Drinking Liberally with Ed Murray

State Rep. Ed Murray will be the featured guest at Drinking Liberally, which meets tonight (and every Tuesday), 8PM at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue E.

Rep. Murray is the chair of the House Transportation Committee, and I’ve got a few questions (and suggestions) for him regarding the fight against I-912. He’s scheduled to arrive around 8:30 PM, but others will be gathering as early as 5:30 to watch the MLB All Star Game. I’ll probably show up around 8, but the place is likely to be crowded, so you may want to arrive earlier to grab a chair.

Comments

  1. 1

    christmasghost spews:

    goldy …you wouldn’t be advertising for him or his cause now would you? remember what the judge told john carlson……..

  2. 2

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Please ask Ed if he really feels his threat to run an initiative to keep all of KingCo’s GasTax money is:
    a) Likely to pass and WHO will sponsor it.
    b) Is it fair when the Growth Management severely hamstrings rural County’s from developing a tax base sufficient to care for their state roads.

    I believe if Ed will sponsor repealing GMA at the same time $$ remain in each County’s road coffers, that might pass. Otherwise, it is Seattle once again at it’s arrogant worst saying…”Pay for your own damn roads….with a boat anchor around your neck!”

    I’m sure Ed will try to squirm his way out of this by saying GMA and taxbase are unrelated. BULLSHIT!! Seattle/KingCo has a huge headstart over all 38 other County’s due in part to the oppressive GMA. Let’s level the playing field and allow competition.

    Oh, and also ask Ed who he is going to FIRE for the $60 million boondoggle in Pt. Angeles with the Hood Canal Graving Yard???? A huge part of the lack of citizen trust with transportation is the lack of accountability for dollars squandered and the failure to invoke consequences for major FUCK-UPS. Where does the buck stop Ed??? Hell Ed, you are the Chair of the damn House Transportation Committee…..do YOU take any personal responsibility??? I didn’t think so!! So who is responsible Ed?? You’ve had plenty of time to point the blame. Oh, and why so secretive about what will happen to that ill-fated property???? I saw that Jim Buck FINALLY is pushing for Public Information to be made Public. How novel!!!

    Ed, you wonder why there is no trust??????? Wake-up!

    PS–Enjoy your beer.

  3. 3

    prr spews:

    Also,

    Ask him if he is going to buy his own drinks or will he be lobbying DC to split the cost of his tab.

  4. 4

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    prr-
    Ed’s more likely to want the folks in Eastern Washington to pay for his drinks! “It’s only .000001% increase in your property tax assessment….a fraction of a penny every 5 years”, says Ed for the 10 millionth time!!

    Them fractions and tiny increases add up when you string together a few million of them Ed!!!

  5. 5

    John spews:

    @ 2

    People here accuse you of working for the BIAW. That may or may not be true but..

    You sure do support their agenda.

    Repealing the GMA means saying a big yes to sprawl and sprawl as has been practiced here in the US is the most destructive misallocation of resources in human history.

    Real estate development is fast becoming the only industry left here in the USA and for the most part it means building hordes of houses on farmland and enticing people to drive longer distances to their jobs which in turn means burning up even more oil and putting this country at further economic risk.

    We send what 170 billion dollars a year overseas and climbing to hostile countries for our oil addiction and the BIAW doesn’t care a hoot about that. Just get rid of the GMA and it’s open season on all that land. Build, build, build so long as there’s land and cheap credit to be had.

    I certainly sympathize with rural counties and their economic problems but taking off the leash on sprawl is a poor solution to that.

    And unregulated real estate development and the easy credit that fuels it is an asset bubble, ponzi-scheme economic disaster in the making.

    For me, controlling sprawl isn’t just an environmental issue, it’s a matter of good economics and national security.

  6. 6

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 5

    Mr. Cynical favors unregulated urban sprawl because it means fatter profits for his builder buddies. It’s not hard to figure out the mindset of anti-government Republicans like Cynical — it all boils down to Money-Money-Money no matter how much damage they do, and if they can pass the costs to others as externalities that’s even better for the bottom line. If Cynical could sell houses in Antarctica, he would run off the penguins without a second thought.

  7. 7

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Which reminds me of the Penguin Joke.

    A truck driver was dispatched to take a load of penguins to the zoo. Normally this was a 20-minute trip from the terminal but the driver, who left at 8 AM, didn’t return until noon and when he did the penguins were still in the truck.

    The foreman demanded to know what was going on. “I thought I told you to take these penguins to the zoo?!”

    “I did,” replied the driver with aplomb, “and they had a great time! After lunch, I’m taking them to the beach!”

  8. 9

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    John–
    I’m a retired CPA. Anytime anyone takes a position on an issue consistent with BIAW, they are somehow morphed into a BIAW operative or employee. Boogie-man.

