Many of us inhabitants of the liberal blogosphere like to say that we are part of the “reality-based community,” the implication being that our counterparts on the right are not. And yet, the right’s growing dominance over the past couple decades suggests that at least when it comes to electoral politics it is they who are more grounded in reality than us.
Conservatives now hold the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, and a majority of governorships and state houses. And while 2006 is shaping up to be a year of political sea change, it has more to do with Republican arrogance, incompetence and corruption than with well planned and executed Democratic strategy.
Liberal Democrats simply aren’t as politically calculating as conservative Republicans, as ruthless or relentless, and certainly not as rigidly and blindly unified. Too bad.
For with the GOP teetering on the edge of the volcano, now is the time for progressives to practice a little realpolitik, join hands… and shove the bastards in! But no… we have to engage in our usual bullshit in-fighting over who is or is not ideologically pure enough… all the time losing sight of what should be our overriding objective: seizing power.
Case in point, Sen. Maria Cantwell and the constant chatter from WA’s angry left, bemoaning the fact that she doesn’t meet our unrealistic expectations… all this wailing and gnashing over her failure to stop a war she couldn’t stop or her refusal to join a filibuster that could not win. And then there’s The Stranger’s Cienna Madrid and her fellow environmentalists over on Slog, who just can’t hold back their contempt for the environmental record of one of the most reliably pro-environment members of the Senate.
Cantwell’s transgression? She “welcomed” Idaho Governor Dirk Kempthorne’s nomination to be Secretary of the Interior, telling the New York Times that he “understands the Northwest and a lot of Interior issues,” and has “stood up to the administration” over nuclear waste cleanup at a federal facility in Idaho.
Oh Cienna… get real.
Not only is it absurd to suggest that this one comment should negate a five-year environmental record that has made Cantwell’s reelection the number one priority of the League of Conservation Voters, but the ensuing comment thread brouhaha showed a total lack of understanding of exactly what it is we elect our senators to do.
Don’t get me wrong… I really like Cienna. She’s funny, she’s foul-mouthed, and she sure can string a handful of unrelated words together into a coherent and entertaining sentence. No wonder she has a horde of admirers in The Stranger’s forums: talent is a turn on.
(Too bad I’m way too old for her. Unless, of course, she has a thing for older men… in which case I’m only about ten years too old for her. Ah well.)
But while Cienna’s a great writer… she’s also young… and so her passion and prose sometimes gets ahead of her analysis. And in this particular case her ire was certainly disproportionate to the political reality.
See, the reality is that the GOP holds a 10-seat majority in the Senate, and that Gov. Kempthorne is not only a former senator, but one who was well-liked by his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. The reality is that, evil or not, Kempthorne is going to be the next Secretary of the Interior, and there is absolutely nothing that Cienna or me or even Cantwell can do to stop it.
Cienna and others are outraged that Cantwell would greet Kempthorne’s nomination with such a welcoming statement, but she did so — so aides tell me — not only because she genuinely believes that he is somebody she can work with on issues important to Northwest voters… but because she has no choice. The reality is, he will be confirmed, and thus she will have to work with him, whether she wants to or not.
Sure, Cantwell could have greeted Kempthorne’s nomination with a big, fat “fuck you” — and perhaps that would have given people like me and Cienna a bit of passing pleasure. But what would it accomplish? The first time Cantwell went to Kempthorne on some real life issue that effected real life people in Washington state, she likely would have gotten a big, fat “fuck you” in return.
See, that’s the way things work in Washington… the Washington Sen. Cantwell works in, not the Washington in which she campaigns for votes. No, she may not be the best politician in the world, but she’s a damn fine legislator, and it should be pretty clear to her critics by now that she’s not going to do or say anything that interferes with her ability to do her job. It should also be crystal clear that while she’s reliably progressive on most issues (Progressive Punch rates her at 88.93% compared to current progressive darling Russ Feingold’s 89.56%,) she’s never going to be a Paul Wellstone.
Now… would I personally like Cantwell and the rest of the Democratic party to be a lot more stridently progressive? Hell yes! But the reason we have a war in Iraq and a Supreme Court packed with right-wing justices — and a “weasely, incompetent chode” like Kempthorne running Interior — is not because Democratic senators like Cantwell fail to take bold, symbolic stands… it’s because they’re in the fucking minority!
Welcome to my reality-based community.
UPDATE:
Cienna responds.
RIGHT ON and WELL SAID. Like my fellow NPI members, I’m not just principled – I’m also practical.
Brillant. Fucking Brillant. Its about damn time we as progressie relize that our number one priority tight now has to be keeping the Dems we have and getting more Dems elected. Being able to nitpick electeds about all our pet issues is a privage you get when you are in the majority. Nto to mention that once we are in the majority most of these things will go aways. A dem speaker is not going to bring anti choice legislatino ot the floor, a Dem president would not have nominated Alito.
Goldy, you should have just stopped at the first parapgraph.
You are out of touch with reality, dipshit…..
The rest of the world does not see things the liberal way, which is to say. through rose colored glasses. Unfortunately, nutbags such as yourself just don’t get this.
VOTE democrat, it’s better than working for a living!
Yup, Right on the money. We (the democratic party)have a wave or ignorant purists that are hell bent at tearing Cantwell down and giving the seat to McSafeco cuz she does a poor impression of Jim McDermit. Like that’s going to help. Jim is great but there is a reason why he does not seek to be in the senate. HE CAN’T GET ELECTED STATE WIDE!
On the other thread I asked Mr. Cynical to state one thing that George W. Bush does exceedingly well. As of yet he hasn’t said one thing about Bush.
But, there is one thing he/they do exceedingly well — campaign. That is the one area in politics where the Republicans hand us our butts on a silver platter.
They don’t govern worth a damn, but they put together on hell of an effective campaign. That is where the Dem’s need to look at what and how republicans run their political campaigns and take a few lessons. The fact of the matter is we don’t campaign well, but we govern a lot better than conservatives.
“The rest of the world does not see things the liberal way”
Citation?
Or did you just pull that from your ass?
Momus, in your immense wisdom, do you feel the rest of the world sees things through the patented ‘wingnut tinted glasses’ that the current administration uses? If you answer is yes, then Momus, you are sadly lost in your own personal time warp and out of touch with reality.
@ 6:
The latter over the former.
Momus you poor pathic sap, get a life and quit drinking the neocon koolaid being provided to you from the nice minister fella.
Nah, what you so-called “progressie” should realize is that by acting like everyone who isn’t a Republican is and must be a Democrat you piss off us independent voters who are neither. That the national Democratic leadership has the collective intelligence of a bagful of hair is YOUR problem, not ours, and badgering us about it shows how out of touch you are.
With all due respect to the local party, there just isn’t enough difference between Republicrats and Democans. Patty Murray could censure the President for a blowjob, but not for violating the Constitution? Joe Biden still thinks he has a chance to be President? John Kerry still thinks he has a chance to be President? Joe Leiberman is still alive? (Okay, that last one’s G-d’s fault.) All just as delusional as “the other side”. Hell, the Clinton administration was nearly as toxic to the Bill of Rights as this one, if you were paying attention back then.
Give us a decent freaking choice and stop insulting us by behaving as though we have no choice but the Dems — the majority of us who don’t vote because it’s all a corporate game might actually choose to vote next time if we aren’t confronted with the evil of two lessers.
