Follow the money to Brownie’s sham defense

Yesterday I mentioned an Arizona Republic article that documents former FEMA chief Mike Brown’s rocky, litigation strewn tenure at the International Arabian Horse Association, and the “sham” legal defense fund that eventually led to his resignation. In an open letter to Brownie’s attorney, Andy Lester, Darryl at Hominid Views focuses on a part of the story I’ve pretty much ignored thus far: what exactly happened to the money in the fund? Darryl writes:

You and I know that Brownie was more than happy to add the following clause to section III paragraph I of the separation agreement between Brown and the IAHA, “[b]y October 1, 2000, Mr. Brown will cause to be contributed from the Michael D. Brown Legal Defense Fund Trust to the IAHA Legal Defense Fund the sum of $25,000.”

The only thing that puzzles me, Mr. Lester, is that it appears you took the money instead. It is probably just malicious misreporting by the liberal media when The Arizona Republic reports that:

Brown’s resignation agreement called for him to turn over the balance of the defense fund, which then totaled $25,000. Although a public accounting has not been given, Lester said the balance went to him in payment for legal services.

Don’t worry, Andy, even if you did take the money and run, I don’t think anyone will really notice. I mean, who would really connect the dots that the person who wrote an impassioned and indignant defense of Brownie, citing that he is “good, honest, compassionate, [and a] competent leader” could possibly be the same person who screwed the IAHA out of $25,000?

I’m not exactly sure what “the balance” refers to, but despite the fact that he was indemnified by the IAHA, Brown raised much more than $25,000 for his private legal defense, including a single $50,000 donation from one of the wealthy breeders who had a stake in his actions as commissioner. I have received emails from several IAHA members who have questioned whether Brown actually pocketed much of this money, though nobody has evidence one way or the other, as there has been no public accounting.

But as Darryl points out, the only person we know for sure to have profited from this “sham” fund was Brown’s attorney, Andy Lester. Which I guess made him the perfect, objective observer to defend Brown (and impugn my reporting) on the pages of Accuracy in Media. Uh-huh.

Comments

  1. 3

    Janet S spews:

    Michael Brown oversaw FEMA during the last 8-9 hurricanes. Why did this one go so wrong? Could it be that most of the rest were in states with Republican governors, that actually had a clue of what they were doing?

    This is starting to look more like piling on, rather than investigative reporting.

  2. 4

    Curious George spews:

    RE: @1 & @2 –

    Ditto…

    The man was/is an incompetnent (sp?) boob. Been there…. Done that….

  3. 5

    Mark spews:

    Janet S — are you comparing Katrina with the past 8-9 hurricanes? Those 8-9 hurricanes would be the ones that completely destroyed which large US cities? You are one dumb chick.
    Mark

  4. 6

    headless lucy spews:

    The point eludes these first four irresponsible wacko Republicans because to them acquiring money in a shady, dishonest and/or illegal manner is second nature. Mentioning that Michael Brown may well be guilty of that is not an issue with them. Yearight pithily noes that perhaps Goldy has , “…way too much spare time….” Mr. Cynical is overwhelmed with sham befuddlement: ” Goldy- Where are you going with this?”, he writes. Janet S. has some righty talking points that she’s so eagar to get out there that she doesn’t seem to notice that her comment is jarringly out of whack with the topic of Goldy’s post.
    “Ditto…”, Curious Boob avers. Wonder where he got that word from?

  5. 7

    Curious George spews:

    “‘Ditto…’ Curious Boob avers. Wonder where he got that word from?”

    Try the dictionary….

    Generally I agree with Lucy. But this time I think that it’s way off its meds.

  6. 9

    MIchael spews:

    I was just wondering if this Brown guy can’t do the job then where was his boss, Yeah The wonderful W. It seems that the President is responsible to make sure that his people on the job are competent or was he asleep like his FEMA director.

  7. 10

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    dickless lucky–@8
    Is this how you speak to the kids at the Seattle Public Schools???
    No wonder Bellevue is way, way ahead in test results for way, way less money.
    The schools need to fire people like you…even though you are only a janitor. You have obviously eaten way too many urinal biscuits!

  8. 11

    horse whisperer spews:

    3.)

    It seems that some lately have been reporting that there might have been a few problems in Florida last year. It’s being alledged that fema spent some money in florida counties that were not hit by last years hurricanes, like over 30 million in one unscathed county. I can’t remember the links but one could google it.

  9. 12

    headless lucy spews:

    The mission statement of the Bellevue district reads thusly:
    “Our mission is to provide every student with a top-of-the-line college preparatory education.”

    This is a fine sentiment but it is also complete BS.
    Wanna debate me on this one, smarty pants?

  10. 14

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Neither is spending weeks “teaching” to the WASL.

    God, I’m so glad our last remaining child in school does not have to take that joke… or spend any time on it whatsoever.

  11. 16

    spews:

    Free our parents and kids. Vouchers now. It is fummy how the left want choice in killing babies and invalids but not for school children and their parents.

  12. 17

    Puddybud spews:

    @14: And you do what in school? What is your mission in life besides confusing Seattle School chirren?

    You know I had a Rabbitt sighting. That was the spelling on the blue truck license plate driven by a woman with a man in the passenger seat. I wonder????

  13. 21

    dj spews:

    Sorry Rufus, I’m not a Democrat.

    But, it seems to me that Clinton’s lawyer knew precisely what “is” means. He interperted “is” as referencing the present tense. Apparently, it was Star who improperly “expanded” the meaning to past tense.

    Star must have been home schooled, as well. :-)

  14. 22

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    dj—
    Whoa pardener….
    Anyway you slice it, Clinton got his dick sucked by a fat chick that certainly wasn’t his wife, in the White House.
    And Clinton was less than forth-COMING about that blowjob!!!!!
    Perhaps if Clinton had pursued Bin Laden and Al Quada as aggressively as that cottage-cheese cellulite riddled piece of ass, we wouldn’t be where we are today!!

  15. 23

    dj spews:

    Mr Cynical,

    “Anyway you slice it, Clinton got his dick sucked by a fat chick that certainly wasn’t his wife, in the White House.
    And Clinton was less than forth-COMING about that blowjob!!!!!”

    He sure did. I guess we could agree that in some ways he was forth-coming and in otherways not.

    “Perhaps if Clinton had pursued Bin Laden and Al Quada as aggressively as that cottage-cheese cellulite riddled piece of ass, we wouldn’t be where we are today!!”

    In fact, Clinton was pretty obsessed with terrorism. I think it is fair to say that Clinton did more to actually reduce terrorism in the world than any other president before or after. (Shrub, on the other hand, has done more to breed terrorists than any president in history).

    And Clinton did so without deficit spending!

  16. 25

    Michael spews:

    @5 Janet S – are you comparing Katrina with the past 8-9 hurricanes? Those 8-9 hurricanes would be the ones that completely destroyed which large US cities?

    So who does have experience in managing the response to storms that could flatten a city? You say that Brown didn’t, but did anyone really? This wasn’t your everyday storm.

  17. 26

    horse whisperer spews:

    22.)

    Well, at least even with all the fun Clinton was having in the oval office, he still had enough blood left in his head to appoint an experienced person to Fema. Granted we don’t have that particulary ‘brain drain’ activity going on with Bush. So what’s his excuse?

  18. 27

    dj spews:

    Michael,

    “So who does have experience in managing the response to storms that could flatten a city? You say that Brown didn’t, but did anyone really? This wasn’t your everyday storm.”

    Right, but the same can be said for 9/11–it was an unprecidented attack that went beyond the scope of any playbook. In that case, a number of individuals rose to the occasion, took action that was “outside of the box,” and made unprecidented decisions.

    I do believe that Brown did “everything he could.” The problem is that Brown is a lawyer. As a lawyer-friend of mine (who is well known here on HA) has said a number of times, “lawyers are trained to focus on proper process, not results.”

    Brown, no doubt, focused heavily on process, and that worked pretty well for him in previous emergencies, where he could pull out a scenario playbook and ensure his staff was following procedures. It worked because previous emergencies were not regional disasters involving multiple states, and disabled local governments (e.g. N.O. government which had to abandon its building and operate out of a hotel without electricity, internet, land-lines and with minimal communications capabilities).

    The nature of this disaster required creative thinking, a focus on outcomes over proper process, and required FEMA to step up its role to compensate for the disabled local governments and the multi-state nature of the disaster. Brown didn’t understand that, and based on what I heard of his testimony before congress, he still doesn’t “get it.”

    Essentially, once the scope of a disaster fell outside of the “off the shelf” FEMA playbooks (with plays developed by experts in disaster management), Brown was, in essence, a “deer in the headlights.” He had no practical disaster management experience from which he could draw (besides following the plays developed by others); and, his lawyerly training resulted in him trying to make the disaster fit the playbook, where he could follow the checklists in complete comfort.

    That is why a FEMA director ought to have on-the-ground disaster management experience. It is easy to find somebody who can follow the procedure and handle 98% of emergencies. But, what is really needed is someone who has the instincts and training to deal with the 2% of situations that fall outside the box.