    Actually John, I agree that reasonable zoning and planning is ESSENTIAL for quality of life AND makes for better quality of life.

    You obviously missed my point primarily because you are a dense mother-fucker so let me spell it out for you.

    I-T I-S U-N-F-A-I-R T-O P-U-T U-N-E-Q-U-A-L T-A-X-B-A-S-E R-E-S-T-R-I-C-T-I-O-N-S O-N S-O-M-E S-M-A-L-L C-O-U-N-T-I-E-S A-N-D E-X-P-E-C-T T-H-E-M T-O P-A-Y A-T T-H-E S-A-M-E R-A-T-E A-S T-H-O-S-E L-E-S-S R-E-S-T-R-I-C-T-E-D!!!

    If you want County’s you do not live in to be Green and Open, shouldn’t you expect to pay from that??

  9. 10

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    I put double spaces between each word but ….it didn’t come out that way so for ease of reading let me pick this up following the line that reads “You obviously missed my point primarily because you are a dense mother-fucker so let me spell it out for you”:

    “It is unfair to put unequal tax base restrictions on some small counties and them to pay at the same rate as those less restricted”.

    You see that John?? It’s right there!! Look carefully John. There ya go John…that’s it. YUP! Right there. YUP, right after “…you are a dense mother-fucker so let me spell it out for you”.

  10. 11

    John spews:

    @ 9

    So does that mean throwing out the baby with the bathwater, i.e. repealing the GMA?

    I’m all for fairness but I’m pretty suspicious of anyone who wants to repeal something that could result in this state making the same kind of disastrous mistakes other places have made.

  11. 13

    pbj spews:

    John –

    “For me, controlling sprawl isn’t just an environmental issue, it’s a matter of good economics and national security.”

    What an idiotic statement. What has sprawl got to do with national security?

  12. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Wow. Mr. Cynical is clever enough to talk a good game. But then he pulls the old right-wing switcheroo and reverts to anti-government ranting.

    Anybody who buys property in rural King County zoned for 5-acre minimum lot sizes has NO RIGHT to subdivide that property into a bunch of small building lots so he can reap a financial windfall, got that Cynical?

    The state didn’t pass GMA to annoy people or deprive them of development windfalls, it passed GMA to keep greedy short sighted bastards who care only about money from doing things that are harmful to the community.

    Cynical, you try to sound reasonable about land regulation and zoning, but your categorical opposition to GMA gives the lie to your charade. You have never once posted anything pointing out how GMA could be improved or needs to be corrected, you’re simply against GMA period. GMA happens to be a critical piece of legislation in Washington’s efforts to protect its environment and prevent the destructive and costly sprawl that has blighted out states — but you want to throw out the whole thing. Your position makes you anti-government, anti-environment, anti-sprawl prevention. Spare us your phony pretense at reasonableness, we all know what you are — you are for unmitigated greed. Shame on you, and double shame on you for lying about it.

  13. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 13

    American dependence on foreign oil supplied by governments that sponsor terrorism, you stupid fucker.

  14. 16

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    John @ 5

    “For me, controlling sprawl isn’t just an environmental issue, it’s a matter of good economics and national security. ”

    Seems like sprawl would be better for security, a less concentrated area to attack for the terrorists or foreign invaders. I’d be interested in hearing you elaborate on this statement.

  15. 19

    windie spews:

    @17

    you should talk, prr, you post over a far wider time period than RR does.

    anything to attack someone, eh?

  16. 20

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    LATEST GOP CONSUMER SCREW JOB: GOP ENERGY BILL REPEALS PUBLIC UTILITY HOLDING COMPANY ACT

    The Public Utility Holding Company Act (PUHCA) was enacted in the 1930s are part of FDR’s New Deal reforms. PUHCA protects consumers by preventing concentration of control over the nation’s electric energy supplies, and under PUHCA, for decades America had cheap and reliable electricity supplies that helped foster strong economic growth. The partial repeal of PUHCA in the 1990s by a Republican-dominated Congress contributed to the Enron scandal. Now the Republican Congress wants to kill off PUHCA entirely and has inserted a repealer in the GOP energy bill (the same energy bill that allows gasoline refiners to poison drinking water supplies with legal immunity).

    Hang onto to your wallet.

    For the complete story see http://www.workingforchange.co.....emid=19337

  17. 21

    John spews:

    pbj, CF

    Right now we send 170 billion dollars per year and climbing to countries that are borderline if not openly hostile to us to pay for imported oil. A lot of that money ends up supporting terrorism and hostile religious sects like Wahabism.

    If we encourage walkable, more livable communities and mass-transit that means greater energy efficiency and less imported oil. If we produce fuels like biodiesel here at home that’s better for our economy (jobs) and our national security.

    There are smarter ways of preventing terrorism than invading countries and shooting at anyone who looks cross-eyed at you.

