For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37eu8MSXdP8&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Hate-mongering anti-choice activist Randall Terry holds his own vigil of sorts for Dr. George Tilly, essentially blaming the doctor for his own brutal assassination.

“Pro-life leaders and the pro-life movement are not responsible for George Tiller’s death. George Tiller was a mass-murderer and, horrifically, he reaped what he sowed.”

Huh. Well, as long as Terry is promoting this eye for an eye school of biblical justice, perhaps the proper response to this sort of vicious terrorist attack is to take out one of the terrorist leaders in return? Maybe Terry should reap the same sort of hate and violence that he sows?

And if you think that sentiment is a little harsh, I’d be happy to discuss it further with you over a beer.  I like Guinness, and prefer my wings really hot and a little crispy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT1MhKhpqjA&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Comments

  1. 1

    spews:

    The name of the recruiting center terrorist: Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad.

    Oh, and fuck you Goldy for not making about post about this execution and terrorism.

  2. 2

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    4 thread about the killing of an abortion doctor and zero threads about recruiters being killed by a muslim terrorist.
     
    Does goldy approve of muslim terrorists killing our military in the streets of america?
     
    The silence speaks volumes.

  3. 3

    proud leftist spews:

    Mr. Terry is apparently unaware of the biblical admonition regarding judging others–do not judge others so that you not be judges. Apparently, he gets to decide the fate of others.

  4. 4

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Tiller killed over 60,000 fetuses during his career…making millions of dollars per year.
    In 2003 alone, he performed 250 illegal late-term abortions in Kansas.
    His pal Kathleen Sebelius helped him out.

    Let’s get the facts out on precisely what this guy did.

    PS–Tiller is currently on trial in front of the Judge that really matters.

  5. 5

    spews:

    Goldy’s silence over this recruiting center terrorism speaks volumes about his character. Goldy’s mother did not raise him right. Then again, maybe Goldy’s mother is a piece of slime, too. In fact, I’m sure she is.

  6. 6

    Don Key O.T. spews:

    A high testosterone level should disqualify any person from speaking or acting either pro or anti on the abortion issue. If Mr.Terry wants continue, his Crusade , I suggest someone neuter him so he can continue his quest. I had it done to my cat, and he is now much more docile.
    Neuter Mr.Terry maybe he’ll shut up….

  7. 7

    Don Key O.T. spews:

    A high testosterone level should disqualify any person from speaking or acting either pro or con on the abortion issue. If Mr.Terry wants continue, his Crusade ,I suggest someone neuter him so he can continue his quest. I had it done to my cat and he has become much more docile.
    Neuter Mr.Terry and he’ll turn into another big Pussy…..

  8. 8

    headless spews:

    Troll, maybe you are trying to change the subject. Muslim extremism is known and being effectively dealt with. The terrorist activities of the cynically named ‘pro-lifers’ is the the issue at hand.

    I am pro-life jail-terms when it comes to people who incite others to murder and then deny responsibility.

    Substitute the word ‘banker’ for abortionist in their literature and you can easily see what I mean.

    Sometimes I wish you would be silent enough to speak volumes. Interestingly enough, your garrulousness says very little of consequence.

  9. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey, I like the Mafia Rule, because it keeps the peace:

    If you whack one of ours, we’ll whack one of yours, and don’t take it personally because it’s only business.

  10. 11

    Upset spews:

    Why are y’all avoiding this subject?

    It’s clear that men violently oppose women taking their own power over their own lives.

    It’s disgusting that piggies like Mr. Terry approve of and instigate violent acts against certified doctors who are legally serving the needs of their patients.

  11. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4 You’re full of shit. The number of illegal abortions performed by Dr. Tiller in Kansas in 2003 was zero. This issue was litigated in a court of law and the doctor was acquitted on all counts. You have no authority to overrule the jury, so fuck you.

  12. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Troll, what’s your source? I have yet to see any news report identifying the shooter in the recruiting center case.

  13. 15

    YellowPup spews:

    LOL. Wow, brilliance and class act all the way both.

    He should troll for HA.org.

  14. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @16 We don’t know what his political leanings are. The CNN article only says “investigators believe there were ‘political and religious motives’ in the shooting.” It is, however, being treated as a terrorism case; the alleged shooter has been charged with 15 counts of “terrorism” for shooting at an occupied building.

  15. 18

    Blue John spews:

    I think that is wrong too. They were just doing their jobs, that they felt passionate about, like Tiller.

    Do you know, off hand, if there was a newsletter that mentioned the recruiters over 80 times, published in Ark?

  16. 19

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    I would consider any person who murdered Randall Terry in front of his own children to be a hero and a great America – ditto – any man who murdered those who agree with the terrorists on the right.

  17. 20

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    Meeting with a group of lawyers tomorrow to talk about pressuring US Attorneys to bring RICO indictments against all the right wing terrorist groups who support the killing of Dr. Tiller.

  18. 21

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    17. Roger Rabbit spews:
    @16 We don’t know what his political leanings are.

     
    Did you miss my message at #14.
     
    He’s a muslim terrorist.
     
    That makes him an enemy of republicans.
     
    Any enemy of a republican is a friend of the democrats.

  19. 22

    proud leftist spews:

    16
    Your prayers aren’t worth shit. Hating and praying don’t go together, my friend.

  20. 23

    Michael spews:

    @4

    Tiller was put on trial and judged innocent in less than an hour by a jury.