  19. 28

    hardovertoport spews:

    Rufus@16: I don’t mind supporting a public school system – I think that is a public responsibility. However, why should you get a voucher in addition to that, you fucking suckoff freeloader? I can’t imagine that any swill from your loins would be educable, but if you want to try and educate them somewhere else than the public schools we already support go right ahead – but pay for it yourself.

  20. 29

    NoWonder spews:

    hardovertoport @ 27

    ‘..why should you get a voucher in addition to that…’

    Not in addition to, but as a part of public education. Why should there only be one way to implement “public” education?

  21. 31

    Janet S spews:

    dj – I have to agree with your assessment. The task called for inspired leadership, and Brown wasn’t it. FEMA has always been known to be a poorly managed agency that handed out more money than could be accounted for, even under prior administrations.

    My point is that Michael Brown has resigned, and lessons have been learned. I am failing to see the point of Goldy’s line of questioning what happened in his prior job in the private sector. That seems to be an issue for the members of IAHA. Frankly, I don’t care. It just isn’t relevant.

  22. 32

    Janet S spews:

    Lucy @12:
    I miss your point. Yes, Bellevue’s goal is to prepare it’s students for college. Isn’t that supposed to be a good thing? High expectations, and all that?

    The district has found that as the curriculum gets more challenging, the drop-out rate goes down. Students who were labeled as underachievers learn they can rise to the occasion.

    I guess Seattle’s goal is to turn out a bunch of illiterate grocery store baggers.

  23. 33

    hardovertoport spews:

    Public funds should not go to private benefit. Vouchers are just another tax. Vouchers are an attempt to privatize public education. What is likely to happen is the reverse: the publicizing of private schools. Private schools could not deliver what they deliver if they had to deliver the same mandates as public schools – quality would go down, and then what choice would you have? Quality differences in our public schools, especially in urban areas, has always been an issue. Public schools HAVE to take all students. Let private schools do the same. If vouchers are to be considered, then I propose the following: Vouchers only for marginal students – let the private schools deal with the marginal students and take the burden off public schools in that way, (since they do such a great job) and let the district offer the private school a voucher for every marginal student they handle; But vouchers for parents to send their children to private school? NO. If they don’t like the school their child is going to, they need to get more involved in a constructive way. But I’m not about to underwrite their parental responsibilities.

  24. 34

    spyder spews:

    from reading this thread i can only surmise that Lester the molester(well actually not THAT one) took the money and gave it to the Bellevue schools rather than the Seatlle schools and Brownie determined the ethical rules for determining success and failure on the standardized achievement testing formulas and somewhere a group of people enjoy calling each other names not unlike the kids on the middle school playgrounds enjoy doing almost as much as Clinton liked someone sucking his cigars… is that about it???

  25. 36

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    Mark1 @ 24

    “the poor dumb slop resigned. What more do you want? Give it up already. ”

    Goldy’s got to cling to his fame as long as possible, since even he knows this is likely the zenith of his career.

  26. 37

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    dickless lucy—12 & 13–
    Your idea of success is HIGHER COST…LOWER RESULTS!
    Great! It isn’t your money…you are a bottom-feeder sucking something out of the system with ZERO results.
    Loocy’s idea of success is to prepare minority kids to be angry at whitey and have kids out-of-wedlock.
    Seattle is a screaming success loocy….NOT!

  27. 38

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Goldy’s got to cling to his fame as long as possible, since even he knows this is likely the zenith of his career. -Comment by ConservativeFirst— 10/2/05 @ 1:28 pm

    aka, GELSR: The Great Eternal Liberal Search for Relevance.

  28. 39

    Axl-Rod spews:

    haha – ok ok – stop the farting contest for one minute.

    Can anyone out there tell me what concrete benefits they’ve gotten out of this administration?

    c’mon – i’m serious – i really want to hear a rational answer.

  29. 41

    Axl-Rod spews:

    haha – “a beautiful, concrete deck” – well there’s ‘Pube aesthetics for ya.

  30. 42

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Concrete as in TANGIBLE you nitwit, not concrete as in cement.

    Axl-Rod: a CONCRETE example of your school tax dollars at work.

  31. 43

    Curious George spews:

    Mr. C’s concrete deck –

    I’m sure that the assessor will be interested. As well as the county and schools for your contribution to their general funds.

  32. 47

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Actually it’s going quite well. Ask the women and other formerly disinfrachised in places like Afganistan, Iraq and oters across that region where they are learning the new luxury of FREEDOM and self governance.

  33. 51

    dj spews:

    Mark1

    “the poor dumb slop resigned. What more do you want? Give it up already.”

    I won’t speak for Goldy, but the relevance I see for this post (based on reading the post and the cited links) are:

    1. Brown and his attorney have both claimed that horsesass.org provided false information. For example, Lester’s statement about horsesass.org that “the story was false. But the media kept repeating it.”

    This is factually incorrect. There was nothing false in Goldy’s story. The media did provide some false information later on, but so long as Goldy is being singled out in a VERY high-profile way (before Congress, on national TV, in a “press watchdog” publication), Goldy most certainly has a right to dispute Brown’s and Lester’s incorrect statements about him!

    2. Brown resigned, but he still is getting paid as a consultant by FEMA. He is fair game.

    3. Brown (and Lester) both continue to defend Brown’s handling of Katrina. So long as they are making public statements of this sort, and so long as there is an investigation of FEMA’s handling of Katrina, Brown will be fair game (particularly when he makes misleading statements about horsesass.org).

    4. Lester sticks up for his buddy, Brown, particularly with respect to the IAHA controversy. Yet Goldy’s post (combined with the Arizona Republic article) shows that Lester himself was a highly interested party, who was part of Brown’s shady interactions with IAHA. It make it difficult to take Lester’s defense seriously.

    In sum … there is plenty of relevance here!

  34. 52

    Axl-Rod spews:

    The last 6 people returning from Iraq (that I’ve talked to) have said the same thing – they don’t think we’re making progress, they don’t know why we’re there, they don’t think the Iraqis are capable of democracy, they feel abandoned by the Bush administration, they feel underfunded and underequipped and 4 of them are leaving the Service, one after 17 years, another after 10. They feel in danger all the time with no way to fight back. One guy had movies on his computer and showed me how terribly exposed they are. The equipment is constantly jamming from the sand. They have a million stories about the incompetence of their commanders. Their biggest fear is being crippled and winding up in some VA hell-hole.

    None of them said anything about Dodge Rams or C&W music. Nobody blamed “the Left” for the failures of this mission. Does anyone bother to ask them, or is it just me?

    This is patriotism to you?

    I’m pretty sure they’d just LOVE to use Mr. Cynical for target practice.

  35. 54

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    When hearing from MY STEPSON in Iraq, he paints a much different picture than your pals. Pardon me, but I’ll take his word over that of a ‘blame America first Bush basher’.

    You corrected my typo – bully for you! Want a cookie?

  36. 55

    Jimmy spews:

    Good God you could follow this jackass all the way down the line and find more and more proof that he is just another creepy bush crony. Typical eh?

    Oh, ASS, I see you are still here talking about something else. Did you ever answer the questions?? How did you manage to hijack this thread back to Iraq? You must be a proud ass….. moron.

  37. 56

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Pay attention Jimmy, through your drug induced daze – your pal A-nimRod brought up the topic of how things are going in Iraq: see #46, #52.

  38. 57

    windie spews:

    Proudass, I think its funny that you’re so proud of your stepson, as if he were your own or if your values had anything to do with him going.

    The fact remains that (at least on HA) the Lefties served, the righties declined. You can’t dodge that, “Patriot”!

    all I can say to you @ 48 & 50 is:

    IRONY

  39. 58

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Proudass, I think its funny that you’re so proud of your stepson, as if he were your own or if your values had anything to do with him going. -Comment by windie— 10/2/05 @ 4:35 pm

    Congratulations windie, you topped even yourself in vile, despicable comments.

    Are you so cavalier toward those who adopt? Those who take in foster children? Those who merely mentor?

    You’ve stooped to a new low even for a horses ASS.

    Congratulations. I’m sure you’re equally as proud as the rock from under which you crawled.

  40. 59

    windie spews:

    Ooops, I’ll admit an error.

    Somehow I read “Stepson” as “nephew”.

    That is 100% wrong, and I apologize.

  41. 60

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Assholerod—
    I’m not a Republican…I’m not pro-Bush.
    What I am is anti-LEFTIST PINHEAD!
    I’m a Libertarian who is disgusted with Government Bureaucracy’s at local, state and Federal level. And yes, I’m more than disgusted at the runaway spending of Bush.
    However, when I finish all my ciphering…the biggest problem we face is the LEFTIST PINHEAD movement of more & more taxes, more & more regulations that micro-manage of day-to-day lives, and bigger, less effective bureaucracies.

  42. 62

    spews:

    21
    The only one I heard debating the meaning of what is is was Clinton. He was cornered when he lied about “having sex with that women” You donks have short memories.