  18. 22

    ConservativeFirst spews:

    “Right now we send 170 billion dollars per year and climbing to countries that are borderline if not openly hostile to us to pay for imported oil.”

    We can agree on this. Wouldn’t you also agree that a democratic Iraq that is our ally is better than buying oil from Saddam?

    “There are smarter ways of preventing terrorism than invading countries and shooting at anyone who looks cross-eyed at you.”

    I’d say this is a pretty simplistic world view. We invaded Afgahnistan, where they had terrorist training camps. How much oil do we get from there exactly? What would have been a smarter way to prevent the training of terrorists in Afganistan?

    “If we produce fuels like biodiesel here at home that’s better for our economy (jobs) and our national security.”

    While this seems like a fantastic concept, in reality we use oil for a lot more than fuel. Like that plastic keyboard you are typing on. Do you really think we could produce enough biodiesel to replace the oil we import? Your arguments for biodiesel are the same ones made for opening ANWAR, which would have a much more immediate impact on the economy and national security, yet I’d suspect you oppose doing that.

  19. 23

    John spews:

    @ 22

    A democratic Iraq? Sure at what cost? A democracy in Iraq is no good if we bankrupt ourselves and breed more terrorists in the process.

    We now have bases in Afghanistan that are located pretty much on the same route as that unocal pipeline. I generally prefer exhausting every other possible avenue first before invading a country like I don’t know telling the locals to shut down the camps or else. But I realize the invasion of Afghanistan was a popular thing and in most eyes an appropriate response to the atrocity of 9/11.

    If you use no oil for jumping in your car to pick up a gallon of milk then you have more oil for everything else and yes I do believe we can produce enough biodiesel for plug-in hybrids (see link in the next paragraph). Another alternative is cars running on Zinc Metal-Air batteries.

    Yes I oppose ANWR because there are better alternatives like this one. We won’t get any oil out of ANWR for 10 years anyway and it won’t be all that much.

  20. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Comment on 22

    “We can agree on this. Wouldn’t you also agree that a democratic Iraq that is our ally is better than buying oil from Saddam?”

    Nice thought, but this conservative pipedream will never happen. Iraq was carved out of desert sands by European colonizers to further their own selfish interests, who threw together several warring tribes without concern for future self-government, as they never intended these peoples to govern themselves. After the Europeans left, it took a strongman like Saddam to hold Iraq together. There is no question that Saddam was an evil, murderous dictator. But after his ouster, Iraq was wide open not only for an infusion of terrorists but for factional strife and a power struggle. The only thing Iraqis agree on is they all want to throw the foreign invaders out of Iraq.

    The Bush administration’s pipedream of a democratic Iraq aligned with America and pumping oil like crazy is not, and never was, realistic. As long as U.S. troops remain in Iraq, insurgents will continue to blow up pipelines and very little oil will leave that country. America is losing the war against Iraqi insurgents for the same reasons Russia got its clock cleaned in Afghanistan — you can’t overwhelm urban guerrillas fighting on their own turf and supported by a sympathetic population with military hardware and firepower because the enemy is too diffuse and elusive to be hunted down, cornered, engaged, and destroyed. And no matter how many insurgents you kill, there are always more eager to join the fight against the foreign invader.

    After America leaves Iraq, as it will, factional strife will prevail until one group emerges as the strongest and imposes its will on the country. The ensuing government is hardly likely to be a democracy, in a culture that has no democratic tradition and no understanding of democracy. Most likely it will be a Shiite faction representing the dominant religious group that will impose an Iran-style theocratic state. The priority of Iraq’s ultimate government will be religious orthodoxy, not exporting oil to thirsty western economies. Iraq’s future Shiite dictators will care far more about worshipping Allah than acquiring the material things that oil money can buy — and when they finally do sell oil on the world market, they very likely will spend the profits on armaments and a military buildup to consolidate their own power and deter future foreign invasions.

    All of this was foreseeable and predictable. It could have been planned for, and the ill effects (including American casualties and a lost war) were avoidable. But never, ever annoy the Bushies with facts. Facts are the last thing they want to hear. Bushies live in a fantasy world, and in the case of Iraq, the grabbed a tiger by the tail and now they have to ride the tiger.

  21. 25

    pbj spews:

    Reply to 15

    American dependence on foreign oil supplied by governments that sponsor terrorism, you stupid fucker.

    You mean like Canada? What an idiot.

  22. 26

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    HEYYYYYYYYYY!

    Let’s get back to Ed Murray.
    John—
    GMA is voted down by the voters of Washington State.
    Then rammed thru the Legislature by the LEFTIST PINHEADS….they pretended they made these huge changes from what the voters rejected. In reality, it was the same results…if not worse.

    If you want GMA, then don’t threaten citizens who live outside high density Seattle with having to pay for being forced to not have a viable economy.

