Could the Mariners exit the Cactus League over Arizona’s bush league immigration laws?

Fifteen Major League Baseball teams now make Arizona’s Cactus League the annual home of their spring training, setting up MLB as the national organization that in both visibility and economic impact, could perhaps play the biggest role in pressuring the state to repeal its repressive, unconstitutional and un-American new immigration law.

And our own Seattle Mariners have an opportunity to take the lead.

According to a 2009 report from the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sports, 27 percent of MLB players are Latino, by far the largest percentage of any American major league sport, while 28 percent of MLB players are foreign born. And in recent years team marketing departments have embraced the Hispanic fans who have been driving up attendance at ballparks around the nation.

So why should MLB and its teams continue to shower such immense economic largesse on a state that just passed laws intended to harass nearly a third of its players and the fastest growing segment of its fan base?

When then-Gov. Evan Mecham revoked the state’s recognition of Martin Luther King Jr. Day in 1987, and Arizona voters failed to approve it at the polls in 1990, the National Football League struck back on behalf of its diverse roster by moving the 1993 Super Bowl from Phoenix to Pasadena. MLB’s 2011 All Star Game is currently scheduled for Phoenix, and there is already pressure building for the league to make a similar gesture.

But the Mariners and the other Cactus League teams don’t need to wait for MLB to act. Las Vegas has been attempting to lure spring training camps for years, and even the mere act of publicly pursuing such negotiations would send a shockwave through local, tourism-dependent economies across Arizona. Likewise, there are municipalities throughout Florida that would be eager lure back a few teams who left the Grapefruit League for dryer climes.

Earlier this month, nearly 10,000 people rallied just a few blocks from Safeco Field, demanding humane immigration reform… a crowd many times the size of the largest teabagger protest (despite the lack of comparable press coverage). This is an issue that resonates with a majority of Washington’s population, both economically and morally, nearly one in six of which are Latino or Asian and 12.3% foreign born. Immigrants comprise 14.2% of Washington’s workforce, and pay 13.2% of state and local taxes.

By standing up now against Arizona’s oppressive and offensive new law, Mariners’ management and players would send a clear message to the fastest growing segment of their own fan base that they stand with them on this controversial issue, and that America’s pastime will not bend to such profoundly un-American political sentiment.

Comments

  1. 1

    brewer spews:

    Your best blog post in the history of HorsesAss.
    Aside from the main points of the article, you are right about Vegas. Big casinos would dole out millions to build new state of the art spring training facilities for MLB clubs to attract people to Vegas during the slowest month of the year. (Late Feb thru March). Mariners should jump on the opportunity now.

  2. 2

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    it will never happen….all the fuss will blow over in a few weeks, one way or another…

  3. 4

    delbert spews:

    Illegal immigrant. It’s right there in the name.

    ILLEGAL, as in criminal.

    How many of you are donating money to keep emergency rooms open in Arizona and southern California? The deluge of illegal immigrants are killing the ERs in that area.

  4. 5

    sarge spews:

    @2)

    This is not blowing over until the law is repealed.

    I assume Mariners derive some revenue from spring training? That will surely decline if they stay in Arizona.

    Sports franchises have demonstrated time and again that they will leave town at the drop of a hat if it is in their economic interest.

  5. 6

    spews:

    it will never happen

    Heh.. And those gub’mint employees in AZ don’t celebrate MLK day.

    Nevada has no state income tax unlike AZ. So take AZ local politician’s stupidity coupled with the right wing tax hating arguments – this bodes quite well for a major move of sports teams.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer State.

  6. 7

    spews:

    How many of you are donating money to keep emergency rooms open

    How many right wingers are boycotting companies that hire undocumented immigrants?

    Like Smithfield? Like the Weissbach company???

    It too simple – don’t hire them – THEY WON”T COME.

  7. 9

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @5….sure, believe what you want.

    the so-called “boycott” of Arizona will be minor at best…lots of fuss on the networks, which we all know only lasts a few weeks at best.

    I say good for Arizona – perhaps this will spur the feds to actually get off their ass and do something for a change.

  8. 10

    SamIAm spews:

    No, the fuss won’t blow over in a few weeks. Once the law is enforced and the roundups start, it’ll be a huge mess. Just wait until the first legal resident is harassed – can you say lawsuit? Then there’s the little clause that allows the racists to sue if they feel the law isn’t being enforced enough, which is what some of the citizens of Flagstaff, AZ are saying they will do now that the City Council has come out against the bill. This whole bill is a lose-lose situation for Arizona. But then, that’s what happens when racists like Russell Pearce (R-Racist, Mesa-Mormon) are good buddies with white supremacists like J.T. Ready, who attends Neo-Nazi celebrations. Their hatred gets in the way of rational thought. J.T. Ready even tried to run for the AZ House at one point, and his interviews are pretty much on par with most of the rest of the GOP in AZ - hates brown people, Jews, the U.S. gov’t, women who are not subservient, and public education, but loves God and his guns.
    Arizona deserves punishment – and I say this as one who grew up in AZ and loves my home state. But the wingers have gone too far. Along with the racism, and the unregulated carrying of guns, the spinelessly pathetic Jan Brewer – fake governor who was appointed, not elected – just signed legislation preventing insurers from covering abortion. AZ has officially gone over the right wing edge.

  9. 12

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @6….so you are saying that Nevada has an advantage because it has no state income tax?

    hhmm….THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT GETTING ONE IN WASHINGTON?

  10. 13

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @10…hey sam, why dont you take a trip to arizona some time and see how bad they got it.

    its easy for you retards in washington to talk the big game about illegal immigration not being a problem – go to one of the SW states and see the shit they deal with – it just might open your eyes.

    those states are going broke dealing with this problem.

    all you little smug bastards sitting in your downtown condo or west seattle house dont have a fucking clue about the rest of the country.

    oh, and goldy, lets stop the lie right here and now: we all know there wasnt anything close to 10,000 people at the “I support illegals” march. Not even half that showed up…so you can stop with your Joseph Goebbels propaganda machine now..

  11. 14

    rhp6033 spews:

    Delbert missing the point entirely….

    “Illegal immigrant. It’s right there in the name.
    ILLEGAL, as in criminal.”

    Just like Bush insisting that the Patriot Act still required him to get a court order before wiretapping (it didn’t), and that we needn’t be worried because they were only going to use it against terrorists anyway (who decides if they are terrorists, and is that before or after they listen in to your private calls for a few months?).

