Finkbeiner to vote for HB 1515

I have it from a reliable source that state Sen. Bill Finkbeiner has told the 45th District Republicans that he intends to vote for HB 1515, the anti-discrimination bill. The bill failed by a single vote during the last session, when as Senate minority leader, Finkbeiner and the entire Republican caucus voted nay.

If true, this would be a huge victory for gay rights in WA state. And if Finkbeiner votes his conscience, I’d expect to see at least one or two other Republican senators switch their votes as well.

Ooops. Apparently, Progressive Majority beat me to the story.


  1. 1

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Looks like Finky is running scared and is gonna welsh on his caucus. Even Republicans are finding out they can’t trust a Republican!

  2. 2

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Vietnam war helicopter pilot Hugh Thompson Jr., reviled by rightwing militarists for stopping the slaughter of Vietnamese villagers at My Lai by threatening to shoot the American troops who were killing the unarmed civilians, died today in a VA hospital of cancer at age 62.

    Three decades after the incident, the Army grudgingly recognized Thompson’s principled stand against murder by reluctantly awarding him the Soldier’s Medal.

    The bells rang in Heaven tonight as a man of peace entered.

  3. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Time Magazine reported today that GOP ex-congressman Duke Cunningham cooperated with authorities to take down others involved in the bribery scandal that sent him to prison.

    “Sources familiar with the situation say Cunningham … wore a wire …. The identity of those with whom the San Diego congressman met while wearing the wire … is the source of furious — and nervous — speculation by congressional Republicans.”

  4. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    The Associated Press reports that “House Republicans are clamoring for new election-year leadership, and indicted Rep. Tom DeLay’s hopes of returning to power as floor leader are dwindling. … Speaker Dennis Hastert … signaled he would not try to block the rank-and-file from acting. … Other officials said an announcement on new elections could come within a few days.”

  5. 6

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “An estimated 11 million people in the Horn of Africa ‘are on the brink of starvation’ because of severe drought and war, with some deaths already being reported in Kenya, the United Nations said Friday.”

    But hey, they’re poor and therefore immoral, and they’re also b black — so good riddance, right MTR?

  6. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hmmm, I can’t remember whether the nazi is prr, or puddybutt, or some other trollfuck.

    What the hell — they’re all nazis.

  7. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Roger Rabbit has posted 100% of the comments on this thread. If you don’t like that and you’re horny, go fuck an armadillo. If you don’t like that but you’re not horny, the armadillo will be happy to fuck you, because he is.

  8. 11

    Donnageddon spews:

    You know, given the hell that the neocon Republicfuckers have ravaged on this country, and the difficult task it will be to return the USA back to fiscal responsibility, foriegn policy sanity, and respect in the eyes of the international community (re. the rest of the people on the only planet we have), I must say news about how the Republicfuckers are wearing wires, and turning informant on each other is very satisfying news.

    Add to that the incredible embarrassment and estrangement from descent folk that this gives to the HA trollfucks and you have the making of a great 2006.

    May they reap the hellish delights they wished upon us all.

    And to them I say “Fuck You!”

  9. 12

    cougar spews:

    Imagine that, a GOPPer wearing a wire to catch some of his own. I LOVE IT……Bring the whole criminal bunch down NOW

  10. 15

    PacMan spews:

    Roger: While I was gone on family business and you forgot about me? Wow, I am saddened at this.

    Donnageddon: Yes the Republicans are in the goo. Interesting take in Colorado on this. You can Google it at your leisure.

    For all the lefties here: I support Cunningham cleaning up his act. If he nails scumbags so be it. If this causes the Repubs to lose Congress so be it. I will have a large lump in my throat seeing the tax and spenders (see the Kerry 2004 presidential platform) reappear, trying to tax our way unto prosperity.

    With unemployment at 4.9%, this is the best it has been over all the Clinton years. You can’t say the economy is going well. If the Repubs lose, watch the unemployment rate and the Fed rate both rise within months of the Dems taking over Congress.

  11. 16

    sgmmac spews:

    The best cure for high prices is high prices. When you raise taxes, consumers cut spending, which lowers prices and slows the economy.

  12. 17

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I’m with you 100%. Accountable government must be a top priority NO MATTER WHO FALLS. The problem is the LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS and the obliging scumbag journalists don’t seem to care about the truth and the whole truth. Just look at Patty Murray. Giving money back now DOES NOT obsolve her of taking it in the first place. Don’t something wrong, give the money back and expect ZERO consequences or worse yet be hailed as some heroine by the KLOWNS???? I don’t think so.
    Congress needs a good purging…on both sides. On the other hand, we need to convict people based on evidence….not Blog rumors and innuendo. This is a very serious time for our Country. It needs to be handled the right way….fair trials. And remember, people who are busted & facing jailtime often fudge on the truth to get a lighter sentence for themselves. Look at some of the Enron crowd. Get all the facts…the judge and dish out consequences. Unfortunately, the court of public opinion will be swayed by sensationalism masked as “journalism”.
    Too many “editorials” in news stories for way too long.

