Dems get cloture on healthcare; Sen. Cantwell casts deciding vote

With Senate Democrats securing the bare 60 votes needed to bring the healthcare reform bill to the floor for a full debate, it is important to note that had Washingtonians followed the Seattle Times advice, and elected Republican Mike McGavick over Democrat Maria Cantwell, healthcare reform would be dead. Completely and utterly dead.

So thank you, Frank Blethen, for consistently putting estate tax repeal above the welfare of your community.

Comments

  1. 1

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Blanche Lincoln said she still would support a filibuster if the so-called “public option,” a government-run insurance plan, remains in the health care bill.

  2. 2

    spews:

    I watched some of the “debate” before the vote. I wonder why the Republicons put up with their “leaders” constantly lying….

    Hey Mitch. Where did you get your 2.5 trillion number? You must have got health care reform mixed up with the cost of the Iraq War.

    It is funny how the Republicons wanted to “start over” when they didn’t do anything but block any form of reform this whole process. You mean they want to start blocking all over for the benefit of the health care provider mafia? You know, they companies that canceled the policies of 20,000 people when they got sick.

    Ask your Republicon friends if they think it is right that we pay 5 times as much for our drugs as the rest of the world pays for the same drugs. My wife’s prescription costs 9 times as much here as it did in the country she just visited. We are getting reamed.

    You want to bring down the cost of health care? Stop paying the drug cartels their ransom. Pay the Canadian price. You know we are subsidizing the rest of the world’s health care with our over payments to the drug death dealers.

  3. 3

    Puddybud Remembers Progressives Forget spews:

    Gotta love this new bill which fools like NoFactsWorthlessPositions won’t read becuz he lives on kook-aid sites…

    In an attempt to illustrate the real world consequences of reform’s taxes, Senate Republicans are pointing out a provision that would tax the makers of swine flu vaccines and drugs. The provision raises $2.3 billion annually from drug makers who sell their products through government programs.

    So here Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm’s administration fell on it’s face with the formula change delaying H1N1 Mexican Pig Flu vaccine and now they are going to tax the manufacturers of it.

    Dummocrapts… it don’t matter who they tax. They want your money!

    Remember Strech Pelosi’s bill will throw you in jail if you don’t buy insurance. Wait for it… someone will try to compare health insurance to car insurance… Now who will it be this time?

  4. 4

    Alki Postings spews:

    #3 Fool. Just an uneducated anti-fact anti-reality anti-evolution anti-science fool. You have no idea what reality is or how the world works.

    You think Democrats are magically always wrong and Republicans magically always right (and many here on the Democratic side think about their party). There’s not THAT much difference between the two parties…just on a handful of issues. If you REALLY think your “side” is magically good and the other bad, you’re a simple minded fool.

    You think Democrats will “tax” everyone, implying that if we voted for Republicans like Ronald Reagan, magically we wouldn’t be taxed, government would disappear. You’re a fool. We’ve put up with many Republican Presidents in my lifetime (Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Bush). Guess which one got rid of the IRS and reduced the size of government? Guess? The answer is none. You’re a fool. Republicans may tax you at 28% and raise the debt (Reagan, Bush and Bush) and the Democrats tax you at 30% and also raise the debt (less, or even reduced such as under Clinton). You have no grasp on reality. Just a “belief” that you’re right and everyone else is wrong.

    You’re party is almost always wrong anyway. The Democrats gave us minimum wage, Medicare, Social Security…all programs fought by wingnuts like Reagan and now universally used, overwhelmingly popular and even DEFENDED by Republicans (if they want to keep their jobs). Just keep being wrong all the time. Fight the gays, stop health care reform…whatever. History isn’t on your side.

  5. 5

    spews:

    I thought Goldman Sachs got all the pig flu vaccine?

    Hey pud. If you fall off yer horse you get to go to the hospital whether you have insurance or not. Now at least cowboys get to pay for their care.

    Imagine how good of a bill we could have if Republiconvicts were actually helping Dems to provide the best care for the most people for the least cost to the tax payers….. Yeah, and I got a bridge ta sell ya….

    Republicons have only one goal. Helping corporate scum suck us dry. Half the dems are helping them too unfortunately. Corporate death dealing scum. 120 dying per day for Wall Street’s profit!!!!

  6. 6

    ArtFart spews:

    “I wonder why the Republicons put up with their “leaders” constantly lying….”

    Because they want them to. They’re convinced that if enough people profess belief in the same thing, no matter how absurd, that it will come true.

    In other words, they’re bat shit crazy. No…beyond that. They’ve regressed to the way children play “make-believe” when they’re about four years old.

  7. 8

    X'ad spews:


    Because they want them to. They’re convinced that if enough people profess belief in the same thing, no matter how absurd, that it will come true.

    You are right, and I have never seen it put quite like that.

    Great synopsis!

    YOU GO!

  8. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Roadkill McGavick wanted waitresses to work for $2.18 an hour and buy their own health insurance. I wonder why he lost?

  9. 11

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @3 Yeah, it’s much better if drug companies spend our money on marketing expenses and CEO salaries instead of taxes, ain’t it?

  10. 12

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    There’s hardly ever 60 votes in the Senate for anything. This proves how badly the country wants health care reform. Now it’s time for GOP obstructionists to sit down and shut up.

  11. 13

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Alki farts

    You think Democrats will “tax” everyone, implying that if we voted for Republicans like Ronald Reagan, magically we wouldn’t be taxed, government would disappear.

    Ummm Pasted… Congress writes tax law. Check your US Constitution copy unless of course you got yours from Rachel Maddow.

    You have no grasp on reality.

    Projecting again fool. Why would the Senate Dummocrapts tax the hand that protects us especially with the “pandemic” occuring per Sebelius?

    Are you this stupid at your job?

    Good try dude/dame.

  12. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @13 Here’s a question for ya, puddlehead.

    Republicans spent a trillion dollars to not find the WMDS that Saddam didn’t have.

    Republicans spent another trillion dollars to not catch Osama in Afghanistan.

    Republicans spent still another trillion dollars to give tax breaks to billionaires who created no jobs.

    But Republicans think spending a trillion dollars on health care for Americans is a “scam.”

    Here’s the question:

    Why do Republicans hate Americans?

  13. 15

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 6 et al

    Al Gore on O’Reilly stated that the temperature at the center of the Earth is millions of degrees. It’s around 12,600. He lies constantly about the temperature of the earth rising. It isn’t. It’s declining or at worst staying stable the past decade. Yet we’re asked to destroy the economies of the major powers to serve this foolish dream.

    President Obama promises that he won’t support mandatory health insurance as a candidate. The current health care reform is nothing more or less than a gift to insurers and pharma. It won’t help anyone, but will significantly lower the quality of care for everyone. Thanks lefties! The messiah, his holiness, the sanctified One, says Obamacare will be that Orwellian idiocy, revenue neutral. No-one seriously believes this with an IQ above that of a carrot. No government program ever cost what it said it would or did what it set out to do with any effectiveness.

    I’m sorry, but all politicians lie. They lie for power, for personal advantage and maybe just because they’re pathalogical. Very occasionally they lie to serve what they consider to be the common interest. To confine mendacity to Republicans is either willfully stupid or willfully naive.

  14. 16

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 14

    There’s a problem with your thinking. See, budgets don’t start and end with the president. All but a few democrats voted for every expenditure you bring up, Rog.

    But to play your game-

    Democrats have spent trillions of dollars from hard working Americans to pay for the lazy and those who won’t plan.

    Democrats have engaged in a social engineering since the odious FDR to create a society of helpless permanent adolescents who won’t take responsibility for their choices and actions.

