Don’t Apologize to the Imaginary Klansmen

Ken Schram is upset about McGinn’s apology for his police using pepper spray on peaceful protesters. Not for the police using pepper spray, but for the apology.

What is it that we expect of police?

To protect people and property throughout the community. Professionalism. Integrity. They don’t always meet those standards, of course. No group of people will 100% of the time. So I assume this will be a post about how we better handle that? Awesome! We rarely have the chance to discuss that at that level.

I ask that rhetorical question in light of Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn apologizing for cops who pepper-sprayed Occupy Seattle protestors last Tuesday because there were some who refused to obey their legitimate orders.

Really you think, “What is it that we expect of police?” is a rhetorical question? It’s not foundational? It’s not the basis for how media folks like Ken Schram ought to deal with the police?* Anyway, if you’re wondering what we can reasonably expect from Seattle police, well good news, there’s an SPD Manual (large .pdf). We can judge them against that, for starters.

So let’s play this out.

Would Mayor Mike have issued a mea-culpa if it had been a Ku Klux Klan demonstration and some elderly racist had taken a face full of pepper spray for ignoring police orders?

I would hope so. Everybody has a right to protest. And even despicable people don’t deserve to be pepper sprayed. It’s impossible to know, except presumably YOU COULD HAVE ASKED HIM. What with you being a TV and radio personality, and all.

I don’t think so.

You’re on TV, for Christ sake, you don’t really have to just guess. Call him up and throw the hypothetical at him. That’s what we expect of our news people.

Also, are there lots of demonstrations that McGinn disagrees with that are getting pepper sprayed? If so how about write about them? If not, then it sort of disproves your point, doesn’t it?** Finally, your analogy doesn’t hold up since the Klan have never, to my knowledge, made a commitment to nonviolence, as Occupy Seattle have. So, really, awesome metaphor all around.

What’s obvious here is that police need to be given a list of protesters that we absolutely won’t tolerate breaking the law, and a list of protesters that we give a wink and a nod to when they do something illegal because we agree with what they’re demonstrating against.

Or how about a specific set of standing orders. Like in the Manual linked to above that says (OC Spray is what’s commonly referred to as Pepper Spray, bold mine):

Personnel assigned OC spray, Patrol C.A.R.T or TASER less lethal force options are authorized to use these agents or devices during Unusual Occurrences (UOs), consistent with Department policy, unless otherwise directed by a Supervisor or the Incident Commander. Officers should weigh the capabilities and limitations of these force options in a crowd control setting. Less lethal force, specifically OC spray (Oleoresin Capsicum) or other riot control agents, shall not ordinarily be used to overcome passive resistance by nonviolent and/or peaceful protesters, absent additional compelling factors, or unless previously approved by the Incident Commander.

So it’s true that anyone, regardless of ideology, shouldn’t get pepper sprayed by the cops when they’re acting nonviolently. That seems like the logical thing.

If Mayor Mike would just inform police which illegal actions deserve his dispensation then SPD could save their pepper-spray for those whose protests genuinely offend his sensibilities and political points of view.

Nobody is saying don’t do anything. They’re saying don’t pepper spray people when it goes against procedures, and when you do, it’s right to apologize. People were willing to get arrested, and the police should have complied, but this is beyond that.

Also, Ken Schram often complains that the government is too big, wasteful, and out of control. Take for instance his most recent commentary that there must be waste out there somewhere in Washington State. Really, how someone like that says if you don’t obey police orders, you should be pepper sprayed is beyond me.

If Mayor Mike wants selective law enforcement, the least that should be expected of him is to do the selecting.

You still haven’t proved that he wants selective enforcement; you’ve only had a pointless hypothetical where you compared nonviolent protesters to people who engage in lynching. If McGinn supported selective enforcement, I think there would be camping at Westlake, the food tent wouldn’t have been removed, the city wouldn’t have ticketed people who honked in support, and the police wouldn’t have cleared the nonviolent protests at various places at all, pepper spray or no. Here, to cite one example, McGinn makes the point that he isn’t going to make specific exceptions for Occupy Seattle. “But when it comes to free speech, government does not get to do that. We are not allowed to favor one type of speech over another. That is anathema to the Constitution.”

With that, we’ll all be clear on exactly what we expect of police.

We should expect professionalism from them at all times. We give them a gun, we give them TASERS, we give them pepper spray, and we expect them to use it in a manner consistent with the rules. It doesn’t look like the officer who used pepper spray on peaceful protesters did that, but there will be an investigation. I support the due process rights of the officers who used pepper spray, and if there were orders, to use pepper spray, etc. I’d like to know that.

* Ken, if you don’t mind me using your first name, those were rhetorical questions.

** Also rhetorical questions.

Comments

  1. 2

    MikeBoyScout spews:

    Excellent as usual Carl.

    Ken, how’s it feel to be called out for laziness and stupidity?

  2. 3

    Michael spews:

    Great post.

    And yeah, when you’re cops go against their own training and policies and people get hurt an apology is in order.

    Hope the lawsuits wont ding the city coffers for too much.

  3. 4

    Pete spews:

    Funny how Schram’s glibertarianism disappears when it involves the state kicking some DFH ass.

    But seriously, Ken being a fiscally responsible guy and all, he should understand this: that pepper spray incident will result in a lawsuit against the city, probably multiple ones, and they will cost Seattle taxpayers a lot of money, just as similar incidents have led repeatedly to payouts in other cities over the years. If McGinn’s apology mollifies the victims of SPD’s violation of its own field manual enough that they don’t go for the legal jugular – or, better still, don’t sue at all – it’s well worth offending Ken Schram’s tender feelings.

  4. 5

    Michael spews:

    @4

    Ken being a fiscally responsible guy and all, he should understand this: that pepper spray incident will result in a lawsuit against the city, probably multiple ones, and they will cost Seattle taxpayers a lot of money

    Exactly! Seattle’s police riot at the WTO cost the city plenty.

    I think Kenny-boy needs more fiber in his diet.

  5. 7

    spews:

    That was a lot of research just to arrive at the already known fact that many cops are authoritarian assholes. But someone has to do it. Ken Schram certainly couldn’t have been bothered with it — but then again he’s an authoritarian asshole too.

  6. 8

    Michael spews:

    @7
    I wonder what Schram was like at 22? Does he write these tirades wondering what happened to that free loveing hippie that he used to be?

  7. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Wait-a-minute, I thought America is the land of the FREE?? When did we become a police state where citizens are expected to obey “orders” and cops dictate what is a “legitimate” order? Doesn’t our Constitution give us the right to peacefully assemble and freely speak our minds and petition our government with grievances? I like Ken Schram, but he sometimes has his head up his ass, and this is one of those times.

  8. 10

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @1 For once you’re right, puttbutt — it seems Seattle’s rightwing cops only pepper spray peaceful demonstrators if they’re left of Mussolini.

  9. 11

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Let’s review: Tea Partiers and their apologists (e.g. pussybutt) will spend gobs of money to kill foreigners in their own villages but insist it’s Fiscally Irresponsible, Unconstitutional, and the Work Of The Devil to spend a dime helping our own citizens.