    You still seem to think that your religion has something to do with our government. It doesn’t.

    Of the 250 abortions that he performed in 2003, how many of the fetus’s were already dead or not viable?

    The #1 reason for late term dilation and extraction abortions is because the fetus has died in utero and the family wanted an intact child to bury. When the right got DX banned what they did was prevent family’s from having an intact child to grieve over and bury.

    Banning DX prevented 0 abortions from taking place and harmed grieving families.

  21. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Republican Pleads Guilty To Election Fraud

    Although terrorist shootings are dominating the headlines, not to be overlooked is the news that a Republican election official in Kentucky has pleaded guilty to participating in a multi-year election-rigging conspiracy that involved, among other things, bribing voters to vote for a Republican candidate for state legislature and manipulating touch-screen electronic voting machines.

    http://www.kentucky.com/news/s.....11016.html
    http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7188

  22. 25

    Michael spews:

    @16

    While Al Qaeda and the right to life movement don’t share a religion, they do share in the fact that they are both fundamentalists.

    It would seem that we have a problem with religious fundamentalist shooting people and blowing shit up.

  23. 26

    Michael spews:

    @21

    We don’t know what he is yet, but he’s sure looking like a fundy to me.

    Why do fundy’s have to go around screaming at people, shooting guns and blowing shit up?

  24. 27

    Blue John spews:

    @21 Any enemy of a republican is a friend of the democrats.
    Spoken like a fundamentalist conservative. This is why less and less people will follow your ideology. It’s not working and doesn’t make sense, in the real world.
    You need to change and grow up. Life is not black and white.

  25. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Times are tough at Tim Eyman Inc., too. He’s selling autographed bobbleheads on Ebay. But wait! There’s more! If you order right now, you’ll get Tim Eyman himself!

    “The highest bidder not only receives this autographed collectible “Super Eyman” bobblehead (it’s 6 1/2″ tall), but also dinner out with the infamous Tim Eyman himself. He, along with several other initiative supporters, will join you for a dinner party. The top 10 bidders will also be invited to dinner and receive photos and other memorabilia to honor your support for our initiative efforts.”

    http://tinyurl.com/kqux3t

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Eyman is a whore, and it was only a matter of time before he sold himself.

  26. 30

    Chuck spews:

    You call him a hate monger? This guy was a PROFESSIONAL baby killer. You are a father…which is worse, to espouse the truth or kill babies?

  27. 31

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @26 Another indication that the Little Rock shooter is a righty is the fact he used an assault rifle, the right’s weapon of choice, whereas liberals are more likely to ban assault rifles than own them. He looks more like a rightwing terrorist with every passing minute. I wonder if he’s one of puddy’s relatives?

  28. 32

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @30 Anytime a wingnut starts flinging around the word “truth” — watch out!!!

  29. 33

    Michael spews:

    @29

    Like it or lump it, in America shooting people is against the law. If you don’t like that maybe you should move to northern Pakistan.

  30. 34

    worf spews:

    I read the tripe at #14, which apparently marvin didn’t. From the article:

    “This individual appears to have been upset with the military, the Army in particular, and that’s why he did what he did,” Little Rock Police Lt. Terry Hastings said in a phone interview with USA TODAY. “He has converted to (Islam) here in the past few years. To be honest, we’re not completely clear on what he was upset about. He had never been in the military.”

    One nut case (regardless of political leanings) acting totally alone is not an act of terrorism, it is simply murder.
    Dr. Tiller’s killer, on the other hand, is clearly part of a larger movement, incited to act by the likes of Randall Terry and Falafel Boy.
    Again I suggest that the righties be consistent in their calls for torture and demand that Dr. Tiller’s killer be remanded to the authorities at Gitmo for enhanced interrogation to find out how much he can tell us about the right wing terrorists in our midst – the bomb may be ticking right now!!!

  31. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @34 I think Obama should tap their telephones to find out what new plots they’re hatching.

  32. 36

    Chuck spews:

    The man speaks truth, you reap what you sew, age old fact, if you choose the party lifestyle several venereal diseases await you, if you choose the gay party lifestyle more diseases await you…if you choose to kill other humans…guess what? I kind of wonder though, he was at church…possibly a holy man of his faith…how in the name of hell is he going to explain his profession

  33. 38

    worf spews:

    Interesting… There was an eight year lull in violence directed against abortion providers, which coincided with the “Presidency” of The Shrub. Now that the right wing fears it is irrelevant it is again engaging in terrorism, just as it did during the Clinton administration.

    http://crooksandliars.com/john.....ts-democra

  34. 39

    worf spews:

    Incidentally, right wing terrorism, which I predict will explode in the coming months, is the real threat to America, not al Qaeda. The most an external movement like al Qaeda can do is create havoc, which tends to have the effect of strengthening the resolve of the attacked, whereas an internal threat, such as those posed by the militia movement, anti-abortion extremists, et al., can foment civil war in the worst case scenario, or so fracture a country as to make political differences irreconcilable, leading to the eventual downfall of a nation without civil war.
    Which is the goal of the modern day right wing. Beck, Falafel boy, Savage, Malkin et al. say so every god damn day.

