by Goldy, 12/28/2009, 10:55 AM

Ever been sick on an airplane? I have, once while flying back from Mexico, and it was awful. But at least the flight crew didn’t have me hauled away in handcuffs at the end of the flight:

A Nigerian man who became ill on Northwest Airlines Flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit — the same flight involved in Friday’s terrorism attempt — triggered a security alert at Detroit Metropolitan Airport after the pilots requested emergency assistance upon landing, the Department of Homeland Security announced on Sunday. The department said that the response to Sunday’s incident, which included informing President Obama, was “an abundance of caution.”

Earlier in the afternoon, Delta Airlines, which acquired Northwest last year, said in a statement that the crew had requested police assistance on the ground because a passenger was “verbally disruptive.” The Transportation Safety Administration said in a statement that it had been alerted to a “disruptive passenger on board” Flight 253. The T.S.A. said that the flight landed safely at Detroit International Airport at approximately 12:35 p.m. Eastern “without incident.”

Homeland Security press secretary, Sara Kuban, released a statement, sorting out what had happened on the flight.

“A passenger on today’s Northwest flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit spent an unusually long time in the aircraft lavatory,” she said in the statement.

And then, according to other reports, the passenger became “verbally abusive” (whatever that means) after the flight crew kicked open the bathroom door. For that he was handcuffed and arrested.

In related news, airline stocks are down sharply in the wake of this weekend’s events, and I can understand why. I myself was preparing to make reservations for our annual February trip to take my daughter to visit Grandma in Florida, but have been given serious pause… not due to fears of increased terrorism, but due to fears of the TSA and airline industry response.

There was a time when airline personnel would attempt to deal with sick and/or legitimately disgruntled passengers by offering them an upgrade or a free drink or perhaps just a pillow, a blanket or a smile. Now they increasingly pull the security card at the slightest provocation, as happened to me last year near the end of a particularly torturous travel day.

Yes, there was a time when the airlines treated us like customers, but no more. And that has made an already uncomfortable and stressful experience downright dreadful. Thinking back to that godawful, intestinally challenged flight from Mexico, at least the flight attendants were sympathetic and accommodating. Had I been forced to remain in my seat for the last hour of the flight, as new regulations now require on international flights landing in the U.S., I can assure you I would have literally shit my pants. Explosively.

The fact is, as scary as the Christmas Day incident was, it was unsuccessful, as has been every other attempted airline attack since 9/11. By all means, we should remain vigilant, as the the passengers and crew of Flight 253 clearly were in subduing the alleged terrorist and extinguishing his incendiary device. But let’s not lose perspective.

The goal of the terrorists is, after all, to instill terror. Let’s not do their job for them in the guise of TSA theater.

84 Responses to “Even Unfriendlier Skies”

1. Mr. Cynical spews:

Goldy spews–

Thinking back to that godawful, intestinally challenged flight from Mexico, at least the flight attendants were sympathetic and accommodating. Had I been forced to remain in my seat for the last hour of the flight, as new regulations now require on international flights landing in the U.S., I can assure you I would have literally shit my pants. Explosively

Man, you are kind of fragile, aren’t you Goldy.
If you weren’t so full of shit, it wouldn’t have been such an issue.
Stay away from those 5 Peso Taco Stands if you go to Mexico again Goldy.
You are what you eat!

During times like this, especially after an incident involving a Nigerian…can’t you give the flight attendents a little slack for erring on the side of caution?
How come the guy didn’t answer them???
I doubt he was that sick that he couldn’t tell them what is happening…he just choose not to.

Methinks you are in the minority with your outrage Goldy.

This takes the focus off the failed Obam-Mao Administration kumbaya policies…for a moment.

2. I Got Nuthin' spews:

The response to this incident is unbelievable. There is something like 13 million commercial flights per year in the US alone. 1 out of 13 million–how many zeros is that to the right of the decimal point in terms of percentages? Of course, if you’re on that one flight, the percentage goes up to 100%. But, as a frequent flier, I’m willing to take that chance in exchange for basic, humane comfort and treatment.

3. Alki Postings spews:

Like most of these “mistakes” it shouldn’t have happened. So days after a Nigerian tries to blow up a plain, if YOU’RE a Nigerian and you’re doing something unusual, like locking yourself in a bathroom for an hour, you should EXPECT that might cause a problem.

The correct action here? When the flight attendants came to the restroom and knocked on the door and asked the man to open the door, he should have. Period. He should then have explained he was staying in the restroom because he was so sick. End of story. If this man REFUSED the flight attendants request to open the restroom door, they had every right to kick in the door and handcuff him. Petty or not, you have to obey the flight attendants orders. You can complain, sue, or yell at customer service when you’re on the GROUND, but while flying you can’t just refuse and lock yourself in the restroom and refuse to open the door…if that’s what happened.

#1 – What’s with the endless child like name calling? Obama can’t be Mao like if he’s taking the “peoples” money (taxes) and giving it TO for-profit private corporations. That’s the opposite of socialism. I tire of the Republicans on here who think Obama is a magical robot alien commie monster out to destroy real America. Grow up. He ain’t perfect, neither was Reagan, Bush, Clinton or Carter. Stop the child like name calling, it just makes you look silly.

4. I Got Nuthin' spews:

Fly much Cynical? Me thinks not. If you did, you’d have your fucking trap shut right now. Well maybe not…total ignorance has never stopped you from spouting off in the past. Why don’t you do us all a favor and STFU???

5. ArtFart spews:

@1 Cyn, I think I’m completely with you on this one. Heck, was this guy “verbally abusive” before the crew kicked the door in, or did he even answer the shouts through the door asking what was going on? At some point it would seem prudent to act on the possiblity that someone who’s been in the loo for that long might have a serious medical problem and be in need of help.

