Exit Strategy

The only drama in last night’s State of the Union address, was what happened minutes before it started: anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan — the mother of US soldier slain in Iraq — was summarily arrested, manhandled and jailed for the crime against the state of… wearing a t-shirt emblazoned “2245 Dead. How many more?”

In a diary on Daily Kos, Sheehan gives a first hand account of her arrest, and the circumstances that led up to it. She had no plans to go to the SOTU last night, but reluctantly attended after being given a ticket by Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey at a press conference earlier in the day.

I was having second thoughts about going to the SOTU at the Capitol. I didn’t feel comfortable going. I knew George Bush would say things that would hurt me and anger me and I knew that I couldn’t disrupt the address because Lynn had given me the ticket and I didn’t want to be disruptive out of respect for her. I, in fact, had given the ticket to John Bruhns who is in Iraq Veterans Against the War. However, Lynn’s office had already called the media and everyone knew I was going to be there so I sucked it up and went.

I got the ticket back from John, and I met one of Congresswoman Barbara Lee’s staffers in the Longworth Congressional Office building and we went to the Capitol via the undergroud tunnel. I went through security once, then had to use the rest room and went through security again.

My ticket was in the 5th gallery, front row, fourth seat in. The person who in a few minutes was to arrest me, helped me to my seat.

I had just sat down and I was warm from climbing 3 flights of stairs back up from the bathroom so I unzipped my jacket. I turned to the right to take my left arm out, when the same officer saw my shirt and yelled; “Protester.” He then ran over to me, hauled me out of my seat and roughly (with my hands behind my back) shoved me up the stairs. I said something like “I’m going, do you have to be so rough?”

The officer ran with me to the elevators yelling at everyone to move out of the way. When we got to the elevators, he cuffed me and took me outside to await a squad car. […] I was never told that I couldn’t wear that shirt into the Congress. I was never asked to take it off or zip my jacket back up. If I had been asked to do any of those things…I would have, and written about the suppression of my freedom of speech later. I was immediately, and roughly (I have the bruises and muscle spasms to prove it) hauled off and arrested for “unlawful conduct.”

After I had my personal items inventoried and my fingers printed, a nice Sgt. came in and looked at my shirt and said, “2245, huh? I just got back from there.”

I told him that my son died there. That’s when the enormity of my loss hit me. I have lost my son. I have lost my First Amendment rights. I have lost the country that I love. Where did America go? I started crying in pain.

What did Casey die for? What did the 2244 other brave young Americans die for? What are tens of thousands of them over there in harm’s way for still? For this? I can’t even wear a shirt that has the number of troops on it that George Bush and his arrogant and ignorant policies are responsible for killing.

When I titled this post “Exit Strategy” I wasn’t referring to the war in Iraq to which Sheehan’s son Casey gave his life, and to which Sheehan herself must now apparently give up her freedom in order to peacefully protest. I was referring to the war on dissent that is now being fought in this country on multiple fronts, both by the jackbooted ground troops of President Bush’s lying, spying proto-police state, and by his party’s right-wing, extremist base, whose escalating eliminationist rhetoric promises to physically intimidate the political opposition into submission.

The “Exit Strategy” I am referring to is the strategy that all those who openly criticize this government must now consider should our nation continue its slide towards fascism. One should at least start to imagine the possibility that there could someday be very real consequences, legal or otherwise, for those or us who continue to speak out; it would not be the first time in our nation’s history that dissidents faced a choice between martyrdom or expatriation, or worse… shutting up.

Right now, despite our vaunted Bill of Rights, we can be spied on without warrant, arrested without cause, and imprisoned indefinitely without trial. We have a president who claims extra-constitutional wartime powers in the name of a “war on terror” that has no conceivable end, and a Congress that has all but ceded its role as a co-equal branch of government. And we have a political climate in which prominent media figures can publicly call for the assassination of Supreme Court Justices, without fear of legal consequences or public rebuke… as long as they target the right justices… or more specifically, those perceived to be on the left.

This is the current state of affairs, but what should happen should our economy implode under its own arrogance, or the rule of law collapse in an avalanche of fear after another major terrorist attack? Will our government protect dissenters from the pent up anger of political vigilantes? Will our voices be silenced, or punished as seditious under some wartime power inferred by a unitary executive? Will we be blacklisted? Imprisoned? Interred?

Dismiss this as a paranoid fantasy, but it’s happened before, and there’s certainly nothing more noble or high-minded about this president than there was about Adams, Lincoln, Wilson, or Roosevelt. When even in these relatively peaceful times, the mother of a fallen soldier can be arrested and manhandled in the capitol building itself, for doing nothing more than wearing a t-shirt — with little or no outrage expressed by the MSM — what chance would dissidents have during a true national crisis?

Just makes me wonder if it’s time to start considering an exit strategy.

Comments

  1. 1

    EXPERT from BOEING spews:

    FROM THE SEATTLE TIMES – TODAY – RIGHT ON, THREE CHEERS ( Written by a Blethen, the Family which owns same)

    The generational disconnect on homosexual rights

    Leaders of the fight against civil rights need to give up their crusade. Their notions of sin and sexuality belong in another era, to decades past when women could not vote, black people drank from designated fountains and gays and lesbians were beaten into false lives.

    This generational disconnect was on full display the past couple of weeks as gray-haired legislators and salt-and-pepper-bearded pastors tried to deny a law that granted gays and lesbians the rights heterosexuals and minorities have long enjoyed.

    It was significant that the civil-rights law passed largely because of a Gen-X Republican’s vote. Sen. Bill Finkbeiner, R-Kirkland, was quoted from the Senate floor in The Seattle Times as saying, “We don’t choose who we love. The heart chooses who we love. I don’t believe it’s right for us to say … it’s acceptable to discriminate against people because of that. I cannot stand with that argument.”

    The future of civil rights lies with Finkbeiner and other Gen-X and -Y politicians not yet elected. It will be important for this cohort to be active between now and November. That is when a misguided Tim Eyman referendum or initiative to undo what was done in Olympia could be on the ballot. No doubt the Eyman campaign will be loudly backed by the familiar faces of opposition, who will trot out the same tired reasons, too numerous and faulty to list here, to gain signatures.

    One of the reasons used to try to tank any civil rights aimed at gays and lesbians is the claim that those rights will lead to same-sex marriage. On this point, the opposition is correct. Thank goodness. (Before moving on, let’s drop the labels. The weddings I attend this summer will not be called “heterosexual” weddings and the people involved will not be in “hetero-marriages.” So let’s not label marriage as gay. Call it what it is: marriage).

