Finally, some commonsense commentary in the Seattle Times regarding a new Sonics arena. Of course, it’s coming from Danny Westneat, not the editorial board, but you can’t have everything.
The Sonics and the public could go 50-50 on the cost of renovating KeyArena. Say the price is up to $250 million. That’s $125 million each.
The Sonics were going to spend at least that much in Renton, anyway. For the public, it’s a quarter-of-a-billion dollars less than Renton.
It would leave us with just one basketball arena — happily, the one we’ve already got. We could drop the sales tax on restaurants. Imagine: a tax canceled! There would be zero state money needed. The entire public share could be paid for by extending local hotel/motel and car-rental taxes.
Seattle Center would get a new arena, with money to pay off the old arena’s debt — lifting a white elephant from the city’s back. There’s even money left over, $35 million that could be used for arts or recreation projects around the county.
Best, it would keep the teams where they belong. In Seattle. Even Chris Van Dyk, backer of Initiative 91 limiting sports subsidies, said he could support such a meet-in-the-middle deal. And that it could comply with the initiative.
I don’t mean to offend Danny or anything, but at least on this issue, it turns out we actually think alike. Just a few days ago I suggested that if the Sonics are really serious about wanting to stay in Seattle, there are many other options they could explore. For example, “Seattle voters might be willing to accept a Key Arena renovation proposal that included a more typical 40/60 public/private financing plan.”
I suggested 40/60, and Danny came back with 50/50. Perhaps the final split might be 45/55? That’s what professional negotiators technically refer to as a “COMPROMISE.”
Danny is skeptical that the Sonics ownership and our political leaders have what it takes to work this out like adults, so perhaps Danny and I should just sit down at the table together and bang out the details of this deal ourselves? We’re already so close. Then Chris Van Dyk can put it on the ballot, and if it passes, the Sonics are free to take it or leave it.
I’m not saying I’d necessarily vote for such a proposal, but a good first step towards convincing me would be for Clay Bennett and his consortium of Oklahoma City businessmen to stop talking ultimatum, and start talking business.
(I fail to understand WHY we would want the Sonics in Seattle?
Renton is just as or more accessible. The arena would benefit the Renton area but likely loses money for Seattle when all costs are added in.
Assuming this is true, why not let the city of Renjton create a LID and pay for and benefit from the whole thing?
NOPE. THE OKC GUYS WON’T GO FOR IT. THEY WANT A PALACE IN THE SUBURBS WITH PLENTY OF FREEWAY ACCESS, PARKING AND WILLING CUSTOMER BASE. SEATTLE CENTER IS TAPPED OUT IN THOSE DEPARTMENTS.
THEY WANT THE STATE TO PICK UP AS MUCH OF THE TAB FOR THE BUILDING AS THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH. THEY WANT TO RAKE IN ALL OF THE PROFIT.
JUST LIKE IT’S BEEN DONE IN OTHER PLACES. THEY FOLLOW THE DICTUM OF RICH BASTARDS EVERYWHERE:
I WANT WHAT’S COMING TO ME.
Not one fucking Producer penny for this stoopd fucking stadium. Enough already !!
Just pack your shit and head off to Shelbyville.
I suggested 40/60, and Danny came back with 50/50. Perhaps the final split might be 45/55? That’s what professional negotiators technically refer to as a “COMPROMISE.”
Goldy that is not a win/win plan the city gets more than it deserves. The Mayor should cough up all the money like Paul Allen does when the city needs something but it can’t afford. Hell renovates the building and put the poor and homeless there instead of in tent cities on the Eastside. Let Renton have their dream Team and you folks drive there on Mayor Nickels pothole roads with the money Seattle saves. Let’s not compromise at all or maybe just a little name Sonics arena after Seattle Mayor for doing everybody a favor by moving it to Renton. Name it Pothole Nickels for his great management of Seattle Streets. Maybe Tent City Nickels for forcing the poor to the Eastside into tents instead of vacated building that the City owns. Oh Goldy a professional negotiator usually provides a different kind service than making COMPROMISES that will fail at a later date. Your friends at City Hall believe only in extortion amounting in large denomination of money like what Reverent Jessie Jackson is famous for today. But maybe that will get you to build a light rail to Renton down Martin Luther so the poor can watch the Sonics play basketball for the first time. Now you can justify doing that like you did tent cities on the Eastside and the Seattle elitist would be willing to do that if they poor had a one way ticket to Renton. Yes Goldy we all Love you even if your friends don’t.
When tolls are started on both bridges, the Seattle Center and the theaters around it will suffer losses of participation.
