Andrew Villeneuve of NW Progressive Blog has a guest column in today’s Seattle P-I, rebutting yet another Tim Eyman $30 car tab initiative. [“Eyman out to destroy representative democracy.” Andrew wrote his column on behalf of Permanent Defense, but he is also the force behind the ever-useful Pacific NW Portal. Busy guy.
It’s been nearly three years since Eyman has managed to qualify one of his “grassroots” initiatives for the ballot, and I think it’s time to acknowledge that he has officially gone pro. For April, Timmy raised only $5,000 from his core group of contributers, but raked in another $75,000 from Woodinville “investment executive” Michael Dunmire, whose total contributions to I-900 now amount to $315,000 of the $415,000 raised thus far. Within the past year, Dunmire also gave $20,000 to Tim’s personal compensation PAC.
The good news is that Eyman’s grassroots fundraising has nearly dried up, his longtime contributors finally tiring of throwing good money after bad. The bad news is that there are still wealthy people stupid enough to bankroll Eyman’s follies. Last year Eyman spent $700,000 of gambling industry money to qualify I-892 for the ballot, but crapped out at the polls. Eventually, Dunmire will learn the same thing Eyman taught the gambling industry: his initiatives are a bad investment.
My guess is, Washington voters have learned that lesson as well.
Congratulations Andrew! Glad to see you made the Seattle P-I! I’ve been expecting this for a long time…good job!
If Gregoire and the current majority are representative democracy, I ask representative of who?
Representative of the majority who passed I601
Representative of the majority who said no to new gas taxes
Representative of the majority who passed $30 dollar tabs
This is not representative, this is activist. If that is your form of Representation of the majority, I will take all the Tim Eymans we can find!
Bend over for Dunmire, Timmy. You da bitch!
GS @ 2: “If that is your form of Representation of the majority”
It’s actually the majority’s form of representation of the majority.
Hey GS,
I wonder who elected more Democrats into the state Senate last November, clearing the way for Democratic control of both houses? Oh, that’s right…the VOTERS!
So that gives them the right to use the emergency clause 99 times and run all over I601, $30 tabs, etc etc etc. I think not! I do not just speak for myself, I speak for several people I know who voted for these clowns but would not do so again. Enjoy your activist rampage, it will come to an end soon!
I think Timmy’s “investors” deserve the butt-fucking he gives them every time he buys a new SUV with the money they gave him to move their extremist right wing, anti-Washington agenda. Serves em right! I hope he keeps taking them to the cleaners. Takes money away from other GOP, right-wing, I hate America causes!
Representative of the majority who passed I601
Representative of the majority who said no to new gas taxes
Representative of the majority who passed $30 dollar tabs
Passed by uninformed knee-jerkers you mean. Initiatives are used way too often and many cause more problems than they supposedly solve. Even well-meaning initiatives like giving pay raises to teachers and limiting class sizes cause problems when things like funding haven’t been thought out.
Many of Timmy’s ideas sound good to the general public, but the general public doesn’t have the time or desire to do all the research necessary to find out that his ideas are full of crap. That’s why we “hire” representatives.
all
50 or more years ago Dems (actually called progressives in that day…more or less Dems) passed all the ref, initi. stuff in a wave of “democracy” in the US. Not till ya’ll started losing did you begin opposing initiatives.
Ok Eyman is flawed. What about all the elected jokers who ignore our real votes? What about the dishonesty of calling 95 of the bills this session “emergency measures” so as to avoid getting trumped by popular votes
What kind of gov’t do you want? Pure democracy (referendums), representative democ (reps, etc, more like Br. parliamentary) or a democratic republic w/ equal branches, representatives, courts etc. i’ll take the last. But will expect a legal system that supports the written law
The voters were given a box next to “PAY LESS TAX” and the majority said “SURE”.
The voters have no responsibility for the repercussions from such votes. They just love PAYING LESS TAX.
Eyman, meanwhile, made out like a king. What’s amazing is the 1) lack of accountability all these accountability zealots demand of Eyman and 2) the lack of accountability they demand from the effects of the “PAY LESS TAX” votes.
trainwinder
You mean the state constitution says that if some group sponsors an initiative, they now have to worry about running the government? Wrong; the elected officials have to say, wow the peole really wanted project xyz and so we need to hunker down and figure it out.
We all know what’s really going on is concerted effort to pervert the popular will.
I can’t help but laugh when I read the comments of GS and “righton” in this thread. But first, a comment about Tim Eyman.