Maybe restroom doors on airliners ought to have locks that the crew can open with a key.

That all being said, the “one-hour” rule is problematical–it excludes from air travel anyone who can’t reliably go for an hour or more without going to the head, including small children, people with Crohn’s disease and us ordinary old geezers with shrinking bladders or growing prostates–and I can just imagine what’s going to happen to the first guy who tries to go through “pat-down” security wearing a Texas catheter and a leg bag. Oh, yeah…then there’s the other half of the human race to whom that option isn’t available.

If passengers have to face the prospect of having to use a seat someone else peed or crapped in an hour or so earlier, the air travel industry’s going to collapse even before it’s done in by the cost of fuel.

6. John spews:

The fact is, as scary as the Christmas Day incident was, it was unsuccessful, as has been every other attempted airline attack since 9/11.

I’m not sure what the point of this remark is. It was unsuccessful because of a faulty detonator and alert passengers, NOT because the system worked as Napolitano originally claimed (and you seem to suggest).

I don’t think a lot of people would fly on planes if the roll of the die is all we have to depend upon.

Frankly, we have plenty to be concerned about, sorry to say.

7. worf spews:

@4 – Fly? Now that cheetos can be ordered online, cyndie doesn’t leave his room. Not even when his mother tells him to.

8. Thomas spews:

Moreover, for anyone who’s traveled by air in the last five years, are our fears at all allayed by the state of the TSA’s activities.

I wouldn’t trust most of the people inspecting luggage to cook a burger, change oil or shovel shit with any degree of competence, let alone be responsible for the lives of hundreds of people.

9. SuperSteve spews:

Enough Already!

We know, for a fact, that we could save tens of thousands of lives every year if we cut the speed limit nationwide to 30 mph – but we don’t do it because that would be inefficient, inconvenient, and just plain stupid.

Yet we’re doing equally inefficient, inconvenient, and stupid things in the name of “safety” and “security” when it comes to airline travel?

Yes, we should have prudent common-sense security measures in place – but now we’re going beyond reasonable, and we’re way beyond the point at which we have to call BS on all of this.

They now want passengers to remain seated during the final hour of a flight. What makes Homeland Security think that terrorists wouldn’t be equally satisfied if they detonated themselves 61 minutes before touchdown?

No access to personal items – the same items that were x-rayed, scanned and sniffed before we even got on the plane?

Really – what kind of idiots are being paid how much money to come up with these paranoid non-solutions?

Why don’t they just order that everyone be sedated, shrink-wrapped and strapped down prior to takeoff?

10. Michael spews:

@1

You mean the kumbaya policies that lead to attacks on terrorists in Pakistan, Somalia, and Yemen, a refocusing of the war in Afghanistan and the prosecuting of terrorists? Those kumbaya policies? I’m somewhat under-thrilled with the Obama Admin., but that doesn’t mean that I can just make shit up.

You’re right about cutting the flight crews a little slack.

James Howard Kunstler has about the right take on things.
http://kunstler.com/blog/2009/12/forecast-2010.html

11. Mr. Cynical spews:

4. I Got Nuthin’ spews:

Fly much Cynical? Me thinks not

I have flown about 12 times/yr. for the past 35 years. Not much.

12. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

The fact is, as scary as the Christmas Day incident was, it was unsuccessful, as has been every other attempted airline attack since 9/11. What? It was unsuccessful because the terrorist masters didn’t know how to properly set the PETN with the liquid chemical additive. Luckily he singed his nuts.

Apparently FartyArt doesn’t fly much…

Maybe restroom doors on airliners ought to have locks that the crew can open with a key.

Most airlines have a latch they lift up to insert a key to slide the lock latch back on the bathrooms. Ever watch flight attendants prepare for take off FartyArt?

And Incompolitano is a real retard! After telling MSMers Dec. 27 the attack failure showed the security system had effectively worked, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Incompolitano backtracked Today on the Today show, “Our system did not work in this instance. No one is happy or satisfied with that.” Well DUH Janet! Figger out what happened in Amsterdam!

13. Steve Schwartz spews:

I wish someone would point out that the Airline’s current efforts at making us pay for every comfort is itself making terrorism easier.

a. charging for checked luggage encourages carry on.

b. charging for food encourages carry on.

c. high seat density makes surveillance more difficult and increases passenger discord.

d. banning cell phone/inet communication from the plane to the ground.

Many of these make acts of terror easier to commit. This is especially true when the tactic, like the xmas underware caper, is one not yet in the public eye.

14. Roger Rabbit spews:

I have an enlarged potash and can’t hold it for an hour so I’m gonna pee on the seat.

15. headless lucy spews:

# of Americans killed on 9/11 = approx. 3,000

# of Americans who die each year because of no health insurance = approx. 45,000

Who’s the real terrorist?

16. Roger Rabbit spews:

“Yes, there was a time when the airlines treated us like customers, but no more.”

There was? I don’t remember it. They’ve always treated us like cattle.

17. Roger Rabbit spews:

@1 Is there anything to eat in Mexico besides 5 peso tacos? I’ve never been to Mexico, but friends tell me you’ll be all right if you sterilize everything you eat and drink by soaking it in Jack Daniels.

18. headless lucy spews:

Mitch McConnell kills more Americans each year than terrorists ever have.

19. headless lucy spews:

Mitch McConnell kills American babies who have pre-existing conditions — the deadliest of which is Senator Mitch McConnell.