  43. 63

    spews:

    28

    No one is saying to spend more money on vouchers you dumbass. Geesh. Just open it up to free competition. If you educate a child at 10k a year let the parents have the option to take 8k to opt out and use it toward private schools. Is this math too hard for you to understand?

  44. 64

    spews:

    I dont know why you dems would not be on the bandwagon on this. You can cut down on class size and save money so you can waste it all at the same time. No one is saying to use all the money that is wasted per child for vouchers.. just some.

  45. 65

    Puddybud spews:

    Hey DJ, is Goldy going to retract his linking of some of Maureen Dowd’s commentary regardin Joel Allbaugh and Mike Brown? I doubt it. Goldy never corrects himself. He’s a LEFTIST PINHEAD!

    Correction in NY TImes.”One notes that Krugman, Maureen Dowd and Frank Rich all incorrectly stated that former FEMA director Michael Brown went to college with his predecessor Joe Allbaugh.”

    From the cemented (oops… damn typing skills) demented mind of Goldy September 3rd: As Josh Marshall explains in his coverage on Talking Points Memo, Brown’s main qualification for the post – perhaps his only – is the fact that he was a college roommate of former FEMA head and Bush political fixer Joe Allbaugh. And as Knight-Ridder points out, Brown’s prior experience with disaster was a disastrous run for Congress.

    Maybe that’s what is being discussed about Goldy by Mike and Lester. His love of the NY Times when it states stuff he loves against anything GWB, but when corrected somehow Goldy dismisses it or overlooks it. Well us on the right don’t overlook anything anymore!

  46. 66

    Puddybud spews:

    Maybe Mike and Lester should go after Josh Marshall in his bullshit points memo too! You see LEFTIST PINHEADS, we agreed with you that Mike Brown had issues.

  47. 67

    dj spews:

    Puddyspud @ 65,

    “Hey DJ, is Goldy going to retract his linking of some of Maureen Dowd’s commentary regardin Joel Allbaugh and Mike Brown?”

    Ummm…you would have to ask Goldy, not me. But, form what I can see, you are mistaken. Goldy did not make the (inaccurate) claim … he (accurately) reported a claim. You really ought to be able to tell the difference!

    “I doubt it. Goldy never corrects himself.”

    Really, then try reading his blog—it is clear from the comments you squirt out of your asshole into the comment threads that you either don’t read Goldy’s posts, or you don’t comprehend them.

    There are numerous instances where Goldy corrects his inaccurate statements. I mean, did you notice the correction just a week or two ago here?

    Try not to blame Goldy when you misunderstand his sense of humor or satire, or when you cannot distinguish between making a claim and reporting a claim.

    Oh…and bad MSM. Allbaugh apparently wasn’t his college roommate, just a lifelong friend. As if that somehow substantively changes the cronyism involved….

  48. 68

    hardovertoport spews:

    @63: Read post 33 dumberass. You substract from the sum total of human intelligence every time you open your mouth. Man, you just can’t find enough ways to suck off guvmint, can you? Taking out 8K and putting in your pocket? How many kids would you be willing to “support” if you could suck off 8K for each one. You already get a tax deduction for each one. Use that to offset private school costs. Actually, I’d rather pay you 8K to not reproduce at all.

  49. 69

    dj spews:

    RUFUS @ 62

    “The only one I heard debating the meaning of what is is was Clinton. He was cornered when he lied about “having sex with that women” You donks have short memories. “

    As I thought. You don’t even know what the fuck you are talking about (again).

    The “questionable” use of “is” came from Clinton’s lawyer, who used it grammatically correctly. Star felt that “is” should refer to the past tense, as well.

    Learn a little more about these bullshit points your employer feeds you.

    By the way, did you ever answer my question about how much it pays to be a troll ’round here? Just curious.

  50. 70

    yearight spews:

    hardovertoport-Read post 33

    OK – Here goes.

    ‘Public funds should not go to private benefit.’

    Think about that. Instead of “welfare” we should force the poor to eat at government mess halls, sleep in public building, etc.

    ‘Private schools could not deliver what they deliver if they had to deliver the same mandates as public schools – quality would go down’

    That is your opinion. There is no reason to think that private schools would degrade to the extent of public schools, especially if they could get a decent percentage of what public schools get for disabled students, etc. I would agree that as any private school gets as big as the current public school system, and is burdened with the same monolithic policies and union issues, the quality would go down.

    ‘If they don’t like the school their child is going to, they need to get more involved in a constructive way.’

    Many try every day. The “one size fits all” model is not responsive to any constructive criticism, especially from parents who are not “experts”.

    ‘But I’m not about to underwrite their parental responsibilities.’

    Which is exactly what you do by supporting public schools. Or, for that matter, any welfare or other assistance monies that can be abused by parents in direct conflict with what is best for their children.

    The ardent supporters of “public” school have tunnel vision when it comes to how to provide that education. The current top-down union-driven model that jumps at every unproven fad is not the only way to provide education to the masses. The GI Bill is a great example of where the education was funded by the government by giving the money to the student. People on welfare should be able to choose their own food, and parents should be able to steer the education of their children.

  51. 71

    yearight spews:

    dj-69

    ‘…question about how much it pays to be a troll ’round here?’

    No one should have to get paid for that much fun.

  52. 72

    yearight spews:

    dj-69

    Actually, this should be volunteer work. Perhaps the Americorp can “sponsor” some more troops here. And they would cetainly be “volunteers”, except for the salary and college benefits.

  53. 73

    dj spews:

    yearight @ 72

    Indeed … the Bush administration probably does have an “educational” program that pays “volunteers” to “contribute” to lefty blogs.

    No doubt the program is headed up by Armstrong Williams.

  54. 74

    hardovertoport spews:

    Vouchers are simply an attempt to “privatize” public education. You won’t end up with a better product, you will simply end up with more of the same at greater expense. Giving parents vouchers for private schools is another expense piled on top of other expenses. And…having a tiered system would increase the costs of education, not decrease them. The analogy I use is the low interest loans offered to parents (I think this was during the Reagan Era) to assist with college expenses. The interest was less than for any other loans, and this system was widely abused, ESPECIALLY by individuals who were already affluent and well-educated enough to know how to milk the system. In any case, Tuition costs skyrocketed, even at state universities because all schools were competing, not to build better schools, but for all this new money. Not all public schools are poor schools, and not all private schools deliver a good product. There are many good school districts, and while I would like to see public schools dispense with most extracurricular “programs” (I think parents should fund their children’s recreation), and concentrate on academics, I’m not willing to write checks to parents so that they have a “choice”. Parents already have a choice. If parents want their children to attend private school because they can’t stand the hassle of the public school district they are in, they can either pay for it out of their own pocket or they can move to another district.

  55. 75

    headless lucy spews:

    re 32: High expectations often inspire great efforts, but unrealistic expectations promote a spirit killing ennui in students who are not capable of that sort of high level of scholastic performance. Just as every boy cannot make the varsity basketball team, not every student has the wherewithal to complete a college prep. course.

    If their slogan were: “We want to make a college level athlete of every student”, you could see the absurdness of such a goal with ease. But, when applied to academics, the statement remains unchallenged. I don’t know why. It is as if the Bellevue administrators all forgot to zip their pants and people are too polite to say anything.

  56. 76

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    but unrealistic expectations promote a spirit killing ennui in students who are not capable of that sort of high level of scholastic performance. -Comment by headless lucy— 10/2/05 @ 8:23 pm

    Oh bullshit. It’s that kind of lowest common denominator mediocrity that’s the problem. Kids will live up to expectations. If they don’t manage to be #1 in their class or on their team, they have gained knowledge, they have learned from the experience. I cannot imagine even 1 person that has not learned from some sort of failure.

  57. 77

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Poor little darlings, lets keep em stupid so they don’t feel bad.

    UNBELIEVABLE.

  58. 79

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    20% of California Seniors Flunk High School Graduation Exam…

    The exit exam — which has come under criticism by some educators, legislators and civil rights advocates — is geared to an eighth-grade level in math and to ninth- and 10th-grade levels in English.

    Nah, our schools aren’t failing at all. It’s perfectly ok that SENIORS can’t pass 8th grade level exams.

    UNBELIEVABLE that anyone would, could will defend this.

  59. 80

    Puddybud spews:

    DJ: Goldy writes satire/humor on his GWB rants? Goldy writes satire/humor on his GWB appointments? And you accuse me of speaking from my anus? He hates GWB!!! We on the right know this as a solid gold fact. That blog comment is the largest toilet floater tonight in this thread! From the mind through the fingers to animal hind parts starring DJ. I guess some Charmin is needed to clean up that shit. You reference a small contest between Ferguson and Edmonds. Right DJ, that’s a real mea culpa. How long did you spend looking that one up? It took me all of three seconds to retrieve that Sept 3rd comment.