    Democrats egage in and incite class warfare with the target being those who should be commended for their service to their country. Those who produce capital, manufactured goods, and jobs are the very people that incite the ire of most far left ideologues.

    But in the real world- Both parties have got it wrong in some ways. George Bush in his pursuit of national security threatened everything that made our nation worthwhile. He threatened our privacy, he threatened our fiscal security. But I’m unclear on how the Democrats attacks on property rights and ideological swing to the far left are wildly better.

  15. 17

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    But Republicans think spending a trillion dollars on health care for Americans is a “scam.”

    No they don’t… that’s what you think they are saying… Republicans think the bill written by Reid and Pelosi is disingenuous and you know that Roger Dumb Bunny. To get these bills they had to make all these deals.

    Puddy asked Roger Dumb Bunny a while ago to name a government program that met it’s stated goal and came in at or under budget. Puddy still waiting… Still waiting. Still waiting…

    Puddy asked Roger Dumb Bunny a while ago to explain how a “program” that had to come in under $900 Billion is way over a $Trillion and counting? Puddy still waiting… Still waiting… Still waiting…

    Oh you can ask the HA arschloch about the date and time when Puddy asked these questions of Roger Dumb Bunny!

  16. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @16 “All but a few democrats voted for every expenditure you bring up, Rog.”

    Oh I see, your Republican president and Republican House and Republican Senate were against that spending, but the Democrats passed it anyway even though they were in the minority.

    Or, alternatively, your complaint seems to be that some Democrats voted like Republicans … we feel your pain, man! We wish we could do something about that, but we can’t.

  17. 19

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @17 “No they don’t… that’s what you think they are saying…”

    “Move over, Bernie Madoff. Tip your hat to a trillion-dollar scam,” said Sen. Kit Bond, R-Mo., likening the bill’s supporters to the imprisoned investor who fleeced millions.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34.....re/page/2/

    Roger Rabbit Commentary: Oops! Puddy gets his butt kicked again! It must be tough going around with a sore ass all the time.

  18. 20

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 18

    Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. You make a claim that every dollar of the supposed waste you point out is the pure unadulterated fault of Republicans.

    Should Obamacare pass the resulting chaos and destruction in our health system will be the entire fault of Democrats. This will be because Republicans won’t vote for it.

    Conversely every claim you make about Republican abuse was supported by some and in some cases many democrats.

    Should you need further clarification please don’t hesitate to misconstrue my statements again. Have a pleasant evening.

  19. 21

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Waste and fraud were endemic in the federal department responsible for student loans. It was so bad that the GAO said that no way existed to determine the assets and liabilities of that department.

    Waste and fraud have been endemic in military procurement and expenditure for as long as anyone has tracked it. Remember the $400 toilet seat?

    Waste and fraud are prevalent in medicare and medicaid. Some medical offices specialize in fleecing taxpayers for their personal profit.

    Do you folks really and honestly believe these incompentent morons should be in charge of your doctors office? Or worse, do you believe these incomparable bunglers will actually save money over the current system?

    If so you’re even more willfully ignorant than I gave you credit for.

  20. 22

    spews:

    My point at #2 was the Republicons lie, and lie, and lie about everything. It is hard to believe. What, they think no one is watching or listening? They imagine the you tubes don’t exist? Death Panels putting grandma down. Deciding who lives and who dies, kinda like UHC, Wellpoint, the Blue Shield does today…..

    But when it came time to give PHARMA a handout with the Medicare Plan D, a 1.2 trillion dollar gift to the real drug cartels, DeLay twisted G.O.P. arms till his 3 hour vote got pushed through.

    No problem giving our childrens tax money to PHARMA, with no price negotiation, but actually covering working people with health insurance is COMMUNISM.

    http://www.RepublicansAreADisease.com

  21. 23

    spews:

    #21, and when the G.O.P. controlled all 3 branches of government with the corporate friendly supreme court they did what to stem corruption, waste, fraud, and abuse lost one?

    (crickets chirping)

    It’s pretty sick how the Bush team let Wall Street rape and pillage for years, and when someone has to come clean up their mess, it is no no no no no no!!!!

    You would have to be a certified lunatic to thing the Republicons have anything to offer but total destruction.

    This bill sucks, but we will fix it. Another year of voters listening to tea baggers, Palin, Beck, and Rush, and the rest of the right wing hordes and we will pick up another batch of seats, and throw the conservative creationists to the lions where they all belong. Conservatives. What a joke. Fools, if you ask me.

    Time to move into the not so dark ages folks…

  22. 24

    spews:

    #21 You must be talking about the incompetent fools running the VA right lost in one’s own fantasies? You know. The SOCIALIST system with by far the highest “satisfaction” ratings of all types of medical care, even though it is underfunded by 5 billion or so a year….

    I would trust the VA to UHC any day. At least they won’t kick me out if I get sick.

    I have a plan. If a health care company sells someone a policy, and take their premiums for years, and then rescind their policy if the “insured” get sick, and that person dies from lack of medical care, then why don’t we charge every single employee of that “insurer” with murder?

    Now there is an idea…

  23. 25

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Actually, the reason for the rush Obama, Pelosi and Reid are pushing is because they know the lessons of history.

    They know that some independents will be turned off by a president who can’t, in 6 long months, make up his mind about what to do in Afganistan or Iraq.

    They know that a whole different set of independents will be angered by ‘hope and change’ which decimate our medical system.

    They know that a different set again just dislike the idea of any one party gaining too much influence and will vote accordingly.

    They know that some people will be downright offended by being forced to pay for the murder of innocent unborn.

    In short they know that in 2010 or 2012 the likelihood of continued Democrat control at current numbers is very low.

    But good luck with the fantasies.

  24. 26

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 23

    I honor you for your military service, despite whatever disagreements I may have with your politics.

    But consider this- I buy a policy to insure my car. I ask the agent to provide a quote for oil changes, periodic detailing, annual analysis of the car for what might go wrong, and the usual coverage for accidents. How much do you think this policy will cost?

    And this- I take my wrecked car to the Allstate agent and ask how much the coverage will be if retroactive to the time when the car was damaged. How much do you think this policy will cost?

    See, if people insured against major medical expenses it might be affordable, but they don’t. They would save significant money if they did, but they don’t.

    Look at it from the doctors’ point of view. One study says that 20% of the doctors office time is spent in billing, rebilling, and clarifying bills for insurance companies. There’s 20% that could be saved if people simply paid for the care needed as needed. They could do this by not having more kids than their salaries support, or more house, or more credit card debt.

    It’s easy, if infantile, to blame only Wall Street, or insurance companies or big business. But like anything easy it misses enough of real causes to make the prescribed cure ineffictive.

  25. 27

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @20 “You make a claim that every dollar of the supposed waste you point out is the pure unadulterated fault of Republicans.”

    It wasn’t the Easter Bunny who dreamed up that spending, sonny boy.

  26. 28

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @21 “Waste and fraud were endemic in the federal department responsible for student loans. It was so bad that the GAO said that no way existed to determine the assets and liabilities of that department.”

    Whoooo was running that department while this was going on? Hmmm? Republicans have been in charge of the federal government for most of the last 30 years, and you’re blaming how they ran it on the Democrats? You’re blowing smoke out of your ass.

  27. 29

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @24 “They know that some independents will be turned off by a president who can’t, in 6 long months, make up his mind about what to do in Afganistan or Iraq.”

    Only stupid people want Obama to mimic Bush’s rush to judgment in Iraq.

  28. 30

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Honest to God, these trolls chant Wingnut Central’s talking points without even thinking about how stupid it makes them look. They’re all robots.