Not only has he failed to pass an initiative for several years now, but most of his initiatives that did pass were invalidated by the courts, usually for violating the single subject matter rule. This provision is a bit arcane and I can understand overlooking it the first time; but several times? Instead of using his contributors’ money to pay himself, Eyman should have hired a good lawyer. His contributors would have got something for their money if Eyman hadn’t tried to be his own lawyer.
It wasn’t so long ago that we heard the words “republic” and “representative democracy” when the GOP was trying to run roughshod over a Democratic majority in the Senate. The will of the people doesn’t seem to matter to these folks when they’re NOT in the majority. Then, the use “republic” and “representative democracy” to justify minority rule. But when they’re the majority, this stuff goes by the board, it seems. Of course, we liberals know what these folks are all about … getting their way regardless of whether it’s what the majority wants or not!
As for the “will of the people,” GS and “righton,” can either of you tell me what the will of the people was when they passed the two education initiatives (both of which required new spending) by overwhelming majorities but refused to pay taxes to support the spending they voted for? As nearly as I can determine, what it boils down to is the average American loves to get “stuff” provided it’s free. You know … zero down, zero payments for 18 months, zero interest ….
This may be fine as a way to sell pricey SUVs or home entertainment centers to people who can’t afford them, but the people we elect to run our government have to put together a thing called a “budget.” This is no easy task, partly because, under our screwy state tax system, nobody really knows how much revenue the state will have. They can only guess. And the state constitution forbids deficit spending. Just how DO you satisfy voters who demand hundreds of millions of dollars of new spending on smaller classroom sizes and higher teacher pay, but won’t pay a dime of taxes for it? Well, there’s only one thing you CAN do, and the Legislature did it. You defer the implementation of those initiatives until such time as the people are willing to let you raise taxes to pay for them. It seems to me the higher taxes to pay for these initiatives is, in the end, what the people wanted. I don’t hear any great hue and cry over the “sin” taxes that were raised in this session.
Oh, one more thing. Gregoire did keep her promise not to seek a general tax increase. No one is forced to buy cigarets, hard liquor, or beer. Except for the gas tax, which is a different issue altogether, you can avoid the tax increases passed by the Legislature and signed by the Governor simply by not buying products that are bad for you. Most people don’t seem to have your problem with enacting these “sin” taxes for a good cause. Like I said, I don’t hear a hue and cry over it. Just sniveling from a few folks like you two, who would oppose ANY tax even if the Viaduct was literally falling down.
Here, have a Kleenex.
retort to 12
a. Eyman is flawed, but notion of being pissed at our govt is not.
b. Your paragraph on repres democracy, the “the GOP was trying to run roughshod over a Democratic majority in the Senate” doesn’t even make sense. Not sure how a minority takes over the majority when you have rules.
c. Passing a law and not passing its taxing is hypocritical but not same as voting down a stadium and getting jammed later by some emergency clause by the legislature (dems)
If the people REALLY believe Timmy is “righton” then why not elect him to office? Oh that’s right, won’t run. He’d rather be a trouble maker. And if the people REALLY don’t like what’s going on in Olympia, they have another option – one other than government by initiative…they can VOTE and get rid of legislative members they don’t like. THAT’s how it is done ladies and gents. Not piecemeal government by initiatives run by crooks and cooks who have their own personal wealth at stake and NOT the wellfare of our great Washington!
The will of the people doesn’t seem to matter to these folks when they’re NOT in the majority. this stuff goes by the board, it seems. Of course, we liberals know what these folks are all about … getting their way regardless of whether it’s what the majority wants or not!-Comment by Patrick— 5/17/05 @ 7:41 am
Can anyone say THE OBSTRUCTIONISTS (yoohoo Mr Defeated Daschle!) in the US Senate?
Thanks for making our point so very well there, pattycakes.
Just how DO you satisfy voters who demand hundreds of millions of dollars of new spending on smaller classroom sizes and higher teacher pay, but won’t pay a dime of taxes for it?
WE didn’t demand smaller classroom sizes, because we, especially those of us with kids in private schools, know the class size issue is total nonsense. It’s yet another liberal knee jerk feel-good “do something” create-a-crisis “solution”.
I can determine, what it boils down to is the average American loves to get “stuff” provided it’s free.
Right… welfare, healthcare, day care, needles, apartments for drunks, condoms… all the little goodies the liberals want nanny state to pass out on the backs of tax payers.