    Alas John….GMA will essentially be gutted when voters pass a copy of Oregon’s I-37 in 2006. Frankly, based on Poll numbers, I’m shocked this wasn’t run YEARS ago. KingCo and it’s abusive CAO was the last straw. When the LEFTIST PINHEADS go too far in trying to regulate individual lifestyle choices, eventually the majority rises up and repeals the bullshit. Then the perhaps well-meaning environmentalists like John can watch in horror as mega-sprawl takes over Washington State permanently scarring John’s little Utopia. It only takes one time for folks to get fed up with over-reaching so-called “smart-growth” and their dreams are fucked forever. And it’s their own fault for a disregard of individual property rights….except their own of course. Have you ever noticed how many of these LEFTIST PINHEADS want to force smart-growth on others as they live on double and triple lots defying the density they claim is “desirable”. They want everyone else to honor smart-growth except themselves. The Hollywood type who hog blocks of property in highly urban areas and claim to be “environmentalists”. Yeah, right.
    John….you shouldn’t be trying to convince me or any average folks about the value of GMA and smart growth. You ought to be looking for ways to improve GMA….like getting rid of the GOVERNESS APPOINTED GROWTH MANAGEMENT HEARINGS BOARD. There is a real joke RR. Look at who is on that Board. Whacko’s making whacko decisions. These Boards should be elected and accountable to the voters. There is one major change to make.

  23. 27

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 25

    Flippant and disingenuous, pbj. Or maybe you’re just a fucking liar.

    Sure, the U.S. imports a lot of oil from Canada, but it imports even more from the Persian Gulf — the bulk of which comes from Saudi Arabia. Remember the Saudis? The guys who hijacked 4 airliners on 9/11 and flew 3 of them into buildings? Nah, you don’t remember.

    I think I’ll do something here that wingnut loudmouths like pbj positively hate — I’ll post FACTS. Namely, facts about where U.S. oil imports come from.

    First of all, the U.S. consumes roughly 22 million barrels a day (7 billion barrels a year) of oil, about 60% of which is imported. These figures come from the U.S. Department of Energy, and are for 2003, the most recent I found.

    Canada – 2,068,000 bpd
    Saudi Arabia – 1,772,000 bpd
    Mexico – 1,639,000 bpd
    Venezuela – 1,385,000 bpd
    Nigeria – 873,000 bpd

    Total Imports – 12,254,000 bpd
    OPEC – 5,175,000 bpd
    Non-OPEC – 7,079,000 bpd
    Note: 2,484,000 bpd comes from the Persian Gulf

    For the complete chart see http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/aer/txt/ptb0504.html

  24. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Righty Pinhead @ 26

    Nobody’s trying to convince YOU of anything, Cynical. A brick is more intelligent than you. Our function here is to refute your bullshit so you don’t mislead the gullible. Washington isn’t Oregon, and Washington’s land use issues (and laws) are very different from Oregon’s. Every time I drive through eastern Washington I see signs that say “I can’t farm my land because of GMA” or “I can’t keep horses on my property because of GMA” or “I can’t put a mobile home on my property because of GMA” — yeah right. People in eastern Washington can pretty much do any fucking thing they want to on their land. They can farm it, log it, raise cattle or horses on it, put mobile homes on it, store junk cars on it, shoot trespassers — and nobody will say anything. Last time I visited Republic, that town didn’t look like it needed urban planning or controls on sprawl. Ask somebody in Republic what the Growth Management Act is and they’ll reply, “Huh? What are you talking about?” Get off your high horse, Cynical. GMA was enacted by a majority of the Legislature, and the Legislature was elected by majorities of the voters in their respective districts. You keep pretending our elected legislators are against the people, if that’s so, how did they get elected? You’re illogical, man, if not downright irrational. Urban planning and growth management is a necessity in the Puget Sound area to prevent destructive and costly sprawl. As far as I can tell, you’ve never contributed anything constructive to our state or to the discussions on this board, you’re nothing but a dogmatic anti-government right wing hack.

  25. 29

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Roger Rabbit@28
    “Our function here is to refute your bullshit so you don’t mislead the gullible.”

    Have you gone completely mad RR??!!!!
    My God man, there are only 8 different human beings that view this Blog AND ALL OF US HAVE ALREADY MADE UP OUR MINDS ON VIRTUALLY EVERY ISSUE!!

    You must be insane, have no life or more likely it’s BOTH to believe for even one second that this Blog is going to change ANYONE’S opinion on anything.

    Perhaps your bitterness about being a Guv’mint hack attorney and your low self-esteem combined with old age has made you search for some meaning to your useless fucking life. And you’ve found it here……….on the HORSESASS BLOG?????

    I do this for yucks and to have fun. I certainly don’t do this to attempt to convince you LEFTIST PINHEADS of anything. I have never been under even the slightest delusion that there are multitudes of “undecides” hanging on our each and every word, thoughtfully pondering each each until VOILA…..I agree with some DumbAss who has gone by 87 different identities and now calls himself Roger Rabbit!!!