  29. 31

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @25 Your comparison of auto insurance to health insurance is misplaced. It’s apples-to-oranges; not the same at all. Most people who buy auto policies don’t get in accidents; their premium dollars pay the claims of those who do. Health insurance is different because everyone who has it, uses it. Although it has some insurance attributes, it’s more in the nature of prepaid health care, with only a limited amount of actuarial risk-spreading going on.

    Health “insurers” really are financial intermediaries whose main function is to collect money for policyholders and distribute it to providers in a formulaic fashion. No true insurance company would ever write a policy against your getting sick, because everyone gets sick. Instead, they estimate how much we’re likely to spend on health care, and charge us for providing a service of handling the payment process.

    A true insurance pool doesn’t exist in the health “insurance” industry. The people with the largest health care costs — the elderly and chronically ill — are dumped on the government. Healthy young people tend to skip insurance, so they aren’t paying premiums that can be used to spread risk. What the health “insurance” industry mostly does is sell products to employers who have a financial interest in keeping employees they’ve invested in healthy. This model has failed to meet the broader needs of the American people.

    This isn’t rocket science, and doesn’t require experimenting with unproven theories or untested models. We are the laggards in the civilized world when it comes to providing health care for our citizens. Many other countries have health delivery models whose successes and failures can guide us in designing a comprehensive health care system for our own country. This is the 21st century and it’s time to replace our haphazard, patchwork, health care system that, like the street maps of many of our cities, wasn’t rationally designed but rather just happened, like the random gullies carved into hillsides by rivulents of unrestrained water.

    You wouldn’t drive on a highway without any hands on the steering wheel, letting the car go wherever physics takes it. It doesn’t make any sense to keep a health care system that runs that way, either. It’s time for America to have a purpose-designed health care system, like most other countries have had in place for a long time now.

  30. 32

    notaboomer spews:

    Sen. Cantwell casts deciding vote

    do her insurance company lobbyists know this and where to send her check?

  31. 33

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Roger, really.

    “Only stupid people want Obama to mimic Bush’s rush to judgment in Iraq.”

    Somewhere between a rush to judgement and the clear exhibition of Obamas’ incapacity to deal with military matters is a balancing point, surely.

  32. 35

    k spews:

    lost- if you wreck your car, there are two likely causes- you did something or someone did something to you. If someone did something to you, you can pursue their insurance or sue them. If you did it, tough luck. Hos does this mirror getting leukemia?

  33. 38

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 27

    Actually at the time it was Clinton in the Oval Office. But I’m not blaming him for a problem he inherited. I’m only pointing out what most people know.

    We tolerate government because we need it for certain things. A private military might be more cost effective, but would be a clear threat to the Republic, for instance. But no goverment agency ever did anything better or with more ingenuity or more focus than a competing private one.

    I wrote a few weeks ago about the Steve Scher interview with a Canadian journalist on NPR. Talking about the Canadian medical system he mentioned that Workmans Comp was using a private system because the socialized medical system was too slow. This caused problems as the best doctors were leaving for the private clinics whose equipment and compensation were so much better. This in turn wasn’t fair. Why should these doctors get to seek better pay and conditions when they owed a duty to their fellow citizens to work in a slow and inefficient one? Why should a guy injured at home have to wait for the same surgery a guy injured at work got sooner? These were his words, not mine, and mimic the concerns voiced
    by thinking Americans all across the country. Scher, by the way, had the gall to ask directly after this why the Canadian thought America was so backward in not adopting a similar system!

  34. 39

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 34

    Fair enough. So I’ll join your big pool that’s going to lower costs by insuring 40 million more people (a mathematical impossibility, but that never worried liberals) on one condition.

    I exercise and eat well. I don’t smoke and drink rarely. I had a family later than most of my peers because that was when I could properly afford children and a wife.

    So I’ll join your pool if I don’t have to pay for the single mom of 3 kids who works at Walmart, is 30 pounds overweight and eats fast food 10 times a week. I’ll join your pool if I don’t have to pay for the middle aged chain smoker with a drinking problem who thinks bowling is aerobic. Fair enough?

  35. 40

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 35,

    Wrong, so far as medical insurance is concerned. The old clunkers are a large part of the problem, and the numbers of them added to the big cost savings pool of forced insured.

  36. 41

    spews:

    re 38: No. It’s not fair enough.

    Because you refuse to accept the fact that you pay for those people you describe in the form of higher insurance payments. So, it’s OK to pay twice as much as the rest of the world does for decent health care so some private entity can sock it to you?

    Your argument is structurally the same as the motorcycle rider who feels it’s his business and his alone whether he wears a helmet or not.

    Well guess what. It he gets a brain injury that could have been avboided by wearing a helmet, we’re all going to have to pay for his care anyway.

    I wouls suspect that you are a fairly young adult from the way that you speak. You have no idea of the curveballs life can throw.

    It’s not just Blanche Dubois who sometimes has to depend on the kindness of strangers.

  37. 42

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 40

    I understand the liberal urge to take care of everyone in every circumstance. Pity and sympathy are valid responses to some circumstances. What they aren’t is good social policy.

    I don’t raise my kids to dodge the consequences of their actions. It’s tempting to want to cover for them, to take from them the burden of their choices. But it is poor parenting, and the end result is adults who can’t function in the real world.

    This is the end result of progressive policies as well. Take from people the joy and agony of their choices and you take from them something essential to maturity.

    And no, sadly, I’m no longer all that young an adult. I’ve had my share of bumps in the road, but I’ve dealt with them and learned from them. This growth experience is what you and your political compatriots would take from others, even if with all the best intentions.

  38. 43

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Okay Roger Dumb Bunny,

    One person said that.

    Puddy asked Roger Dumb Bunny a while ago to name a government program that met it’s stated goal and came in at or under budget. Puddy still waiting… Still waiting. Still waiting…

    Puddy asked Roger Dumb Bunny a while ago to explain how a “program” that had to come in under $900 Billion is way over a $Trillion and counting? Puddy still waiting… Still waiting… Still waiting…

  39. 44

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    headless@40,

    Puddy will gladly pay more for close to immediate access to MRI and CAT-SCAN hardware as needed vs waiting for months in those other countries; having the best in cancer care in the world.

    Puddy will gladly pay more for his wife to have mammograms before she turned 50. Scratch that, someone changed that.

  40. 45

    Max spews:

    It would be ironic if the Dems saved the Blethen Family Newsletter from bankruptcy by putting the brakes on health care cost increases.

  41. 47

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @32 You are a clear example of someone who criticizes merely for the sake of criticizing, without giving a moment’s thought to the actual issue.

    A president’s job is to make the difficult and complex decisions. It it was an easy decision or one that had an obvious answer, it wouldn’t have ended up on the President’s desk.

    I’ve never seen you post a comment here that indicates you know the first thing about Afghanistan, military strategy, or anything else bearing on the decision that Obama has to make.

    You’re nothing but a dilletante blowing smoke out of his ass.

  42. 48

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @32 You are a perfect example of someone who criticizes merely for the sake of criticizing, without giving a moment of thought to the actual issue. A president’s job is to make tough decisions. It this was an easy decision it wouldn’t be on his desk. What do you know about Afghanistan or military strategy? You’re a dilletante spewing a brainless talking point.

  43. 49

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @45 Why shouldn’t Landrieu’s state get $300 million of Medicaid? It’s one of America’s poorest states. It was devastated by the worst natural disaster in American history. It’s not like that money goes into her personal bank account. It will help the poor people she was elected to represent in the Senate. Give me one good reason why Louisiana shouldn’t get that additional Medicaid funding. And don’t say “deficit” because Republicans didn’t hesitate to put America in debt to fund tax cuts for billionaires.

  44. 50

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    I’ve never seen you post a comment here that indicates you know the first thing about Afghanistan, military strategy, or anything else bearing on the decision that Obama has to make.