The one thing Democrats are reliably good at is fratricide. The message of the last 5 years should be THIS IS NOT A TIME FOR BUSINESS AS USUAL! We’re at war — civil war, that is:
“… this is a civil war, … only one side will prevail, … the other side will be relegated to history. This war has to be fought with the scale and duration and savagery that is only true of civil wars. While we are lucky in this country that our civil wars are fought at the ballot box, not on the battlefields, nonetheless it is a civil war.” — Newt Gingrich
That’s right, wingers don’t see politics as a competition of ideas, they see it as a fucking WAR to be waged and won by any means AGAINST US.
Wake up, people! Democrats of all stripes have got to understand these people intend to destroy us, and put themselves in power not for 4 years or 8 years, but forever!!! They understand all too well that once they get enough power, they can control elections, and once they control elections, they can impose their government on the people regardless of whether the people want it or not. And they intend to do exactly that.
Let me repeat: THIS IS A FUCKING WAR, AND THEY WANT TO KILL US! They have even said so: According to Ann Couulter, liberals should be put in “concentration camps” and “executed.”
There’ll be plenty of time to resume our favorite sport — attacking each other — after we’ve put these bastards in concentration camps and executed their leaders. Hey, I’m kidding — that’s just a joke! Wait, no, it’s not! No, wait, I’m kidding. Hell, ask Ann Coulter if SHE’S kidding — but be careful about believing anything a neo-Nazi wingnut says.
3
“The rest of the world does not see things the liberal way” Commentby momus— 3/20/06@ 4:13 pm
How are you CHEAP LABOR CONSERVATIVES* doing in the polls lately, Momus Pompous Assus?
* http://www.conceptualguerilla......php?id=103
“When you cut right through it, right-wing ideology is just ‘dime-store economics’ – intended to dress their ideology up and make it look respectable. You don’t really need to know much about economics to understand it. They certainly don’t. It all gets down to two simple words.
“‘Cheap labor’. That’s their whole philosophy in a nutshell – … a short and pithy ‘catch phrase’ that describes them perfectly. You’ve heard of ‘big-government liberals’. Well they’re ‘cheap-labor conservatives’.
“‘Cheap-labor conservative’ is a moniker they will never shake, and never live down … cheap-labor conservatives are defenders of corporate America – whose fortunes depend on labor. The larger the labor supply, the cheaper it is. The more desperately you need a job, the cheaper you’ll work, and the more power those ‘corporate lords’ have over you. If you are a wealthy elite – or a ‘wannabe’ like most dittoheads – your wealth, power and privilege is enhanced by a labor pool, forced to work cheap.”
3
“VOTE democrat, it’s better than working for a living!”
Commentby momus— 3/20/06@ 4:13 pm
The whole point of being a Republican is to live off the labor of others so you don’t have work.
6
“Or did you just pull that from your ass?” Commentby Donnageddon— 3/20/06@ 4:17 pm
A little birdie told him this.*
* Momus sucks farts from dead seagulls, then blows them out his ass.
10
“With all due respect to the local party, there just isn’t enough difference between Republicrats and Democans. … Give us a decent freaking choice …” Commentby G Wadsworth— 3/20/06@ 4:30 pm
This kind of thinking is 5 years out of date, and is directly responsible for the non-stop disaster of the last 5 years! If you still think there’s no difference between Republicans and Democrats, either you’re comatose or you’re a lying GOP troll.
Goldy starts out—
“Conservatives now hold the White House, the Senate, the House of Representatives, and a majority of governorships and state houses. And while 2006 is shaping up to be a year of political sea change, it has more to do with Republican arrogance, incompetence and corruption than with well planned and executed Democratic strategy.”
I KNEW where this was leading. Another effort to racially attack Aaron Dixon for his willingness to stand up for what he believes in. Another weak attempt to convince people with principles to check them at the door. Keep the Blacks down on the old Plantation. They should be happy with the LEFTIST crumbs by God!!!
Once again Goldy, this is a losing strategy. I cannot imagine anyone who believes in Green Party principles to read Goldy’s spin and say “Oh, I just read HorsesAss and now I’m willing to vote for Cantwell”!!!
I know a lot of hardcore Libertarians who are dang Conservative and would NEVER vote for a Republican. Same with Greens and Dems. They don’t mix.
Pummelling the Right isn’t your problem Goldy. It’s coming up with a platform…in detail AND candidates way, waaaaaaay better than the Gore/Kerry/Kennedy/Jesse Jackson type crowd headed by a realllllllll asshole, Howie Dean.
While I agree with Goldy in this instance (Cantwell is going to have to work with Kempthorne and can’t give him a “fuck you”), he’s way off on the whole “Democrats need to support Cantwell” meme. And he sounds more like a Repug than a progressive when he says.
Cantwell has a good record on the environment, but has left her constituency out in the cold (literally). As another poster alluded: there aren’t huge differences between between most republicans and most democrats. They both represent corporations and not working-class people.
Goldy, have you addressed Cantwell’s votes on the bankruptcy bill, CAFTA, Alito, and (apparently) censure? Think McGavick would have voted any differently?
In 2006, one of two people will be elected senator from Washington, Cantwell or McGavick. Anyone who thinks Dixon or any other candidate has a chance to be anything but a spoiler is delusional.
And anyone who thinks there is no difference between Senator Cantwell and a Senator McGavick is nuts. Since Bush is going to be in office two more years, increasing the number of Democrats in the Senate is the only hope of getting some progressive input. And Cantwell’s voting record, taken as a whole, is very progressive, as pointed out by Goldy. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as someone once said.
Completely Stupid!
First, RELY on Dirk Kempthorne to tell Cantwell to fuck off if she asks for ANYTHING. She has been the most vocal opponent of ANWR, his job will be to OVERSEE DRILLING IN ANWR. The only reasonable reaction Kempthorne could have had to Maria Cantwell’s fawning was to laugh at her. She, and Democrats like her, are losers.
How do I know? Well, Gore lost, the Dems lost seats in 2002, Kerry lost, Gregoire lost the first TWO counts and we’ve lost the Supreme Court. They have a record of losing.
The reason they lose is because they do not understand that it is their job to persuade the voters that Dems are right and Repugs are wrong. They somehow got the idea that if they keep agreeing with the Republicans and give everyone the message that Republican positions are the inevitable will of the majority of Americans, people will somehow take this to mean they should vote for Democrats. It’s far too “bold” to tell the voters that Republicans are wrong. It might upset Karl Rove. Of course the strategy has been a complete failure because you can only traingulate successfully once, and then the other side takes away the middle.
Because they’re not idiots.
In Goldy’s world of Democratic party insiders, “smart” equals “Republican”. Any time a Democrat is described as having done something “smart” you can be assured that Democrat has agreed with Republicans or laced his message with Republican talking points.
The result now is that the Democratic party leadership is to the **right** of the electorate – on Iraq, on ANWR, an NSA Spying/Censure, on Abortion Rights, on Guaranteed Health Care. Even though the Republicans suffer from SIGNIFICANT deficits in the polls on all these issues AND the leader of their party is at record-low levels of job approval, the Democrats will not benefit. They are busy doing “smart” things like praising the only major Republican politician who is so comfortable being an anti-environmentalist that he will gladly take on the job of overseeing drilling in ANWR.
But, let’s not use our minds. Let’s trust Goldy and the “leadership”. They have a secret plan. The first step is to praise every right-wing psycho Bush nominates.
Trust them. They’re very “smart”.
