Does IL-14 presage a GOP congressional collapse?

Yeah, Sen. Barack Obama won the Wyoming Democratic caucus yesterday by a twenty-plus point margin, but his bigger victory came in Illinois, where he won a proxy war with Sen. John McCain in the special election to replace former House Speaker Dennis Hastert. Obama cut an ad on behalf of Democrat Bill Foster while McCain personally campaigned with Republican Jim Oberweis. Foster won by a comfortable 53% to 47% margin in a traditionally Republican district in which President Bush garnered 55% of the vote in 2004, and that hadn’t elected a Democrat since the 1970’s. Those who have argued Obama would have long coattails in November are surely cheered by the results.

But yesterday’s special election has deeper implications that have Republicans worried nationwide, possibly presaging a second Big Blue Wave that could potentially reshape congressional politics for a decade or more:

The defeat — whether or not there are national implications — is a major setback for the NRCC and House Republicans. The NRCC spent nearly $1.3 million defending the seat, a significant percentage of the $6.4 million the committee showed on hand at the end of January. That is a major investment of limited resources — only to come up empty.

House Republicans, already dispirited by the loss of their majority in the 2006 election and more than two dozen retirements within their ranks since then, will likely take this defeat hard. Watch to see whether a rash of retirements breaks out over the coming weeks as vulnerable members take the Illinois special election as a sign of things to come in the fall.

Party identity sticks hard, but we may be in the midst of the type of large scale partisan realignment we haven’t seen since the Democrats lost the South in the 1960’s. In 2006 Northeastern Republicans were virtually eradicated from the congressional map, and 2008 is shaping up to do the same in the Midwest. What this means for Washington’s most vulnerable Republican, Rep. Dave Reichert, remains unclear, but… well… it can’t look good from his perspective. Twice now Reichert has been bailed out by multi-million dollar NRCC expenditures in a district that used to pump money into the party under Rep. Jennifer Dunn instead of sucking money out; with an unprecedented number of open seats to defend and a staggering cash disadvantage, the NRCC is going to have to make some tough choices about where they invest their resources.

With so many other fires to fight this cycle, does it make sense for the party to continue to prop up a perpetually needy Reichert? Or, would they be better off protecting stronger incumbents elsewhere, and then coming back with an energetic Reagan Dunn against a freshman Rep. Darcy Burner in 2010, a cycle in which Democrats are due an electoral backlash? I know conventional wisdom dictates that a party’s first priority is to defend the seats they hold, but if Burner is as much of a lightweight as Republicans claim they believe her to be, a 2010 strategy could prove politically savvy. And besides, desperate times call for desperate measures, and the NRCC simply may not have the option of continuing to throw good money after bad.

Regardless of the nominee at the top of the ticket Democrats are poised to make substantial gains in both houses of Congress. How big and lasting those gains are remains to be seen, but either way, shifting demographics and party alignment don’t bode well for the GOP in WA-08.


  1. 1

    correctnotright spews:

    Goldy – this is a HUGE vicotry for Democrats. this was a traditionally republican seat of Denny Hastert – the longest serving republican majority leader. It shows that the economy, the war and other issues are resonating with middle america. People are tired of corruption (tainted Haliburton water for our troops), lack of traditional moral high ground for Americans (Bush vetoing and McCain voting against the torture bill and catering to the corporations and multinationals.

    the GOP is going to go down big time come November…swing voter, the young, independents and democrats are going to send a strong message of reform and change. We are motivated and they are going to be in disarray.

  2. 2

    YLB spews:

    This corrupt, ugly, bankrupt Republican party is finished.

    No sympathy, no condolences whatsoever is due.

    May it be gone for a long, long time.

  3. 3

    YLB spews:

    Just so our resident village idiots know for whom and why they shill:

    The Rich
    Most rich people get most of their money from investments – also known as unearned income. So when investment income is taxed at a lower rate than earned income (what you get on your paycheck), which it is – then those who rely primarily on earned income are being taxed at a higher effective rate. This is a deliberate policy choice.

    When jobs are outsourced, the profits still flow back into the hands of US investors. While many people own stock and bonds (especially through pension funds) this disproportionately benefits the rich because the rich (as noted above) disproportionately receive their money from unearned income.

    When the domestic economy does badly, but corporate and general investment profits are up – the rich do fine because the cost of things they want (like servants) goes down as supply goes up. Those few people they do deign to employ cost less.

    When tax changes are made that are less progressive (moving to fees or flat taxes, for example, and away from income tax) it benefits the rich – because they earn more money and regressive taxes benefit those with more.

    When asset appreciation is only taxed at death it benefits the rich, because much of their net wealth is only taxed when they die.

    When estate taxes are gotten rid of – it benefits the rich (or rather their children).

    When public schools are defunded it benefits the rich. Their kids aren’t going to them anyway, and now they don’t have to pay for your kids to go there.

    When capital flow laws are relaxed it benefits the rich. Do you need to move a million dollars out of China in a few minutes to get an extra .1% overnight return? No?

    When the spread between inflation rates and the interest rate is high it benefits the rich, because most of them are creditors. It hurts the middle class and the poor – because they are debtors.

    When bankruptcy laws are tightened it hurts the poor and the middle class and helps the rich.

    Excellent essay.

  4. 4

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    This corrupt, ugly, bankrupt Republican party is finished.

    No sympathy, no condolences whatsoever is due.

    May it be gone for a long, long time.

    03/09/2008 at 11:17 am

    Keep dreaming. hehehehe Liberals only win elections by cheating or lying. The typical Amercian hates liberalism. This election is up to McCain to win or lose.

  5. 5

    YLB spews:

    Doofus @ 4

    I thought you were for Huckabee? Why did he suspend?

    Did the man upstairs convey the blessing on McCain?


    And as for “cheatin’ and lyin'”, Rove and Mehlman are working for McCain – that must have been what you meant.

  6. 6



    In an earlier post you expressed ennui about Hillary vs Obama. I think IL 14 illustrates why Obama is so important AND why it is worth worrying about his campaign. Obama has the potential of transforming the Dems. BUT, that assumes something I am not sure of, Does Obamism exist?”