    And you have Roger Dumb Bunny? Or, as we all know here, you goosestep to anything Dummocraptic becuz your crooks are better (your words)?

    Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm chose his March 2009 Afghan Strategy as one of the options given to him by Bush’s peeps when they met in transition December 2008. Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Chose Lt Gen McChrystal as his Agfghanistan military leader. Robert Gibbs admitted this to reporters after you and other libtardo fools attacked Cheney for mentioning it. Do you need to see your comments again? They are so easy to find dumb bunny, just like Puddy found yours on the WA State budget surplus that really wasn’t there and ylb arschlochs on the Wall Street Journal Opinion Pages.

    Gibbs admitted Cheney was telling the truth about the December 2008 Afghanistan transitional meetings, much to the chagrin of HA idiots like yourself and the other jackboots on your side. ABC News (Jake Tapper) published these remarks. Puddy placed this on HA Libtardos the day it happened. You can reach out to the HA arschloch, ylb arschloch and get the time and date replay of Puddy’s original commentary.

    Stay Stupid Roger Dumb Bunny. You are an expert.

    Puddy asked Roger Dumb Bunny a while ago to name a government program that met it’s stated goal and came in at or under budget. Puddy still waiting… Still waiting. Still waiting…

    Puddy asked Roger Dumb Bunny a while ago to explain how a “program” that had to come in under $900 Billion is way over a $Trillion and counting? Puddy still waiting… Still waiting… Still waiting…

    Well we now know .3 Billion went to Mary Landrieu and LA as a big time vote bribe.

  45. 52

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @42 “Puddy asked Roger Dumb Bunny a while ago to name a government program that met it’s stated goal and came in at or under budget.”

    Gee puddy, I missed that — probably because I don’t bother to read your repetitive and indecipherable gibberish.

    You want me to name a government program that met its stated goal and came in at budget? That’s easy — every agency I worked stayed within its budget, because when the money ran out of money, it ran out; there wasn’t any more money. As for whether government programs meet their goals, in your case, that seems to be more of a philosophical than factual question.

    Here’s an example of the intellectual dishonesty of the right. We had a huge snowstorm last winter and some folks got upset because some of the streets didn’t get plowed right away. Well guess what, Seattle taxpayers aren’t willing to pay for a vast collection of plowing equipment that’s needed only 1 or 2 days a year, if that much. Seattle isn’t Chicago; we’re not buried under snow all winter, and it’s not worth the financial investment. Yet we get a big snow storm beyond the ability of the city to respond and you idiots try to use that as proof that government is ineffective and a failure. Like I said, that’s dishonest. Seattle has made a rational investment in snow removal that presupposes we’ll ocasionally have to live with immobility for a day or two, because it’s not cost-effective to do otherwise.

    Every government program involves tradeoffs and judgment calls like this. You see puddy, Roger went to Seattle U.’s graduate school of public management and studied things like budgets and priorities and goals, etc. Roger knows it’s much easier to run a business than a government because business has one simple goal — maximizing profit — whereas government agencies usually have to simultaneously serve many different constituencies whose goals may conflict and who compete with each other for priority. There’s a reason why business people fail in government and that’s because running government is too complex for them and involves different kinds of decisionmaking. And because government managers never have enough resources, and always must make the square peg of public demands fit into the round hole of legislative appropriations, which is even more difficult than I make it sound.

    But all of this necessarily flies over your poor stupid little pudding head, because you have neither the education nor intelligence to make sense of it. I truly don’t expect you to understand any of it, even after I explain it to you, and it’s clear that you don’t.

    And because you are so clueless, and have nothing intelligent to say on the subject, you shouldn’t expect me to read your vapid and unintelligible comments.

  46. 53

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @43 And what’s your solution for a family living on $25,000 a year because they live in a so-called “right-to-work (for low wages)” state who need an MRI or CAT scan but can’t afford to pay more for it? They should fucking die? Oh, but wait, you’ve got yours so pull up the ladder and fuck everyone else! Why would anyone vote for fucks who think like you?

  47. 54

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I’ll tell you what the solution is, puddlehead. If I live under the Republican system where health care is rationed according to income and wealth, then I’m going to go to my boss and say, “I can’t support my family on what you pay, and I can’t take care of their health needs because you don’t provide any health benefits, so I need more money or I’m going to walk.” If I live in a so-called “right-to-work (for low wages)” state, I’m going to move from that state to a state where my union has half a chance of getting a better life for me and my family. I’m not going to live in a state run by cheap employers for their own benefit, and I’m not going to work for cheap employers who don’t give a shit about whether their employees are making ends meet. That’s the way it goes, puddlehead — I want a good life, too. This isn’t a one-way deal, it takes two to make a deal, and there’s going to be no deal on terms dictated by CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES. Fuck them, and fuck you.

  48. 55

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s like this, puddle. You’re a mercenary, every boss is a mercenary, so I’ve got to be a mercenary, too. If a job doesn’t serve my self-interest, I won’t work. Fuck work! Either pay me what I want, or be your own fucking coolie. I work on my terms, not your terms. That’s the way it is. It’s a hard world, puddle; better get used to it.

  49. 56

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @44 Don’t worry, if they appear to be in danger of surviving, we can always revoke their special tax breaks.

  50. 57

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @49 “And you have Roger Dumb Bunny? Or, as we all know here, you goosestep to anything Dummocraptic becuz your crooks are better (your words)?”

    It’s time for a ROGER RABBIT QUIZ, puddlehead. Caution, put on your thinking cap and don’t be hasty, lest you make a public ass of yourself (again). Ready? Here’s the question:

    What is Roger Rabbit’s position on Afghanistan?

  51. 58

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @50 Ooooooh, listen to this!!! Delbert is waxing poetic! Poor delbert can’t deal with the realities of political give-and-take. His panties are in a twist because Sen. Landrieu did what every politician from the dawn of time has done, namely, used leverage to get something for her constituents! Oh! Ow! Pain! Bribery! Felony! Call Scotland Yard!

    Maybe if you pricks had given her state the Medicaid funding it needed in the aftermath of Katrina she wouldn’t have to resort to political horsetrading to get it.

  52. 59

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    So here we have a shameless shill for the all-time champions of earmarking pontificating about a senator from one of our poorest states twisting arms to get a dollop of Medicaid for her state’s starving citizens.

  53. 60

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    If I lived in Louisiana, I’d not only vote for her, I’d shout from the rooftops, “Yes! Yes! YES!”

  54. 61

    spews:

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for Col. Sanders Favorite Chicken to answer you.

    “Puddy don’t answer questions from honky rabbits.”

  55. 62

    seabos84 spews:

    oh boy – Goldy has been using his Spreadsheet designed by the right wing to insure we keep electing pathetic sack of shit sell outs like cantwell.

    so cantwell had a good vote … YAWN.

    I guess I missed her Stu-Pak-Ing the right wing and the right wing defined fake ass ‘middle’ with an insistance on single payer cuz … she’s too busy worrying about fitting in the right wing defined fake ass ‘moderate’, ‘independent’, ‘bipartisanshit’ mould.

    So, instead of voting for cloture on alito then casting the fake vote against him, or voting for georgie’s OBVIOUS halliburton excursion to Iraq, Maria-I-Don’t-Rock-The-Boat has finally voted o.k. … after how many tens of thousands of her constituents having to WASTE their time reminding her that us peee-ons are more important than blue cross!

    Goldy – get a new spreadsheet – is it the same one with the fucking idiot math that shows Nadar Vote = Gore Vote, therefore it is Nadar’s fault that Holy Al took on Holy Joe instead of taking on the drunken spoiled frat boy and rove?

    rmm.

