Everyone hates trial lawyers… until they need one

If I’ve learned anything from my Republican friends, it’s that trial lawyers are ruining the country. Junk lawsuits with little or no merit, malpractice suits that push good doctors out of work, and litigation against business, the result of which increases costs for all of us. Just ask Senator Trent Lott (R-MS):

“The Democrats seem to think that the answer is a lawsuit. Sue everybody.”
– Sen. Trent Lott, 7/20/01

“I’m among many Mississippi citizens who believe tort reform is needed.”
– Sen. Trent Lott, 5/8/02

“You know, obviously we should [enact tort reform]…Someday it will happen, and the sooner the better.”
– Sen. Trent Lott, 1/24/01

“If their answer to everything is more lawsuits, then yes, that’s a problem, because I certainly don’t support that.”
– Sen. Trent Lott, 8/2/02

“It’s sue, sue, sue… That’s not the answer.”
– Sen. Trent Lott, 8/4/01

Suing isn’t the answer… That is, unless you’re Trent Lott:

“Today I have joined in a lawsuit against my longtime insurance company because it will not honor my policy, nor those of thousands of other south Mississippians, for coverage against wind damage due to Hurricane Katrina,” said Lott, R-Miss. “There is no credible argument that there was no wind damage to my home in Pascagoula.”

What a douche bag!

A guy who took a lot of hits for being a trial lawyer is Sen. John Edwards. He made his name in North Carolina’s courtrooms by winning verdicts and negotiating settlements for regular people hurt by the actions of others. When Republicans attack trial lawyers, I like to think of the folks Edwards has helped:

In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit on the Lakeys’ behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin corporation that manufactured the drain. Attorneys describe his handling of the case as a virtuoso example of a trial layer bringing a negligent corporation to heel. Sta-Rite offered the Lakeys $100,000 to settle the case. Edwards passed. Before trial, he discovered that 12 other children had suffered similar injuries from Sta-Rite drains. The company raised its offer to $1.25 million. Two weeks into the trial, they upped the figure to $8.5 million. Edwards declined the offer and asked for their insurance policy limit of $22.5 million. The day before the trial resumed from Christmas break, Sta-Rite countered with $17.5 million. Again, Edwards said no. On January 10, 1997, lawyers from across the state packed the courtroom to hear Edwards’ closing argument, “the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen,” recalls Dayton. Three days later, the jury found Sta-Rite guilty and liable for $25 million in economic damages (by state law, punitive damages could have tripled that amount). The company immediately settled for $25 million, the largest verdict in state history. For their part, Edwards and Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers of America’s national award for public service.

I’m sure it would have been easier for John Edwards to take a small settlement, collect his percentage, and leave the Lakey’s to figure out how to make ends meet. But he didn’t. If Edwards is a greedy trial lawyer, we need more like him.

If you’re interested in meeting the guy, he’s going to be in town this weekend promoting his new book.

University Bookstore
4326 University Way, NE
Seattle, Washington
Saturday, December 2 at 1:30 p.m.

Hope to see you there!

(This is my first post here at HA. I’d like to give a big ‘thank you’ to Goldy for passing the megaphone and allowing me this opportunity. Read more at my blog, Washington for Edwards.)


  1. 1

    ArtFart spews:

    I wonder what Lott has to say about Bush’s grand public pronouncement that he was going to get a “fine new house”?

    Then again, what has Dubya ever said in public that wasn’t a lie?

  2. 3

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Breaking News — Bush’s Secret ‘Enemies List’

    “Millions of Travelers Rated for Terror Potential
    “Assessments Cannot Be Viewed or Challenged


    “WASHINGTON (Dec. 1) – Without their knowledge, millions of Americans … crossing U.S. borders … have been assigned scores generated by U.S. government computers rating the risk that the travelers are terrorists ….

    “The travelers are not allowed to see or directly challenge these risk assessments, which the government intends to keep on file for 40 years. …

    “Some privacy advocates call it one of the most intrusive and risky schemes yet mounted in the name of anti-terrorism efforts.

    “Virtually every person entering and leaving the United States by air, sea or land is scored by the Homeland Security Department’s Automated Targeting System, or ATS. The scores are based on ATS’ analysis of their travel records and other data, including items such as where they are from, how they paid for tickets, their motor vehicle records, past one-way travel, seating preference and what kind of meal they ordered.

    “The … program … was quietly disclosed earlier this month when the department put a notice detailing ATS in the Federal Register, a fine-print compendium of federal rules. The few civil liberties lawyers who had heard of ATS and even some law enforcement officers said they had thought it was only used to screen cargo. …

    “David Sobel, a lawyer at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a group devoted to civil liberties in cyberspace [said,] ‘It’s probably the most invasive system the government has yet deployed in terms of the number of people affected.’

    “Government officials could not say whether ATS has apprehended any terrorists. …

    “‘Homeland Security ought to focus on the simple things it can do and stop trying to build these overly complex jury-rigged systems,’ said Barry Steinhardt, an American Civil Liberties Union lawyer, citing problems the agency has had developing a computerized screening system for domestic air travelers. That data-mining project … caused a furor … in Congress. Lawmakers barred its implementation until it can pass 10 tests for accuracy and privacy protection.

    “In comments to the government about ATS, Sobel said, ‘Some individuals will be denied the right to travel and many the right to travel free of unwarranted interference.’ Sobel said in the interview that the government notice also raises the possibility that faulty risk assessments could cost innocent people jobs in shipping or travel, government contracts, licenses or other benefits.

    “The government notice says some or all of the ATS data about an individual may be shared with state, local and foreign governments for use in hiring decisions and in granting licenses, security clearances, contracts or other benefits. In some cases, the data may be shared with courts, Congress and even private contractors.