    Hillary does not seem to have a distinctive philosphy other than feminism. Her principle attractions are to older white women and working class lower middle Americans. May I suggest that a “woman’s Party” is a failure before it is born?

    Bottom line, it is Obama who has the chance of creating a new democratic alliance that will last. But, he needs to emerge a thought leader.

    How does this involve the netroots? I was upset when the Obama campaign closed the Seattle office after our primaries. The campaign seems to me to be about electing BHO w/o attention to the long term issues of creatingan “Obamaite” base here in WAstate.

    This seems to me to be a real issue. Is there a “Obamist” movement? If BHO is elected, what would YOU want him to stand for?

    Here are my thoughts:

    1. Opportunity is the core principle of Americanism. Obamism should push free, merit based tutition, health care reform.

    2. New World Order. Clinton I lacked a foreign policy. We badly need one.

    3. Fiscal responsibility. We are in a corporatist world .. US Inc must compete with Toyota, China Inc, and Philips. This emans a new way of managing our economy. The US can not live off of the world’s loans.

    4. Isolationism is stupid. That said, we are in aposition to do a much better job of seeing that globalism acts in out inteterest. either Billary nor Obiwan have shown much in the way of new ideas on this issue.

    Back to the Netroots. I do not see the netroots doing much to push any issues or develop a philosophy. The good thing is the netroots have created anew sense of democracy, a possible answer to the monopolized media. In that sense the netroots more closely resembles Tammany Hall than the “movement” of the sixties.

    What do the netroots stand for?

  7. 8

    Two Dogs spews:

    Dunno if I’m on the left or not, but to my best knowledge he was named Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., at birth. What name were you given at birth?

  8. 9

    YLB spews:

    Actually a part of me hopes McCain will win. Look at what he’s going to inherit:

    1) Housing prices and sales will continue to decline. Expect 3 years before the bottom, as a very optimistic best case scenario.

    2) Commerical real-estate will suffer a steep decline as well.

    3) Consumer demand will drop. Unemployment will rise.

    4) The US will go into a recession at best, a depression at worst. Expect first stagflation (high inflation and high unemployment), both because of the increased price of imports and deliberate pump priming by the Fed, then deflation, as asset prices collapse so hard they take everything else with them. The other likely scenario is stagflation followed by hyperinflation. Formal inflation numbers put out will become not just a joke amongst market-watchers, but amongst the actual population. Same thing with unemployment numbers.

    This will REALLY put the nail in the coffin of the GOP.

    Read the rest. Another excellent economics post.

  9. 10

    palamedes spews:


    @7 wasn’t – that’s why all the “ME”-ing and such.

    Compensation, ya’know?

  10. 11

    palamedes spews:


    I understand your logic, but think about the last time just as nasty a scenario presented itself:


    I’ll take my chances on the party that actually is, ya’know, competent more often than not.

  11. 12


    Jew @6,

    My main point in yesterday’s post was that we in the netroots have substantially less influence on the outcome of the presidential nomination relative to these local races, and that local is where our focus should remain. I can want it to snow because I love snow, or I can want it not to snow because it will make my commute a nightmare, but wishing it or advocating for it one way or the other won’t change the weather.

    In announcing my support for Obama I made it clear that I was mostly influenced by what I believed to be his impact on down ticket races, but I don’t see this tactical issue worth of all the passionate ranting being carried forth by either side, and if down ticket races are what we focused on, then that is where we should be expending our personal energies.

  12. 13

    bma spews:

    @11: I’ll take my chances on the party that actually is, ya’know, competent more often than not.

    Which party are you talking about? Must be the Democrats, because it sure as hell isn’t the Republicans.

  13. 14

    YLB spews:

    11 – You’re confusing the misguided response to an attack by a couple dozen whackos with the fallout of a generation of bad economic policy, the full effect of which is just about here.

    I’d rather have the full effect fall on another Herbert Hoover. I’d rather that guy be John McCain.

  14. 15

    ME spews:


  15. 16


    !2 Goldy

    I agree with you. Mygawd, when did that happen last? The lanalogies between Obama and Kennedy/McCarthy are important, but Kennedy/McCarthy FAILED. How can Obama do better? Clearly he/we need to get elected but doing so in a way that mimicks on the left what Reagan achieved on the right should be the goal.

    How can we make that happen?

    BTW . I just posted an essay on last Tuesaday’s DL session:

    Take a look!

    Back at the subject, it seems to me that you are describing a real need for a grass roots movement that benefits form the Obama wave.

    How does the Obama campaign deal with the Darcy campaign?

  16. 17

    correctnotright spews:

    @15 – gee I seem to remeber an attack on Pearl Harbor – but the fact you need to go so far back – tells me how little you understand or know.

    We are talking about Iraq – trying to compare WWII or Korea to Iraq is stupid (Iraq was a war that was unnesssary and manufactured by Bush) – and if you remember your history – it was the republicans Nixon and Ford who took 7 years to get out of Vietnam – after promising a secret solution to end the war….

    so – republicans McCain and Bush supported this unessary war that has killed over 4,000 troops and injured

  17. 18

    HockeyPuck the dribbling Necromancer spews:

    re 3: Good article. The WingNutz™, however, will just label you as a sour-grapes envier of the rich.

  18. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “In 2006 Northeastern Republicans were virtually eradicated from the congressional map, and 2008 is shaping up to do the same in the Midwest.”

    Don’t overlook the Rocky Mountain states. In 2004, fewer than 700 people statewide showed up for Wyoming’s Democratic caucuses; yesterday, one precinct alone had 500 attendees. The Bush administration and congressional Republicans have deeply riled ranchers and farmers in places like Wyoming and Montana. What’s happening is these folks usually don’t own the mineral rights under their land and oil and gas exploration companies are coming in and tearing up their pastures and fouling the water their cattle and horses need with little consideration for the long-time residents. People who have supported Republicans for generations are suddenly seeing the folly of supporting Republicans. Peter Coors’ defeat in Colorado was a harbinger of things to come, although Colorado is a bit of a different story because there rapid urban growth is changing the political balance of the state. But the story is basically the same all over the Rocky Mountain region and farther west: States that for decades were bedrock Republican are now in play. We are rapidly getting to the point where the South not only won’t matter, but the South will be all the GOP has left.