Remember, it’s certainly not the “leadership’s” fault that the Republicans have both houses of Congress, the Presidency, the majority of governorships and the majority of state houses. It’s your fault for not being “smart”.
I will vote for Senator Cantwell, but to say that we on the left don’t have room to critique her less than stellar performance is just wrong. She’s too calculating and conservative for my taste. I’d rather have her than ANY rethug, but I think it’s the liberal blogworld and liberal voters to keep reminding Cantwell she’s a Dem!
Goldy has a very good point. Look at the last two candidates fielded by the Dems for President. The extreme lefties LOVED them….what about the rest of the “regular” people?
IMO: Bush got elected because he wasn’t voted FOR but received votes AGAINST his Dem counterpart. And yes, Nader was a “spoiler.”
I asked a progressive friend of mine:
Me: Who are you gonna vote for?
GF: Nader.
Me: You vote lie that and Bush will win.
GF: Probably.
Me: So are gonna vote for Gore?
GF: No, I’m voting for Nader
This country needs a health and VIABLE two party system. One party TOTALLY in power loses it’s checks and balances. The Dems need to get back in touch with the average Jane & Joe on the street.
My experience is many (not all) will go now go off. “We ARE in touch you *insert favorite four letter word* it’s the “rethugs that are Nazis.
Instead of name calling, please present a viable alternative. “We’re not Bush.” and “Bush sucks” may very well express where you’re coming from, but doesn’t tell your average, working and living paycheck to paycheck what you will do that is better and will have a positive impact on their lives.
You may not agree but that’s the way it is. There is a lot of vote in “flyover” country. And many of those folks drive pickup trucks and like to hunt and fish too. They go to church and work hard for what they often get told is “extravagant” or “selfish.”
dlaw you ignorant fucking troll. Stop talking out of you ass long enough to learn from what Goldy posted. It is you dlaw, you that are the cancer in our midst.
Fuck the flyover country.
Speaking of 08… did you hear that the inventor of the internet has a movie coming out about global warming? Can’t wait… should be hilarious. Should be a knockdown dragout nomination fight between loser Gore and can’t get elected Smartest Woman in the World.
If you moonbats want to start warming up your hate and intolerance for the next president, he’s going to be on Carlson’s show on Tuesday at 3.
There is no better way to say “fuck you, and fuck you HARD” to:
Mr. Cynical, momus, JCH, klake, Pope, Mark the Redneck, Rufus, Jaybo, all the other aliases of Kevin Carns, Stefan Sharkansky and his ever-dwindling little cult of crazies, and all their like-minded rabble, than to
RE-ELECT MARIA CANTWELL!
And re-elect her we will!
Mr. Cynical, momus, JCH, klake, Pope, Mark the Redneck, Rufus, Jaybo, all the other aliases of Kevin Carns, Stefan Sharkansky and his ever-dwindling little cult of crazies, and all their like-minded rabble, than to
RE-ELECT MARIA CANTWELL!
And re-elect her we will!
Commentby ivan— 3/20/06@ 6:33
Ivan you wouldn’t be related to Vladimir Lenin and some of his friends in Seattle?
JAck Burton
What a load of SHIT!
Gore recieved more votes than Bush in 2000, and 48% of those allowed to vote in 2004 voted for Kerry!
You think the majority of Americans are “extreme lefties?”
Guess what? They are.
And Bush played everything so disasterously, that now the American people know what they are.
Democrats. Extreme “left” Democrats.
Let me explain the dem problem…. you see… dems have no real ideology… no set of binding principles. All you have is hate and intolerance. You don’t stand for anything… the modern dem party is just a collection of kooks… radical environmentalists, hate filled feminists, God hating aetheists, ignorant “grouchoandharpoists”, greedy freeloaders of various shades…
None of that sells. None of that reflects Murkan values. Sure it sells in a few cesspools like Seattle and San Francisco and a few other scattered sewers, but it certainly doesn’t resonate with the mainstream.
So resign yourself to being in a perpetual minority until you find some values.
16
“It’s coming up with a platform…” Commentby Mr. Cynical— 3/20/06@ 4:57 pm
We don’t need a platform, because we’ve already got one:
Peace
Social Security
Medicare
Choice
Family Wage Jobs
Job Growth
Balanced Budgets
Safe Workplaces
Honest Elections
Consumer Protection
Affordable Health Care
Civil Rights
Bill of Rights
Public Education
Higher Education
Transportation
Pension Protection
Fair Credit Laws
No Discrimination
Safe Drinking Water
Clean Air and Water
Public Power
By contrast, here is the GOP platform:
CHEAP LABOR
20
Get rid of Bush, Cheney, Rummie, Rove, and the neoCONS first; then get rid of Cantwell.
Cantwell’s a well-documented vote panderer. She frequently says one thing and does another, and she toots her own horn to OTHER people’s achievements.
While effort is admirable, achivement is valuable. Mike McGavick’s not the scary child-eating pyscho-path you make him out to be. What’s wrong with giving him a chance? It CAN’T BE any worse than Cantwell, and he’d have obvious advantages with Republicans in power.
Goldy- you talk about how Cantwell can’t just say “fuck-you” to Dirk, because she will have to work with him in the future. You’re dead wrong. She certainly shit on Stevens, and look where that’s getting her now: ANWR drilling will go ahead anyways.
Cantwell’s ass is flapping in the wind…and you all know it. Otherwise you wouldn’t be lecturing your fellow LIBERALS on proper incumbent ass-kissing etiquette.
Did Ms Cantwell vote to extend the Patriot Act this last time? If so, then I cannot back her candidacy. If not, I would like to hear about it. I wrote to her on the subject, and called two of her offices, but recieved no reply. It would have beeen nice to have gotten at least a “canned” letter explaining the situation.
Let me explain the Mt-Redneck problem (i.e. Emtpty-headed Redneck) problem. Too much:
Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Savage-Weiner, Faux News, Regnery, Moonie-Times, Scaife and Murdoch newspapers, Shrub-worship, Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, Pastor Ted and on and on and on.
Wingnut @21
“Goldy has a very good point. Look at the last two candidates fielded by the Dems for President. The extreme lefties LOVED them….what about the rest of the “regular” people?”
Well let’s examine this. Gore kicked Bush’s butt … winning the popular vote by over half a million … and Bush’s thugs had to disenfranchise 57,000 black voters in Florida to get into the White House.
Then, in 2004, Bush again won the electoral vote by only one state, and to win that state, the Rethugs once again had to disenfranchise thousands of people by locking the voting machines in warehouses and making voters wait in line for 8 hours to vote. Ohio smells a lot like Belarus!
Yeah, Jack, you guys should be real proud of yourselves — you can’t win an honest election, so you take people’s most precious right — the right to vote — away from them! Republicans are scum, no better than Russian gangsters.
Hey Jack, how’s your boy doing in popularity polls? 2/3rds of Americans think Bush is a fucking idiot who is unqualified for the job and should quit.
33
“Let me explain the Mt-Redneck problem (i.e. Emtpty-headed Redneck) problem. Too much: Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Hannity, Savage-Weiner, Faux News, Regnery, Moonie-Times, Scaife and Murdoch newspapers, Shrub-worship, Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, Pastor Ted and on and on and on.” Commentby For the Clueless— 3/20/06@ 7:32 pm
Not only is MTR’s sponge-like brain saturated with GOP b.s., he doesn’t pay his gambling debts either.