    The whole point is that the Arizona law requires a person to produce proof of citizenship or legal status in the U.S. upon demand. But everyone knows that it isn’t the white suburban housewife that’s going to be inconvenienced. It’s the hispanic, who’s ancestors might have lived in Arizona for the past three hundred years, who’s going to get pulled over three times driving to work every day, or who has to pull out the paperwork everytime they are “reported” by some irksome neighbor, jealous or ambitious co-worker, etc.

    Eventually some officer is going to decide that the paperwork looks “suspicious” and the victim then gets hauled off to jail for a day while they “check him out” – causing him to lose a day of work each time, and perhaps get fired from his job, miss an important appointment, etc.

    Let’s see how much Delbert likes it if they decide that HE should have to produce proof of citizenship each time an officer passes him by. First couple of times, probably no problem, except for the inconvenience of having to carry around a certified copy of a birth certificate. Around the fifth or sixth time a week, or the third time in a single day, he’s going to be crying awfully loud about the Nazi-like state he’s living in.

  12. 16

    Rujax! spews:

    If I were an Hispanic ball player I would refuse to play in Arizona.

    So there you are…down there and up here and everywhere else in this country. No longer the land of the free. No longer the refuge from opression. No longer the land of opportunity where the best and brightest, most har-working, visionary and amgitious from all over the world will come to realize their dream and buildd their fortune.

    Not any more. Tea-baggers birthers and tenthers…assholes of all reactionary stripes. radical haters fueled by inflammatory rhetoric from Fox News and Limbaugh and Savage and Beck and the rest of the small minded cowards.

    Nice job assholes.

  13. 17

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @14….like it or not, this law is a DIRECT RESULT of our federal govt failing in its duty to secure the border of this nation and effectively deal with the problem of illegal immigration.

    Its not the govt or people of arizona who should be derided, its the piece of shit federal govt, in both parties, who have not done a fucking thing in 25 years and have let illegal immigration get out of control – and in the process DESTROY good paying jobs that US citizens used to have…on top of being a financial burden for state and local govts..

  14. 18

    SamIAm spews:

    @13 Did you read the part about where I said I am FROM Arizona? I know about the issues all too well. Part of the reason Arizona is in the economic straits that it is can be traced to other anti-illegal legislation. Rather than acknowledging that undocumented workers pump a lot of money into the economy – renting homes, buying groceries, working – and trying to find a workable solution, they started the blame and punish game. There were some less harsh solutions proposed, but too many legislators were caught up in their hate and wouldn’t hear of it. So now AZ has the lost revenue from undocumented workers and their families, plus the greed of the GOP who allowed unrestricted building permits (because government regulations are bad) creating a housing glut, and who are also opposed to raising taxes in any form even if it is to maintain crucial government services like snow clearing or road repair (ADOT had to sell vehicles and properties just to make ends meet for this year).
    So yes, I do have a clue about the rest of the country, and no, I don’t own a condo in WA – or even a house – so you can shut the fuck up.

  15. 19

    rhp6033 spews:

    As for the Mariners, they can’t go alone, they need other teams to play, and the whole idea of spring training in leagues in a single city is to cut down on travel costs and time. So the entire Cactus League would have to make the decision more or less jointly.

    Las Vegas might be an interesting alternative – lots of hotel space, other attractions to draw visitors, etc. But the one advantage of having spring training in a relatively small town is that the players can concentrate on baseball, at least for a few weeks. Spring training in Vegas would probably be a tabloid dream, lots of opportunities for temptation and gossip and photos.

  16. 21

    delbert spews:

    @14

    You missed the point, you already have to be talking to the cop FOR SOME OTHER LEGITIMATE REASON to be asked for proof of citizenship/residency.

    “It’s the hispanic, who’s ancestors might have lived in Arizona for the past three hundred years, who’s going to get pulled over three times driving to work every day”

    Bullshit. This guy isn’t getting pulled over because:
    1) he doesn’t look shifty/look away from the cop
    2) doesn’t act guilty/speed away
    3) drives decent car because he’s worked his ass off and made something of himself.
    4) the cop knows him/recognizes the car. This happens in small towns all over.

    You assholes assume all cops are white, power-mad assholes, just looking for a reason to bash brown heads. You’re wrong and racist to boot.

  17. 22

    Rujax! spews:

    17. Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @14….like it or not, this law is a DIRECT RESULT of our federal govt failing in its duty to secure the border of this nation and effectively deal with the problem of illegal immigration.

    Its not the govt or people of arizona who should be derided, its the piece of shit federal govt, in both parties, who have not done a fucking thing in 25 years and have let illegal immigration get out of control – and in the process DESTROY good paying jobs that US citizens used to have…on top of being a financial burden for state and local govts..

    04/28/2010 at 10:47 am

    …so what IS it fuckhead???

    Is the Federal Government bad or is it good? Does the Federal Government have a function or not? You and your dopey friends can’t have this both ways. You can’t elect clowns that make sure the Gonermment won’t function then say “Look…I told you it doesn’t work.” Maybe you should get grover Norquist’s dick out of your mouth.

  18. 23

    SamIAm spews:

    @17 The jobs most of the undocumented workers “take” from American workers are shit jobs that most American workers won’t even do. A friend runs a landscaping business in Phx and since the crackdown, can’t find steady workers for his business, whereas previously he’d had the same team of (undocumented) workers for at least 7 years. Funny – even in an economic downturn, where you’d think any job would be better than no job – he has “white” workers turn him down on his $8.50 an hour job because the work is “too hard” for the money, while the Latino workers jump at the chance. In college, I worked manufacturing jobs in the summer all throughout Phoenix – I was one of the few “white” people there, and the temp agency said it was because most of them thought that the physical type of work was beneath them. Ask the farmer in Yuma who picks his lettuce – and I can guarantee you there won’t be many – if any – white folks out there in the hot sun picking lettuce. That is the work that the undocumented workers have “stolen” from the American workers. Most of the undocumented workers I’ve known would not go to the ER for treatment, because they don’t want to be caught and sent back. They tend to find help within the Latino community – people who were doctors or nurses in Mexico or Central America but who are now menial workers in a nursing home. There are exceptions, of course, but most avoid attracting attention to themselves and typically use the public health centers where they can pay cash and not have questions asked.
    I do have to wonder who Arizona will blame for all of its problems once there are no more Latino undocumented workers around.