20. Roger Rabbit spews:

@6 What does Napolitano have to do with this? She inherited the TSA clusterfuck from you guys. Have you already forgotten?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001977322_tsa12.html

“Workplace conditions jeopardize passenger safety, screeners say

“Copyright 2004, The Seattle Times Company

“On any given day, federal workers who screen passengers and luggage at the nation’s airports stand a good chance of being berated by bosses, harassed on the job, injured while lugging heavy bags, ordered to work extra hours or cheated on their pay. …

“Some screeners struggle to stay awake while trying to spot weapons in grainy X-ray images. Some get distracted by managers prowling for petty infractions. …

“Fatigue, fear and confusion undermine the work of federal screeners, creating a daily risk of another major breakdown. …

“TSA has subjected screeners to ‘extreme stress,’ the memo says. It places impossible obstacles before them. It whipsaws them with shifting directives on how to do their job. …

“”Our screeners have endured false promises from hiring contractors, weeks or months with no (or incorrect) pay or benefits, competency testing, right-sizing, mandatory conversion to part time, forced overtime, and now a recertification process that shows no regard for screener morale, effectiveness, or livelihood,’ the memo says. …

“In stories striking for their similarity — whether their airport is in Los Angeles, Houston, Boston or elsewhere — employees described a workplace defined by intimidation, pettiness and marching orders that fluctuate by supervisor, shift and airport. …

“Many screeners interviewed by The Times complained of inexperienced supervisors, leadership by intimidation, and promotions based on favoritism ….

“Mismanagement hobbled TSA from the very beginning. … To handle recruitment, TSA hired … a data-processing company that billed the government … more than seven times its original contract. TSA failed to keep proper tabs on …contractors, creating a host of problems, according to a government audit.”

Roger Rabbit Commentary: Other problems described in the article include: High turnover, low pay, poor training, and high injury rates. But here’s the capper:

“TSA forbids screeners to bargain collectively.”

Note the date on the article — 2004. That’s right, this clusterfuck, this mismanagement, this magnum failure, all revolved around one thing: The Busheviks’ sole priority was avoiding unionization of airport security workers at any cost — even at the cost of national security. Yes, Bush delayed homeland security legislation for over a year while a wrangled with Congress over whether HS could belong to unions. He got his way, and the result was the worst abuse of a federal workforce in the nation’s history. But abusing workers is the only thing that’s important to Republicans. By comparison, the danger of terrorists blowing up airplanes takes a back seat.

Why would anyone vote for these clusterfuckers?

21. headless lucy spews:

C’mom, all you ‘pro-lifers’! Let’s hear you weigh in on all those babies Mitch is killing.

22. Roger Rabbit spews:

@8 As this week’s incident again demonstrates, all that airport screening is nothing but feel-good window-dressing, intended for consumption by the gullible masses.

23. Roger Rabbit spews:

@12 “Most airlines have a latch they lift up to insert a key to slide the lock latch back on the bathrooms. Ever watch flight attendants prepare for take off FartyArt?”

Apparently this one doesn’t, or they would have done it, instead of kicking the door in and necessitating an expensive repair — don’t ya think?

Good God, you’re an idiot, poodle.

24. ArtFart spews:

@10 What I’m most concerned with about the new administration in that department is that we’re still wasting resources yanking our cranks in Iraq.

It would seem that “fighting them over there so we won’t be fighting them over here” didn’t pan out all that well.

Regardless of who’s running the show, I’ll betcha we jump into Yemen right away quick. After all, not only might there be some terrorists there….there’s definitely oil.

25. ArtFart spews:

@23 Well, Roger, there’s one detail I haven’t yet seen anything about. Might have been that they couldn’t get the door open because the guy was leaning on it or had propped something against it–which might imply that there’s more to this incident that they might not want us to know about yet.

This is not to say that Pudpuddle isn’t just talking out of his ass.

26. ArtFart spews:

@20 Let’s not forget that one of the effects of the creation of the DHS was to take thousands of jobs in dozens of agencies out of the civil service system. Treating workers like pond scum isn’t likely to engender stellar job performance.

27. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

FartyArt,

Her Goebbels Dumb Bunny isn’t too bright. BTW you chose ArtFart FartyArt, so who writes out of their ASS everyday?

28. Jason Osgood spews:

RR @ 20

TSA: screw the workers, more money for cronies. Classic Shock Doctrine.

I’m more worried about mistakes by overworked, underpaid pilots than terrorists.

I’m 6’2″ and 210lbs. I fidget and have mild claustrophobia. I need to get up, move around, stretch. Next time I fly, I’ll need Ambien to survive the flight. The upshot: I’ll be asleep if anything bad happens.

29. jon spews:

@20 What does Napolitano have to do with this?

You know, one BIG difference between you and a real bunny, dumb bunny, is you have a little less stuffed between those wax-filled ears.

30. Brenda Helverson spews:

I was amazed at how quickly the TSA instituted nationwide rules after the little incident in Detroit. It’s almost like they planned it.

If we were serious about airline security, the airport screeners would be Federal employees, with all of the rights, responsibilities, and accountability that goes along with it. As it is now, TSA is answerable to nothing and nobody.

31. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

I was amazed at how quickly the TSA instituted nationwide rules after the little incident in Detroit. It’s almost like they planned it.

Brenda, you sound like a 2007/2008 HA Libtardo. These fools claimed the Terror Alert Level was raised each time by Bush himself when something political happened.

32. Politically Incorrect spews:

# of Americans killed on 9/11 = approx. 3,000

# of Americans who die each year because of no health insurance = approx. 45,000

Who’s the real terrorist?

Actually, it’s the terrorists who are the terrorists. The insurance companies just want to make outrageous profits. They don’t want to terrorize the people who they don’t want to insure or who can’t afford insurance premiums.