    All Goldy had to do and he would have received high marks from many of us on the right was to write: On September 3rd, I copied incorrect information from Josh Marshall and his Taking Points Memo regarding Mike Brown and Joe Allbaugh. This commentary has been proven wrong by the New York Times. That’s what real men do. But again DJ, you and many of you leftist friends are not real men but racist enablers!

  60. 81

    Puddybud spews:

    And rugrat don’t bring up Bill Bennett. PacMan’s email put that one to bed. The statistics bear out what Dr Bennett stumbingly said! Today, 80% of black births are OOW. The Prosecution Rests!

  61. 83

    spews:

    68
    68

    I hope the hell you don’t have kids. You must be one of those KCRE election workers. You sound like a guvmint worker. Your spew on post 33 is just that… spew. We give all kinds of transfer payments and welfare benefits to people without any strings attached. Voucher should be made available to every student… the private market will take care of the rest. I trust the parents and the market place way more then the donks who currently run the public schools.

  62. 84

    headless lucy spews:

    re 75: An autistic child will not live up to this expectation. Nor will a student with a borderline IQ. Nor will many Asperger children, even though they may be intellectually gifted enough. The blanket statement about “high expectations” is, in my opinion, an unrealistic and, therefore, false goal. If you righties could think past your Knee-jerk rhetoric you’d agree with me.

    Just about everybody has an opinion on education because just about everyone has been through the system, but unless you have training and experience, you’d best leave it to people like me who know what they’re doing.

  63. 85

    headless lucy spews:

    re 80: Keep it up Pudwhack. You’re creating more votes for Democrats every day.

  64. 86

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    In 1987, we left the Redmond Plateau (well before it was Sammamish) in a transfer to Pittsburgh (home, birthplace and subject of August Wilson, btw). At that time, the then Places Rated Almanac rated Pittsburgh Best Place to Live. One reason was the top school district in the country.

    We lived in that district.

    As you can well imagine, there are MANY Catholic schools in Pittsburgh area – we could actually choose from about 5 within 10 minutes of our home.

    One of the consequences of the Bradford Woods School District being number 1, was the LOW cost of Catholic Schools! My total bill for 2 kids in Catholic school was under $865/year… AND because we were in a “non profit school within 10 miles of our home” we were ENTITLED to public school transportation to school, by virtue of our school taxes! The bus would pick up and deliver the public school kids, then turn right around and make the very same circuit for the private school kids. Competition WORKS. The public schools strived for quality, achieved that quality which then forced the equal “quality” Catholic schools to become competitive by lowering their tuition.
    Competition WORKS… and everyone benefits.

  65. 87

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    lunatic@83 & 84–
    The mere thought of spending even one second in your presence makes me want to hurl. I cannot believe you post this garbage from a Seattle School District IP. Have you ever thought what would happen if someone did a PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST on all your correspondence???
    It’s simple to recapture what you have done thru that IP.
    Can you imagine how parents in your school would feel??
    I’ve seen legitimate records requests uncover unfaithful spouses, gay spouses, porn viewing for hours on end etc.
    People who use government computers and government internet access are foolish to take that risk.
    I guess that’s because you are foolish, huh Lunatic!!

  66. 88

    windie spews:

    man… Warping kids by putting them in Catholic school? I feel bad for them already.

    How old do you have to be before you forget how stupid/worthless it is? There are plenty of *good* private schools to use, if thats your thing… without resorting to *that*

  67. 89

    Puddybud spews:

    Winded one: The warping occurs when public school teachers foist their political agenda upon the students. My sons see this every day in highschool. One english teacher has a life sized cutout of GWB in her classroom. She then makes political comments with her LEFTISH PINHEAD bumper stickers on her podium. Another teacher has anti-Bush memorabilia in his classroom. And that isn’t corrupting poor minds? Give me a break you WEA lover!

    Regarding introducing God into their life. Studies have proven those in a religious school bringing don’t committ the same level of crimes that public schooling does. Maybe that liberal bent creates havoc in the medulla oblongata? Can you say brainwashed?

    Lucite: You are the problem. We have already determine that from long ago. Racist Dolt! I’ll give president Kerry a call tomorrow. Better you why don’t you view his website at whitehouse.gov?

  68. 90

    Puddybud spews:

    Look at the big headline in the Monday morning USA Today newspaper. Most governors do not want the military helping in disasters. Most states in the article say they are the first responders to disasters, even JEB Bush said this. Hmmm…? Does that mean Kathy Blanco is a nincompoop, incompetent? Must be since the USA Today paper is printing this article.

  69. 91

    windie spews:

    @89

    And yet, I somehow don’t know one person my age who went to Catholic School, who’s still catholic… Most aren’t even Christian of any sort.

    More to the thrust of you speech, You Huge Logical Fallacy there. Kids who’s parents have the $$$/inclination to put them into private school are less likely to commit crimes anyways. You guys like that one tho’.

    Also: Saying Evolution is science isn’t “Leftist Pinhead Propaganda”. If you really think that teachers are brainwashing students, well… I dunno what to say, ‘cept I’m glad I live in reality, rather than your world.

  70. 92

    windie spews:

    damn “You HAVE A Huge Logical Fallacy”

    Misedited the sentence when I put the link in :(

  71. 93

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    So now you’ve degraded into Catholic bashing…you’re working toward a trifecta – what’s the next group you’d like to insult?

    I have no doubt that you don’t know one person of your age who remained in the faith – or any faith for that matter – that’s is emblematic to the “me above all” culture. And it’s also a product of the “We don’t take our kids to church because we want to let them decide when they’re old enough” crowd, aka cowardly/lazy parents.

  72. 94

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Pope Benedict XVI
    October 2, 2005

    “A tolerance which allows God as a private opinion but which excludes him from public life, from the reality of the world and our lives, is not tolerance but hypocrisy,”

    “When man makes himself the only master of the world and master of himself, justice cannot exist. Then, arbitrariness, power and interests rule.”

  73. 95

    hardovertoport spews:

    Ass@86: Don’t panic now, but I agree with you: Private schools and public schools benefit by competition, and by the different things they offer. You are absolutely on point when you sugggest that a good public school system makes for a good private school system, and vice versa. That can work. I have no objection to private schools. I think they are a valid choice, and one of the many reasons some of them work well is because parents are making the sacrifice out of their own pocket, to educate their children there – that alone increaeses parental involvement, and parental involvement helps any situation. But…I’m not interested in paying parents vouchers. And, especially I’m not interested in sucking funds away from the public school system so parents can pocket voucher money and then claim they are “sacrificing” to send their kids to private school. What disingenuous crap! People who are interested in sending their children to a church school or another private school should certainly pursue that option – but they should pay for it themselves. We have many church schools in this district – plenty of choice for everyone, and our public schools are of good quality. The one serves the other. rufus aparently feels that the government owes him not only a tax deduction but some sort of an allowance for each child he “fathers” and “supports” – 8K a year he wants for for each of them. $8000 a year! That’s what he asked for. That’s just nonsense.

  74. 96

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    The problem, now, is that when you talk public vs private you are talking apples and oranges.

    The private schools DO compete…with each other… which leads to higher standards, more choices for parents and families, more willingness to meet ‘consumer’ needs/desires, more accountability.

    There is no competition amongst public schools, absolutely no choices for the parents, no reason for the public schools to do anything different than they are now, no real accountability to anyone because of their monopoly.

  75. 97

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    It’s interesting that the liberals all had their thongs all in a knot while accusing big, bad Microsoft of being a monopoly… I guess the difference is that they, and the union thugs, get to control the money/set the agenda for their monopoly.

  76. 98

    Axl-Rod spews:

    Freedom FROM religion – that’s the objective people.

    Fundamentalist Muslims are precisely equal to fundamentalist Christians, strict-constructionists and laissez-faire economists.

    Their dream of ‘vouchers’ and keeping the populace dumb is fading right along with the Bush-dolt’s poll numbers.

    can you spell ‘bye-bye’ ?

    wave ‘bye-bye’ ‘Pubes – you went too far to the right and now we get the center and win, as always.

    the louder they bark the more you know they’re going down.

    :)

  77. 99

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Freedom FROM religion – that’s the objective people. -Comment by Axl-Rod— 10/3/05 @ 9:37 am

    Tsk, tsk, little rod, you broke the cardinal rule of liberalism – never reveal the true objective.

  78. 100

    windie spews:

    for the record ASS, I’m catholic SCHOOL bashing, not Catholic bashing… Being you, you didn’t miss the chance to smear. Somehow I’m not surprised… You’re low enough to intentionally misinterperet it. (Not to mention that you’re slimy enough to bring up something where I made a mistake, admitted it, and apologized… and you accepted the apology. But once you can use it for political ammo, thats right out the window… Smear away, again)

    My experience remains… people I know who attended parochial schools are generally turned off on the whole religion thing by the experience. This leads me, as a Christian, to wonder if that model as a whole is the best way to get Godliness into the next generation… (Not to mention critical thought, remind me to tell you the abortion debate story sometime~)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ummmm…………. How did we get on this subject? From brown being a crook to Vouchers seems to be quite a leap… Ah well, its interesting anyways!