21
Hey Jack — if Kerry was so bad, why did right-wing liars have to spread false “intern affair” stories about him and lie about his military record to defeat him?
The answer, of course, is Republicans lie and smear because they can’t win an honest election.
Roger @ 29
Good point. The GOP vision is that eventually everyone makes less than the current minimum wage and works at Wal-Mart or a coolie labor job in farming or resource extraction. America becomes the world’s largest banana republic.
The rich oligarchy will need a merchant and servant class to service its needs and that will be the best job anyone can hope for in the GOP’s vision of the future – a job of sucking up to the rich.
We can take some small comfort in the fact that if the GOP’s vision is fully realized, MTR’s job goes to China or India!
This is a great day of blog reading for me.
I spend this afternoon slapping around a bunch of fringe types who are on the far right of our side of the aisle in the postings who are trying to negatively influence this race.
Then I come over to Horses Ass just for shits and grins and see you puling over the exact same problem with your leftist extremists in the Democrat party.
Of course the only difference is that your fringe extremist lefties are in the “mainstream” of Democrats. You aren’t exactly the party of Truman and “Scoop” Jackson anymore folks.
Which is why the majority of Americans (a slim majority granted) are voting GOP and that’s why encumbent Sen. Cantwell is going to have a heck of a run for her (RealNetwork) money.
It is interesting to see all the “new” posters on HA.org.
I think we are gonna see a lot more new “Left behind by the Domocratic party/ Used to be a Democrat but now they are to “exteme”” type of Trolls.
They can’t run as Republicans, so all they have left is to try to split us apart.
I have some Dem Representatives and Senators that I want to take out behind the wood shed… But I am gonna vote or send money to every one of them (except Lieberman) because we need to get the NeoCons out of power, and then we let the “centrist “Republican lite) Dems to follow the will of the people!
Ain’t a Dem Politician I will not harrass.. after we get back the majority!
Goldy’s post is crap. Total crap, and the raging hot air of the Apologists can’t change the facts.
First Goldy starts out with something true: If the Dems win in 2006, it will have nothing to do their strategy because they have no strategy.
With the Republicans teerering on the brink, the Democrats have decided resolutely to do nothing. In fact, they’ve decided to be NICE and not make the Repblicans feel quite so bad about fucking up the entire country.
As no less cynical a D.C. Dem than Donna Brazile pointed out, rather than unifying the party and using the energy of the netroots, the Conservative Dems are using this opportunity for a jihad against the Dean Democratic Insurgency.
After foresaking public allegiance to any Progressive principle but environmentalism, Cantwell withdrew the Kerry-Cantwell amendment stripping ANWR language from the Budget in a misbegotten legislative “strategy” which allowed the Republicans to finally pass their wildly unpopular ANWR drilling scheme. The effect of her filibuster nullified, her opponent is now able to make a reasonable claim that he and not she has kept dangerous tankers out of Puget Sound. As if that’s not enough, one day after her ignominious defeat, she was the only Democrat to be quoted nationally praising the region’s leading opponent of the Roadless Rule, which Cantwell presents as her prime environmental priority (now that ANWR has been given away).
Yet somehow Cantwell is a “damn fine legislator” – A contention that would be ridiculous on its face if the standard wasn’t so low in the Democratic Party.
Finally, we are not to see the irony that the very people who told us we had to sacrifice all principles to PRESERVE the Democratic majority now tell us we must accept that we are a minority and, therefore, (wait for it) sacrifice all principles. We are meant to accept that – all evidence to the contrary – this “strategy” of sacrificing all our principles has nothing to do with all our losses. We must abandon our principoles and abandon them again, to the point that “Democrat” becomes purely a synonym for “stands for nothing”. Of course that’s what most voters already think, but apparently there are still a few who think we really do want a different kind of America from the Republicans.
Here’s why I insist on voting for people who oppose the war in Iraq, support abotion rights, want guaranteed health care and want to censure Bush for spying:
1.) That’s actually what I want them to do
2.) Those positions all have clear national majorities and even bigger majorities in this state.
I’m not an ANWR head myself. I just want my politicians to oppose ANWR because it’s also popular and I think it will help them win.
But I guess I lack the strategic vision to see why supporting popular positions is bad politics. Oh, particularly at a time when they are all opposed by a President who is at 34% approval.
Let me explain the rethug problem…. you see… repubs have no real ideology… no set of binding principles. All they have is hate and intolerance. They don’t stand for anything… the modern rethug party is just a collection of kooks… radical war mongers, hate filled racists, theocrats, ignorant “grouchoandharpoists”, greedy oilmen and draft dodgers.
None of that sells. None of that reflects real American values. Sure it sells in a few cesspools like Alabama and Texas and a few other scattered sewers, but it certainly doesn’t resonate with the mainstream.
So resign yourself to being in a perpetual minority until you find some values.
And go fuck yourselves while you’re at it!
“If you still think there’s no difference between Republicans and Democrats, either you’re comatose or you’re a lying GOP troll.” –Roger Rabbit
Roger, babe, this is exactly why “your side” is managing to lose even though there’s a broad popular consensus in your favor (on abortion rights, the environment, et cet). All I have to do is be just a little critical, wander off the reservation a step or two, and you go into full-blown fratricide mode. (Kinda ironic, given the original post.)
A response like yours — which doesn’t even engage my point of view, just bounces off of it like shit to stupid — is an excellent example why 60% of the electorate sees politics as a sideshow for white elites with leisure time, and why (if you were an example of who would be in charge if the Dems won the Presidency, which for the love of God better not be true) these people think things in this country wouldn’t change particularly is the Dems were in charge. The problems of this country (even before Bush II made everything worse) are too large for you to even address, much less fix working from the Federal level.
Try getting your mind around that, bozo. “Your side” is no more prepared to govern effectually than Bush’s posse (or rather the posse Bush fronts for) was able to successfully “win” the Iraq war. You can insult me however you like, use your hindbrain logic to condemn me as a Bad Thing (since I’m obviously not a Good Thing by your puerile standards, having an independent mind and all), but that’s not going to change the facts out here in the real world.
Goldy, well put. All too many lefties seem more interested in sitting around in cafes and trashing the less pure than in doing the hard spade work it takes to build a winning electoral coalition.
While I hardly endorse all of Cantwell’s votes, the simple fact of the matter is that coalition building requires compromise. The hard left and right can call that pandering all they want, but that’s what good public servants do in a deeply divided state. If the fringees don’t like it, let them move to an island where everybody thinks like they do.
“the modern dem party is just a collection of kooks… radical environmentalists, hate filled feminists, God hating aetheists, ignorant “grouchoandharpoists”, greedy freeloaders of various shades…”
Hey Mark, tell us again about your “no nukes for kooks” theory.
No nukes for kooks. I kinda like it… has a nice ring to it.
dlaw @ 30, you post is interesting in that it seems to say something, and fascinating by the fact that it is so uncomprehensible.
DO you want a continueing NeoCon stranglehold on the US, or do you want a Democratic majority for whom we can slap into line?
Or are you just another Troll hoping to split the Liberals because the Republican Party is now a dirty word?
Come to think of it, the GOP is full of kooks. To wit:
Kook # 1,
Kook # 2 …
and who could possibly forget Kook # 3?
That’s just to name a few.