    COO-COO
    COO-COO
    COO-COO for COCO Puffs!

    Hey, COCO Puffs look a lot like Rabbit turds.
    You are clinically insane Roger.

    Roger believes when he watches television that there are real people in that damn box!!

  26. 30

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Reply to 29

    No, I get like this when I haven’t been laid for a couple days. Currently, all the cute fluffy female bunnies of my acquaintance are knocked up, so I’m unloading my hormones on you.

  27. 34

    spews:

    25

    I dont want to depend on Canada for oil. The only think I want to depend on Canada for is a model on how not to run a country. It is also a heaven for you donks. With all these progressive countries you democrats fawn over why dont you move there instead of destroying this one. You would be a lot happier in the long run.

  28. 35

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    So, did you LEFTIST PINHEADS ask Ed Murray to respond to my questions of him….and comment on some of my fellow cynics comments???
    I didn’t think so.
    You were all too busy acting cool being around one of your ilk to actually ask him the tough questions.

    LEFTIST PINHEADS==experts at group masterbation

  29. 37

    HRH spews:

    29
    “My God man, there are only 8 different human beings that view this Blog AND ALL OF US HAVE ALREADY MADE UP OUR MINDS ON VIRTUALLY EVERY ISSUE!!”

    Okay, so you and your schizophrenic friend make 4. Who are the other 4 people?

  30. 38

    Donnageddon spews:

    29
    “My God man, there are only 8 different human beings that view this Blog AND ALL OF US HAVE ALREADY MADE UP OUR MINDS ON VIRTUALLY EVERY ISSUE!!”

    I am still undecided on whether a mushroom burger needs swiss cheese or not.

    I am open minded to opinions.

    Not your’s Mr. Cyn-Irr, so shut the fuck up.

  31. 41

    John spews:

    Just back in from DL. It was a huge honor to meet Goldy, dj, Geocracker, N in Seattle, Nick (the DL organizer) and everyone else commenters and lurkers alike. Thank you all for the excellent conversation.

    The conversation with Representative Ed Murray (just a smart, wonderful person) started with his account of the fate of the anti-discrimination bill which lost by only 1 vote in the State Senate. We then sequed into a bit of discussion about transportation and I-912. It was a revelation to me to hear what a titanic struggle it can be get some legislation passed and how all the various groups in our society (churches, business organizations, the tribes, etc.) come to bear on either passage or defeat.

    It was really fun. I learned a lot and was really impressed with Ed Murray. The folks in the 43rd district are blessed to have him as their Representative.

    I’m hooked. I’ll see you all next Tuesday.

  32. 42

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    DonnaGeddon@38–
    You idiot….you always want to have Swiss Cheese on your mushroom burger!!

    dj–
    If Ed Murray’s response to the issue of the WSDOT pissing away $60 million on the Hood Canal Bridge Graving Yard site in Pt. Angeles with no one being fired or held accountable is WTF……well, Mr. Murray doesn’t get it, does he. But Ed will because I-912 will pass overwhelmingly….and there will be plenty of other Initiatives that will hopeful contribute to “THE EDUCATION OF ED”.

    John–
    “It was an HONOR to meet Goldy et al”
    An HONOR??? You need to check yourself back into a hospital dude…try Western State. Don’t by surprised if the ask for cash in advance.

  33. 44

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Comment on 42

    I agree Swiss cheese is mandatory on mushroom burgers — probably the only thing I’ll ever agree with Mr. C-I on. As for the Hood Canal bridge — screw it!!! Shitcan it and let the rednecks on the peninsula row across Hood Canal! Keep King County gas tax money in King County! BTW C-I, how can you expect the state government to fire anybody for a measly $60 million highway screwup when we can’t get the national government to fire anyone for 9/11, screwing up a $300 billion war, or treason? Accountability is passe, man. Nobody is accountable for anything, anymore, now that neocon freaks are running the show.

  34. 45

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 42

    “If Ed Murray’s response to the issue of the WSDOT pissing away $60 million on the Hood Canal Bridge Graving Yard site in Pt. Angeles with no one being fired or held accountable is WTF……”

    That was his response to question 1(b). I didn’t ask about the Hood Canal project. As part of being well informed on the issue before discussing it, I am still waiting for the web site URL you mentioned that identified the graveyard prior to the start of construction. Until then, I’m afraid I must classify this issue as another one of your spleen venting exercises, unencombered by facts or a reality-based interpertation.

    You know, like the BIG SURPRISE at the election contest.

    BTW, Cynical, what was the BIG SURPRISE, anyway? I don’t recall you ever identifying what it was. (My guess: Handy’s emails about undermining the GOP case).