  19. 20

    palamedes spews:


    Sorry for being unclear – I’d rather have the Democrats deal with the rough seas ahead, without question.

    And would someone pick a name for ME:@15/@7, please? He’s obviously got an inferiority complex to work through.

    Maybe it should be a competition? I’ll start – Dingleberry. ME seems very much a Dingleberry.

    Any better ideas for a name? ME needs one rather bad, I think, and should be, well, appropriate

  20. 21

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Yes, party identity sticks hard, but it can change and when it does it often changes overnight — and never swings back. The Great Depression not only turned millions of people into Democrats, and they not only stayed Democrats all their lives, but two generations later their children and grandchildren are still voting for Democrats. Yes, there are people so steeped in ideology and outright lies that they simply refuse to acknowledge, let alone be influenced by, the unending litany of economic and moral disasters spawned by the hopelessly corrupt and incompetent Bush administration; but at this point, the GOP have lost nearly all the swing voters capable of perceiving events and applying the mental faculty of reason, and some of them will never come back to the GOP. Like Goldy, I think the rightwing movement that began even before Nixon and Goldwater reached its highwater mark a few years ago, had its Gettysburg in Iraq, and is now in full retreat. 2008 may not be a ‘watershed’ election in the traditional sense because it likely will take more than one election for the realignment to fully unfold, but there’s no doubt that a political disaster is befalling the GOP and its candidates. This is, simply put, a horrible time to be a Republican if you’re a career politician. Of course, it was predictable, and I predicted it years ago. As early as 2002, I began telling my friends that Democrats didn’t have to do anything at all to bring down the GOP, because the Republicans would do it to themselves, and the only thing Democrats had to do was line up ringside seats and sit down and watch the show. And that’s exactly how it has unfolded.

  21. 22

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Another thing that’s beginning to affect the GOP is the massive wealth transfer taking place between generations. As the Old Republican money dies off, in many cases these fortunes end up in the control of children who are much more liberal than their parents were. It is by the passage of time and through the offices of the Grim Reaper that much of the reactionary money that has fueled the GOP’s reactionary agenda will be transformed into liberal money that will fuel the liberal resurgence already under way in the years ahead. For example, in the 2004 and 2006 election cycles the largest individual donors in Washington to Democratic causes and candidates were a married couple who each inherited fortunes from their parents.

  22. 23

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 Despite the broader dispersal of stock ownership (primarily through individually-managed retirement savings), the great bulk of investments are still owned by the rich and institutional investors such as insurance companies and pension funds.

  23. 24

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @7 “Barry” was a childhood nickname derived from “Barack,” not a birth name, dumbshit.

  24. 25

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @15 Germany got us into WW1 by torpeding American ships, Japan got us into WW2 by bombing Pearl Harbor, North Korea got us into the Korean War by invading South Korea, LBJ got us into Vietnam by listening to dumbshit and Nixon made it worse by being even dumber, Saddam Hussein got us into the Gulf War by invading Kuwait, and chimpface got us into Iraq by being even dumber than all the previous dumbshits put together.

  25. 26

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Our friend @15 appears to be a surrender monkey who would have given the Kaiser the high seas and Europe, would have given Japan the Pacific, and would have given Hitler the whole world … all without a fight. Coward.

  26. 27

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Trying to cut through the ignorance, misinformation, and sheer obtuse stupidity of our wingnut trolls is a herculean task if not altogether impossible — it’s easier to educate a tree stump.

  27. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “Me” and his ilk illustrate why there will always be a Republican Party. As P. T. Barnum said, “You can fool some of the people all of the time.”

  28. 30

    cmiklich spews:

    Re: Mr incorrectnotright @ 17:

    Nixon had the Paris Peace Accord signed w/ 4 years of inauguration. JFK/LBJ were there for twice that and were responsible for over 75% of US fatalities.

    As for Mr bma:

    …Which party are you talking about? Must be the Democrats, because it sure as hell isn’t the Republicans….

    Democrats: “Competent”?

    Yeah, that’s why WA’s traffic is so miserable despite having some of the highest transpo taxes in the U.S.

    Yeah, that’s why murderers are now given home-detention and probation despite willfullness and premeditation.

    Yeah, that’s why yer average kid can’t even count back change at a store.

    The Commie-Demos have had virtually unchallenged control in WA for 4 decades. All Gov’t run systems are in shambles: Transpo, Education, Criminal Justice.

    Taxes are super-high, results are next to nil. But. Sure as the sun will rise in the East tomorrow (thanks to the GOP-recognized Christian God), the Commie-dems want to increase taxes.

  29. 31

    YLB spews:

    30 – You are so full of crap it’s pathetic. If it wasn’t for echo chambers like (un)SP and Goldy’s lack of time to police these threads, you’d be SOL.

    Outside of cyberspace, you’re probably as untouchable as the street corner howler.

  30. 32

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:


    You have that right. There is no better example of liberal incompetance than the Seattle public schools. Only a liberal can spend over $10,000 per kid for free education and yet 40% of the parents pass it up. hehehehe

  31. 33

    Broadway Joe spews:

    Just keep on whining, Spellcheck. Fewer and fewer people buy your Rove-approved lies. Do you wonder why the GOP is so desperate to rewrite the rules on filibusters, so as few as 33% of the House or Senate can stall legislation? Because that’s all that the GOP will have left after Election Day.

    Guess what? Tom DeLay’s Permanent Majority wet-dream has become your Permanent Minority nightmare, Spellcheck.

  32. 34

    YLB spews:

    28 – I believe P.T. Barnum said there was sucker born every minute.

    That certainly applies to the listening audience of KVI and KTTH.

  33. 36


    I’m not sure that this can be pinned on Obama’s coat tails given that Obama didn’t have coat tails in the district or Illinois when his name was on the ballot in ’04. Certainly the ad helped, but how many downticket ads is he going to cut? Not may I’d guess.

  34. 37

    Daddy Love spews:

    A conservative district + a former Speaker of the House + $1.2 million in RNC money = A democrat in the House from IL-14.

    Buh-bye Dave.

  35. 38

    palamedes spews:




    Um, this is 2008. Not 1984. (Much as you might like it to be.)

    If you’re going to insult my side, at least use the ones your own people made up recently.