16
“It’s coming up with a platform…” Commentby Mr. Cynical— 3/20/06@ 4:57 pm
We don’t need a platform, because we’ve already got one:
Peace
Social Security
Medicare
Choice
Family Wage Jobs
Job Growth
Balanced Budgets
Safe Workplaces
Honest Elections
Consumer Protection
Affordable Health Care
Civil Rights
Bill of Rights
Public Education
Higher Education
Transportation
Pension Protection
Fair Credit Laws
No Discrimination
Safe Drinking Water
Clean Air and Water
Public Power
Commentby Roger Rabbit— 3/20/06@ 7:27 pm
Now if you actually practiced your platform you might have something. Of course you wont because if you did it would put you out of business…..especially the honest elections part. Hehehehe
Ouch! Dr. E you should give a warning when you post a pic of Katherine Harris!
I would rather see a pic of Dr. Death Himself Negoponte!
OUCH ! I spoke too soon!
My eyes!!
@ 49 HE HE… uh… why are you still here?
Donnageddon, how could you possibly assume that the leadership of the Democratic party knows how to beat the Neocons?
What ability have they shown to beat the Neocons on ANYTHING?
Doc Bong – Aren’t you glad I explained ferin policy to you? Real simple and easy to unnerstand huh?
Are you going to teach redneck policy to those “future leaders” you have in your classroom at Bong U?
Spare me the lecture on “reality-based”. Just because one doesn’t endorse the flip-flopping Cantwell does not make them any less of a progressive than you are. Fact is, there is a viable candidate (who has been mentioned on other political blogs and websites) who is almost a Democrat and could possibly turn things around. I’d be more apt to give this person the time of day if they are truly what they say they are- a Democrat. Not a Democrat-In-Name-Only like Cantwell and some of her other “Democrat” counterparts.
Again, just because others disagree with Cantwell does not make them any less of a progressive than you are.
IRAQ BOMBSHELL! SADDAM’S FOREIGN MINISTER WAS CIA SPY, TOLD U.S. SADDAM DIDN’T HAVE WMDS
From NBC News (MSNBC.com)
“Iraqi diplomat gave U.S. prewar WMD details
“Saddam’s foreign minister told CIA the truth, so why didn’t agency listen?
“By Aram Roston, Lisa Myers & the NBC Investigative Unit
“Updated: 7:36 p.m. ET March 20, 2006
” … NBC News has learned … the CIA had contact with a secret source at the highest levels within Saddam Hussein’s government, who gave them information far more accurate than what they believed. It is a spy story that … raises new questions about prewar intelligence.
“What makes the story significant is the high rank of the source. His name, officials tell NBC News, was Naji Sabri, Iraq’s foreign minister under Saddam. …
“In September 2002, at a meeting of the U.N.’s General Assembly … there was … a secret contact made. … Intelligence sources say that in a New York hotel room, CIA officers met with an intermediary who represented Sabri … the CIA paid Sabri more than $100,000 in … “good-faith money.” And … Sabri … relayed information about Saddam’s actual capabilities. … Sabri’s answers were … closer to reality than the CIA’s estimates, as spelled out in its October 2002 intelligence estimate.”
For complete story, see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11927856/
Yep, this is the only card the NeoCons have left.
Impersonate “Greens”, “LeftBehinds” “Former Democrats”
The NeoCons are gonna go full out to try to split the Liberals. With fake Blog posters, fake “grass root” democratics.
Goldy rest assured the increase in “New posters” is a farce, and a compliment.
The Progressive/Liberal/Democrat people have to stick together!
The NeoCon -Fake Conservatives- are gonna play Real Dirty now that they see they are gonna get fucked over.
They will stop at NOTHING.
Keep smart… and get some firearm training.
GBS: You seem to forget your ilk had 40 years to govern with Congress. The public said bullshit in 1994. Maybe this will go back to your ilk in 2006. But people will also consider the pork (yes I hate pork) and maybe only certain places go donk!
Hey Wadsworth: Who is “G-d’s”?
dlaw @ 52:
Then what’s your plan for beating the neocons? The Greens? Seriously — put your game plan on the table..
Dr. E. @ various
I see in the news a Navy vet blew away a 15-year-old kid with a shotgun blast to the chest for walking across his lawn.
The fact somebody has a gun doesn’t mean they’re not nuts. Same applies to nukes.
As I recall, early in the Afghanistan operation, the righties were talking about using nukes there …
“Aren’t you glad I explained ferin policy to you? Real simple and easy to unnerstand huh?”
I think you meant “furin” policy, dinn’t you? Actually, I couldn’t really understand it, it was obviously far to intellectual for me. Tell me again about them “internal subcultures”, whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean. You must have learned that stuff at one of your fancy boutique universities.
PuddyBud stuoidly said “You seem to forget your ilk had 40 years to govern with Congress. The public said bullshit in 1994.”
Citation?
Or are you pulling that out of your ass?
Keep in mind PuddyBud, I know exactly who “governed” between 1954 and 1994.
So should you!
But please try to back up the bullshit you posted @ 57
I double dare you!
60
Of course not. The larger issue is proliferation.
Who is “G-d’s”? –Puddybud
We all are, I suppose, but it seems as though, having created God in our image, you’d think It owed us something better.
But seriously, substituting dashes for vowels in the name of God is how some observant Jews avoid violating the rule that the name may not be spoken or spelled out. (Thought Goldstein might grin.)
Don @ 50
Sorry. She’s the modern-day Tammy-Faye Bakker (or Meissner, or whatever her name became post Jimmy-boy).
We have had a siasterous 5 years of complete NeoCon rule. Enough already, the NeoCons have already sold out America. Militarily, Diplomatically, and Economically.
Get the ropes ready at The Hague!
DLaw: You have to excuse Donnageddon. He can’t comprehend anything with large words and cohesive thought. Actually, I understood plain and clear yours and Wadsworth’s messages. Now you can understand why the DULLEST KNIFE on ASSHeads is Donnageddon
It’s hard for busy folks to slog through scores of off-topic posts and trollish attempts to distract us from the real sweet spot progressives need to pursue in swinging for the bleachers (for starters think SUBPOENA POWER).
As usual, however, Goldy is solidly on point. We need to keep our eyes on the prize and stop being distracted by puerile infighting. If Nader 2000 does not strike you as a profoundly ominous cautionary tale, go elsewhere. Remember who the real enemy is, and keep your ire directed there. PLEASE.
Donnageddon Fuck You. Look up congressional control from 1954-1994. You are such a dumb jackass!
Donnageddon the only citation you’ll get from me is your abject stupidity!
Donnageddon is so fucking stupid he makes Rujax look like a member of Mensa!
Donnageddon is so stupid, he could not figure out what DLaw wrote!
Donnageddon: You want a citation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Citation
You can get your favorite car Chevrolet Citation!
It cracks me up that you think that it’s only because Republicans are better organized or more aligned that they are leading the country. But thanks, because as long as you believe that, you won’t make the correct decisions to give Dems a fighting chance.
Look at all of the folks here and look at yourself Goldy. You are all a bunch of progressives. That’s the extreme left wing of YOUR party. Do you think most Americans want more taxes, less capitalism, more programs that drain the economy, more unions that bankrupt American industry, etc.? By no measure do the Repubs do everything right, but the one thing they do well is at least hover somewhere near mainstream America. You all are so far to the left, and you can’t find your way out of the maze. It’s just comical. And you spend most of your time bashing the President, ignoring the rise of Islamic hatred, whining about any program that’s at least attempting to provide some security, etc.