  10. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Guns Don’t Kill People Dep’t

    Nope, they don’t; guns are inert and unthinking objects that can’t hurt anyone until an insanely jealous ex-wife who happens to have a couple of handguns shoots her ex and a bunch of kids.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45.....nd_courts/

    But hey! Despite almost-daily incidents like this one, Wisconsin’s Republican legislators think anyone should be able to buy a handgun without a background check and carry it anywhere without a permit, including into courthouses, kindergartens, and schools.

  11. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    You Can’t Trust A Republican Dep’t

    Now that deficit reduction talks have collapsed because Republicans insisted that Democrats agree to middle class tax increases and cuts in spending on middle class entitlements to fund a huge reduction in the millionaire tax rate, Republicans want to renege on the automatic Pentagon spending cuts they agreed to back in August.

    http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.c.....ck-up-plan

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: The GOP motto might as well read: “Trillions for war, but not one fucking cent for American workers!!” Well I say, screw ‘em, make the automatic spending cuts take effect and let Bush’s Tax Cuts For The Rich (TM) expire in March 2013!

  12. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    One of my favorite publications is The Economist, a U.K.-based business-friendly conservative weekly opinion magazine; not because they’re conservative, but because despite their conservatism they’re thoughtful, insightful, and have something that’s utterly lacking in the rightwing political movement: Common sense.

    Here, in this article, they talk about one of the Wing’s favorite recent memes: The young Occupy protestors, they allege, are unemployed because they made bad educational choices.

    http://www.economist.com/blogs.....employment

    This is complete, utter, rancid bullshit. And because it is deliberate and premeditated, it is prosecutable as well.

    The world doesn’t need incompetent puppeteers, but it does need excellent puppeteers. It also needs to transfer what we know about architectural history to future generations. What it doesn’t need is more investment bankers who produce nothing but get paid millions for developing an adeptness in the techniques of skimming off the top; which, of course, makes everything we buy as consumers more expensive than it needs to be.

    “It is remarkable to me how readily old, successful professionals dismiss the labour-market difficulties of young adults as the product of their poorly-chosen majors and general lack of ambition, and on what flimsy evidence they’re prepared to base these views. There are now 3.3m unemployed workers between the ages of 25 and 34. That’s more than twice the level in 2007. There are over 2m unemployed college graduates of all ages; nearly three times the level of 2007. There are many millions more that are underemployed—unwillingly working less than full-time or unwillingly working in a job outside their field which pays less than jobs in their field. As far as I know, the distribution of college majors didn’t swing dramatically from quantitative fields to art history over the past half decade.”

    Professionals. Now there’s a word. I’m a “professional” — a lawyer, to be precise — and under our nutty capitalist system I currently get paid $100,000 a year for doing no work and producing nothing of any value, i.e, I spend my time spewing progressive propaganda. There was a time when I worked my ass off, but even then, I produced nothing. Judges don’t make anything. All they do is tell people what they’re going to do even though they don’t want to do it. Which, it seems, is a necessary societal function — human nature being what it is, and all that.

    Actually, it’s not true that I’ve never produced anything. For one thing, I’m an inventor who was granted a U.S. Patent on an invention that formed the backbone of a business I started in law school that eventually sold over $1 million of product a year and employed about 30 people full-time. It wasn’t profitable, so I didn’t make anything for the 10 years of hard work I put into it (on top of my day job), but everybody else — suppliers, contractors, employees, etc. — got paid. That’s not where the 100k a year came from, though. Some of it comes from FREE MONEY that I get from flipping stocks. This makes no fucking sense to me, but what they hey, it’s our system so I might as well exploit it — why should Warren Buffett get all the FREE MONEY that capitalists are so eager to part with?

    Even though I think capitalism is a nutty system, I’m not suggesting we jettison it, because I can’t offer a better one. I was thinking about this the other day on my way home from the grocery store — if somebody didn’t make money every time I buy groceries, there wouldn’t be any groceries, and I’d have to go back to eating grass or raiding gardens. (It’s even worse for you humans; you’d all starve.)

    Let me close this comment this way: This would be a pretty damn piss-poor world if all we had was investment bankers, we had no puppeteers, and there was no generational transfer of institutional knowledge about the history of architecture.

  13. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Like my banker/M&A lawyer buddy, I’m a skimmer. You can do this, too! After all, America is the land of the free — no, not free speech, we don’t have that (see, e.g., Seattle cops pepper-spraying 84-year-old woman) — but this is the land of FREE MONEY!

    Here’s how you do it. Everybody’s really scared right now because they think the world is coming to an end, so they’re selling all their stocks, even though corporations are making money like they owned the printing press. (You didn’t know the reason you have no money is because corporations took it all? Well, that’s where it went.) Just wait a little while longer, until the professional investor class that runs mutual funds, pension funds, bank and insurance company investment pools, hedge funds, etc., get even more scared and liquidate even more stocks — then scoop them up DIRT CHEAP!! Then wait a little while longer, until they want to buy their stocks back from you at much higher prices.

    Trust me, this works. There’s trillions of dollars in cash sitting on the sidelines. That money isn’t being used to hire workers, pay dividends, or buy capital equipment. It’s just sitting there, and at today’s artifically low short-term interest rates (courtesy of the Federal Reserve), it’s earning less than nothing. I say “less than” nothing because interest rates are below the inflation rate, which means all those investors sitting on cash and waiting for something good to happen in the world are losing purchasing power. They know this, of course, and they’re eager to get back into investments that actually pay them for the use of their money, such as dividend paying blue-chip stocks. But for now, they’re too chicken to do it.

    Well I’m not! I’m gonna wait a little longer for things to really go to shit in Europe, and when the market really tanks, I’ll jump in and scoop up the dividend-paying blue-chip stocks the chicenshits are dumping because they think the world is ending or they have to meet margin calls.

    Why? Because I know what’s going to happen to all those trillions of dollars of cash sitting on the sidelines. It doesn’t take a fucking genius to figure this out; it’s a no-brainer. Only one thing can happen to it — someday it has to come back into the stock market because there’s nowhere else for it to go. When everyone is selling stocks, stock prices go down; when everyone is buying stocks, stock prices go up; so you buy when the lemmings are selling and you sell their stock back to them when the lemmings are buying en masse. Buy low, sell high.

    Any questions?

    This nutty system sure beats the fuck out of working for some Republican asshole who wants to pay you $5.25 an hour for the prerogative of harassing you 8 hours a day.