4 of us had season tickets to the rep for the past 5+ years. It now costs $8.00 – $10.00 to park there, and with an additional $10.00 toll on the bridges, we jointly decided yesterday not to renew our season tickets.
The I guarantee tolls will take a major toll on business revenues, sporting revenues, and tax collection in Seattle.
Not one fucking Producer penny
HEY STOOPID REDNECK – THOSE OKC GUYS ARE YOUR PEEPS. THEY’RE “PRODUCERS”. YOU SHOULD BE HIGH FIVING THEM.
SAME THING WITH THAT “FRANCE” FAMILY WHO RUNS NASCAR.
LMAO!!!!
ALMOST FORGOT.
PAY YOUR FUCKING GAMBLING DEBT WELSHER AND GTFO!!!
My goodness, klake, take a breath and take your meds. There are so many errors in your post its difficult to know where to start. First of all, Paul Allen paying his way!!! He strong-armed the city to get his personal streetcar at lake Union. Look at the Quest Field deal. He DID NOT pay the whole freight.
And tent city deliberately moved to the Eastside to bring the issue to those cities. There is more support in Seattle than on the Eastside and those Tent Cities are political statements as much as anything.
But hey, rave on!
Naah, They Weren’t Up To No Good
Bush: Claims executive privilege
Rove: 1000’s of e-mails erased
Gonzales: Says “I can’t recall” 71 times
Goodling: Takes 5th amendment
Yeah, right!
@1 “Assuming this is true, why not let the city of Renjton create a LID and pay for and benefit from the whole thing?”
Because they’d had to pay for it themselves, dummy!
Renton city officials are playing the same game Bennett is — they’re scheming to extract their $100 million contribution from the Seattle folks who voted “hell no!”
You see, Renton’s “share” would come from county-wide taxes; and with only 2.7% of the county’s population, that means 97% of the $100 mil will come from OPM.*
And Bennett, of course, won’t put up the team’s $100 mil “share” either. That will come from selling naming rights and other OPM.
* Other people’s money.
@2 “THEY WANT A PALACE IN THE SUBURBS WITH PLENTY OF FREEWAY ACCESS, PARKING AND WILLING CUSTOMER BASE.”
Not really. They want the locals to say “no” so they have an excuse to break their lease and move the teams to OKC, where their arrival will be greeted with a ticker tape parade, adulation, and fawning suckers throwing cash at their feet. But they’ll take the $500 million palace if we’re foolish enough to stick them with it.
@3 Okay. We’ll give them YOUR money, and the producers can keep theirs.
P.S., pay your fucking gambling debt, welsher!
Looks like klake got started on the Thunderbird a bit early today.
Goldy, the one major drawback to this suggestion is that Mr. Bennett has shown absolutely no desire to keep the team in Seattle.
When the proposal for a half-billion-dollar basketball palace was brought up by Mr. Bennett, many folks, yours truly included, simply assumed that it was a ploy to keep him from having to be the “heavy” in the move.
He could simply blame state and local politicians, giving them a black eye on the way out. Considering his political leanings, that would be a “twofer” for him. I doubt that anyone was more surprised that he was when the legislature didn’t simply reject the whole idea out of hand. If somehow they went along, there would have been some other problem.
Barring new ownership, the Sonics are headed to Oklahoma. That was decided the moment Mr. Bennett bought the team.
If there is sufficient demand for NBA basketball in Seattle to adequately support a team, then some businessman that is not simply using the team as a hobby will buy a team and put it here. Economics 101. If there is a demand, someone will step up to fill it.
But it won’t be Mr. Bennett. He’s looking at this as a way to become a local hero in his hometown by bringing a professional sports franchise home. It isn’t a business decision, so business arguments have no bearing on the discussion.
@5 “I guarantee tolls will take a major toll on business revenues, sporting revenues, and tax collection in Seattle.”
That’s what I’ve been saying! WSDOT doesn’t have any clue what a $10 toll will do to traffic volume on the bridges — it’ll kill it, while 405 will be more congested than ever.
A $10 toll will turn Seattle into an isolated land spit with limited access to the mainland.
flaky klake crashes and burns … again
jch is a nazi
Personally I think if they can raise $200 million from that tax it should be used to plug the 520 funding gap. We need that bridge more than we need Clay Bennett dancing on the sidelines while the city’s elite (nobody else can afford tickets) watch little kids toss around a big ball.
John @14,
I agree with you. I’ve been saying from the start that I don’t think Bennett has any intention of keeping the team here — hence his ridiculous half billion dollar proposal. He just wants to make a show of it so as to keep fans in their seats until the lease is up.