  35. 46

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    $60 million isn’t all that expensive for the discovery of an entire ancient village site, when you stop to think about it. Hell, the U.W. probably spends more than that on white rats every year.

  36. 48

    Goldy spews:

    Cynical @29,

    My God man, there are only 8 different human beings that view this Blog

    I hate to disappoint you and the other (u)SP sycophants, fervently waiting for HA to fold, but thousands of people view this blog on a regular basis, including a large percentage of the local press corps.

    My traffic continues to go up, even after the election trial, as (u)SP’s traffic continues to fall.

  37. 49

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy–
    Of the “thousands” you claim regularly view HorsesAss….how many do you speculate view it to help them make up their minds on various issues??? Pretty close to zero.

    How many view it for the entertainment value?? More than half…in a large part thanks to assholes like ME.

    How many view it to try and validate or justify their pre-determined positions on issues? Virtually all.

    How many are crazy enough like Roger Rabbit to actually think this Blog matters in court of public opinion?? If it’s more than one….that’s pretty scary!

    I appreciate you Goldy. Occassionally I even feel a small, very small glimmer of respect for you……but it goes away pretty fast (kinda like food poisoning)!

    Hell Rog Rabbit and I even agree about Swiss Cheese on mushroom burgers. You gotta start somewhere, right?

  38. 50

    John spews:

    @ 42

    Yes it was a great honor! I really admire Goldy for what he’s accomplished here and I’ll be forever grateful to him for the thankless job he’s done being Sharkansky’s bete noire.

    In the same vein of the “glimmer of respect” you have for Goldy, I also have that same glimmer for Sharkansky. It also goes away pretty fast. I know I have to check (u)SP once in a while to see what he has that unhinged band of loonies in a froth about. If it gets too bad we have to pay attention to it before it does too much damage.

    Biggest difference between HA and (u)SP? A Cynical-style critic couldn’t exist there! Free speech is very much free at HA.org!

  39. 51

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    John–
    I have repeatedly acknowledged Goldy for his willingness to encourage No Holds Barred word-wrasslin’.
    In case you missed it, I’ll do it again for your benefit John:
    “Goldy, I fucking salute you!”

    However you are dead wrong about Sharkansky not allowing critics. There have been and continue to be. Stefan has a long fuse of tolerance before he bans someone. Obviously you aren’t reading SP very frequently or thoroughly. Try again. Stefan seems to draw the line on government workers blogging on government computers using government internet access from Government Offices in Government Buildings while on Government time. I guess Stefan feels pretty strongly that public servants on public time shouldn’t be using public assets to express PERSONAL opinions. A lot of folks here (including Mr. Rabbit) actually agree that Government workers shouldn’t be doing that. What do you think about that John???

  40. 52

    John spews:

    @ 51

    Oh I’ve seen critics there but if Shark doesn’t ban them then the chorus starts in about the “moonbat troll” even if the critic is just pointing out the obvious.

    A little thought experiment: let’s say I go there and comment as “Mr. Sanguine” and then insert “RIGHTIST PINHEAD” in everyone of my comments. How long would I last?

    Don’t have a heart attack (very bad on your pocketbook) but I agree with you in principle on Government workers – breaks and lunch only!

  41. 53

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    John—
    It’s ok for you to insert RIGHTIST PINHEAD wherever you wish because everyone with an IQ over 15 knows there is no such animal. Only LEFTISTS are PINHEADS!!

    So just because the SP folks call you a “moonbat troll” (which is exactly what you are by the way) you get scared and run away??? The only one of you LEFTIST PINHEADS who isn’t a complete pussy is Roger Rabbit! (DJ is a LEFTIST….but not a PINHEAD).

    I don’t blogging on government computers using government internet access is a good idea anytime….particularly to push political positions even on a Blog. I wonder if the folks who do that realize all their posts are public records and can be retrieved??? I would NEVER request such documentation but I don’t doubt there are some people who might. BE CAREFUL. BE RESPONSIBLE. PRACTICE SAFE BLOGGING!!! John, do you wear a condom while you Blog???

  42. 54

    John spews:

    @ 53

    I wouldn’t be so sure of that first assertion. Who blogged non-stop before the election contest decision about how awful and baseless the Democrat’s case was and then predicted that Bridges would set aside the election? And then who commented in synch with that blogger that “Goldstein is going to fall”?

    Just in the last week whose posts from whose blog gets the most attention?

    Roger is definitely up to the challenge of going over there and slugging it out – he’d last maybe twenty minutes before Shark would pull the plug but why bother? In my blogging youth I used to visit SharkBlog and I hold the high honor of being banned by the Sharkmeister myself. I commented a few times at (u)SP and the dispiriting atmosphere just didn’t agree with me – I’m just not masochistic enough.

    Besides anyone who has the courage of their convictions comes here anyway to mix it up.

    Look at Chuck – he still hangs out here – he’s still here listening to the orchestra play while waiting for the Titanic to sink.

