush stumbles his way through his closing comments. He was doing okish until then.

8:04: Rubio: “Now millions of Americans feel left behind”…like most Muslim Americans?

8:05: Carson’s “exceptionalism” closing statement makes him sound like he munched on lead paint chips as a lad.

Wrap-up. Another retched debate. My complaints is that WAAAAYYYYYY too much time was spent on security and terrorism. Fact is…foreign terrorism is a pretty minor threat in the U.S. Domestic terrorism is a much bigger threat, but no real discussion of that. That’s because IT DOESN’T SCARE VOTERS enough. I missed a chunk of the debate, but I didn’t hear anything about climate change, the environment, air polution, the economy, health care, domestic infrastructure, gun safety, white collar & Wall Street crime, higher education, primary education, mass transit & reducing traffic congestion, tax relief for the poor, reducing income inequality, energy independence, credit card fraud, etc., etc. These are issues that affect Americans every single day. And there was nothing.

These guys are in a political campaign bubble, and completely out of touch with the real America. But they got that fear thing going….

Comments

  2. 2

    The national anthem is being sung by Ayla Brown. In case you’re wondering, she’s the daughter of GOP ex-Sen. Scott Brown, was an NCAA basketball player of some note, and is the Philadelphia 76ers “official anthem singer,” according to Wikipedia.

  3. 3

    Jeb! wants to rebuild our military. But is he willing to raise taxes to do it? If not, it’s just cheap talk.

  4. 4

    Rubio thinks bigotry is one of our “traditional values.” Well, shit, he’s a conservative; and conservatives don’t like change. Social progress is anathema to them.

  5. 5

    Trump wants to build up our military. But is he willing to raise taxes to do it? If not, he’s just blowing hot air.

  8. 8

    Fiorina’s solution to ISIS is to ask the private sector for help. That’s fine, as far as it goes, but I’ll go with Anonymous, and they don’t have to be asked, they’ve already volunteered.

  11. 11

    The GOP’s leading military expert, Ted Cruz, is explaining how he’ll use “overwhelming air power” and “carpet bombing” to wipe out 20,000 ISIS fighters mingling among 8 to 10 million civilians.

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Fighting a modern urban guerilla war is a problem the world’s best military thinkers haven’t been able to solve. The Russians couldn’t do it in Afghanistan; we couldn’t do it in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. It’s an extremely complicated and challenging problem, and simplistic rhetoric won’t cut the mustard.

  12. 12

    I’m a little surprised that not only does Trump exhibit a “Ted Stevens-level grasp of the Internet”, but so does Carly.

  13. 13

    Rubio wants to build up the military. But is he willing to raise taxes to do it? If not, he’s an empty suit.

  15. 15

    Cruz’s military strategy is to shoot at the enemy. This isn’t original. If Napoleon didn’t think of it first, then maybe the Chinese who invented gunpowder 2,000 years ago who did. It’s not as simple as Cruz makes it sounds, because it’s a rare enemy who is willing to be shot or stands up so you can shoot him.

  17. 17

    Trump wants to kill the enemy’s families. This isn’t original. If Hitler didn’t think of it first, then maybe the Romans did 2,000 years ago.

  18. 18

    Rubio wants to send Arab armies after ISIS. Well, they don’t need our permission, so what are they waiting for? (Also, I don’t think they’re going to take their orders from any American president.)

  20. 20

    Trump and Carson at least understand that military adventures don’t always turn out as you hope they will. Paul is stating the obvious when he says, “Regime change hasn’t worked.” Which is just another way of saying the same thing.

  21. 21

    @ RR

    “Trump wants to kill the enemy’s families. This isn’t original. If Hitler didn’t think of it first, then maybe the Romans did 2,000 years ago.”

    And the Greeks before them, and the Turks, and the Assyrians….

    I’m not watching the debate. My televisor machine is entirely purposed to my DVD and VCR.n I get no cable, nor any broadcast.

    Television is absolute proof of the power of propaganda. If Hitler would have had television available, he’d have won WW2. There were plenty of Americans who supported that man. Hell, the founders of the modern State of Israel were a bunch of old eastern European Fascists who retreated from the German pogroms in Europe, mostly before they even really started.

    Fascism is just the simplest way for the big industrialists to solve the surplus labor problem that they themselves create.

  23. 23

    Also, what if send our pilots to dogfight Russian pilots, and their pilots win? What then?

  24. 24

    Bush says we need a much stronger military. But is he willing to raise taxes to pay for it? If not, he’s just shooting the breeze.

  26. 26

    I have a suggestion for the moderators: Install kill switches on the candidates’ mikes so you can turn them off when they speak out of turn.