    Now that gays and lesbians have legal safeguards that grant them the same rights as the rest of us, it only makes sense that our state give all its adult citizens the right to marry. To not address this inequity would be wrong and perpetuate dated discrimination. Adding momentum to the debate is an expected ruling by the state Supreme Court on marriage.

    What the defenders of virtue do not understand is the role marriage has played in the lives of younger generations. The “sanctity of marriage” has become a meaningless slogan when used to perpetuate morals in an age of divorce. We either grew up in a divorced family or had numerous friends whose parents’ marriage habits were like those of dating, middle-school kids. Gays and lesbians certainly could do no worse.

    Is the institution of marriage really going to suffer if gays and lesbians are allowed to make the decision to marry? Not a chance. Religious institutions, including the Roman Catholic Church, would not have to condone state-sanctioned marriage.

    Not much has changed in heavily Catholic Massachusetts, where marriage was made legal for all by that state’s Supreme Court in 2003. According to the National Vital Statistics Reports put out by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, between the months of January and May in Massachusetts there were 6,753 divorces in 2003, 5,984 in 2004 and 5,137 in 2005. Marriages increased by about 1,000 during the same three years.

    So what exactly is the threat? Seems to me the real threat to family is teaching intolerance. We are in an era of unrivaled global interaction that begs for understanding. If American children are taught that their friends and neighbors are a threat to the fiber of family, they cannot be expected to make the leap of comprehension needed to be a world citizen.

    The disconnect is not excusable. What the gray-beards must realize is that my generation sees co-workers and friends in same-sex relationships. We watch sitcoms and movies with gay characters. We read novels where lesbians grace the pages. I was shocked by my first compact disc, not my first gay bar.

    The elders need only to flip the issue and consider the future, a future of equality beyond them, but in the grasp of their children.

    Ryan Blethen’s column appears regularly on editorial pages of The Times. His e-mail address is rblethen@seattletimes.com

  2. 2

    Mark spews:

    Dr. E @ 128 & 129

    I don’t doubt what you say is true. However, I have to wonder about the social circles you were in since “recriminations for dissent” would be putting things VERY, VERY mildly. The Cheka wasn’t exactly a nice bunch of fellows.

    I did not have an opportunity to visit Europe in the mid to late 80’s, but my brother did. In fact, when the Berlin Wall came down, his “artwork” on the wall could be seen on the front page of every newspaper worldwide. I’ve had family members sent to Siberia and got to know people who worked for many years to put in place the “infrastructure” that eventually pushed the Communists out.

    I’m surprised by your colleagues, but there were some who emigrated despite being pro-Soviet. For example, are they truly ethnic Lithuanians & Hungarians? And, again, I’d wonder about the particular people you’re around. You do know that the intelligentsia of the time (who I presume are your colleagues) had to be pro-Soviet to even get anywhere in society. The ethnic populace in the formerly occupied territories have always been very pro-America, pro-West and couldn’t wait to join NATO.

    I find it interesting that you don’t address the difference between the way the Republicans and Democrats have historically treated the occupied Soviet territories.

  3. 3

    TheDeadlyShoe spews:

    dr e.

    a.) there was a huge propane tank in building 7
    b.) the people who say that the buildings should have stayed up rely on data that ignores little things like ‘all the fireproofing being blasted off by the impact’.

    that the same people say that it was a missile that hit the pentagon condemns their arguments well enough.

  4. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    18

    “Exit stratagy my ass. Lets say … you’ve divined the master plan. What does that mean ethically, pick up and run? Just give it away? Not on your life, not for one second. Ill stand here doing what I swore to do, defend the Constitution forever.”

    If high noon comes, you won’t be in the street alone, Bill. The rabbit will be right beside you!!! (western music playing in background)

    “If some thugs are going to drag me off to a concentration camp, so be it, Ill be screaming all the way there.”

    WTF?!! You’re gonna let these fascist thugs haul you off to a fucking camp????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not me!!! I’m gonna go fer my gun!!! They may get me, but not before daylight is shining through their gizzards!!!! Get a spine, Bill. Remember what Patrick Henry said.

    ” … make sure you figure out where the heart of the resistance will be.”

    In the heart of the Bunny!!! In the heart of the Bunny!!! Stand next to me, and you’ll never go to a concentration camp — NEVER — I promise!!! They’re gonna be slinging so much lead in my direction, they’ll clean up everything within 500 feet of me!!! The Bunny will be a red streak and a few tufts of fur, and so will you. But we’ll be lookin’ at daylight through some of ‘em before we go down!!!

    “From my point of view, I rather stand and fight for my country than run. Comment by bill— 2/1/06 @ 5:34 pm”

    If high noon comes, Bill, you won’t be in the street alone …

    (hopping noises; jangling spurs; more western music)

  5. 5

    momus spews:

    What a load of crap,

    This attention whore should have been man handled (she should have been beaten).

    She has disgraced her sons death… She is a pig!

  6. 6

    Libertarian spews:

    We may be in Iraq with the best of intentions, but it won’t matter in the long run. We cannot change the ingrained Islamic tradition, and this tradition does not support democracy. That’s just the way it is in the Middle East.

  7. 7

    JCH spews:

    Think about what that means – all you fucking bigots who spew here.

    Comment by BOB from BOEING — 2/2/06 @ 5:54 am [Bob, If this means that Holland and Denmark will pay for all the AIDS medical care for America’s gays, I say we send the fags over to the Lowlands with one way tickets. Then these young queer Democrats can “Tookie Williams” each other, get HIV/AIDS, and I don’t have to pay for their self inflicted diseases.]

  8. 8

    The Wail of Violins spews:

    Hey Goldy, you’ve got a really active imagination. This reads like Paris Hilton talking about the troubles with her current boyfriend. Boooo Hoooo.

    Sheehan should know that you can’t use any signs or other forms of protest within the Capitol Building. And, ignorance of the law is not an excuse for one’s actions. I know it sucks for you that a larger percentage of the folks in this country are behind the war, behind surveillance as needed to find out more about those who wish us active harm, etc. But this whining violins diatribe appeals to noone beyond those of you on the far left that banter back and forth on left leaning blogs.

    You are not engaging the American public in meaningful dialog. Instead, your statements are viewed as over the top, and your heroes are viewed as fringe wackos. If you have not noticed, your beloved Mother Sheehan is a joke to most Americans. Get a clue.