  14. 17

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Believe me, there’s no shortage of money or oil in the world; the planet is awash with both. As a scientist quoted in National Geographic said a few years ago, the world is going to run out of atmosphere before it runs out of fossile fuels. Likewise, the stock market is going to run out of shares before the world runs out of cash. No matter how much you don’t want to believe me — because you yourself don’t have much money — for your own good, you’ve got to take my word for this, there’s GOBS of cash out there. Trainloads, shiploads of it. Shit, the whole center of the planet is solid cash! There’s an incredible amount of unspent cash out there, and ALL of it eventually will flood back into stocks, real estate, and other tangible assets. That’ll happen when the people sitting on cash-stuffed matresses realize this isn’t Armageddon after all. (It never is; if any of humanity’s endless and innumerable crises had morphed into Armageddon, I wouldn’t be writing this, and you wouldn’t be reading it. Armageddon is one of those things that everyone keeps expecting but which never shows up. It won’t this time, either.) Robbing people is always a matter of being ahead of the curve — who ever succeeded at robbing someone, unless they were waiting around the bend before the robbee got there? Well, just get ahead of the curve and realize there’s an enormous amount of cash out there looking for a home, and maybe some of it will come to you. You know what they say, any damned fool can make money, but fools and their money are soon parted. Shit, why would anyone want a job and work for money under a system like ours?

  15. 18

    Richard Pope spews:

    You think Jesus will keep making enough oil to supply the planet’s needs until He comes again?

    Lots of folks actually believe He will …

  16. 21

    Doc Daneeka spews:

    “…there were some who refused to obey their legitimate orders.”

    Tee Veee “journalists” get to decide on the law now?

    What is the value of a Constitution that can be swept aside whenever a police officer claims to feel “threatened”?

  17. 22

    Puddybud spews:

    Let’s review: Tea Partiers and their apologists (e.g. pussybutt) will spend gobs of money to kill foreigners in their own villages but insist it’s Fiscally Irresponsible, Unconstitutional, and the Work Of The Devil to spend a dime helping our own citizens.

    Golly I thought ObamAA+ killed Osama Bin Laden? Golly I thought ObamAA+ killed friends of Awlaki?

    You mean George Bush and the Tea Party had something to do with it after all? Whodathunkit?

  18. 23

    Puddybud spews:

    Believe me, there’s no shortage of money or oil in the world; the planet is awash with both.

    Butt butt butt Dorky Dorkman (headless lucy’s latest name) said years ago on HA oil was a zero sum game! We’re running out of oil. So the 63 different names headless was wrong again Roger DOPEY Rabbit?

    Do tell!

  19. 24

    Puddybud spews:

    Roger DOPEY Rabbit: I realize facts a queer things to you, but here is the real evidence…

    The Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce delved into U.S. Census Bureau statistics to determine the employment rates of 173 college majors; I crossed them against a list of the most popular college majors.

    U see Puddy loves using federal statistics while morons like rujax will plant whole cut and paste articles from raw story… HAHAHAHA

    College majors with the highest unemployment

    * 1. Clinical psychology 19.5%
    * 2. Miscellaneous fine arts 16.2%
    * 3. United States history 15.1%
    * 4. Library science 15.0%
    * 5. (tie) Military technologies; educational psychology 10.9%
    * 6. Architecture 10.6%
    * 7. Industrial & organizational psychology 10.4%
    * 8. Miscellaneous psychology 10.3%
    * 9. Linguistics & comparative literature 10.2%
    * 10. (tie) Visual & performing arts; engineering & industrial management 9.2%
    * 11. Engineering & industrial management 9.2%
    * 12. Social psychology 8.8%
    * 13. International business 8.5%
    * 14. Humanities 8.4%
    * 15. General social sciences 8.2%
    * 16. Commercial art & graphic design 8.1%
    * 17. Studio art 8.0%
    * 18. Pre-law & legal studies 7.9%
    * 19. Materials engineering and materials science and composition & speech (tie) 7.7%
    * 20. Liberal arts 7.6%
    * 21. (tie) Fine arts and genetics 7.4%
    * 22. Film video & photography arts and cosmetology services & culinary arts (tie) 7.3%
    * 23. Philosophy & religious studies and neuroscience (tie) 7.2%
    * 24. Biochemical sciences 7.1%
    * 25. (tie) Journalism and sociology 7.0%

    They should have added blogging from your home 24×7 not looking for employment as it’s own category!

    Conversely:

    The 25 majors with the lowest unemployment.

    College majors with lowest unemployment rates

    * 1. Medical technology technician 1.4%
    * 2. Nursing 2.2%
    * 3. Treatment therapy professions 2.6%
    * 4. Medical assisting services 2.9%
    * 5. Agriculture production & management 3.0%
    * 6. Industrial production technologies 3.1%
    * 7. Pharmacy 3.2%
    * 8. Communications & disorders sciences 3.3%
    * 9. Elementary education 3.6%
    * 10. Special needs education 3.6%
    * 11. Miscellaneous education 3.7%
    * 12. Mechanical engineering 3.8%
    * 13. High school teacher 3.8%
    * 14. Theology & religious vocations 4.1%
    * 15. Management info systems & statistics 4.2%
    * 16. General education 4.2%
    * 17. Health & medical administrative services 4.3%
    * 18. Transportation science & technologies 4.4%
    * 19. Finance 4.5%
    * 20. Physics 4.5%
    * 21. PE/health education 4.5%
    * 22. Criminal justice and fire protection 4.7%
    * 23. PE/Park & Recreation 4.8%
    * 24. Civil engineering 4.9%
    * 25. (tie) Electrical engineering; environmental science; math 5%

    And…

    20 Best-Paying College Degrees by Salary in 2011
    College Degree Mid-Career Median Salary

    1. Petroleum engineering $155,000
    2. Chemical engineering $109,000
    3. Electrical engineering $103,000
    4. Material science & engineering $103,000
    5. Aerospace engineering $102,000
    6. Physics $101,000
    7. Applied mathematics $98,600
    8. Computer engineering $101,000
    9. Nuclear engineering $97,800
    10. Biomedical engineering $97,800
    11. Economics $94,700
    12. Mechanical engineering $94,500
    13. Statistics $93,800
    14. Industrial engineering $93,100
    15. Civil engineering $90,200
    16. Mathematics $89,900
    17. Environmental engineering $88,600
    18. Management Info. Systems $88,200
    19. Software engineering $87,800
    20. Finance $87,300

    Facts are strange bed fellows to liberals.

  20. 25

    Blue John spews:

    Cool. I can bear to read puddy when he’s actually talking about real stuff.

    I wonder if this information is out there for beginning college students, or would telling them this, be a burdensome regulation.

    Notice how about half the jobs in the College majors with lowest unemployment rates list are under attack by conservatives as free loaders and over paid leeches?

  21. 26

    masaba spews:

    Does this behavior by the police surprise anyone? It seems right in line with their recent behavior of kicking handcuffed (and, oh by the way, completely innocent) men in the head and threatening to beat the ‘Mexican piss’ out of them. Seems right in line with shooting a disabled wood carver three times for carrying a folding pocket knife.

    In fact, I would be surprised if the officers did anything other than show disproportionate and unconstitutional violence and aggression in reaction to peaceful protestors.

  22. 27

    Puddybud spews:

    Cool. I can bear to read puddy when he’s actually talking about real stuff.

    Ummm blue john you forgot what Roger DOPEY Rabbit said above about these facts…

    This is complete, utter, rancid bullshit. And because it is deliberate and premeditated, it is prosecutable as well.

