Join us at the Seattle chapter of Drinking Liberally for an evening of politics under the influence. We start at 8:00 pm at the Montlake Ale House, 2307 24th Avenue E., although some of us show up early for dinner.
Tonight’s activities? We’ll be filling out stacks of ballots we got from submitting the names of cartoon characters to ACORN. Then we’ll think about new ways to enact middle class tax cuts socialism in Washington state. We’ll cap-off the evening by having our pictures taken with a terrorist. It’ll be fun! Hope you can make it.
If you find yourself in the Tri-Cities area this evening, check out McCranium for the local Drinking Liberally. Otherwise, check out the Drinking Liberally web site for dates and times of a chapter near you.
Steve asked
Steve, I posted recently. I was first to bring up what Joe Biden said about Obama’s lack of experience and how an international crisis would be in the first six months of an Obama presidency and Madeline Half-Bright also agreed. Looks like people are finally recognizing truth about Obama.
Robber Rabbid hab a code in hid nothe and wont attend tonide thow he dothint infeck anywon elth. (sniffel, coff)
@1 The truth about Obama is he’ll keep his wits in a crisis a lot better than your impulsive, easily provoked, quick to anger, temperamental, touchy, thin-skinned, tantrum-throwing candidate.
I stuck a carrot up his ass and it turned red so he’s definitely got a fever.
I’m bery lucky to hab a spowth who takth care ob me win I’m thik.
He he he! Feel better soon RR.
So thatexplains liberal thought. You’re all drunk or high. I wondered how a rational person could espouse such patently absurd and immoral political ideology. I wondered how you don’t see through that Obama character to the opportunistic and ambitious empty suit that he is. Do you folks ever sober up? If so, how’s the morning after the kind of lunacies you regularly spout in public?
It isn’t armed robbery, it’s ‘redistribution of wealth’ or ‘spreading the wealth’. It isn’t crippling inexperience insufficiently made up for by a massive ego and a handy turn of speech. It’s ‘refreshingly untainted by Washington.’ It’s not destroying an economy by taking the incentive to produce from the productive. It is ‘asking them to pay their fair share’. What a masterpiece of irony. Did you folks study at the George Orwell school of doublespeak? Anyway, I’d like to to set the record straight. Their fair share would be a note from the government to say thanks for not consuming welfare and other expensive, ineffective and unconstitutional government services.) It isn’t fair questioning of the terrorists, rascists and general lunatics a person associates with or marries, it is rascism.
Wow, if my brain were that ruined by the illegal drugs and excessive alchohol I can only hope is the reason for your collective stupidity I wouldn’t want to be sober either! The hangover from that must be mind-blowing assuming you had minds.
@7 Yeah, the liberal thought around here is that after you guys gave yourselves a couple trillion dollars worth of tax cuts it’s the working class’ turn to get tax relief.
@7 (continued) Speaking of redistributing wealth, I read in a book that taxpayers spent an average of $2 million on reclamation projects for each farm and ranch west of the Mississippi River so all those Republican farmers and ranchers can enjoy a lifestyle of rugged individualism and self-sufficiency. Oh, and by the way, those farms and ranches produce less than 10% of the U.S. food supply, so this isn’t about feeding consumers, it’s pretty much straight welfare.
@1: Wishful republican thinking without any facts:
the truth:
Yup – this is a poll by the “liberal” media – the Wall Street Journal. So much for white prejudice and democratic prejudice – the latest polls show about 90% of democrats will vote for Obama – much higher than the 80% for McCain.
Influential republicans are jumping ship – Chris Buckley, Colin Powell, Hitchens, Adelson and others…leaving Puddy alone with the right wing racists of the republican party. Hope you and Palin have a good time – hear Russia is beautiful this time of year – if you can see it from alaska.
Oh, and if you travel with Palin you can go for free on the governemnt dole (I know it is agisnt the rules – but Palin doesn’t mind) and not pay taxes – like Palin and Joe the plumber. Glad they put country first. Say hi to Ted Stevens while you are up there – and the rest of the corrupt and unpatriotic alskans in the AIP.
@7: Dear moron
Please explain (if you are not drunk) how wonderful the free market is and how the banking crisis can be cured by less regulation and more free market ideas?
You guys are totally bankrupt in ideas and the rest of the world has seen what a disgrace our banking industry (and stock market) are. Lack of regulation (touted for 30 years by republicans) got us into this mess and we should do more of it?
sorry, the American people are no that stupid.
Good idea, Rabbit. Well, a good idea if they actually paid taxes, which they don’t. The working classes consume more government resources than they pay for, if they pay taxes at all in our progressive rate system.
