FoS is advocating a ‘No-No’ vote on the pointless and stupid (and expensive) vote this March. From a press release:
Friends of Seattle announces that it will recommend to its members that they vote NO on Measure 1 to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct with a tunnel and NO on Measure 2 for an elevated replacement.
After the state’s two intolerable choices are voted down by the voters, our political leaders, at all levels, must work to find a solution that accounts for the goals and values of a livable and sustainable urban community. Friends of Seattle urges the city to work with the county and state to develop a real solution that:
(1) replaces the Viaduct with a pedestrian-friendly Alaskan Way surface boulevard;
(2) expands bus, vanpool, carpool, and water taxi services;
(3) accommodates the movement of freight;
(4) preserves city-owned land on the waterfront for public use as a park;
(5) minimizes the environmental impacts of major construction on Puget Sound; and
(6) accords with City and County commitments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
I wasn’t sure Friends of Seattle had the balls to take a stand against the tunnel. I’m glad they did. What is Governor Gregoire and Speaker Chopp going to do when BOTH measures fail?
I can’t wait for election day, when we can send two bad ideas (the gigantic rebuild and the tunnel) to the dustbin of civic history.
This sounds good, but this won’t be enough. Sound Transit should be convinced to expand its light rail system to include that corridor, by adding spurs to West Seattle and Ballard. Otherwise, there will be too much traffic on the boulevard for it to be pedestrian-friendly. We’ll also have to live with the viaduct for a few more years until the light rail transit is in place.
Instead Frank and Christine could join the Congressional Moonbat!s in this tax: http://www.washingtontimes.com.....-3865r.htm
“Democrats yesterday said the fee increases for naturalized citizenship and visas proposed by the Bush administration amount to a “citizenship tax” and vowed to fight it, saying taxpayers should pick up the bill for many immigrants. ”
Furball I’m sure you’d pay to have your friends “hop” on in right?
eponymous coward spews:
What is Governor Gregoire and Speaker Chopp going to do when BOTH measures fail?
What they ARE going to do is likely take the money dedicated to the Viaduct, apply it to 520, and tell the Seattle politicos “get back to us when you guys figure out what you’re going to do”.
I anticipate this being sometime around 2037, considering the giant clusterfuck ANY roadway/transit decision involving Seattle turns into. See: R. H. Thomson Expressway, Forward Thrust, Sound Transit, Monorail.
Thanks for the info. Disagree with your position on the tunnel — I still think it’s the best option for the future (when they built the NYC subway a lot of upper Manhattan was still farmland, and look how that turned out). Surface-only is my #2 option. Viaduct replacement … why bother?
Nonetheless, this “vote” is ridiculous, and I agree that every effort should be made to point that out.
rebuild: HELL NO!
message sent: “think harder.”
John Barelli spews:
Actually, after giving it much thought, I’ve changed my opinion. Yes, Seattle should get rid of the Viaduct and go with the surface street option. Tear that bad boy down and put in a San Francisco-style waterfront, complete with mimes and street musicians.
You see, I don’t live there.
I do visit, and would like the waterfront to be more pedestrian-friendly when I park my car over in Bremerton and ride the ferry across.
The problem with commercial access from the Port of Seattle is not only not my problem, but could be a benefit to my area. The Port of Tacoma has very good access to transporation, and there really isn’t that much in the way of tangible goods that come down from north of you folks. It should translate to an increase in business for Pierce County.
We’ve also got a growing downtown area with at least some room for expansion to take all those jobs that will move because it’s just too difficult to get around in Seattle. You folks can become a quaint little tourist town, and we’ll take over as the economic hub for the state.
If I want to go to Bellingham or Canada, I’ve got better options than driving through Seattle.
Ok, you’ve convinced me. Tear it down, and be sure to put in some more cute, tourist-friendly trolly cars and quaint little tchotchkey shops.
Oh, and the mimes. Don’t forget the mimes.
proud leftist spews:
John @ 6
I don’t live in Seattle, but I work here. As a ferry commuter, I walk across or under the viaduct every single day. It’s got to go. An eyesore is an eyesore. Commerce in Seattle will do just fine. I don’t want mimes, though. Mimes are kind of scary.
1. DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!!!! Absolutely agreed with you. Now I wonder whether our great and wise leaders have managed to specify the Sound Transit and Lake Union streetcar systems so they’re assured to be completely incompatible (supply voltage, trolley configuration, maybe even rail guage if they’re REALLY out to be dumb!) with each other and the extant waterfront trolley.