  29. 29

    The Gun Party is talking about keeping Americans safe from terrorists with AR-15s. Hahahahahahaha …

    Does anyone else on this blog see the irony?

  30. 30

    OK, it’s time for CNN’s reality checks.

    1. “Cruz, Fiorina and Huckabee claims social media checks were prohibited or willfully ignored in visa cases. Verdict: False.”

    2. “Kasich on encryption. Verdict: False.”

    3. “Trump wants to shut down the Internet in Iraq and Syria to help stem terrorism. Verdict: True, but not likely to happen.”

    4. “Trump on $150 billion in unfrozen Iranian assets. This assertion is deemed false.”

    5. “Fiorina on generals retiring early. Verdict: False.”

    6. “Cruz on Syrian refugees. Verdict: False.”

    7. “Pataki on Trump’s Muslim ban for U.S. soldiers. Verdict: False.”

    8. “Pataki on Muslim surveillance preventing ‘dozens’ of attacks. Verdict: False.”

    9. “Santorum on the NSA’s canceled phone record spying. Verdict: True, but misleading.”

    10. “Graham on ISIS in nine countries. Verdict: True.”

    11. “Huckabee on surveillance of religious institutions. We rate Huckabee’s claim as mostly True.”

    12. “Huckabee on military size. Verdict: False.”

    13. “Huckabee asserts movie ‘Casablanca’ ends with walk into sunset. Verdict: False.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/15/.....index.html

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Not only are the GOP candidates a pack of liars, but Fuckabee doesn’t even know how the most famous movie of all time ended. Maybe where he comes from people spend all their time praying and don’t ever watch movies, listen to music, or dance.

  35. 35

    I got home and watched about 5 minutes of the debate. Would have been more interesting if they had all been wearing bright tights, capes and masks. Which may actually get them in touch with some Hispanic voters.

    I did notice all the commotion over the internet and yet none the candidates were asked ok so how about the government or these companies doing encryption just putting all your e-mail through the process you are proposing for others.

    They could have asked Donald Trump one simple question. When your working on a property deal you put a lot of information on the internet about it prior? Don’t you like have a flunky go out and do the footwork, and at most there maybe a handwritten memo between the two of you? Could ISIS do something like that?

    So Rubio and Cruz ain’t nothing stopping you from trying to get a declaration of war. I don’t even know if the President could veto a Declaration of War. I know President Madison was handed a Declaration of War he was not at all thrilled with. Yet he signed it and proceeded to make war. Tell President Obama to make war and I’m sure he will go do it. If it’s President Clinton she will with a bit more vigor. Something we Americans are good at killing brown people in a foreign land. All of our politicians are dancing around the fact war involves killing people and that ultimately means putting troops on the ground. With the right leadership many of the troops we have trained will make really good mercenary troops in Iraq, or even good or great Iraqi soldiers if it wasn’t for the corrupt leaders the current government has put over them. So we got ISIS (Baath party military guys out of a job) as a new party pooper. And they are everywhere even places they can’t possible be the life of the party as some other fascist group wants to be top dog…ok so we make peace and kill them and then we kill each other.

  36. 36

    @33 And your point is you didn’t read the article you are posting as it doesn’t support your statement; or you can’t do math?

    32,000 times 365 is a number north of 1,100,000.

    As a bounus a few lines from Woody Guthrie.

    Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye, Rosalita,
    Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria;
    You won’t have your names when you ride the big airplane,
    All they will call you will be “deportees”

    My father’s own father, he waded that river,
    They took all the money he made in his life;
    My brothers and sisters come working the fruit trees,
    And they rode the truck till they took down and died.

    Some of us are illegal, and some are not wanted,
    Our work contract’s out and we have to move on;
    Six hundred miles to that Mexican border,
    They chase us like outlaws, like rustlers, like thieves.

    (Writer of our state song).

  37. 37

    @34 Well mostly it was the French and British and some other folks living in Europe who gradually pulled us into the mess with some kicking and screaming from I can recollect. Perhaps there should have been more kicking and screaming from the Republican side of isle of both houses of Congress.

  39. 39

    6:22: Carson bails

    That probably won’t affect Carson supporters (who can figure out why they do), but that should knock anyone on the fence right over. I wonder if he’ll survive Iowa.

    Bush’s best moment was Jeb Bush: “Donald, you’re not going to be able to insult your way to the presidency.” But even that was awkward and unpleasant. I expected much more from the “smarter brother.” His whole campaign has been a disappointment.

