Concerned citizens crowd workshop on sewer overflow reduction alternatives
Winston Churchill once quipped that “Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried,” and nothing bears that out more than Seattle Public Utilities’ packed workshop at the Rainier Community Center last night, where angry citizens gathered to loudly voice their (sometimes ill-informed) concerns over the North Henderson Combined Sewer Overflow Reduction Project.
That’s right, over sixty citizens gathered on a Wednesday night to debate storm water overflow reduction alternatives, a heartening and surprising display of grassroots democracy in action. Unfortunately, a handful of attendees quickly disrupted the meeting out of misplaced fear that SPU was intent on seizing their private property (by far the least likely outcome of any project of this sort), and/or in staunch opposition to spending any rate payer dollars to reduce the 100 million gallons of raw sewage contaminated storm water Seattle dumps into its waterways every year. One woman even angrily stormed out of the meeting after being informed that yes, she would be required to pay for this citywide project whether she wanted to or not. Sigh.
I suppose it’s unfair to refer to these angry citizens as “teabaggers,” as I did in a tweet last night, for there didn’t seem to be anything organized or overtly political about their actions. But in their knee-jerk assumption that government was out to get them and their wallets, and in their willingness to disrupt the proceedings for everybody else, in the service of loudly voicing their own personal objections, they sure did appear to embody the spirit of the Tea Party movement.
And, just like the teabaggers, they didn’t seem to want to let any facts get in the way of their outrage. This was the fourth such meeting with SPU I’ve attended in my efforts to help safeguard the interests of tiny Martha Washington Park, and it was more than a little frustrating to waste so much of my time on some angry newcomer yelling about tunneling and soil conditions, when by this point in the process it is already clear that the preferred alternative for North Henderson is unlikely to include any tunnels at all. As for that angry woman and the others who objected that Lake Washington was already “clean enough,” had they bothered to listen to what the SPU reps were telling them, they might have understood that yes, their objections were being heard… but they were objecting to the wrong people. SPU didn’t establish the policy to reduce storm water overflow to one event per year per outlet—the EPA and the state legislature did—and SPU must meet this mandate or risk legal and financial consequences.
I guess the point is, democracy is hard. It’s complicated. It’s messy. It’s inefficient… perhaps, especially at the community level. But it becomes nearly impossible when citizens enter it so profoundly skeptical and distrustful of the democratic process itself.
….so profoundly skeptical and distrustful of the democratic process itself.
We have a system where the fiction that we are a democracy is baked into the cake, but the outcomes are skewed toward the rich. It’s little wonder then, that the “little folks” get angrily irrational when they are presented with the bill. This is the basic injustice that fuels the anger of the tea partiers and wingnuts (see Deer Hunting With Jesus).
Our economic system is driven to equate “social good” with material accummulation. This is utterly wrong. Externalities and their terrible costs get ignored. The rich buy the politicians and get economic rents and tax breaks.
And the little folks? They get subjected to repeated requests to either get their moral house in order or simply ‘take one for the team’.
I have personally excoriated my local legislative electeds to go out on the limb and demand higher taxes on those who benefit most from this lunacy and are most able to pay. But no, our state dems would rather govern a rotten system pretending to do ‘good stuff’ at the margins rather than ‘take one for the team’ themselves.
It’s their turn.*
*The short sided who will chide me for ‘making the perfect the enemy of the good’ can stick it up their ass.
short sighted…..oops. If you have short sides, see your barber.
Proud @1,
If by “little folks” you mean owners of Lake Washington waterfront….
@ 3
Yeah, those with upper six figure incomes. The middle management set. Like Bill Gates for example.
“Democracy is hard. It’s complicated.”
That’s why folks like voting for idiots. They don’t want nuance. They want someone like Bush to just boil all the incredible intertwined complexities of a modern world down to “evil doers”.
I’m sorry, but life (and the infrastructure of a major city) is complicated. If you’re smart enough to understand it, fine, just have the decency the shut the hell up and let folks who DO understand it carry on and do the work.
This meeting is a prime example. Idiots yelling about things that have NOTHING to do with the meeting topics. Things that are not under these folks legal control or authority. I know no one wants to pay for stuff, and everyone wants the infrastructure of the world to just work magically for free, but it never has…ever. From the first roman road that “tore through” some farmers field, we’ve been dealing with this…get over it.
So these folks that “stormed out” they thought it perfectly fine to create storm water run off, but not OK to pay to clean up their own mess?
Frankly, I think it’s outrageous that Seattle hasn’t taken action yet.
Goldy @ 3,
Well yeah, if they’re under 5′-4″ tall. Short rich people really set me off :)
The cost is to covered by SPU rate hikes, bonds (i.e., deferred taxes), and grants. The folks right on the waterfront won’t even notice…the rest of the ratepayers–not so much.
A healthy society does not blink at paying these costs. They are real. Alas, we do not appear to have such a society. Not that that is any big suprise. But really, these types of costs would be easier to bear if the burden was more equitably shared.
@7: Really nice blog, Derek. I’m impressed.
To further clarify: “But really, these types of costs would be easier to bear if both the burdens and rewards of living in a complex industrialized society were more equitably shared.
If you want to watch somebody’s ox get gored, attend a bunch of local planning agency meetings….you’d be suprised.