  79. 101

    hardovertoport spews:

    @96: Public schools are accountable. They are accountable through their duly elected school boards. They also compete with private schools. As a taxpayer I can go to school Board meetings and I do. I still volunteer as a reading tutor from time to time. We have parents and grandparents show up to volunteer. They put in every bit the time any private school parent does and they don’t ask for 8K a year to put in their pocket. The people who want vouchers basically want everything their way, they then send their kid to private school, when that doesn’t work out for them they try to home school (with full district support, I might add) and when that doesn’t work and they’ve run out of options, then, they want “choice” and and what the really want is: “Just gimmeee the money! 8K a year to put in their pocket, no questions asked and they want to suck it off the public school system that we all have a responsibility to. Yeah, yeah, I know that people aren’t precisely accountable for their food stamps and their welfare, so what? The poor will always be with us and we should help them. However they do have to meet certain conditions and I don’t think you can buy ANYTHING you want with food stamps. Would you really want to be in those shoes? Where do today’s parents get their exagerrated sense of entitlement? the “my kids deserve a free education, and you damn well better do it MY way, and by god, you better give me the money! It isn’t the people who are so flawed and deficient that they can’t do better that bother me. It’s the self serving jerks with the exaggerated sense of entitlement, who think they should be able to stand in line for a freebie that someone else might be actually needing, as opposed to wanting – they don’t see ‘need’ as valid; all they see is I WANT!. What they really want is an unending allowance for the rest of their lives, and they’re using their kids to try and get it. It’s not always about their children’s education. It’s about their sense of entitlement. They’re not concerned about the needs of all children. They’re not interested in making public schools better. They’re into I WANT and I WANT MY SHARE! Sucking off the system through their kids. It’s pathetic.

  80. 102

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Sorry sweet cheeks, you chose to segregate Catholic schools from all private schools… I call that Catholic bashing.

    Interesting reading
    United States Catholic history: American Catholic education: Historical contours and future directions

    Excerpts:

    More than two hundred years ago, Philadelphia Catholics established what is thought to be the first Catholic parish school in the United States. It was not the first church-sponsored school in the country. In fact, it was not even the first Catholic school in the country.

    But this largely unnoticed event began one of the most ambitious social movements in American history. Over the next two centuries, Catholic parochial schools would educate tens of millions of American citizens without direct financial assistance from federal, state, or local governments

    …What can public education learn from parish schools? In a recent study entitled Catholic Schools and the Common Good, three social scientists outlined the successful hallmarks of Catholic education, hallmarks that could be adapted by public schools.

    Foremost among the qualities of parish-based education is decentralization. To be sure, all parochial schools are nominally controlled by superintendents and diocesan boards of education. But for the most part, parish schools are administered at the local level. Funding for the schools comes from the community, and teachers are hired by principals without interference. Parents have a greater involvement and effectiveness in the education process because they are working with a single institution in their neighborhood rather than a faceless bureaucracy downtown.

    A second quality related to the first is the fact that parents, students, and faculty share a broad set of beliefs that give each school a moral purpose. Achieving this unanimity in a public institution may not be easy. But if our nation’s motto means anything, then public institutions must do more to achieve “one out of many.” Shared values are possible if parents, students, and faculty care about education.

    Another hallmark of parochial schools worthy of emulation is size. The small size of most parish schools promotes interaction between students, parents, and staff. Because teachers serve in many different roles during the school day-disciplinarians, counselors, and friends as well as specialists in one or more academic disciplines-they become mentors and role models. The small size of most parish schools ensures that parents and teachers know one another and their children well. In short, small size facilitates communication.

  81. 104

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    they don’t ask for 8K a year to put in their pocket.-Comment by hardovertoport— 10/3/05 @ 10:18 am

    In their pocket?
    Are you crazy?

    Look at most Catholic school buildings.
    Talk to the teachers who are paid at under 85% of the public school teacher rates.
    Go compare the “goodies” such as computer labs, libraries, audio visual “stuff”, theatres, athletic equipment, hell even textbooks, that the PUBLIC SCHOOLS have to what we use in Catholic schools.
    Compare the costs of administrators and janitors and secretaries and “support staff” (you know, all those public school union paid and protected jobs) – oh wait … in Catholic schools “support staff” are volunteers.

    And despite all that, we are graduating better educated, better prepared kids.

    Do the words NON-PROFIT mean anything to you?

  82. 108

    windie spews:

    ASS@102

    You are such a slimeball.

    I said that hearing from several (mostly ex-) catholic friends, none of them had anything good to say about the parochial school system, and that most of them are no longer Catholic. That’s not slurring all Catholics, you evil bastard! You’re so congenitally dishonest, and have such a will to be offended that you will try to take something as a slur, just so you can complain about it. I could give you specific examples from various schools, but theres not really a point. You’ll say they’re anecdotal (only anectodal evidence that serves your pseudo-fascist agenda’s allowed of course), and accuse me of Sectism again.

    Seriously though, ProudASS. You’re such an awful, poisonous person, I’m surprised anyone can stand to be around you… let alone marry you. If the toxicity of your personality comes across so clearly on a blog like this, I can’t begin to imagine what you must be like in person.

    In short: I’d say “Go to hell”, but given your greed, hard-heartedness, and cruelty, you likely already are.

  83. 109

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Oh please, spare me the sanctimony, you anti’s can’t wait to salivate over anything to do with the Catholic church – you gleefully paint all Catholics, all Priests, all Nuns with the same broad brush whenever the opportunity presents itself.

    Shall I spend my valuable time reseaching all the Catholic ugliness posted right here back during the Schiavo murder or when Pope John Paul died, or Pope Benedict was chosen? Nah, I have to finish painiting before the carpenters get here. I’d bet, though, I’d find your little tootsie prints all over them.

    As a lifelong Catholic, raised in Catholic schools, believe me I know Catholic bashing when I hear it.You say you’re not Catholic bashing… fine, I accept that.

    Now, how does it feel to be tarred with the guilt of your like minded pals?

    26+ years, kiddo We’re having more fun today than at any other time in our life: 2 kids out of college, 1 out of law school the other heading for an MBA and a highschooler. I hope you can aspire to and succeed in a marriage half that long. Odds are against it.

  84. 110

    windie spews:

    Go back to my original comment: “How long does it take you to forget?”

    I admit that I”m surprised that you have such a victim-complex over your faith. I thought that was a lefty thing.

    And to be honest, if I knew you’d freak out over it, I wouldn’t have brought it up. I mean seriously… its kinda creepy.

    But back to the point of my previous post: Regardless of your faith, you’re a loathesome human being… Or maybe, you just play one here because you get some sick joy out of trying to bully people from the safety of your computer screen.

  85. 111

    headless lucy spews:

    re 87: You mean like Jim West? You may have a point though that taking the time to answer your inane arguments is a flagrant waste of time. You’re trying to infringe on my rights of free speech. Go ahead and see how far you get.

  86. 112

    headless lucy spews:

    re 87: You are not the arbiter of what is and isn’t a legitimate use of any given computer.

  87. 113

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Awww pity poor windie… are you feeling bullied??

    Get a grip.

    And, I’ve got a newsflash for you sport, rebuking every thing you say is NOT, I repeat, is NOT an attempt “to infringe on my rights of free speech.” Did you learn NOTHING in your civics class?

    “Go ahead and see how far you get.”

    Insults didn’t cower me, so now you’re resorting to threats? Aren’t you afraid they’ll revoke your pacifist card, Mr Liberal Tolerance?

  88. 114

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    U.S. Constitution: First Amendment
    First Amendment – Religion and Expression
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Get it yet?

  89. 115

    windie spews:

    DumbASS@113

    Oh come on! The best you can do is echo my insults back at me? I mean… damn! I know your ‘think on your own’ cells are atrophied, but still!

    As to the rest of it, you’re back in the “I believe my words change reality” kick again. You saying I said something doesn’t mean I did (I believe thats called the “Straw Man” fallacy… a favorite amongst rightie trolls).

    And I threatened you? HAH!

    Lets see: I *said* you had a victim-complex.
    I *said* you were creepy.
    I *implied* that you might be a bully, but only as
    an alternative to you being congenital ass.

    I suppose this should be a surprise to nobody tho. Reality simply isn’t your thing. Keep up the hard work on that ‘typing as reality-editation’!

  90. 116

    windie spews:

    @114

    umm… err?

    Who the hell are you talking to? Neither Lucy nor I are saying anything that woudl relate to the establishment clause…

  91. 117

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Ah you got me windie – I transposed you and ballsless looney. As much as I think your opinions are wrong headed, narrow minded and foolish, I don’t think you come close to the psychopathy of the looney one.

    I know you still luv me.