    “‘Everybody else can see it, but you can’t,’ Stephen Yale-Loehr, an immigration lawyer who teaches at Cornell Law school, said in an interview. …

    “Jayson P. Ahern, an assistant commissioner of Customs and Border Protection, said the ATS ratings simply allow agents at the border to pick out people … as potential terrorists or criminals and send them for additional searches and interviews. …

    “This targeting system goes beyond traditional watch lists, Ahern said. Border agents compare arrival names with watch lists separately from the ATS analysis. … Ahern said ATS does this by applying rules derived from the government’s knowledge of terrorists and criminals to the passenger’s travel records. Ahern declined to disclose any of the rules ….

    “In the Federal Register, the department exempted ATS from many provisions of the Privacy Act designed to protect people from secret, possibly inaccurate government dossiers. As a result, it said travelers cannot learn whether the system has assessed them. Nor can they see the records ‘for the purpose of contesting the content.’

    “Jim Malmberg, executive director of American Consumer Credit Education Support Services … said it has been hard for citizens, including members of Congress and even infants, to stop being misidentified as terrorists because their names match those on anti-terrorism watch lists. He noted that while the government plans to keep the risk assessments for 40 years, it doesn’t intend to keep all the underlying data they are based on for that long. …”

    12/1/2006 11:49:28 EST


  3. 4

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    This is a throwback to the old discredited schemes of trying to predict criminal behavior with crude profiling. When you idiotic Republican fucks get this perfected, will you give me some stock market tips?

  4. 5

    coiler spews:

    Edwards is the only viable candidate I see as Obama chose to vote to give Condi a new job title instead of firing her. I also think John talks about the issues and is actually trying to do something about poverty and the middle class with his position as director of the Center of Poverty, Work and Opportunity at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

  5. 6

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I wasn’t impressed with Edwards in the VP debate. Cheney walked all over him. Kerry was far better prepared and far more able in the debates. I like Edwards, but I just don’t think he’s necessarily the strongest candidate.

  6. 7

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I think Democrats should forget policy nuances and focus on taking back the White House, period. They should nominate the candidate with the best chance of winning. We’ve got to get our government back before the Republicans turn our country into a fucking police state.

  7. 8

    Jim spews:

    #5: Condosleezza’s new job title should be “inmate.” See that pile o’ rocks, girl? Now git over there and split those great big rocks into smaller ones. GIT. And no help from Rummy, Cheney, Wolfie, Smirky McFlightsuit, or any of the other inmates.

    Actually, when she is in the dock at the Hague being tried for war crimes, the rocks aren’t part of the picture. But at least it’s a possibility, eh?

  8. 9

    coiler spews:

    The new dems would like to see winning the WH by being GOP lite, turning as far to the right as nec. No thanks, the gop has never moved to the left or even center. They like Hillary but she is just to the left of that pos Lieberman. Anyone who voted for the Patriot Act should be voted out for treason.

  9. 11

    Yer Killin Me spews:


    Wouldn’t that leave, like, one guy in the Senate?

    Not that I would mind a Senate that was all Feingold all the time, I guess, I just seem to remember that he was the only one who didn’t vote for it. Correct me if I’m wrong, please.

    And he dropped out of the race for President before he ever really got started. Bummer.

  10. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Another Bellevue Construction Crane Is Defective

    “From KING / KING5.com Staff Reports

    “BELLEVUE – Crews have begun dismantling a construction crane in downtown Bellevue just a few blocks from a fatal crane collapse earlier this month ….

    “The entire job site was shut down …. Monitors watched the crane overnight to make certain it remains upright. The contractor is dismantling the crane today ….

    An official with Hanover Construction … said a second crane will be brought in to help disassemble the damaged crane. … While the regional manager of Hanover Construction insists there is no imminent danger, he is letting residents of four nearby buildings know that there is … a problem. … People living in nearby buildings were asked to voluntarily leave their homes.”

    Quoted under Fair Use; for complete story and/or copyright info, see http://tinyurl.com/y3kfju

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Another fucking market failure … any of you rightys wanna argue we have too much guvmint regulation of construction cranes?

  11. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    10 Pay your gambling debt or get the hell out of here, welsher! Nobody is interested in your ersatz engineering opinions.

  12. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Two defective construction cranes in two city blocks in two weeks. How’s that deregulation working out for ya, Redneck? Do ya think the market’s “invisible hand” is pushing over these cranes? Or is it possible that greedy contractors trying to squeeze the last nickel of profit out of the projects are cutting safety corners?

  13. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Here’s an “invisible hand” for you: Trial lawyers. You cut corners to make $10,000 more profit … you get to pay a $10,000,000 judgment. Do ya think THAT would make greedy contractors think twice before risking innocent lives to make a few more bucks? If not, how about firing squads?

  14. 16

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    I was researching the linkage between poor WASL scores and the fraction of students on the taxpayer paid lunch program. Turns out SSD did the work for me and agrees with my hypothesis that stoopidity causes poverty and tends to run rampant in certain neighborhoods.

    Turns out that the school where Goldy sends his daughter that the majority of chirrens there are on the taxpayer paid lunch program. It also turns out that the performance of students on the math WASL at Graham Hill is SUBSTANTIALLY BELOW other schools with similar levels of taxpayer paid lunch participation.


    A while ago, Goldy was whining about being broke because he pisses away all his time here on HA. So I’m assuming that he enrolled his daughter in the taxpayer paid lunch program for his daughter.

    So tell ya what Goldy… in the interest of doing what I can to protect your daughter from the stoopidty of your choices, I’d be willing to send $100 to Graham Hill school in your daughter’s name so that she can eat lunch and relieve you and the rest of the taxpayers from that burden for a while.

    What say you Goldy?

  15. 18

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Or having incompetent unlicensed people like Tamara Hardy in charge of safety.

    They prolly hired a girl so they could pay her less.

  16. 19

    Don Joe spews:

    MtWR, several folks have pointed out that the foundation of your argument regarding Tamara Hardy is as busted as was the foundation of the crane that toppled. Yet, you keep pressing your argument into service without ever addressing the fact that the argument is based on a false premise.

    I do hope you construct physical objects better than you construct argments, or is that why you spend your time talking to kids about becoming engineers rather than actually being an engineer?