  9. 9

    Sven spews:

    You wear that shirt to a state of the union address? Particularly with your history of loud protests?

    No offense but what was she thinking? I don’t think it was a setup for media attention, but at the same time I can see why some people do. She has a history of it.

  10. 10

    GBS spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 111 wrote:

    Uh, Goldy … a GOP congressman’s wife was also hauled away for wearing a t-shirt … hers said “support the troops.” As long as they enforce the policy equally, which they did, it’s not a partisan issue.

    Sorry Roger, but it wasn’t enforced equally. The congressman’s wife was “asked” to leave. Cindy Sheehan was handcuffed, forg marched, arrested, and taken to a booking facility.

  11. 11

    windie spews:

    my big question… when he really really feels it slipping next november, will Bush just declare this silly ‘democracy’ thing over?

    “Due to terrorist threats, we have to call off the election indefinitely”

  12. 12

    Dr. E spews:

    On top of that, I have a number of colleagues from Lithuania, Hungary, and elsewhere, some of whom defected, and others of whom emigrated, and I haven’t got a pro-Reagan peep out of them yet. We don’t talk politics all day long, but I’ll prod them to see what I can get.

  13. 13

    Libertarian spews:

    The tee-shirt deal was legit. You can’t go hang out in the peanut gallery at Congress with any tee-shirts, etc. with messages on ‘em. There was a guy with an anti-Clinton tee-shirt at the ’98 impeachment gig, and the he was tossed out. Same deal for Cindy.

  14. 14

    rwb spews:

    the manhandling of Cindy Sheehan is a national embarassment and just another in the long list of Bush administration fuck ups. Just when you thought they couldn’t do anything stupider, they go and surpass all expectations.
    Shame on any of you who voted for this pathetic moron and the right-wing control machine.

  15. 15

    Cougar spews:

    My question is when will the Monkey King declare war on Iran? August ’06, August ’08 or both? The only way his pathetic numbers go up is through fear, terror, enemy and threat (keep repeating all four words for 27 days and then you can be a good little NeoCon sympathizer)

  16. 16

    Poster Child spews:

    Yankees Suck

    and for all you non-Seattlites who don’t understand the reference, what are you doing hanging out here anyway?

    The Capitol Building is a dissent-free zone. Obviously.

  17. 17

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Hey Goldy – You should invite your hero Sheehan to Drankin’ Librully. She could propel you onto the national stage. Git her good and dronk and maybe she could get arrested again for DUI.

    Cracks me up that a kook like her is a hero to you moonbats. This is why Dems will NEVER be allowed to be in control of the reins of power. NEVER…

  18. 20

    JDB spews:

    Belltowner: Yeah, but Mark the Yellowback has no respect for our soldiers or their families.

    Windie @ 1:

    Well, the Constitution is a two hundred year old document, and this is a post 911 world, so it is obviously not relevant to the President any more.

  19. 22

    Mark spews:

    Apparently, Cindy, Goldy and the rest missed the fact that the wife of a Republican Congressman was also removed for wearing a PRO-Bush T-shirt.

    This was NOT the selective stifling of political speech.

  20. 27

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Are you Cindy worshipers the least bit embarassed by the fact that she hangs out with Murka hating thugs like Hugo Chavez? Or is that “noble”?

  21. 28

    JCH spews:

    OK, How about Sheala Jackson Lee [D- “Move the Mars rover over to where the astronauts planted the American flag”] and Barbara Lee [D-People’s Welfare Hillary Village of San Francisco] for the Democrat 2008 ticket? You can be sure these women would capture 115% of the registered black vote!

  22. 29

    bill spews:

    Exit stratagy my ass. Lets say you are right, and I truly think that if this president and his staff thought they could make that bird fly they would try in a heartbeat, but let say you’ve divined the master plan. What does that mean ethically, pick up and run? Just give it away? Not on your life, not for one second. Ill stand here doing what I swore to do, defend the Constitution forever. If some thugs are going to drag me off to a concentration camp, so be it, Ill be screaming all the way there.

    And if you are saying something you believe rather than a bunch of emotive rhetoric, do you really think there is anywhere to go? Im sure your ancestors who fled germany to the US in the 20s felt the same way. Smart move. So did the ones who fled initially to Poland, Austria, and Hungary. So make your predictions well, if you are right, youd better make sure you figure out where the heart of the resistance will be.

    From my point of view, I rather stand and fight for my country than run.

  23. 30

    JCH spews:

    From my point of view, I rather stand and fight for my country than run.

    Comment by bill — 2/1/06 @ 5:34 pm [Er, Bill, OK, I ask. Have you EVER “stood for your country”, ie., worn the uniform? Not many commie lib Democrats seem to believe that THEY should ever serve.]

  24. 31

    GBS spews:

    How about ol’ monkey face claiming “America is addicted to oil.” No shit Sherlock.

    Progressives have seen this one coming for decades. But the neo-con zombie crowd just followed Limbaugh’s cue and continued to drive SUV’s and thumbed their collective noses at the world. Or so they thought. Now their King is blaming them for the over consumption and dependence of oil in the US.

    How much do you want to bet that the Fox News crowd will start touting the “alternative fuels research” as a conservative idea? Because those Democrats just don’t have any ideas.

    Losers.

    Hey, MTR rake face, please, please, please, tell us again how McDermott violated the 4th Amendment. Oh, yeah and how you spent $500,000 on child support. Baaa haaa haaaa haaaa.

    That makes me laugh my ass off every single time.

    Moron.

  25. 34

    Anonymous spews:

    One day Monkey boy will be gone. One day we will have our Democracy back. We may have to take up arms to get it back, but we WILL get it back. And if that day comes, we will know who our enemies are…. Jack booted thugs of the Reprehensible Party.

  26. 35

    TheDeadlyShoe spews:

    JCH knows as well as we do that veterans swell the ranks of the Democratic party while being conspicuously absent in the GOP.

  27. 36

    TheDeadlyShoe spews:

    i can’t be the only one tired of JCH saying the same damn things in every goddamn thread

  28. 37

    JCH spews:

    20. How about ol’ monkey face claiming “America is addicted to oil.” No shit Sherlock. [GBS], OK, GBS, How about more nukes, more refineries, drilling in ANWR, drilling in the Gulf, and taking Iraq oil to pay for the war amd to balance our budget. You libs hate all these ideas, and any idea that produces more domestic energy, then blame Bush for high gasoline costs. Classic!!