  92. 120

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    lucy@112–
    You completely missed my point dumbass….probably on purpose.
    My point is that your computer using a School District Internet access makes all your correspondence a PUBLIC RECORD….subject to a PUBLIC RECORDS REQUEST.
    I have no interest in doing this…..but my point is anyone could and you would have to give it up. EMBARRASSING when it’s in the paper….just ask some of the Washington State workers who had their affairs broadcast….or others who had their porn visits laid out in the public. OUCH!!!!
    lucy, I’m not trying to be the “arbiter”. I think I’m giving you sound, unsolicited advice.
    Hell, some of my fellow cowboys don’t think much of you lucy. I prefer to let you venomously ramble. It’s harmless. Others may not see it that way.

  93. 122

    windie spews:

    @120

    I’m not the one making crap up and throwing logical fallacies around…

    That the best you can do?

    I”m used to you guys not being able to engage us on the facts… But you’re not even able to engage on an argument level!

  94. 124

    hardovertoport spews:

    @104: As I said earlier, I have nothing against private schools, either faith-based or just “private”. Catholics have had their own schools for years. Now other churches are getting into the act, as are non-religious private schools. All I’m saying is that private schools should be privately supported. I want my tax money to go to public schools, not directly into someone’s pocket as a voucher (Do YOU want to pay someone 8K per year per child as Rufus suggested?).

    Private schools should be privately supported. They have their own fund raisers, auctions and such. And, just because I want my tax money to go to public schools doesn’t mean I never support private schools. I simply do it differently. I’m much more likely to write a check to a private school fund-raiser than I am to a public school fund raiser, if the public school fund raiser is for extra curricular activities, because that’s where I think parents need to step up and put something extra if they want that for their kids. That’s a fact. But I want my tax money to go to public schools, not private schools.

    Oh and I didn’t see any Catholic bashing in those other posts you were so determined to complain about, but then I’m not Catholic and maybe I’m just sensitivity challenged. It does seem to me that you are indulging a persectution complex. Enjoy.

  95. 125

    spews:

    109-

    Lifelong Catholic (recovering now…but I have relapsed many times over the years), raised in the Church, I am. 12 years of Catholic schools…and the current church leadership SICKENS me.

    This is the Church of the Inquisition…the Dark Ages. The repressed, oligarchic and massively hypocritical Church of my youth. It’s only going to get worse with JPII’s enforcer at the helm, and rightwing borgs like Brunett in charge of the Diocesan level.

    Hopefully they will destroy the Church so we, the people can save the religion.

  96. 128

    windie spews:

    Thouroughly trounced, ProudASS retreats from another thread, hoping it will soon be forgotten and consigned to history.

  97. 129

    Puddybud spews:

    Broke Some Wind (AKA Smelly Behind): Have you read the Seattle School District Internet Use Policies? What Lucite been saying during skuul hours is against that policy. And it’s all being documented at a central location.

    Cynical: I want head-up-de-ass Lucite to continue to post. Someday one of us will pull a FOE-PRR on this commentary. When it all comes to light, the AXE will fall and down will cum Lucite, ballsless for all.

    Rujax: Not being a Catholic, no comment from me. This is a ProudAss/Broke Some Wind fight!

  98. 130

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Thouroughly trounced, ProudASS retreats from another thread, hoping it will soon be forgotten and consigned to history. Comment by windie— 10/3/05 @ 4:35 pm

    Nice try. Grown ups engage in grown up responsibilities, as I have been doing most of the day… you know, little things like children, family, bills, home….

    I know it’s a difficult concept for you U kiddies laying about on daddy’s dime this 1st week of class. I truly hope to see
    LESS of most of you as you attempt to engage in higher learning… although I think you might actually have to leave your room to do it.

    You kiddies are pure entertainment between coats of paint.

  99. 131

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    This is a ProudAss/Broke Some Wind fight! Comment by Puddybud— 10/3/05 @ 5:33 pm

    No fight.

    I’m proud to be a faithful Catholic and he’s a member of the bigoted anti-Catholic Asses.

    Ne’er the twain shall meet.

    So whatever I say is lost on him and whatever point he attempts to make is moot with me.

    End of story.

    hardovertoport: believe it or not, I do understand the gist of what you are saying. I do. The only problem is that far too many parents are condemned to NO CHOICE in public schools. It doesn’t affect me one whit except in the way poorly educated students affect society at large. When vouchers finally come to pass, and they will, my children will be long done. I won’t see a benefit, except to see families make CHOICES based on their needs instead of herded into the local school. I simply cannot understand why choice and competition are good in every other area of the marketplace, from cars to ice cream, but not in the single MOST important product society has to offer: EDUCATION.

  100. 132

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Rugrat, you may have been BAPTIZED Catholic, but you are as much a true Catholic as my stapler. I can certainly sprinkle it with Holy Water, but it ain’t gonna make it a stapler of faith.

  101. 133

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    And believe it or not, I agree with you about ArchBishop, finger-in-the-political-wind Brunett, although IF in fact you ever bothered to listen to him on anything, (when he wasn’t trying to side step an issue, that is) you’d find him a polar OPPOSITE of our conservative new Pope.

  102. 134

    spews:

    hardovertoport

    You just don’t get it do you. I never said that we should give 8k to each kid over and above what we give them now. I want vouchers to save the tax payer money, not waste it. I just want to see kids of all socio-economic backgrounds get a good education, not just the rich ones. It doesn’t harm me in the least if a parent wants to educate their child with public money in an accredited Islamic, budist, Jewish or catholic/Christian school. Your argument about not wanting public money going to private organizations is discredited by the simple fact that we give welfare checks (i.e. money) to welfare recipients. There is no guarantee welfare money is not going to religious organizations is there?

  103. 136

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    132-Blahblahblahblahblah.-Comment by rujax206— 10/3/05 @ 8:41 pm

    Please notice, ladies and gentlemen, there is NO denial.

  104. 137

    headless lucy spews:

    re 120: Don’t believe everything people tell you. Everytime you can’t think of a valid argument and I’ve got you over a barrel, you drag out the Seattle Schools’ computer crap. It’s laughable!

    Your mother wears Army boots.

  105. 138

    Puddybud spews:

    Cynical: I suppose it’s time is as good a time to pull the FOE-PRR on Lucite. Unless, he really doesn’t work for the school district and is a volunteer.

  106. 139

    Puddybud spews:

    Bad editing, sorry:

    Cynical: I suppose it’s a good time to pull the FOE-PRR on Lucite. Unless, he really doesn’t work for the school district and is a volunteer.

  107. 140

    hardovertoport spews:

    Rufus@134: What you said at 63 was …to let the parents have the option to take 8K to opt out…

    Why? why should parents be paid to opt out of the public school system? Would people who don’t have children have the privlege of opting out? Single people without children pay taxes to support a public school system, why can’t they opt out, too? BECAUSE…Public schools systems are a community responsbility, whether or not you have childfren in them. Private schools serve an important need, and Parents DO have a choice. Many private schools have programs for low income families. Parents might have to join a church…not a bad thing, hey? But they do have a choice. If they don’t like the school in their district, they can check out private schools. Not only the rich send their kids to private schools. It isn’t just a question of money. It’s a question of valuing education and their childre, and people who value children do want ALL children to have an education, and THAT IS WHY WE NEED A PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM and why you need to support regardless of where you send your kids.
    For the sake of argument, let’s just say the whole system is scrapped, and all schools compete – the free market model: If that’s what you want, then allow public schools to compete for the same students that private schools compete for: Those with involved parents, those who can pay, and so on – relieve the public schools of the mandate to provide education for ALL children and force the private schools to deal with the marginal, with learning disabilities, with the homeless, with those who truly by tragedy of nature, life, intellect, have almost no life choices. I think the PRIVATE school system would suffer if that were the case. My point is this: Good private schools, need the strucktrue of a good public school system as a foundation – or they won’t make it either.

  108. 141

    headless lucy spews:

    But then I’ll know who you are since your request becomes a public record as well. And the threats you’ve made will be public knowledge. Are you really proud of all the things you’ve written. Do you want everyone to know who you are. Sword of Damocles, bud.

  109. 142

    windie spews:

    ProudASS: For all your claims of being an adult, et al, you’re pathetically easy to manipulate. In fact, you’re qualified right behind Mr. Irrelevant for Bush’s ‘perfect unthinking followers’ list.

    Easily led, unthinking, dogmatic, victim complex, continually falling back to the same 3-4 insults when in a corner… Truly a piece of work.

    And now you tell Rujax he’s not a true Catholic? How the hell do you know?

    I can picture your little world:

    Everyone is either with you or against you.
    Once you’ve come to a conclusion, no amount of evidence can change your opinion of ‘the facts’.
    You’re always the victim. Anything that can be construed as an insult is a direct, prejudiced attack on you, your family, or (apparently especially) your faith.
    The most basic taunt brings you running back enraged.
    You’re totally terrified of being wrong.
    You base your online identity (here) not on what you are, or wht you’re for, but rather for what you’re against, what you want to insult.

    To be honest, I don’t know how you stand it.

  110. 143

    horse whisperer spews:

    How come we don’t have Lorry on this thread taking apart everything the VERY LIBERAL ‘Arizona Republic” had to say! Seems the more rope tossed out to ole brownie- the tighter- he and his pals pull it.