  13. 18

    Donnageddon spews:


    I will have a large lump in my throat seeing the tax and spenders … reappear, trying to tax our way unto prosperity.

    I again defy ANYONE to find a more fiscally responsible economic plan than “tax and Spend”. This “Spend and Borrow from our Grandchildren” insanity of the neocons is the biggest disaster our country has faced since the Hoover (Republican) administration.

    With unemployment at 4.9%, this is the best it has been over all the Clinton years.


    The Clinton Years:

    1993 6.9
    1994 6.1
    1995 5.6
    1996 5.4
    1997 4.9
    1998 4.5
    1999 4.2
    2000 4.0

    Average Unemployment rate = 5.2%

    The Disaster (Bush) Years:

    2001 4.7
    2002 5.8
    2003 6
    2004 5.5
    2005 5.1

    Bush Disaster average unemplyment rate = 5.4 %

    If the Repubs lose, watch the unemployment rate and the Fed rate both rise within months of the Dems taking over Congress.

    There will be no easy fix for the disasterous economic policies of the neocon years, just beginning to pay off the massive debt will be painful, but your predictions (based upon your incorrect analyisis of the past) are worthless.

  14. 20

    Thor spews:

    The real test will once again be whether there even is a vote on HB 1515 in the Senate this year. Expect Luke Esser and Mike Hewitt to use every parlimentary tool available to keep enactment of the law off the floor. They need to do this for the extreme right wing religious fundamentalists who control the state Senate’s GOP.

    The odds are long that the bill will actually come up for a vote in the Senate in a short session. But that might be OK. The GOP lockdown in the Senate against protecting gay people from discrimination – just like the state’s civil rights laws already protect everyone else from discrimination – will be enough to takedown a number of GOP Senators. Big money has already been raised to target the representatives of the state church wing like Esser.

    Esser and Hewitt show every sign of making it easy. The strategy could cost them the Finkbeiner seat too, because even though he might be able to say he opposes discrimination against gay people now – when his vote mattered, (the only time in 30 years that it was brought to a vote on the Senate floor) Finkbeiner sided with the pro-discrimination religionists and defended his entire wacky caucus.

  15. 21

    Donnageddon spews:

    It always amazes me how the AssClowns of the right think they can get away with throwing bullshit “facts” out, and that they will not be quickly be trumped by the truth.

    This ain’t the O’Reilly or Hannity show, where you own the mic and can squeltch the truth.

    Goldy own’s the mic, and your lies will be quickly demolished before your Kool Aid drunk eyes.

  16. 22

    Voter Advocate spews:


    The AP-Ipsos poll also found:

    Bush approval 40%, disapproval 59%

    “Should the Bush administration be required to get a warrant from a judge before monitoring phone and internet communications between American citizens in the United States and suspected terrorists, or should the government be allowed to monitor such communications without a warrant?”

    Should be requred to get a warrant – 56%
    Should be allowed to monitor without
    a warrant – 42%

  17. 23

    Donnageddon spews:

    New Poll Numbers:

    Should Defiance of Congress and the Constitution of the United States be Grounds for Presidential Impeachment?

    Yes – 100%
    No – 0%

    This is a scientific poll based on interviews with Donnageddon. The Poll has an error rate of +/- 0%

  18. 24

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    We already have an anti discrimination bill. It was called I-200. Why do we need another one?

  19. 25

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    DonnaGeddon knows those numbers comparing Clinton & Bush were hugely impacted by:
    1) The Technology Bubble exploding. It was a FALSE economy to begin with. I got out of technology stocks in the very 1st week of 2000. Yeah, I missed about 800 additional points….and felt the urge to jump back in…but didn’t. I watched a lot of optimistic people like GBS with all their eggs in one basket lose 90% of their net worth or more….riding it down, jumping in & out etc. Clinton got a HUGE ride on this bubble, just like Bush is getting a ride on the Housing bubble. But a house is something tangible….a lot of the Technology Bubble was purely smoke-and-mirrors.
    2) 9/11
    3) NAFTA and GAT signed by DonnaG’s buddy BILL CLINTON!!

    If you want to complain about the Country’s economy DonnaG, factor in these 3 items first bonehead. NAFTA & GAT have been the most destructive to the very fibre of our Country. That’s why I’m not much of a Republican….they were all in on this one (R’s and D’s)! I was watching a monstrous Chinese container ship come in the other day. Sad. But I buy some of their shit too.