  29. 38

    JCH spews:

    25, Deadly Shoe, What a insightful post!! Very deep thinking!! [Do you hand out with Barabra Lee and Cindy McKenney?? [hehe]]

  30. 40

    JCH spews:

    Ok, Let’s discuss the combined military service of Goldy, Joel Stein, and Deadly Shoe. [silence] ………OK, we are done. [hehe]

  31. 41

    Mark The Redneck spews:

    Rakeface – Glad to see you’re back. Hey, can you call me “chilling” and “morally repugnant”. Fucking moron…

    And just for old time’s sake:

    …it’s just that the reality is vaginas make us men .
    Comment by GBS— 12/29/05 @ 5:44 pm

    …vaginas do indeed make us men.
    Comment by Donnageddon— 12/29/05 @ 5:55 pm

  32. 42

    fire_one spews:

    JCH – as a vet with 24 years of service and two combat tours, I say it is a wonder you weren’t killed by your own troops…. Oh, that’s righ

  33. 44

    Pierre Franklin spews:

    It’s about the marshmallows in the hot chocolate. No matter how spicy the sauce, the pizza remains elusive. Long live free strawberries (not Darryl)!.

  34. 45

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @29: Ok, Let’s discuss the combined military service of Goldy, Joel Stein, and Deadly Shoe. [silence] ………OK, we are done. [hehe]

    Comment by JCH— 2/1/06 @ 6:17 pm

    Naw. Rhetorical answers to rhetorical questions are rather pointless. Let’s hear about yours, JCH.

  35. 46

    Ken In Seattle spews:

    How much ya wanna bet that there would be no apology if they had not ejected a REpubs wife at the same time.

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The U.S. Capitol Police dropped charges against activist Cindy Sheehan on Wednesday and apologized for arresting her in the House of Representatives chamber shortly before President Bush’s State of the Union address.

    Sheehan, who became a central figure in the U.S. anti-war movement after her son Casey was killed in the Iraq war, was taken from the Capitol in handcuffs and charged with unlawful conduct after refusing to cover an anti-war slogan on her T-shirt.

    The Capitol Police said in a statement that it had reviewed the incident and determined the arrest was unwarranted.

    “While officers acted in a manner consistent with the rules of decorum enforced by the department in the House Gallery for years, neither Mrs. Sheehan’s manner of dress or initial conduct warranted law enforcement intervention,” the statement said.

    Capitol Police Chief Terrance Gainer also apologized to the wife of a House Republican who was told to leave the chamber during Bush’s speech for wearing a shirt bearing words of support for U.S. troops.

  36. 47

    RUFUS spews:

    How about ol’ monkey face claiming “America is addicted to oil.” No shit Sherlock.

    Comment by GBS— 2/1/06 @ 5:47 pm

    Yeah, and it is mostly you and your ilks fault you fucking dimwit. Damn these libs are dumbasses.

  37. 48

    Janet S spews:

    Just because Sheehan is trading on the soul of her son doesn’t make her noble. She is a publicity whore and knew exactly what she was doing. She was asked to put on her coat and stop making a scene. She refused. She got the treatment, and the media coverage, she wanted. She would have gotten nothing if she had just sat quietly, like she is lying about wanting to do.

    As for the rest of this, it sounds like the ranting of the desperate. As I recall, it was the left wing of the supreme court that decided to give away your constitutional property rights. It was a dem govt that tapped the phones of MLK. It was a dem admin that sequestered FBI files for two years. Rights abuses are not limited.

    BTW, except for those citizens directly tied to terrorists, who else has been illegally tapped or arrested without charges? If some fanatic goes to Afghanistan and signs up with an movement that wants to destroy western civilization, do we charge him and release him, hoping he returns?

  38. 49

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    “It was a dem govt that tapped the phones of MLK. It was a dem admin that sequestered FBI files for two years. Rights abuses are not limited.”

    Sadly, all too true, Janet S. But you might want to actually visit the history of the period and see who was outraged by this. Was it the republican party? Why, no it was not. And today. Where are you on this issue, Janet S., paragon of randian virtue? Silent? What a fucking suprise.

  39. 51

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    “BTW, except for those citizens directly tied to terrorists, who else has been illegally tapped or arrested without charges?”

    Well, uh, Janet S., since the administration has admitted they have done so, why don’t they tell us? Oh, sorry, you’re just asking more garbage rhetorical questions.

  40. 52

    JCH spews:

    34, Pround To Be A Dumb ASS, OK…………..LT, USN, 76-84, WESTPACs [3], Indian Ocean 79-80, “Gator Navy” [Nothing special. I served with men far better than I.]

  41. 53

    JCH spews:

    Proud To Be An Asshole, Did you have the same outrage when Hillary ended up with 1000 raw “Republican Enemy” FBI files? [hehe]

  42. 55

    spews:

    Bwaaakkk…Cindy Sheehan… Cindy Sheehan…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…Cindy Sheehan… Cindy Sheehan…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!! Bwaaakkk…Cindy Sheehan… Cindy Sheehan…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…George Soros…George Soros…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…George Soros…George Soros…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…George Soros…George Soros…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…Moveon.org…Moveon.org…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…Moveon.org…Moveon.org…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…Moveon.org…Moveon.org…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…ACLU…ACLU…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…ACLU…ACLU…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaakkk…ACLU…ACLU…Bwaaaaakkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!
    Bwaaaaaaaaaakkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  43. 56

    JCH spews:

    31, 32 [FireOne] See post 41. Hope that answered you question. BTW, Did you vote for Bill “Draft Dodger” Clinton over Bob “Anzio” Dole? Just asking!

  44. 57

    JCH spews:

    Proud Ass, Why are you so upset that the NSA is protecting America by listening in on Arab terrorists calling home? Perhaps if the 9/11 boys took down the DNC Building or the New York Times Building you might have a different opinions.

  45. 58

    Drivel spews:

    Janet CarnS @ 37 If you ever took the time to read the full articles you would find that she did not take her jacket off, only unbottoned it. She did not refuse but was forcefully pulled out of her chair and dragged up the stairs. Janet S (CarnS) our own publicity whore that gets off on seeing her inept comments on a liberal blog. Maybe our own ‘stalker’ trying to test the other side?

  46. 59

    Drivel spews:

    JCH @ 41 ‘served’ or ‘serviced’? The whole world want to know!!!! Be honest now, (difficult for you I know)

  47. 60

    Dr. E spews:

    “Are you Cindy worshipers the least bit embarassed by the fact that she hangs out with Murka hating thugs like Hugo Chavez? Or is that “noble”?”

