Firing People to End the Recession

The recession is still bad. So what should Washington do about it according to The Seattle Times? Make sure to fire people!

The Times recently reported that state full-time equivalent jobs are down a total of 7 percent in fiscal 2010 and 2011. That does not include higher education, which has had few job losses. It includes everything else.

The New York Times reported that? The Times of London? Oh, you mean The Seattle Times. Nobody calls it that, Ryan or possibly Joni. Well that’s pretty terrible for the people involved, don’t you think? I mean at least have a bit of compassion for people who’ll get kicked off work. No? Nothing.

No downturn in decades has been as deep or as long as this. It is news.

I like the implication that if the downturn was as bad as some in the 70’s or 80’s, it wouldn’t be news. Skipping ahead.

There is a thought that the state should not do this — that its layoffs are making the downturn worse, and that it should keep everyone on the payroll. It is a warm thought, but who would pay for it? The state cannot do it with bonds. New taxes on the private sector would probably snuff out as many private jobs as public jobs sustained.

Layoffs are making the downturn worse. Public sector, private sector. It’s not a thought, it’s a fact. The laid off people have less money to spend, they have less money to save and invest. They produce less economic activity. The argument that paying to not lay people off will make the economy even worse, well that’s at least an argument that acknowledges that there are tough choices. But yes, if we lay off teachers, or state patrol or anyone else in the public sector, on top of losing what they do for us, we also lose some of their economic output.

Comments

  1. 1

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    Carl, you are clearly not as appreciative of the Very Serious People as the maker of my puppy’s excrement collector also known as the Seattle Times editorial board.

    From your point of view of Macroeconomics you clearly think 0+0+0=0.
    But had you a better understanding of Macroeconomics more in line with the Very Serious People at the puppy excrement collector known as the Seattle Times (or by those who work there, the ahem, Times) you would know that firing public employees, while reducing aggregate demand and, therefore, worsening the economy in the short run actually inspires the Confidence Fairies.

    Once the Confidence Fairies see we are Very Serious they will dispense jobs and goodness to all the people.
    You see, Carl, attempting to do anything but appease the Confidence Fairies and those who believe in them as strongly as those who believe God talks to them through deadly hurricanes is just more scientific nonsense.

    So, in the mean time, let’s fire some more state & local employees and give the money to those who need it least. The Confidence Fairies like that!

    What are you going to try and tell us next?
    The global climate is not cooling but warming?
    Gay marriage won’t destroy the institution of marriage? No WMD in Iraq?
    That’s funny.

  2. 2

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I think the main point is public workers were hired to do certain things for us, and if we lay them off, those things won’t be done.

    So — which dangerous felons do Ryan/Joni* want to release, because we can’t afford prison guards anymore?

    * Doesn’t matter which one wrote that; they’re fungible.

  3. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @1 “the maker of my puppy’s excrement collector”

    As you so astutely point out, print newspapers still provide vital services.

  4. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Public jobs are carried by the private economy, and the private economy is still weak.”

    — Seattle Times

    If you look closely, when Seattle Times sells subscriptions to public workers, it’s the private company that’s being carried by public jobs.

  5. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I saw this depression coming years ago. Raise your hand if you remember me asking, “If businesses keep outsourcing jobs, laying off workers, and cutting wages, who is going to buy their products?”

  6. 6

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    It’s sad to fire people… period. Many people get hurt in the process. People look down at you for being laid off and you are stigmatized. Unfortunately if you are a great new worker and are producing and overachieving, when the pink slips come and you are in a union, you are cut first. Now why is that?

    Are all those workers hard working in the article? Hmmm…? That’s the issue. When you see seven workers at a public job only one working.

    Remember Obummer told the world the US recession ended Jun 2009!

    0+0+0=0.

    Isn’t that headless irv kupicet lucy’s zero sum game?

  7. 7

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    There is a thought that the state should not do this — that its layoffs are making the downturn worse, and that it should keep everyone on the payroll. It is a warm thought, but who would pay for it? The state cannot do it with bonds. New taxes on the private sector would probably snuff out as many private jobs as public jobs sustained.