  43. 55

    Mr. X spews:

    As a point of historical fact, I don’t think there ever was a public vote – pro or con – on Washington’s GMA. But, at the time it passed, it did so with strong public support (which, I will grant, has fallen a good deal in the suburbs, exurbs, and rural areas over time). However, not every rural property owner wants his/her neighbor to be able to massively develop their property. To the contrary, there are still a lot of rural property owners who want to preserve that sort of quality of life.

  44. 56

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Mr. X—
    Au Contraire—
    There was a vote on what became GMA and it was slaughtered. Then the Legislature dolled it up….actually made it more cumbersone and offense with a GM Hearings Board AND rammed it home. They suckered little County’s into it by offering several hundred thousand dollar grants to write their comp plans.
    Turns out those $200,000 grants ended up costing little county’s MILLIONS to STOP GROWTH….and climbing. It’s the gift that keeps on giving. Little County’s spend millions to stop their tax bases from growing. Only LEFTIST PINHEADS would find value in that. Only LEFTIST PINHEADS would con little County’s into it and allow no escape once they realized how onerous it was. Only LEFTIST PINHEADS trust local control so little they need Big Sister to tell them what is right and wrong in their own little communities.

    You stupid COCKSUCKERS!!!!!!!!
    This Gas Tax thing will start to level the playing field.

  45. 57

    Mr. X spews:

    Cynical,

    Wow, you’re right (for a change) – I found the blurb below online while attempting to chase down the date (I don’t even remember the vote, to be honest – I wasn’t as interested in land use stuff then).

    “Enacted at a time of rapid expansion, the GMA attempted to control sprawl by imposing strict limitations on development. While controversial at its inception – in 1990 the voters by a margin of nearly 3-1 rejected Initiative 547, upon which much of the GMA is based — it has become part of the state’s policy landscape. Few today call for its total repeal, although many question its effectiveness in achieving desired results.”

    Now can George W. Bush admit he was wrong too (and I mean about ANYTHING)? Too much to ask for, I suppose…

  46. 58

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 56

    “You stupid COCKSUCKERS!!!!!!!! This Gas Tax thing will start to level the playing field.”

    What! You are going to get back at the left for the GMA by defunding highway improvement for the most dangerous parts of our roadways?

    Maimed and dead drivers is the rightwing’s idea of “leveling the playing field?”

  47. 59

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    dj–
    There you go ahead with the Fear Factor approach.
    You cannot back up your claim that these are “the most “dangerous” parts of our roadways” and you certainly cannot back up that the scope of the work being proposed is necessary…particularly a tunnel instead of the Alaskan Way Viaduct.
    Some experts have already stated publicly that the AWV is good for at least another 15 years. And a “BIG DIG” is not only MUCHO extra costly….it is also a stoopid idea that will turn into the biggest boondoggle of all times. Although Paul Allen and a few other LEFTIST PINHEAD fatcats will get mighty, mighty rich.

    THE TRANSPORTATION BUDGET IS NOT FOR ASTHETICS!!! Get over it dj. If you want ASTHETICS, YOU pay for it. Get it the fuck out of the transportation budget.

    I agree that some work needs to be done. Highway 101 has some horribly dangerous stretches. DumbAss LYNN KESSLER didn’t notice that was taken out of the BUDGET in her own fucking district!!!

    Maimed & dead drivers. Typical LEFTIST PINHEAD fear-mongering tactics. Kind of like wanting more money for hugely bloated bureaucratic School systems is always “FOR THE CHILDREN”.

    After comments like these dj, you are officially back on the LEFTIST PINHEAD list. I’m giving you a time-out dude to re-think your behavior and comments.

    Earn your way off the list dj. You can start by acknowledging that “asthetics” like a tunnel to replace the AWV should be Seattle’s issue to fund over and above a reasonable cost of a fix to the current AWV.

  48. 60

    Donnageddon spews:

    I have decided. Since both Roger Rabbit and Mr Cyn-Irr agree that swiss cheese is a must for mushroom burgers, I will order mine sans cheese.

    Who needs cheese interferring with the goodness of mushrooms and meat?

    Thanks for helping me settle that issue.

  49. 61

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Donnageddon you ignorant slut!!
    As a LEFTIST PINHEAD, you are probably putting those goofy mushrooms on your burger to give you a buzz high enough so you don’t have to come to grips with the fact that the Alaskan Way Viaduct could fall on your fucking head any second (according dj aka Chicken LittleDick)

  50. 62

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 59

    “There you go ahead with the Fear Factor approach. You cannot back up your claim that these are “the most “dangerous” parts of our roadways” and you certainly cannot back up that the scope of the work being proposed is necessary…particularly a tunnel instead of the Alaskan Way Viaduct.”