  35. 40

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    proud leftist–
    Here is some food for thought about abortion written by James Melton:

    Abortion Is An Act of Murder

    [Copied material deleted — see HA Comment Policy]

  36. 41

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    26. Blue John spews:
    @21 Any enemy of a republican is a friend of the democrats.
    Spoken like a fundamentalist conservative. This is why less and less people will follow your ideology. It’s not working and doesn’t make sense, in the real world.
    You need to change and grow up. Life is not black and white.

     
    I need to change and grow up?
     
    Thanks for your advice.
     
    I’ll be more like you and tell people that I disagree with that THEY have to change and grow up.
     
    And then I’ll tell them THEY need to be more tolerant of other opinions.

  37. 42

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    30. Roger Rabbit spews:
    @26 Another indication that the Little Rock shooter is a righty is the fact he used an assault rifle, the right’s weapon of choice, whereas liberals are more likely to ban assault rifles than own them.

     
    I’m guessing you are ignorant about the crips and the bloods. Democrats with assault rifles.

  38. 43

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @39: (1.) Why should any non-believer take your cheap resort to biblical rantings seriously? (2.) If abortion = murder, what should the punishment be, and who should receive it?

    Your mission, should you choose to undertake it, is not to give us more recklessly stupid or ignorant financial advice, but to overcome the inchoherence of your position on the abortion issue.

  39. 44

    Blue John spews:

    #41. Sorry, I was letting my inner conservative speak.
    I still think that your conservative “our way or die” mentality doesn’t work. Long term, it’s not a sustainable philosophy. It lasts for up to a generation or so, and then burns out the society around it. Society either turn away and embraces thinking and nuance till the crisis has past, or descends into anarchy and civil war.
    Progressives are fighting very hard to avoid the anarchy, you and your kind are willfully fanning the flames.

  40. 45

    YLB spews:

    the crips and the bloods. Democrats with assault rifles.

    Hell, sounds like they’re staunch advocates of the 2nd ammendment. That’s Republican territory.

  41. 46

    Ekim spews:

    KKKynical@40 has climed up on his pulpit again. Love the fetus and all that.

    Last time he was on his pulpit he was talking about how gun shops were running low on bricks of ammo and how people on the left should watch out.

    Of course this is classic love the fetus and kill the child thinking KKKlinical likes so much.

    Really, KKlinical, you should go back to molesting your goat herd.

  42. 47

    YLB spews:

    40 – If you don’t like abortions – DON”T HAVE ‘EM!

    Why do wingnuts hate reproductive freedom for women?

  43. 48

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    Don’t you love it when child molesters like CYNCYN pretend to be a Christian? Fuck you CYNCYN and your God and your Bible and your church. And let’s hope you all meet the same fate Dr. Tiller did.

  44. 49

    delbert spews:

    @47

    “Why do wingnuts hate reproductive freedom for women?” Because innocent children die when they are aborted?

    Just answering your question… Like I said in one of the multiple posts on this topic, I don’t have a dog in this fight.

    I do find it interesting, and somewhat telling, that Goldy et al choose to hammer on this topic and ignore the shooting of American troops by an Islamic radical. Things that don’t fit into the lefty narrative get ignored or whitewashed.

  45. 50

    YLB spews:

    47 – I’ll answer my own question:

    http://republicansexoffenders.com/

    Quite a few rapists in this list. Once a right wing fiend has his way with a woman, he demands the product of the non-consensual union be brought to term.

    It’s the only way he can justify his miserable existence.

    Pure evil.

  46. 51

    YLB spews:

    Because innocent children die when they are aborted?

    Children also die from poor health care, war, famine, disease, neglect from poor parenting – you name it.

    Once they’re out of the womb it’s open season for you sick fiends. The right wing professes a phony “right to life”.

    Like Cynical said – abortion in many opponents’ eyes encourages sin and it’s fear and paranoia of more freedoms for women that drives the right wing to distraction.

    Before legal abortion women were driven to terminate their pregnancies by illicit means – which resulted in a lot of death and motherless children. Way to advocate returning to those days right wing fools!

  47. 52

    worf spews:

    I do find it interesting, and somewhat telling, that Goldy et al choose to hammer on this topic and ignore the shooting of American troops by an Islamic radical. Things that don’t fit into the lefty narrative get ignored or whitewashed.

    Yes, you would know about ignoring things that don’t fit your narrative; again, from the article linked above:

    “This individual appears to have been upset with the military, the Army in particular, and that’s why he did what he did,” Little Rock Police Lt. Terry Hastings said in a phone interview with USA TODAY. “He has converted to (Islam) here in the past few years. To be honest, we’re not completely clear on what he was upset about. He had never been in the military.”

  48. 53

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @40 So, if a fetus is dead inside a woman’s body, and the woman will die if it isn’t aborted, you’d sacrifice her life for your ideology?

  49. 54

    YLB spews:

    I do find it interesting, and somewhat telling, that Goldy et al choose to hammer on this topic and ignore the shooting of American troops by an Islamic radical.

    Happens every day in Iraq and Afghanistan. Wonderful legacy of the gang who couldn’t interrogate straight or read an August PDB.

    Wow you really got us there right wing fool! Pat yourself on the back!

  50. 55

    YLB spews:

    These right wing extremists won’t stop until a woman is EXECUTED for trying to terminate an unwanted pregnancy.

    They want to CONTROL a woman’s body straight to the lethal injection table or better yet THE GALLOWS..

    There’s no limit to the depravity of these fiends.