  17. 20

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    16 Why limit stoopidity to poor neighborhoods? The GOP took stoopidity and put it in the highest levels of our government! Mighty creative of them.

    Reminds me of the Nixon days … Nixon promised to rid the streets of crime, and he did. He took it off the streets and put it in the White House …

  18. 21

    My Left Foot spews:

    Hey Mark @ 16:

    At the risk sounding rude and crude. Fuck you, asshole. You are a lying, welching piece of shit. Your fakakta brain (yiddish, look it up) is in need of a lobotomy. You fancy yourself a genius, but everyone sees right though you. Your schtik is to muddy the issue and claim you can see through the mud. The worst thing that ever happened to you was the creation of Google. This, as we all know, is where you have derived your sense of genius.

    Then you come up with this condesending offer to “pay” for his daughters lunch. You fucking, cocksucking, ass-licking, drug addicted (that has to be your excuse), low-life sonofabitch. We all know you don’t want to pay, so now you come with this “offer” that completely slams Goldy, and attacks what you perceive to be, his ability to provide for her. Where do you get off with this shit? You lost a bet. You don’t want to pay. Fuck you!!

    Anytime you would like me to back these words in person, just let me know.

    Carl Grossman
    Liberal, Democrat, Jew, Father and ready to meet you anytime, anywhere.

  19. 22

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Huh? I’m wrong that a technically competent person should be in charge of safety? That’s why the state licenses engineers…. to protect the safety of the public.

    Tamara Hardy is not qualified to do the job she’s in. She should be fired or demoted and someone who is qualified should be there. In fact, not only should the person in charge of safety be a PE, but they should have a steel license too.

  20. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    21 “So tell ya what Goldy… in the interest of doing what I can to protect your daughter from the stoopidty of your choices, I’d be willing to send $100 to Graham Hill school in your daughter’s name so that she can eat lunch and relieve you and the rest of the taxpayers from that burden for a while.”

    So Redneck … if Goldy accepts your offer — which I think he should — will you renege on this too? Just wondering.

  21. 24

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Geez Grossman, you got issues. All I’m trying to do is feed a child. Is that so bad?

  22. 25

    Don Joe spews:

    You gotta love the Republican way of thinking. First, the argument against regulation is that individuals are free to sue firms that wrong them. Then the Republicans turn around and argue for “tort reform,” which undercuts the ability of individuals to right the wrongs that have been done to them.

  23. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    17 Technical problems are man-made phenomena, not acts of nature, and as such can be prevented with adequate inspection/regulation.

  24. 27

    My Left Foot spews:


    In case I was not clear enough:


    Anytime, any place.

    Make my day, Mark, call my bluff. I am calling yours. You are just another arrogant, egotistical bastard. Problem is that you have less to back it up than anyone I have ever met, seen, known or passed by.

    FUCK YOU! You spineless, sniveling coward.

  25. 28

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    LMAO… only an idiot fucking lawyer would say that.

    That’s one for the archive.


  26. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    22 “That’s why the state licenses engineers…. to protect the safety of the public.”

    Where were your precious licensed engineers when we needed them?

  27. 31

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    24 Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: Geez Grossman, you got issues. All I’m trying to do is feed a child. Is that so bad? 12/01/2006 at 12:54 pm

    Let me explain it, Mark. Feeding hungry children is so completely out of character for Republicans like you that naturally we suspect you poisoned the food.

  28. 32

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Grossman – so you’re against feeding children. What a cold heartless bastard you are. Fuck you.

  29. 33

    Don Joe spews:


    “Huh? I’m wrong that a technically competent person should be in charge of safety?”

    Yup. In fact, links to the the evidence that shows you’re wrong on this has been posted a couple of times.

  30. 34

    Goldy spews:

    MTR @16,

    FYI, my daughter does not qualify for free and reduced price lunch, and I prepare her a healthy lunch every day I have her.

    That said, if you would like to send $100 to the Graham Hill PTA and specifically target it to pay for lunches for kids who come to school without one (or for any other purpose,) I would happily accept verification of such a gift as meeting the terms of our wager. And of course, I would honor your anonymity.

  31. 35

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey Redneck — I wonder how ATS scored you? I bet the incompetent Bushies have pegged you as a “potential terrorist.” You seem like the type. You look ugly, too. Even your dead crack-whore ex-wife thought you were ugly!

  32. 36

    My Left Foot spews:

    MTR @ 24:

    Fuck you. You are denigrating someone you don’t know. You are belittling someone you don’t know. You are casting clouds over someone you don’t know, all in an effort to make yourself feel better. All you have done is to make yourself out to be the fool.

    You don’t have anything except a face full of pimples and time on your hands sitting in momma’s basement.

    Now, Mark, prove me wrong. And address me as Mr. Grossman. You have no honor and no respect. You have no right to address me as if you know me and we are friendly. We are not.

    In case you did not understand: Fuck you, asshole.

  33. 37

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The silver lining in Bush’s secret “enemies list” is the incompetents running TSA probably put a bunch of wingfuck traitors on it, too.

  34. 38

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    DonJoe, so you say we SHOULD have incompetent people in charge of safety.

    Good thinkin…

  35. 40

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Goldy – Does not qualify? How the fuck can that be? I thought you said you were broke. Was that a lie?

  36. 41

    My Left Foot spews:

    Mark @ 32:

    I am not as forgiving as Goldy. Nor as flexible in my thought (the military does that to a man). I am all for feeding children, you fuck-hump. I am not for belittling a man and using his daughter as the vehicle.

    Fuck you, coward.

    I said earlier today that I do not suffer fools or idiots. You are in a select group, Mark, you are covered under both categories. Quite the achievment, ass wipe.

  37. 43

    Right Stuff spews:

    I think we should profile……As a matter of fact, I would submit for a license to travel via air carrier, that requires an FBI background check… Or on the other hand, how about we let everyone carry a weapon…..if they choose….. of cousre after licenseing, qualification and certification by the FBI.
    Armed passengers…… now that’ll stop a box cutter any day.