And you are right about your sin taxes –
I don’t smoke so that’s not an issue.
I barely drink, so that’s not an issue.
I REFUSE to come to Seattle for restaurants, shopping or entertainment, so that’s not an issue.
Any big ticket item I can fit in our F-150, I can buy in Oregon, so that’s not an issue.
Mariners, Sonics – catch ’em on the radio/TV, so that’s not an issue.
Seahawks – ha! ha! ha! ha! – never an issue.
Seattle/local papers – cancelled ’em years ago, so that’s not an issue.
Investment property – not in this state, not EVER, so that’s not an issue.
Have I missed anything?
Like my new liberalism?
Gimme CASH!
Reply to 14, I agree with you on one thing, the stadium sticks in my craw. However, let’s put it in proper perspective. As I recall, the voters defeated a sale tax increase to pay for the stadium. The Legislature did not enact the tax increase the people had rejected. Instead, they adopted a different tax, one that soaks visitors to our fair city by taxing hotel rooms and rental cars.
Many other cities have resorted to the same stratagem of taxing tourists and out-of-towners to pay for their sports palaces. I personally think this is odious. However, I also think that when dozens of other cities are taxing Seattleites visiting their cities to pay for their stadiums, retaliation is in order. If we MUST have a stadium, then I think socking it to the folks from Minneapolis, Atlanta, or other places that have adopted hotel and rental car taxes to pay for their stadiums is the way to do it. Turnabout is fair play, you know. Of course, this isn’t fair to our city’s many Asian visitors (businessmen and tourists), but then again, we’re shipping plenty of jobs and money to Asia, and China is partly responsible for high oil prices, so why not soak them, too?
I do think it is a sad commentary on our city’s values that we spent more money on three sports facilities than we did on all of our school buildings.
Reply to 16, if you want to talk about obstructionists then let’s talk about how the Republicans in the Senate blocked dozens of Clinton’s judicial appointments. By the time Clinton left office, a third of the nation’s federal judgeships were vacant. Then these hypocritical bastards turned around and cried foul when Democrats objected to half a dozen out-and-out extremists whose views of the Constitution can only be described as weird. If you’re a Republican, you’re in no position to complain about obstructionism to ANYONE!
More reply to 16
Well goody for you that you can send your kids to PRIVATE school. This country wasn’t built by private schools. Most of its engineers, managers, pharmacists, accountants, doctors, and the other occupations vital to our economy are educated in PUBLIC schools. Fuck you, you elitist bastard!
Get just one fact straight pattycakes… Waggin-his-Willy’s nominees were DEFEATED not denied and up or down vote.
Like my new liberalism?
Gimme CASH!
Fuck you, you elitist bastard! -Comment by Patrick— 5/17/05 @ 8:58 am
Well gee, now there’s and original liberal line. What a really great way to show some deeply intellectual thought, and so very unusual it just really makes a point. Congratulations on your cleverness.
Reply to 21
You’re a selfish jerk who wants to take from society and give nothing back. We have nothing in common, and there’s nothing to discuss. The Legislature should enact an equitable tax system. Taxes have to be enough to serve the common good. I’m not much interested in anything further you have to say at this point. If you refuse to pay your fair share, you should decorate a jail cell.
I pay my fair share and probably a pretty damned large share for YOU, kiddo… I have no choice thanks to Chrissy and her merry band of cash grabbers.
What you fail to recognize is there are lots of us out here with DISPOSABLE INCOME and kiddo, we are withholding it from Washington State.
My vacation dollars will be elsewhere.
Weekends away…Oregon coast and Canada are handy.
Friends and family want to visit with is… we can all go to Banff.
I doubt you, Chrissy and her merry band of cash grabbers can run this state without our disposable income and babycakes, you can’t FORCE us to spend it here.
Does the senate republicans really represent the majority?
I think not….that’s why the senate is a check and balance.
In the comments, some have asked whether or not this applies to the population of states represented by Democratic and Republican Senators as well. It does. The 45 Democratic Senators represent 296,673,557 people, while the 55 Republican Senators represent 289,532,423 people, according to the July 1st, 2004 population estimates by the census bureau. Another way of looking at it is that 174,919,609 people are represented by at least one Democratic Senator, and 171,349,042 people are represented by at least one Republican Senator. So, pretty much anyway you look at it, Biden is right. Democrats in the Senate represent the majority.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/4/27/151925/081
Dan, you’re an idiot.