    Aaawwww, Shit, Cynical. Don’t tell me YOU haven’t read the legislation, either? You mean you have not seen the priorities built into the act? Sheeeit, Mr. C., what the hell are you doing spewing bullshit when you don’t know how the law requires projects to be prioritized!?!!?!??

    “Some experts have already stated publicly that the AWV is good for at least another 15 years.”

    Whatever. . . the AWV isn’t mentioned in the legislation!

    “And a “BIG DIG” is not only MUCHO extra costly….it is also a stoopid idea that will turn into the biggest boondoggle of all times. Although Paul Allen and a few other LEFTIST PINHEAD fatcats will get mighty, mighty rich.”

    Whatever. . . there is no mention anywhere in the Tax legislation about BIG DIGS, Seattle Waterfront, Paul Allen, SR520, AWV or PINHEADS of any persuasion!

    “THE TRANSPORTATION BUDGET IS NOT FOR ASTHETICS!!! Get over it dj. If you want ASTHETICS, YOU pay for it. Get it the fuck out of the transportation budget.”

    Of the priorities given in the tax legislation, asthetics are not in there. Asthetics are not even mentioned. Not once! Shit, Cynical, you be listening to too much RIGHTIST PIN-CUSHON TALK RADIO, man!

    “I agree that some work needs to be done. Highway 101 has some horribly dangerous stretches. DumbAss LYNN KESSLER didn’t notice that was taken out of the BUDGET in her own fucking district!!!”

    If that dangerous stretch doesn’t make the list then it means we have some other massively fucked up dangerous sections, doesn’t it. Here is an idea, lets keep the gas tax so we can get all of the dangerous sections of roadways upgraded!

    “Maimed & dead drivers. Typical LEFTIST PINHEAD fear-mongering tactics. Kind of like wanting more money for hugely bloated bureaucratic School systems is always “FOR THE CHILDREN”.”

    Wait a minute, I though you just mentioned that there were dangerous sections of highways that need to be fixed. But, if you read the fucking legislation you would know that accident record and fatality record are the TOP TWO CRITERION FOR SELECTING PROJECTS.

    “After comments like these dj, you are officially back on the LEFTIST PINHEAD list. I’m giving you a time-out dude to re-think your behavior and comments.”

    After posting bullshit without actually having read the legislation, you go back on the FUCKING IDIOT RANTING WINGNUT list. Sorry, Cynical, I usually have more respect for you than that. . . .

    “Earn your way off the list dj. You can start by acknowledging that “asthetics” like a tunnel to replace the AWV should be Seattle’s issue to fund over and above a reasonable cost of a fix to the current AWV.”

    No problem. . . aesthetics isn’t what the gas tax should fund. If Seattle decides to do the BIG DIG, they will have to scare up the excess money elsewhere. No arguments from me on that. Of course, our statement is completely consistent with the legislation.

    For crying out loud. . . RTFL.

  51. 63

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    dj–
    You seem to imply that if something isn’t spelled out clearly and succinctly in black-and-white in the FUCKING LEGISLATION that somehow it isn’t a consequence??

    The FIX is on dj. The trust factor is…..well, ZERO.

    However I am glad to hear you say Seattle can pay for the BIG DIG. The LEFTIST PINHEAD freeloaders will be mighty sad to hear that though….especially the Developers who were counting on it.

  52. 64

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 63

    “You seem to imply that if something isn’t spelled out clearly and succinctly in black-and-white in the FUCKING LEGISLATION that somehow it isn’t a consequence??”

    Actually what I strongly believe is that there is wide-spread misunderstanding of the legislation. It isn’t about any specific project. Rather, some portion of it funds such projects and sets quantitative criteria on how the projects are prioritized.

    “The FIX is on dj. The trust factor is…..well, ZERO.”

    Right, well the is an unbelievable amount of misinformation about the tax, about the accountability program within WSDOT, and about the actual record.

    Your rant about a web site supposedly pointing out the Hood Canal grave yard is one such example. What is the URL? Your obsession with cost overrun on one project that ran into extrordinary difficulties is another example. So WSDOT lost the battle. Are they winning the war, Cynical? What about their overall record?

    “However I am glad to hear you say Seattle can pay for the BIG DIG. The LEFTIST PINHEAD freeloaders will be mighty sad to hear that though….especially the Developers who were counting on it.”

    The last I heard, there is no possibility of “the big dig.” But, the politicians can, and will, talk and dream away. Any plan, whatsoever, for the AWV will require multiple sources of funding. And those other sources are not in place right now.

  53. 65

    dj spews:

    Mr Cynical @ 59

    Check out the projects funded by the new gas tax at
    http://www.washingtondefense.o.....jects.html

    There are a bunch of improvements to US 101 in numerous counties. I sincerely hope the dangerous section of 101 you mentioned is included.

    Of course, those safety improvements will be scrapped if the gas tax is repealed. But, what the hell, life is cheap. . . .