    No, and the honus is on you to prove that Chavez hates the US.

  48. 61

    YO spews:

    rujax206
    tell me are you married to a slut.you sure are nasty to women if you want to use that talk call your wife asshole

  49. 62

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @49: Proud To Be An Asshole, Did you have the same outrage when Hillary ended up with 1000 raw “Republican Enemy” FBI files? [hehe]

    Comment by JCH— 2/1/06 @ 7:15 pm

    Well, fuckwad, if that was true, why yes I would be upset. So why are you not upset at Bush? Fuckwad.

  50. 64

    RUFUS spews:

    the mother of US soldier slain in Iraq – was summarily arrested, manhandled and jailed

    It could be worse. She could be from Seattle and be horsehandled. Hehehehe

  51. 65

    YO spews:

    dr e when dealing with asswipes like you thats all you need.get a life why dont you tell us about keerys plan ill be waiting.i guess you like rejacks mouth figures

  52. 67

    Dr. E spews:

    By the way, YO, what’s your political philosophy? I don’t think you’ve ever posted anything substantive here, just name-calling.

  53. 68

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @46: “Proud Ass, Why are you so upset that the NSA is protecting America by listening in on Arab terrorists calling home? Perhaps if the 9/11 boys took down the DNC Building or the New York Times Building you might have a different opinions.”

    Comment by JCH— 2/1/06 @ 7:20 pm

    Well, Lt. Fuckwad, if “they” did take down either of those two targets, it would merely point to the utter ineptness of the current administration. But you’d probably cheer, right?

    So who’s side are you really on, Fuckwad?

  54. 69

    YO spews:

    hey her son reenlised he new what the score was unlike his mother who has no clue just like the assholes who think her shit dont stink she needs to find a new cause.this one is getting old

  55. 71

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    @41: So, fuckwad Lt. JCH, did you do ROTC or did you earn your commission from the “ground up”?

  56. 75

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    Goldy, where’s your outrage for the wife of a Republican member of the House that was removed for the same reason?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11120353/

    “The extraordinary statement came a day after police removed Sheehan and Beverly Young, wife of Rep. C.W. “Bill” Young, R-Fla., from the visitors gallery Tuesday night. Sheehan was taken away in handcuffs before Bush’s arrival at the Capitol and charged with a misdemeanor, while Young left the gallery and therefore was not arrested, Gainer said.

    “Neither guest should have been confronted about the expressive T-shirts,” Gainer’s statement said.”

  57. 76

    Dr. E spews:

    CF
    You’re a bit late with this one, mate. BTW, she didn’t get arrested, Sheehan did. Sure, they dropped the charges, but they were quick to get her the hell out of there and into a squad car.

  58. 80

    RUFUS spews:

    the DNC Building or the New York Times Building you might have a different opinions.”

    Comment by JCH— 2/1/06 @ 7:20 pm

    Well, Lt. Fuckwad, if “they” did take down either of those two targets, it would merely point to the utter ineptness of the current administration. But you’d probably cheer, right?

    Comment by Proud To Be An Ass— 2/1/06 @ 8:11 pm

    No it would be devastating. It is one of the best supermarket tabloids out there.

  59. 81

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    Comment by Mark The Redneck— 2/1/06 @ 4:50 pm

    “Cracks me up that a kook like her is a hero to you moonbats. This is why Dems will NEVER be allowed to be in control of the reins of power. NEVER…”

    Don’t be a fool, of course the Democrats will be in power again some day. I would expect it to even happen in my lifetime.

    Never is a mighty long time (borrowed from Prince).

    Comment by Belltowner— 2/1/06 @ 4:57 pm

    “Anyone whose son was sent to Iraq and killed deserves some respect.”

    When you continue to pull crazy stunts to put yourself in the media limelight, make insensitive comments about other ethnic groups and associate with known bigots, the respect earned for being the mother of a fallen soldier is lost.

  60. 83

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    Comment by Dr. E— 2/1/06 @ 8:27 pm

    “You’re a bit late with this one, mate. BTW, she didn’t get arrested, Sheehan did. Sure, they dropped the charges, but they were quick to get her the hell out of there and into a squad car.”

    Sorry, I don’t hang out here all day waiting to post. Perhaps Cindy Sheehan was arrested because she refused to leave. She’s a confrontational person and has a past record of civil disobedience and misdemeanor charges. Not sure if Rep. Young’s wife falls into that category or not. I’m sure more information will come out on this, but I think it’s ironic that Goldy criticizes the MSM for not reporting on this issue enough (it was on the front page of MSNBC.com for a while today), yet he neglects to mention that others were removed for the same reason.

    If Cindy Sheehan was falsely arrested, then she has the recourse of suing the Capitol Police.

  61. 84

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    Comment by Drivel— 2/1/06 @ 8:39 pm

    “CON1st, sorry, I was unaware that you were a mother of a fallen soldier. My condolences.”

    Not sure what point you are trying to make here. Is this mindless drivel or an attempt at humorous drivel?

  62. 87

    karl spews:

    7

    She deserves all respect for her loss.

    That however does make her above reproach in her protests nor does it give her words more credence or her wild accusations any more validity.

  63. 88

    Green Thumb spews:

    Goldy’s original question has been lost in a blurr of thrown punches. Do lefties need an “exit strategy”? I hope not, but it is something worth considering. I’ve kept an eye out for dual-citizenship options in the event that things get really bad. However, I also think it important to continue fighting the good fight — with the sincere hope that things do turn around.

    Why? Because this is my home, and I don’t want to be run out of it by a bunch of lunatics. Perhaps just as importantly, in an increasingly interconnected world, the future of the U.S. has enormous implications for all other sentient beings on the planet. (Think, for example, about our pivotal role regarding global warming.) Like it or not, America is where the action is.

  64. 89

    RUFUS spews:

    Best exit strategy for Iraq, that is easy. Cause as many democrats to exit Congress in 2006. Reinstall the patriot act. We cant afford to be hit by Iran or Syria right now. Let the War run its course.

  65. 91

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    [Nothing special. I served with men far better than I.]

    Comment by JCH— 2/1/06 @ 7:13 pm

    I applaud your false modesty, Lt. JG fuckwad.