    DonnaG…trying to boost Clinton up as some model of “Success” to compare Bush with is hollow. Perhaps you feel it boosts your agenda….but Clinton is every bit as bad as Bush on your areas of concern. We will pay the price for NAFTA and GAT for a long, long time. Clinton is clever. He knew there were be a “time-lag” on the impact….so he could quote the stats you are quoting. Don’t be a sucker…sucker.

  20. 26

    Donnageddon spews:

    Mr Cyn-Irr said:

    1. Bla Bla phony excuses, bla bla
    2. 9/11… “never saw that heppening!
    3. “NAFTA and GAT signed by DonnaG’s buddy BILL CLINTON!!” Two reasons Bill CLinton is NO FRIEND OF DONNAGEDDONS!

    If you want to complain about the Country’s economy DonnaG, factor in these 3 items first bonehead. NAFTA & GAT have been the most destructive to the very fibre of our Country. That’s why I’m not much of a Republican….they were all in on this one (R’s and D’s)!

    Same reason I am not much of a Democrat, and no friend of Bill Clinton.

    DonnaG…trying to boost Clinton up as some model of “Success” to compare Bush with is hollow

    Facts are “hollow”? I disagree! But comparing Bill CLinton to Little Georgie “The Killer” Bush is all we have.

    Bush is nothing but a tax and borrow killing machine thug in comparison.

    We will pay the price for NAFTA and GAT for a long, long time. Clinton is clever

    what happened to “they were all in on this one (R’s and D’s)!”???

    Don’t be a sucker.. sucker. Clinton was no saviour, but compared to Bush he was Jesus Fucking Christ.

  21. 28

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Not much to discuss–
    I’m disgusted by the borrow-and-squander tactics just as much as the tax-and-squander tactics. 1994 was a very good year. In some areas, things have steadily spiraled since. However, I do not see it as all doom-and-gloom. Home ownership is at astronomically high levels. That is good. When people own their own homes they take more of an interest in the economy. Is there anything wrong with millions & millions more people owning their own homes?
    The other huge problem I see is consumer debt. People are rolling credit cards, refinancing homes etc. to the point it could all collapse. Didn’t Murray & Cantwell take bucks from the credit card company’s??

    Look, I’m a fiscal conservative Libertarian if labels are all that important. I have never been a blind defender of Bush. I do agree the war on terror needs to be fought on foreign soil…not ours. It’s amazing to me their have been no terrorism-related deaths on our home-turf since 911. If Kerry or Gore were President, I don’t believe that would be the case.

  22. 29

    Donnageddon spews:

    BTW, Mr. Cyn-Irr, Bush could get rid of NAFTA much more easily than wiretapping US citizens. And he could do it legally!

  23. 31

    Donnageddon spews:

    sgmmac, retroactively rescind the tax cuts for the wealthiest 2% of Americans.

    Aggressively investigate Iraq war profiteering, and repatriation of all ill-gotten gains. Remove troops form Iraq (supplanted by UN peace-keeping forces). Confiscate all monies hidden in off shore accounts by the leadership of Enron, Worldcom, etc.

    Balanced budget, with an emphasis on keeping all social contract commitments.

    Massive investment in non-fossil fuel energy sources (ie. burning neocons for warmth during particular rough winters)

    National investment in Star Trek Collectible Plates and D ‘n D pewter figurines.

    … just for a start.

    I will need some time to gather a committee of experts.

  24. 32

    Donnageddon spews:

    Oh.. and all Wall Street traders must pay $50/day rentals for the mandatory clown suits.

  25. 33

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    On the 1515 thing… can any of you moonbats explain why someone should get special privileges because of who they fuck?

  26. 34

    bartelby spews:

    MTR @ 32 — Prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation isn’t “adding special privileges,” dumb ass. It’s merely recognizing that such discrimination, just like discrimination on the basis of religion, age, disability, etc., is wrong, and should be prohibited under the law. If Mary Cheney and Chelsea Clinton were applying for the same job, for instance, Clinton shouldn’t be given special consideration on the basis of her heterosexuality.

    That’s just common sense, as reflected by polls showing that a growing number of Americans (esp. younger Americans) agree. If the GOP wants to continue to be left behind by history on this one, you’re welcome to it.

  27. 35

    Tom Johnson spews:

    Gosh Mark, you are homophobic as well as sexist. Surprise they go hand in hand.

    Is that because gay men have twats?

    By the way – those are the old gay baiting talking points from ten years ago. The equal rights means special rights thing. Even the ultra right gave that shit up as too silly to keep chanting.

    If you have been fired because of you sex life, how is that a privledge?

    And, so interesting, good data suggest that almost 40 percent of thse so fired are straight, BUT presumed to be gay, ie. wrong hair, ear jewelry, ring on the wrong hand, and then there is the lisp and the walk. You know, the direct correlations that science minds like yours would use.