    Unfortunately the Times didn’t look at the argument from a progressives eyes. They should went further and suggested if you are a liberal, immediately write that tax check if you disagree with their premise!

  8. 8

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @6 In Puddy’s Magic World, hiring and firing is always based on merit and has nothing to do with age, looks, or who’s willing to spread her legs for the boss …

  9. 10

    spews:

    Person Playing Puddybud @ 6,

    “Remember Obummer told the world the US recession ended Jun 2009!”

    Did you put your character on extra-strength stupid pills today?

    Obama didn’t “tell the world” when the recession ended. The start and end of the recession was determined, as has been done for years, by the National Bureau of Economic Research. From their September 2010 statement:

    The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research met yesterday by conference call. At its meeting, the committee determined that a trough in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in June 2009. The trough marks the end of the recession that began in December 2007 and the beginning of an expansion. The recession lasted 18 months, which makes it the longest of any recession since World War II. Previously the longest postwar recessions were those of 1973-75 and 1981-82, both of which lasted 16 months.

    In determining that a trough occurred in June 2009, the committee did not conclude that economic conditions since that month have been favorable or that the economy has returned to operating at normal capacity. Rather, the committee determined only that the recession ended and a recovery began in that month. A recession is a period of falling economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. The trough marks the end of the declining phase and the start of the rising phase of the business cycle. Economic activity is typically below normal in the early stages of an expansion, and it sometimes remains so well into the expansion.

    (Nutcase PuddyTheory about how the NBER is a liberal tool under the direct command of George Soros starts in five, four, three, …)

  10. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Somebody elect more Republicans so the damn stock market will stop going up. I want to spend my cash.

  11. 13

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    @6 In Puddy’s Magic World, hiring and firing is always based on merit

    You damn right useless tool Roger Dumb Rabbit! What’s wrong with merit Roger Dumb Rabbit?

    and has nothing to do with age, looks, or who’s willing to spread his butt cheeks for the boss …

    Is that how you became a barrister?

  12. 14

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    What’s pussybutt gonna do for kicks when there are no unions left to hate?

    Worked in a union when I was younger Roger Dumb Rabbit. First hand experience on how they act!

  13. 15

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    Now back to Darryl…

    “Today, everybody agrees that the recession is over and the question is what the pace of the expansion is going to be,” Larry Summers, President Obama’s chief economic guru, declared on ABC’s “This Week.” – December 2009

    And we know nothing comes from Obummerland without prior approval!

  14. 16

    nwgal spews:

    @4 – Not to mention the inconvenient truth that without public sector jobs, the private sector WOULD CEASE TO EXIST.
    Not that the nutters can see past their dumbass Randian religion to understand such a simple truth. Of course, if they’re too stupid to understand that it’s THEM the book they love so much is deriding, the fact that capitalism requires government is far too much for their tiny heads to comprehend.

  15. 17

    nwgal spews:

    @13 – Rabbit didn’t say that there’s anything WRONG with merit, moron, only that it is not the force in the private sector you claim it is. Look at the power of nepotism, for example. That alone accounts for 6 of Forbes 10 Richest Americans.
    Merit is a great thing. The private sector could use more of it.

  16. 18

    spews:

    What’s pussybutt gonna do for kicks when there are no unions left to hate?

    Same as he did when Teddy Kennedy and Robert Byrd passed. Find something else to hate. Like that would take more than a nano-second. No end of stuff. There’s

    -> -> S O R O S <- <-

    there's Obama (of course), Pelosi, Reid, Debbie Wasserman-Schulz, Al Gore, any Dem from Chicago, any Dem who's held a fundraiser in Hollywood, any reporter from the NY Times or any other newspaper or periodical based in a Dem-leaning city…

    There's never a shortage of people to hate for a right wing ding nutcase.

  17. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @13 In a union shop, you get paid for the job you do, not how good-looking you are.