We have Islamic terrorists because of our foreign policy towards the Muslim world for the past 60 or 70 years. We’ve been to quick to support Israel, no matter what. What we ought to do is withdraw entirely from the Middle East and let that part of the world run its own affairs. If it means the Islamic world attacks Israel, then so be it. Let the chips fall where they may. We need to start acting like the Swiss and stay out of other countries’ problems!

{Note: because the word “terrorist” appears in this comment, somebody from the National Security Agency is probably reading these words. Hello, NSA person! How’s the weather back in Northern Virginia?}

33. ArtFart spews:

@32 The United States has several reasons for doing what it does in the Middle East. Blind support for the Israelis, even as they move ever closer to treating the Palestinians as badly as the Nazis did the Jews in Europe, is merely the most absurd.

34. rhp6033 spews:

Art @ #5: “Maybe restroom doors on airliners ought to have locks that the crew can open with a key.”

The lavatory doors I’m familiar with can be opened rather easily from outside, if the person inside isn’t trying to stop someone from opening them. (I’m not going to tell you how they do it – there are some things which should have limited publication). I haven’t been on a Delta/Northwest flight in about a decade, so I don’t know who their galley and lavatory supplier is, so their door mechanisms might not be the same as those with which I am familiar.

As for the Nigerian who wouldn’t open the bathroom door: Once when I was in graduate school I worked with a Nigerian in a clinic. He was rather cooperative with me, but when the file got assigned to a woman, he wouldn’t answer her questions or acknowledge her presence. He later cornered me and asked why I had insulted him by referring his matter to a “mere woman”. I don’t know if this type of prejudice was specific to this one individual, or widespread in Nigeria, but I have to wonder if this guy just didn’t want to discuss his bathroom and health problems with a “mere woman” (assuming the flight attendant was a woman).

35. Politically Incorrect spews:

@33,

This is one of those rare times when we’re in agreement. I think we both feel it’s time to close down the shows in Afghanistan and Iraq. Enough is enough! Let’s worry about our country for a change!

36. rhp6033 spews:

# 32: Terrorism isn’t merely because of U.S. policies toward Israel. It has several sources.

The most common is U.S. support of friendly (but non-democratic) regimes in Muslim countries. People tend to get upset when they think that the secret police are using equipment and data from U.S. intelligence services to beat them, and U.S. arms to put down any attempts to overthrow the regime. But there’s usually a reason why we support the autocratic regimes. The alternative may be worse (as with the Taliban in Afganistan & Pakistan, or the Wasabi radicals in Saudi Arabia). Or it may simply be that we need their oil.

The second largest reason why terrorists hate America isn’t because of our military or foreign policy – it’s because of cultural encroachment. Islamic fundamentalists see western movies, music, and cultural habits as a threat to their vision of what an Islamic nation should look like. This is especially true with respect to women – our idea of individual liberty and freedom of expression for women looks, to them, like the glorification of prostitution.

Finally, note that many Imans have a rather poor congregation (or whatever they call those who attend a mosque), and their status is dependent upon their influence. Some choose to indulge in firing up their congregation with tales (real or imagined) of U.S. insults to Islam, or the need for Muslims to support their fellow believers against the cruelties of the “Great Satan” (presumably the U.S.), etc. Many of their followers are illiterate or no exposure to news or opinions other than those offered by the Iman.

This populist appeal is perhaps more understandable when compared against similar fundamentalist “crusades” in the U.S. We have Limbaugh’s war on anything he decrees to be “socialist”, O’Reilly’s annual outcry against the “War on Christmas”, and Chis Mathew’s ranting against the “cultural pollution” caused by immigration, etc.

37. rhp6033 spews:

Puddy @ 31: In the case of the Bush administration, it was a well-grounded suspicion. It got so you could predict (within a week or so) of news relating to terror threats, and a consequent increase in the terror alert level, depending upon how close we were to an election. I have no doubt that at some point we will learn that the release of the Bin-Laden tape right before the last Bush-Kerry debate was actually an old tape that was ordered release by either Rove or Cheney (or both).

38. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

treating the Palestinians as badly as the Nazis did the Jews in Europe

This old fuck has totally lost it. Puddy will save this post for later!

39. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

The lavatory doors I’m familiar with can be opened rather easily from outside,

Thanks rhp6033 for helping the world to see how Herr Goebbels Dumb Bunny is as stupid as ever!

40. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

I have no doubt that at some point we will learn that the release of the Bin-Laden tape right before the last Bush-Kerry debate was actually an old tape that was ordered release by either Rove or Cheney (or both).

Really rhp6033? Puddy never suspected you’d be a deliverer of conspiracy theories… but now Puddy stands corrected.

41. ArtFart spews:

@38 “This old fuck has totally lost it.”

Indeed you have, dear fellow. Indeed you have.

42. MikeBoyScout spews:

@13. Steve Schwartz – good points. Thank-you.

43. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

@41… Wrongo fool! You lost it with

treating the Palestinians as badly as the Nazis did the Jews in Europe

You lost FartyArt.

Dismissed by your own ABSOLUTE Stupidity!

The Prosecution Rests Your Honor!

44. Steve Schwartz spews:

27. Puddybud Thinks He Is the Mad hatter

Her Goebbels Dumb Bunny isn’t too bright. BTW you chose ArtFart FartyArt, so who writes out of their ASS everyday?

45. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

So Steve Schwartz,

Do you agree with FartyArt’s@33 Israeli description?

46. Steve Schwartz spews:

@ 33. ArtFart

@32 The United States has several reasons for doing what it does in the Middle East. Blind support for the Israelis, even as they move ever closer to treating the Palestinians as badly as the Nazis did the Jews in Europe, is merely the most absurd.