    I have no idea how conservatives are going to judge this. It was very entertaining. It’s disturbing that they are running for the highest office, but it did have that Reality TV drama going for it. I can’t wait until the season finale. Hope it’s not a cliff hanger (EVERYONE VOTE). Can’t wait to see the adults on Saturday, either.

  40. 40

    @ RR “suggestion for the moderators…kill the mikes” I’ve been surprised at that all season. It’s not surprising that they can’t control themselves or act like adults with amount of dignity and decorum. It does surprise me that they think this is how they should comport themselves as POTUS. But yes: give them the light, maybe a buzzer so the audience knows time is up, give them a few moments to finish the thought; but when they start into a brand new homily after time is expired, fade that shit out and move on. They’ll shut up when they realize no one can hear them. Some of them will probably pout when their time comes back around, but it’ll be their time to use as “wisely” as they see fit. The show will go on. On the other hand, I would have enjoyed watching a free-for-all with the camera’s trying to follow the action like a Housewives of (someCity) show. (I’m imagining. I’ve only seen clips.)

  41. 41

    Mark Adams @36,

    Apparently reading comprehension is not your forte either. The article covers the LIE of 2 million deported. Where did that number come from? Republicans? Independents” Uhhhh NOPE! If came from Obummer’s sadministration and their sycophants! It’s so unfortunate that the disease of libtardism is so prevalent on this blog.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com...../?page=all

    So even Roger senile’s Politifact article is a lie. Those caught at the border are inflated numbers.

    Stay stoooooooooooopid Mark Adams. You fit right in with this mentally diseased loser crowd!

  45. 45

    Fear wins the evening!
    Huge New York ticker tape parade planned to honor Fear!
    Simon Cowell standing by to offer lucrative contract to Fear!
    Hottest costume for Halloween 2016 is Fear!

  46. 46

    @33 “Sooooooooooooo all those libtard reports that Obummer claimed to deport 2MM people are a bunch of lies?”

    Yeah, that 2 million figure is bullshit. Way too low; according to my calculations, 32,886 per month x 12 months x 7 years in office = 2,762,424. If that average is maintained, the number will blow through 3MM before he leaves office.

  49. 49

    @41 Yes, I realize you have to assert Politifact is lying in order to make your “math” work. See #46. Specifically, you and Washington Times make your “math” work by arguing that most of the deportations under Obama shouldn’t be counted as deportations. This is similar to how Republicans avoid paying taxes. It’s legal if you don’t count your income as income, which is how corporations and the rich do it. So, it’s not surprising that’s how the GOP’s propagandists (WT) and lackeys (Puddy) make Obama’s 2.7 million deportations disappear, too.

  50. 50

    @49,
    Calling everyone liars is the other big defining characteristic of insurgent conservatives after fear. Kubler-Ross is what I’m thinking. Probably a ways to go yet before acceptance.

  52. 52

    By way of contrast, retired General Vallely has been proven to be a liar by his own admissions (as conveyed by his lawyers). Of course I’m not calling him a liar. I’m just passing along how his own lawyers describe his statements.

    Interesting fact: Vallely is a renowned “Birther”.
    Context.

  53. 53

    Yeah, that 2 million figure is bullshit.

    Glad you agree the number is way inflated for “political purposes” Roger senile.

  54. 54

    @41 Yes, I realize you have to assert Politifact is lying in order to make your “math” work.

    Ummm NOPE you DOPEY Roger senile… DHS Jeh Johnson said it not the Wa Times or Puddy!

    Sux to be you!

  55. 55

    From the data table referenced in the WaPo opinion piece criticizing the Obama Administration “deportation” numbers:

    “… (Table 39: Aliens Removed and Returned, FY 1892-2012) his cumulative numbers since taking office show Obama has removed a total of 1,974,688 people and returned 1,609,055 others.”

    So as of the FY ending just over 3 years ago nearly 2 million using the more restrictive category. That’s according to the data relied upon by the administration critics.

  57. 57

    What I wrote @46: “Yeah, that 2 million figure is bullshit. Way too low; …”

    What Puddy quoted @53: “Yeah, that 2 million figure is bullshit,” and then wrote: “Glad you agree the number is way inflated for ‘political purposes’ Roger senile.”

    Misrepresentation, anyone? But then, we already all know Puddy is a shameless liar.

  59. 59

    I think if you cut through the bullshit (if that’s possible) what’s at the heart of Republican criticism of the Obama Administration efforts at immigration enforcement is that as the critics see it, the administration isn’t being mean enough.

    They really can’t argue the numbers (though how they try). Whether you look at removals or returns the numbers are much higher under this administration. But when pressed by these data, many of the administration critics respond ultimately that they don’t like how too much of the enforcement effort is taking place at the border. This as opposed to going street by street in our communities, kicking down doors and tossing flash-bangs.