  56. 63

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Yet we get a big snow storm beyond the ability of the city to respond and you idiots try to use that as proof that government is ineffective and a failure.

    Wrong again Dumb Bunny. What was ineffective and a failure is your mind. You forget facts and when confronted with them you run away cand claim victory.

    We on the right were commenting in January on how the Head of Road Maintenance plowed the streets for hizzoner and the sub-hizzoner and then tried to lie about his department doing it. Even the newspapers commented on how this was an incorrect action and it cost a lot of money to go all the way to West Seattle just to give hizzoner a clear path. What we did say is how the city doesn’t look to clean the streets for the nominal bus routes. Post the comments from our side that show otherwise dumb bunny. Oh and you can’t ask ylb arschloch for help fool. This is your exercize and let’s see you futilely implement it.

  57. 64

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Roger went to Seattle U.’s graduate school of public management and studied things like budgets and priorities and goals, etc.

    Well it seems you didn’t learn much from this “education”. Everyday we view the stupid commentary you place here jockstrapping stupid Dummocraptic decisions and claiming you like your crooks better than conservative crooks. You paint everything through politics and that’s why Puddy calls you da Dumb Bunny. You haven’t proved anything with that extra education you “claim” Dumb Bunny. It’s just politics as usual with you!

  58. 65

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Roger knows it’s much easier to run a business than a government because business has one simple goal — maximizing profit

    So Dumb Bunny when rhp6033 and other HA Libtardo fools were attacking Boeing for taking the 2nd 787 line to South Carolina, what did you say? It wasn’t the above line Dumb Bunny. Seems to Puddy you make up shit to fit the day. You were screaming about Boeing screwing the union workers and how dumb the decision was. Today, you throw up that comment in another useless attempt in insipid commentary. EPIC FAIL dude.

    Need to see those Boeing 787 comments since your mind is a terrible thing?

  59. 67

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    whereas government agencies usually have to simultaneously serve many different constituencies whose goals may conflict and who compete with each other for priority.

    Oh really Dumb Bunny? It’s amazing how all the HA Libtardos are waxing poetic over Frank Chopp and his “leadership skillz” during this latest $2.5 Billion WA State budged shortfall. Were you not paying attention this past week? Were you “asleep” on the couch like you have been lately? Did “Mrs Rabbit” beat you over the head with that iron frying pan while you were looking a “nude bunny” pictures? It was you in 2008 who was saying there were no budget problems while Dino Rossi was telling the truth. Puddy already whipped out one of your stupid political comments proving your Seattle U learning was a waste of time and money.

  60. 68

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @64 Even a moron like you should be able to see the South Carolina decision wasn’t a rational business decision motivated by profit. It was pure visceral retaliation against the union for striking for better pay and working conditions. Boeing will pay for it with delays, lost orders, and perhaps even structural failures of airplanes. I can tell you right now I’m not going to fly on an airplane assembled by $14-an-hour trainees. I’m serving notice on airlines right now that if they fly a route with 787s, I’ll book a different airline. Not to get back at Boeing, but because I value my life. I could respect this decision if it was to make money, but it wasn’t, and in this case management deserves no respect. In fact, they should be fired; but I have no say in that, as I refuse to own Boeing stock. Not to get back at Boeing, but because I think it’s a lousy investment from a business standpoint.

  61. 70

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    There’s a reason why business people fail in government and that’s because running government is too complex for them and involves different kinds of decisionmaking.

    Oh really Dumb Bunny. Or is it because when a business person gets into government there are so many pet protected projects the underlings say you can’t cut. Or you have to listen to unions say you can’t cut these jobs. In business you grow or shrink the workforce (that’s called workforce modification ylb arschloch) based on the economy and what your bottom line dictates. Didn’t you learn this at Seattle U? Government on the other hand seldom shrinks, it only grows. Queen Chrissy has hired many more peeps that the budget can sustain. Instead of looking for budget cuts she proposes raising taxes. And who do those taxes affect Roger Dumb Bunny? Just look at all the millionaires who left California. Puddy has placed vital statistics on this blog about this rich flight. Ask ylb arschloch for it. He’ll help the dumb bunny remember PuddyFacts.

  62. 71

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @66 Keep displaying your ignorance so we can laugh at you, puddinghead!

    har har har har har har har har har har har

  63. 72

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s amazing how hard I have to work just to get puddy to string together three words in a coherent phrase.

  64. 74

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Of course, puddy won’t answer the question because he doesn’t have a fucking clue what my position on Afghanistan is.

  65. 75

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @69 What do you think would happen if a gummint bureaucrat went into a business and started cutting budget items he knew nothing about?

    Here’s a specific example. All the wingnutz screamed when gummint bureaucrats intervened in executive bonuses after the taxpayers bailed out the banks. Oh no, you can’t do that, they cried! We have to pay gazillions to the very execs who ran the banks into the ground because, well, just because gummint bureaucrats don’t know anything about compensation! Just give us the bailout money and let us give it to the execs instead of lending it out, because you don’t know what you’re doing!

    Sheesh.

  66. 76

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Even a moron like you should be able to see the South Carolina decision wasn’t a rational business decision motivated by profit. It was pure visceral retaliation against the union for striking for better pay and working conditions.

    Dude what are you smoking today? Did you forget what the politicians admitted after they found their voices again. Why does Puddy have to provide remedial fact services to the Dumb Bunny? Because you don’t look at things rationally, you look at everything politically. Otherwise you would have said William The Freezer Jefferson was wrong to take that $90,000. Nary a peep from Roger Dumb Bunny.

  67. 77

    paquo spews:

    @46 I’ve never seen you post a comment here that indicates you know the first thing about Afghanistan, military strategy, or anything else bearing on the decision that Obama has to make.

    Right. This is coming from someone who accused George Will of “cutting and running” when he advocated leaving Afghanistan, totally ignorant of the fact the left wing of his own party was moving quickly in the same direction and the country as a whole was turning against the war as indicated in poll after poll.

    Of course, when anyone of his own party has advocated leaving Afghanistan – and plenty have, including on these pages – our hypocritical bunny is totally silent.

    And just as a reminder – because it appears Roger Rabbit needs to be smacked across the side of the head on occasion in order to get the parts in place – his position is much more aligned with that of Republicans when it comes to Afghanistan.

    What a dumb bunny. Yea, right, Mr. Wabbit probably knows a lot about military strategy!

  68. 78

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    @69 What do you think would happen if a gummint bureaucrat went into a business and started cutting budget items he knew nothing about?

    Golly Roger Dumb Bunny you demonstrate that uncanny arcane art here everyday. You demonstrated it on post #67 with that comment about Boeing and the 2nd 787 line.

    Great job proving you fit your own attack by yourself!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

  69. 79

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Of course, puddy won’t answer the question because he doesn’t have a fucking clue what my position on Afghanistan is.

    Your stated position on Afghanistan? Well it seems paquo@76 beat Puddy to it. In fact you and ylb arschloch have similar positions on Afghanistan. When Puddy showed this to ylb arschloch how his position paralleled Condoleeza Rice (he called her a monkey lover) he went nutzo, just like you go nutzo here all the time with your insipid political commentary.

    Here it is Roger Dumb Bunny

    4. Roger Rabbit spews: Cut-And-Run Republicans Dep’t … Even weirder is conservative pundit George Will’s column calling for U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. Is he crazy? Does he want another 9/11 attack? 09/01/2009 AT 1:39 PM

    29. Roger Rabbit spews: 3 Spoken like a balless cut-and-run Republican.10/27/2009 AT 1:50 PM

    So much for the dumb cinder block comment above. When Puddy said rujax was dumber than a cinder block, Puddy thought he’s take it to heart and elevate his argument. All rujax does is scream louder!