Which is all the more reason to keep the pressure on him to come to the table and negotiate. We need to give him every opportunity to prove cynics like me and you wrong, and the naive and/or disingenuous editors at the Times right. And I would love to eat crow, if that is what is best for the region.
off topic, but enjoy….you guys sure could use a laugh……..
****Subject: so one day Jesse Jackson died
One day in the future, Jesse Jackson has a
heart-attack and dies. He
immediately goes to hell, where the devil is
waiting for him. “I don’t know
what to do here,” says the devil. “You are on my
list, but I have no room
for you. You definitely have to stay here, so
I’ll tell you what I’m going
to do. I’ve got a couple of folks here who
weren’t quite as bad as you. I’ll
let one of them go, but you have to take their
place. I’ll even let YOU
decide who leaves.”
Jesse thought that sounded like the best he could
do, so the devil opened
the door to the first room. In it, were Ted
Kennedy and a large pool of
water. He kept diving in, and surfacing, empty
handed. Over, and over, and
over he dove in And surfaced with nothing. Such
was his fate in hell.
“No,” Jesse said. “I don’t think so. I’m not a
good swimmer, and I don’t
think I could do that all day long.”
The devil led him to the door of the next room.
In it was Al Gore with a
sledgehammer and a room full of rocks. All he did
was swinging that hammer,
time after time after time.
“No, this is no good, I’ve got this problem with
my shoulder. I Would be in
constant agony if all I could do was break rocks
all day,” said Jesse.
The devil opened a third door. Through it, Jesse
saw Bill Clinton, lying on
the bed, his arms tied over his head, and his
legs restrained in a
spread-eagle pose. Bent over him was Monica
Lewinsky, doing what she’ll only
be remembered for.
Jesse looked at this in shocked disbelief, and
finally he said, “Yeah man, I
can handle this.”
The devil smiled and said . . . . . . . .
(This is priceless)
“OK, Monica, you’re free to go.”
Goldy wants to give away $125 million of our taxpayer money to some conservative Republican businessmen from Oklahoma!
Why are 3/4 of the Democrats in the state legislature backing this travesty, while 3/4 of Republicans are opposed?
You can always count on Democrats to throw away the taxpayers’ money, even if they are forced to give it to Republicans.
Roger Rabbit @ 15
“A $10 toll will turn Seattle into an isolated land spit with limited access to the mainland.”
I won’t be complaining about this! Serves Seattle right!
Yes, a $10 toll will stop driving, just like $3 GAS.
Oh never mind.
so they have an excuse to break their lease and move the teams to OKC,
I’M A LITTLE SKEPTICAL ABOUT THAT. IF PUGET SOUND IS A SMALL MARKET FOR AN NBA TEAM THEN OKC HAS TO BE MUCH SMALLER.
I THINK THEY JUST WANT TO PUMP AND DUMP.
GHOST:
HA! HA! HA! VERY HUMOROUS!!
CONGRATS ON YOUR ADMISSION TO THE RIGHT WING CREEP’S LOUNGE.
AND YOU’RE SO LATE EIGHTIES, EARLY NINETIES. JACKSON HAS NO PULL WITH DEMS THESE DAYS. HILLARY WILL TRY HARD FOR THE WHITE HOUSE BUT WILL LIKELY FALL SHORT. AND BILL? HE CAN STILL GIVE A GOOD SPEECH BUT HE WILL LIKELY BE ECLIPSED BY THE DEM WHO FINALLY DOES GRAB THE BRASS RING.
AND A DEM WILL WIN – YOUR PARTY IS SINKING IN THE MUD OF IT’S OWN ARROGANCE AND CORRUPTION. IT USED TO BE SMUG BUT THAT SMUGNESS HAS TURNED TO PANIC AND DEPRESSION.
I KNOW IT’S IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU BUT TRY GROWING UP.
Wow. Goldy proposes a way to call Mr. Bennett’s bluff and prevent him from giving the legislature a black eye while taking his team to Oklahoma, and Mr. Pope has already determined that it is a taxpayer givaway that 3/4 of the Democrats are in favor of, with 3/4 of the Republicans opposed.
Quick polling, Mr. Pope! You must have some fast fingers on the dialing to be able to poll the entire legislature so fast. Or, is it simply your knowledge that no matter what any Democrat proposes, Mr. Esser will be able to keep about 3/4 of the Republicans in line against it?
You and Mr. Esser must have a direct line installed for you to have this information so fast. Amazing.
I’m still waiting to hear what kind of a deal you made with Mr. Esser, for you to have gone completely over to being nothing more than a parrot for the Republican talking points.