    (And no, I’m not going to tell what the new insults are. Go use your Alan Keyes decoder ring and maybe you’ll figure it out….)

  36. 39

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @29 In this world, Richard, there’s absolutely nothing original under the sun and you could probably find the same idea scratched into some Greek ruin if you look hard enough.

  37. 40

    Daddy Love spews:

    4 JBD

    This election is up to McCain to win or lose.

    Yeah, right. When he loses, who will you really blame? I know you won’t credit the Democrat, or blame the failed Republican policies and incompetent and criminal governance of the last eight years. What will it be? “Stabbed in the back” by the perfidy of terrorist-loving independent voters?

  38. 41

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @30 “Nixon had the Paris Peace Accord signed w/ 4 years of inauguration. JFK/LBJ were there for twice that and were responsible for over 75% of US fatalities.”

    Bullshit. LBJ sent combat troops in the spring of ’65; before that, there were only a few advisers. LBJ fought the war for 3 1/2 years (’65 until he left office in 1/69); Nixon also fought the war for 3 1/2 years (1/69 until most U.S. forces were withdrawn in ’72), and the majority of casualties occurred after 1/69.

  39. 42

    correctnotright spews:

    @30: McIdiot for McCain

    Gee – are you touting the Paris peace accords? What a freekin’ accomplishment – along with vietnamization it sure changed history. Pathetic.

    Yeah – LBJ messed up in Vietnam – and his own party rejected him.
    Why haven’t the brainless Bush followers rejected Bush for Iraq? Oh that’s right – they basically have – except for McCain. Mr. 30% approval is doing a great job.

    Umm – According to conservative Forbes magazine washington is the 3rd best run state. The traffic won’t improve here until the idiot voters approve the money for improvements -did YOU vote for the rails and roads plan? If not – then SHUT UP ’cause the traffic is YOUR fault.

    If you are looking for performance – than look to Bush:

    Worst economy in 30 years
    Worst budget deficits ever (Clinton had a surplus)
    3 billion/day nation building in Iraq
    Over 4,000 americans killed and over 30,000 wounded – for what?
    bin Ladin still free and Bush doesn’t care
    Loss of respect for the US worldwide
    Even our military is against the torture veto by Bush (and McCain)

    That you resort to calling democrats commies – well – that shows that you are back in the cold war – I’ve got news for you – it’s over and so is the GOP.

  40. 44


    I am not sure what happened with my last message. I do know I was trying to write a message parody8ing this “the Big Gipper” by calling myself the Big Dipper, but the puter hung up. When I went to post abother message, well …

    Believe what you want.

    Back at the thread. I have just posted two essays at SJ. One is by Dick Morris and, in 3essence, it says that the promise of Obama is to tear apart the Rep. Party. Thi is something that HRC lacks the support for. I know there are a lot of Rebamicans. I do not think there many Hilaricans.

    Beyond that, there is the community issue Goldy raised. Obama and Hillary will now have an opportunity to show how well they can lead the party. This is a lot more complex than just seeing who can get the loyalty of the most appratchniks. The ideal candidate this year for thge Dems will be the person who can build a precinct organization copmarable to the one Reagan built. In other words he or she needs to induce community orgnaizers of the Move-On ilk as well as Black churches, abor unions, and librul drinking clubs to come together under the DE:Obama or Dem:Clinton banner.

    Obama seems to understand this. Does Hillary? The second essay in my post is be a Hillary fan, Helen Brown. The striking focus is on the female issue. It is an odd fact that Hillary plays her gender a lot more than BHO relies in his skin. This is so even though his rise .. from poverty to presidential candidacy has a lot more dram than her rise form an affluent Republican party background. I do not mean to take this awya form her, but a focus on feminism is nto going to bring together a Reagan consituency to elect Darcy.

  41. 45

    Carter's Killer Bunny Rabbit spews:

    “(T)his is a HUGE vicotry for Democrats …” Yep. Vicotries don’t get much huger than this vicotry, that’s almost as HUGE as the prefiguring Goldycrat upset vicotry in PA before the Clinton upset of 1992, or the HUGE repub vicotry over Tom Foley in ’94.

    The awesome Jason Lewis, filling for the loathesome Limbaugh, is the latest in a lengthening long line of talkers and writers who use the words “Republicans” and “Whigs” in the same sentence.

  42. 46

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    @ 44, no worries SJ. I was just confused. Most of what TBG posts looks so much like satire, that I wasn’t sure that if it was common knowledge that you posted as TBG as satire.

  43. 47

    Broadway Joe's Inner Asshole Smells Like Phred Phelps spews:

    “LBJ fought the war for 3 1/2 years (’65 until he left office in 1/69) …” What?!

    How can that be when President Trick Dick Nixon sent Brave John Kerry to Cambodia in December 1968?

  44. 48

    Richard Pope spews:

    Roger Rabbit @ 39

    True enough, but Abraham Lincoln is famous for this attributed quotation.

    Speaking of Lincoln, he only served two years in elective office — a single term in the U.S. House, to which he was elected in 1846 — before being elected President. By contrast, Barack Obama will have served eight years in the Illinois state legislature and four years in the U.S. Senate by the time he becomes President next January.

  45. 49

    cmiklich spews:

    One at a time…

    Worst economy in 30 years. By what marker: Unemployment? Jobs are plentiful. Gas is available on any corner (I’d rather have it expensive than the way it was under Jimmy the Peanut Farmer: The Worst President in my lifetime.) My credit is good (sorry if yours sucks. Maybe you libs should pay yer bills on time!). I can walk into any car dealer and buy any car I want, any appliance I want, anything I want. And if I choose to put it on a CC, the rate is hella low. Not like the late 70’s when the interest cost more than the product!

    Worst budget deficits ever (Clinton had a surplus): Not true. They were MUCH higher under FDR. And Reagan, who had to play hell recovering this country from the debacle that was… Jimmy the Peanut Farmer.

    3 billion/day nation building in Iraq. Freedom ain’t free. You lefties think everything should just be given to you. I’d rather fight the ragheads there than here.

    Over 4,000 americans killed and over 30,000 wounded – for what? See last answer.

    bin Ladin still free and Bush doesn’t care. Not his exact quote. Bush said bin Hidin isn’t a priority. Defeating Mudlim terrorism (because basically there is no other kind) is THE PRIORITY.

