1. 1

    delbert spews:

    Anybody actually get a chance to read the damn thing?

    And the last minute 300 page amendment?

    Didn’t think so.

    Hopefully, cap and tax will die in the Senate.

  2. 3

    WatchmanOnTheWall spews:

    I dont think those that voted for this will make through next election,but you can call them if you want to congratulate one of the despicable eight.

    Bono Mack (CA) 202-225-5330

    Castle (DE) 202-225-4165

    Kirk (IL) 202-225-4835

    Lance (NJ) 202-225-5361

    Lobiondo (NJ) 202-225-6572

    McHugh (NY) 202-225-4611

    Reichart (WA) 202-225-7761

    Chris Smith (NJ) 202-225-3765

  3. 5

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    1, 2, 3, 4 — Fuck you earth-hating parasites. Remember the election? We won, you lost. This is what losing means. Eat dirt, worms!

  4. 6

    ArtFart spews:

    If this is the version that includes massive promotion of the “clean coal” wet dream and more Babcock & Wilcox nukes all over the landscape (and no doubt, even more money for the ADM ethanol fiasco), then it’s a big yawn.

  5. 7

    GS spews:

    I agree this will die in the Senate. It is a massive Job Killer and will make Nafta look like a Job creation tool.

    Tripling peoples energy bills while they are unemployed will be a changer at November’s election box.

  6. 8

    Libertarian Guy spews:

    Isn’t this the Futures Trading Full Employment Act? More handout for the Wall Street types.

  7. 9

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Wait a mmmmminute, “the messiah” told us last year no new taxes on anyone making less than $250Large. If this passes this will a $1200+ tax on everyone. Hey Pelletizer, you gonna be taxed too you earth bound dumb bunny. You are too dumb to figger it out.

    Dummocrapts… just can’t keep their presidential promises.

  8. 12

    WatchmanOnTheWall spews:

    How can sending American jobs over seas to countries that have no cap and trade help the earth? btw or help our ecnomy,Do you think that if all this rhetoric was possible we wouldn’t already be doing it. It’s unbelievable that such educated people can’t see this is a tax, not anything to do with global warming.WHY, BECAUSE THE EARTH IS NOT GETTING ANT HOTTER It is a slam on all Americans intelegence, sounds to me mr bunny the parasites are in the thinking about others part of your brain,oh forgot that is not a part of librul thinking.
    These are the American haters, with barkly noblahma leading, he is a despicable liar and thief.And T BOONE PICKENS Another liar he will be lining his pockets with taxpayers money too.

    List of the despicable eight.
    Bono Mack (CA) 202-225-5330

    Castle (DE) 202-225-4165

    Kirk (IL) 202-225-4835

    Lance (NJ) 202-225-5361

    Lobiondo (NJ) 202-225-6572

    McHugh (NY) 202-225-4611

    Reichart (WA) 202-225-7761

    Chris Smith (NJ) 202-225-3765
    Kick em to curb America!!!!!!

  9. 15

    SJ spews:

    @11 What point are you masking?

    Is paper production carbon positive? If so then it needs to pay iots own costs .. or are you so socialist as to beleve the tax payers need t subsidize jobs that are nto viable on their own?

    Given the high cost of NW wood, seems to me it is cheaper to make paper elsewhere.

  10. 17

    rla spews:

    Any rational look at the costs and implications cannot lead to the conclusion that cap and trade will destroy the economy or send tens of thousands of jobs offshore. It’s just not rational at all. And no, the Heritage Foundation is not rational. They are paid to justify an outcome, not to do independent research.

    For jobs, from oil to tar sands extraction, most of these jobs are already offshore. Building solar, wind and bio plants as well as conservation will bring jobs back to the US in the energy sector. Anything that reduces our dependency on foreign sources necessarily brings jobs back.

    On the consumption side, business opex will increase for sure. That said the cost of energy in the US is relatively reasonable compared to foreign sources and will likely remain so under cap and trade. In fact, in 2006 and 2007 the cost of energy hindered manufacturing relocation into China despite labor cost deltas. I don’t have more recent data. The real factor in moving jobs off shore is labor costs and far more worrying, talent, not energy costs.

    As for the cost to the individual consumer, the economy didn’t shut down with $4 / gallon gas. It may change people’s behaviors though, and drive the need for conservation, which will in turn create jobs. It hurt and did change some structural factors like increased use of rail and forced municipal spending on public transit, which are good things.

    Will it cost money? Of course. Any economic structural change is guaranteed to cost. Will it be worth it is the question. All the talk of economic armageddon is just distraction hyperbole. From a strategic US perspective it will likely bring jobs back to the US, spur job growth in the green/clean tech sector that can’t be out sourced, create some net losses in jobs in old line industries, reduce the flow of capital in the form of energy trading off shore, decrease the trade deficit with reduced energy inflow. All this makes the US more competitive. I don’t think any conservative would argue that would be a bad thing to be more competitive and more secure despite the desire for the status quo.