  111. 144

    Puddybud spews:

    Hey Lucite, I can post an anonymous complaint, just taking your comments from the Internet and transmitting them to the school district. Sorry, but this dog does hunt and yours can’t point. Also the Damocles Sword was held by a thin thread. There is no thin thread here. It’s a large rope slowly moving your way.

    Regarding what I have written confronting your racism? ABSOLUTELY AM PROUD No problem. But your threats have no bearing. You are the school distric employee. We are the taxpayers, and you are a large stain at the Seattle School District. When it becomes public record, people will see the shit stain here on animal hind parts leader and the racism condoned by LEFTIST PINHEADS.

  112. 145

    Puddybud spews:

    Ding ding: Mail from PacMan

    “Headless Lucy, now that Cynical has suggested the FOE-PRR, I may be the one to follow this through. I am conferring with the wife. Why? Because I have just cause. Puddy doesn’t need to carry my water. I have a strong back, sharp mind, and a positive disposition. Yes, now where do I send my complaint to? Oh yes, your lack of an apology has solidified my position. I think it’s funny since Cynical has illuminated your sorry ass to the reality of a records check, your commentary is relatively sterile.” – Message from PacMan

  113. 146

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    For the sake of argument, let’s just say the whole system is scrapped, and all schools compete – the free market model: If that’s what you want, then allow public schools to compete for the same students that private schools compete for: Those with involved parents, those who can pay, and so on – relieve the public schools of the mandate to provide education for ALL children and force the private schools to deal with the marginal, with learning disabilities, with the homeless, with those who truly by tragedy of nature, life, intellect, have almost no life choices. -Comment by hardovertoport— 10/4/05 @ 9:22 am

    EXACTLY!!!

    You’re always the victim. -Comment by windie— 10/4/05 @ 10:04 am

    Sorry, sweetcheeks, I have NEVER been a victim, I don’t buy into the whole liberal angst of victimhood. Weak people allow themselves to be victims or to be convinced they are victims by those with a political agenda that NEEDS victims. I take responsibility for my life, for the choices I make, for the beliefs I hold. My problems are no one elses, whether it’s a money problem, a job problem or a personal problem. I don’t blame the entire world when things don’t go my way. Usually, THAT is the difference between those with faith and those with none.

    Why does it annoy you so much that I most certainly am PROUD of my family, PROUD of my faith, PROUD that I TAKE a stand on issues that are important to me and will defend them? You damned betcha I don’t take a mushy middle ground: something is RIGHT or it is WRONG – it cannot be both. A is A. (Aristotle, look it up… and yep, it’s our kids site – ain’t it great!). – and I DO NOT WAVER NOR CAN I BE LED BY SOMETHING CONTRARY TO MY BELIEFS.. How can anyone who is easily led actually lead their life? I think that is actually what does annoy liberals – someones whose principals do not waver, cannot be compromised. Sorry, tootsiepie, that’s your problem, not mine.

    Regarding rugrat and his Catholicism: READ windie, READ… once again you cannot BE something you have turned your back on, as he has repeatedly claimed to do , and claimed in quite an ugly manner. You either ARE something or you are NOT something – you cannot be both.

  114. 149

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Not for you hardovertoport – I did answer you in the post caught in that damned cheap ASS filter, and I actually think we could be close to the same idea.

  115. 150

    windie spews:

    @145

    Puddybud… Remember earlier, when I said something to ProudASS about being an ‘internet bully’?

    Right now, you’re being a bully. And you seem to be proud of it.

  116. 151

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Whaa whaaa – call the damned playground monitor – there’s a bully on the swings!

    Good grief – grow up.

  117. 153

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Amazing windie.

    Really, quite amazing.

    All the points I’ve made and the only one you chose to comment about is that one.

    I do believe that proves my /point/instruction to you.

  118. 154

    hardovertoport spews:

    @146 & 149: ; We should probably move this topic to open thread. I’m interested in how you would feel about private schools being forced to take the marginal students, the learning disabled, the at-risk kids and so on? . I don’t think vouchers are the way to go at all. But I do think collaboration between the District and private schools to share certain expenses is OK, for instance the example you mentioned – transportation. I also think sharing instructor’s is OK. As for vouchers…I don’t think adding another entitlement is the answer for cutting costs or the secret to increasing competition – vouchers don’t fit the competitive model anymore than giving EVERYONE a voucher for food stamps increases competition between grocery stores.

    I do think it is a community responsibility to educate all children. Some kids are more expensive to educate than others and that drives costs up for public schools, and yes, providing for the home schooled children the extra support such as individual calssrooms, and labs, and equipment to borrow is an extra expense. I’m skeptical that private schools want to step up to the plate to share those burdens. Sure, they’ll take the students who can’t pay, espeicially if the those children have committed, involved parents who can donate a lot of time, parental involvement is worth A LOT, but the learning disabled, the at-risk, kids that need the expensive extras – I don’t see that happening.

    supporting the public school system is an adult civic responsibility – whether or not you have kids in the public school system. And, again, if private schools didn’t have the support of a good public school system infrastucture, they couldn’t do what they do.

  119. 155

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    An interesting point came up in the news conference yesterday.

    Hundreds of thousands of school children were displaced from their schools as a result of the hurricanes. Those student have been absorbed into schools across the region, including by private and religious schools. There is already a mechanism in place to reimburse the PUBLIC schools who are now educating those childre, but there appears to be a fight about the same reimbursement for the private.

    Unbelievable.

    Under vouchers, schools to accept “marginal” students would flourish and subsequently those children would flourish.

    If you had prostate cancer, would you go to a family practitioner, a cancer doctor or a prostate cancer specialist? Don’t you want your insurance to allow YOU to choose the best care?

    If you had a very “special” car – say a Porsche or a vintage Mercedes or whatever… would you take it to a one size fits all/fits none well corner garage or would you seek out someone who specializes in that car?

  120. 157

    windie spews:

    ProudASS:

    Its fun to taunt you with your idiotic things about childishness, so I do it.

    As to your other ‘points’, I’m tired of trying to shove the truth down your throat, so from now on, unless its really important to refute you, I’m essentially going to treat you like the humorless little troll you are. There is no reason to debate someone like you, who is so dead set against discussing things in good faith.

    (Just a hint: The good internet trolls are funny!)

  121. 158

    Puddybud spews:

    Hey Breaking some windie: PacMan sent you an email.

    “Windie: Good afternoon. The so called “bullying” email is from me. Puddybud posted it as I asked. I am frosted by you and other racist enablers here. So I ask what are you afraid of? If I the humble PacMan, decide to troll deadless loocy for racist commentary while using Seattle School District equipment is bad? While he is being paid to work with them chirren is bullying Lucite is bad? What crystals are you channeling from or smoking? It’s up to me, PacMan, not Puddybud. Aren’t you the one who used Gore Vidal vs. Bill Buckley? Didn’t Puddy say Buckley was for the police because they were beating up the parents of today’s “LEFTIST PINHEADS”? I see Buckley as a visionary. Are you all there windie, or did a cool breeze loosen some brain cells?

    I was the one wronged. What did you say about it? I only saw Mr. X and Dr. E ridicule deadless loocy. I thank Mr. X and Dr. E! Not you, not dj, not David, not GBS, not Goldy nor any other LEFTIST PINHEAD. I think I have a real chance of doing this world some good. What worldly good are you doing windie?” – Message from PacMan

    Breaking Some Windie: Do you see the author of the above email?

  122. 159

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Aww break my heart windbag.

    How funny that YOU should use these words in an acusing sentence: humorless, debate, faith – all clearly incongruous to you, sweetcheeks.

    Why do you so despise those firm in their beliefs? Why are you so easily threatened by a person firm in their resolve? What do you see in lacking yourself that makes seeing that steadfastness in others so maddening for you?

    Move along little windie, hardovertoport and I are trying to solve the edcation crisis.

  123. 160

    windie spews:

    @158 I see who you CLAIM is the author of the email… But I don’t really have any reason to believe you. In fact it makes zero sense for him to do it that way, so I tend to believe you’re dissembling. I mean its Possible, but just not likely.

    @159 Silly silly ass. You’re trying to change reality again, and it still doesn’t work. Everyone knows the truth, altho’ your buddies on the right most likely will be willing to lie to you to make you feel better. Either way, I’m not maddened by your firmly held beliefs… but by your utter unwillingness to do anything on here in good faith.

    You’re a troll, and you’re here because you get some kind of pathetic joy out of making people mad. There are real conservatives here who can intellegently argue their points, but you’re simply not one of them.

    Goldy isn’t Stefan, and doesn’t ban people, a fact you should be very glad of.

    Try to enjoy your fact-free life (if you can overcome your persecution complex), and learn a bit about self-depreciation… It’ll do you a world of good.

    (PS, its kinda creepy having to give someone who’s probably 20 years my elder advice on living… but somebody has to do it.)