  38. 44

    Don Joe spews:

    “DonJoe, so you say we SHOULD have incompetent people in charge of safety.”

    Nope. I’ve claimed, and have posted links to actual evidence in support of the claim, that “competent” with respect to directors of safety does not include engineering.

  39. 45

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    40 Hey Redneck — Goldy just ACCEPTED your offer! Are you gonna pay now — or will you wriggle out of this, too, on some flimsy pretext?

  40. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s been over a year, Redneck, but better late that never. Remember, Jesus loves a reformed sinner. Maybe He could even love YOU …

  41. 47

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    My offer was to protect Goldy’s daughter from his bad choices. Goldy made a counteroffer which constitutes a rejection of my offer. I reject Goldy’s counteroffer and the original offer is now dead.

  42. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    43 Would you feel differently if you knew they would totally fuck it up … and confuse you with some guy in northern Spain?

  43. 50

    Another TJ spews:

    Armed passengers…… now that’ll stop a box cutter any day

    And bring down a hell of a lot of planes.

  44. 51

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Rabbit – Are you arguing that the beneficiary in a contract is not a material term?

  45. 52

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    43 This administration can’t even hang onto a purse with Secret Service agents standing 10 feet away.

  46. 53

    Another TJ spews:

    goldy…are you really this naive? no way……..
    edwards didn’t settle because then HE wouldn’t have gotten as much money. get a clue.

    We have a winner: the first person to confuse the author of the post with Goldy.

  47. 54

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    47 Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: My offer was to protect Goldy’s daughter from his bad choices. Goldy made a counteroffer which constitutes a rejection of my offer. I reject Goldy’s counteroffer and the original offer is now dead. 12/01/2006 at 1:12 pm

    You know, Redneck, I could accept the fact you’re a liar and welsher. That I can live with. It’s your fucking hubris that’s annoying …

  48. 55

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Hey Grossman – Do you feed your kids yourself, or do you have the taxpayers pick up the tab?

    Should I send $100 to your kids’ school?

  49. 56

    LeftEqualsLoser spews:

    I guess you have verified the citizenship of every employee of every company you do business with.

    Going to have to do better than that to discredit this man.
    Of course Hillary has no baggage… right? uh-huh.

  50. 58

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I think Goldy should publish Redneck’s real name, along with his HA credit history. It would serve Redneck right. Then we’d see how long anyone would be willing to do business with him, and how long he’d have a job. Redneck might be more appreciative of government food programs if he had to depend on one to feed himself. It’s time for Redneck to find out what soup lines are all about.

  51. 59

    My Left Foot spews:

    Mark @ 47:

    So you were not really interested in feeding “children”. You were only interested in humiliating Goldy.

    My father taught me that a man’s true colors will always shine through if just given enough time. How does it feel to have no honor and no grace? You lost a bet that, clearly, you can not afford to pay. Just own up to it, Mark. You will feel much better.

  52. 61

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    For a minute there, I was afraid Redneck might actually pay the bet. Then we’d have to quit calling him a welsher. Fortunately, we were never in serious danger of Redneck redeeming himself.

  53. 62

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Great session so far….

    Roger Rabbit thinks the laws of man trump the laws of physics.

    Don Joe thinks we should have incompetent people in positions of protecting public safety.

    Grossman wants to starve innocent children.

    And Goldy still thinks he can dictate terms to me.

    Fuck all of you stoopid heartless bastards.

  54. 63

    My Left Foot spews:


    Household income here exceeds the need for your “charity”. My children are grown, college educated and productive members of society. One is serving in the military, carrying on, what is now, a tradition of service. You, on the other hand seem to only service your cock with your hand while turning yourself on with your self-judged cleverness and wit.

    Send the $100 to the Mattel Childrens Hospital at UCLA. (What, are you against helping sick children?) Wait, I forgot…you don’t have $100. Lying welching coward.

  55. 65

    ArtFart spews:

    Hey, Mark…now that you’ve tried to change the subject anyway, and you evidently read the Pea-Eye:

    You keep blabbering about Tamara Hardy. So, who the hell is Wilbur Wasson?

  56. 66

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    62 Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: Roger Rabbit thinks the laws of man trump the laws of physics. 12/01/2006 at 1:20 pm

    Where did I say that? All I said was, you licensed engineers go ahead and do your thing, so we lawyers can do our thing. Please, please, please keep putting up defective cranes, Mark! All I want is my 40% contingency cut.

  57. 68

    Don Joe spews:


    “Don Joe thinks we should have incompetent people in positions of protecting public safety.”

    Nope. On the other hand, you’ve just flunked the reading portion of the WASL.

  58. 69

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Roger Rabbit says:
    Technical problems are man-made phenomena, not acts of nature, and as such can be prevented with adequate inspection/regulation.
    12/01/2006 at 12:55 pm

  59. 70


    another tj….you are RIGHT. i am the foolish first winner of the “goldy didn’t write this” contest.
    i’ll bet my prize will be mocking, no?

  60. 72

    Another TJ spews:

    another tj….you are RIGHT. i am the foolish first winner of the “goldy didn’t write this” contest.
    i’ll bet my prize will be mocking, no?

    There may be more columnists these days, but this is still HA, right? Of course you’ll be mocked. We’re not changing horses in mid-stream – not if I can help it.

  61. 73

    ZA spews:

    And let’s not forget about Tom Delay who sued the manufacturer of the lift on which is father was injuried. Tom and the Delay family also had his father removed from life support.

  62. 74

    Don Joe spews:

    “Sure a lot of hostility out there today. Wonder why…”

    Most of the denizens of HA don’t take kindly to people who are as cavalier with the truth as you. You are the very incarnation of what’s wrong with this country. Why should you be surprised that thinking people would be hostile whenever you show your fetid face?

  63. 75

    Another TJ spews:

    Tom and the Delay family also had his father removed from life support.