  19. 24

    Rujax! spews:

    21. delbert spews:

    @14

    You missed the point, you already have to be talking to the cop FOR SOME OTHER LEGITIMATE REASON to be asked for proof of citizenship/residency.

    “It’s the hispanic, who’s ancestors might have lived in Arizona for the past three hundred years, who’s going to get pulled over three times driving to work every day”

    Bullshit. This guy isn’t getting pulled over because:
    1) he doesn’t look shifty/look away from the cop
    2) doesn’t act guilty/speed away
    3) drives decent car because he’s worked his ass off and made something of himself.
    4) the cop knows him/recognizes the car. This happens in small towns all over.

    You assholes assume all cops are white, power-mad assholes, just looking for a reason to bash brown heads. You’re wrong and racist to boot.

    04/28/2010 at 11:05 am

    HORSE SHIT you ignorant dumb fuck.

    Not only is “suspected of being an illegal immigrant” probable cause, but shitheels like you can sue a municipality for not being zealous enough about being racist assholes.

    This is the kind of country you want to live in huh?

  20. 25

    Pink Anderson and Floyd Council spews:

    re 4: “Illegal immigrant. It’s right there in the name.

    ILLEGAL, as in criminal.”

    or — parking.

    The AZ law is a prelude to Balkanization, as many of the ‘illegals’ have had family in AZ and Mexico since before Coronado.

    Some say the Yaquis are the remnants of hostile Apaches from AZ. They wear berets and drink wine, mush like their French brothers.

  21. 26

    SamIAm spews:

    @21 “You assholes assume all cops are white, power-mad assholes, just looking for a reason to bash brown heads.”

    You obviously haven’t met Sheriff Joe Arpaio then.

  22. 27

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @23…maybe if your friend paid more, he could find some workers.

    I find it funny that you say they “take shit jobs that american workers wont do”..REALLY?

    so framing, roofing, concrete laying, block layers, etc.. are “shit jobs”???

    Fuck, even McDonalds pays more than $8.50 an hour….maybe your friend needs pay a decent wage…or perhaps his stupid ass needs to be put in jail for hiring illegal workers. HE is part of the problem – so fuck him.

    you are out of touch with reality….you sounds like one of those fucks who sits behind a desk all day shuffling paper, while all the other people are doing the “shit jobs”, like actually building something.

    nice attitude asshole – but then again, not surprising with the fake “we care about the poor people” liberals…

  23. 28

    I Got Nuthin' spews:

    There’s a Facebook group: http://www.facebook.com/home.p.....038;ref=ts.

    The mission statement is very succinct.

    “We would like to encourage the Seattle Mariners and any other Major League team with Spring Training facilities in Arizona to relocate. With the enactment of Arizona’s new immigration law, it is unfair to subject both players and fans to the risk of racial profiling and potential harassment.”

    Please join.

  24. 29

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @22…rujax, you really are a simple minded person arent you…

    The federal govt has a duty to perform – you know, like protect the nation and securing the nations borders being one of them….

    taking my hard earned money and giving it to lazy fucks is NOT one of those duties…FYI.

    there is difference, in case you cant figure it out.

  25. 30

    Michael spews:

    This wont “blow over” because this wont do a single damn thing to stop illegal immigration or the employment of illegal immigrants.

  26. 31

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @30….maybe, maybe not…or maybe it will be the catalyst thats forces the federal govt to finally address the problem…..we shall see…

  27. 32

    Rujax! spews:

    29. Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @22…rujax, you really are a simple minded person arent you…

    The federal govt has a duty to perform – you know, like protect the nation and securing the nations borders being one of them….

    taking my hard earned money and giving it to lazy fucks is NOT one of those duties…FYI.

    there is difference, in case you cant figure it out.

    04/28/2010 at 11:25 am

    But taking your “hard earned money” and letting really really really really rich assholes get richer on your dime is fine with you. You can’t be that stupid…

  28. 33

    Rujax! spews:

    31. Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @30….maybe, maybe not…or maybe it will be the catalyst thats forces the federal govt to finally address the problem…..we shall see…

    04/28/2010 at 11:31 am

    So what’s your answer fuckwad…microchips?

  29. 34

    SamIAm spews:

    @27 Pay rates in AZ are much lower than in Washington – the cost of living is much lower, as is the minimum wage. He would have hired documented workers gladly, but few stuck around after a couple of weeks of working outside in 100º weather. He went with those who were most reliable and did good work – regardless of status. Also, my teenage nephew makes $7.00 an hour at a McDonald’s in Glendale – pretty typical. You are the one who is out of touch, but that’s what tends to happen when your head is up your ass.
    Also – notice I said “most” as a qualifier for shit jobs, not all. And yes, to some people, anything manual labor is considered a “shit job”. I am not one of those who think that, however, but since you obviously don’t actually read and comprehend anything I’ve already written, I’m not going to bother to repeat it.
    You obviously know nothing about Arizona – particularly its history – and the native peoples who have lived in that region for generations and who will be most affected by this law. You know nothing about the abuses of power that the Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office has engaged in for years – harassing people, making false arrests, – and this law will now give them the legal right to do so. The law may be written in a way that makes it appear no racial profiling can take place, but the way a law is written and the way it is enforced – particularly by a corrupt organization – are two different things. If you’re brown in Arizona, you’re pretty much screwed.

  30. 36

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @33….how about a border than doest leak like the titanic for starters….

    something tells me that all the uber progressives who dont give a damn about illegal immigration would change their tune if the illegals started doing computer programing for $15 hour.

  31. 38

    spews:

    THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT GETTING ONE IN WASHINGTON?

    You miss the point foolish right winger. What WA State wants is neither here nor there. MLB players have to pay income tax in AZ. They won’t have to NV.

    Couple that with racist stupidity and down goes the tax base.

    If that’s how they want it – fine. If they want to live in a stupid backwater, it’s their business I guess.

  32. 39

    Michael spews:

    @36

    how about a border than doest leak like the titanic for starters

    Yep! That and enforcing employment laws.

    something tells me that all the uber progressives who dont give a damn about illegal immigration would change their tune if the illegals started doing computer programing for $15 hour.

    The folks over in Banglore already do that.

  33. 40

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    How is it that people get up in arms about mfg jobs getting shipped overseas to China(which is a huge problem), yet many of those same people dont have a problem with 20 million illegal workers undercutting the labor market right here in the US?

    hhmmm…..