  124. 161

    hardovertoport spews:

    PA@155: I think it’s great that the public school systems and private school systems can work together to respond to this crisis. Synergy. That should be a continuing objective.

    However, there are other mechanisms besides direct vouchers to parents that can achieve the objectives of school “choice”. Direct vouchers are just another entitlement program. Let private schools draw from the same money pool that public schools draw, and in exchange, share some of the same mandates: educate a given proportion of special needs students as well – copy the successes of priavate schools. In other words, concentrate on academics – have a recreational program, but transfer some of the expensive team sports, etc) to a complete pay to play situation, financed solely by parents who want their children to participate in those extra curricular activities.

    Re your cancer analogy – Given my experiences with the medical professionn, my care provider of choice would be my dog’s veterinarian. Our health care delivery system really sucks. we’ll have to work on that once we get the schools issue solved.

    Re the car analogy: Every parent thinks their child is a Mercedes or Porsche, and deserves extra special, individualized attention. That’s the way they should feel. But it’s more complex than that. Are you sugesting more specialization is the answer? should we try to allow students to take classes at various schools that would play to their strengths – for instance, take some classes at a private school, take some at a public schools, etc.- or have separate academies for students (math academies for those gifted in math, art, music, academies,
    etc.)

    I don’t think vouchers advance the objective of approving the education system, and I don’t think they even really advance the question of “choice”. They just become another entitlement, with schools then competing for voucher money, rather than competing for students. I think the answer lies in approaching the structure, the whole framework holistically.

  125. 162

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    hardovertoport:

    You’re right, every parent thinks there kid is Porsche (mine are!) AND every parent knows their kid the best and knows what’s best of their kid.

    I know my 1st kid is a self starter – he/she did fine in (the limited time) public school because he/she has been known to demand to be taught something he/she didn’t understand because that’s the ‘teachers job”.

    Kid #2 is a bright as a penny, but had to be ‘encouraged’ to care.

    Kid #3 also bright as a penny, but never had to actually WORK to get great grades, so simply wouldn’t work, would put it off till last moment or simply not turn it in.

    I KNOW ALL THAT ABOUT MY KIDS, AND BECAUSE I KNOW THAT I WAS ABLE TO BEST CHOOSE WHAT TYPE OF SCHOOL WOULD BE BEST. My kids have been in Montessori schools, public schools and Catholic schools from preschool through high school.

    ALL parents should have that opportunity, with the blessing of the government and with their own money they have alreaqdy payed through taxes.

    Have you ever bought your wife a “one size fits all” shirt? It didn’t fit, did it?

  126. 164

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Comment by windie— 10/6/05 @ 12:05 am:

    What the hell are you babbling about?

    “Change reality” Been in the New Age Buzz Word Dictionary again or did you just inhale too much ‘incense’?

    “Make me feel better” Sorry, sweetcheeks, my well being is NOT dependant on OTHERS. Get it yet? My well being, my happiness, depends on ME. That is a universal fallacy you nutburgers inevitably fall into… “someone, ANYONE, needs to make me happy, take care of me, whhaaaaaa”. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, sweetcheeks.

    “utter unwillingness to do anything on here in good faith.” OH PLEASE. Your cute little code words for “you won’t change your mind to MY point of view”. GIVE ME A BREAK.

    “learn a bit about self-depreciation”/I> We can depreciate ourselves??? Who knew? Can I deduct the depreciation from my taxes? Can I depreciate my spouse and kids TOO??

    … Or did you mean the word DEPRECATE?

  127. 165

    windie spews:

    @163

    ohhh short term memory, what a loss.

    Its what you idiot rightie trolls do all the time, whether here or elsewhere. You say something, and expect it to be true because you said it. Or maybe you’re just dumb enough to think that you’re always right… Either way, I’m not the one that tries to pass of magical-realism nonsense as whats going on in the world right now.

    Oh also, look is up, stupid.
    http://dictionary.reference.co.....preciation

    I await your mea culpa’s to the fact that it is in fact a word, you didn’t know it, and that you stuck your foot so far into your mouth that its sticking out of your ass in your eagerness to mock.

    You have nothing but stupid insults and your will to be offended.

    PS: Pacman just sent me an email, he says “You tell that moron ProudASS what a fool he is!”

  128. 166

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Sweetcheeks, you aren’t important enough to offend me. Your only limited value to me is you are so grandly mockable and your inestimable ability to amuse me with your MoreOn talking points and progressive Koolaid vomit.

    Tell me one single thing you have ever THOUGHT FOR YOURSELF. One little conclusion about life, politics, morals, anything.

    Now, I realize, being 19 (with the intellectual capacity of 12), never having been actually challenged to think in public schools and having daddy pay the bills at the U while you play Everquest, and annoy adults on blogs, it’s highly likely that you have never before been asked for an original thought.

    But I also realize, that on any subject I could possibly bring up, I will find your “words” a simple parrot of what is written by the fringie extremist faction opposing it.

    Come back when you grow up, babe.

  129. 167

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    BTW, I notice you blithely skipped over the ‘personal responsibility’ part.

    How telling.

  130. 168

    windie spews:

    @166 167 and I notice you skipped acknowledging the fact that I apparently have a bigger vocabulary than you.

    ProudASS, I read your posts… and they’re nothing I haven’t seen before. From what you’ve said, you’re probably in your mid-40’s at least, but for all that, you post like a 21 year old girl in college who considers herself a wit. (And I’ve been around the ‘net enough to know)

    You recycle the same old, used, boring trolling cliche’s over and over, and then throw in the classic geek defenses “You’re angry but I’m not” and “you’re beneath my notice”. And lets not forget that old classic “You’re young, but have the mind of someone even younger.” Its old and tired.

    as to the “personal responsibility” bit, what was there to say? It was a particularly nonsensical attack based on your inability to see people as people, and your reliance on instead seeing them as some kind of insane parody.

    I’ve spent a few minutes looking over the mass of our correspondance here, and all I can say is “I feel bad for your children.”

    They must be so embarassed

  131. 169

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    Snooze fest, sweetcheeks… you are B O R I N G.

    Your attempts at repetitive insults are B O R I N G.

    You attempts to make me feel bad about my spouse, my kids, my faith, my politics are B O R I N G.

    And more important, they are irrelevant.

    You are young, by your own admission and by the tenor of your comments. Some day when you are older, and hopefully have matured a bit, you will learn the world does NOT revolve around you, you will learn the value of personal responsibility and you will learn the value of having the respect of your peers, your elders and your children. You will learn that following the like and lies of Michael Moreon (whose goal is to line his pockets NOT improve the world) and George Soros (whose goal is owning power not improving the world) puts you in the untenable position of having to defend the indefensible. You will learn that the inconsistancy of placing your opinions and values on feelings will serve to show you have no opinions or values, you will have nothing upon which to build the foundation of your life… if that is indeed your goal, as opposed to sucking off the largesse of daddy and/or society (or like the hero Kerry, a couple of rich wives…. but hey, if you have no self-respect I guess being a gigolo is good work, if you can get it).

    Once again, A is A, you can’t be something or stand for something and stand against it at the same time.

    I too have spent a fair amount of time perusing your comments…
    I don’t feel amything about them.
    I AM disgusted about the further proof of the pisspoor education the liberal union thugs are foisting on innocent, empty minds.
    I
    AM discouraged at how easily led these innocent, empty minds are.
    I AM saddened by the lack of personal responsibility.

    But I AM heartened when I see, hear and read courageous young people, such as my children, such as Dinesh D’Souza, Wendy Shalit, Ben Shapiro, Kyle Williams, Brian Yates, Gresham Kay and Mario Sanchez, who are not led around by the nose by the latest fad in liberal ‘feelspeak’ , who think for themselves, who refuse to abdicate their personal responsibility, who are consistent in their beliefs and the philosophies that guide their lives.

  132. 170

    windie spews:

    well, I”m almost 30, but I like to think of myself as young. And my union-thug education is apparently better than yours, if our respective vocabularies mean anything.

    Keep the echochamber going, I’m sure you impress someone.

    Anyone who reads this exchange (all the way back to your crazy ‘I’m being persecuted for my Faith!’ thing) can see who’s right and who’s wrong.

    I’m sure you’ll keep trolling, but you have to know that you’ve exposed yourself pretty badly here.

    And with that, I leave this thread to you. Theres nothing more to be gained here.

  133. 171

    HowCanYouBePROUDtobeAnASS spews:

    (PS, its kinda creepy having to give someone who’s probably 20 years my elder advice on living… but somebody has to do it.) -Comment by windie— 10/6/05 @ 12:05 am

    ProudASS, I read your posts… and they’re nothing I haven’t seen before. From what you’ve said, you’re probably in your mid-40’s at least, -Comment by windie— 10/6/05 @ 11:02 am

    well, I”m almost 30,-Comment by windie— 10/6/05 @ 12:10 pm

    Ah, the glories of public education andu nion thug math strikes again… or more typical so much liberal bullshit spewed can’t keep your story straight.

    Tough call.