    But Terri Schiavo was a beloved mother, daughter, and wife; Tom DeLay’s father was an ass. You have to understand, it’s not a betrayal of pro-life principles if the person in question deserves to die. [end sarcasm]

  64. 77

    Don Joe spews:

    “okay another tj……i like my crow medium rare thank-you-very-much. :)”

    Sorry. We only know how to do something well, and when we’re finished, it’s very well done.

  65. 78

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    DonJoe – “Cavalier with the truth”? When? Name one time I haven’t been honest.

    Due to your lack of intelligence, you might disagree with my opinion, but I have never misstated a fact. Never.

  66. 79

    My Left Foot spews:

    Yesterday I had the under with 5 posts being the benchmark before someone miss-credited a post. I believe (without clicking back) we have had two. What do I win? (I am just glad it was not me).

  67. 80

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Hey Rabbit – So tell us as a highpowered attorney… is identification of the recipient of money in a contract a “material term” or not?

  68. 82

    My Left Foot spews:

    Hey Mark:

    Tell us, why do you lie and welch? Why do you build your ego here with total strangers? The only purpose you serve is to remind us why we can’t stand conservative, egomanicle assholes.

  69. 83

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    I come here to study the disease of librulism. Fascinating study…

  70. 84

    Don Joe spews:


    “Due to your lack of intelligence, you might disagree with my opinion, but I have never misstated a fact. Never.”

    Wrong. In fact, you did so in this very thread.

  71. 85

    My Left Foot spews:


    You did not answer my questions. You answered your own question that you made up in your head.

  72. 86

    rhp6033 spews:

    Gee, and I was going to post on-topic, but MTR’s continued renewed attempt to welsh on the bet seems to have taken over the board again.

    Let’s summarize. MTR offered a bet. Goldy accepted. Goldy helpfully provided instructions to MTR on how to make payment when MTR loses. MTR doesn’t object. Then MTR loses. Then MTR claims he couldn’t pay to the Cantwell campaign, as Goldy requested, because the site was down. Then he tries to argue that Goldy’s payment insructions invalidated the debt. Nobody bought that lame excuse, and reminded MTR of the fact he was a welsher everytime he posts.

    So MTR tries to get out of it, and make a political point, without actually having to pay the money. He offers to pay money to Goldy’s school to credit against Goldy’s daughter’s “school lunch program” account. Of course, Goldy’s daughter doesn’t participate in the school lunch program, so MTR figures he won’t have to pay anyway. When Goldy points this out, but agrees to accept MTR making payment upon the bet by making to the school lunch programs generally. Of course, MTR refuses. He never had any intention of paying. Now for the next six months he will claim (again) that he tried to pay the debt but Goldy wouldn’t accept it.

    I’d say that MTR is a “unique individual”, but unfortunately his attempts to cheat others, and pass the cost on to them, is typical of Republicans these days.

  73. 88

    Another TJ spews:

    Tell you what, if you win, I’ll never post here again. If I win, you never post here again. Deal?

  74. 89

    rhp6033 spews:

    Okay, back on topic. I think I’ve posted this here before, but since it is relevant to the topic, I’ll do so again.

    A good friend of mine is a trial lawyer. One of his neighbors is a physician, and he hates trial lawyers generally, but they manage to get along as neighbors.

    One day the physician approached my friend, and asked if he could have some legal advice. It seems that the physician’s wife was involved in a serious automobile accident, and it would take quite some time to recover, and they weren’t sure if she would ever recover fully. The most the other driver’s insurance company would offer was a few grand – barely enough to pay the medical bills to that point, but nothing for future care, much less loss of wages or pain & suffering, etc.

    But he didn’t want the case to be handled on a contingent fee, becuase he didn’t believe in them. He wanted to pay hourly. But when he saw the estimates of the total attorney time it would take to prepare the case for trial, he decided that a contingent fee wasn’t such a bad thing after all.

    They really did have to go to trial before the insurance company made their first real offer. Since they already had performed the work at that point, they told the insurance company to go screw themselves, they would take their chances with the jury. They ended up with twice the amount of the insurance company’s final offer.

    The physician completely changed his tune after that experience. He remarked, over and over again, about how he would have had difficulty paying for the trial out of his pocket, and he couldn’t imagine how anyone earning less than him could ever afford to pursue a case against an insurance company.

    My Dad once said that the way to train a mule was to first hit him in the head with a two-by-four. That was to get his attention. Unfortunately, sometimes Republicans have to get hit in the head with a two-by-four before they understand that everybody is better off when trial lawyers are prepared to protect the rights of the individual.

  75. 90


    don joe @77…touche’ pussycat, touche’……but i MUST add that it’s so well done it’s burned beyond recognition.
    and since i just know that all of you liberal democrats wouldn’t want to be acting like bigots maybe you could stop with all the welching [which is inncorrect anyway] and welshing comments???
    in case you didn’t realize it, that phrase, just behind calling someone a taffy, is the “n” word for people from wales…..and their ancestors.
    like me.
    and i know [from what all of you are always saying] that you wouldn’t want to use something that has a longer history than even the “n” word as being a bigoted insult, right?

  76. 91

    rhp6033 spews:

    MTR at 80: If I may answer on behalf of RR, since I first brought up the subject of “material terms” to the contract:

    No, identification of the recipient of the money is not a material term in your contract with Goldy. There was no specific prohibition against non-assignability, so he could assign your debt to whomever he wished, and directed you to make payment accordingly. Since you didn’t make it a pre-condition, you had no right to make it a condition after the fact.

    It’s kind of like when your creditors assign you to a debt collection agency, a circumstance with which you are probably personally familiar.

    You probably don’t know that every time you write a check, you are creating an assignment of payment. You are directing the recipient of your check not to go to your home to collect the payment, but to instead go to your bank, who will pay the debt on your behalf from funds they owe you (deposits in the bank credited to your account).

    But if you offer to make a payment at a location which you know cannot accept the money because they have no account with Goldy, like a bank with which he has no account, or like his children’s school lunch program, then you are making a spurious offer of payment because you know it will be impossible for you to perform. Yet when Goldy allows you to make a similar payment at the same location in a manner which is possible to perform, you refuse.