    BOTH issues have worked to destroy the middle class in this country – and neither issue gets addressed by the only entity that can do anything about it – the federal govt.

    gee, I wonder why that is……

  34. 42

    Michael spews:

    @38

    It’s a zero sum game we’re playing and AZ and NV are looking to take themselves out of it in a Darwin Awards sort of way. Lets let them.

  35. 43

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @38..for someone without an income, your take on income taxes is not worthy of consideration..

  36. 44

    Rujax! spews:

    36. Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @33….how about a border than doest leak like the titanic for starters….

    something tells me that all the uber progressives who dont give a damn about illegal immigration would change their tune if the illegals started doing computer programing for $15 hour.

    04/28/2010 at 11:46 am

    The agriculture and construction and clothing manufacture industries, among others, depend on cheap labor for additional profits. Why don’t shitheads like you rail against the institutional importers of illegal workers?

    You really have no idea about haow any of this works do you? All you are is a fucking knee-jerk moron. Quit listening to your masters at Fox News and get educated, you idiot.

  37. 45

    spews:

    43 – LMAO!! You’ve been here for the last two days spewing stupid right wing talking points on immigration mixed in with homophobic gangsta rap lyrics.

    How does THAT pay?

  38. 46

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @44…ah yes, the clueless church vandalizer mumbles again…

    I have always supported harsh penalties and jailtime for employers who hire illegal aliens….of course you dont see that because your stuck in your right wing vs left wing world…but thats what I expect from a simple minded lemming like yourself.

    and I will leave the FOX, MSNBC, et al viewing to brainwashed fools like yourself.

    it is YOU who doesnt know how “any of this” works….

    LMFAO @ “any of this”….nice – thats some classic shit right there. So educated, so advanced…..so……uninformed.

  39. 49

    Steve spews:

    “your right wing vs left wing world…”

    I’m so sick and tired of the left-right paradigm, although it does seem to suit our dumbed down country and the blathering media talking heads. That said, everything wrong in this world is all the right’s fault, of course. heh- For example, Nalley’s and Dennison have both stopped selling canned lima beans and ham. Like everything else wrong with this world, I’m certain it’s the fault of those fucking wingnuts! Why do they hate lima beans and ham??

  40. 50

    Pink Anderson and Floyd Council spews:

    2. Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    it will never happen….all the fuss will blow over in a few weeks, one way or another…

    So, you’re admitting it’s just a transparent scam to get peoples’ minds off Republican obstruction of financial reform.

    You must be proud — yer such a patriot — NOT.

  41. 51

    Pink Anderson and Floyd Council spews:

    47. Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @45…it pays about $96k a year….maybe you should try it.

    There are few ways to get banned from commenting on HA, but admitting that you are a paid stooge (useful idiot) of the RNC is one of them.

  42. 55

    notaboomer spews:

    Emmert said he didn’t seek out the NCAA job. He signed a five-year contract as UW president in July.

    so uw gets ten pairs of myles brand’s underwear and a final four to be named later then?

  43. 56

    notaboomer spews:

    “The job wasn’t available. It wasn’t on my radar screen,” he said.

    he leaves the radar to his wife. she sees dead people.

  44. 57

    notaboomer spews:

    “We want our student athletes to be students first,” he said.

    as he lit a cuban cigar with a hundred dollar bill.

  45. 61

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @4 You’re right, “ILLEGAL” means “criminal,” as in “ILLEGAL” wiretapping of American citizens by Republicans who think the Constitution is a scrap of toilet paper.

    Respect for law needs to start at the top of our government, asswipe. Every Republican administration after Eisenhower has treated the Constitution and our laws with contempt. And now sycophants like you are going to lecture us about the “criminal” behavior of poor Mexicans who are just trying to make a living?

    Hey, while we’re talking about “ILLEGALs,” how about the employers who hire them, and don’t report their employment or pay employment taxes, to boost their profits by replacing American workers with cheap foreign illegal behavior? Are those employers “criminals”? I would say so.

    And who are those employers, and who do they vote for? Republicans, Republicans, Republicans, Republicans, Republicans, Republicans, Republicans …

  46. 62

    correctnotright spews:

    Dr idiot Dre says, “the fuss will blow over in a few weeks”.

    Yup, that is typical of idiots who have no idea what the constitution says. Dre claims to be an American – but illegal search and seizure – the idiot has never heard of it.

    Try reading the constitution sometime Drefool- pulling people over for manufactured reasons….is unconstitutional.

    One of the resons our country is great is that we do not have a police state…yet idiots like Dre think it will “blow over” and it is OK to subvert over two hundred years of individual rights.

    Hey, if someone looks Hispanic – than profile them, pull them over and check their ID. Let’s harass some people who have probably been in this country longer than Dre’s ancestors – just because of how they look.

    That is the US of A that I really want to live in?

    NOT!

  47. 64

    spews:

    yet many of those same people dont have a problem with 20 million illegal workers undercutting the labor market right here in the US?

    Heh.. How stupid is this right winger? Of course we have a problem with it.

    But the solution is NOT going to be loading up 11 million people in cattle cars and shipping them south

    And the solution MUST include effective employer sanctions.

    Yeah I don’t have a problem with a poor schmuck trying to eek out a living doing a shit job. But as I’ve pointed out for the millionth time – if he wasn’t hired, he wouldn’t stay here.

    No need to abuse the poor slob like right wingers fantasize. Let’s abuse the greedhead employer instead in the way he can understand – the pocket book.

    Abuse the poor brown-skinned worker vs. heavily fine the greedhead employer.

    What do right wingers choose? We all know the answer to that..

  48. 66

    Pink Anderson and Floyd Council spews:

    re 60: I thought that making projections was one of the important things that the adult mind does. As the financial meltdown would prove, conservatives like you don’t make enough projections.

    Projections, by their very nature, are exercises in imagination. Yet you negatively characterize my projections as ‘imaginary’.

    Once again, a wingnut goes off half-cocked (a ‘projection’? Perhaps.)

  49. 68

    Just a Guy spews:

    “Could the Mariners exit the Cactus League over Arizona’s bush league immigration laws?”

    Could they?

    Maybe.

    Will they?

    No. Thanks for asking and we have some lovely parting gifts on your way out.

  50. 69

    Vince with Hare Lip spews:

    re 67: When you throw a rock at a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one you hit.

    You’re yelping.

  51. 70

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @69..am I?

    its just the same old tired shit from the same old tired people here…..gets boring responding all the time to those who cant read…

    how is that busted lip doing?