    All the femmie straight boys can tell us about that situation, Mr C?

    And judging from some of your postst Mark, you over compensate, thus, some employer might speculate. Now that would be a special right, right?

    These protections against discrimination already exist in Spokand, Tacoma, Seattle, King and Callam counties – Tumwater, Burien, and other places.

    This long over due law will just set a state wide standard.

    Of course Pat Robertson will blame the devil and suggest the sky will indeed fall.

    AND, thank God, many of the handsome and best homos, male and female, will still migrate to Seattle to enrich our gay friendly city.

  28. 36

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    NO phobia here Tom. I think they’re weird, but I’m certainly not afraid of them. I just think everyone ought to be treated the same. Giving special rights to someone based on who they fuck is just plain stoopid.

  29. 37

    Donnageddon spews:

    MTR, I think the point is: What “specxial rights” are you referring to?

    Was the 13th amendment to the US constitution a “special right”?

    I mean, beyond the whacky judicial activism used to make corporations “people” under that amendmenent.

  30. 38

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “Roger: While I was gone on family business and you forgot about me? Wow, I am saddened at this.”

    Who the hell are you? Do I know you? I don’t think so. What do you want, money?

  31. 39

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    “The best cure for high prices is high prices. When you raise taxes, consumers cut spending, which lowers prices and slows the economy.”

    It’s been my experience that when you raise prices, consumers cut spending, which slows the economy, which lowers employment without lowering prices.

  32. 40

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    16 (continued)

    Dearie, here’s a lesson in Econ 101. Prices don’t go up because of taxes, they go up because of lack of taxes. That is, when the government runs the printing press and puts more money in circulation (this is called “deficit spending”), you have more dollars chasing the same amount of goods and services, consequently each dollar is worth less in real purchasing power, which results in a rise of nominal prices. Real prices haven’t necessarily gone up, but real wages have gone down, because your paycheck is worth less. This leads to worker demands for higher nominal wages, which leads to businesses raises nominal prices in order to pay higher nominal wages, which leads to a phenomenon called “cost-push inflation,” which leads to further demands for higher wages, which leads businesses to further raise prices, which leads to …

    In other words, deficit spending is bad. Soooo … why would any rational person — especially a person living on, say, a military pension — support the biggest deficit-spending party in the history of the universe?

  33. 42

    Drew4PeaceNow spews:

    1515 and this year in the Senate:
    I have no doubt but that 1515 will come to a vote in the senate this year. Just look at how that came about last year. Even though Tim Sheldon voted against the bill on final passage, he would not vote to block bringing it to the floor and there is no reason to think he will vote any other way this year. And, if Fink is going to suck it up and vote yes on final passage for whatever reason, then it would be in conflict with his reasoning to support preceedural blockage of the bill.
    So if the news about Fink is true then I have no doubt that the bill will come to the floor and pass. This bringing of greater equality to our states statutes is long overdue. It is time to move forward even now just as it was 10 years ago.

  34. 43

    thor spews:

    Hey MTR.

    1515 has little to do with what happens in the bedroom (or where ever sex happens.) It is all about the state condoning discrimination against someone who needs housing, a job or a loan based on their sexual orientation, or perceptions about it. The state’s civil rights law already provides these protections based on race, gender, marital status, religion, disabilities etc. – perhaps not “moonbats” – I’d need to check.

    The problem is that no one in the state Senate GOP voted to include “sexual orientation” no matter what that orientation is (even though a few GOP Senators seem to its the right thing to do) in the state’s civil rights bill. And then the caucus produced rhetoric to change the subject: they said they voted that way as a defense against gay marriage. Which is just plain silly and made our entire state look like a bunch of, well, i guess you’d say “moonbats.”

    It was a chance of a lifetime (30 years to think about it) to put this issue behind them – but if you look at the roster of GOP senators you’ll quickly understand that there’s a rare spring chicken amoung them. And sometimes our elders embarrass us – its a fact of life. (But age is already protected from discrimination in our state.) But this state Senate GOP made their dunderheadedness on this issue headline news around the world. (It was all over the place while I was on business in Asia.)

    This is an odd position for the pro-business GOP. Practically every large business operating in our state – and nation – has added protections for employees from discrimination based on sexual orientation to their employment policies well within the last 30 years: Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks, Home Depot, Costco and many more – even the big Hanford contractor CH2M Hill over in Eastern Washington.

    These large companies have these policies because they know they’re good for business – here and around the world. It is a rare Fortune 500 company that doesn’t get this. I think Exxon-Mobile is one big company that still doesn’t include “sexual orientation” within its employment policies – a product of the merger.