  51. 57

    spews:

    You are all absolutely right to be piling on Terry and people who are talking like him. I’m pretty hacked off that so many of you knee-jerked and lumped me in with him just because I happen to be pro-life. (No one even asked me what my opinions were on abortion before assuming that I was an absolutist. Yeah, I know, “this isn’t a debate, we just like to kick wingnut ass,” but the problem is that even Effinsound has gone on record as saying I’m not a wingnut when responding to my pieces.

    I wrote today’s piece about the Tiller murder and the Little Rock shooting. We’re all going to have to deal with each other, so the time should be now to grow up and start communicating.

  52. 58

    HappyHeathen spews:

    I expect Randal Terry will be on Glen Beck’s show in short order. I can see it now, a big tear fest and a call to arms to take our country back from ‘them’. The right wing nuts are simply amazing aren’t they?

  53. 59

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    @58,

    Yeah, just as bad as the left wing nuts. We in the middle are constantly watch the outliers battle back and forth in a never-ending war of bad ideas.

  54. 62

    Jerry Falwell spews:

    I don’t recall Goldy being this incensed when he was making up silly poems like “Falwell that ends well” at his fellow hate site Huffpo following my death.

    …and I didn’t even assist in the Infanticide of thousands of children like Dr. Tiller did. The title to this thread post is most apropos in this case.

  55. 63

    Don Joe spews:

    Bryan @ 57

    I fin this attempt by folks on the right, like you, to equate both the Dr. Tiller and Little Rock incidents most disturbing. From the post you linked:

    It is shameful, however, that Obama did not take a moment Monday to issue an equivalent statement of moderation to elements within the American Muslim community who might claim solidarity with the Little Rock shooter.

    Elements who might claim solidarity? Sorry, but we know who claims solidarity with the Dr. Tiller shooter. You named one of them. We’ve seen their rhetoric, and the connection between that rhetoric and Dr. Tiller’s death is not at all tenuous.

    How you can equate that with unnamed, American Muslims who just “might” claim solidarity with the Little Rock shooter is beyond the comprehension of any sane human being. You are being as presumptuous about the views of American Muslims as have been the comments here about your own views on abortion.

    If that kind of presumptuous painting with very broad strokes of the rhetorical brush is wrong when you’re the one being painted, then why is it not equally wrong when you’re the one doing the painting?

    Better yet, why not simply denounce religiously motivated extremism wherever we might find it, and whatever form it takes? Politics from the pulpit is the problem here.

  56. 66

    Daddy Love spews:

    4 Cyn

    Let’s get the facts out on precisely what this guy did.

    “What this guy did” was provide legal, Constitionally protected medical services to women in dire need. Wommen who were for some strange reason unwilling to bring to term fetuses with condition such as anencephaly, Trisomy 13, 18, and 21, polycystic kidney disease, spina bifida, hydrocephalus, Potter’s syndrome, lethal dwarfism, holoprosencephaly, anterior and posterior encephalocele, or non-immune hydrops.

    “This guy” was murdered by one of the shock troops of a movement that seeks to obtain at the point of a gun what they never could through our courts under our Cantituion, and to force women to give birth to dead, terminally malformed, or hopelessly compromised infants.

    I’m sure the movement thanks you for your support.

  57. 67

    Daddy Love spews:

    The difference between the recruiting center shooting and Tiller’s, if it REALLY fucking needs to be pointed out, is the two grunts who were shot were not personally the target of a two-decades-long campaign of terror, bombings, Internet incitement, and previous shootings, which in turn linked to a nationwide network of organizations that similarly incited and encouraged OTHER shootings, bombings, murders, and maimings, as well as funding the perps after the fact of their crimes (Eric Rudolph a case in point).

  58. 68

    Don Joe spews:

    DL @ 67

    There is one other significant difference. There is a strong political connection between the pro-life movement and the Republican Party. There is no similar connection between Islam and the Democratic Party.

  59. 69

    worf spews:

    Demo Kid at effin’ unsound nails it:

    According to conservatives, Obama’s tenuous connection with a former terrorist (who never killed anyone) cast doubt upon his character. If that’s true, what are we supposed to think when conservatives incite domestic terrorists that actually kill people, and then they try to avoid the responsibility for their actions?

    To which I will again add my call to righties to be intellectually consistent, (I know, I know) and demand that Mr. Roeder be sent to a black ops site for immediate “enhanced interrogation” to find out what he knows.

  60. 70

    L. Mr Fudd spews:

    @ 69~ only one problem with Demo childs analysis.

    There was no “conservative [that] incite domestic terrorists [to] actually kill people”.

    That’s just ignorance being spewed.

    Of course, if you’d like to present some evidence rather than reposting an emotional argument, feel free to do so. Otherwise, yours and demokid’s emotional arguments fail on merit. The actions of one mentally unstable person in a state with other known mentally unstable people (Fred Phelps group- which hate conservatives), to blame anyone but Dr. Tiller through his actions and his killer through his motivations and actions, there is no other contributing factor in this murder case. Turn the page, kids.

  61. 71

    spews:

    @67 : DL, it is amazing how often you actually make the point you’re trying to dismiss when you lay out your well-organized argument.

    The difference between the recruiting center shooting and Tiller’s, if it REALLY fucking needs to be pointed out, is the two grunts who were shot were not personally the target of a two-decades-long campaign of terror, bombings, Internet incitement, and previous shootings, which in turn linked to a nationwide network of organizations that similarly incited and encouraged OTHER shootings, bombings, murders, and maimings, as well as funding the perps after the fact of their crimes (Eric Rudolph a case in point).