  52. 71

    czechsaaz spews:

    Felix Hernandez and Jose Lopez are rolling out to the Peoria P.F. Chiangs in a rented sedan when this cop pulls them over. “But officer, I’m a pitcher not a catcher.” Hilarity ensues?

  53. 72

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    more classic shit…….

    Army with harmony
    Dave drop a load on ‘em

    OPP, how can I explain it
    I’ll take you frame by frame it
    To have y’all jumpin’ shall we singin’ it
    O is for Other, P is for People scratchin’ temple
    The last P…well…that’s not that simple
    It’s sorta like another way to call a cat a kitten
    It’s five little letters that are missin’ here
    You get on occassion at the other party
    As a game ‘n it seems I gotta start to explainin’
    Bust it
    You ever had a girl and met her on a nice hello
    You get her name and number and then you feelin’ real mellow
    You get home, wait a day, she’s what you wanna know about
    Then you call up and it’s her girlfriend or her cousin’s house
    It’s not a front, F to the R to the O to the N to the T
    It’s just her boyfriend’s at her house (Boy, that’s what is scary)
    It’s OPP, time other people’s what you get it
    There’s no room for relationship there’s just room to hit it
    How many brothers out there know just what I’m gettin’ at
    Who thinks it’s wrong ‘cos I’m splittin’ and co-hittin’ at
    Well if you do, that’s OPP and you’re not down with it
    But if you don’t, here’s your membership

    Chorus:
    You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
    Who’s down with OPP (Every last homie)
    You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
    Who’s down with OPP (All the homies)

    As for the ladies, OPP means something gifted
    The first two letters are the same but the last is something
    different
    It’s the longest, loveliest, lean– I call it the leanest
    It’s another five letter word rhymin’ with cleanest and meanest
    I won’t get into that, I’ll do it…ah…sorta properly
    I say the last P…hmmm…stands for property
    Now lady here comes a kiss, blow a kiss back to me, now tell me
    exactly
    Have you ever known a brother who have another like ah girl or wife
    And you just had to stop and just ‘cos he look just as nice
    You looked at him, he looked at you and you knew right away
    That he had someone but he was gonna be yours anyway
    You couldn’t be seen with him and honestly you didn’t care
    ‘Cos in a room behind a door no one but y’all are there
    When y’all are finish, y’all can leave and only y’all would know
    And then y’all could throw the skeleton bones right in the closet do’
    Now don’t be shocked ‘cos if you’re down I want your hands up high
    Say OPP (OPP) I like to say with pride
    Now when you do it, do it well and make sure that it counts
    You’re now down with a discount

    Chorus:
    You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
    Who’s down with OPP (Every last lady)
    You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
    Who’s down with OPP (All the ladies)

    This girl ah tried to OPP me
    I had a girl and she knew that matter-of-fact my girl was partner’s
    that
    Had a fall out, disagreement, yeah an argument
    She tried to do me so we did it in my apartment, bust it
    That wasn’t the thing it must have been the way she hit the ceiling
    ‘Cos after that she kept on coming back and catchin’ feelings
    I said, “Let’s go my girl is coming so you gotta leave”
    She said, “Oh no, I love you Treach” I said, “Now child please”
    You gots to leave, come grab your coat, right now you gotta go
    I said now look you to the stairs and to the stairwindow
    This was a thing, a little thing, you shouldn’t have put your heart
    ‘Cos you know I was OPP, hell from the very start
    Come on, come on, now let me tell you what it’s all about
    When you get down, you can’t go ’round runnin’ off at the mouth
    That’s rule number one in this OPP establishment
    You keep your mouth shut and it won’t get back to her or him
    Exciting isn’t it, a special kinda business
    Many of you will catch the same sorta OPP is you with
    Him or her for sure is going to admit it
    When OPP comes, damn– skippy I’m with it

    Chorus:
    You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
    Who’s down with OPP (This whole party)
    You down with OPP (Yeah you know me) 3X
    Who’s down with OPP (This whole party)

    Break it down!

  54. 75

    spews:

    its just the same old tired shit from the same old tired people here…

    Bye, Bye nice knowin’ ya!

    But of course we’ll see you again won’t we?

  55. 76

    Right Stuff spews:

    Hey Rog @61

    Our Dear Leader has no problem with wiretapping.

    http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2.....-than-bush
    http://online.wsj.com/article/.....58467.html

    On Imigration, which section of the new law gives law enforcement the power to “round up” people? How exactly is it racist to ask for ID when stopped by the police for a traffic violation?
    Why is it OK for the federal gov to demand verification of posession of health insurance, yet it’s not ok to demand legal ID when stopped for a traffic violation, or any other publice offense by law enforcement?

  56. 80

    spews:

    Our Dear Leader has no problem with wiretapping.

    and have you heard from Darth Cheney spewing his mouth off lately?

    Yep.. Didn’t think so.

    No excuse of course.. We’re continuing to push back.

  57. 81

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @80…so wiretapping is now OK in the obama era, but it was somehow TEH EVUL during the bush era..

    LMFAO……

  58. 83

    Rujax! spews:

    81. Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @80…so wiretapping is now OK in the obama era, but it was somehow TEH EVUL during the bush era..

    LMFAO……

    04/28/2010 at 2:45 pm

    Wiretapping is NEVER ok without limits and a court order unless it’s to toss pricks like you in the hoosegow.

  59. 84

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 21: You really don’t know how this works, do you?

    Most police officers are dedicated professionals who try to do their job to the best of their ability. But they bring to the job the same prejudices they had before they got hired. Some do a better job than others in controlling them.

    I’ve known quite a few policemen (and police women) in a number of capacities unrelated to law enforcement, and I know they are human. Some make honest mistakes. Some are honest to a fault. Some are prejudiced, or outright bigoted. And some are just plain mean and petty.

    I’ve been on ride-alongs with policeman where they educated me in the fine art of making a stop first, and coming up with “probable cause” after the fact. One officer I was with pulled over every black driver he saw in his shift one night. His explanation? “We don’t have many black people in this area, and I know most of them, so if they are here at night they must be up to no good”. Turns out one of those pulled over was a lawyer, I got called in to testify at a hearing on the matter.

    I spoke once to the Univ. of Colorado football coach who was the co-founder of “Promise Keepers”. He explained that he had a rule that anyone on his team that was arrested was immediatly suspended from the team. Then there were a flurry of arrests and then suspensions. He recounted how he hadn’t realized until he was forced to look into the issue how easy it was for a black football player to be arrested – either for trivial reasons where a white youth would be warned and let go, or where the police would tend to round up and detain everyone who was black when there was a disturbance – including, in one case, the guy who called 911.