    BTW paquo@76 is spot on. The Dummocrapts are cut and runners!

  70. 80

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Roger Dumb Bunny makes it so easy to display his perpetual business ignorance. Just remember his “I like my crooks better than your crooks” comment.

  71. 81

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Here’s a specific example. All the wingnutz screamed when gummint bureaucrats intervened in executive bonuses after the taxpayers bailed out the banks. Oh no, you can’t do that, they cried! We have to pay gazillions to the very execs who ran the banks into the ground because, well, just because gummint bureaucrats don’t know anything about compensation! Just give us the bailout money and let us give it to the execs instead of lending it out, because you don’t know what you’re doing!

    Nope you dope. Puddy said how could you attack the salaries of AIG and other companies who took the bailout and haven’t paid it back yet and allow companies who took the bailout, got their finances in order with the bailout, and then let their executives slide? The bailout loan has an interest payment associated with it. The executive salaries of those who accepted and paid it back should have been cut for the pro-rated time amount they held those bailout funds. It’s only fair yet you Roger Dumb Bunny are not about being fair! Yet, you complain about others when they aren’t fair to your polluted world view.

  72. 82

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @76 You need to smoke some real weed, dude, because those dandelion leaves are fucking up your rationality.

    “totally ignorant of the fact the left wing of his own party was moving quickly in the same direction and the country as a whole was turning against the war as indicated in poll after poll.”

    Uh wait, how does “the fact the left wing of [my] own party … and the country as a whole was turning against the war” make me ignorant of the fact they were? I don’t see how you get from point A to point B. I mean, there’s not a logical connection here. Of course I’m aware of what the left wing of my party is doing. That was the whole fucking reason for explicating my position in the first place — so dumbfucks like you wouldn’t ASS-U-ME my position is the same as theirs.

    “Of course, when anyone of his own party has advocated leaving Afghanistan – and plenty have, including on these pages – our hypocritical bunny is totally silent.”

    Uh no, dumbshit; if you look at the record, you’ll see that I stated a position at variance with theirs, which by necessary implication criticizes what they’re advocating. I disagree with them; that’s why I posted it. And this makes me “hypocritical”? How?

    “And just as a reminder – because it appears Roger Rabbit needs to be smacked across the side of the head … ”

    Feel free to try that anytime you think you’re man enough.

    ” … his position is much more aligned with that of Republicans when it comes to Afghanistan.”

    So, as I understand it, you think I should be smacked across the head because I’ve adopted what is essentially the Republican position on the issue? This is the only thing you’ve said that makes any sense — that I should get clobbered for thinking like a Republican — except this, too, falls apart on examination because, in fact, my position on Afghanistan is very different from the Republican position on Afghanistan.

    The Republican position on Afghanistan was to starve that military effort of manpower and materiel in order to pursue their recreational war in Iraq. I’ve criticized the GOPers for years for doing that. As I pointed out in this blog 5 years ago, it didn’t make any damn sense to send 160,000 men to Iraq, which didn’t threaten or attack us, and only 11,000 men to Afghanistan, which is a much larger country and which harbored the terrorists who did attack us. That, I argued, was like responding to Pearl Harbor by invading Australia.

    No, I’m not for pulling out of Afghanistan, because as a former combat soldier I don’t like to pay twice for the same real estate. I believe if we pull out, we’ll have to go back in, and spend lives all over again to get back in. I value the lives of our service men and women enough that I don’t care for that kind of duplication.

    I understand though, perhaps in a way you do not, that a military effort with no chance of succeeding is merely futile bloodletting and continuing the carnage for no purpose is both stupid and morally wrong. The question on President Obama’s desk is something of this nature. If we can’t win in Afghanistan, then I don’t see how you can justify a continued or increased military involvement there.

    Where I break with the advocates of pulling out (I don’t think it’s accurate to say “with my party” because there isn’t a unanimity of opinion among Democrats on this issue) is that I don’t think we’re at that point. I see it as a management problem. After 8 years of lousy management by the previous administration, we can’t expect our efforts in Afghanistan to come up roses in just six months. It will take a while to turn this around, but given what’s at stake, success should be given a fair chance.

    The simple fact is the Republicans, under Bush, did everything wrong. Not enough men; no clearly defined goals; a hazily-defined mission. The logical approach is to clean up that mess and see what happens. Because the war effort in Afghanistan was undermanned and undersupplied to begin with, increasing the troop level is a no-brainer. Give them the equipment, logistic support, and aerial and naval support they need. Put in a new general who can define the mission and focus the effort. Candidate Obama was on the right track when he said during the campaign he would pursue the enemy into Pakistan’s frontier areas whether that government invited him or not — for which Republican critics stupidly criticized him in purely kneejerk fashion and in complete disregard of sound military strategy. I guess they’d rather refight the Vietnam war, complete with sanctuaries, but having been there and done that, I’m against being militarily stupid for political expendiency. On this score, Republicans and their shrill wingnut shriekers deserve the roundest of condemnations.

    You say my position is “aligned with that of Republicans,” but you clearly have not thought this through. Republicans did everything wrong; I’m in favor of staying in Afghanistan, but doing it right. There’s a huge difference, a vast gulf, between what the Republicans did and what I think should be done. My position is do it, but do it right. And that’s a total rejection of the Republicans and their Afghanistan clusterfuck. Only you’re too stupid to know it.

  73. 83

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @78 “Your stated position on Afghanistan? Well it seems paquo@76 beat Puddy to it.”

    Yeah, it appears he did. I posted the question at 8:06 AM and paquo replied at 9:16 AM, from which we can surmise that 70 minutes wasn’t long enough for you to think of a response. The only reasonable conclusion is that you didn’t know what my position on Afghanistan is.

    Of course, it must be pointed out that paquo didn’t get it right. He screwed the pooch when he said my position “is aligned with the Republicans.” See above, particularly my characterization of the Republican approach as a “clusterfuck.” But he deserves partial credit for at least knowing that I’m in favor of trying to win this war, which is more than you apparently were aware of.

  74. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @80 How could I attack the salaries of AIG execs? Easy. I’m a taxpayer, and we taxpayers own 80% of the company, so it’s our company and we have every right to have a say in how much the people who work for us are paid.

  75. 85

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Poor puddy needs paquo to do his thinking for him, because he can’t figure out stuff himself.

  76. 87

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Wrong again dumb bunny. Puddy was chronologically marching down your insipid commentary responding with facts to your memory farts. Puddy easily found it because Puddy knew about the time you posted it. That comment was from a 5 comment thread Dumb Bunny. It stood out like a sore thumb.

    Regarding paquo, they got it right. How do you know paquo is a he fool? Projecting again? Here is a quick search on We must leave Afghanistan. View the leftist thought “luminaries’.

    See Roger Dumb Bunny Puddy has your comments down…

    8. Roger Rabbit spews:
    @6 (continued) I think Republicans were more than fair to the terrorists. Now let’s kick their asses; play time is over.

  77. 88

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @78 “BTW paquo@76 is spot on. The Dummocrapts are cut and runners”

    Uh, where do you get that, in what I posted? Just curious …

  78. 89

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    Here’s another of your fine comments Roger Dumb Bunny…

    7. Roger Rabbit spews:
    @1 What would a Republican know about defending a nation and fighting tyranny?

    See, e.g.:

    1. Pre-war Republican isolationism, 1930s
    2. Selling oil to Hitler a la Prescott Bush
    3. Losing Vietnam War, 1972
    4. 9/11/2001
    5. Mired in Iraq, 2003 – 2009
    6. Mired in Afghanistan, 2001 – 2009

    Yeah, Republicans are the military experts, all right …

  79. 91

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    74. Roger Rabbit spews:
    wingnutz screamed when gummint bureaucrats intervened in executive bonuses after the taxpayers bailed out the banks. Oh no, you can’t do that, they cried! We have to pay gazillions to the very execs who ran the banks into the ground because, well, just because gummint bureaucrats don’t know anything about compensation!