    You know, like why the hell aren’t they going after that guy at the end of the block with too many cars in his driveway? Or that barbecue guy? The guy who’s always outside grilling in the yard? Or that guy who just got the new boat? How’d he afford that, anyways? Probly stoled it. Yup. Or all those guys at the Home Depot? Except not till after this weekend. I need my gutters cleaned.

  60. 60

    In other news, the Federal Reserve just raised interest rates by 0.25%, the first rate increase since 2006. The stock market appears to be reacting positively.

  61. 61

    Oh my you HA DUMMOCRETINS are interminable insufferable morons… http://www.latimes.com/nation/.....story.html

    From the WA Times Johnson’s own words under questioning…

    “Under the Obama administration, more than half of those removals that were attributed to ICE are actually a result of Border Patrol arrests that wouldn’t have been counted in prior administrations,” said Rep. John Culberson, Texas Republican.

    “Correct,” Mr. Johnson confirmed.

    Puddy thinks if one cuts through the bullshit (if that’s possible) what’s at the heart of DUMMOCRETIN deflection on immigration is the DUMMOCRETIN Party wants this as a wedge issue forever.

    Obummer has been inflating the numbers since Obummer became preznit!

  63. 63

    @59 And what they don’t take into account, because of their focus on themselves, is the money immigrants generate both here and in smaller countries will hurt everybody if it’s stopped, them included. That’s what’s so pernicious about racism. Any time you hold back a large segment of the population, it is a liability for everyone to bear. If their argument is Americans can fill those jobs, than it must be some manner of forced labor they have in mind. We’re at 5% unemployment, soon there won’t be enough workers and wages will have to rise. Then for sure you’ll need immigrant workers. Unless a Republican gets elected. The proud racist himself, King Trumpkin.

  64. 64

    Okay, let’s clear something up here. This row over deportation data springs from Trump’s promise to deport all the illegals, and criticism from other GOP candidates that it’s not feasible to round up and deport 13 million people, to which Trump responded by claiming other presidents have done it. No, they haven’t; no administration has deported anywhere near 13 million people.

    What’s Puddy doing here? He’s disputing that roughly 2.7 million people have been deported by the Obama administration. He says it’s much less, because illegals nabbed at the border don’t count. If we go along with this, and agree Obama has deported 1 million or less, then it seems to me that further undermines Trump’s assertion that it’s feasible to deport all the illegals in the U.S.

    Therefore, Puddy is taking issue with Trump and arguing on the side of Trump’s critics.

  65. 65

    Rep. John Culberson, Texas Republican, like even immigration lawyers, of course, confuses the category of “removal” with the category of “return”. A closer examination can be very revealing in terms of just exactly how racist demagogues use confusion and inconsistency to create a false narrative that serves their agenda of fear mongering.

    To wit: The WaPo article criticizing imprecision in the reporting of immigration statistics actually cites this LA Times story as a good example of such imprecision. The author of the WaPo essay, herself a prominent academic expert on the complexity of immigration law, and an outspoken critic of the administration’s enforcement actions against undocumented workers, explains how the terminology and categories under consideration in the law itself have been changed. An outspoken opponent of immigration reform in Congress is quoted making the same common mistake in terminology during a hearing. And the very same mistaken LA Times story is referenced again.

    It’s a fucking sideshow. The trick is to just keep the three cards moving. Any minute Criss Angel is going to jump out at us and yell “Mindfreak!”

  66. 66

    What’s Puddy doing here? He’s disputing that roughly 2.7 million people have been deported by the Obama administration. He says it’s much less, because illegals nabbed at the border don’t count. If we go along with this, and agree Obama has deported 1 million or less, then it seems to me that further undermines Trump’s assertion that it’s feasible to deport all the illegals in the U.S.

    Just telling the truth Roger senile! How is telling the truth undercutting anyone except the Obummer sadministration?

  68. 68

    @66 You’re also undercutting Trump’s claims, but go ahead and be oblivious to that aspect of your argument. You don’t give a damn about Trump anyway; you’re a Carson supporter, and he’s already irrelevant.

  69. 69

    Roger @58
    @56 I’ll speculate it’s a subliminal sign that he’s fucking Puddy’s wife.

    s/wife/lawfully wedded goat/

  70. 70

    @ RR @ 68

    You can damn well bet the farm that The Schitz would be rah-rahing Donald Trump as rabidly as any StormFronter if that man gets the nomination. Hell, he’d even put a “Lets Make America White Again!” bumpersticker on his Lexus.

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