    “Physically attractive women and men earn more than average-looking ones, and very plain people earn less.”

    http://www.economist.com/node/21526782

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Uh-oh!! I PLAGIARIZED “The Economist” again!!! I’m gonna get in TROUBLE for that!!!!

  18. 21

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @14 I’m not surprised you couldn’t make it in union employment. To be a union member, you have to show up, you have to work, and you have to do the job right.

  19. 23

    spews:

    To the Person Playing Puddybud @ 15,

    What the fuck is your character babbling about? That “rebuttal” makes no sense whatsoever.

    Or, perhaps, it was your intention to be dishonest.

    Let me put it this way. Using dishonest PuddyLogic I’ll make the claim that YOU told us the US recession ended Jun 2009. (It’s right there in comment 6!)

    (On the more positive side, you’ve done a fine job portraying your character as a dishonest jackass!)

  20. 25

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @22 I think he’s trying to allege that Professor Summers is the kind of person who’s willing to work in a job where he has to get clearance from somebody on the political staff before he can say anything to the press about what the economy is doing.

  21. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Like I said, the Two Stooges, of whom puddy is the ringleader and bartertown is his loyal sycophant.

  22. 27

    spews:

    Roger Rabbit,

    ” I think he’s trying to allege that Professor Summers is the kind of person who’s willing to work in a job where he has to get clearance from somebody on the political staff before he can say anything to the press about what the economy is doing.”

    I’m still trying to figure out how a statement by Summers that “…everybody agrees that the recession is over” in December of 2009 is “evidence” that “[Obama] told the world the US recession ended Jun 2009.”

  23. 28

    yd spews:

    How many Public jobs have been outsourced to India to save tax dollars for the citizens…Hmmmmm

  24. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @26 I’ll concede that figuring out what the building in the most recent Bird’s Eye View contest was, and where it was, tied me into fewer knots that puddy’s latest prestidigitation. You gotta give it to puttybutt, Darryl — the guy’s quite a magician. Of course, in the tabloid press, the idea that the recession never ended and we’re still in it has long since passed into the vernacular — technical definitions be damned! Combine that with the fact someone like putz gets his “economics” from the likes of Newsmax and from there it’s only a long leap across a yawning chasm to the conclusion that the Obama administration “fixes” facts to economic policy in the same way the Bush administration “fixed” WMD “facts” to its warmongering impulses …

  25. 30

    Michael spews:

    @6

    Unfortunately if you are a great new worker and are producing and overachieving, when the pink slips come and you are in a union, you are cut first. Now why is that?

    I’ve worked plenty of places that were non-union and were also last in-first out. A buddy of mine just lost his non-union job. Same deal: last in-first out.

  26. 31

    Michael spews:

    @15
    Fuck, you caught me. How did you know I get all my posts on here approved by Obama’s political folks before posting them?

  27. 33

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @31 Who, me? Nah, just a fucking stock-flipping, freeloading, public-teat-sucking, American war veteran, shyster-lawyer capitalist rabbit who has enough sense of self-preservation to vote Democratic.

  28. 35

    yd spews:

    Any idiot that can spend 4.6 Trillion more than he takes in in just 2.5 years, should have Bernie Maddoff on his staff. They could keep any market or country alive.

    For a few years till the ponzi scheme collapses

  29. 37

    TomDarien spews:

    19. Which explains why the ugly looking Rabbit earned less than others.

    Rabbit: Looks aren’t anything and in your case,your looks are nothing :)

    Sorry, pal you are one ugly bunny.

  30. 38

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    Rabbit didn’t say that there’s anything WRONG with merit, moron, only that it is not the force in the private sector you claim it is.

    Apparently nwgal hasn’t been reading Roger Dumb Rabbit comments on this board. Every time he makes a commentary conjecture there is subterfuge there.

    Look at the power of nepotism, for example. That alone accounts for 6 of Forbes 10 Richest Americans.

    And what does that have to do with the equation? Nice train derailment! Oh that’s how nwgal got “her” job. I wholeheartedly believe in merit. As a manager that’s how I hire, not on nepotism etc.