NEWSFLASH: You are out of touch with America. You are a bunch of kooks living in Seattle, which is about as far left as it gets. In your insular world, things make sense to you, but the average American doesn’t see it your way. And even many of us who are secular moderates and agree with you on many issues such as abortion, gay marriage, right to die, etc. view you all as skewed to the far left and out of touch. Most Americans simply don’t hate their president and their country like you all do, even if they disagree with the current administration.
There’s no way you are gonna fix things in time. You’ve got way too much invested in all of the ridiculous rallies, Code Pink, Socialists, MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, etc. You think these people are movers and shakers, the vast majority of us just view them as fools who’ve got time on their hands to whine.
Good luck.
Sweet Dreams, PuddyBud!
dlaw @40,
The reality is, Cantwell is the nominee, and there is nothing you or anybody else can do to change that. The majority of DEMOCRATS think she’s doing a great job. She’s a shoe in.
THAT, is reality.
So your choice come November will be between Cantwell and McGavick… nobody else has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning. And that TOO is reality.
How hard is this to understand?
Donnageddon 46 FYI dlaw is in fact a troll who has an illness that causes him to forget everything and start over every seven days. When he does make feeble attempts at communication it seams all he can cough up is the concept that we should all trash Cantwell and then McSafco will be elected and we will be better off. If you want to read page after page of his drool and also the intelligent comments of others then check out Washblog. Your comments would be welcomed.
Goldy, dlaw has a tin ear. You are right on the money though.
Goldy: If Al Gore had been the firebrand he is now when he was running for President, people would not have been saying that Democrats are weak and vacillating shitheads who stand for nothing.
The Republicans were the minority for many years without betraying their philosophy.
Particle Man, is there an RSS feed for washblog?
76
Thanks for the lecture. Guess we’ll all just give up now and go fascist (i.e. GOP).
Goldy:
This is about as fair an analysis as I’ve seen.
The Democrats drove a lot of us out of the Party because we were not pure enough on one issue or another, Now we vote for most anyone except a Democrat. But as you demonstrate, the purge continues.
The Netroots and the Moveons will conduct their purity tests, and will continue nominating people who can’t win an election or savaging those who mostly agree with most of the agenda and can get elected. They are the greatest useful idiots the Republicans could have, and they cannot be convinced to stop.
H. Lucy “If Al Gore had been the firebrand he is now when he was running for President, people would not have been saying that Democrats are weak and vacillating shitheads who stand for nothing.”
True, but he did pick Joe Lieberman as his V.P.
He is older and wiser now.
Particle Man does politics not the tech thing. You can get there with the link at left and someone there will answer your question. Cheers
I love it. You ASSHeads identify dlaw as a troll because he doesn’t fit into the moonbat mindset.
Keep up the good work dlaw. I remember other posts that were so far left, it made others here look middle of the road.
Oh and Donnageddon, go drive your citation up the hershey highway! Did you look up the congressional record? Stupid!
PuddyBud, I did not need to look up the congressional record. But you would be wise to look it up!
And if you want to prove that who controlled congress and the presidency over the last 40 years was the Democrats, then post your proof!
CLUE: IT was not the Democrats!
IE, Nixon Reagan the Republican Senete, et.al.
Search the Congressional Record! Make your case for your obvious lying claim!
Just like every NeoCon Symp, you are big on claims, and utter fools at evidence.
If Al Gore had been the firebrand he is now when he was running for President, people would not have been saying that Democrats are weak and vacillating shitheads who stand for nothing.
Al Gore did stand for something.. a faster internet. Hehehehehe
I dont need to look it up either. To control congress you need to control both the house and senate. The republicans have never controlled both the house and senate until recently. The house has been in control of the democrats for roughly 40 years until the slaughter of 94.
@ 89 Har Har Har.. the ol’ Al Gore claimed he invented the Internet joke!
Har Har Har…
Jesus, the rats are getting rabidly stupid.
RUFUS, said with his head up his ass, and his ass in the air said
“To control congress you need to control both the house and senate. The republicans have never controlled both the house and senate until recently. The house has been in control of the democrats for roughly 40 years until the slaughter of 94.”
RUFUS,
1. “the last 40 years” includes the last 12 years. You Moron!
2. Holding the House, while the Republicans control the Senate does now equal the Demoncrats controlling congress.
PuddyBud was an idiot to make the claim and you are dumber than an idiot to have supported his obvious lie!
Profanity is the last resort of a desperate write. Goldy has such a small vocabulary that he cannot easily express his thoughts so he resorts to cursing like “F-ck”.
“Macho” Goldy has again shown us his ignorance and put everyone in his/her place. God has spoken!
So when are Goldy and Cienna going to get together? Sounds like a match made in heaven.
Johhny Reb @ 93 “God has spoken!”
Thanks for passing that on to the rest of us.
Anybody but Cantwell is going to work just as well as Anybody but Bush. This is not about people, values or issues. It’s all about money. Get real people and realize your words, their actions, ideology, etc. will never be able to compete wth the money. Follow the money and you will understand why the rest happens.
To “Terry Jay’
Your points are apt and appropriate and those referenced actions have caused many to be driven away. On the other side, the coupling of the Captains of industry with the NeoPuritans is a chimera driving away still more. This intractable conflagration causes more and more of us to do as many have already done – with ever increasing numbers – quiet, mindful citzens for whom the past devotion to a civic obligation has winnowed away to nothingness. Many find so few elements of a political nature here to love and further nurture. And before the Klaxon horns of the partisans begin to shriek “Hate” “Hate” “You Hate America” Remember that is simply not so; you need only look back to your own, last, bad breakup: The opposite of Love is not Hate. The opposite of Love is Indifference.
The current pattern, our political paradigm, is breeding this indifference, and merely holding an election does not change this nature; calling a plebiscite is not automatically an example of democracy. More and more people I speak with of late are considering themselves to be, like myself, a
Hmmm … what happened to the rest of #97? Did he choke on a 4-syllable word?
Roger Rabbit, I do believe we see the beginnings of the “NeoCon” plan for 2006
* disengage the voters
* Split the democrats
* distance themselves from Bush
They will NOT get away with it.
Goldy @ 78
The reality is that Cantwell, the nominee, is fucking up. She should be ashamed of herself and you should be telling her to grow a set instead of sucking up to an Idaho Nazi.
“Cantwell is the nominee” does not mean “Cantwell is always right” unless you are trying to get a job in the Democratic party, in which case it’s just a convenient lie.
The reality is decades of losses for the Democratic party all across the nation while abandoning their principles. In your “reality” this abandonment is both inevitable and wise. The real results say it’s fucking stupid, not to mention cowardly.
How hard is it to understand that sucking up to the region’s most vocal opponent of your stated priorities will not win you votes or favors? How hard is it to understand that Dirk Kempthorne was nominated BECAUSE he could not give a FUCK what Maria Cantwell or any other Democrat has to say – that this is his primary goddam qualification? How many times do the Republicans have to tell Democrats like you to go fuck yourselves before you realize they mean “go fuck yourself”? Is that really so difficult to grasp?
In my view the ONLY WAY Maria Cantwell can lose is if she keeps fucking up like this. If she insists on doing it because she cares FUCK ALL about what Democrats in Washington state want, because she thinks she knows everything, then fuck her, she’s on her own. If she wins, good. If she doesn’t that’s HER goddam fault. In any case, now is certainly a better time for Dems to make clear that they think she has her head up her ass than later, isn’t it? And don’t give me this crap about how Democrats are happy with her.