This kind of stupid comment obstructs any real effort to make peace in the mid east. If you want REAL analogies to the Palestinians then you might think about Tibet, Andrew Jackson’s Indian policies, Russia’s efforts to colonize Latvia, Father Sierra in California, etc.

Peace can ONLY come to Palestine when both sides are willing to let the others live within teanble boundaries. Palestinian demands for ALL of Jerusalem and for “return” mean there will never be peace. Israel has gone pretty damn far to the right in response to that sort of demand.

Adding “progressive” voices to that sort of depiction of Israel is like adding gasoline to a burning building. Within Israel this encourages a terrible sort of fatalism, a belief in an eternal state of war. Here in the USA, that kind of thinking led to the Bush-Jews and their support for the Iraq war.

Personally I think Netanyahu is a Bush clone. Not to bright and not very ethical. The only thing worse are the SOBs in Hamas, they are bright and vengeful.

Guess who gets hurt by that sort of thing?

47. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

Thank you Dr Schwartz for explaining it to FartyArt. While Puddy doesn’t agree with all of your analogies, the bulk of it works.

Also you left out the “actions” of Ehud Barak (אֵהוּד בָּרָק)!

48. Steve Schwartz spews:

@38 rhp

while I agree with some of what you say, I also think it is foolish to downplay the real issues in Islam itself.

Like Christianity, Islam is a religion of conversion. There is NO history of tolerance and very little history of functioning as a minority within other cultures. While there certainly have been efforts to create peaceful, tolerant variants of Islam (Akbar, Baha’i, Sufi) none of these have done very well.

Combined with the very real gripes about Western (Christian?) cultural imperialism and anger over economic hegemony by non believers (to Islam, China, atheistic Europe, and Hindu India are all despicable), it is hard to see how Islam can promote peace.

This brings me to the dirty words .. profiling and tolerance. The idea that one’s membership in an organization lith bigotry as a large part of its agenda is NOT a pointer toward worries by the others makes little sense. Islam is as worrisome as Northern Irish Catholicism was during the IRA period.

How does one be really tolerant while also being critical?

49. Steve Schwartz spews:

38. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

treating the Palestinians as badly as the Nazis did the Jews in Europe

This old fuck has totally lost it. Puddy will save this post for later!

Yeh?

Trouble is the evangelicals who see Israel through the rosy glow of religious extremism are the WORST bunch of war hawks.

As a zionist, I wish both sorts of bigots, the do gooder progressives and the holier than thou Christians-for-Israel would get the hell out of our semitic pants. My dream is that we semites kick both of you out and make peace between sibs!

50. Jason Osgood spews:

Puddy @ 31.

No. Brenda sounds like Tom Ridge.

51. headless lucy spews:

re 49: That would be great. Then we could stop supplying you with all those free armaments.

52. Jason Osgood spews:

Steve Schwartz

Do you also post as “SJ”, short for Seattle Jew? If so, as a favor to me, can you please post using a single name?

@ 48

Like Christianity, Islam is a religion of conversion. There is NO history of tolerance and very little history of functioning as a minority within other cultures.

Wrong. Every religion has a policy of tolerance or aggression as circumstances dictate. Cite: One World, Under God by Robert Wright.

As a zionist, I wish both sorts of bigots, the do gooder progressives and the holier than thou Christians-for-Israel would get the hell out of our semitic pants.

As one of those vile do-gooder progressives, I’m thinking I should be offended by your latest outburst. Unfortunately, I can’t figure out what you’re talking about.

Starting to repeat myself: Please stop. You’re not helping.

53. Jason Osgood spews:

Hi Brenda.

@ 30

I was amazed at how quickly the TSA instituted nationwide rules after the little incident in Detroit. It’s almost like they planned it.

Yup. Use the latest events to justify one’s agenda. Standard operating procedure.

To be clear, the TSA doesn’t plan for these crises, as in cause them. They anticipate them, and are ready to roll.

(I know what you meant. But it has to spelled out for the slower students in class.)

54. rhp6033 spews:

Puddy @ 40: I don’t believe in most conspiracy theories. I don’t believe aliens are imprisoned in a secret base near Roswell, New Mexico. I don’t believe that the moon landings were a hoax. I don’t believe that F.D.R. new of the Pearl Harbor attack and allowed it to happen in order to get the U.S. into a war with Germany. I don’t believe that the 9/11 attacks were a CIA project by the Bush administration.

But I found I was nieve about a lot of things. I thought nobody would try to steal a U.S. election. I thought no President would send U.S. troops into war on a pretext. I thought no high official of an administration would seek to punish a CIA official by causing her undercover identity (and those of others dealing with her) to be published. I thought no administration would willfully obstruct aid to a major U.S. city suffering from a national disaster in order to depopulate it for electoral advantage (I’m referencing the glacial approval of reconstruction funding, not the immediate aftermath of Katrina, which is another subject). I thought no administration would be so cynical and pathological to use terror alerts to influence major elections.

In all of the paragraph above, I have to choose between believing whether each of these instances are cases of mere incompetence, reckless disregard for the interests of the U.S. people, or malicious intent. One or two I might ascribe to incompetence. Perhaps three could be malicious disregard. But four or five? This evidences a plan or design, and a willingness to ignore the consequences to the American public and our basic constitutional protections in order to gain partison advantage.

55. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

Wow rhp6033, you sound a lot like correctnotright now…

I thought nobody would try to steal a U.S. election.