Something like 60% or more of the taxes collected in this country are paid by 5% of the population. These are the people who produce jobs directly, and through their purchases and investments. Those new employees also pay taxes. That same 5% of taxpayers pay for the government services that the poor receive. This is what pudding headed liberals call ‘fair.’
I know the hackneyed argument one of you will raise. A wealthy citizen could not have become wealthy except upon the aching backs of the exploited poor. Bullshit. If our laws and economic system made it possible for one citizen to attain to wealth the poor have no excuse. After all, they live within the same system. They have the same opportunities and only laziness, lack of desire or lack of ability make them poor. Blame their therapist or God or whatever. Don’t blame the wealthy.
Our Constitution does allow taxation under the 16th Amendment. We collectively assume the financial responsibility for collective benefits. Think about roads, courts, and other common benefits in that context.
It does not and never has allowed for the taking of one man’s property to give to the exclusive benefit of another.
No liberal ever had a logical argument to defend the theft they espouse. That’s because there isn’t one. All you can do is shout abuse and look disgusted at the horrible selfish conservative who actually understands the Constitution.
@1″ It is amazing how consitently wrong you are:
the real news says:
this is from the “liberal” wall street jouranl poll. ooops!
Looks like prominent republicans are abandoning ship – Chris Buckley, Colin Powell, Chritopher Hitchens, Adleman…and on and on. Palin is now dragging down the ticket and the latest on her using tax payers money illegally to ferry her kids and pay for expensive NY hotels undercuts her entire argument. she is corrupt and incompetent – like the rest of the republicans.
@11: You mean conservatives actually look at the constitution – maybe you should look at the damage your president did to the fourth amendment on illegal search and seizure (with his illegal wiretaps, suspension of habeus corpus, Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib).
I guess you are in favor of the rich not paying their fair share of taxes. The graduated income tax is used by almost every civilized society in the world – guess you don’t like that. You can call it socialism – but you would be lying. Socialism is what Paulson just did by having the governemnt buy up banks. Of course capitalism would have led to a great depression….
@1 I missed your post. I’m glad you’re OK. Really.
Same republican crap – the rich pay soooo much. Except they don’t. they have more money so they pay more in taxes. they would pay more if they had the same rate as the poor. the poor actually pay a greater percentage of taxes – especially if you include the payroll tax – that the rich don’t have to pay over 150K.
Yup – the rich pay a lot less percentage wise than they are supposed to – becaue they use tax shelters. then they ship our jobs overseas for cheaper labor. Yup – they have really helped the economy.
One basic question:
The economy stinks. why should we vote for the people (republicans) who brought us the terrible economy, record budget deficits and rampant corruption?
@15 If this Lost guy is so bitter now, just imagine how whack he’ll be by the middle of Obama’s second term.
@11 “These are the people who produce jobs directly, and through their purchases and investments.”
Wrong. Investments don’t create jobs. Business owners don’t create a single job. Customers create jobs. Without customers there are no sales, and without sales there are no jobs. If the working and middle classes don’t have money, they can’t be customers, and if they don’t spend, those who own the factories, distributors, and stores won’t earn a penny on their investments or assets.
By the way, your statistics are full of shit because they omit the 7.65% FICA taxes that all workers pay, but which investors, landlords, and heirs don’t pay.
And yes, we’re all in this together, so it’s only fair that those who have more should pay more. If you want an everyone-for-himself society, then live in a cave like your ancestors did 2 million years ago.
11, 13 – I don’t need or want socialism. I’ll settle for a tax system that’s fair. Conservatives bitch about the 39% corporate income tax rate but fail to mention that 2/3rds of U.S. corporations pay no corporate income taxes at all. They bitch about marginal income tax rates but don’t mention that rich people get most of their income from capital gains, dividends, and tax-sheltered investments (e.g., municipal bonds) that are taxed at much lower rates than wages or not at all. The people who screech about “class warfare” against the rich somehow end up with big houses, yachts, fancy vacations, and country club memberships. And we’re supposed to feel sorry for them? How do you justify the fact that the owners of assets and capital get more of our GDP than all of America’s wage earners put together? I’m so tired of the sanctimonious crap from your ilk that if someone comes along and taxes the shit out of you whiny assholes I’ll cheer him on! How you like them apples? I’ll tell you what. One of the biggest items of federal spending is defense, and one of the biggest items of state and local spending is law enforcement, courts, and jails. If you want lower taxes let’s eliminate all that stuff and everyone can defend his own property. People who don’t own anything will have no worries. People who own a lot will be on their own. You like that plan? Then go for it!