    Loss of respect for the US worldwide. Now let’s think about this for 2 seconds (any longer fries a lefties brain). The “world” “loved” us on Sept 11, because WE HAD BEEN ATTACKED. We were WEAKENED. They “loved” that. The “world” hates to see a strong America. They resent our freedoms and independence. Screw the rest of the world. I’ll trade w/ ‘em, but I don’t expect nor will I give respect.

    Even our military is against the torture veto by Bush (and McCain) Again, not true. Only the retired and the lefties.

    Oh, and BTW, I have given for traffic improvements. We all (well us conservatives have anyways. We’re the ones w/ the jobs) have given $$$$$billions!! Where is it? Where did it go? Why is the budget 33% more in the last 3 years w/ NOTHING to show for it?

  46. 50

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    @ 48, but would Lincoln have answered that phone call at 3AM?

    I think not!

  47. 51

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    Now, someone try to convince me # 49 is not satire. Nobody is so stupid as to post that claptrap as anything but satire!

  48. 52

    YLB spews:

    CNR – The loon @ 49 has a non sequitur for every fact you put up.

    There’s no reasoning or negotiating with this fascist mentality.

  49. 53

    Carter's Killer Bunny Rabbit Smells Like Phred Phelps' Asshole spews:

    “Gee – are you touting the Paris peace accords? What a freekin’ accomplishment – along with vietnamization it sure changed history.”

    Actually, it was a freekin’ fine accomplishment that was turned to trash when the Watergate Baby Democrats killed funding for the peace and gave Vietnam, all of it, to the killer nappy Ho Ho Hos. That’s an object lesson, boys and girls, to those of you who might be persuaded by Obamanous platitudes to vote Democrat in November.

    McCain’s mention of ‘100 years’ was made in the clear context of multi-decade commitments to peace such as we made to Germany and Japan after 1945, to Korea after 1953, and to Bosnia/Kosovo after 1998. Of course it appears that Obama, who’s already starting to waffle on pull-out, understands this better than many of you.

    (Rabbit/Wiki claim that Vietnam was a nationalist spat before the wicked US turned it into an Alamo showdown of the Cold War. Gaddis, preeminent historian of the Cold War, demonstrates that Stalin started pulling Ho’s ‘nationalist’ strings in 1949 or 1950, while pushing nationalist Kim il Sung to start the war in Korea that American leftist I.F. Stone falsely claimed was started by us.)

  50. 54

    Carter's Killer Bunny Rabbit spews:

    Good try, 49. But check ‘Leviathan on the Right’ by Cato’s Mike Tanner before investing too much emotionl capital in trying to defend an indefensible administration, the one we have now.

  51. 55

    Concerned Liberal spews:

    Worst economy in 30 years??? This isn’t even worse than 2000?

    Thanks Clinton.

  52. 56

    cmiklich spews:

    RR: JFK had TENS OF THOUSANDS of “advisers” committed to live combat.

    And, the casualties thing. Again. You are major-league wrong.

    KIA combat 61-68 KIA combat 69-72
    1864 (1961-65) 9414 (1969)
    5008 (1966) 4221 (1970
    9378 (1967) 1380 (1971)
    14594 (1968) 300 (1972)
    ====== ======
    30844 15315

    total inc non-combat 61-68 69-72
    1864 11527
    6053 6065
    11058 2348
    16511 561
    ======= =======
    35486 20501

    The numbers clearly tell the story. More than 2 to 1 ratio for KIA’s. By 1969, many of the grunts were so whacked out on drugs they died away from the battlefield. By 1971, they were dying 1:1 away from the warzones.

    JFK & LBJ just kinda waded around in SE Asia for 8 years. Nixon got in there, made the Commie-Demos (that’s why it’s called the Democratic People’s Republic: ‘Cause it’s a dictatorship) stand up by bombing the bejeesus out of ‘em.

    It was the DEMOCRATS in Congress who flaccidly bent over and refused to honor our commmittments in SE Asia. The democrats tried to get us all killed then and they ain’t stopped yet. Not until there is no more USA.

  53. 57

    Broadway Joe spews:

    Oh Puddy the Terrorist Homophobe, just how would you know that? Mayhaps you’ve been in Fred Phelps’ ass yourself?

  54. 58

    Broadway Joe spews:

    Well, maybe that isn’t Puddy. But I doubt it. Maybe I shouldn’t be disturbing his wet-dreams about blowing up R Place…….

  55. 59

    Off Broadway spews:

    You’re in over your sheet, asshole. Or you’re in your asshole over your shit.

    Either way, hope Hutch backslides briefly into NFL dialectics and gives you a more nuanced understanding of the world we live in.

  56. 60

    Concerned Liberal spews:

    Liberals must be desperate. A year ago they were say millions are going to die in Iraq. Of course we all know how well donks predict the future. We are still waiting for the six hurricanes form 2006.

  57. 61

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    49 I hear you. Jimmy Carter has got to be considered the worst president ever. The only thing he did right was making it a cake walk for Reagan to get elected in 1980.

  58. 62

    tensor spews:

    @49: There was no need to personify the up-thread quoted essay on ‘the Rich’, but you did a great job: ‘I got mine, Jack; screw you and yours’ is indeed the sum and total of Republican ‘thought’ in this century.

    This economy is worse, by every metric, than the one Clinton achieved a decade ago — and he ran budgets with such huge surpluses that Alan Greenspan actually worried about the United States paying down our debts too quickly! That surplus was gone by 9/11, utterly squandered by a bribe-taking Republican House leadership and the Worst. President. Ever. (Get used to hearing “G.W. Bush” used in place of “Jimmy Carter”, forever and ever and ever.)

    Meanwhile, back to the main point: we could actually see a nationwide collapse of the Republican Party, dwindling to a powerless minority in both Houses of Congress, and completing transformation into a regional party, that of the old Confederacy. We who believe in positive, clean government need to push really hard, to make that Democratic majority so large that the current Bush Dogs in the lower House, and the hardline obstructionists in the Senate, cannot stop our efforts afterwards. As Goldy correctly notes, a party with little cash on hand will avoid spending another million to save Rep. Reichert from the wrath of his own constituency — even if they actually have the money — and we need to ensure his retirement.