Is WsDOT Secretary Doug MacDonald channelling Robert Moses? Probably.
I agree with Matski. Tunnel is my #1 choice, its just the cost that gets me.
My Left Foot spews:
Off topic comment:
politicianpotential criminal/fugitive has surfaced in Nevada. This time it is the just elected Governor.
Don’t these guys learn, don’t they pay attention?
CARSON CITY, Nev. – Federal authorities confirmed Thursday that Nevada Gov. Jim Gibbons is under investigation for failing to properly report gifts or payments from a software company that was awarded secret military contracts when he was in Congress.
The newly elected Republican governor’s office issued a statement saying that while he was a close friend of the company owner, Warren Trepp, there was “no special power” that Gibbons could provide in awarding defense contracts to the company.
Right Stuff spews:
The vote is meaningless….Waste of money…
What will the Gov. do? What she should have done to begin with. Make the tough call. Be a leader. Replace the viaduct with another elevated structure.
If u don’t want to see this message again please write me at: firstname.lastname@example.org
I have had a hard time making up my mind on this issue. I would really want a tunnel, but also do not want another monster viaduct. What we got is a case of bad timing when the Viaduct was built. It was to wall off the waterfront from Downtown. Nobody wanted to see this working , commercial waterfront. The Viauduct opened in 1953. The S.S. Ideal X, carrying it’s cargo in nice, neat containers instead of traditional methods, made it’s initial voyage from Newark to the Gulf Coast in 1955. That transformed the shipping industry, and the old wharves and piers that run between Piers 48 and 70 were now obsolete. Also, the Viaduct was built at a time when the railroads were not only losing passenger traffic to cars, buses, and airplanes, but also freight to trucks. There was some buisness more efficiently handled by trucks, and they lost the Less than Carload Freight 100% to trucks. The Container and Trailer Trains helped revolutionize not only the Trucking and Maritime transport industries, but also the railroads. I remember reading a report online from the Washington Public Ports Association on frieght bottlenecks statewide. There are a few in the area of the AWV that prevent the efficient movement of container trains off of the dock and to the main-line. That is just one of the areas where there are bottlenecks.
Now with the Viaduct, perhaps I would probably vote against both options. If it is a meaningless vote, then it does not matter. Unfortunately, we only get two options. Same thing with politicians, I am tired of voting for the lesser of two evils.
FOrgot to add, it is interesting that most of the former governors, 1 of whom was in politics when this was originally built, and another that was an engineer that helped build it, are against the rebuild, and the only one that is not, is neutral.
David Sucher spews:
Repair & Prepare
The vote will be NO and NO on March 13th.
Meanwhile the state DOT is pretty much hunkering down into a “ramps to nowhere strategy” and dragging the Governor down with them.
The “ramps to nowhere” are monuments to past examples of a state Highway department trying to shove a freeway into Seattle that the people didn’t want. (The same sorts of capacity freaks presented the same capacity scares back then. Somehow the city thrived.)
If the Governor really wants to get something done, she needs better advice than she’s getting from MacDonald and his guys.
Or she might just fire MacDonald for creating this whole big mess. He should also be held accountable for the lack of progress on 520. And for all of his mindless bluster on I-90.
His total lack of a strategy beyond what he sees in the mirror is currently likely to doom any chance of building a new 520 bridge with a vote this fall.
Dan Rather spews:
Off topic comment:
Another REPUBLICAN politician potential criminal/fugitive has surfaced in Nevada. This time it is the just elected Governor.
When a donk says this, you know it is another false charge.
Ricky Gervais spews:
(7) Cause a temporal shift in emotional karma, creating a rainbow 1/2 mile in radius to flow out of ground near Ivars fish and chips, ending at the sculpture park. Pot of gold to follow.
Yes, I’m having a laugh.
janet s spews:
At the prompting of Mr. Barelli, I am posting a newsflash. Goldy’s previous post about Luke Esser has no basis in fact. Goldy saw a press release on the website, and made an assumption that Mr. Esser is collecting a paycheck from the state while being elected Republican Party Chair.
He offers no proof of this, and multiple newspapers have stated that Mr. Esser resigned his state job after being elected. But, hey, why let facts get in the way of a really good smear job?