    Condoning discrimination in any form is bad for business. Our state’s Senate GOP condones discrimination against a whole class of people – and then communicates to the rest of the world that they think we’re all dumb enough to confuse employment, lending and job protections with gay marriage. But the message they really send is that they are the only people confused on this subject. GOP Governors all over the country are already upholding these laws and 100s GOP Senators in other state have happily voted for them. Just none in Washington.

    The way I understand it, about the only organized groups that oppose 1515 are the leadership of the Catholic Church in our state (simply chanelling policies from Rome) and a few very vocal fundamentalist christian leaders who decry 1515 because for them its about what they call the “gay agenda” – which is a fantasy of their own making designed to scare their flock and keep their fundraising going.

    1515 doesn’t punish you for anything you think is “weird.” Your views are untouched by 1515. It is simple a step toward making sure everyone is “treated the same” when it comes to basics like housing, jobs and lending, period.

    The really dumb thing about the state Senate GOP’s unanimous position condoning discrimination is that polls last winter showed most people in the state believed that we’ve already taken that step and outlawed discrimation based sexual orientation (something like 80% thought this) – that is until newspaper headlines and an enormous amount of international media coverage embarrassed us, them and our leading corporation – advertising the fact that the there wasn’t one GOP senator in the state who could find it within themselves to vote for something that’s a pretty basic business practice That was really bad for business.

    And that makes our state Senate GOP’s idiocy on this issue – everyone’s business.

  35. 44

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Drew – So splain to me the morality of giving special privilege based on who you fuck? I don’t understand…

  36. 45

    thor spews:


    1515 won’t have any impact on your rights to think whatever you want. And it has next to no effect on what happens in any bedroom or whatever others places people have sex between consenting adults.

    It would simply add “sexual orientation” to the state’s civil rights laws, which already protect people from discrimination in housing, employment and lending based on things like race, gender, age, religion, disabilities etc. – not sure “moonbats” are protected, I’d need to check. Its not a protection that is any more special that any other protected class, which includes just about everyone. And everyone has a sexual orientation, don’t they? Even if they don’t have sex.

    Here’s the deal. Our state Senate GOP has been bad for business on this topic. They’ve had over 30 years to think about how to vote on this measure and haven’t changed their collective view in over 30 years. (Although some are said to favor 1515, not a single one of them has proven it yet.) GOP Governors all over the nation are happily enforcing these protections – including the Mormon Governor of Massachusettes. 100s of GOP legislators all over the nation have voted for similar laws. Just not one in Washington. Good grief. It’s a basic.

    This behaviour from the state Senate GOP despite the fact that over the past 30 years most every Fortune 500 company in America has added “sexual orientation” to employment policies that signal fair treatement. Boeing, Microsoft, Starbucks and others in our state included. Even the big Hanford contractor CH2MHill over in Eastern Washington. They include these policies for one reason: they are good for business.

    They way I understand it the only organized opposition to 1515 in the state is from leadership of the Catholic Church (taking instructions from Rome) and a few vocal right wing christian clergy, along with a political action committee that raises funding saying it will stop the “gay agenda” – which is a fantasy of their own invention designed to sacre the flock to donate to the cause.

    So here’s what our state Senate GOP did last year – all of them. Last winter polls showed that adding “sexual orientation” to civil rights laws was something we’d already done. So our state Senate GOP comes along and creates worldwide headlines (not just news in Washington state) demonstrating that not one GOP Senator in the state supports what most people think is a basic business practice. And then they had the audacity to think people would belive that all they were doing was defending marriage, when any dope can figure out that 1515 had nothing to do with marriage. The result: they demonstrated that the state Senate GOP is bad for business and stupid.

    It was a worldwide embarrasement. It implicated our leading employer in a bad way. And that makes it everyone’s business. Let’s hope that more than Finkbeiner correct this in 2006. These dunderheads in the Senate GOP need to be taken to the woodshed on this. Or thrown out of office.

  37. 46

    Drew4PeaceNow spews:

    41 Dearest MTR
    Anyone caught fucking in the work place should be fired. Not just when they elect to fuck who or what you would not choose to. As a good redneck for instance, if you brought your horse in from home and had him fuck you in the office then I think you should be fired. But if all this fucking goes on with at least some desecration then only you redneck horse fuckers should be fired.
    This is unless Pam’s horse bill excludes horses over a certain age.
    I hope this helps clear up an obvious dilemma for you.

  38. 48

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    If it’s “good for business” as you say, then why make a law? Can’t business just do it on their own? Won’t they act in their own best interest? And if a business doesn’t want to do it, who the fuck are you or anybody else to tell them what to do? If it’s bad for them then the invisible hand will eventually catch up with them.

    The fact of the matter is that what you guys call non discrimination is in fact special privilege. It becomes a quota system with compliance requirements and penalties for failure to comply with the quotas. You still haven’t made a convincing argument why somebody should receive special privilege purely because they like to take it up the ass.