    You’re right. There has been a campaign waged by radical anti-abortion wackos. Did you ever hear me deny that?

    But to conclude that a shooting by a radical Muslim, who received indoctrination in jihadism in the terrorist hotbed of Yemen, and was being watched by teh FBI, is not a part of a three-decades-long campaign of terror, bombings, Internet incitement, and previous shootings, hijacking, mass shootings, flying planes into buildings, assassinations, et al.

    The difference between you and I, is that I’m not willing to the as yet irrational leap to claim that a connection exists between Roeder and the national anti-abortion movement. Neither will I claim that Muhammad is working with international groups. Additional details may become available, at which time I will adjust my statements.

    I suspect that the reason you and Goldy and the others here won’t denounce the Little Rock shooting is that you sympathize with the act and possibly find some comfort in it having taken place. I can’t conclude anything else, because instead of denouncing it in the way I routinely denounced the Tiller murder, you are attacking me, again. It’s a nice diversion, but if you don’t stand for murdering soldiers, you need to stand up and say so, FIRST. None of you have done that.

    Your ideology is blinding you.

    @69 If you step outside of this black hole and read the comments of conservative on other websites, there are many who do call for Roeder to be aggressively interrogated to determine if he is working with a larger organization. Get your facts straight before you go incorrectly characterizing entire groups of people. Keep it up and soon you’ll be roaming the streets screaming obscenities at Nixon’s ghost.

  62. 72

    Daddy Love spews:

    Is there really a big difference between Al Qaeda urging Muslims to atack the US and organizations made up of so-called “Christian” Americans within the US waging a campaign to, while maintaining what Nixon’s people called “plausible deniability,” incite the freaks among us to kill and destroy medical practitioners in the legal course of their work and terrorize millions of women who want nothing more sinister than medical care.

    IMHO, we should put as many resources as we do against Al Qaeda to investigate, infiltrate, try, and convict those who are working to subvert our Constitution and the rule of law within our own country.

  63. 73

    Rujax! spews:

    THIS is why I love wingnuts sooooo much:

    I suspect that the reason you and Goldy and the others here won’t denounce the Little Rock shooting is that you sympathize with the act and possibly find some comfort in it having taken place. I can’t conclude anything else, because instead of denouncing it in the way I routinely denounced the Tiller murder, you are attacking me, again. It’s a nice diversion, but if you don’t stand for murdering soldiers, you need to stand up and say so, FIRST. None of you have done that.

    These beautifully insane leaps of logic…they are so…so…perfect in their illogic…

    …kind of like when you’re walking down the street and you hear somebody ranting to themselves and their invisible audience. Yeah…kind of like that.

  64. 74

    Daddy Love spews:

    Now BM would ahve us believe that it is “irrational” to suspect that there is a link between the fact of groups screaming in public, on television (O’Reilly amng others), in direct mail, on flyers, and on the Internet about the “blood on the hands” of this gentle physician whom they call a “mass murderer” and a person who has been in contact with such groups who eventually commits a “propaganda of the deed” killing on behalf of their ends.

    So now 2 + 2 = irrational

    You see, maybe there IS a link between the actions of the Army shooter and stateless international radical Muslim terrosists and their propaganda. But we don’t let those guys go on TV here. How many interviews with Randall Terry were conducted in which he reminded us all YET AGAIN that in his opinion Tiller was a murderer (he wasn’t) and that he had “blood on his hands” (he didn’t.

  65. 75

    worf spews:

    70 – Conservatives incite acts of violence each and every day over the airwaves. Malkin, O’Reilly, Savage, Beck and others are given carte blanche to spew eliminationist rhetoric that paints a target on the back of everyone they disagree with. As to this particular case, the connections between Roeder and “mainstream” pro-life organizations is becoming clear; from Dailykos:

    From the AP, we learn more about domestic terrorist Scott Roeder, his family and his acquaintances, including more statements from figures we have already heard from:

    Some anti-abortion activists said they were familiar with Roeder. Regina Dinwiddie, a protester in the Kansas City area, said she had picketed a Planned Parenthood clinic with Roeder. She said she was “glad” about Tiller’s death.

    Dinwiddie, you may recall, was one who witnessed Roeder threatening a doctor in 1996 but did nothing, earning a hug from Roeder. She is less than heartbroken now, it seems.

    And here’s another comment from Dave Leach, who met Roeder when Leach was visiting with Shelley Shannon, who was convicted of shooting Dr. Tiller in both arms in 1993:

    Dave Leach, publisher of the magazine Prayer and Action News, said he met Roeder about 15 years ago. A decade ago, Roeder subscribed to the quarterly magazine, which is published in Iowa and has said “justifiable homicide” against abortion providers can be supported, Leach said.

    “Scott is not my hero in that sense; he has not inspired me to shoot an abortionist,” Leach said in an e-mail. “But definitely, he will be the hero to thousands of babies who will not be slain because Scott sacrificed everything for them.”

    So we know Leach will not be shooting abortionists himself — but he considers Roeder “a hero to thousands of babies”, and says that “Scott sacrificed” for them. What a guy.