    So which is it blue john?

  23. 28

    Puddybud spews:

    Notice how about half the jobs in the College majors with lowest unemployment rates list are under attack by conservatives as free loaders and over paid leeches?

    Got link blue john?

  24. 29

    spews:

    27. Puddybud spews:

    Cool. I can bear to read puddy when he’s actually talking about real stuff.

    Ummm blue john you forgot what Roger DOPEY Rabbit said above about these facts…

    This is complete, utter, rancid bullshit. And because it is deliberate and premeditated, it is prosecutable as well.

    So which is it blue john?

    11/22/2011 at 8:33 am

    The puddywuddypussy is ALL about the complete and utter rancid bullshit.

    LOLOLOLOL

  25. 30

    spews:

    28. Puddybud spews:

    Notice how about half the jobs in the College majors with lowest unemployment rates list are under attack by conservatives as free loaders and over paid leeches?

    Got link blue john?

    11/22/2011 at 8:34 am

    PS-blue john…

    …you don’t need to put up links for the motherfucker, check this out:

    52. Puddybud spews:

    The guy who wouldn’t condemn his buddy Glenn Beck for equating the teenage victims of a white-supremicist attach as being members of a “Hitler Youth Camp”?

    Still didn’t find it? You didn’t ask ylb? Well rhp6033, I don’t jump for you so tough!

    11/21/2011 at 3:04 pm

    See? Don’t bother.

  26. 31

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh my poor rujax such a moron… I posted the comment weeks ago. I don’t repost for idiots such as you or rhp6033.

    Life is tough for you being an idiot rujax!

    Wait for this full cut and repaste!

  27. 32

    spews:

    @31…

    Don’t worry little teeny-tinee MISTER puddywuddyduddypussy…I’ll have PLENTY more opportunities to show what a god-damned fucking idiot you are…

    …oh BTW…don’t hear much about ol’Superduper Fly Herman Cain. How’s the your home boy doin’? Teh jesus must not want that hater to be Preisident.

    Too.

    Damn.

    Bad.

  28. 33

    spews:

    Add @32…

    Did you know that Obama sent Cass Sundstein out to PERSONALLY fuck Herman’s shit up???

    True story!

    The Cassassinator!

  29. 34

    Blue John spews:

    28. Puddybud spews:

    Notice how about half the jobs in the College majors with lowest unemployment rates list are under attack by conservatives as free loaders and over paid leeches?

    Got link blue john?

    It’s all over the news for the last year. It’s been discussed so many times here in HA. If you choose not to remember what your own party has been systematically doing, no link I provide can help you remember.

  30. 35

    rhp6033 spews:

    To Puddy @ # 31:

    I’ll re-paste this, which is on the previous thread, just for your convenience:

    “# 109: Nope, I’m not going to search through several months of comments for a response which may or may not exist.

    Speak planly, Puddy, and say yea or nay – do you repudiate Glen Beck for equating the victims with Hitler Youth Camps? Is it so hard for that to squeek through your mouth that you can’t do so? I know you are on this thread now, so you can’t pretend you didn’t see this.”

  31. 36

    Blue John spews:

    I would like to know the demand for the jobs listed in the
    20 Best-Paying College Degrees by Salary in 2011 College Degree Mid-Career Median Salary.
    Are there 20 openings or 200,000. It makes a difference.

    I see that
    10. Biomedical engineering $97,800 pays well, but 24. Biochemical sciences 7.1% is also listed as one of the College majors with the highest unemployment.

  32. 37

    Blue John spews:

    You are exhibiting your typical behavior of muddying the discussion. This is why I generally don’t read your posts. You are unwilling to stand up for what you post.
    I was talking about your post about jobs.
    Instead of responding to the post about jobs, you blather on about something rabbit said, that had nothing to do with your post about jobs.

    Why are you so unwilling to discuss what you post?
    Or would you rather try to change the subject and blame something on rabbit or rujax?

  33. 38

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 24: I also applaud you for posting something usefull for discussion – and readable in the King’s English.

    Now, let’s start by pointing out a couple of things.

    Your third list is for “Mid-Career” salary levels. Interesting that this has nothing to do with entry-scale wages, or even wages within the first five or ten years. # 5 is for Aerospace Engineering, and # 9 is for Nuclear Engineering. My own thought is that these aren’t particularly high wages for someone with that amount of responsibility and probably a couple of decades on the job. But more importantly, those happen to be cyclical industries. You might not have anybody lower than a mid-career level, because they have been laid off in the previous cycles. Note that despite being in the top 20 wage levels, these professions don’t show up anywhere in the list of lowest unemployment figures.

    Now, nuclear engineering is probably going to go through at least another five years of no growth, while they sort out the damage from the Fukashima disaster in Japan. Sure, the Fukashima disaster is old technology, and there’s a lot newer technology available. But governments are doing brand-new risk-assessments based on the risk of a combination of earthquake and tsunami, either or both of which could cut off power to the reactor for weeks at a time.

    But with respect to Aerospace Engineering, there is a demand right now. It will probably continue for an uncertain amount of time as both Boeing and Airbus have new commercial products in the the development and engineering phase. But a lot of that work is increasingly being out-sourced overseas, Boeing has invested heavily in a Russian firm to provide some engineering work. Defense work relies upon U.S. Citizens as engineers so it is more difficult to out-source overseas, but except for the 787 tanker project and the Poseiden anti-submarine project (which is already in production at Renton), this may get scaled back.

    So the problem is that an incoming freshman in college has to make some choices fairly early on in his/her education. Choosing a degree based on current demand isn’t any more likely to make one employable than taking a stab in the dark. Predicting the future has always been mostly guesswork.

    Oh, and as for the # 21: PE/Health Education majors. These former college athletes get jobs in middle schools and high schools as football and basketball coaches. Once the PE/Health class slots are filled, they hire them to teach history, and also assign them to work as assistant football and basketball coaches. That’s why history majors have such high unemployment rates – our school systems think that having another assistant football coach is more valuable than someone who actually knows history. It also explains why our high schools graduate students with such a poor knowledge of history.

  34. 39

    Puddybud spews:

    Ummm blue john, Roger DOPEY Rabbit called it uhhh oh yeah…

    This is complete, utter, rancid bullshit. And because it is deliberate and premeditated, it is prosecutable as well.

    So now you claim Republicans have been picking on some of these professions? Where? They PICKED ON SOME PEOPLE in these professions blue john.

    BIG DIFFERENCE!

  35. 40

    Puddybud spews:

    As I said rhp6033 I will NOT repost it. Ask the crazed databaze producer.

    Be a man rhp6033, grow some marbuls… ask ylb. He’ll provide the evidence. Or, as I suspect you are a gasbag, posting long winded posts.

  36. 41

    Steve spews:

    “Notice how about half the jobs in the College majors with lowest unemployment rates list are under attack by conservatives as free loaders and over paid leeches?”

    “Got link blue john?”