    Meanwhile, any word on whether Our Lady of the Minneapolis Mens’ Room intends to continue his wide stance on I Da Homo’s senatorial seat? (Even his own fellow GOP senators do not want to share their bathroom with him, for obvious reasons.) Let’s see if we can get a liberal into that spot, as well!

  59. 63


    @ 49 cmiklich

    As a real conservative, I find it wierd that folks like you defend Bush as if he were one of us!

    Hell. Jimmy Carter was more of a conservative than GWB! look at the record man. Carter may have fucked up by not invading Iran when he could have done it, but he did try to get us to BUY AMERICAN energy instead of fucking Muslim oil!

    GWB wants to sell Yellowstone to some sheikh from a countruy named Bidet just so we can afford another year or so’s worth of oil. That is no conservative.

    Also look at the government he is creating in Iraq. No wonder it is failing. Did you know their constitution guarantees the rigtht to universal healthcare??? And the effin oil ..GOVERNMENT OWNED!!! No wonder it is not working! If Lou Dobs were President, he would privatize all that oil, put ti on the market and the price of oiol would drop through the floor!

    Instead of defending this Bumstead, we need to treat him as what he is a L-I-B-R-U-L.

    The only difference between the three remaining candydates is that one of them is a nasty bitch’s bitch. You get it? Hillary is the true Reagan heir here and if you were not such a fifth comumnist you would relaize that true conservatives want the Bitch to be the Prexy!

    Ofr would you rather vote for Obiwan and hope the force w3il ptotect us? I hear this guy does not even need to turn on his light saber!

    As for McCain … give me a break. A fighter pilot ditches over Hanoi and ends up in a Hilton Hotel as a “prisoner.” Do you believe this guy’s stories? And tell me how 5 years in a Commie Hotel make McCain fit to be the Commander rin Chief of the USA??

  60. 64

    Oh Blah Dee spews:

    “(A) party with little cash on hand will avoid spending another million …” The GOP has about eight times the cash on hand (mostly from ‘small’ donors, as usual) as the fat-cat ‘Crat Party, which trypically draws from tort lawyers and Hollywood plutocrats. The top-tier Democrat pres candidates are raking in big bucks, when compared to McCain, but those funds are not fungible. They don’t trickle down to the DNC where decisions must be made about buying new improved delegate-selection elections in Florida and Michigan.

    Why is screamin’ Dean uncharacteristically quiet about fixing the mess he made in two key primaries? Because he’s one silly millimeter away from being broke. Florida’s redo would cost c. $5 million. Dean’s cash-on-hand? About $2.5 million, against about $2 million in liabilities.

    Care to rethink your cutting-edge analysis?

  61. 65

    ME spews:


  62. 66

    Oh Blah Dee spews:

    errata erota: trypically = typically. Before McCain-Feingold, Cockburn at The Nation wrote often about the Democrat lock on soft money, those big bundles of plutocrat cash that Democrats used to buy elections even before the Clintons discovered the PRC cash machine. (Speaking of, word on the street is that Clinton & Clinton have found a new improved Hsu/Trie/Riady sugar daddy.)

  63. 67

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    This economy is worse, by every metric, than the one Clinton achieved a decade ago — and he ran budgets with such huge surpluses that Alan Greenspan actually worried about the United States paying down our debts too quickly!

    Name them. Unempolyment? Home ownership?? Stock Market???

  64. 69

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    So, is the answer to the economy to simply seize the assets of the wealthy and give them to those without wealth? That’s what that whole bit @ 3 was about, wasn’t it?

    Let’s start with seizing Roger’s wealth. Yeah, that’s the ticket! He’s a big successful investor. At least that’s what he tells us every damn chance he gets.

    Hey, Roger, you arrogant fuck! Why not share your wealth, asshole?

    I’d really like to see Roger drop dead. That’s such a nice thought!

  65. 70

    BushSucks spews:

    So no wonder the right wing asswipes want to change the subject here. They lost a seat that was VERY important to them and they lost it in a place that’s ALWAYS voted GOP. I’d try to change the subject too if all I had going for me was a 72-years old, batshit crazy, affair-having, lobbyist fucking, flip-flopping piece of shit like JohnBoy McCain.

  66. 71

    ME spews:


  67. 72

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    @ 69 “Politically Incorrect” is just a politically correct term for “asshole”.

  68. 75

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    The Blatantly Obvious @ 72,

    “Blatantly Obvious” is a nice term for fucking asshole.

    Stick one finger up your ass, one down your throat, and rotate, asshole!

    Eat shit and die!

  69. 76

    Bill Clinton spews:

    So no wonder the right wing asswipes want to change the subject here. They lost a seat that was VERY important to them and they lost it in a place that’s ALWAYS voted GOP. I’d try to change the subject too if all I had going for me was a 72-years old, batshit crazy, affair-having, lobbyist fucking, flip-flopping piece of shit like JohnBoy McCain.
    03/09/2008 at 5:56 pm

    At least he didn’t rape anybody.

  70. 78

    thorn spews:

    “I’d try to change the subject too if all I had going for me was a 72-years old, batshit crazy, affair-having, lobbyist fucking, flip-flopping piece of shit like JohnBoy McCain.”

    …No truer words have ever been written. It is typical of the reich wingers to change the subject when the fact of their worthlessness is obvious.

    Poor babies.

  71. 79

    Bill Clinton spews:

    But in my case it doesn’t really matter, democrats vote for racists so it’s not a big jump to vote for a rapist.

  72. 80

    Mark The Redneck-Wonk spews:

    There isn’t a nickels worth of difference between the Obamanation and The Smartest Woman In The World. Bofems running on the platform of socialism, secularism, and surrender. Bofems empty skirts with no track record of experience. One of ‘em gives a good speech and seems like a nice guy. The other is a “monster” shrill bitch who is completely unlikeable and is the most polarizing figure in the history of Murkan politics.

    How the fuck do you guys decide who to support? Seems like it comes down to whether you are a sexist or a racist.

    Must be tough…

  73. 81

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @47 Nixon wasn’t president in Dec. 1968, and Kerry wasn’t sent to Vietnam in Dec. 1968.