    Quit trying to justify your welching on a legal basis. You don’t have the knowledge or background to do it properly.

  77. 93

    ArtFart spews:

    Mark (and everybody else), I wasn’t trying to be antagonistic. I’m really wondering who’s who and what’s what. This morning’s article named Wilbur Wasson as the “project safety director” for Lease Crutcher Lewis. So, is Tamara Hardy the equivalent person for the subcontractor who set up the crane? Or…is she working for LCL and did they trot this outher guy out in front of the press to cover their butts?

    Lease Crutcher Lewis built an addition to our church a few years ago. A much smaller project (no cranes involved, by any means) but they seemed well-organized and highly professional. Got the job done on time and within budget.

  78. 94

    sgmmac spews:

    Another TJ,

    Terri Schiavo was not a mother. Unfortunately, her husband killed her before she could expierence that joy. Of course, he fathered two kids while still married to Terri…………

  79. 97

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    “The crane was erected Sept. 9 at the site of a 20-story office building under construction at the corner of Northeast Fourth Street and 108th Avenue Northeast in Bellevue, said Tamara Hardy, safety director for Northwest Tower Crane Service.

    Hardy said her company constructed the crane tower, but that the design of the base was overseen by the general contractor, Lease Crutcher Lewis, and approved by an outside engineer.”


  80. 98

    My Left Foot spews:

    Gee sgmmac you are now making up facts. The government went up the husbands ass with a giant speculum, the Senate of the United States of America got involved and, still, no one has ever proven that he killed his wife. Terry’s parents screamed, but they had no standing. It was sad, but that was the law. Live with it. Lesson to be learned….Well Shithead, leave a fucking living will.

    Funny how that works.

  81. 99

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    Mark The Redneck seems VERY interested in Carl’s kids. Could we have republican child rapist number 2,828,939,999 on the line?

    Hey MTR you pedophile troll. Stay the fuck away from our kids. Go fuck your ped buddy Tom Foley. Asswipe!

  82. 100

    My Left Foot spews:

    Next to disingenuous in the dictionary is a full color picture of MarktheAssholeFoley.

  83. 101

    rhp6033 spews:

    “Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says:
    rhp – For the record… you are a fucking idiot.
    12/01/2006 at 4:15 pm ”

    My parents always taught me that your character can be deduced by who considers you a friend, and who considers you an enemy.

    So MTR, I thank you for your opinion. Coming from you, I consider that high praise. If a person like you, who welches on his obligations, avoids a rational discussion of issues by spewing prejudiced opinions like rat droppings, gives spurious legal justifications and then hurls insults instead of discussing the issues, if that person considers me an idiot, then surely I must be doing something right in the world.

  84. 102

    Don Joe spews:

    “and since i just know that all of you liberal democrats wouldn’t want to be acting like bigots maybe you could stop with all the welching [which is inncorrect anyway] and welshing comments???”

    Actually, both spellings are acceptable (according to Webster’s), and, for the refusal to make payment there is, unfortunately, no synonym. At this rate, we could probably substitute Mark the Redneck’s name, but that wouldn’t be fair to all other Marks or rednecks out there.

  85. 103

    rhp6033 spews:

    MTR, I have a novel idea. Why don’t you ask Goldy how he wants to be paid? Its easy – just ask him “Where do you send the check?” That’s what the rest of us do if we lose a bet. (For me, that’s usually hypothetical – I rarely bet on anything).

    It’s not like he asked you to push a peanut with your nose down Union street.

    So instead of being called names, and trying to justify non-payment with spurious arguments about contract law with which you only have a passing knowledge, why don’t you just pay the debt?

  86. 104

    sgmmac spews:

    Another TJ,

    Who went to court to get her feeding tube yanked out? Her husband.

    When it was removed, she dehydrated to death. So, who killed her, her husband. She died the same way thousands of brain injured patients in pre WWII Germany died. Starved and dehydrated to death slowly over 2 weeks of agonizing pain.

    We treat fucking animals better than we treat the mentally incapacitated!

  87. 105

    rhp6033 spews:

    Hey, I just got a bill from a vendor. 146K+ for avionic componants. Included was a notice that we should send our payments to a new location – instead of payment by check, we should make wire transfers directly to their bank.

    Maybe I should take MTR’s advice about contract law, and inform the vendor that I’m going to keep the parts but not pay the bill, because their change in payment terms constitutes a “non-conforming acceptance” of the contract?

    Gee, maybe I’d better not. For one thing, they would never sell me aircraft parts again. For the second thing, they would sue me, and I would lose, and then I would owe court costs, my attorney fees, their attorney fees, interests, etc.

    See, MTR – it really is that simple. Quit trying to complicate the issue.

  88. 106

    Another TJ spews:


    She was dead long before the tube was removed. She wasn’t simply “mentally incapacitated.” Deal with reality; it’s warm and cozy in here.

  89. 107

    sgmmac spews:

    My left foot,

    The government didn’t go up that ass with anything. There are some web sites out there that do have some serious dirt on him.

    There were and are multi-millions of dollars involved in the right to life and right to die causes, most especially with the hospices.

  90. 108

    rhp6033 spews:

    MTR, if you really have such a problem with making a payment to Maria Cantwell’s campaign, just offer to make a payment to a neutral charity, in a manner whereby the payment can be verified. I’m sure there are lots that will accept your money, such as the Red Cross, etc., and if you ask, they will probably send a card to Goldy saying that you had made a contribution in Goldy’s name. You could have them send the card to KIRO, and he would probably (eventually) get it.

    I think Goldy would accept payment in such a manner. And then we could just quit arguing about it.

  91. 109

    sgmmac spews:

    Another TJ,

    It is nicer to believe that. Unfortunately, it can’t be proved, even the autopsy didn’t prove it. It did prove that she was severly brain damaged, it also found that she didn’t collapse the way her husband claimed in his lawsuit, you know the one where he got hundred of thousands of dollars in damages.