    And apparantly you haven’t seen the videotape of the county policeman who pulled over a black man for “obscured license plates” (the license frame holder covered about 1/8″ of the registration decal). But the black driver was a Miami Assistant Chief of Police, who objected and insisted the officer call in his supervisor. When the supervisor arrived they arrested him for obstruction of justice, resisting arrest, and interfering with a police officer, and a couple of other offenses.

    Note that the goal of some of these stops is NOT to prosecute. It’s to harrass and annoy, to the point where the people pack up and leave. If they were really illegal, they would be detained and turned over to INS. But since they are legal (and can prove it), they are the ones who suffer the harrassment and annoyance.

  60. 85

    Vince with Hare Lip spews:

    re 72: You obviously cannot dazzle with brilliance. Do you really think anyone’s going to read all this BS?

    I’m still hearing a yelp — but muffled — like a Seminole baby in the Florida swamps.

  61. 86

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    awww spoojax…….why so grumpy? didnt get to go out and break church windows last weekend?

  62. 87

    don spews:

    No one seems to be able to answer this question. If I as a white guy was stopped by the police and they asked me to prove I was born here, I couldn’t. Who here drives around with a birth certificate or passport? So if a guy with brown skin is stopped by the police and can’t show a birth certificate or passport, what is the difference?

    I think that a few smart ass cops in Arizona could put and end to this law immediately by asking every person they stop for their birth certificate or passport. Don’t have it? You’ll need to come on down to the station until we get this sorted out.

  63. 88

    rhp6033 spews:

    One of the things about being white and from the South is that people confide in you their prejudices, assuming that you agree with them. I’ve been constantly surprised at the number of people who tell me stories about how they violated the law to discriminate against people, assuming I would understand. I guess they think we all get our KKK sheets & hoods as part of the baby shower gifts.

    As one HR manager once said, “I can ALWAYS find a reason NOT to hire someone”.

  64. 90

    czechsaaz spews:

    @76

    Is that the righty mantra on AZ SB1070? It’s fine to ask, IF someone is stopped for traffic violations or other petty misdemeanors for ID.

    But that’s not what the bill states. I know, Hannity is trying to convince the sheep otherwise by making that “What’s wrong with” argument.

    SB1070

    37 E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
    IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
    ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

    Hmmmm…a public offense, like say, crossing the border? A public offense, like say, working at a 7-11 without papers. (Why don’t proponents of the law just start calling Latino’s Wops?)

    What’s probable cause? Well, if you are physically in the U.S., if you are seen at a place of employment, and you LOOK like you might be illegal (errr…look Latino) then you can be arrested without warrant.

    in fact, the law also says that just physically being in the U.S. while looking Latino can be considered probable cause.

    A. IN ADDITION TO ANY VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW, A PERSON IS GUILTY OF
    TRESPASSING IF THE PERSON IS BOTH:
    1. PRESENT ON ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE LAND IN THIS STATE.
    2. IN VIOLATION OF 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1304(e) OR 1306(a).

    Combine those two bits with:

    G. A PERSON MAY BRING AN ACTION IN SUPERIOR COURT TO CHALLENGE ANY
    OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL
    SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE THAT ADOPTS OR IMPLEMENTS A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR
    RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL
    EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW.

    So if flat out racist Arizonan sees a cop wander into Burger King and NOT ask the Latino behind the counter for ID, the racist Arizonan is within his legal right to get the officer’s badge number and file a suit against him for not enforcing the law.

    Yes, I realize that in practice the above may not happen, but the law as written requires officers to stop anyone, even if they have not broken any law or traffic code, and ask for ID if they have any doubt they may be in the country illegally.

    And just an aside, since the law indemnifies state officials against suit by anyone wrongfully jailed, hope the state has a HUGE legal fund set aside to defend the lawsuits brought by naturalized citizens who get hauled down to a municipal cell for failing to have their wallet with them.

  65. 91

    Vince with Hare Lip spews:

    re 82: Do you remember when Evan was trying to explain his use of the word ‘pickaninny’ as an endearment?

    I felt the same way about calling his mother a stinky whore — but he wasn’t buying it.

  66. 95

    rhp6033 spews:

    # 87: Yep, that’s the key. Make everyone live by the same rules, and you would see the rules change pretty quickly.

    Of course, you don’t have to get pulled over for some other offense for an Arizona cop to pull you over and ask for your proof of legal status. You just have to “look” illegal – which the governor explained is not racial profiling, as long as the police use some other method, such as looking at their shoes (hard to do, when someone is in a car).

  67. 96

    spews:

    Here’s something the cowardly turd can relate to:

    http://www.gazette.net/stories....._32564.php

    and the kicker?

    Dale Kemery, spokesman for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, said those who do not comply with the EPA rule are liable for a fine of up to $37,500.

    I understand that fine applies to both the contractor and the client.

    Imagine that kind of fine per head for the greadhead employer who hires the undocumented. I’d make it really hurt – let’s say 50 grand.

    Any chance a right winger would bite?

    Nope. Didn’t think so.

  68. 98

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @96…fifty grand sounds fine to me…hell, make it an even hundred thousand…

  69. 99

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @94…speaking of unrolling turds, did you and your “other partner” finally get that Cleveland Steamer finished last weekend?

  70. 100

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @93.. What is the sound of one wingnut yelping??

    I dunno, your wife taking it in the rear?

    just guessing.

  71. 101

    BMAC spews:

    Most the morons who are “boycotting” weren’t going to be going anyway. I however WILL visit Tucson this year as I haven’t been in about 12 years to support the new law.

    And I bet Arizona thinks its fantaaaabulous that San Fran dipsticks won’t be visiting at all.

  72. 105

    Vince with Hare Lip spews:

    If the past is prologue, AZ will choke on this law when the baseball clubs refuse to wax their bats in AZ.

    Just like AZ lost the Superbowl because pickaninny sayer Evan Meacham and the MLK day fiasco.

    Lest you wingnuts forget, Meacham was impeached shortly after that.

  73. 106

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    poor YLB…got bored with the dirty sanchez and felt the need to “take it to the next level”..

    whats next? naked hot yoga!?!?!?!

  74. 107

    Seattle Mom spews:

    How foolish, politicizing baseball, an old game that transcends and outlives the tides of political change.