    Kerry went to the South China Sea aboard the USS Gridley in early 1968. The Gridley’s principal mission was picking up downed aviators. While aboard the Gridley, he volunteered for patrol boat duty, and was sent to California for training. Kerry arrived at Cam Ranh Bay in November 1968 and took command of a riverine patrol boat in the first week of December 1968. At that time, Nixon was president-elect but LBJ was still president.

  74. 82

    YLB spews:

    80 – We choose the best person for the job and that person has NO R next to his or her name.

    Now pay your fucking gambling debt and GET THE FUCK OUT!

  75. 83

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Who They’re Backing

    In August 2007, Huffington Post came up with the following list of political donations by prominent rich people:

    “. Bill Gates – $2300 Obama
    2. Warren Buffett – $4600 Obama, $4600 Clinton
    3. Sheldon Adelson – nothing
    4. Larry Ellison – nothing
    5. Paul Allen – $4600 Clinton
    6. Jim Walton – $2300 Huckabee
    7. Christy Walton, – nothing
    7. S. Robson Walton – nothing
    9. Michael Dell – nothing
    9. Alice Walton – nothing
    11. Helen Walton – nothing
    12. Sergey Brin – nothing, and nothing from his new bride Anne Wojcicki
    13. Larry Page – nothing

    George Soros has shelled out $2100 to Obama, and his ex-wife Annaliese has done the same, plus she handed over $2800 to Clinton.

    Meanwhile the Blackstone biggies are giving Republican. Steve Schwarzman has handed $4600 to Giuliani and $2300 to Romney. Co-founder and former Nixon administration member Pete Peterson has given $4600 to McCain, but also $2000 to Democrat Dodd.

    T. Boone Pickens (BP Capital Management), who made over $1 billion in 2006, gave Giuliani $2500. …

    Joining the Google guys in coming up dry, at least so far, Apple’s Steve Jobs has given nothing and Yahoo! Founder Jerry Yang and his wife both turned up with no donations.

    Finally, billionaire Carl Icahn gave Republican, but barely. The corporate raider gave $200 to Rudy, and the checks stopped there. Donald Trump has yet to give a dime, despite his children by Ivana, Don Jr, Ivanka and Eric, giving generously.”

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Pickens is the corporate raider who tried to get control of Boeing so he could break it up. Pickens has a reputation for gutting the companies he acquires.

  76. 84

    YLB spews:

    Oh by the way wingnuts, Dixon, Ill. – the birthplace of Ronald Reagan is now being represented by Bill Foster of the Democratic Party.

    Out with the corrupt, old GOP shill (Hastert) – in with the new!

    Just a preview for November.

  77. 85

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Pickens is also a bet welsher like our resident deadbeat Mark the Fucked Up Yellow Back (or is it Red Neck? or Black Toe Nail? who cares).

  78. 86

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    “On November 6, 2007, Pickens reportedly offered a million dollars to anyone who could disprove even a single charge made by the Swiftvets and POWs for Truth (SBVT), an anti-Kerry group he had supported in 2004. John Kerry, whose record of military heroism was the target of the group’s book and media campaign, sent Pickens a letter on Novemeber 16, 2007, accepting the challenge, requesting that Pickens donate the money to the Paralyzed Veterans of America should he succeed in disproving any of the SBVT claims.

    “In response to Kerry’s acceptance of the challenge, Pickens issued a letter the same day, narrowing the original challenge to the SBVT ads, and requiring Kerry to provide his Vietnam journal, all of his military records, specifically those covering the years after his active duty service, and copies of all movies and tapes made during his service. Pickens’ letter also challenged Kerry to agree to donate $1 million to the Congressional Medal of Honor Foundation, if Kerry ‘cannot prove anything in the Swift Boat ads to be untrue.’

    “On November 20, 2007, Kerry issued a letter responding to Pickens’ letter. He accused Pickens of ‘parsing and backtracking’ on his initial offer and wrote that ‘I am prepared to prove the lie and marshal all the evidence, the question is whether you are prepared to fulfill your obligation.’ He concluded that ‘the only thing remaining now is to set the date for our meeting in an appropriate forum….'”

  79. 88

    ByeByeGOP spews:

    Actually there’s a fair amount of information out there about McCain being involved in a sexual incident where rape was alleged. He allegedly paid to have it covered up. As soon as the Dems race is over – you can bet he’ll be looked at long and hard for all the dirty deeds he’s done.

    And PP-(I assume that stands for Peter over Pussy in your case) you don’t have to worry about my VD; when I fucked your sister AND your mother in the ass last night – I know I was clean.

  80. 90

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @49 You might want to read your next credit card statement while you’re writing the check. The banks are now arbitrarily raising rates to pawnshop levels on cardholders who have made all their payments on time because they’re broke and need money from anyone they can shake down.

  81. 91

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It used to be against the law for pawnshops to charge more than 21%. Now it’s routine for banks and credit card companies to charge their best customres 28%. Waytago wingnut fuckups. You’ve done to the economy what you did to Iraq, leaving a trail of bankruptcy and wreckage in your wake! I wouldn’t trust you dimwits with an empty candy wrapper.

  82. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @51 I wish I could believe that, but sadly, there’s a certain ignorant segment of the population that have convinced themselves of their own lies.

  83. 94

    Very Hairy Kerry spews:

    You’re irony impaired and blatantly oblivious, Roger. Kerry, somewhere, claimed that President Nixon sent him upriver to Cambodia for a Christmas present in 1968.

    Take up your chronology quibbles with him.

  84. 95

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @55 In 2000, gas cost $1 and inflation was barely 1%. Now gas is on its way to $4 and inflation is over 11%.

  85. 96

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Idiot @55: Tell you what. Let’s have a national referendum in the first week of November in which voters get to say whether they like Clinton’s economy or Bush’s economy better. Game?


  86. 97

    Kwell the Wabbit spews:

    83: Oh, dear. All those Billionaires for Bush dishing it out to all those Democrats. What’s a Mother to do?