  39. 49

    Drew4PeaceNow spews:

    Bla bla bla bla bla Ya lets eliminate all of our laws and trust everyone and let everyone out of jail and eliminate all functions of government. Yes lets just trust that landloards, business and every being will live and let live.

  40. 50

    sgmmac spews:

    Donna & Roger,

    I have no issues with your Econ lessons, but the cure for high prices is high prices. I can’t afford it, I don’t buy it, thousands don’t buy it which leads to oversupply which lowers prices. Supply & demand.

    I hate the deficit too. I wasn’t trying to say I like it, I just don’t see a clear way around it with the way things are going in the US with the political parties. When the two parties in Congress decide to work together to fix it, it will get fixed, now they just fight. As long as the fighting continues nothing will get fixed.

    Social Security and Medicare are looming large and no-one has a fix for them either.

  41. 51

    sgmmac spews:


    Those companies with money hidden in off-shore accounts put it there deliberately because the IRS tax code gives them a tax break to do so…………. it’s been around for a number of years too! Bush didn’t start the out-sourcing of America. I hate talking to someone in India about my American Express account or my satelite dish reception…….

  42. 52

    Tom Johnson spews:

    I wonder if one of the reasons all the R white collar political criminals rat on eah other so fast — to avoid prison — is fear of the usual prison love life system?

    The butt fucking traditions in jails and prisons are ancient.

    Remember most of these people start out in church. Remeber all the fear of penetration messages?

    Just a thought – cause they sure rat each other out in a hurry.

  43. 53

    Tom Johnson spews:

    On AOL News Site —

    Delay will give up leadership post.

    This is all moving fast, need to get drunk and party. The Great GOP Collapse is happening as we post.

    Go Hillary.

    Wonder if some of this will reah Cheney? He is a greedy SOB among many other flaws, V-P Resigns — think about that.

  44. 54

    Donnageddon spews:

    sgmmac @ 51

    hose companies with money hidden in off-shore accounts put it there deliberately because the IRS tax code gives them a tax break to do so…………. it’s been around for a number of years too! Bush didn’t start the out-sourcing of America.

    I didn’t say Bush started it, I just find it repulsive, and since you gave me carte blanche to end this disasterous deficits, I ended the practice.

  45. 55

    Richard Pope spews:

    I would like to see HB 1515 adopted with the language that it was originally introduced with, and which it passed the House with.

    When it was in the Senate, there was an unrecorded voice vote on an amendment that made some of the language really bizarre. I have pointed this out before, when we discussed this right after it was defeated.

    Not sure how the bizarre language got in there. Maybe the GOP let this one slip by without protest, so they could justify voting against the bill, since it had some weird language that could have unusual effects.

    The last minute Senate amendments would have prohibited discrimination on the basis of any sort of “gender expression”, or something like that. Not just on the basis of sexual orientation.

    Hopefully, they will go back to the language HB 1515 was introduced with (which has also been used in similar bills in the last several sessions). I would hate to see something adopted with horribly expansive language just because some immature politicians are playing political football.

  46. 56

    Richard Pope spews:

    Here is my question:

    What Republican State Senator is Goldy going to “out” — or at least smear with accusations of homosexuality? And is this going to take place sometime in October, just a couple of weeks before the general election?

  47. 57

    sgmmac spews:

    What the hell is gender expression? Does that mean that someone would have to hire a drag queen?

  48. 58

    sgmmac spews:


    I know you didn’t, but a lot of people thought he did from the campaign and Kerry’s rants about outsourcing. I happen to agree with Kerry on that one point. The only reason that I know he didn’t start is my Dad set me straight when I was ranting about outsourcing. I positively hate talking to someone that I can’t understand when I call a help line. I also have concerns about security in third world companies with all of my personal information there at their disposal.

  49. 59

    Richard Pope spews:

    SgmMac @ 57

    Something like that. Here is some language from Section 4 of HB 1515, as amended at the last minute on the Senate floor (which is quite different from the language in the original bill that passed the House:

    (15) “Sexual orientation” means heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, and gender expression or identity. “Gender expression or identity” means having or being perceived as having a gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior, or expression whether or not that gender identity, self-image, appearance, behavior, or expression is different from that traditionally associated with the sex assigned to that person at birth;

    This would prohibit discrimination based on “gender expression”, which includes one’s “appearance, behavior, or expression”.

    This means that someone couldn’t be discriminated against in employment, housing, public facilities, or public accommodations on the basis of their “gender expression”, as defined above.

    Keep in mind that RCW 49.60.020 required that the Law Against Discrimination “shall be construed liberally”.

    So anyone would be allowed to wear whatever type of clothing that they feel, in their own personal opinion, furthers their “gender expression”.