    Half? Almost the entire list falls under education, public service and the sciences.

    Do wingnuts hate on these folk? After spending years here hating on these people, the hate-filled, self-loathing black loon who converses here with his sockpuppet about his dick, who believes that the earth is 6,000 years old, and who believes that Sunday Blue Laws herald the end of the world, requires a link. So you best come up with a link, Blue John, or stop with the wild accusations.

  37. 42

    Puddybud spews:

    Wow this is the newest attack by Stupid Solution Steve… Another Puddy Stalker 24×7.

    Do wingnuts hate on these folk?

    Only certain people in those professions Stupid Solution Steve. Too bad you can’t figger out the difference.

    Glad to see I AM CONTINUOUSLY IN YOUR HEAD!

    You lose sucka!

  38. 43

    spews:

    42. Puddybud spews:

    Wow this is the newest attack by Stupid Solution Steve… Another Puddy Stalker 24×7.

    Do wingnuts hate on these folk?

    Only certain people in those professions Stupid Solution Steve. Too bad you can’t figger out the difference.

    Glad to see I AM CONTINUOUSLY IN YOUR HEAD!

    You lose sucka!

    11/22/2011 at 10:20 am

    Fuck…time to turn the Cassassinator loose on the poorpoor little puddywuddyduddypussy…

    HAHAHAHA

  39. 44

    ArtFart spews:

    “absent additional compelling factors”

    The “compelling factor” at this point regarding OWS is that the downtown business interests (in Seattle and elsewhere) want everything sanitized and prettied up before Black Friday.

  40. 45

    Puddybud spews:

    I would like to know the demand for the jobs listed in the
    20 Best-Paying College Degrees by Salary in 2011 College Degree Mid-Career Median Salary.
    Are there 20 openings or 200,000. It makes a difference.

    Look it up blue john. Can you research?

  41. 47

    Blue John spews:

    Stripping teachers of collective bargaining rights is only part of a larger assault on the credibility of the teaching profession. Republican governors in Michigan, Wisconsin, New Jersey and Florida have repeatedly demeaned teachers as lazy and overpaid (although their average salary is less than one-third of those of the governors who attack them) while cutting school budgets and laying off teachers by the thousands.
    http://www.topnewsreports.com/.....rt002.html

  42. 48

    Puddybud spews:

    And all can see I am totally inside the head of rujax. Well I am filling the vacuum caused by the missing brain aka anencephaly.

  43. 49

    ArtFart spews:

    @24 Puddy, I’ll certainly give you credit here for posting something interesting and potentially useful. A couple of thoughts come to mind:

    First, that there are a lot of unemployed clinical psychologists is somewhat alarming, being as there are certainly plenty of people out and about who are at least a bubble and a half off plumb.

    Secondly, for the two last groups (occupations with the lowest unemployment and highest salaries) I’d think that a lot of members of some of those professions have advanced degrees. (What, for instance, does someone with only a bachelor’s degree in math or physics do for a living?) If so, it may be an unfair comparison with some other lines of work in which four years of college is sufficient. On the other hand, going back to clinical psych, the same thing is true–you need at least a master’s.

  44. 51

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh my blue john let’s review the facts

    Union Dues, Not Education, Are Our Top Priority

    Watch the video blue john.

    And what are “employee rights” and “due process,” you might ask? Well, those are what require New York City to pay 700 union teachers $65 million a year to do nothing. Same thing in Los Angeles, where 165 union teachers collect a total of $10 million a year from tax payers for doing nothing.

  45. 52

    spews:

    48. Puddybud spews:

    And all can see I am totally inside the head of rujax. Well I am filling the vacuum caused by the missing brain aka anencephaly.

    11/22/2011 at 10:33 am

    The Cassassinator is on to you puddywuddyduddypussy! He’s gonna do you like he did Herman Cain.

    The Democrat Machine will not be denied.

    BwaHaHa!!!

  46. 53

    spews:

    51. Puddybud spews:

    Oh my blue john let’s review the facts…

    Union Dues, Not Education, Are Our Top Priority

    Watch the video blue john.

    And what are “employee rights” and “due process,” you might ask? Well, those are what require New York City to pay 700 union teachers $65 million a year to do nothing. Same thing in Los Angeles, where 165 union teachers collect a total of $10 million a year from tax payers for doing nothing.

    11/22/2011 at 10:39 am

    …and the link is from the Heritage Foundation.

    Really.

    SUCH an unimpeachable source.

    Ouch…the puddywuddyduddypussy strikes again!!!

  47. 54

    Puddybud spews:

    I cracked up on this

    First, that there are a lot of unemployed clinical psychologists is somewhat alarming, being as there are certainly plenty of people out and about who are at least a bubble and a half off plumb.

    Especially when you see the brain power of HA leftists who are a bubble and a half off plumb posting here attacking Puddy!

    If so, it may be an unfair comparison with some other lines of work in which four years of college is sufficient. On the other hand, going back to clinical psych, the same thing is true–you need at least a master’s.

    It’s the initial choice ArtFart.

  48. 55

    Blue John spews:

    You hate unions and and all things union. I get that.
    Your party is doing it’s best to destroy public education in the name of union busting.
    Let’s see. The link is from 2 years ago, so already it’s stale.

    In New York City public schools, which make up the country’s largest district, teachers are confined to “rubber rooms.” About 550 of the district’s 80,000 teachers spend school hours “literally just doing crossword puzzles, waiting for the end of the day” until their cases are resolved, spokeswoman Ann Forte said. Some have been there for years.

    Lets see 550 by 80,000…so for 0.69% of the teachers, you want to destroy the teachers union and teachers in general. I wished you would spend that fury against a 1% against the 1%!

  49. 57

    Puddybud spews:

    $65 million

    Some have been there for years.

    Is nothing blue john?

    Well when you have family members all over America FORCED to pay union dues because they don’t march to the DUMMOCRAPTIC line, yeah there is a very big extended family distaste for Teacher Union activities!

  50. 59

    spews:

    56. Puddybud spews:

    Oh the video is from the Heritage Foundation? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w

    How absurd!

    As I said above “HA leftists who are a bubble and a half off plumb posting here attacking Puddy”!

    11/22/2011 at 11:09 am

    http://blog.heritage.org/2009/.....-priority/

    NEA General Counsel: Union Dues, Not Education, Are Our Top Priority

    Conn Carroll

    July 9, 2009 at 12:03 pm

    General Counsel Bob Chanin explains to NEA convention why Big Labor is so powerful:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w[/youtube]

    Despite what some among us would like to believe it is not because of our creative ideas; it is not because of the merit of our positions; it is not because we care about children; and it is not because we have a vision of a great public school for every child.

    The NEA and its affiliates are effective advocates because we have power. And we have power because there are more than 3.2 million people who are willing to pay us hundreds of million of dollars in dues each year because they believe that we are the unions that can most effectively represent them; the union that can protect their rights and advance their interests as education employees.