  66. 93

    Dr. E spews:

    RUFUS

    What the fuck are you talking about? Hit by Iran or… Syria?!?!? How the hell is that gonna happen? The same way the Iraqi army was about to “hit” us? Do you have any idea how far away Damascus is from any point in the continental US? Or how far away Teheran is?

    Here, let me help:
    Syria is here;
    Iran is here, right next to Iraq — which is also a long, long way from the US. Many, many miles away.

  67. 94

    Dr. E spews:

    If you look at the map, you can clearly see that, were a Syrian flotilla to set sail for the US, it’d probably get quickly interdicted by US/Israeli/Turkish/Greek/Italian/etc. naval forces in the Mediterranean. Similarly, an Iranian flotilla would get probably get interdicted somewhere in the vicinity of the Straits of Hormuz; if they were missed there, they’d be bound to get picked up somewhere along the way (and it’s a long, long way).

  68. 95

    Dr. E spews:

    By the way, if you look at where Iraq is located, you’ll see that it would have been even harder for their massive flotilla to make it, undetected, past amassed forces at the Straits of Hormuz.

  69. 96

    Dr. E spews:

    Guess that’s by Boobush cooked up his half-baked idea of “rogue nations” handing over their vast array of noxious, lethal weapons to some roving band of terrorists. Sure, it could happen, but the key word there is “could”. You don’t go launching illegal wars to prevent a remotely hypothetical “could”.

  70. 97

    jaybo spews:

    So now Goldy is guilty of doing the same thing that he vehemently condemns Richard DeBolt of.

    Maybe it’s time for Goldy to resign his position as a blogger.

    The following news article puts the Cindy Sheehan story in an entirely different light.

    “The extraordinary statement came a day after police removed Sheehan and Beverly Young, wife of Rep. C.W. “Bill” Young, R-Fla., from the visitors gallery Tuesday night. Sheehan was taken away in handcuffs before Bush’s arrival at the Capitol and charged with a misdemeanor, while Young left the gallery and therefore was not arrested, Gainer said.

    “Neither guest should have been confronted about the expressive T-shirts,” Gainer’s statement said. Gainer added that he was asking the U.S. attorney’s office to drop the charge against Sheehan. The statement also said he apologized to the Youngs and “share the department’s plans for avoiding this in the future.”

    “A similar message has been left with Mrs. Sheehan,” Gainer said.
    For his part, Bill Young said he was not necessarily satisfied.
    “My wife was humiliated,” he told reporters. He suggested that “sensitivity training” may be in order for Capitol Police.

    A foreign-born American citizen who was the guest of Rep. Alcee Hastings, D-Fla., also was taken by police from the gallery just above the House floor, Hastings said Wednesday. The congressman met with Gainer and House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., about the incident.

    “I’d like to find out more information,” Hastings said in an interview, identifying the man only as being from Broward County in Florida. “He is a constituent of mine. I invited him proudly.”
    Sheehan’s T-shirt alluded to the number of soldiers killed in Iraq: “2245 Dead. How many more?” Capitol Police charged her with a misdemeanor for violating the District of Columbia’s code against unlawful or disruptive conduct on any part of the Capitol grounds, a law enforcement official said. She was released from custody and flew home Wednesday to Los Angeles.

    Young’s shirt had just the opposite message: “Support the Troops — Defending Our Freedom.”
    The two women appeared to have offended tradition if not the law, according to several law enforcement and congressional officials. By custom, the annual address is to be a dignified affair in which the president reports on the state of the nation. Guests in the gallery who wear shirts deemed political in nature have, in past years, been asked to change or cover them up.”

  71. 98

    RUFUS spews:

    RUFUS

    What the fuck are you talking about? Hit by Iran or… Syria

    Terrorists, the ones financed on a very large scale. We killed a bunch in Afganistan but there are more left.

  72. 99

    RUFUS spews:

    You don’t go launching illegal wars to prevent a remotely hypothetical “could”.

    Comment by Dr. E— 2/1/06 @ 9:24 pm

    No you dont, but you shouldn’t handcuff yourself either. It is plain stupid not to have the same tools to investigate “rogue mosques” as we do to investigate organize crime. That is why you dems have to go.

  73. 100

    Dr. E spews:

    RUFUS

    Again, you’re talking about hypotheticals, and on top of that suggesting that conventional warfare is an effective tool for eradicating terrorism. The inverse is occurring right now in Iraq, thanks to the supreme wisdom of the current administration.

    Wanna stop terrorism? Do something about ameliorating the conditions that breed it. Last I checked, the US has no interest in such a plan whatsoever.

  74. 101

    Dr. E spews:

    That means you can probably look forward to a future without any substantial decrease in terrorism.

  75. 102

    Dr. E spews:

    “It is plain stupid not to have the same tools to investigate “rogue mosques” as we do to investigate organize crime.”

    What exactly does this have to do with waging various and sundry wars in the Middle East?

  76. 103

    Drivel spews:

    The longer GWB is allowed to spew his theocon crap the sooner this country will be involved in the next ‘holy crusade’ like back in the 1000’s. Investigating all mosques is absurd. Maybe we should investigate all Christian Churches while we are at it to ‘cleanse’ the system of predators?

  77. 104

    Dr. E spews:

    Why do you think Iran is really of interest to the current administration? Here’s one thing to consider: Ever tried moving oil from the Caspian Sea out of the region? How do you think we’re doing it right now?

    You might notice that we’ve turned a blind eye to Ilhan Aliyev (and his late father), among others.

  78. 105

    Dr. E spews:

    Geographic ignorance is a common thread here. To wit:

    “America’s foreign policy suffers from profound geographic ignorance about the rest of the world, especially the Muslim world. Many people are fond of pointing out the president’s gaffs or the opposing party’s gaffs, but no one holds a corner on the market for geographic ignorance–it’s bipartisan; pervasive among politicians, analysts, journalists and voters alike; and it’s worldwide.

    “Hardly anyone in the West truly understands the East and vice versa. They’re as ignorant of us as we are of them, largely due to exaggerated images broadcast by our own popular culture. Ignorance of allies and adversaries drives the foreign policies of all nations, not just America. Sadly, geographic ignorance today is the principal determinant of international relations, and no administration since World War II has known where to turn for answers.

    “Imagine for a moment how different U.S. policy might have been in Afghanistan and Iraq if a broad segment of society had understood the same factors for these regions that AGS geographers and cartographers mapped for Europe in 1919.”

  79. 107

    RUFUS spews:

    Wanna stop terrorism? Do something about ameliorating the conditions that breed it. Last I checked, the US has no interest in such a plan whatsoever.