     
    This proves you don’t understand what the “wingnutz” were complaining about.
     
    The point wasn’t about do the executives deserve their pay, the point was should the government dictate their pay.
     
    Get it now?

  80. 92

    Marvin Stamn spews:

  81. 93

    Steve spews:

    @16 Lost sez: “to pay for the lazy”

    Would that be “the lazy poor” you’ve written about before? Do you really believe that to be born into poverty is to be born “lazy”?

  82. 94

    paquo spews:

    @81 Uh no, dumbshit; if you look at the record, you’ll see that I stated a position at variance with theirs, which by necessary implication criticizes what they’re advocating.

    What a lame bunny. You call Will out for “cutting and running” for his advocating leaving, but your criticism is “implicit” when it comes to those on these pages who advocate leaving. The fact of the matter is you don’t have the courage to speak out against members of your own party. Who’s kidding who? That’s hypocrisy, and you can’t mask it by endless blather.

    I don’t think it’s accurate to say “with my party” because there isn’t a unanimity of opinion among Democrats on this issue

    Far and away opposition to the war is coming from Democrats and from the left wing of your party in particular. And you had no idea of this when you accused Will of “cutting and running,” since at worst he was in step with the majority of your party.

    And it’s “implicit” in your criticism of Will that you’re also accusing many members of your own party of “cutting and running.”

    Except, you don’t have the courage to say that. What a wuss.

  83. 95

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    Re 92

    Absolutely not. Nor do I believe poverty to be a moral failing. I do believe that everyone has a duty to live within their means. I do believe that no-one has the right to the fruit of another mans’ labor.

    My parents weren’t wealthy. My mother earned her college degree while raising 6 children. My father got his first and had it easier, I guess. They had only 4 while he was in college. He did this while working as a carpenter in the Carter recession when work paid poorly. They never took one dime of welfare or charity. They never asked someone else to pay their mortgage. They never asked someone else to feed their children. The result? They have 6 children and 12 grandkids who believe in hard work and honesty. They raised 6 responsible productive adults who don’t live on the federal or state dole, but on the largely professional jobs they have earned. 4 of the 6 have college degrees and professional jobs. One other owns his own business buying and selling real estate while everyone else is panicking. The last is about to finish his degree in accounting.

    So I understand coming up from a hard start. Like I said earlier, I understand pity and sympathy. It just makes very poor public policy.

  84. 97

    lostinaseaofblue spews:

    I am “targeting” those who use their poor choices to extort from others the means for their survival. I am targeting those who choose to have children they can’t afford, then ask others to pay for the upkeep of those children. I am targeting those who sign a mortgage in poor faith then look for ways to dishonor the contract or for the government to underwrite the note. I am targeting those who complain bitterly about the labor market and exploitative management but do nothing to get a better education or better training to make themselves more marketable.

    I am targeting those with special vigor who raise their children to do the same and undermine what made this country great. I am targeting public policy which steals with force of unjust law from those who do produce and gives the fruit of that theft to those who won’t.

  85. 99

    Steve spews:

    @96 So much for the lazy poor. What have you to say about the lazy rich? Or is that an unfortunate turn of phrase I used there, “the lazy rich”?

  86. 100

    spews:

    And because you are so clueless, and have nothing intelligent to say on the subject, you shouldn’t expect me to read your vapid and unintelligible comments.

    Stupes – PWNED by the Rabbit..

    Gotta shop for the big feast on Thursday. Have a great day..

    Right wing FIENDS!

  87. 101

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @86: “8. Roger Rabbit spews: @6 (continued) I think Republicans were more than fair to the terrorists. Now let’s kick their asses; play time is over.”

    Ah yes, I’m glad you found that one, puddled. Roger doesn’t fuck around with terrorists. I say bomb ‘em back to the Stone Age! That’s my position on terrorism. But is there a point somewhere in your comment @86? I can’t find it.

  88. 102

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @93 “The fact of the matter is you don’t have the courage to speak out against members of your own party.”

    WTF?

  89. 105

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @96 “I am targeting those who choose to have children they can’t afford”

    How nice — you’re going to legislate away mindless sex. Good luck with that.

    You wanna talk about “poor choices to extort from others”? Okay, let’s start with your premise that all tax-supported government programs are “extortion” and see where it takes us. The Bush administration spent a billion bucks on teaching abstinence to teens. The result was unplanned teen pregnancies went up.

    Why should anyone trust you Republicans with anything? I sure don’t!

  90. 106

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    95. Steve spews:
    So when you wrote about “the lazy poor”, Lost, who are you targeting?

     
    I’m not sure about poor, but lazy would apply to ylb.
     
    If his wife wasn’t supporting him, I guess poor would also apply to ylb.

  91. 107

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    The gist of this thread is that puddy didn’t know what my position on Afghanistan is, and after I told him, he industriously dug up some of my comments criticizing Republicans for being too easy on terrorists. I guess that’s supposed to prove I don’t criticize Democrats?

    Listen, compared to Bush and his GOP clown gang, even pacifists could do better, so why would I criticize an improvement of the situation?

    If the object of this exercise is to pry a criticism of Democrats out of me, my response is let’s clean up the godawful mess the GOPers left behind first, and worry about Democrats later.

  92. 108

    paquo spews:

    @106 If the object of this exercise is to pry a criticism of Democrats out of me, my response is let’s clean up the godawful mess the GOPers left behind first, and worry about Democrats later.

    Boy, what spin!

    Bunny is all over George Will for “cutting and running” from Afghanistan, but can’s muster the balls to say the same of Dems in his party who far and away take the same position among the parties. His criticism is “implied” in their case according to his lame spin.

    But, listen up: if you advocate leaving Afghanistan as many Democrats and HA family have, you’re cutting and running according to Roger Rabbit. He just can’t muster the courage to say so to your face (but he’ll imply it!).

    What a blowhard, what a hypocrite, what a wuss.

  93. 109

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    “I do believe that no-one has the right to the fruit of another mans’ labor.”

    Communist.

  94. 110

    Proud To Be An Ass spews:

    “…the point was should the government dictate their pay.”

    When the government loans them hundreds of billions of dollars, and guarantees their flimsy assets to the tune of a couple trillion, why yes, such a move would be both prudent and responsible.

  95. 111

    mark spews:

    54 I’d never hire you and I’ve hired hundreds over the years. Your the bitter employee with a big theft problem because of your jealousy of others who have the balls to make something of their lives instead of whining from 9-5. Fucking loser.

  96. 112

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @54 Of course you wouldn’t hire me, because I wouldn’t work for you. In fact, I wouldn’t work for anyone at this point. Why should I? I don’t need a job! You think I’m jealous? Of who? People who have to go to work tomorrow because they’re in debt up to their asses, while I sleep in? Wake me for afternoon cocktails.

  97. 113

    the captain spews:

    @111….loser….blowhard….attention whore….

    you fit all three to a tee. well done.

  98. 115

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @112 I’m a Democratic party hack and liberal propagandist. Who were you expecting? The Easter Bunny? I don’t do colored eggs. That’s a job, and I don’t work. I only do things for fun.

  99. 117

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    109. Proud To Be An Ass spews:
    “…the point was should the government dictate their pay.”
     
    When the government loans them hundreds of billions of dollars

     
    If a company is failing and can’t get a loan from a bank, why should the government bail them out?
     