    This is not to say that the concern of NEA and its affiliates with closing achievement gaps, reducing drop rate rates, improving teacher quality, and the like are unimportant or inappropriate. To the contrary these are the goals that guide the work we do. But they need not and must not be achieved at the expense of due process, employee rights, or collective bargaining.

    That is simply too high a price to pay.

    Where to begin? First of all, there is little that is voluntary about the millions in dues paid to the NEA every year. The NEA is strongest in states without right to work laws, and if you want to teach in a public school that is under an NEA contract in those jurisdictions (like California and New York), you must pay dues to the NEA. It is the law. There is nothing voluntary about it. Second, that is tax payer money he’s talking about, which is exactly what is so corrupting about public sector unions: the government is lobbying itself for its own expansion.

    And what are “employee rights” and “due process,” you might ask? Well, those are what require New York City to pay 700 union teachers $65 million a year to do nothing. Same thing in Los Angeles, where 165 union teachers collect a total of $10 million a year from tax payers for doing nothing.

    If you have the time, do watch the whole 25 minute address. Chanin recounts the rise of public sector collective bargaining, with a rapid rise in teacher unionization in the late 60s. He talks about all the victories the NEA has won for teachers since then. But ask yourselves, as the NEA has exploded in membership, budget, and power, how have American students fared? What have unions done for their education? Absolutely nothing.

    Posted in Education, Enterprise and Free Markets

    THIS…

    …is from the FUCKIN HERITAGE FOUNDATION YOU LYING SACK OF SHIT!!!

    THIS could have been written by the liar puddybuddy.

    Deliberate distortion and twisting to gain a political advantage. My my my my my how ABOUT that!!!

    Fuck the puddywuddydudypussy…here is his lie in all it’s glory…for ALL the world to see.

    Have fun in hell, pally…your teh jesus don’t like them liars…liars like you.

  51. 61

    Steve spews:

    Why, only this morning a Galtian lackey was giving America’s educators some love,

    Fox News, radio Tony Katz sez,

    “There’s no such thing as income inequality. A stockbroker makes more than a schoolteacher and a schoolteacher exists off the excesses of the stockbroker and the capitalist and people who pay into the system to allow the educator to exist.”

    You see, it’s like this. In the Galtian universe of job creators and ungrateful leaches, educators are only allowed to exist.

    I see it another way. Our Galtian overlords live only as long as we allow them to live. They taunt us at their own risk.

  52. 62

    spews:

    http://nymag.com/news/politics.....m-2011-11/

    When Did the GOP Lose Touch With Reality?

    Some of my Republican friends ask if I’ve gone crazy. I say: Look in the mirror.

    By David Frum Published Nov 20, 2011

    “What if [Obama] is so outside our comprehension that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior can you begin to piece together [his actions]?”
    (Photo: Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images)

    It’s a very strange experience to have your friends think you’ve gone crazy. Some will tell you so. Others will indulgently humor you. Still others will avoid you. More than a few will demand that the authorities do something to get you off the streets. During one unpleasant moment after I was fired from the think tank where I’d worked for the previous seven years, I tried to reassure my wife with an old cliché: “The great thing about an experience like this is that you learn who your friends really are.” She answered, “I was happier when I didn’t know.”

    It’s possible that my friends are right. I don’t think so—but then, crazy people never do. So let me put the case to you.

    I’ve been a Republican all my adult life. I have worked on the editorial page of The Wall Street Journal, at Forbes magazine, at the Manhattan and American Enterprise Institutes, as a speechwriter in the George W. Bush administration. I believe in free markets, low taxes, reasonable regulation, and limited government. I voted for John ­McCain in 2008, and I have strongly criticized the major policy decisions of the Obama administration. But as I contemplate my party and my movement in 2011, I see things I simply cannot support.

    .

    America desperately needs a responsible and compassionate alternative to the Obama administration’s path of bigger government at higher cost. And yet: This past summer, the GOP nearly forced America to the verge of default just to score a point in a budget debate. In the throes of the worst economic crisis since the Depression, Republican politicians demand massive budget cuts and shrug off the concerns of the unemployed. In the face of evidence of dwindling upward mobility and long-stagnating middle-class wages, my party’s economic ideas sometimes seem to have shrunk to just one: more tax cuts for the very highest earners. When I entered Republican politics, during an earlier period of malaise, in the late seventies and early eighties, the movement got most of the big questions—crime, inflation, the Cold War—right. This time, the party is getting the big questions disastrously wrong.

    This is an expansion on your point, Steve…by David Frum no less…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Frum

    David J. Frum (pronounced /ˈfrʌm/; born June 30, 1960) is a Canadian American journalist active in both the United States and Canadian political arenas. A former economic speechwriter for President George W. Bush, he is also the author of the first “insider” book about the Bush presidency. His editorial columns have appeared in a variety of Canadian and American magazines and newspapers, including the National Post and The Week.[2] He is the founder of FrumForum.com (formerly NewMajority.com), a political group blog,[3] and serves on the board of directors of the Republican Jewish Coalition.

  53. 63

    Puddybud spews:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w[/youtube]

    What a putz this rujax is.

    THIS…

    …is from the FUCKIN HERITAGE FOUNDATION

    Yes the video was MADE BY THE &*^%$# HERITAGE FOUNDATION. Those words spoken on the video by the man were from a HERITAGE FOUNDATION script.

    “HA leftists who are a bubble and a half off plumb posting here attacking Puddy”! – that’s rujax!

  54. 64

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 40. Typical. “I will NOT repost”.

    I’m not asking you to duplicate your previous post. Just say “yea” or “nay” as to whether you repudiate Glenn Beck’s comments.

    I’m not going to waste YLB’s time in trying to find a post which may, or may not, answer the question. I suspect you may be referring to one comment where you said that before you would reply, you wanted me to jump through some hoops for you. I’m not your circus animal.

    Your efforts to avoid this subject are pretty clear.

  55. 66

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 61: So, the finance guy who only makes money trading financial notes back and forth is the only real “producer”, and the teachers who taught him the basic skills he needed to qualify him for that job exist only due to his good graces?

    Wow. What a screwed-up mindset these guys have.

  56. 67

    Puddybud spews:

    I’m not asking you to duplicate your previous post. Just say “yea” or “nay” as to whether you repudiate Glenn Beck’s comments.

    That would mean I am reposting my answer just with one word rhp6033. Don’t play games dude!

    I’m not going to waste YLB’s time in trying to find a post which may, or may not, answer the question.

    No marbuls eh?

  57. 68

    spews:

    63. Puddybud spews:

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w[/youtube]

    What a putz this rujax is.

    THIS…

    …is from the FUCKIN HERITAGE FOUNDATION

    Yes the video was MADE BY THE &*^%$# HERITAGE FOUNDATION. Those words spoken on the video by the man were from a HERITAGE FOUNDATION script.

    “HA leftists who are a bubble and a half off plumb posting here attacking Puddy”! – that’s rujax!

    11/22/2011 at 11:55 am

    God.

    Damned…(literally…your teh jesus hates liars)

    Fucking.

    Liar.