Nobody did. Puddy has explained this through libtardo MSM sites over and over about 12 times now. Al Gorebasm chose to recount only four Democrat counties instead all 67. When the rest of Florida sued saying they were discriminated against, Gorebasm ran out of time based on Dec 12th Electoral College vote. Do you need to see the URLs where Al Gorebasm admitted he screwed the pooch? Do you need to see what Al Gorebasm did to Martin & Seminole Counties wasting time? Do you need to see what Al Gorebasm did to the veteran’s absentee ballots wasting time?

I thought no President would send U.S. troops into war on a pretext. Okay a point for you.

I thought no high official of an administration would seek to punish a CIA official by causing her undercover identity (and those of others dealing with her) to be published.

You must be discussing Richard Armitage who’s very own words Puddy has supplied her about 15 times. Do you need to see the URLs where Richard said this?

I thought no administration would willfully obstruct aid to a major U.S. city suffering from a national disaster in order to depopulate it for electoral advantage (I’m referencing the glacial approval of reconstruction funding, not the immediate aftermath of Katrina, which is another subject).

Man now this is stupid. This was tried late in November and Puddy swatted this away like a Herr Goebbels Dumb Bunny smelly pellet. Not only did Kathleen Blanco prohibit supplies into NO because she wanted it evacuated out, she also stopped the Red Cross from deliveries too Need to see the original URLs for the 9th time? And now we learned in November the Army Corps of Engineers were held responsible for the levee.

Stanwood Richardson Duval, Jr. U.S. District Court judge in the Eastern District of Louisiana, appointed by Free Willy Jeff Clinton in 1994 said the Army Corps of Engineers’ failure to properly maintain a navigation channel led to massive flooding in Hurricane Katrina.

Butt butt butt the HA Libtardo Weasel Class blamed it on GWBush cuz he hated black peeps. The HA Libtardo Weasel Class blamed it on GWBush cuz he wanted to break up the N’awlins Dummocraptic voting block. The HA Libtardo Weasel Class blamed it on GWBush cuz he wanted to punish the Big Easy for all the sin there.

I thought no administration would be so cynical and pathological to use terror alerts to influence major elections.
Puddy saw how Tom Ridge was used by Jason Osgood butt, as always, Jason forgets Tom recanted.

56. Roger Rabbit spews:

@27 I do fine for a rabbit. You’re awfully stupid for a human.

57. Roger Rabbit spews:

@29 Geez, you’re as slow as puddyshitferbrains. Maybe slower.

58. Jason Osgood spews:

puddy @ 55

If Tom was the only kid saying the child emperor had no clothes, his recantation might be meaningful.

But no. Tom recanting was like Harry Whittington apologizing for catching Cheney’s bullet with his face. Tom got scared and he back pedaled.

You know, Puddy, I worry about you. You have to work overtime to defend and argue your false worldview. To say nothing of juggling all those contradictory items. Lying, especially to yourself, is stressful. It must leave you exhausted.

The truth is easier.

Occam’s Razor and all that.

I’m just saying.

The happy part is that your self-deception is a self-correcting problem. I’m actually kind of eager to see how your personal journey plays out. Will you snap awake? Will you burn out? Will you hit bottom, go thru all 5 stages of bereavement, and slowly claw your way back towards rediscovering your lost humanity?

Should be good.

Please.

Continue.

59. Roger Rabbit spews:

@31 Bush didn’t need to raise it himself. He had underlings willing to do it for him.

“In 2009, Ridge alleged in his book ‘The Test of Our Times: America Under Siege … and How We Can Be Safe Again’ that top aides to President Bush (including defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld and attorney general John Ashcroft) pressured him to raise the alert level on the eve of the November 2004 presidential election. Ridge refused. ‘After that episode, I knew I had to follow through with my plans to leave the federal government for the private sector,’ he said.”

(Quoted from Wikipedia; but if you don’t trust Wikipedia, then look it up in Ridge’s book!)

60. Roger Rabbit spews:

@35 The pre-WW2 Republicans were isolationists, too, and look where that got them.

61. Roger Rabbit spews:

@38 I agree that comment is a bit of an exaggration. The Israelis haven’t started gassing Palestinians yet.

62. Roger Sez spews:

@56 I do fine for a rabbit

Good idea: set the bar low!

The Bunny CHALLENGE:

Find your way to either the first or last page using the menu at the bottom:

« Previous Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page »

The Bunny SOLUTION (in his own words):

“Backward-click 4 times to get to the beginning, then forward-click 5 times to read the last page.”

63. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

Whatever you say Jason.

64. Broadway Joe spews:

All the more reason to use alternate forms of transportation. Or if you must fly, drive up to Vancouver and fly (somewhat) friendlier skies.

65. Jason Osgood spews:

Puddy @ 55

Al Gore chose to recount only four Democrat counties instead all 67.

Gore got more votes than Bush. In Florida.

Gore got more votes, despite the intimidation, caging, butterfly ballot, misprinted punch cards, the hanging chads, the voting machines.

Gore got more votes. But, according to you, he lost fair and square because of a flawed legal strategy during the recount.

Yea. You got me there. Team Bush had the winning strategy. Use violence to prevent the recount, then have the supremes install a junta.

Seriously, Puddy. I worry about you.

Where does the sun rise? East or west?

You deny objective reality and tie yourself up in knots to rationalize the most absurd reasoning.

Your self-delusion will eat you up from the inside and seriously harm you. Faster than cigarettes. Faster than alcohol. Faster than playing in traffic.

This should be good.

Please.

Continue.

66. SJ, Troll Patrol spews:

Jason

Sorry for the confusion. I usually post as SJ.

So what confuses you?

Are you having trouble with the idea that supporting Hamas is supporting war rather than promoting peace?

Netanyahu is the result of the impasse, not its cause.

Israel has never been offered an option that cuild lead to peace .. unless peace means the end of Israel.