Certainly he got your soul, but what else did you give him for another chance at public office?
Oh, and do you get your soul back when you lose?
@23 K, why do you assume gas will stay $3?
A $10 toll won’t deter the lawyers and business people who commute from the eastside’s bedroom suburbs, but what about the $12 an hour pink collars and blue collars who are already scratching to pay the rent? Add $200 a month of non-tax-deductible expenses to their monthly commute — and they’re gone.
A businessman can deduct a $30 million jet with oprating costs of $6,000 an hour as a “business expense.”
A stock market gambler or real estate flipper is taxed at a capital gains rate half of what wages are taxed.
A $12 an hour cubicle slave who has to spend $200 a month for tolls, another $300 for parking, another $200 for gas, and $100 (or more) for office-appropriate work clothing can’t deduct a fucking thing.
Employers shouldn’t be surprised if all the cubicle slaves get up from the desks, walk out, and don’t come back.
Roger Rabbit @ 28
Don’t you mean $400 per month? They would have to make a round-trip accross Lake Washington each time — $10 each way makes $20 per day.
I will assume 20 days per month of commuting, even though a year has 52 weeks and a month has 4-1/3 weeks on average. Cut that down from 260 to 240 actual working days, once you take off about 20 working days for public holiday and vacations.
John Barelli @ 26
That is from a representative sampling of the legislature. Actually, a senatorial sampling. The Senate Ways and Means Committee has 20 members (about 14% of the total number of members from both houses). 9 of the 12 Democrats (or 75%)voted in favor of the $500 million giveaway proposal, while only 2 of the 8 Republicans (or 25%) supported it.
Oh, and Mrs. Gregoire will support whatever taxpayer giveaway the Democrats can get through the legislature. And if they can’t do it during the regular session, then Mrs. Gregoire will probably call a special session if she can get enough Democrat support.
Yos Lib Bro @ 25
When is AlGore going to enter the race? He is probably the only Democrat with a really good chance of winning if nominated.
Mr. Pope:
So, we’re not talking about Goldy’s proposal, but about the now defunct half-billion-dollar boondoggle that the legislature very publicly decided not to pursue, despite the help of the chair of the Ways and Means Committee. The Governor has already announced (back on April 17th) that she will not call the legislature back to reconsider the matter.
So, you just got an old copy of the talking points. You really should check the date on those things. You must not be as close to Mr. Esser as I had assumed. Either that, or the flunky that has the task of keeping those talking points up to date is not doing his job.
really good chance of winning if nominated.
WINNING AGAINST WHO?
MCCAIN – MR. “STAY THE COURSE”
ROMNEY – DON’T MAKE ME LAUGH!
BROWNBACK – PRAISE BE!
GUILIANI – CAN WE GET SOME KERIK WITH THAT?
Yos
Newt…. every fucking state.
YOS IDIOTO……. gawd almighty…..are you this dense, man?
it was a joke. A J-O-K-E.
see…i told you you needed a laugh.
Here’s the ratio:
0%/100%.
Sonic owner’s bidness pardner is a significant contributor to the Swift Boat Asshole Liars.
Ok, Christmasghost. The joke is on us, and it isn’t really my kind of joke.
But… It was pretty funny.
Huh? Bennett wants to build his crystal palace “in a suburban location with excellent freeway access”….in RENTON????? Ya mean that lovely stretch of 405 between 167 and Sunset Blvd where the Boeing commuters duke it out with the frustrated golfers from Maple Valley and the nerds on the way to Fry’s drooling over their impending techno-bargains? Where the HOV lane switches from one side to the other? Huh?
Has the guy ever even been there??? Maybe it was in a stretch limo after someone hooked him up with some Belltown hottie to give him a bj along the way. Perhaps he climaxed while going through the S-curves. Can’t think of any other explanation for him thinking so fondly of that location. Oh, yeah…there’s one other: He’s playing us all for a bunch of stupid bumpkins.
I can still weigh in on this issue, because it was ongoing before I moved, so here’s my thoughts:
I find myself in the odd position of agreeing with MTR. No one should give the carpetbaggers a dime. Let Clayboy take his teams to the Great Red Neck of America, I could care less. Just cut the deal with the NBA to keep the rights to the names and histories of the teams, that’s all anyone in Washington should do. Perhaps a time will come when building a new arena will be a reasonable idea. Maybe then we can bring a franchise back to Seattle.
But I refuse to shed tears over the Sonics and Storm leaving Seattle. If I still lived in the area, I’d suggest a boycott of both teams for their last season. If one isn’t already in the works.