Wow, what a shocker–ill-informed citizens loudly voicing their opinions in a public forum. In America, no less.
some americans strongly believe that horsesass.org is the epitome of a sewer overflowing and goldstein is the biggest, smelliest turd
Reminds me of one of my favorite Bertrand Russell quotes:
“A democrat need not believe that the majority will always reach a wise decision. He should however believe in the necessity of accepting the decision of the majority, be it wise or unwise, until such a time that the majority reaches another decision.”
This is one reason why I prefer the emphasis be placed on carefully examining, and then voting for, civic-minded representatives who consider the issues in detail, and vote accordingly. This is why we are a Democratic Republic, rather than a complete democracy.
The folks who occassionally pop in to demand a voice in the process, who haven’t taken the time to truly understand the issues and the underlying facts and ramifications, don’t contribute much to the process.
@13 Really? Name one.
@12: That happens daily at the Congressional level.
@13: What? All five or six of you huddled in fear in your mama’s basement? Your irrelevancy is heartening.
Never forget that 40% of Americans believe Joan of Arc was Noah’s wife.
All this talk is nice, and everything, but what about the storm water runoff? What can Seattle do to reduce it? Besides mega-engineering projects, I suspect there are alternatives.
‘….sewer overflow reduction alternatives’
Well, since Goldstein will now be over at The Stranger being Dan Savage’s bitch, I guess there will indeed be a “sewer reduction” after all, here at Horsesass. What will poor little YLB and Roger “OCD Senility” Wabbit do all day now?
LMFAO!!
Problem is people come out very seldom to engage elected officials. They should get in the habit of doing so more often. Fact is we need to change the form of government we use in these parts to enable the public to do exactly that.
Here’s an alternative.
“Town Meeting is Brookline’s Legislative arm of government. It consists of 240 elected town meeting members plus the members of the Board of Selectmen, and any state representative or state senator who resides in Brookline. In addition, the Town Moderator, who presides over town meeting, and the Town Clerk, who acts secretary, are voting members. The 240 are elected by precinct, with 15 members elected from each of the town’s sixteen precincts. The members are elected for staggered, 3-year terms so that 5 members are elected from each precinct each year in the May annual town election.
Town meeting is responsible for passing a balanced annual town budget, and enacts all town bylaws. An Annual Town Meeting is held in the spring to enact the following year’s budget, plus whatever other matters are placed on the Town Meeting Warrant, either by the Seletmen or by citizen petition. The Annual Town Meeting is usually held the last week in May or the first week in June. A Special Town Meeting is held each fall, usually in November, to deal with any budget changes, zoning bylaw amendments or other matters placed on the warrant. See the Town Meeting Members Handbook (PDF) for more information on Town Meeting and its procedures.
Although only elected town meeting members may vote and propose motions, the public is invited to attend and the sessions are carried live on Brookline Access Television.”
http://www.brooklinema.gov/ind.....Itemid=404
Man, I’ve done many public meetings. There are crazy’s out there, certain you are there to steal their money or kill their children with your project.
And I’ve left a meeting or two looking over my sholder to be sure one of them wasn’t waiting.
Hey, ya gotta expect ’em to be upset when gummint takes away their God-given freedom to shit in the gutters like their ancestors did in the 1500s.
Say, didn’t plague kill a whole bunch of people in the 1500s? Or was that cholera?
@1 I’m with you. It’s time we started calling some of these Democrats by their right name — Republicans.
@5 “From the first roman road that “tore through” some farmers field, we’ve been dealing with this…get over it.”
The Romans didn’t have this kind of trouble. They just killed the farmer, raped his wife, and made his kids lay the stones for the road.
@13 Yeah, and they also advocate shooting people who disagree with them, starting a civil war, and hope terrorists down more airliners.
@21 Same thing I’ve always done. Put turds like you in their place.
Yeah, it was carried by wild rodents!
Heh heh heh!
These are tough times for millions of people. The trouble began when a bunch of private firms managed to skirt existing regulations and create Frankenstein financial products that damn near destroyed the economy. As a result, lots of people lost their jobs, lots of people lost their retirement, and a lot of small businesses went under. And while the economy overall is doing better, with stocks up and corporations back to profitability, millions of individuals are learning to do with less. So, who are people naturally mad at? Why, the government, of course!
The Bay Citizen
Bonus Payments to City Retirees Are Drawing IreBy ELIZABETH LESLY STEVENS
Published: January 20, 2011
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While California State declares a fiscal Emergency……
As San Francisco struggles under ballooning pension and health care costs, the city’s retirees will receive unexpected cost-of-living bonuses totaling $170 million. The city’s anticipated budget deficit for the coming year is $360 million.
What’s wrong with this picture….Damnocrats running wild
Sewage systems are tricky. Even God had to run them through recreation areas.
# 32: Do you really want us to compare pension payments, earned through decades of hard work, with the bonuses given this past couple of years to Wall Street firms for doing little except playing golf and having expense-account dinners with clients?
Well, here’s a couple of basis for comparison.
(1) Democrats support workers who have already earned their pension according to the rules in place at the time they did the work. Republicans want to change the rules to take away that already-earned money after the fact.
(2) Republicans support even greater tax breaks for wall street bankers and investment firms, even though taxpayer money bailed them out of the whole they dug for themselves, dragging the rest of us along with them. Democrats actually insisted on limits to salaries and bonuses to executives of bailed-out firms, and prefer to keep the tax rates in effect in 2000 for their income level.
(3) The pension fund “bonuses” (as you called them) to public sector retirees are just a fraction of the bonuses paid by even one wall street firm in just this past year.