    As reported earlier, when he was arrested after the murder, Roeder was found with the name and phone number of Operation Rescue’s Cheryl Sullenger on the dashboard of his car. Sullenger is herself a felon convicted of conspiring to bomb an abortion clinic in 1988: she is a “Senior Policy Advisor” at Operation Rescue (leading to the obvious question of what such a person is doing in such a role with a group that has made a very, very vocal point in the last 24 hours of claiming to deplore such violence.)

    Already, the most virulent of anti-abortion forces are asserting the killer was a lone nut, and one that should not reflect on them; that depends, however, on your definition of “lone”. Right now there are still plenty of questions, and few answers, but the tightness of the most violent elements of the anti-abortion movement surrounding Dr. Tiller certainly seems noteworthy.

    Consider the connections we already are aware of. We know that Dr. Tiller’s previous shooter, Dr. Tiller’s future murderer, and a man who actively endorsed the notion that murdering doctors like George Tiller would be God’s will all had previously met and communicated with each other. We know that Roeder, previously arrested for possession of bomb materials, had not “recently” talked to Sullenger, herself convicted for conspiring to bomb a California clinic — but that caveat, “recently”, seems to confirm that they did talk to each other. We know Roeder had frequent visitors to his home for apparent “religious gatherings”; he was far from isolated.

    It seems that Roeder fairly swam in a sea of anti-abortion ex-felons and their supporters, all of whom are even now making unconvincing condemnations of his acts at best, and openly cheering the assassination at worst. The extent to which violent figures within the movement know each other and interact seems worthy of substantive investigation. Perhaps it will prevent the next murder, one which no doubt will also be called an “isolated act.”

  66. 76

    L. Mr Fudd spews:

    72. Daddy Love spews:
    Is there really a big difference between Al Qaeda urging Muslims to atack the US and organizations made up of so-called “Christian” Americans within the US waging a campaign to, while maintaining what Nixon’s people called “plausible deniability,” incite the freaks among us to kill and destroy medical practitioners in the legal course of their work and terrorize millions of women who want nothing more sinister than medical care.

    Sorry DL, your emotional arguments fail on merit. There are no conservative groups calling for inciting what you claim. Quit assigning blame to a group when this was done by one man motivated by whatever reason to kill an equally mentally imbalanced doctor that committed thousands of infanticides.

    I won’t lose a wink of sleep over either one of them to tell you the truth.

  67. 77

    Daddy Love spews:

    Oh, and BM:

    …a radical Muslim, who received indoctrination in jihadism in the terrorist hotbed of Yemen…

    No, he was arrested in Yemen for trying to enter the country using a Somali passport.

    Abdulhakim Muhammad is yet another example of how, by invadinig Iraq with no reason and inflaming the Middle East, GW Bush created more terrorists and made us LESS safe.

  68. 78

    Daddy Love spews:

    When he was arrested after Tiller’s murder, Roeder was found with the name and phone number of Operation Rescue’s Cheryl Sullenger on the dashboard of his car. Sullenger is herself a felon convicted of conspiring to bomb an abortion clinic in 1988. Right now, she is a “Senior Policy Advisor” at Operation Rescue.

    But it of course it would be irrational of me to thin that there is a connection.

  69. 79

    Daddy Love spews:

    BM

    doctor that committed thousands of infanticides

    And so you join the inciters. If the doctor is guilty of infanticide, inform a prosecutor. They can arrest him, try him based on the evidence and the law, and convict him if it is warranted.

    But you won’t, because know fucking well that the man never committed “infanticide” in his life, and your opinion to the contrary does not make it true. Your holding this opinion in opposition to the facts sounds irrational to me.

    In fact, your false and intentionally deceptive propaganda just muddies the waters in an attempt to inflame opinion against ths man and his profession. You’re part of the problem, pal, and we’re coming for you too. Watch out for the FBI.

  70. 80

    Daddy Love spews:

    What does the “lone” in “lone nut” mean?

    We know that Dr. Tiller’s previous shooter, Dr. Tiller’s future murderer, and a man who actively endorsed the notion that murdering doctors like George Tiller would be God’s will all had previously met and communicated with each other. We know that Roeder, previously arrested for possession of bomb materials, had not “recently” talked to Sullenger, herself convicted for conspiring to bomb a California clinic — but that caveat, “recently”, seems to confirm that they did talk to each other. We know Roeder had frequent visitors to his home for apparent “religious gatherings”; he was far from isolated.

    It seems that Roeder fairly swam in a sea of anti-abortion ex-felons and their supporters, all of whom are even now making unconvincing condemnations of his acts at best, and openly cheering the assassination at worst. The extent to which violent figures within the movement know each other and interact seems worthy of substantive investigation. Perhaps it will prevent the next murder, one which no doubt will also be called an “isolated act.”

    Excerpted under Fair Use from http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....of-Support

    read the rest.

  71. 81

    worf spews:

    71 – Please provide links to all the conservatives you say are calling for the rendition and torture of Scott Roeder.

  72. 82

    Don Joe spews:

    Bryan @ 71

    Your continued ability to see the motes in other people’s eyes while failing to see the one in your own is taking on epic proportions. Let’s see:

    You’re right. There has been a campaign waged by radical anti-abortion wackos. Did you ever hear me deny that?

    But, later:

    I suspect that the reason you and Goldy and the others here won’t denounce the Little Rock shooting is that you sympathize with the act and possibly find some comfort in it having taken place.