Interesting how we take forever on transportation projects, both roads and rail, while others sure can build. Here is something from Albuquerque that I have been following on a railfan board. The moderator from New Jersey keeps track of it, and there is a railfan posting from ABQ that also posts updates. RailRunner came about due to Governor Bill Richardson wanting to be prepared, plus it gave him an excuse to look like the good guy saving a redundant(to BNSF) but vital(to Amtrak) rail line via Raton Pass. Amtrak’s Southwest Chief uses the route, but it is about the only westbound movement on that line, while Eastbound, sometimes if congestion at Belen is too much, some light Intermodal Trains use Raton Pass.
Richardson has only been Governor since 2003. RailRunner started last year with a few stations, and Phase I is nearly complete. Phase II will be complete by the end of next year. What delayed the Northern Terminus of Santa Fe from being served, is it requires new track. Well, they chose the alignment for that, it will include running in the median of I-25.
Roger Rabbit spews:
@18 You’re saying the FBI is a tool of the Democrats? You are a dolt.
Laurence Ballard spews:
For someone who has “resigned his state job” a male voice identifying himself as Mr. Esser and Outreach Director for the AG, apologizes for being unavailable and requests you leave a message.
Odd behest for a former employee, yes?
harry tuttle spews:
I said I’d vote no and no on the March ballot a couple of days ago.
Reinforce the AWV and spend the next 25 years building the transit infrastructure that will allow us to tear the, by then, 80 year-old anachronism down.
All you Seattle centric type need to realize that there is stuff moving THROUGH that corridor. No mass transit for instance will get me from East Marginal to Mukilteo (two Boeing plants).
It is that Seattle centric thinking that makes our mass transit system so screwy as it is. One can get downtown easy but anywhere else is a mess.
You have a good point. The Surface+Transit option would only work if there was the transit to begin with. There was a rail transit line, but the Olympic Sculpture Park felt the streetcar barn, being a pre-fabricated structure with corrugated siding, was a blight. It was largely single-tracked with passing sidings on Main Street just south of 2nd Ave Ext, and about two on Alaskan Way. They needed the maintenance facility because the 3 1927-Vintage Melbourne Streetcars need to be stored indoors, due to the salty air, plus they have thier original interiors. The new designs can be parked outside overnight. Now perhaps the mayor, who likes streetcars it seems, should promote the fact that under both the tunnel and the surface options, the Waterfront Streetcar would be double-tracked. Double-Tracking allows it to operate not only as a tourist line, but also as a transit line. There could also be some extensions of the line. COnnect with the South Lake Union Line, a proposed S. Jackson Street line(I have seen the reports on the city website) that would go as far as 12th Avenue, or even 23rd Ave S. I at first dismissed it as not feasible when I saw the Allied Arts presentation of ideas of how the Waterfront without a Viaduct would work. I thought, since in the old days Madison Street was a Cable Car line, a modern streetcar would not work on it. Then I read recently, modern streetcars could theoretically go up a grade of 12%.
One thing San Francisco is doing in the Embarcadero, is building another Historic Streetcar Line, the E-Embarcadero Line, which will be an extension of the F-Market and Wharves line, which some say operates at a profit.(Yeah, Right, I myself find that hard to believe). The reason for that is that it operates on the surface of Market Street, using historic streetcars from different eras, mostly PCC Streetcars from the 1940s and 1950s, some bought used from Philadelphia and Newark(and some of those came from Minneapolis and Detroit. The PCC Car had good resale value), some San Francisco MUNI bought new, and others they got used from St. Louis in the old era, as well as cars from different eras, and one special historic vehicle, vintage 1912 pitches in from time to time, appropriately numbered No.1, MUNI’s first streetcar(currently undergoing repairs of electrical system). It serves alongside 2 others on the roster from the Nineteen-teens. Amazing how the PCC lasted this long, while the cars Boeing built for MUNI in the 1970s have been replaced by newer LRVs for the Market St. Subway. Go figure.
John Barelli spews:
If you’re going to use my name in a post, please state my position accurately. Your post implies that I agree with you.
Personally, I think Mr. Esser got his hand caught in the cookie jar, and also think that it is distinctly possible that both he and Mr. McKenna have violated state law.
Later posters have apparently discovered that he finally gave up his position in Mr. McKenna’s office this week.
So, the State Attorney General appears to have created a position for Mr. Esser, which he continued to fill while working full time as the head of the Washington GOP.
Of course, with Mr. Bush’s new US Attorney in place, and with Mr. McKenna being the State’s top law enforcement officer, I’m not sure how we can get anyone to look at this.
Can the Governor appoint a special prosecutor?