    Comment by Dr. E— 2/1/06 @ 9:32 pm

    You have to look no further than Isreal. Appeasement breeds more terrorism. Killing the leaders of terrorists lessens it. It is that simple.

  80. 108

    horse whisperer spews:

    Goldy, good post. Just heard that she is not being charged as there is no law on the books to charge her with anything, other than what Bush may come up with! Perhaps I’m next for telling Goldy of the unmitigated fucking disaster ‘Brownie’ was while still at the horse association.

  81. 109

    RUFUS spews:

    “Peace through strenth” is a good policy. It was the single biggest factor in the colapse of the Soviet Union. God bless Ronald Reagan.

  82. 110

    Dr. E spews:

    “You have to look no further than Isreal. Appeasement breeds more terrorism. Killing the leaders of terrorists lessens it. It is that simple.”

    Bullshit. Such a simplistic assertion (which you’re not backing up with any evidence whatsoever) ignores the complex political and cultural history of the region, as well as its current demography.

  83. 111

    spews:

    Conservatives has SUCH a problem when it comes to resolving conflict. They’ve got a hammer and ever single problem looks like a nail.

    Liek they say in the Corp: “It’s easy to be hard, but hard to be smart.”

  84. 112

    RUFUS spews:

    “It is plain stupid not to have the same tools to investigate “rogue mosques” as we do to investigate organize crime.”

    What exactly does this have to do with waging various and sundry wars in the Middle East?

    Comment by Dr. E— 2/1/06 @ 9:34 pm

    If 911 was prevented would we have gone over the way we did to Afganstan and took that country over? Probably not. There would have been more options available to us. We could not wait after 911 because we didnt want to get attacked again. This is why the people dont trust the left when it comes to national security. I dont blame them.

  85. 113

    Dr. E spews:

    ““Peace through strenth” is a good policy. It was the single biggest factor in the colapse of the Soviet Union. God bless Ronald Reagan.”

    Reagan… the treasonous bastard behind Iran-Contra? Might as well bless his murderous emissary to Honduras, John Negroponte, right? Jesus.

    But really, MAD, although it certainly helped to weaken the Soviet Union economically, was far from the only force leading to its crumbling. No, all those East Germans taking vacations to Hungary back in 1989 certainly sped things along a hell of a lot faster than what Grandpa Reagan did in his 8 years in office.

  86. 115

    klake spews:

    “Imagine for a moment how different U.S. policy might have been in Afghanistan and Iraq if a broad segment of society had understood the same factors for these regions that AGS geographers and cartographers mapped for Europe in 1919.”

    Comment by Dr. E— 2/1/06 @ 9:43 pm
    Dr. E you have never even worn a soldier’s uniform and you also doing know what the principles are of war to win a conflict. You do what you do best and leave the fighting to those who are train to win conflicts any where in this world. The only exit plan I know is to WIN. Girlie boys please stay home and hide behind you father’s dress.

  87. 116

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The Bunny is already armed. The rest of you liberals must arm. But, if need be, Bill and the Bunny will do this job alone.

  88. 117

    RUFUS spews:

    Conservatives has SUCH a problem when it comes to resolving conflict. They’ve got a hammer and ever single problem looks like a nail.

    Liek they say in the Corp: “It’s easy to be hard, but hard to be smart.”

    Comment by Belltowner— 2/1/06 @ 9:59 pm

    Well we will keep killing them while you lefties enjoy tea and crumpets with them and together we will defeat them. Just have the tea party in their county.

  89. 118

    Dr. E spews:

    “If 911 was prevented would we have gone over the way we did to Afganstan and took that country over? Probably not. There would have been more options available to us. We could not wait after 911 because we didnt want to get attacked again. This is why the people dont trust the left when it comes to national security. I dont blame them.”

    First of all, you’re assuming that, had Gore (rightly, in my view, but that’s another story) taken office and 9/11 had happened, that he would not have responded in a commensurate fashion to protect the country. That’s unprovable, and therefore renders this talking point (not trusting the “Left” with national security) moot.

    Furthermore, if we apply Bush’s continued measure of “success” in fighting his “war on terror”, namely that there hasn’t been another terrorist attack since 9/11, then we also argue that, after the first WTC attacks in ’93, Clinton did an equally good job in handling national security.

  90. 119

    Wells spews:

    George Adolph Bushler. Get used to it. Maybe he and EvaLaura will commit suicide together when the genocidal World War III they’re orchestrating, their ‘final solution’ to excess population of the inferior poor, turns out badly for the USA. And the world’s civilized nations impose sanctions and demand reperations upon us for the crimes against humanity committed by our fascist republican fundamentalist leaders.

    Heil Bushler, motherfuckers.

  91. 120

    John425 spews:

    Cindy Sheehan is over the line when she uses her status as the mother of a fallen soldier for agitprop and uses her son’s death as a prop for political respectability.

  92. 121

    Dr. E spews:

    And with that said, I’m still too conflicted over the whole 9/11 narrative as we know it, with its unexplaineds (how both towers came down, despite scholarly research indicating that this would be nearly impossible given the circumstances, as well as the collapse of buliding 7, which was not directly hit, etc.). But that kind of questioning gets you labeled a “conspiracy theorist” in Murka.

  93. 122

    klake spews:

    And with that said, I’m still too conflicted over the whole 9/11 narrative as we know it, with its unexplaineds (how both towers came down, despite scholarly research indicating that this would be nearly impossible given the circumstances, as well as the collapse of buliding 7, which was not directly hit, etc.). But that kind of questioning gets you labeled a “conspiracy theorist” in Murka.

    Comment by Dr. E— 2/1/06 @ 10:15 pm

    Dr. E you do not qualify as a structural engineer and have you done any research about this conspiracy? Some people are still looking for black helicopters today.

  94. 123

    LiberalRedneck spews:

    And the Brits are all up in arms for losing their 100th soldier.

    That’s the “Coalition of the Willing” in a nutshell.

  95. 124

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Uh, Goldy … a GOP congressman’s wife was also hauled away for wearing a t-shirt … hers said “support the troops.” As long as they enforce the policy equally, which they did, it’s not a partisan issue. Maybe a free speech issue, or a rules issue, but … let’s not forget the “protest” of March 1, 1954, when 4 Puerto Rican nationalists shot up the House chamber, wounding 5 congressmen. I’ll bet that’s where the “no protesting” rule came from.