Why should I vote for people who cut wages, send jobs overseas, and expose us to inflation by running up deficits to give themselves tax cuts? I’d be crazy to do that to myself! The only reason Republicans have been in power is because a lot of people have done that to themselves, but many of them are now having second thoughts. I predict Obama wins by a landslide and Democrats get a filibuster-proof Senate. Average Americans have had enough of GOP bullshit.
@16 He’s right about one thing — he and his fellow wingnuts are gonna be lost in a sea of blue in 2 short weeks. From sea to shining sea, all they’re gonna see is blue, blue, blue. The GOP is done.
Wow, so much disinformation from people who can’t earn enough and want to steal someone elses..
Obama’s rant about jobs being sent overseas by Republicans has never been substantiated. Jobs will go overseas so long as it makes economic sense to the corporations creating the jobs. That’s true if you have a Republican or a Democrat in office. That is to say when we stop hating corporations and punishing them for doing something productive they might stay here. When our production costs are greater than the production, shipping, marketing and profit for foreign manufacture we will lose jobs overseas. If we’re being honest we’d say that our future depends on building or selling what the lesser developed countries can’t. Competing with cheap Chinese or African labor is a zero sum game.
The Social Security collected based on the FICA tax never goes to the wealthy. If you make enough you get no Social Security. Should the poor pay for their own retirement? You betcha.
The fair share of the wealthy is the exact same percentage as anyone else. “We’re all in this together” right? So why should some of us have to pay for the others who are too lazy stupid or incompetent to pay their own way.
As for investments, inheritances, dividends and the like they have already been taxed. You buy these things with money derived from your income. You pay taxes on your income. Follow me closely here, that means you have paid taxes already. Get it?
The comment about defense and police is just stupid. I already mentioned that as a common duty of all of us if we are to gain the common benefit. I object only to having my money stolen and given to feed another man’s family. That is what is unconstitutional, the deriving of individual good from common taxation.
Investments, creation of business and the like do create jobs. How many items in your home were unheard of 5 or 10 years ago that are indispensible now? Who invented those items and for what reason? Someone did it to sell and make money on the thing. If you take the incentive away you take the inventiveness away as well. Customers don’t create jobs any more than carts pull horses.
Do I like what George Bush has done to the 4th Amendment, or the 1st come to that? Not one bit. Guantanomo is a national disgrace and I’m glad a court is finally stepping into that mess. No threat that isn’t existential, like WW1 or WW2, should be a good reason for changing one comma of our Constitution. Any change that those threats provoke should be eliminated once the threat is gone, as Abraham Lincoln did at the end of the Civil War. I will be glad when George Bush is no longer our president.
Will I be glad when Obama is? Not bloody likely. Bush gave Obama ammunition for violations of our rights and that bastard will take full advantage of it. Fairness doctrine to violate free speech anyone? How about sedition laws to punish criticism of the annointed one, the messiah. Or is it der fuhrer? You are a bunch of cultists who don’t even know it worshipping an empty suit. Good bloody luck.
I’d say God bless America, but God help America is more like it.
I have to hand it to this new troll, lostinaseaofblue, he or she can actually string a few sentences together coherently, even if divorced from reality. C’mon, we’ve been wanting some new trolls here who at least have some familiarity with the rules of English grammar. So, let’s give a welcoming hand to a literate, even if nuts, troll.
@22 He’s guilty of at least one falsehood, ergo, “If you make enough you get no Social Security.” Even Bill Gates is eligible for Social Security.
As the ex-officio HA greeter, it’s my responsibility to welcome our new troll, and explain the ad hoc HA posting rules, to wit:
1. This is a liberal blog.
2. Anyone can post here except JCH.
3. There is no censorship.
4. As liberals, our mission is to verbally kick the living shit out of fascist traitors.
5. No mercy for wingnuts!
6. Our terms are unconditional surrender; there will be trials.
7. klake is a nazi.
Any questions?
@21 “I object only to having my money stolen and given to feed another man’s family. That is what is unconstitutional, the deriving of individual good from common taxation.”
Let’s skip over the fact that corporate welfare is 5 times as much aid to the poor, and proceed to the question of how much of your taxes “feed another man’s family.” The answer is that public welfare mainly benefits children, who can’t choose their parents, and never exceeded 3% of the federal budget. So, if we leave poor kids to fend for themselves, that still leaves you on the hook for 97% of the taxes you pay.
As a lawyer with 35 years of experience and former judge, I decline to accept your opinion of what is or isn’t constitutional, in part because your opinion is in error but there are other reasons as well. Let’s just say that your personal impressions of constitutionality aren’t worth dogshit and let it go at that. If you want to get technical about this, there are court decisions upholding the constitutionality of welfare programs.