And, while you’re at it, don’t be such a goddam whiney little girl. Maria Cantwell’s candidacy isn’t going to fold up because some bloggers and Progressives get pissed off at her in fucking March. I am so sick of Chicken Little Democrats who think the sky is falling every time there’s some criticism. It’s bullshit.
If John Kerry had listened to Progressives and gotten some balls we would have a different President. I don’t want to hear a goddam thing from the “leadership”. Maria Cantwell is fucking up, just like Kerry, and she can either straigten up or she’s on her own. Oh, and SHE doesn’t seem that worried about what Progressives think. What the fuck gives YOU the right to be a sanctimonious prick when the candidate doesn’t even care?
BTW, Maria TOOK a “bold, symbolic stand”. She stood up for the qualifications, values and accomplishments of the ardent anti-environmentalist who will be in charge of dismantling all her environmental “priorities”, JUST TO BE NICE! Isn’t that sweet? Kempthorne’s JOB is going to be to tell her to go fuck herself and she gives him a BIIIIGG KISS.
And who says McGavick’s “civility” theme isn’t catching fire in Washington state. Maria sure seems to love it.
G Wadsworth,
Have fun in your ‘principled’ fantasy land. Meanwhile, in the real world, your attitude has gotten us Bush’s fuckups. “Democrats are the same as the GOP” is not ‘slightly off the reservation’. It is full blown fucking STUPID. Politics isn’t a game where your idealism can fix everything if only people would agree with you. It is a huge confused muddle where you have to compromise your principles to get anything done. I can’t believe you said that bullshit line in fucking 2006. Cantwell is ON OUR SIDE. You want someone to hate? Nail REICHERT. Bash McCain. Do something PRODUCTIVE!
The probable result of telling Kempthorne Fuck You is natural gas tankers in Puget Sound or some other shit like that. Comprende? OUR job is to bash Kempthorne. Cantwell’s job is to be an effective legislator and to try to obtain the BEST POSSIBLE result.
On Particle Man:
You ever wonder how Bob Shrum can lose campaign after campaign and getting hired?
The answer lies in the existence of Particle Men througout the Democratic Party.
Shoe, you probably are the hopeless idiot you seem, but I’ll try.
She could have just KEPT HER MOUTH SHUT, COULDN’T SHE.
Jesus, grow a goddam brain.
Finally, what is this “rating” bullshit? Since when do I give a fuck about this?
Cantwell’s rated highly by the League of Conservation Voters so she can do no wrong, meanwhile Kempthorne is rated a “1” by the LCV so Maria should somehow give him a public blowjob in the New York Times AND USA Today.
What sort of twisted logic is this?
Kerry was rated highly by all the liberal groups. Somehow that didn’t give him the balls to stand up to the Repugs. Ratings don’t mean a goddam thing.
Oh but here’s a thought:
So let’s see, the opposition party jams through a policy that is so unpopular they suffer major defections from their own ranks (ANWR).
Should a Senator:
A) Mock and defame the opposition party, pointing out the fact that they have just nominated a radical anti-environmentalist to oversee this unpopular program?
B) Tell everybody what a great Secretary of the Interior the radical anti-environmentalist will be.
C) At least keep her idiot mouth shut.
Donnageddon@88: Idiot. Where did I say the presidency? Reference? Citation? Blog Entry? You continue to amaze all of the ASSHeads with your utter stupidity. Notice I didn’t say the United States Congress which includes the House of Represnetatives and the Senate. I used lower case congress, this is the HoR. The senate is the other body. When people mention the congress (even the MSM) dumbass donnageddon, they infer the HoR. When people mention a congressional district, as most ASSHeads want to remove Dave Reichert from the 8th Congressional district, are they talking about Senator Maria Cant-Vote-Well? Of course not. But in DonnageddonWorld, these words have new meaning!
Donnageddon let me reintroduce you to #71. “Fuck you! Look up congressional control from 1954-1994. You are such a dumb jackass!” SO where did I mention presidential control?
Dum dee dum dum. Dum dee dum dum. Dum dee dum dum dum. Joe Friday here. We found another stupid one in FUWA. This one is soooooooo stupid, he needs remedial elementary reading skillz.
Rabbit Pellet has an armadillo waiting for stupid ASSHeads like you Donnageddon! Rujax, your lack of recent commentary is escalating your intelligence quotient. Welcome to mensa.
For the Clueless will be leading the charge to ban me after this post!
Oops… Represnetatives is Representatives.
“So your choice come November will be between Cantwell and McGavick… nobody else has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning. And that TOO is reality.
How hard is this to understand?
Commentby Goldy— 3/20/06@ 9:32 pm”
So what! That still doesn’t mean true believers in Green Party principles can’t and won’t vote for Aaron Dixon.
You have one way of expressing yourself…however true Greenies (there are a lot of wannabe sell-outs) understand that when and only when they can clearly show they have swung an election or get 10%+…then they will be a force to be recond with. As long as they look at there ballots the way YOU want them to, THEY WILL BE BACKGROUND NOISE!!!! Many have figured that out.
lol, ‘background noise’, an apt description of Mr Cynnical
Again, I have to say that IF YOUR CONVICTIONS ARE STRONGLY ANTI-WAR; your convictions will force you to vote for Dixon.
Otherwise, you have been nothing more than a hypocrite all this time.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/.....bpa21.html
The above link to the PI has the core reason that Cantwell does not feel the need to bash the new interior sec.
Sure he will try to drill in ANWR and probably poison as many people as possible with mine waste and subsidize the repubs in the ranching and mining industry as they live off the public teat, but the most important single issue for those living in the great north west will be safe.
The BPA.
The Former Gov of Idaho will not allow the Bushies to tap the BPA for money to replace the tax cuts revenue.
Native americans, spotted owls, and anyone living downstream from a gold mine better be prepared to move PDQ, but hydropower will remain cheap (compared to the rest of the country)
Cantwell ain’t perfect and she will get an earfull from me at the party conventions, but I will also be working for her re-election.
And native americans who remember Slade (indian fighter) Gorton will remember just how bad a repub in that senate slot can be.
Ken, drinking the Code Pink kool-aid again? The West Virginia mine accidents occurred under which senator? Robert 3K Sheets Byrd, Mr. Pork Barrel himself. When he could have been getting pork for the state mining industry he was creating the:
Robert C. Byrd Drive, from Beckley to Sophia (Byrd’s hometown)
Robert C. Byrd National Technology Transfer Center at Wheeling Jesuit University
Robert C. Byrd Highway
Robert C. Byrd Federal Correctional Institution
Robert C. Byrd High School
Robert C. Byrd Freeway
Robert C. Byrd Center for Hospitality and Tourism
Robert C. Byrd Science Center
Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center of West Virginia
Robert C. Byrd Cancer Research Center
Robert C. Byrd Technology Center at Alderson-Broaddus College
Robert C. Byrd Hardwood Technologies Center, near Princeton
Robert C. Byrd Bridge between Huntington and Chesapeake, Ohio
Robert C. Byrd addition to the lodge at Oglebay Park, Wheeling
Robert C. Byrd Community Center, Pine Grove
Robert C. Byrd Honors Scholarships
Robert C. Byrd Expressway, U.S. 52 near Weirton
Robert C. Byrd Institute in Charleston
Robert C. Byrd Institute for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing
Robert C. Byrd Visitor Center at Harpers Ferry National Historic Park
Robert C. Byrd Federal Courthouse
Robert C. Byrd Academic and Technology Center
Robert C. Byrd United Technical Center
Robert C. Byrd Federal Building (there are two)
Robert C. Byrd Hilltop Office Complex
Robert C. Byrd Library and Robert C. Byrd Learning Resource Center
Robert C. Byrd Rural Health Center
Robert C. Byrd Clinical Addition to the veteran’s hospital in Huntington
Robert C. Byrd Industrial Park, Hardy County
Robert C. Byrd Scholastic Recognition Award
Robert C. Byrd Community Center in the naval station, Sugar Grove
Try again Ken!