    As we now know, despite what oba-mao told us about his economic plans and unemployment, he screwed up. Would we be better off if oba-mao didn’t borrow billions of $ and then “loan” it away. If it is a loan, do you have a link to the loan agreement? I would like to see when it will be paid back. It should be easy to find the loan agreement, after all, oba-mao promised us transparency.
     

    both prudent and responsible

     
    By borrowing money only to “loan” a failing company billions of dollars without a loan agreement?
     
    In your personal life, would you borrow money only to loan it to someone that isn’t financially solvent? If no, does that prove you are not as smart as oba-mao?

  100. 118

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @115 Hey, I never claimed to be the God’s gift to Mother Earth. I’m just a feral rabbit living in a public park. But at least I’m not a deserter like Bush, a draft dodger like Cheney, or a Republican traitor who talks about overthrowing our elected government. I’m Stars and Stripes clear through!

  101. 119

    cyn spews:

    @110 Your the bitter employee

    Isn’t Rabbit? He went to work for government because he wanted to be in public service he says. But after 45 years of working his butt off – his words – he got very little for his efforts in terms of hard core $$. After everything was said and done serving the public wasn’t enough satisfaction.

    Apparently, working in the private sector where the real money could be made as an attorney if you were good enough wasn’t an option.

  102. 121

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @118 Let’s see, you guys let terrorists attack us, lost a war against a shithole third world country, and bankrupted the whole fucking planet — and you wanna lecture us about success?

  103. 122

    Rabbit's guilty conscience spews:

    @120 you guys lost a war

    Rabbit likes to talk up the fact he was in a front line unit in Vietnam. The truly courageous souls in that shameful war that killed so many on both sides – for what? – were those who risked jail by refusing to go.

    Any surprise that our wittle bunny wabbit belittles those who say no war today?

  104. 124

    Puddybud Remembers Libtardos Forget spews:

    The gist of this thread is that puddy didn’t know what my position on Afghanistan is, and after I told him, he industriously dug up some of my comments criticizing Republicans for being too easy on terrorists. I guess that’s supposed to prove I don’t criticize Democrats?

    Wrong fool! The gist is

    Dems get cloture on healthcare; Sen. Cantwell casts deciding vote

    Puddy produced your comments on Afghanistan before you stated your position

    Puddy posted at 9:26 AM.

    You posted at 9:48 AM. 22 minutes later.

    EPIC FAIL FOOL!

    You can’t deal with being exposed for the fool you are with comments you forget you post!

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Just like your Sept 2008 comment on no WA State budget problem. They always come back to haunt the Dumb Bunny with his own commentary.

    Dumb Bunny kicked to the HA Libtardo curb!

    Roger Dumb Bunny… another chronological idiot!

    You make stupid stupid Roger Dumb Bunny!

  105. 125

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    120. Roger Rabbit spews:
    @118 Let’s see, you guys let terrorists attack us, lost a war against a shithole third world country, and bankrupted the whole fucking planet — and you wanna lecture us about success?

     
    That’s why people voted for CHANGE.
     
    Gitmo is still open.
    Troops still in iraq.
    Still losing a “war of necessity”
    Terrorist attack AT a military base inside the continental united states.
    national debt not been reduced
    national debt has been increased
    Still not addressing man-made-global-warming
     
    When does the promised CHANGE actually happen?

  106. 128

    Little YLB spews:

    Daddy, is that you, back on HA after watching football all day while Mommy cleaned the house and made dinner before getting ready for work tomorrow so she can pay the bills ALL BY HERSELF?

  107. 130

    Marvin Stamn spews:

    125. my ancestors came from Europe spews:
    paquo
    Is it Sue? Is it daves? Is it a total right wing phony baloney?

     
    Getting paranoid?
     
    Seeing that vast right-wing conspiracy around every corner?

  108. 132

    spews:

    When does the promised CHANGE actually happen?

    Keep checking back. It’ll happen as long as people keep up the pressure.

    This country went to hell in a handbasket over the last 8 years before last Jan 20. It won’t be fixed in 11 months or 4 years even.

  109. 133

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @121 Oh I see … Bush, Cheney, and all the other Republican deserters and draft dodgers are now “courageous souls” who “risked jail by refusing to go.” Not to worry, these guys were in no danger of being prosecuted; they had “Get Out Of Jail Free” cards.

  110. 134

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @123 When puddy tries to change the subject, that’s always a sure sign he’s holding his ass in his hands.

  111. 135

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @129 A bunch of flies buzzing around an outhouse isn’t necessarily a conspiracy. It may be nothing more than a bunch of flies who like the smell of shit.

  112. 136

    spews:

    133. Roger Rabbit spews:

    @123 When puddy tries to change the subject, that’s always a sure sign he’s holding his ass in his hands.

    11/22/2009 at 11:11 pm

    #123 was the comment equivalent of a hanging curve ball.

    Hit it here ROGER!!!

    LOLOL

    (it’s too easy sometimes, doncha think?)

  113. 137

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @135 A few more meatballs like that one and I’ll be the Babe Ruth of political blogging! =:-D<

  114. 138

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I must admit this work isn’t very challenging. We need better trolls, but morons like puddy are all they’ve got left, because anyone with half a brain jumped ship with the rest of the rats when the water came up through the floorboards.

  115. 139

    DanielS spews:

    @137

    Yea, maybe if you could ever get some basic facts correct, beginning with comment numbers! Meanwhile, Rujax’s “blog” is badly in need of updates (and at this point anything will suffice!).

    What a pair, Rabbit and Rujax!

  116. 140

    correctnotright spews:

    @125 wow, Stramn is back

    I love how Stamn is openly displaying how absolutely stupid he/she is.

    Stamn spews:

    Gitmo is still open.
    Troops still in iraq.
    Still losing a “war of necessity”
    Terrorist attack AT a military base inside the continental united states.
    national debt not been reduced
    national debt has been increased
    Still not addressing man-made-global-warming

    Let’s take that apart piece by piece and actually cover the change that has happened and not just the surface level idiocy that Stamn puts out (Stamn is the typical republican idiot who cannot go more than an inch deep below the surface due to lack of frontal lobe capacity).

    1. Gitmo: We have a President (Bush) who allowed and encouraged illegal torture and embarassed us in front of the world.

    Change: Torture is OUT, period. Git mo is being closed and we are using the justice system. WQe have newfound resepct throughout the world.

    2. Iraq: We had a President who invaded a country under false pretenses – an unnecessary attack that wasted lives.

    Change: We are pulling out of Iraq in an orderly way to fix the mess that Bush got us in.

    3. Afghanistan: We had a President (Bush) who failed to go after the real perpetrators of 9/11 (even though he said he would chase them to the ends of the earth, he later said that bin Laden was not important). Bush pulled the troops and the support from Afghanistan and allowed the Taliban to regroup and build in that country.

    Change: We are refocusing on Afghanistan (not Iraq). Unfortunately, Bush screwed things up so badly there that it may not be winnable now.

    4. National debt not reduced:

    Hmm, how stupid a comment is this. Bush set record deficits and caused the worst economic situation since the Great Depression. Only a complete idiot like Stamn and the other republican trogolodytes would CUT government spending in a depression – things would be a lot worse right now if we had not passed the stimulus bill.

  117. 141

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @139 For all our minor typographical faults, we aren’t a threat to the republic like you guys are.

  118. 142

    DanielS spews:

    @141

    Minor? Typographical? Now that’s a favorable review when it’s been long apparent that being buried in state government for decades as a “lawyer” did little for your broader set of skills, especially those having anything to do with numbers!

    And when Rabbit has to depend upon Rujax for back-up you KNOW matters are desperate!