    Got it. We’re not supposed to read anything into the absence of a specific denial from you, you’re free to read into the absence of specific denials from the people with whom you disagree.

    In the mean time, you continue to ignore valid points of distinction between these two incidents: most notably the fact that the pro-life movement, in all its forms, has specific connections to the Republican Party while Islamic Jihadism has no similar connections to any political party in the United States.

    Are liberals and Democrats to be held accountable for a failure to engage in a witch hunt of American Muslims who “might” be sympathetic to jihadism just so they can denounce a connection that doesn’t exist?

    When you say of other people, “Your ideology is blinding you,” how can you be so sure that you’re not seeing the mote in your own eye?

  73. 83

    L. Mr Fudd spews:

    And so you join the inciters.

    haha, nope. Just getting down to the reality of the matter.

    But you won’t, because know well that the man never committed “infanticide” in his life, and your opinion to the contrary does not make it true.

    Hmmm I wonder why they call that human in an ultrasound a fetus, baby or infant. 3rd trimester abortion is most certainly infanticide whether it comports with your politics or not.

    In fact, your false and intentionally deceptive propaganda just muddies the waters in an attempt to inflame opinion against ths man and his profession.

    I guess Josef Mengele just had a “profession” as well, right Daddy Love? Talk about deceptive propaganda, you’re the master of it here at HA.

    You’re part of the problem, pal, and we’re coming for you too. Watch out for the FBI.

    For what? stating a fact on a blog? Hardly.

    Liberal fascism is alive and well here at HA.

  74. 84

    Jason Eckelman spews:

    @ 83 – I’ve never so been terrified of my own country men as I am right now. How long before you people start rounding up your enemies and liquidating them? Jesus, this country is un-fucking-believeable. And you want to talk about “liberal fascism”? How many liberals walk into churches and shoot people? I’ve never been a big supporter of gun rights, but I’m starting to wonder if I was wrong. Maybe we, as liberals, really need to start being cognizant of the need to protect ourselves from psychotic domestic terrorists. Jesus.

  75. 85

    L. Mr Fudd spews:

    I’ve never so been terrified of my own country men as I am right now.

    Why? Simply because one mental patient killed another equally mentally imbalanced physician that performed highly questionable practices that generated alot of emotional sentiment on both sides?

    We are talking about 1 persons actions, not an entire movement as much as the many mouth- breathers would here would have you believe.

    Quit your hyperventilating and mock outrage already. As I said above, I won’t lose a wink of sleep over either of these two reprobates.

  76. 86

    Rujax! spews:

    THIS is what Dr. Tiller did.

    THIS is why you ignorant bastards are so despicable:

    Mercy Abortions: What Dr. Tiller Did
    by annrose
    Share this on Twitter – Mercy Abortions: What Dr. Tiller Did Tue Jun 02, 2009 at 09:46:20 AM PDT
    Reposted from 7/6/08. I have been too distressed to write a new Diary on my friend Dr. Tiller. But, many people have asked me to repost this Diary written last year that explains late abortion. It had 526 comments and was on the Recommended list. Carry on.

    Fewer than 2200/year or 0.2% of the 1.3 million abortions performed yearly are past 24 weeks. But, the anti-abortion propagandists have successfully maligned procedures at this stage of pregnancy by calling them “Partial Birth Abortions” (not a medical term, but a political one). Even pro-choice Democrats don’t understand the reality of late abortion.

    I call abortions past 24 weeks Mercy Abortions…and I’ll tell you why.

    More below the fold.

    annrose’s diary :: ::
    For 14 years, I worked at Midtown Hospital in Atlanta, a woman’s hospital specializing in late abortion. The hospital opened in 1977 because at that time, Georgia law mandated that an abortion past 12 weeks had to be performed in a hospital. Abortion had just been made legal in 1973 and it became the first procedure to be widely performed on an outpatient basis.

    Let me repeat that: Early abortion was the first medical procedure to be widely performed on an outpatient basis. That means that medical professionals performing abortions invented outpatient health care in this country.

    But, abortions past 12 weeks were still rare and very few hospitals would allow them to be performed.

    At that time, there were 2 types of procedures for abortions:

    Vacuum aspiration performed from about 7 weeks until 12 weeks.
    Saline induction abortions performed from about 16 weeks to 24 weeks.
    So, you can see that there was a gap where women couldn’t get abortions from 12 weeks until 16 weeks. That meant that a woman who was 13 weeks pregnant had to wait 3 weeks before she could get an abortion. Then she had to undergo what is essentially a medically induced miscarriage.

    As abortion medical professionals matured and were able to openly discuss options and medical procedures and medicines and investigate problems, procedures became more refined. Now, induction type abortions have been pretty much eliminated, and more sophisticated procedures involving instrumentation and general anesthesia and abortifacent drugs have made abortion even more safe and accessible and comfortable for women throughout all stages of pregnancy…early to late.

    And, let me add a few more things about the evolution of abortion in this country.

    Abortion was the first widely performed outpatient procedure.
    Abortion procedures have barely tripled in price from the early 70’s. In the 70’s an early abortion was about $150. Now they are about $400. Name any other medical procedure that’s only tripled in cost in the past 35 years. You can’t.
    Abortion clinics were some of the first medical providers to mandate informed consent. And the consent is very detailed, unlike the general consent you sign in a hospital.
    Abortion clinics were some of the first medical providers to openly advertise directly to consumers.
    Abortion is one of the safest medical procedures performed. It’s 8-12 times safer than childbirth. The mortality rate is very low.
    I could go on and on, but want to now focus on Mercy Abortions. These are abortions past 24 weeks.