  31. 39

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    In Perfessor DarrylWorld no one needs approval to speak for Obummer’s administration. Butt that wasn’t the leftist primary argument during the GWBush administration during the firing of the eight U.S. attorneys. The argument was it was orchestrated and approved direct from the whitey house and the emails were deleted to cover it up.

    Progressives, will say what they want when it’s convenient for them but will throw a hissy fit when you use it against them.

    Larry Summers was Obummer’s economic mouthpiece plain and simple!

    Oh and then Roger Dumb Rabbit comments above when he wrote this:

    My stock portfolio hit an all-time high last week — clearly the recession is over

    ROTFLMBBAO!

    Then Art The Fart wrote this about people saying the recession is over

    Except….oh, yeah. Ben Bernanke. Remember him?

    Then the is Cass Sunstein’s favorite northwest idiot rhp6033

    And Goldy’s post is essentially true – that regardless of the details, a President usually gets the credit for a significant uptick in the economy

    Then there is this Roger Dumb Rabbitism

    Speaking of stocks, the market is up today on economic data showing a 3.8% growth rate in the last quarter, the strongest signal yet that the recession is over.

    So you see you leftists damn yourselves with the recession is over commentary. It had to be from those left wrong sites you all love to visit daily!

    Gotta go. Time to makes some money, something many HA libtardos loath!

  32. 40

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    All that without the crazed HA databaze!

  33. 41

    rhp6033 spews:

    Puddy @ 39: “…Gotta go. Time to makes some money, something many HA libtardos loath!

    Gee, for the last month or two, we got all these posts about how you were “visiting great American cities”.

    Tired of riding the rails? Did the railroad security guards give you a thumping and warn you not to tresspass on railroad property again? Or did you find hitch-hiking to be too hard, when people who vote like you won’t stop to pick up a black man?

  34. 42

    spews:

    To the Person Playing Puddybud @ 39,

    “In Perfessor DarrylWorld no one needs approval to speak for Obummer’s administration.”

    Dude, why the fuck have your character tell a lie? Please ask him where have I ever asserted such a thing?

    “Butt that wasn’t the leftist primary argument during the GWBush administration during the firing of the eight U.S. attorneys. The argument was it was orchestrated and approved direct from the whitey house and the emails were deleted to cover it up.”

    I cannot make head or tails out of your character’s childish prattle. What the fuck does the U.S. Attorney firing scandal have to do with anything being discussed?

  35. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @42 It appears the incoherent fool is trying to string together a bunch of out-of-context quotes from scattered previous posts to claim that several liberal commenters stated in the aggregate that the 2009 recession ended in 2009, or something like that.

  36. 45

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    I cannot make head or tails out of your character’s childish prattle. What the fuck does the U.S. Attorney firing scandal have to do with anything being discussed?

    Man this character playing a “perfesser” has no clue of “things”. When Republicans claimed Bush had nothing to do with the attorney firings, libtardos claimed he did and claimed this firing decision had to come from the highest levels. Wanna see the Google searches? Naaah you can do it yourself or have one of your HA flunkies do it!

    So I claim the same privilege here used by libtardos. No way would Larry Summer make that statement without approvals from the highest levels.

    Is that clear enough perfesser moron?

  37. 46

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    @42 It appears the incoherent fool is trying to string together a bunch of out-of-context quotes from scattered previous posts to claim that several liberal commenters stated in the aggregate that the 2009 recession ended in 2009, or something like that.

    Wrong again Roger Dumb Rabbit, but you are smarter than the average UW anthro perfesser. These are not out of context posts. They were direct from libtardos cheering the fact Obummer “ended” the recession.

    Too bad your words are easily found on Google!

  38. 47

    Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    Gee, for the last month or two, we got all these posts about how you were “visiting great American cities”.

    Oh rhp6033… I have been working in all those cities with a little vacation mixed in. My hotel points are adding up nicely!