    That’s a great way to unite America. I see your site is named after you.

  75. 109

    Vince with Hare Lip spews:

    re 108: I see your point. Even the Nazis didn’t let politics get in the way of the 1936 Olympics.

    Wingnuts are patriotic about AZ baseball in the same way.

  76. 112

    rhp6033 spews:

    File this one under the category of “That’s gotta hurt….”

    Arizona may lose it’s chance to pick up an additional House seat from the 2010 census because of the new law. While illegal immigrants can’t vote, they ARE supposed to be counted for the purpose of the census. (After all, the original Constitution even said that Native Americans and slaves were to be counted in the census). Apportionment of seats in the U.S. House of Representatives, therefore, is based upon how many people are in the state, NOT how many are citizens.

    Current estimates of residents in New York, California, and Texas indicate that they are just above the number required for them to pick up an additional seat. If the count falls lower than expected in any of those three states, the runners-up for those additional seats include Arizona and Florida.

    But the new Arizona immigration law makes it unlikely that many immigrants, legal or otherwise, will open the door when the census worker comes knocking, or that they will accurately report how many are in the home. This could mean that even if New York, California, and Texas miss the mark for an additional House seat, the likely beneficiary might be Florida.

    Source: Census apathy could cost House seats in 5 states

    Great timing, Arizona. Now extend your left foot, hold your pistol in your right hand, aim downward, and pull the trigger.

  77. 113

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @76 What do you expect from a DINO who was bought and paid for by Wall Street capitalists? I voted for the bitch.

  78. 114

    spark global spews:

    brilliant post! arizona should feel the heat from such a horrible, screw-the-Constitution law that sets back the civil rights movement a few decades. and this would hit them in the pocket book.

    didn’t realize the NFL had switched the Super Bowl – there is a precedent.

    meanwhile, this rapper re-did the Public Enemy classic “By the Time I Get to Arizona” that dropped when they refused to honor MLK Day, but now with current, relevant lyrics – http://bit.ly/d6Sj9I

  79. 116

    guey, compay, escuche... spews:

    Muy chistoso, compay, los gringos dicen que ser ilegal es la cosa lo mas importante. Dicen que es un crimen entrar en un pais ilegalmente.

    Jajajajaja no se lo dijeron eso en los cuarenta del siglo pasado cuando entraron en los EEUU de M. y tomaron la mitad del pais!

    Si, son muy tontos, no saben niguna historia cualquiera! Ay, que estipuidez. Asi que tambian no dan en cuenta que el territorio de louisiana fue lleno de gente y lo compraron! la gente alla no pidieron que se convirtieran en gringos…. los gingos compraron su tierra! Hasta que tuvioron que revertir la tierra de espana a francia para que esta pudiera venderla al pres. jefferson. Pero es otro caso de tomar gente y convirterles en ciudanos sin que les elijeran a reunirse a loss EEUU de A. Y ahora luego hay mexicanos quienes quieren transbordarse al norte, ahorita de repente no les dan bienvenidos!
    \
    Si, son seres muy raras, no se puede explicarlos….asi que el dori munson hoy dijo que nos. somos perezosos y criminales pero al mismo tiempe queremos que nuestras hijos asistieran a la universidad para mejorarse ! habla tonterias, lo mismo como siempre….

  80. 117

    guey, compay, escuche... spews:

    Muy chistoso, compay, los gringos dicen que ser ilegal es la cosa lo mas importante. Dicen que es un crimen entrar en un pais ilegalmente.

    Jajajajaja no se lo dijeron eso en los cuarenta del siglo pasado cuando entraron en los EEUU de M. y tomaron la mitad del pais!

    Si, son muy tontos, no saben niguna historia cualquiera! Ay, que estipuidez. Asi que tambian no dan en cuenta que el territorio de louisiana fue lleno de gente y lo compraron! la gente alla no pidieron que se convirtieran en gringos…. los gingos compraron su tierra! Hasta que tuvioron que revertir la tierra de espana a francia para que esta pudiera venderla al pres. jefferson. Pero es otro caso de tomar gente y convirterles en ciudanos sin que les elijeran a reunirse a loss EEUU de A. Y ahora luego hay mexicanos quienes quieren transbordarse al norte, ahorita de repente no les dan bienvenidos!
    \
    Si, son seres muy raras, no se puede explicarlos….asi que el dori munson hoy dijo que nos. somos perezosos y criminales pero al mismo tiempe queremos que nuestras hijos asistieran a la universidad para mejorarse ! habla tonterias, lo mismo como siempre….

  81. 118

    guey, compay, escuche... spews:

    hemos estado en el continente tres cientos anos mas que los gringos, no creo que pueden evitar que vayamos donde queremos amigo…y mira que estupidez con los derechistas, son construyendo uny mayoria para el partido democratico permanente!

    si, son muy feos los derechistas…vamos a recordar ellos cuando votamos…no les vamos a olvidar nunca. chingados. Que tanto mamen, guey…….

  82. 120

    guey, compay, escuche... spews:

    pues, amigo, ahora que nos. hemos creado este restaurante mexicano nos agradecimos en servirle y tomar su dinero. Que lastima que ustedes no saben como crear un negocio con exito, y los siento mucho que sus hijos solo queden fabricar el meth. Es una lastima que sea tan estupido, no? Pero la cosa es dificil si no puede aprender ni un solo idioma extranjera, va a continuar disminuyendo su ingreso. Pero no le molesta, vamos a estar dispuestos para darle empleo aqui. Claro que tu mama esta trabajando muy duro en las calles cada noche vendiendo lo que puede vender, amigo, espero que los precios que ella cobra no continuen cayendo tanto paso a paso como sea mas antiguo y mas fea cada ano … ai, que me dijo?

  83. 121

    Vince with Hare Lip spews:

    Yera pip!!

    re 120: then, friend, now us. we have created east Mexican restaurant we thanked for ourselves in serving to him and taking its money. That pity that you do not know like creating a business successfully, and I feel much that their children only are to make meth. It is a pity that is so stupid, no? But the thing is difficult if it cannot learn not one foreign language, is going to continue diminishing its entrance. But it does not bother to him, we are going to be arranged to give use here him. Clear that your breast this working very lasts in the streets every night selling what can sell, friend, I hope that the prices that she receives step by step do not continue falling as much as she is but old and but ugly each anus… ai, that said to me?