    So guys could go to high school wearing skirts, for example. And a girl could go to high school wearing a bikini top, if she felt if further her “gender expression”. Or even wearing no top at all.

    They really need to go back to the original language!

  50. 60

    sgmmac spews:

    Most sane Federal Judges would NOT uphold that law. There have been employees in Hotels/Casinos that have fired women for NOT wearing makeup. The businesses claimed it was their image and their employees had to be groomed appropriately. It was upheld in Federal Court. There are companies who are firing employees for smoking at home…….

    I could see a drag queen applying for a job in a Archdiocese!

  51. 61

    Curious George spews:

    Comment by Richard Pope — 1/7/06

    “Here is my question:

    “What Republican State Senator is Goldy going to ‘out’ – or
    at least smear with accusations of homosexuality…”

    When is the bigger question. For the “who” aspect….. Who was Jim West’s room mate? It shouldn’t be that hard for an Olympia insider to figure out.

  52. 62

    Richard Pope spews:

    Curious George @ 60

    I am not an Olympia insider. Certainly an awful lot of people wanted me to be one, but no where near enough.

    So tell me.

  53. 63

    Richard Pope spews:

    Spokane County Commissioner Todd Mielke was a roommate of Jim West’s in Olympia for five years, and didn’t realize West was gay:

    Commissioner Todd Mielke, who worked as a legislative assistant for West for five years, said he was “shocked and surprised” when he read Thursday’s newspaper.

    “It’s a side of him I knew nothing about,” said Mielke, who was a West roommate during legislative sessions in Olympia. “I spent more time with him during a five-year period than probably anybody else.”

    “It has been as much of a surprise to me as any of his other friends,” Mielke said. “I still respect Jim West, and I still consider him a friend.”

  54. 64

    Tom Johnson spews:

    Richard – no one but you cares.

    Outing is not a favorite sport in gay/lesbian circles.

    Jim West is scorned because of his strange – very harmful, completely hypocritcal political moves.

    Who cares who he was doing. Twenty years ago he was good loking. Suspect there were legions, the deep closet frenzy – it is called.

    Only you care Richard. Why?

  55. 65

    Richard Pope spews:

    Like I say, I think Goldy will do the outing in October. He obviously will want this person’s Democrat challenger to win. Calling the GOP incumbent gay could be quite harmful among the GOP base, especially in a tight election.

    If Goldy outed this person now, they might decide not to seek re-election and pursue other opportunities. That would allow the GOP to seek a stronger candidate, perhaps someone with broad appeal, who might be able to keep the seat. Or there could be a primary challeger, who could defeat the incumbent and keep the seat for the GOP.

    Goldy will spread his shit at the last minute, just like he did to David Irons. Granted, Irons would have lost anyway. But in a competitive legislative district, it could make the difference between winning and losing.

  56. 66

    Richard Pope spews:

    David Goldstein, a liberal Seattle-based blogger, disagreed. He wrote on his blog,, that he’d consider outing a specific Republican state senator who opposed the gay rights bill if it would help pass the legislation next session.

    That senator “should think twice before casting another hypocritical vote in opposition,” warned Goldstein’s post, which did not name the senator.

  57. 68

    Ivan spews:

    Hey, Pope, it’s not our fault that Republicans are homophobe fucking bigots. If Goldy, or anybody else, outs a Republican before an election, and gay-hating Republican voters stay home, and that Republican loses, that’s just tough shit for you.

  58. 69

    Drew4PeaceNow spews:

    I think 1515 will pass without employing any gaymail tactics against the Senator in question. Also,I expect he will not be running for reelection anyway and that the seat will go Democratic.

  59. 70

    Goldy spews:

    Richard @65,

    Back in July, when I first touched on the subject of outing a gay legislator (“The ethics of outing“), I believe I made my intentions very clear:

    The state GOP leadership could protect its caucus from the personal and political consequences of a high-profile outing by simply arranging for HB 1515 to pass. Indeed, I would hope that Senate Minority Leader Bill Finkbeiner would show some true leadership, and cast the deciding vote himself… a vote, by the way, that would be consistent with the sentiments of his own district. I understand that such a move might cost him his leadership position, but his fellow Republicans should be made to understand that failure to pass HB 1515 could cost some in their caucus even more.

    You can speculate all you want about what dirty trick I might be planning for the 2006 election. Or perhaps… I already played it?

  60. 71

    Richard Pope spews:


    So do you think that Bill Finkbeiner gave up his leadership position and voted (well, “will vote”, I should say) his conscience to (a) protect a fellow Senator from being “outed”, (b) protect himself from being “outed”, (c) make his re-election more likely, (d) represent what the people in his district wanted, or (e) honestly reflect his conscience and good judgment?