    Who are the women who delay into the second and third trimester? There are several characteristics:

    In general, they are younger.
    They are less educated.
    They are more rural, where healthcare is more inaccessible.
    They tend to be poorer than women who get early abortions.
    And they have more lifestyle and emotional issues. Oftentimes, the unintended pregnancy is the easiest of their problems to solve.
    Now, I’m sure your first concern is Why. Why would a woman wait so long? Here’s a few of the many reasons why women delay getting abortions:

    Money. Many women don’t have $400 sitting around in a savings account to pay for an early abortion. Delay happens in raising the money, borrowing it, pawning stuff for it, etc.
    Denial. Many young women especially so want not to be pregnant that they deny their obvious symptoms of pregnancy and attribute them to other causes. They’re missing their period because they’re irregular. They’re gaining wait because they’ve been eating too much. They’ve got the flu. Many young women even hide their pregnancies from their parents with big baggy shirts, fake periods, etc.
    Fetal anomalies.
    I’m going to discuss Fetal anomalies in detail because this is the number one reason women get abortions past 24 weeks.

    That’s why I call them Mercy Abortions.

    One of the largest providers of late abortions, Dr. George Tiller in Wichita KS, has been the object of harassing investigations by Kansas authorities, culminating in an unprecedented Grand Jury trial prompted by anti-abortionists. He was just recently vindicated and the Grand Jury refused to bring charges. But, his detractors won’t stop, and more harassment is anticipated.

    Another major provider of late abortions is Dr. Warren Hern in Boulder CO.

    Both of these doctors are extremely compassionate and committed medical professionals. I’ve been to both clinics and have known them personally and can attest to their credibility as both doctors and humane individuals.

    Without a doubt, the number one reason for abortions past 24 weeks is the late discovery of a fetal anomaly incompatible with life. I’ve talked with many women who find themselves in this situation and it is always an extremely difficult and heart wrenching situation. Many women even underwent infertility treatments to become pregnant. But, when the pregnancy goes horribly awry, a Mercy Abortion is the best solution in a no-win situation. These are women who need abortion more than many others. Therefore, it’s ironic that they are the ones being punished by focusing on the procedures that are life saving for them.

    One of the reasons for this is that many of these anomalies aren’t apparent in pregnancy until the later stages. Also, most women get a sonogram paid for by insurance in the early weeks of pregnancy, but don’t get another one until well after 20-22 weeks.

    Imagine if you can that you are happily carrying a baby that you’ve wanted all your life. You’ve had the baby showers and decorated the room already. Then comes the devastating news that the baby is anencephalic. That means that the baby has no brain and will die a horrible death shortly after birth.

    The Prognosis:

    There is no cure or standard treatment for anencephaly and the prognosis for affected individuals is poor. Most anencephalic babies do not survive birth, accounting for 55% of non-aborted cases. If the infant is not stillborn, then he or she will usually die within a few hours or days after birth from cardiorespiratory arrest.

    In almost all cases anencephalic infants are not aggressively resuscitated since there is no chance of the infant ever achieving a conscious existence. Instead, the usual clinical practice is to offer hydration, nutrition and comfort measures and to “let nature take its course”. Artificial ventilation, surgery (to fix any co-existing congenital defects), and drug therapy (such as antibiotics) are usually regarded as futile efforts. Clinicians and medical ethicists may view the provision of nutrition and hydration as medically futile. Occasionally some may even go one step further to argue that euthanasia is morally and clinically appropriate in such cases.

    You’re 28 weeks along and the OB/GYN that’s been caring for you can’t help you out. You see, the hospital where he practices will gladly take your money and let you give birth there, but they won’t let your OB/GYN perform a Mercy Abortion on you so that you can maintain your fertility for future pregnancies and lessen the devastation on you and your family by ending the pregnancy now.

    Oh no. The powers that be want you to carry that anencephalic baby for 10 more weeks, then give birth, then slowly watch it die right in front of your eyes. Now, if that’s how you want to handle the situation, fine. But, if you’d like a more merciful ending to this tragic situation, a trip to Dr. Tiller or Dr. Hern might be in order. For now, that is.

    You say. “This is just an isolated instance.” Oh no… this scenario is played out every day. And many of the families that this happens to are anti-abortion. But, at that moment where they are told that the pregnancy is flawed, many choose the Mercy Abortion to alleviate their suffering and the suffering of their child.

    Mercy Abortions are also extremely necessary in maintaining the woman’s fertility so that a successful pregnancy can be possible in the future.

    So, as Democrats committed to pro-choice values, let’s not jump into the Rovian trap that the anti-abortion framing has given us on late abortions. They demonized a procedure that mercifully saves women and promotes healthy families. It may be you or someone in your family that needs a Mercy Abortion in the future.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyo.....Tiller-Did

    Not that it will make any difference to a bunch of closed-minded homocidal maniacs like you all.

  77. 87

    L. Mr Fudd spews:

    ::yawn::

    @ 86: Not that it will make any difference to a bunch of closed-minded homocidal (sic) maniacs like you all.

    hmmm yes, more hperventilating hyperbole please, Rujax!