    If you want to talk about what’s really dragging our economy and killing business in the US, think healthcare.

  11. 18


    Congressman Adam Smith from Washington’s 9th District is actually saying on his website that cap and trade is needed to keep energy costs down and to unleash the entrepreneurs?

    The entrepreneurs that I know are not looking to compete with the heavy hand of government. The ones that do are not entrepreneurs, they are pigs looking for federal and state slop, aided and abetted by the likes of Smith.

  12. 19

    nolaguy spews:

    Business opex will increase for all companies. Those cost increases will be passed to consumers. But, it will not mean more revenue for the companies, as that price increase goes to the government, and they actually sell less items because the higher prices drive down demand.

    Not good for a struggling economy.

  13. 20

    WatchmanOnTheWall spews:

    @ 17 Yeah and for very 3000 jobs lost you gain 1000 in your green world and then expect the unemployed, elderly and poor to pay the same utility costs as those that are employed,this bill is trying to get people to consume less and they will because they won’t be able to afford it, so old folks can freeze in the winter and cook in the summer, they and the younger groups that make less money will really be the ones suffering, This Global warming B.S. is just another scare tactic to get Americans on board with the current administrations agenda, It is a tax not nessesarily directed at consumers but will be passed on to the consumer by added cost on the products if they even are available anymore.

    And this is what i think of your healthcare mr.barkly noblahma

    The government cant even manage medicaid and medicare and you want them to have control of your health care. The vets have to fight to get anything from them and you want them to control YOUR health care? OMG you need to think about it.Put YOUR healthcare in thier hands not mine,i’ll be responsible for my own thank you.

  14. 21

    Haywood Jablome spews:

    @20……thats just it: they dont want you to be responsible for ANYTHING. When you rely on the govt for everything, you become their slave.

  15. 22

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    C-SPAN reported the Dummocrapt call-in line had so many calls of those opposed to it and the Dummocrapts still passed it.

  16. 23

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:

    Hey NutsTooTight: Here is sumtin for ya. Warren Buffet is against Cap and Trade.

    “Buffett repeated his criticism of “cap and trade” as a method to control pollution, saying it would be a huge, regressive tax.”

    Thanks Warren, Puddy told HAS libtardos Obama was a Cap and Trader last year. The HA libtardos pooh-poohed Puddy. Once again Puddy prescient.

    And Warren is one of “the messiah’s” big jock straps.

  17. 24

    Puddybud is shocked SHOCKED spews:


    Back in April 2009 John Dingell called Cap and Trade a ‘great big’ tax. Well ain’t that amazing again. John Dingell is another big time Dummocrapt.

  18. 26

    rla spews:

    @20 Sigh..

    There is no actual evidence or even semi-rational swag at the economic implications of any cap and trade scheme that supports 3000 job losses for every 1000 gain. Elderly people cooking and freezing? Seriously?? And you’re talking about scare tactics?? Dude, ease up on the drama.

    For the 1,000th time, global warming is not BS. Even if you aren’t willing to believe it, don’t you think that there might be a possibility that you’re wrong? And if you’re absolutely right, you get a cleaner world for your kids. It cost you but you’d at least get something for it. I strongly believe you are wrong as evidenced by the consensus of the *vast* majority of scientists with recognized authority on the subject. But even on the very improbable chance the so many are dead wrong, you’re still going to win.

    As far as Warren Buffet @23, if you listen to the interview he says we have to do something about carbon and we need to address it. He doesn’t like cap and trade “as it is written” because he considers it a regressive tax. Okay, then I need to understand what better system we can put in place that will address what he said is a “must do something” issue. I still like cap and trade over every other system I’ve seen so far but would support anything better as long as it curbs pollution.

    And Hitler health care?? I’ll declare Godwin’s law achieved. You lose.

    I don’t care what you do with your health care. But if I’m going to pay for it, meaning you lose your job and you end up going to the emergency room, I’d rather pay for it publicly than having my overall premiums, or those my company pays for me be higher because you’re a, as some other right winger put it here once, “deadbeat” who doesn’t have insurance. Whether you like it or not, if you have health care you are covering everybody, all those millions who are un or under insured, with a non-negotiable, public option called higher premiums. It’s delusional to think otherwise. People don’t wander into the emergency room with pneumonia and get fixed up with a smile for free. YOU and I pay for it. Wouldn’t you rather be able to negotiate for it? Wouldn’t you rather those people have some preventative care so it’s not always the most expensive possible option for coverage THAT WE PAY FOR?

  19. 27

    nolaguy spews:

    RLA, you seem to know alot about this bill and climate change.

    How will global emmisions be reduced over the long term if large, growing economies like China and India are not implementing similar cap and trade laws?

    By what percentage will global emmisions be reduced when the US is only one of a few countries implementing a cap and trade mechanism?