  96. 125

    RUFUS spews:

    after the first WTC attacks in ‘93, Clinton did an equally good job in handling national security.

    Comment by Dr. E— 2/1/06 @ 10:11 pm

    Dodged a bullet in 2000, but I cant argue with you there. No major attack on the homeland from 1993 to 2001. I just dont know how Clinton fought terrorism or what his national security policy was. Well Iam done for the night. See ya.

  97. 126

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    As for the “exit strategy,” what “exit” are you talking about, Goldy? Not thinking of going to Canada, are you??? I sure hope not!!! This is MY country, already fought for her once, will again if I have to, but I ain’t go ANYWHERE because of these fascist pigs. If they start a genocidal civil war, I’m gonna take some of ‘em with me!!!

    Liberals must arm.

  98. 127

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    A much bigger item today is the unprovoked shooting of a car chase suspect by a California cop. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10788476/

    Yeah, the car was eluding at 100 mph — but this guy was a passenger, not the driver. The cop ordered him to get up, so he did — and the cop shot him three times. Apparently shooting to kill, because he shot the guy in the chest at point-blank range.

    The provocation? Wrong skin color. Oh, btw, the victim was a military policeman who had just returned from Iraq. He’ll live. And, unfortunately for the cop, a citizen videotaped the whole incident, including good enough sound to clearly hear:

    COP: Get up.
    VICTIM: Okay, I’m getting up now.

    BANG-BANG-BANG

    COP (into radio): Shots fired! Shots fired! Shots fired!

    Let’s hope they make this fuzz trade in his badge and gun for a pinstriped suit.

  99. 128

    Dr. E spews:

    “Dr. E you have never even worn a soldier’s uniform and you also doing know what the principles are of war to win a conflict.”

    Klake, what the hell difference would that make? I’m not planning wars — we leave that kind of stuff to guys with titles like “General” and “Admiral”. (Remember what Georgie boy said last night: “those decisions will be made by our military commanders, not by politicians in Washington, D.C.”)

    The issue at hand is war as an adjunct to foreign policy — a foreign policy which is and has been absolutely disastrous and is founded on a profound and utter ignorance of the region where the war is being fought. But the miscreants who have created this foreign policy not only don’t seem to realize why they should be knowledgeable, they don’t even care.

  100. 129

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    99% of cops are decent, hard-working folks. It’s shit heads like this who give all cops a bad name.

  101. 130

    Dr. E spews:

    “Dr. E you do not qualify as a structural engineer and have you done any research about this conspiracy? ”

    That’s right, I’m not a structural engineer. That’s why I don’t do that kind of research.

  102. 131

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Kevin Carns @16

    “‘Are you Cindy worshipers the least bit embarassed by the fact that she hangs out with Murka hating thugs like Hugo Chavez? Or is that ‘noble’? Comment by Mark The Redneck— 2/1/06 @ 5:29 pm”

    Hugo Chavez is far, far away. He doesn’t have any ICBMs or nukes. Why should we care what he thinks? Oh, I know, his country is full of oil and we want it!!! Ya, I don’t think I’d like George W. Bush and his policies either, if I was Hugo Chavez. Hell, I’m an American, and I don’t like George w. Bush or his policies. Sorry, Kevin, but I have to take Chavez’s side on this one … he’s just looking out for his people, which is what they pay their president to do.

  103. 132

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    16 (continued)

    Kevin — Venezuela doesn’t belong to you, so mind your own fucking business.

  104. 133

    Dr. E spews:

    Hey Roger, did you ever hear Chavez’ account of how he ousted Pedro Carmona, after Carmona took overtook the presidency following the coup? Sounds like Chavez did quite a job outwitting the coup plotters, which must have enfuriated the half-wits in Washington something fierce.

  105. 134

    YO spews:

    GBS@134 IF SHE WOULD OF KEPT HER MOITH SHUT AND DID LIKE THE OTHER PARTY SHE WOULD OF BEEN TREATED THE SAME GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

  106. 135

    BOB from BOEING spews:

    EXIT—Some research needed – but I believe Holland nd Sweeded will give aslyum to any Gay or Lesbian American,no questions. Othe countries?

    Think about what that means – all you fucking bigots who spew here.

  107. 138

    Mark spews:

    Dr. E @ 102

    Do you have any first- or second-hand information about the fall of the Soviet Union?

    As someone who had family behind the Iron Curtain, I can tell you that Reagan had a much bigger impact on the fall than just MAD. His strong and public anti-Soviet position offered a huge amount of moral support to those who rose up to oust the Communists. In fact, it consistently was the Republican Party far more than the Democrats that supported those struggling for freedom. For example, Republicans very vocally refused to recognize illegal annexations of territory. Democrats left those countries and areas “on the table” when talking to the Soviets. How do I know? Because I’ve met &/or known people who were part of various freedom movements both over there and (supporting them) over here.

  108. 139

    JCH spews:

    Proud To Be An ass, I feel a few days in the brig on bread and water might help your negative attitude. JCH, LT, USN

  109. 140

    JCH spews:

    Proud Asshole, If the Arab raghead terrorists bombed the DNC Building or The New York Times Building, we should send a “letter of concern” to the U.N. Nothing more or less!! [hehe]

  110. 141

    Dr. E spews:

    126

    Yes; most of my second-hand experience comes from colleagues and friends in the former DDR (where I lived for a couple of years), including artists and intellectuals who agitated against Honecker. None of these people ever expressed an admiration for Reagan; their knowledge of him and his policies may have been officially limited somewhat, but, when you live in East Berlin, being able to watch the WDR and listen to West German radio seemed to be a given for many people (for my colleagues to be sure). They did provide first-hand accounts of recriminations they suffered for their dissent, although creative artists (especially musicians) fared relatively well, having to deal with losing their jobs, passport confiscation, lack of any professional outlets, etc.

    I also happened to be riding on a train from Budapest to Krakow the night the coup happened in the Soviet Union, having flown in to Budapest from Sofia, Bulgaria that morning. Prior to entering Bulgaria, I spoke to a number of Russians on the train in from Istanbul, a couple of whom expressed an honest admiration of the then Pres. Bush. (A couple of Syrians, studying in Moscow, overheard the comment and said “Bush is a dog, and should go to Hell.)” I talked to an awful lot of people during my travels back in those days (89-91), and don’t recall anyone speaking ebulliently of Reagan, but then most of them weren’t Soviet citizens, so maybe I was talking to the wrong people.