    People who are truly brain dead don’t feel pain and she was given pain killers for years, right up to when she died…….

  92. 110

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    71 Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: Sure a lot of hostility out there today. Wonder why… 12/01/2006 at 1:36 pm

    If you’d ever been stiffed by someone who owes you money, you’d know why. But nobody has ever owed you money because you’ve never done anything to earn money. Pay up, loooooooooooooser or I’ll tell Goldy to turn your account over to Luigi’s Collection Service.

  93. 111

    rhp6033 spews:

    “Right Stuff says:

    I think we should profile……As a matter of fact, I would submit for a license to travel via air carrier, that requires an FBI background check… Or on the other hand, how about we let everyone carry a weapon…..if they choose….. of cousre after licenseing, qualification and certification by the FBI.
    Armed passengers…… now that’ll stop a box cutter any day.

    12/01/2006 at 1:09 pm”

    Yep, that will do it. Somebody pulls out a box cutter, and everybody on the plane starts spraying bullets.

    Ever wonder what a bullet hole does to a pressurized cabin at 35,000 feet? Try it on your own aircraft, and let us know (if you survive).

    If that doesn’t do it by itself, then perhaps the bullet can take out a wire or two, causing the pilot to lose control of the tail rudder and elevators.

    Or maybe one will hit the oxygen generator which sits inside your passenger control unit, and provides oxygen to your mask in the event of an emergency. You know, the same device which brought down the Valuejet airplane in Florida about ten years ago, when a live oxygen generator was loaded as cargo, was banged around in the hold until it went off, creating both heat and pure oxygen (an interesting combination) which eventually caused a fire which brought down the entire airplane within minutes of the event. There’s a whole bunch of them on every commercial airplane, I’m sure if you get enough bullets flying, one will hit its mark.

    Yea, arm everybody. That’ll work. Oh, and make sure you train them, so they can be at least at good at shooting as the NYPD recently was when they expended some 50 bullets to stop an SUV, although only about 26 actually hit the vehicle. I wonder how many rounds aircraft passengers would spray in a crowded airplane?

    Yep, armed aircraft passengers with firearms will solve the problem. That’s the ticket!

  94. 112

    Roger Rabbit spews:


    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: Hey Rabbit – So tell us as a highpowered attorney… is identification of the recipient of money in a contract a “material term” or not? 12/01/2006 at 2:16 pm

    No. All you need is offer, acceptance, and consideration. If you don’t believe me, pay Davis Wright Tremaine $500 an hour to tell you the same thing, then pay up! You can trust DWT — they’re a good Republican law firm, hell they represented Dino Rossi in Wenatchee.

  95. 113

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    But as I’ve said before, Redneck, gambling debts are not legally enforceable. So why would contract law apply to a gambling debt that is only a moral obligation? The issue here is whether your word is worth anything. Right now, everyone on HA thinks you’re a welshing cheapskate liar. If you’re happy with that, fine. If you want to clear your name, then stop quibbling over fine print and just pay the fucking debt. I’m sure a guy who claims to have 4 college degrees can figure out who to write the check to, if he works on it long enough.

  96. 114

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    You know what I love? The righties are sticking with the same old Karl Rove talking points that led to them getting devistated in Nov. This is good news. In 2008, in the Senate, the righties have to defend twice as many seats as the Dems do. If they keep up the same old bullshit, we’ll have a fillabuster-proof Senate. Then, we can run this country and way we see fit.

    So you right wing traitors keep that shit up – PLEASE. It worked so well for you in November right?

    HE HE!

  97. 115

    CandrewB spews:

    Expanding on DeLay and throwing in a little Santorum to boot…

    Another one for the Rep. Tom DeLay (R-TX) files: according to a new report from the Environmental Working Group, Tom DeLay and his family filed a $15 million defective product lawsuit in 1990 — the very type of lawsuit he is now seeking to restrict on Capitol Hill. As EWG reports,

    The family sued under a theory that a coupler manufactured and distributed by Midcap Bearing Corporation and Lovejoy, Inc. was defective and caused the trolley to lose control. This is exactly the legal theory that DeLay has sought to prohibit communities from using to clean up drinking water contaminated with the gasoline additive MTBE, manufactured by major oil and chemical companies in his district.
    Last month, the Association of Trial Lawyers of America noted DeLay’s hypocrisy, as well as that of his Senate compatriot Rick Santorum (R-PA), who supported his wife’s medical malpractice suit seeking damages in excess of what Santorum’s medical malpractice bill would allow:

    “We don’t resent Rep. DeLay or Sen. Santorum for seeking justice in the courts. Any fellow human being has compassion for a family that loses a father too young, or a woman facing a life of pain and disability. DeLay and Santorum were both represented by trial lawyers.

    For them to now demagogue against victims and the trial lawyers who helped their families in order to further the radical agenda of their corporate contributors is insulting to the pain and suffering of victims, including their own family members.”

  98. 116


    don joe…i don’t give a rat’s ass what webster’s says. really. is the “n” word in there? the whole word? does that make it acceptable?
    hell no.
    and welch is a LAST name and has nothing to do with “welshing”….a term the nasty english used and still do to slander people from wales.
    why can’t you just accept that and …i don’t know….apologize?
    you know….that whole “act like an adult” thing.

  99. 119

    Don Joe spews:

    Ghost, I’ll make you a deal. You give me another word in the English language that conveys precisely the same meaning, and I’ll apologize.

  100. 121


    okay…how about PIKER?????
    there……will that work for you?
    but really……it makes me think. if you have to have “another word” to use before you will stop using an offensive one [while still getting your message across] what does that say about you?
    not trying to be confrontational……i’m just interested.

  101. 122

    Don Joe spews:

    Sorry, Ghost, but “piker” is not a synonym. A “piker” is a small-time gambler, but there is no connotation for “piker” that convays the failure to pay up on a bet.

  102. 123

    Don Joe spews:


    “okay…how about PIKER?????”

    One can pay one’s gambling debts and still be a “piker.” There is, unfortunately, no synonym for “welsher” (other than “welcher”).