  39. 48

    spews:

    47. Puddybud, identifying northwest liberals who elected an underexperienced man to the presidency weighed down by an oversized ego spews:

    Gee, for the last month or two, we got all these posts about how you were “visiting great American cities”.

    Oh rhp6033… I have been working in all those cities with a little vacation mixed in. My hotel points are adding up nicely!

    08/30/2011 at 5:00 pm

    Motherfucking loon.

  40. 49

    Michael spews:

    @47

    Oh rhp6033… I have been working in all those cities with a little vacation mixed in. My hotel points are adding up nicely!

    Have you been to Pittsburgh? There’s a really cool rails to trails project that runs from Pittsburgh all the way to Washington DC. I’m thinking about biking it next year. Not sure if I should plan a couple of days of sight seeing in Pittsburgh or not.

    http://www.atatrail.org/

    Biking the Eire Canal- Buffalo to Troy NY next fall for sure.

  41. 51

    spews:

    Person Playing Puddybud,

    “When Republicans claimed Bush had nothing to do with the attorney firings, libtardos claimed he did and claimed this firing decision had to come from the highest levels.”

    Indeed. But this seem entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    “Wanna see the Google searches?”

    Since I’ve not disputed the AG point I have no interest in hearing about your google searches.

    “So I claim the same privilege here used by libtardos.”

    You can, indeed. But it is entirely irrelevant. And the situations are not even analogous (not that it matters).

    “No way would Larry Summer make that statement without approvals from the highest levels.”

    So? Why is Summer’s statement even relevant?

    “Is that clear enough perfesser moron?”

    No. You just pulled shit out of your ass that is entirely meaningless.

    You claimed that Obama declared the end of the recession. He didn’t. (Hint: that’s not how recession beginnings and ends are determined.) And by extension, a second-order statement (from Summers) doesn’t change things.

    You seem to be very confused, and seem to lack a fundamental understanding of how a recession is defined.

  42. 52

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @45 “When Republicans claimed Bush had nothing to do with the attorney firings, libtardos claimed he did and claimed this firing decision had to come from the highest levels.”

    You’d have a hard time finding a jury that wouldn’t draw this inference.

    One of the things juries do, btw, is determine the credibility of witnesses; and no lawyer worth a damn would ever allow George W. Bush to take a witness stand anywhere, anytime, in any case.

  43. 53

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @46 “libtardos cheering the fact Obummer ‘ended’ the recession”

    Holy shit, did you really say that?

  44. 54

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @48 He’s too stupid to be a motherfucker. The most he could manage is fondling her.

  45. 56

    Steve spews:

    @42 “I cannot make head or tails out of your character’s childish prattle.”

    But I thought you said that you had a decoder ring? Or perhaps it was that you said that you needed one. Hmm. Regardless, I’ve repeatedly told everyone here that you have one so I apologize if you don’t. Damn. That’d leave not a single, solitary soul in the cesspool who has so much as a clue as to WTF the self-loathing loon is babbling on and on about.

  46. 57

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @56 I ran it through my computer’s decoder software and it came back as follows:

    Because the Bushies’ firing of U.S. attorneys was ordered at the highest levels, ergo, it follows that a government statistical bureau was ordered by Obama to declare the recession over.

    In other words, putz sees a cause-and-effect relationship between the U.S. attorney firings and the recession.

  47. 58

    spews:

    Steve @ 56,

    “But I thought you said that you had a decoder ring?”

    I did. But my most recent comment about the Puddy Decoder ring (in April of 2010) was:

    A superficial scan of your character’s message suggests a very low signal to noise ratio. I would be happy to read a revised comment written in intelligible English, but I’m too busy and uninterested to hunt down my Puddy Decoder Ring and slog through the decryption….

    I’m still entirely uninterested in anything Puddybud says; certainly, too uninterested to bother hunting it down.

    Seriously, I don’t believe the person playing Puddybud believes 3/4 of the crap he posts here. It is just a game to him. He’s a total fake.

    These days I just tweak him now and then to watch him spiral into a cesspool of illogical babble. Works every time! :-)