  87. 98

    Moonbats Outta Hell spews:

    Rad Dyke Rabbit liked Sullivan on Obama, so he’ll heart Sullivan on monster Cruella Grendel Clinton … “The Clintons have always had a touch of the zombies about them: unkillable, they move relentlessly forward, propelled by a bloodlust for Republicans or uppity Democrats who dare to question their supremacy. You can’t escape; you can’t hide; and you can’t win. And these days, in the kinetic pace of the YouTube campaign, they are like the new 28 Days Later zombies. They come at you really quickly, like bats out of hell. Or Ohio, anyway.”

    Incredible vanishing tax returns? Saying Obama = Ken Starr? Hotdamn, this is so cool. (C’mon, Douche, accuse me of changing the subject from how John Boy McCain waved his little T-Rex arms and sold us out in ‘Nam.)

    Or better, tell us that Bill Clinton didn’t rape Juanita Broaddrick.

  88. 99

    YLB spews:

    Nothing gets the name-morphing troll’s drawers in a bunch more than the incomparable Rabbit.

    Keep up the good work Roger. Seeing these wingnuts rip their hair out is too much fun!

  89. 100

    Carter's Killer Bunny Rabbit spews:

    No, YLB, nothing gets our knickers in a knot more than YLB.

  90. 101

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    I agree that as usual, this is great news for the Republicans! (Just kidding!)

    I’m thrilled that we will now have a Ph.D. particle physicist in Congress! We need more real scientists and fewer fundamentalist cardiologists and gynecologists! Maybe this country can get some real science policy so we can keep our technological and economic edge instead of conceding it to Asia. Maybe he can edumacate some of those young-world fundie dipsticks while he’s giving speeches on the floor. Or at least mock them in the fashion they have so had coming for so long.

    But to your larger point, I have to agree with Carl that I don’t think this win had so much to do directly with Obama as it is a manifestation of the same urge in the voting public to see the backs of Republicans. I think people are so struggling now, that they are finally just getting sick and tired of rich politicians looking down their noses at their presumably inferior family values.

    I’m predicting a new round of retirements. Maybe Gordon Smith will decide it’s time to pitch it in too.

  91. 102


    @71 ME

    Typical of a psuedoconservative! Can’t talk w/o using the CAPSKEY??

    Oh . you must be right. John McCain crashed a bomber not a fighter? Is that better? Does that make him a hero?? A hero drops bombs not planes! Can you imagine Reagan spending five years in a Commie hotel without escaping? ,,, ir do you suppose Johnny likes the fish sauce and silky ladies?

    How come a few months ago you Faux repubs were dissing the Hilton Guest because he opposed your Bush? Now that he is making nice nice with the phony cowboy it is OK???

    Face it you 2 letter phony. You fakes have dumped the GOP, you traded the party of Lincoln for a gallon of gas and a compassionate conservative who seems to think the Presidency is for sale to Jews and Arabs.

    True conservatives this year will either stand this one out or vote for Hillary. Her stand against Obiwan, her support for burning the flag amendment, her opposition to NAFTA, opposition to licences for wetbacks, .. compare this with the Hanoi Hiltonite!

    Even the healthcare thing, as stupid as it is, will work to our advantage. If she does get elected, it will not be long until the US healthcare commune begs elsder brother Cuba for help! Do you think Americans will stand for that?

    Look, John McCain may not be a commie anymore, but he is the next worst thing. He even wants to give the country back to the savages after making all Mexicans US citizens! Hillary may be a full blown bitch but she is one hell of a lot more like the great Thatcher than she is like the silver haired dawdler or the mystic Obiwan.

    Maybe Dobbs will run!

  92. 105

    PP spews:


  93. 107

    PP spews:


  94. 108

    Richard Pope spews:

    Tlazolteotl @ 101

    Gordon Smith will probably be replaced by the voters of Oregon this year. But as Republican Senators go, Smith is actually pretty moderate. No one seems like a moderate, of course, in this era of scorched-earth party-line voters in Congress. But Smith has been one of the few Republicans to vote against Bush on Iraq (at least with recent votes), vote in favor of stem cell research, and support some gay rights legislation. Too bad he didn’t pick the Democrats, like his Udall cousins did.

  95. 109



    other than the obvious fact that your commie-fascist pea brain is ticked off by my posts, why would you want to fuck me? I do not hink I would want to be fucked by you and I do not even KNOW what gender you are. Gee … before I change my mind, maybe you are as beautiful as my fave … the young Sophia Loren. Gas sher was a a beaut. Tell you one thing, if Sophia were running for Prexy she would NOT need to wear a pants suit!

    Back at my post, you may have NOT understood. NONE of the candydates this year are gonna be real repubs. Are you really goning to vote for McCain…the Indian loving :hero” whose best friend is JOHN KERRY!!!!

    Ya, voting for Clinton is gonna be hard. Even if she had legs like Loren, that face explains why the muslims veil their women! BUT she ios a tough cookie. Just imagine how long she wpuld have been kept in the Hanoi Hilton by Charlie? They wold have begged Westy to take her back! Maybe offered to throw McCain into the package if Hillary had also been a guest! That is the kind of person this country needs!

    Do I, a life long TRUE Republican, like this choice? No way Pedro (or Patricia, given your hmosexual proposals)?

    The real scary thing is what in the name of the Dear, Red White and Blue Son of God, will we do if the finals are between Obiwan and McCacca? I am thinking about that Nader guy. Now I realize he is an ayrab. but at pleast a vote for him won’t make me feel guilty that I helped elect Yoda of Arisona or Obiwan of Illinois. Let the Farce be with them! .

  96. 110

    Daddy Love spews:

    “Jobs are plentiful.”
    The jobs report has reported over 100,000 net jobs lost in the last two months, after years of anemic job growth averaging 72K net jobs gained per month, only half of what is required to keep pace with the growth of the working population. That’s not “plentiful” by anyone’s measure.

    Yea, and the Dow is about 2,500 points below its high of 14,100 and is at about 11,500. BTW, that’s just 600 points over where it was in January 2001. Thank you, fucking no-growth Republicans. The rich get richer, but they’re sure as fuck not the “Producers,” becasue we’re not producing any more, the greedy fucks are just taking a bigger share of our pie.

  97. 111

    Blue John spews:

    The blue wave won’t last if the democrats that get elected don’t stand for something. The repubs that got elected fought for their corporate masters. If the Dems don’t stand for the middle class and the working class, they won’t stay.