    Proved…as we all do here…rhp and ylb and the bunny and Steve and all the cats that are MUCH SMARTER than Ol’ Rujax! do 24/7/365.

    Every god-damned day these assclowns like puddywuddyduddypussy get pwned.

    Every day…sooooooo easy, sooooooo much fun.

  58. 69

    Blue John spews:

    Is nothing blue john?
    Of course not. 0.69% is something. But out of every $100 in dues, $0.69 is spent on them and $99.31 is going toward helping the members in other ways.

    Are CEO salaries only 0.69% of cost of a company’s profits? Are you railing against that?

    Is there only 0.69% waste fraud and abuse in the defense spending? Are you railing against that?

    What I fault you on, is your sense of scale. You want to destroy a vital liberal leaning organization over 0.69%, but you won’t think of touching anything conservative for amounts much bigger.

  59. 70

    Blue John spews:

    67.
    I’m not asking you to duplicate your previous post. Just say “yea” or “nay” as to whether you repudiate Glenn Beck’s comments.

    Yeah puddy, what do you say?

  60. 71

    rhp6033 spews:

    Look, as much as I hate to admit it, the financial guys are useful in society. Not nearly to the extent they are compensated under the present system, but useful nonetheless. They are the brokers which allow the available money to match up with those who need it for investment purposes – whether it be for an individual to buy a house, or an entrepreneur to fund his business.

    Also useful are the salesmen, because until a sale is made, then nothing gets produced. Similarly, the government regulators who make sure the system is set up so that everyone is operating on an even playing field, that the products are safe, and that customers aren’t being defrauded. Likewise, the lawyers are useful for the same purpose, making sure that all parties follow those rules, and judges for the purpose of enforcing those rules.

    Then you have the people who actually design and produce the product, ane are ironically among the lowest paid of all in the process.

    Don’t forget the ancillary support staff – quality assurance, customer service, accounting, etc.

    What is rather amazing is so many people don’t accept that it takes a team effort to bring any product to market. Those that spend their time trying to assert that they are the most important people in the chain, or the ONLY important people in the chain, are clueless.

    By far, the important person in the product production and distribution chain is – the customer.

  61. 73

    Puddybud spews:

    Already said it once blue john. Won’t repeat it because rhp6033 missed it. He can ask ylb to find it for him but he won’t. I don’t do his bidding because he stated long ago he don’t read Puddy posts. Well looks like rhp6033 missed that post blue john.

    Also that $65 million is part of the taxpayer money being wasted blue john. What do CEO salaries have to do with school budgets blue john? What does that wasted salary have to do with union dues blue john.

    Two useless canards from blue john.

  62. 74

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 67: No, I’m tired of trying to get you to answer a simple question. You simply will avoid it. You’ve already showed what type of person you are, I don’t need to do it any more. How’s it feel to have your lack of humanity displayed for all to see? Most people would be embarrased, but I would guess you are beyond that by now.

  63. 75

    Puddybud spews:

    Why is rujax a bubble and a half off plumb? The words and video are not from Heritage. The words are the teacher’s union leader. The video is from youtube. I can find another source and the words and video will be the same.

    rujax a bubble and a half off plumb! He can’t understand that!

    Stupid is as stupid is and rujax is really really stupid 24×7!

  64. 76

    Puddybud spews:

    No, I’m tired of trying to get you to answer a simple question.

    Nope you dope. I answered this weeks ago. I am not on Earth to do your whims or biddings.

    See ya!

  65. 77

    spews:

    The coward Puddybud is just too much of a bought and paid for tool to stand on conviction.

    Either Beck was right to call those kids gunned down by that right wing maniac “Hilter Youth” or he was wrong..

    Yea or nay…

    But the tool has said many, many times that “Glenn Beck is right again!”.. That’s a fact. Infer what you want from that.

  66. 78

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 73: Just to re-cap, Puddy didn’t answer for weeks my repeated calls to repudiate Glenn Beck equating the victims of the shooting in Sweden as participants in a Hitler Youth Camp.

    Then when I called him on it again, he said he had responded. But he refuses to post a link, or refer to a date – he says I have to go search for it.

    I quit going on snipe hunts a long time ago. I called on Puddy to just repeat, here and now, whether he agreed with Beck or not. He just answers that he won’t repeat his comments. Note that he won’t say he repudiated Beck’s comments, he just says he responded.

    It’s so easy – either you agree with him, or not. Puddy doesn’t want to say. That tells you a lot about Puddy, doesn’t it?

  67. 79

    rhp6033 spews:

    Puddy @ # 76:

    “Nope you dope. I answered this weeks ago. I am not on Earth to do your whims or biddings.

    See ya!”

    Getting a little to hot for you here? Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  68. 80

    spews:

    @78…

    It’s so easy – either you agree with him, or not. Puddy doesn’t want to say. That tells you a lot about Puddy, doesn’t it?

    Yep…everything.

  69. 81

    Puddybud spews:

    Getting a little to hot for you here? Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    Ummm no ya moron. I have to visit the Feds to get official documentation for my next overseas installation. So the see ya was for your benefit. There is no heat.

  70. 82

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh my the crazed databaze moron appears to “pile on”. Why not tell him the results of your “search”. I know you have the exact data and time I posted my initial answer to rhp6033. So why not share it ylb? Or did your search mechanism fail again stalker?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

    Gotta go. FedEX is calling!

  71. 86

    spews:

    81. Puddybud spews:

    Getting a little to hot for you here? Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    Ummm no ya moron. I have to visit the Feds to get official documentation for my next overseas installation. So the see ya was for your benefit. There is no heat.

    11/22/2011 at 12:54 pm

    The puddywuddyduddypussy is SUCKING ON THE GUMMINT TIT???

    Oh my god…too fucking funny. What an asshole hypocrite.

    Let’s cut funding for HIS job.

  72. 87

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 84: Well, I wasn’t going to ask you to waste your time trying to figure out where he commented. But you graciously proceeded to sift through the threads to come up with those little “gems”.

    If that’s a “response”, it’s clearly not a repudiation of Beck’s analogy.

  73. 88

    Puddybud spews:

    Pavlov called it. ylb will always stalk Puddy.

    ylb, keep searching… it’s just like your monomaniacal search failure. I didn’t use the name Beck in the response specifically so you would have to search more.

  74. 89

    rhp6033 spews:

    Getting back to Ken Schram: Does anybody listen to him anymore? His commentaries have always been the most lightweight possible, mostly devoid of content.

  75. 90

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh my rujax has lost it… I said I needed Fed official documentation not Fed assistance. I realize rujax is an abject moron in so many things, he’s never heard of the GOES program. You know the one where you don’t have to enter the x-ray scanners like the common HA leftist creeps at Sea-Tac. When you fly as much as I do well… Every so often you need to provide supplemental documentation.

    So you can keep calling Puddy a liar and Puddy will keep making bank! What a moron! What an idiot!

    He’s such a fool. rujax is a bubble and a half off plumb!!!!!!!!! He hangs upside down from the rafters and howls at the moon!