    And if Finkbeiner wasn’t protecting himself from being “outed”, what is going to keep you from “outing” this other person in October 2006, when they are facing a hot re-election battle? Or, perhaps in October 2008, since you might be referring to someone other than who most people think you have been referring to?

  61. 72

    Goldy spews:

    Richard @71,

    Whatever his reasons, Finkbeiner is apparently going to do the right thing, and I expect that should be good enough for me. My guess is that c, d, and e all came into play. I won’t comment on a or b, as I don’t want to get into a game of elimination.

    But I wrote extensively on this subject, and I think I made it clear that my discussion was more of a warning than a personal threat. In the age of the blogosphere, I simply do not believe that a hypocritically voting closeted, gay election official can feel safe that his secret will be kept as such. The information I have came to me unsolicited; I assume others have it as well.

  62. 73

    Richard Pope spews:

    Drew4PeaceNow @ 69

    I could ask you who “I expect he will not be running for reelection anyway and that the seat will go Democratic” is referring to.

    It does limit the GOP Senators who could get “outed” quite a bit — i.e. to MALES who term is up for election in November 2006. Actually, you could be referring to November 2008, but I think November 2006 is more likely.

    GOP State Senators whose terms are up for election in November 2006:

    District 6 — Brad Benson. Appointed in 2004 after Jim West elected Mayor of Spokane. Retained in November 2004 with 50.92%. (Jim West had 51.39% in 2002) Swing district.

    District 7 — Bob Morton. Unopposed in 2002. Very strong GOP district.

    District 8 — Patricia Hale. Unopposed in 2002. Very strong GOP district.

    District 13 — Joyce Mulliken. Unopposed in 2002. Very strong GOP district.

    District 15 — Jim Honeyford. Unopposed in 2002. Very strong GOP district.

    District 26 — Bob Oke. 50.41% in 2002. Swing district.

    District 31 — Pam Roach. 51.68% in 2002. GOP is actually stronger in District 31 than Pam Roach is.

    District 42 — Dale Brandland. 49.24% in 2002, with two minor candidates also. Swing district.

    District 44 — Dave Schmidt. 53.09% in 2002. Swing district.

    District 45 — Bill Finkbeiner. Unopposed in 2002. Swing district however.

    District 47 — Steve Johnson. 55.51% in 2002. Swing district.

    District 48 — Luke Esser. 77.50% in 2002 (against a Libertarian, no Democrat filed). Swing district however.

    So can you at least tell me which of these GOP State Senators you don’t think will be seeking re-election this fall?

  63. 74

    Richard Pope spews:

    Drew4PeaceNow @ 69

    And I assume you aren’t referring to either of the two GOP State Senators that Dean Nielsen expects to retire on his Progressive Majority blog. One of them is seeking higher office — a stupid thing to do if he is a hypocrite that could be exposed, and the other is retiring for what appear to be very legitimate health reasons.

    So you must be referring to another surprise retirement?

  64. 75

    Drew4PeaceNow spews:

    You know Richard I think the whole quest you are on is out of line. People even those who hold elected office are entitled to have privacy if they so choose. I do think that there are exceptions. Jim West who was an active leader against so many who had key things in common with him was an exception. When I think of some of the speaches he made and the tone he used and the hatred it fostered it makes my skin crawl given what we know today. But I will leave it to the gay community to have and excersize better judgment than I have, when it comes to an act like outing someone who has chosen to keep their personal life private. I have said all I intend to on this issue.

  65. 76

    Richard Pope spews:

    Well, Drew — looks like it has been you and Goldy that have started this line of crap. Maybe I need to start a “VIGIL” to force Goldy to put up or shut up.

    DAY 2 OF GOLDY “OUTING” VIGIL — already.

    I figure it is better that Goldy “out” this person now, instead of waiting until October 2006, when they are in a tight race in a swing district.

    Goldy wants to make it easy for the Democrats to take this district, which is why he is going to wait until October.

    I say Goldy should “out” this person now. If this person’s sexual orientation (and presumably actual gender preference in relationships) isn’t such a big deal, then he or she will be strengthened by an early “outing” and be a more formidable candidate to unseat in November.

    On the other hand, if this person is a predatory, hypocritical asshole like Jim West, then they need to be gotten “out” of the closet, “out” of the GOP nomination, and “out” of the Senate. I would prefer this happen NOW, so the GOP can find and field a stronger candidate.

  66. 77

    Richard Pope spews:

    Or perhaps this “outing” threat is a vicious lie, which Goldy and his fellow travelers want to keep threatening, but not actually saying, in order to intimidate a decent GOP State Senator from a close swing district:

    “all about politics and partisanship and trying to get more Democrats in the state legislature…. If it takes a smear campaign that’s not based in truth to do it, there are some who will stoop that low.”

    That about sums up the trash talk that Goldy has been promoting for the last six months or so.