What is needed is a peace movement that insists on peace from both sides. Supporting Hamas while Hamas is launching rockets into Israel is supporting war.

Could the USA simply dump Israel? That is effectively what we have done to Tibet until today and Kurdistan until Bush II. We have taken similar non action in other places because of our strategic interests … ask any Eritrean how well we supported Democracy there.

So yeh, my fellow American, lets screw the Israelis. Let Hitler, Arafat, Khameini, have their way, Just like we did for so long in Eastern Europe and are doing today in Tibet,

67. BryanK spews:

You know…. I am a perfectly upstanding citizen and occasional business traveler who would never cause a ruckus on a plane. Nope, I wouldn’t.

That being said, there is a little voice speaking to me inside that is just begging me to ask politely to get up to go to the rest room, and when permission is denied, peeing right there on the seat, just to make a point.

Yeah, not practical. But what would they do? Arrest me for not being able to hold it?

68. ArtFart spews:

@46/37 I’ll certainly grant that if the shoe were on the other foot and we were bankrolling the Palestinians instead, they’d be kicking the shit out of the Israelis.

The real problem is that there are two groups of people who don’t get along crammed into a land area that’s marginal at best in terms of supporting that population, and dividing it up makes it even worse. Then give one faction sufficient advantage and let them force the others into a gerrymandered wasteland, and what you end up with is something that’s about as bad as South Africa’s apartheid…and equally unsustainable.

69. Mr. Cynical spews:

Rep. King is absolutely right!

AP

The top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee says Nigerian accused of Christmas Day terror attack attempt should not be given rights afforded civilian defendants.

WASHINGTON — The leading Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee says the Nigerian man accused of attacking an airliner as it approached Detroit should be tried by a military tribunal rather than a civilian court.

Rep. Peter King of New York said Tuesday it will be more difficult for authorities to get useful information from the suspect if he is given the legal rights afforded to defendants in civilian courts, including the right to a lawyer.

How this is handled by the Democrat-controlled White House & Congress will be potentially a huge campaign issue in 2010.
If the Democrats decide to give this attempted mass murderer civilian rights and we have another incident…Americans will NEVER forgive the Democrat Party.

70. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

Jason Osgood,

While you scream and shout over Florida, Puddy asks you why did Al Gorebasm lose his home state of Tennessee. He was the favorite son, who was VP. He got nuked by his own state. If he won Tennessee, game over.

Now back to Florida. His strategy of attacking absentee ballots, military ballots and only recounting four counties was his fault. The law says the Electoral College vote is Dec 12th. He chose to only recount four counties and the other 63 cried fowl. Get it?

Now let’s see

butterfly ballot, misprinted punch cards, the hanging chads, the voting machines

Golly those happened in Dummocraptic strongholds of Hillsborough, Broward, Palm Beach, and Miami-Dade. Yep Miami Herald had this headline “With flawless ballots, Gore wins by 23,000 votes”. Butt, why can’t Dummocraptics in Dummocraptic controlled counties vote correctly? They controlled the local political machine.

Al Gorebasm blew it. David Boies blew it. His whole legal team blew it. And you want Puddy to cry you a river over Al Gorebasm’s decision making processes? NOPE you DOPE!

Al was more interested in denying soldiers overseas their suffrage rights. Now that’s typical Dummocraptic. Screw the Pentagon. Screw the people in uniform. Screw their suffrage rights.

71. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

Cynical,

Just because you are on a watch list to this administration doesn’t mean you are a “threat“. Hence try him in a civilian court. He only burned his testicles! He “suffered” enough.

72. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

Cynical,

Sometimes you need to visit other locations to learn info…

The military police have already said Abdulmutallab did not go through passport control at Schiphol when he arrived from Lagos.

73. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

I’ll certainly grant that if the shoe were on the other foot and we were bankrolling the Palestinians instead, they’d be kicking the shit out of the Israelis.The real problem is that there are two groups of people who don’t get along crammed into a land area that’s marginal at best in terms of supporting that population, and dividing it up makes it even worse.

Here’s where FartyArt loses his very foolish and moronic mind. This fool forgets factsThis fool forgets how Arafat lined his pockets with money originally destined as AID. All this information is available to FartyArt, but his decrepit mind is very similar to Herr Goebbels Dumb Bunny!

FartyArt, there are four links for you educational purposes.

74. SJ spews:

Artfart

(cross posted to SJ)

We mostly agree on thge two sides of the situation in Palestine/Israel.

I think, however, that the analogy to South Africa fails … Jimmy Carter has recently apologized for making that error in his recent book.

In South Africa, Apartheid was based on race. No African, no matter what his culture, could become “white.” There is no issue of racial identity in Israel.

In South Africa, the white majority wanted to confine the kafirs to a unsustainable bantustans. Zionists have always wanted a Semitic brotherhood based ion equlaity of Arabs and Jews.

Moreover “Palestine” as a nation is analogous to White SA. There were no (arab) Palestinians prior to 1948. The term “Palestinian” meant Jew. The Arabs rejected the creation of a Palestinian state, occupied what we now called Palestine and annexed to Jordan and Egypt. The idea of an Arab Palestinian state originated with two Egyptians … Nasser and Arafat … as part of a war of attrition between ALL the Arabs and Israel.

History is .. the past. Arguing today about whether the Zionists of 1880 were right or whether the arabs of 48 were right is probably futile.

What Jimmy Carter, and you, have made very clear is that ALL of us need to see and try to end the suffering of the Palestinians.

My problem with “progressives” is that they foster more war by demonizing Israel … just as the evangelicals foster war by demonizing the Palestinians. I have yet to meet a self proclaimed progressive who is a member of Peace Now, the movement to create two peaceful states.