Scroll down on your cute little link and read a few of the comments and links provided there. This one is really good: “Go to http://clerk.house.gov/members...../Table.htm
The result is there, though you may find it less to your liking. In 2004 the total was
Rep 55,713,412 (51.4%)
Dem 52,590,729 (48.6%)”
Twirly, twirly, spin, spin, kiddo
And PLEASE, if you really want to impress us.. work on your grammar skills.
What is worng with this sentence:
Does the senate republicans really represent the majority?
How’s this for grammer.
fuck you dumbshit. The stat you linked to, had to do with the presidential(diebold)vote, I was taliking about the number of people in the states represented by Democratic Senators.
The purpose of the Senate was to make wild change- due to the fickle will of the American people- difficult to enact. This is one of the many reasons the fillibuster is such an important legislative tool.
So please, you greedy piece of shit. Your boycott threats of spending your money out of state, just prove the point. That you could give a shit if this place turned into West Virginia, as long as you get you $300.00 rebate. Thanks for your new tax plan the other day, I am sure you had all the budgetary numbers to make sure those percentages you quoted will work. When someone pulls your finger and something comes out your ass, that is not a thought, it is just gas.
So please help the economy here with your 1.78% excise tax sale on your house and move the fuck along.
Texas called and one of their rednecks was missing, we said he showed up here.
How’s this for grammer.
fuck you dumbshit.
So please, you greedy piece of shit.
move the fuck along.
Comment by Danw— 5/17/05 @ 9:50 am
Well gee, now there’s a new and original liberal line. What a really great way to show some deeply intellectual thought, and so very unusual it just really makes a point. Congratulations on your cleverness.
That you could give a shit if this place turned into West Virginia,
4 little words there kiddo: DEMOCRAT SENATOR KKK BYRD
Reply to 23, don’t let the door hit your ass on your way to Oregon.
No intention of moving to Oregon, kiddo – lived there and didn’t like it.
EVERY intention of giving them, NETstores, ebay and many other places my DISPOSABLE INCOME.
And thanks, we’re having dinner, spending tomorrow night and flying out of Portland on Thursday.
I wonder why that is?
I am sorry dear sensitive right wing asshole;
You post nothing but spin, then can’t take the heat? To my point of Democratic Senators actually representing more people in the country, you got nothing. but that doesn’t stop you from spewing out more crap. (again when Oreily pulls your finger, it is only gas)
As for Byrd and West Virginia, maybe take a look at Bush and The Coal companies to see why the place is turning into the next Texas.
But I would prefer you go back to Ebay, and buy more armbands.
LIB, I’ve gotta say, you’re so irritating in style and prose, you just can’t be doing it on purpose… No fakery is that sustained and consistant.
So let us all know, are you just a really really skilled troll, or do you really have the social skills (and computing power) of really rough grade sandpaper?
As for Byrd and West Virginia, maybe take a look at Bush and The Coal companies to see why the place is turning into the next Texas. -Comment by Danw— 5/17/05 @ 10:08 am
I see you haven’t managed to learn history either…
How long has coal mining been going on in WV?
Gosh you know, I don’t think GW was alive in 1742.
How long has KKK Byrd been Senator friom WV?
1958- present.
How long has KKK Byrd been Senator friom WV?
Sorry, the correct answer to that question is…TOO LONG.
Eva B @ 25 writes:
What is worng with this sentence:
Does the senate republicans really represent the majority?
Here is some grammar for you, Toots:
you be one fucked up bitch.
Here is some grammar for you, Toots:
you be one fucked up bitch. Comment by dj— 5/17/05 @ 10:17 am
Well gee, now there’s a new and original liberal line. What a really great way to show some deeply intellectual thought, and so very unusual it just really makes a point. Congratulations on your cleverness.
Swearing is the refuge of the small minded, it is a way to compensate for lack of vocabulary and verbal skill. It tends to limit success in the adult business world and is very often a sign of impotent frustration. Tell me, have you passed on your extensive verbal skills to your kids?
Here is some grammar for you, Toots:
you be one fucked up bitch. Comment by dj— 5/17/05 @ 10:17 am
Wow! Ebonics and swearing – you’ll go far with those impressive skills!
Eva B @ 36, 37
“Swearing is the refuge of the small minded, it is a way to compensate for lack of vocabulary and verbal skill.”
Or. . . it can be used to supplement a vocabulary. It seems particularly helpful to annoy you. If you don’t like it then fuck off and find somewhere else to play!