    HAHAHAHAHAHA

  76. 92

    Liberal Scientist thinks that concentrated power and wealth should be met with suspicion, not adoration spews:

    This is totally excellent!

    Pepper Spray Cop as internet meme of ridicule!

  77. 93

    rhp6033 spews:

    Puddy @ 81: “I have to visit the Feds to get official documentation for my next overseas installation.”

    Gee, Puddy phrases this comment to imply that he has to go work with the federal government for his “installation” overseas. He wants us to think that needs to secure permits for some high-technology project or another, and is therefore a very important person!

    Puddy @ 90: “I said I needed Fed official documentation not Fed assistance. I realize rujax is an abject moron in so many things, he’s never heard of the GOES program. You know the one where you don’t have to enter the x-ray scanners like the common HA leftist creeps at Sea-Tac. When you fly as much as I do well… Every so often you need to provide supplemental documentation.”

    Oh, he just doesn’t want to stand in line with the rest of the Hoi Paloi. That’s why he thinks he’s a very important person!

  78. 94

    poor little jennifer fox..I bet she is a skank spews:

    20. David spews:
    I would say this may probably be the first expensive lawsuit: http://www.democraticundergrou.....9×2359626

    11/22/2011 AT 2:13 AM

    AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAH…and the whole Jennifer Fox thing was proven to be a SCAM! HAHAHAHA

    of course fools like you and the mini-minded robots at DU fell for it! HAHAHAHAHHHAHA

    EVEN HER PARENTS SAY SHE IS LYING!

    SHE USED THE SAME BS STORY 3 MONTHS AGO!!!!

    THERE IS A REASON THE OCCUPY IDIOTS ARE NOT EMPLOYED – BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY AND STUPID!

  79. 95

    Michael spews:

    @94

    I’m not sure how it is surprising to people, both left and right, that a poor peoples movement, which erects street encampments, would attract and include at least a few mentally ill homeless people. Why people didn’t check her story out before repeating it is beyond me.

    The left to their credit has at least treated the mentally ill, the disabled, and the homeless with compassion and tried to help them out. The right, who seem to love to talk the talk about kindness, charity, and what would Jesus do, seem to have a hard time walking the walk.

  80. 96

    Michael spews:

    @94
    With employers hiring for round about 60K jobs in Washington State and round about 317,000 people on unemployment it’s understandable (it’s 3rd grade math) that some people would have a hard time finding work.

  81. 97

    spews:

    of course fools like you and the mini-minded robots at DU fell for it!

    Yawwwn… Just checked.. No discussion of Jennifer Fox at all here in the threads..

    Google search of this site turns up nothing.

    First mention of jennifer fox is your mean-spirited bullshit.. Typical..

  82. 99

    Michael spews:

    @97
    I think there was a whopping one mention of her, just not by name. Slog reported first and as pretty much fact. At least they were just talking about a homeless kid, not mobile WMD factories or Saddam Hussein’s connection to 9/11, I’m sure the media would do a more through checking of the facts for something like those.

  83. 100

    Partyin' Hard spews:

    I bet she is a skank

    You think this woman did this because she’s promiscuous? She is obviously not well.

    Anonymously bashing a homeless 19 year old girl can’t possibly be the best use of your time. Shove off, idiot.

  84. 103

    Puddybud spews:

    Gee, Puddy phrases this comment to imply that he has to go work with the federal government for his “installation” overseas. He wants us to think that needs to secure permits for some high-technology project or another, and is therefore a very important person!

    Oh my rhp6033. Do you have GOES approval? What does it mean? What do you have to do every so often?

    I don’t have to stand in certain lines rhp6033. There are special machines which deliver special paperwork. Do you comprehend what GOES allows you to do? Probably not since you are a Cass Sunstein malleable Homer Simpson moron!

    Let’s see the leftist moron answer those questions!

  85. 104

    Puddybud spews:

    Why people didn’t check her story out before repeating it is beyond me.

    Ummm Michael… she ran to The Stranger first thing. And we all know the connections between The Stranger and this blog right Michael? Now if she was pregnant, she should be providing the miscarriage documentation.

  86. 105

    Puddybud spews:

    Once again the moronic ylb with the crazed HA databaze search fails again. Now he’s using Google search. Well we know why. His own coded search method is worthless and useless. I mentioned it first here.

    This is the reason why he still can’t find my Glenn Beck comment. He thinks one dimensional. He searches specific phrases. This is why his code SUCKS and how come his Google search sucks.

  87. 106

    spews:

    105 – zzzzZZZZZzzz… Stupid… A Glenn Beck comment without glenn or beck in it…

    Let me guess.

    “I slavishly follow any dictate of my fav GEEEEBEEEEE… I’m a fanboi!”

    Was that it???

  88. 107

    Puddybud spews:

    Oh my “zzzzzzZZZZZzzzz” What a tard! Keep looking dickless wonder. Did I first mention Jennifer Fox or not ya moron? Admit you can’t search to save your sorry ASS from ridicule!

    R I D I C U L E!

    You are rujax are two nappy headed hos and the most lunatic and stupid people I have ever met!

  89. 108

    spews:

    107 – A change of pace..

    A while back you had a question about my wife appearing in a video…

    I will answer that question if you answer one from me first about your wife. Hint: I’ve asked one form of it before.

    Are you game?

  90. 109

    Puddybud spews:

    @108,

    Running away from another failure? There you go again derailing the train from the tracks. NOPE you have some ‘splaining to do above! First answer my question above. Then admit you are a search failure fool! GAME?

    Then I’ll consider the next step! Remember I asked first!

  91. 110

    spews:

    108 – NO FUCKING DEAL. Forget I asked..

    I have ever met!

    Never made your miserable acquaintance to my recollection… Don’t plan to.. EVER!

    ta ta fool. Happy turkey day…

  92. 111

    Puddybud spews:

    @110 Cha-ching!

    ylb what a useless leftist moron!

    Met you here on HA and must say it’s been very distasteful!

    Thanks for playing!

  93. 112

    wishy washy spews:

    97. YLB spews:
    of course fools like you and the mini-minded robots at DU fell for it!

    Yawwwn… Just checked.. No discussion of Jennifer Fox at all here in the threads..

    I didnt day HA, you fucking fool – I said DU, which was where the link was from.

    Get a clue fuckhead.

    go back to selling greencards and fake ID’s.

  94. 113

    spews:

    112. Nice try dumbass.. You lambasted David too who is commenting here in the threads.

    Have a supremely racist turkey day chump..

    Have a healthy helping of hating native americans to go with the rest of your miserable hateful existence tomorrow ya moron!

  95. 114

    spews:

    Met you here on HA

    In you stupid dreams fool! You wouldn’t be trying every which way till Saturday to get me to go to DL to “meet” your miserable ass if that were true.

    AGAIN: IT AIN’T EVER GOING TO HAPPEN if I can help it.

  96. 115

    Puddybud spews:

    Why do you always change the subject when you are losing the argument. Answer the questions!

    Wait for it… Pavlov calls the classic answer to appear!