    “not trying to be confrontational……i’m just interested.”

    You’re missing the point. There is no other word in the Enlgish language that conveys the same connotations. Sorry.

    As for what it says about me, I think it says that I have a preference for being precise. What does it say about you that you started this little exchange out by comparing “welsher” to the “n” word?

  103. 124

    Libertarian spews:

    I suppose people would think more highly of trial lawyers if there weren’t lawsuits for ridiculous occurrences. Grandma spills coffee on herslf, and that’s worth $3 million? A lady let’s her kid runwild in a grocery store, the kid gets underfoot and she trips and hurts herself. How is that the fault of the grocery store? An old man confuses the brake pedal with the gas pedal in San Diego and slams into a bunch of people at the farmer’s market. Why is that the fault of the city?

    If trial lawyers are suing real culprits, then fine and good, but they have a penchant for suing anybody for any reason and long as they think they can get money out of theses frivolous lawsuits. We should adopt the English system wherein the loser pays the court and attorney fees in civil suits. That might help stop these hungry lawyers going for the deepest pocket.

  104. 125

    rhp6033 spews:

    Libertarian at 124: Your opinion of trial lawyers is being prejudiced by the media campaign practiced by big insurance companies. The will “leak” stories of people “winning big settlements” of millions of dollars for “ridiculous” claims.

    The problem is: personal injury lawyers will seldom take a frivolous claim in a contingent fee basis. To do so, they might as well start the paperwork for bankruptcy proceedings at the same time they file the paperwork. Modern litigation defended by a large insurance company is very expensive for the attorney. Not only does he/she work unpaid for several years, committing thousands of hours to the case, but others in the firm also have to be paid during that same preriod of “no income”. Then you have the costs to be paid – copies of medical records ($1.00 per page X 980 pages, paid in advance, please), expert witnesses & doctors ($320 per hour including investigation, deposition preperation, deposition time, trial preperation, trial time including “stand-by-time”, payment made in advance, please).

    And in actuality, only the most solid cases actually result in a payout. Lots of deserving cases never get filed because there are problems which cannot be resolved – the witness who moved and cannot be re-located, expert witnesses unwilling to testify if it will hurt their standing in their profession, etc.

    And lots of juries are very stingy. If you check the records of actual jury verdicts, then you will see that they are not nearly as free with the money as you might believe them to be. A more typical result is: “okay, the defendant was negligent, and it cause the person to hurt their back and be off work for a year, but I once had an uncle who had a similar injury and he was better in only three months, so let’s give him his actual medical expenses of $12,000 plus $15,000 in lost wages/pain and suffering, and I’m being generous”.

    Listen very carefully when you hear those news reports of the “ridiculous” verdicts. Anytime you hear someone say that the plaintiff “won a settlement”, with the emphasis on “won”, remember that they didn’t “win” a lottery. Instead, the insurance company decided that they had a substantial risk of losing a case which would result in a large verdict, and decided to settle instead. If you think that they do that easily, try negotiating with your own insurance company the next time you have a claim for twice what they offered.

    The fact is that the insurance companies have media departments that get their own version of the cases out to the news media, so everyone can comment upon how “ridiculous” they are, with the real version of the events lost in the news cycles. You will see this most often right before another political push for “tort reform”. Their goal is to make it too expensive for the claimants to press their case, by making it nearly impossible for the attorneys to be paid for their work. If the claimants can’t hire attorneys, then they have to accept whatever payouts the insurance companies propose.

  105. 126

    Libertarian spews:

    rhp6033 @ 125:

    All lawsuits are not necessarily against insurance companies. Ordinary folks get sued, too.

    But here’s an interesting story. I assume you are familiar with the PBS show “Frontline.” Back about 1976 or 1978, somewhere in there, PBS aired a “Frontline” program called “After the Crash.” It concerned the crash of a Boeing 737 in Kenner. Louisianna. Before the fires from the crash had been extinguished, lawyers were on scene scouting for clients. It reminded me of a shark feeding frenzy.

    It depicted lawyers in such an unfavorable light, the trial lawyers of America sued PBS to cease and desist showing the program.

    Well, no surprise there – the trial lawyers won their suit, and PBS was forced to stop the show. The only reason I got to see the show was that I saw it at the Air Force’s Flight Safety Officer School at Norton AFB, CA in 1984. The safety school purchased a tape of the show before the law suit was settled and showed it to all of its classes. PBS, after they lost the suit, asked the Air Force to return the tape, but the AF did not do so because the service had already paid for the tape. It’s was the property of the AF Safety School fair and square, and the AF refused to return the tape.

    This tape showed trial lawyers literally harrassing accident victims before the bodies of their loved ones were cold. It was pretty disgusting behavior, and if you were to have an opportunity to see it, you might not be so pro-trial lawyer.

    OK, the trial lawyers actually do some good, I’ll agree with you on that one. But the bad things that come out about them often negate anything good. As we say in the Air Force, one “Aw, shit!” can wipe out a thousand “Attaboys!.” Elevating lawyers to saint status is premature.

  106. 127

    Don Joe spews:

    By the way, Ghost, the word “piker” is a reference to Pike County, MO, as, apparently, folks there tended to not be very big gamblers. Replacing “welsher” with “piker” is merely a shift in the group of people who are offended.

  107. 128


    actually don joe…you are wrong again.
    piker does not offend any specific group of people. and welsher does. the WELSH. it is a fair comparison to the “n” word. very very fair. that you cannot grasp that is puzzling…to say the least. people move in and out of pike county [if that is actually where the word came from]but when you are welsh [or black]…you just are.
    and a piker is someone who goes back on his word. see the similarities?
    i think i smell a “big word for the day” user here…..
    which would make you a ‘wet smack’. look that one up….and it won’t be on your how-to-impress-people-with-a-big-word calendar.LOL.
    but good try at trying to get both feet out of your mouth. and as usual…the liberal finds a hidey-hole and doesn’t admit that HE WAS WRONG.
    big surprise.