So what, exactly, is the purpose of welfare programs? A blind, narrow-minded, foolish man might conclude they are merely for the individual benefit of the recipient, and not see any societal purpose being served by taking care of the weakest and most vulnerable members of society. For example, if the government feeds the hungry, they won’t be driven by the desperation of hunger to steal food from private parties (and maybe commit violence in the process). Providing medical care to a poor child may serve to preserve a life that later makes valuable contributions to society. And so on. If you’re so stupid that you need this explained to you, it’s probably useless to explain it anyway, so I won’t go into further detail. Suffice to say that when society aids individuals, society benefits from it.
But the main problem with your short-sighted and tunnel-visioned ideology is that society is a common enterprise and individuals can’t survive let alone prosper without society.
Without society, you could not own any property beyond what you could carry on your own person and defend from all comers.
Without society, there would be no law, no protection beyond what you could provide for yourself, no enterprise, no nothing. Without society, you would still be a wild ape living in trees and foraging for bones to crack open so you can eat the marrow that the lions and hyenas didn’t get. In short, you are indebted to society and the efforts of other human beings not only for your possessions and the privilege of living in a civilization but your very life. Some of us think it’s not asking too much to expect you to contribute your fair share back to society. And the way that works in a democracy is you don’t get to pick and choose which taxes you pay, anymore than you get to pick and choose which laws to obey. You play by society’s rules or pay the consequences. We’re sorry if you don’t like the rules we make when we’re the majority, but that’s life in the big city dude.
Somebody buying for Goldy and YLB? They have no real jobs and need it. Rodent-you there between your pills, against Doc’s orders and your O.C.D.? Thought he wasn’t. (Doc says no) Will you have a Ditzy, I mean Marcy Darcy and Queen Crissy defeat party there soon? (Perhaps they can exchange stupid t-shirts) I know I will make the trip to see those twats and their red faces…(and Goldy’s limp dick)…. :)
25 – Yawn… Put me to sleep. …
This new troll reminds me of the Pooper, coming here fully fortified with years of right wing bullshit and then sadly limping away hardly ever to be seen again under a relentless assault of bare-knuckled, uncompromising reality.
2004 was the best year for most wingnuts. Their champion, the monkey in the White House, squeaked out a marginal victory which they took as a total rebuke for those daring to reject the malgovernance of the preceding 4 years.
But for wingnuts in this State, the victory was bittersweet. Christine Gregoire refused to kowtow to the arrogant real estate salesman Rossi and kept faith with those who voted for her by legally taking the Governor’s mansion.
It was start of a long, long nightmare for the wingnuts: loss of the election contest trial, defeat at the polls of their revenge plot, I-912, the rejection of the female-abuser, David Irons, Jr, the stunning defeat of Mike! Whathisname, the continued dominance of the state legislature by the Democrats, the exposure at all levels of government of the utter corruption and incompetence of Republicans:
http://www.republicanoffenders.com/
All signs point in a positive direction. The long national nightmare may soon be over.
@ 21
Wow, so much disinformation from people who can’t earn enough and want to steal someone elses
Talk about disinformation. This guy’s concept of incentive is completely incapable of explaining why someone like Bill Gates continued to work long after he’d made enough money to retire several times over (or, for that matter, explain why folks like Steve Ballmer and Steve Jobs continue to work despite having reaped similar financial rewards).
He also, clearly, doesn’t understand the concept of “effective demand failure.” Entrepreneurs simply create jobs out of thin air–even when there is no effective demand for their goods or services.
Where do these neanderthals come from–these dark-ages creatures who don’t even know that there is such a thing as macro economics, let alone know how to intelligently discuss the differences between macro economics and micro economics?
In the simplistic world of these neanderthals, people are only ever poor because of some inherent qualities (or lack thereof). In this simplistic world, hard-working people never have their life savings, or even their very lives, snuffed out because some insurance company decided that their illness was a “prior condition”.
These are the same neanderthals who will claim that Smoot-Hawley caused the Great Depression. Smoot-Hawley! At that time, imports were 4.2% of GNP and exports were 5% of GNP. Yet, this tax and the subsequent retaliation by foreign governments is supposed to have caused a near 30% drop in GDP. Proponents of this position would likely have difficulty passing the math portion of the WASL.
The following might give pause to people who have been paying attention over the past several years:
That was written about the Great Depression, and augurs for precisely the middle-class tax relief that Sen. Obama proposes.
No, our newest troll isn’t lost in a sea. Our newest troll is lost at sea, clinging tenaciously to a literally bankrupt ideology. Will he continue to cling to that ideology, and thereby sink with it and drown? Or, will he relinquish that ideology and swim to the shores of reality?
One wonders.
The source for the block quote @ 28 is here.