I believe peace will come. I see only one way that can happen. The Palestinians must reject Hamas and openly seek peace. To do this they also need to take over their own government. This can happen either under a dictator with broad support and good intentions or under a democracy.

The formula must give the Palestinians a viable state. YOU AND I AGREE THAT THE 67 BORDERS WILL NOT DO THAT. Palestine, however, is surrounded (on three sides) by affluent neighbors with more than enough land and resources to make a viable state. A viable state, moreover, nbeed not depend on its borders for its economy ..Israel certainly would not be viable without trade with Europe and the US! A viable economy including Jordan and the Northern Sinai is EASY to imagine … once we all agree that WAR-WAR is hard on Palestinian kids.

So, yeh, it is not hard to imagine an economic solutions to the mess in Palestine. An economic entity including Jordan and the Sinai has GREAT promise. This will NOT happen as long as the unholy coalition of progressives and irridentist Muslims insist on their view of justice.

75. SJ spews:

@73 Puddy’

yes BUT your fundie friends are doing nothing for peace when they demionize Hamas.

Here is a challenge …

are YOU a member of Peace Now? Are ANY fundamentalists who claim to love us Jews willing to work with us to make peace?

Or is the friendliness toward Israel onlky toward our far right belivers in eternal war and Armageddon?

76. Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

SJ,

Demonize Hamas? Their own actions Demonize themselves. Remember our conversation long ago about Puddy working in the Middle East? What did Puddy tell you about those Arab conversations Puddy had? What did Puddy tell you about those Israeli conversations Puddy had?

Nope not a Peace Now member. How can you make peace with a group who still vows to kill all Israelis and their sponsors have a whackjob at their head?

Puddy believes Armageddon will occur because Apostle John wrote about it in his Patmos meetings with Jesus. Remember someday all heads will bow and knees will bend and HA Libtardo atheists will say “Jesus Christ is Lord!”

77. ArtFart spews:

@74 There’s another angle, which isn’t talked about much…and that would be the integration of the two societies. Of course, neither Hamas nor the Israeli hardliners want that, because they’d have to give up their fun and games and find something ordinary to do with the rest of their days.

78. Jason Osgood spews:

Puddy @ 70

Just so you and I are clear: In your worldview, getting the most votes doesn’t mean you won the election.

You are against democracy.

Now I’m curious:

What America are you fighting for?

Certainly nothing I’d recognize.

I’m pretty sure that if you asked any group of Americans “Who wins the election? The person who gets the most votes? Or the criminals who used every measure imaginable, including violence, to steal the election?” all but the “dead enders” would agree with me, not you.

What a wonderful, demented world you inhabit.

Please.

Continue.

79. Jason Osgood spews:

SJ @ 66

So what confuses you?

You confuse me.

Are you having trouble with the idea that supporting Hamas is supporting war rather than promoting peace?

See. Right there. I have NO IDEA what you’re talking about.

When you confuse things, mixing them all up, you’re really not advancing your agenda/cause. Whatever it is.

I’d be okay with that, were it not that your randomness results in a lot of rhetorical friendly fire. And that’s not helpful.

80. Jason Osgood spews:

SJ @ 74

The end game is already determined. By demographics, meaning birthrate. Your rhetoric is moot.

The only scenario that had any chance of success was the Carter/Clinton/Gore policy of sitting on all the belligerents until they made nice. That window of opportunity is long gone. (Thanks Bush!)

Doesn’t matter who’s right. Or who did what to whom. By having more children, the Palestinians will win.

The hard right Israelis are trying to prevent that demographic defeat by using extreme measures. It could work.

But it’s unlikely. The more likely scenario is that Israel is preventing any kind of accommodation, so that when the Palestinians do dominate, they’ll seek total victory.

US aide to Israel, Egypt, etc. is only delaying the inevitable, and driving up the stakes.

As for US interests and what we should do, I couldn’t even venture a guess.

My impulse is to eliminate our dependency on fossil fuels, thereby eliminating our geopolitical interest (vulnerability) in the Middle East (and every where else). We remove ourselves from the situation and let the locals figure everything out for themselves. It won’t be pretty. But then no scenario is pretty.

81. Politically Incorrect spews:

Roger Rabbit said:

“@35 The pre-WW2 Republicans were isolationists, too, and look where that got them.”

I’m not a Republican, rodent. I’m not a Democrat either. I propose we turn into military isolationists rather than get involved in every shootin’ match on the planet. What good has it done us, over the past 50 years, to try to police the world? we’ve pissed away the treasury and got a lot of people killed and maimed for no good reason.

82. sj spews:

Jason:

The end game is already determined. By demographics, meaning birthrate. Your rhetoric is moot.

And what do you suppose is the average size of a cheredi family?

The hard right Israelis are trying to prevent that demographic defeat by using extreme measures. It could work.

WTF are you blowing? Israels is doing nothing that does nto encourage Palestinians to make babies.

But it’s unlikely. The more likely scenario is that Israel is preventing any kind of accommodation, so that when the Palestinians do dominate, they’ll seek total victory.

What accomadations do you think can be made?

My impulse is to eliminate our dependency on fossil fuels, thereby eliminating our geopolitical interest (vulnerability) in the Middle East (and every where else).

When God lets you reconfigure the rules of ohysics this will be q great idea!

We remove ourselves from the situation and let the locals figure everything out for themselves. It won’t be pretty. But then no scenario is pretty.

Yep. History of such let the fester to grow is pretty good …

83. Jason Osgood spews:

And what do you suppose is the average size of a cheredi family?

I’m having a hard time believing that you’re a scientist. What you did just there is called a logical fallacy.

Try googling “palestian vs israeli birthrate”.