  84. 122

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    Йера Пип!!

    ре 120: тогда, друг, теперь нас. мы создали восточный мексиканский ресторан, который мы благодарили за нас непосредственно в обслуживании ему и взятию его денег. Та жалость, что Вы не знаете как создание бизнеса успешно, и я чувствую много, что их дети только должны сделать денатурат. Жаль, что это настолько глупо, нет? Но вещь трудна, если это не может изучить не один иностранный язык, собирается продолжать уменьшать его вход. Но это не беспокоится к нему, мы собираемся быть устроенными, чтобы дать использование здесь его. Ясный, что ваша грудь эта работа очень длится на улицах каждую ночь, продавая, что может продать, друг, я надеюсь, что цены, что она получает шаг за шагом, не продолжают падать столько, сколько она слишком стара и но уродлива каждый задний проход … ай, который сказал мне?

  85. 124

    Ozzies Mom spews:

    I live in Arizona. You really do not know what you are talking about. Do you really think the police have the desire/time/need to harrass anyone who is not a US citizen? If there is suspicious activity they will stop someone. Why is the press making this such a big issue? We have over 500,000 Illegal people living in Arizona, draining our resources, did I mention they are Illegal? Maybe they can relocate to Seattle. I lived there for 8 years and I am sure they will love it. Good luck

  86. 125

    Richard spews:

    “So why should MLB and its teams continue to shower such immense economic largesse on a state that just passed laws intended to harass nearly a third of its players and the fastest growing segment of its fan base?”

    It’s difficult to understand or identify the root of this enormously ignorant statement. I can attribute it only to a life lived in the ozone layer. Read the 16-page bill, Goldy. The new law has nothing to do with “harassment,” and in fact is explicit as to when, why and how anyone may be challenged to prove US citizenship while in Arizona. The new law specifically bars law enforcement from practicing any kind of harassment. Of course, when Mexican drug smugglers, coyotes (the four-legged kind) and just plain illegals are identified IN THE COURSE OF ROUTINE LAW ENFORCEMENT, they no doubt will feel “harassed”–and also find their asses in the clink or kicked back over the border where they belong.

    You, Goldy, are indeed a horse’s ass. As you do not live in Arizona, please keep any future ignorant thoughts about law enforcement in my state inside your mostly empty head.

  87. 126

    Alki Postings spews:

    @126 “bars law enforcement from practicing any kind of harassment.” Christ you’re dumb. NO law OFFICIALLY tells cops to actually harass people…but yet it happens throughout history. Seriously, very myopic view.

    Also I was reading a wingnut (crazy) blog on how all these illegal immigrants get “free school” and all these services. ER….so do you. Everyone does. The magical “fact” this wingnut believed was that illegal immigrants don’t pay taxes, therefore they come over and just “get stuff” for free.

    Uh. No. The ONLY tax an illegal immigrant they MIGHT not pay is income (and related social security/unemployment). And that’s only IF they get paid in cash. Many of them DO pay income tax because they use fake documents to get a job, and their employer does take out the normal taxes and sends it off to the state/federal governments. In this case they get to pay income tax to some bogus social security number, but almost certainly won’t collect. Regardless, if they’re working as a maid in a Holiday Inn, but here illegally, they’re paying taxes.

    Then there’s real estate taxes (you know, that pay for those schools their kids are supposedly in “for free”). Do you think ALL or even MOST of these illegal immigrants are homeless? No. If they buy a house, they’re paying real estate taxes. If they pay rent, they’re paying a landlord (like I do) who pays real estate taxes. If they buy food, they pay sales tax. If they buy clothes they pay sales tax. If they buy gasoline they pay sales tax. If they buy cigarettes they pay sales tax. If they buy a car they pay sales tax.

    This Republican “belief” that these people all live in some magic tax free life is just made up, like most all of the wingnut Republican magical beliefs. Just the opposite of reality.

    There IS the valid point about if it’s FAIR for them to come over and just ‘get in’ to the country while other people are waiting “in line” legally. THAT is a fair point. But the taxes issue is bullshit. The actual studies I’ve seen on this are somewhere in the range of 80%…these folks pay 80% of the same taxes that legal citizens do (difference just based on the slightly higher cash economy participation).

    As for crime. If someone does something illegal (whether they’re a citizen, illegal, Green Card, work visa, student visa, here visiting Disney Land)…arrest them, fine them, whatever.

  88. 127

    Alki Postings spews:

    “All right… we’ll give some land to the niggers and the chinks. But we don’t want the Irish!” – Blazing Saddles

    There’s always a group to blame for our problems, and the immigrants have always been the first. Irish, Chinese, Italians, Jews, Polish, etc. They speak different languages, have strange customs, eat strange food…clearly a danger! History says, no, not so much, it’s 95% made up hysteria. But we never learn from history.

  89. 128

    Dr. Dre, Easy E, and MC Ren spews:

    @126…the problem with your analysis is that you limit it to “taxes”.

    for example: Rarely do they have health insurance, yet if they get injured, they go to the hospital, on OUR dime.

    or, even more common, is that they produce children at an alarming rate – guess who pays for those hospital visits? WE do…they sure has hell dont.

    Now of course a hospital is not going to turn away someone in labor or seriously injured, and rightly so….but that bill still needs to get paid..and we see it higher health insurance premiums…

    that is just ONE example…want another? OK: higher crime rate among illegals versus citizens…who do you think pays for that? Not only in money for incarceration, etc…but in the toll it takes on victims who wouldnt be victims in the first place if we had some semblance of a real border…

    and I also take issue with your tax analysis too, but that is for another time….

  90. 129

    AreYouHigh spews:

    The voices screaming the loudest are never screaming for the benefit of everyone! I’d tell you all to calm down with your talks about boycotts but it’s too late, you already pissed me off with your Harper Valley PTA of progressive hypocrisy, and since the people representing SF and California are going to TRY to exert their non-existent economic influence over their neighbor’s laws, I’ll return the favor. Don’t ever expect to see me at the SF gay pride parade, or anywhere in California for that matter, and the gaggle of queens I usually caravan with will be SOL, and probably unable to attend. Sucks when people point out your hypocrisy and play the same bs games with you huh? It goes without saying I’ll be endorsing my local wines from now on as well and goodbye Coachella Festival.
    sincerely,
    Some Cantankerous Queen In Seattle Who Won’t Ever Forget This B.S.!

    Now who’s next to say something stupid and make my shopping/tourism choices even easier?