Back on topic: Timmy fucked over his grassroots base through an accounting scam where his PAC paid his own for-profit corporation after implying he wasn’t profiting from donations to his PAC. I wonder if we will see a class action suit be brought against him. . . .
Very impressive communication skills dj – teaching your children are you…?
“Dude, Ya be wantin’ some fries wit your fuckin’ order?”
Eva B. @ 39
“. . .teaching your children are you…?”
Teaching???? Where do you think I learn this stuff from? :-)
Dan and the Senate, and Dems
You know, the beauty of our country is the way founding fathers designed a House that was based on population, and a senate that protects the unpopulated and/or smaller states.
How’d you like to be in Wyoming hoping for a highway when you have fewer people than Brooklyn or somewhere. They get one Congress person, but yeah 2 senators.
You guys wanna go all Parliament, no courts, no people initiatives….mimic our northern bros?
Teaching???? Where do you think I learn this stuff from?
-Comment by dj— 5/17/05 @ 12:43 pm
Ok you got me – I did laugh at that one! :-)
RWB@8,
Initiatives are used way too often? Do you mean like the way to often emergencies that Democrats declare when they want to steal more of the people’s money? I remember the “emergency” that Democrat Gov Lowry declared to create Safeco field.
Prediction: If it gets on teh ballot this year, the repeal of the liberal money grab (aka gas tax) will be passed.
It doesn’t take much to stir up the wingnuts, does it?
no it doesn’t patrick, their brains are ‘stirfried’ after listening to their extremist radio elites
We don’t listen to the ABC, NBC, CBS and PBS elites.
right righton, you must get your news delivered in the super markets, nationa equirer, star, etc.
Prediction: If it gets on teh ballot this year, the repeal of the liberal money grab (aka gas tax) will be passed.
Is anybody else as amazed as I am that we’ve reached a point where $ for building roads is a “liberal money grab?”
Man this is funny. Patrick, you must support Queen Hilary, who wants to trash the US Constitution, which was created because large population areas would overpollute the smaller rural areas. Just think if the red states decided to only feed their red state population. You would be crying bloody murder. Just think if the red states decided to close their borders to blue states trucking. You would cry bloody murder. The population argument is specious. If you look at the county by county vote and get a real view on the population by counties I wonder if the value would shift the other way, like the shock you all got when GWB received >59 MM votes. Golly that threshold was never seen by your great WJC. In fact he barely got 50% of the vote in 1996. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781450.html
Pudster
LOL at you Puddybud. In fact he barely got 50% of the vote in 1996.
And Bush’s whopping 51% is a total mandate?
Bush won by approximately 3 million votes, Clinton won in ’96 by over 8 million votes.
Please tell me Puddybud, what’s your point>
Who ran against Clinton in 96, Dole. Nuff SAID!!!
The point is how can you look at who voted for whom, when the vast majority of people usually don’t vote. I want a county breakdown, not a state breakdown.
Pudster
well then get your butt to work and google yourself until you have blisters on your fingers.
Reply to #12 Your paragraph on representative democracy, “the GOP was trying to run roughshod over a Democratic majority in the Senate” doesn’t even make sense. Not sure how a minority takes over the majority when you have rules
Some explanation – Initiative 601 in Washington state was pushed by conservatives, e.g. Linda Smith, ex legislator and ex Congresswoman in an attempt to void the Washington State Constitution by taking away the right of the majority of Legislators to approve the budget. The state constitution says that legislators shall make their decisions by majority vote. Yet I-601 said that a 2/3 vote of legislators was requried for any tax increase. Therefore a minority of legislators controlled the state budget under I-601.
Legislators this year suspended for two years the 1/3 minority overrule of the majority to pass the budget and Republicans are crying “foul”
This is not the first time that the supermajority vote has been temporarily suspended.
What’s interesting here is that the Republicans are trying to eliminate the filibuster in Congress twhich requires 6 less votes to suspend out of 100 and they are acting indignant that a minority has rights. It’s politics of convenience – you can’t have it both ways. Judges, taxes, what else?
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Maybe a lot less foul language and some serious discussion would be betterin these blogs. Maybe stop hiding like cowards behind phony signin names. Afraid to put your real name down on what you write? Sure seems like it with how quickly people are prone to write foul garbage instead of engage in a real dialogue. I think any profane venting by anonymous people is just that. Anonymous words not really to be taken as serious since the person does not have the courage to identify themselves with a real name.
Eyman initiatives a ba…