Drilling in ANWR is a problem according to Ken. But I thought we went into Iraq to steal their oil reserves? That’s what the loony libruls who eat shit and bark at the moon said in SF, Seattle and other sick librully controlled cities at the beginning of the Iraq War! Now we want to drill and Ken wants to keep oil prices high! I present to all ASSHeads more librul logic!
Ken in Seattle, you probably love Jim McDimwitt? Anything with a (D), no matter how distasteful has Ken’s vote. Ken says “git ‘er done” when it comes to voting the dummocraptic block!
more inept dribble from puddybutmyvoteisforsale
GOP troll (freek) @ 17 — Ah, the bankruptcy bill! SOMEBODY finds it useful to loft and re-loft the DAMNABLE LIE that Cantwell voted for the bankruptcy bill.
And much as Cantwell’s detractors promise to rebut this piece of oppo flim-flam “next time”, they never rise to the occasion when “next time” comes.
Drivel: Aptly named because nothing written by him is worthwhile. Why do you waste pixels with your DRIVEL?
Goldy –
I always find it sickening that the people of Connecticut can wake up and stand up to Joementum, but anyone in Washington state that criticizes Cantwell is derided as a ‘purist’. Despite what you may think, one of the reasons the Dems are in the minority is that they have gone out of their way to not let their constituents know where they stand. Maria is the queen of spinelessness. Look at all the positions that she is criticized for… and you will find that she is out of touch with the majority of Americans. She refuses to repudiate her votes for Iraq, and says she would not change her votes. She refuses, like Bush, to admit that Iraq is wrong. That should be enough to lose anyone anywhere the election. She refused to stand up to Alito. In your defeatist mind, that doesn’t matter, because we would have ‘lost anyway’. How inspiring. She voted against working people on Bankruptcy ‘Reform’. Bottom line is that she is more concerned with Alaskan Caribou than she is with average American. Wilson or Dixon, take your pick. Cantwell must go.
jaybo @ 112
A vote for Dixon is a vote for McGavick – a sycophant (along with you) of the war-mongering gang who has sold out this country.
For the Clueless: Why are you such a racist? You are Goldy’s sycophant and we all know it.
Oh shit now FTC will try and ban me again!
For the Clueless: did your children inherit your clueless genes or do they have a mind and a clue inheriting goodness and mercy from your wife’s side?
dlaw = nut job. Case closed.
Dlaw: Now we know all about Particle Man. He’s a Schrum supported and his particles don’t quite reach the top floor.
So right, so right
‘Roger Rabbit[sic]’ @ 98
“4-syllable word” So, even HOW one expresses oneself is insufficient to your cause(s). Not only substance, but form is to be attacked. You have no idea if I’m even sympathetic to all or some of your ideas. Instead, you quip. Why should someone stand by you? What unrelated critique is next? My choice of shoes? The color of my shirt? Your apparent anti-intellectualism and accompanying sophomoric retort is helpful to people in what way? How exactly, does it allow others to see and to serious consider your views on any matter? I am calmly pointing out that as you deck passengers on the Titanic bicker over which end of the boat is sinking, more and more of us are leaving the ship altogether.
Clueless @121,
So your advice to the “anti-war” crowd that is so because of their personal convictions is to ignore all of that and vote for Cantwell because she will change her mind as soon as she is re-elected?
Do you have any proof of that?
I guess we are going to find out this year just how serious these so called “anti-war” groups are in this state, aren’t we.
How much do you want to bet that they aren’t really true believers at all?
The above post (#128) is from jaybo.
Progressives,
Unless this country can make a fair re-distribution of wealth, nationwide, we are doomed to be a county of a few wealthy and a great many poor.
RonK @ 118
Cantwell Voted “Nay” on S.256 in the 109th Congress, which was a crappy Bankruptcy bill.
Cantwell Voted “Yea” on S.420 in the 107th Congress, which was a crappy Bankruptcy bill.
Cantwell broke ranks with Murray and voted “Yea” on S.5 in the 109th Congress, the Class Action bill, a related issue.
Her record of voting on legal protection for consumers and victims of industry is not unblemished and the confusion is understandable.
It’s like the Alito vote, Democrats can’t be inconsistent and expect to be believed.
Here’s a handy link for the “damnable lie” that Cantwell voted for the bankruptcy bill, S-420 in the 107th. http://www.commondreams.org/he.....316-03.htm
Sadly most of the Dem caucus, including Reid and Murray voted with her.
My vote will be for the party, not her. We certainly should be better represented, but until a better candidate stands for election, it’s a terrible idea to get rid of her and replace her with someone even worse. We need the Senate out of the hands of the radical right.
And I would think she might suggest that keeping the Secretariat of the Interior out of the hands of the radical right might be wise as well.
So libruls, how do we get our energy needs taken care of. The Prez said lets go for alternative energy means. Some leftists already staked claims to go against the Prez.
You are a perfect idiot.
“Alternative energy” means to suggest an “alternative” to petroleum. Liberals and people with sense generally understand that simply adding another region of Coastal Alaska to the list of exploited regions does nothing but use up that oil now rather than later, as well as inevitably pollute a pristine area of our public lands mainly for private benefit.
In terms of petroleum, it is mostly used for vehicles and home heating. A great deal of this resource is wasted because of poor standards of insulation, which help nobody, and poor aerodynamics and oversized engines – which are used to satisfy vanity rather than any rational purpose. So there are ways to use much less petroleum rather than getting it from ANWR and wasting it.
I can’t believe there are folks who aren’t anti-war at this point. How stupid do you have to be to continue believing that Cantwell’s votes are based on the will of the people? The only way this woman will be driven to do the right thing is if more people get off their butts and get involved in politics. As I see it, there are only really two choices. Either a) she sees the light and begins leading, leading her constituents to honor her courage and be motivated to support her in their neighborhoods, or b) that she continues on this course of least resistance and is swept out by losing her election. I’d love for Aaron Dixon of the Green Party to post big numbers, because that will show her that she can’t fuck with labor and principled progressives and expect to coast to an easy victory. And God help her if she thinks leaning to the right is the right strategy at this point.
dlaw and Cemtz @ 132/133 — Looks like you’ve sunk to a damnable new low.
When you say “Cantwell voted for the bankruptcy bill”, you don’t mean “Cantwell voted for THE bankruptcy bill” — the recently enacted abusive bankruptcy bill that everybody’s so justifiably upset about.
You mean “Cantwell voted for A bankruptcy bill” — a Senate bankruptcy bill supported by 2 out of 3 Democrats, 5 years ago. YOU mean she voted for a bankruptcy bill that — after various amendments, substitutions and conferences — was never enacted.
YOU mean she voted for a bill that was never enacted because it too nice to satisfy a Republican controlled House.
And you’re using that as argumentative cover for a rhetorical sleight-of-hand to deceive honest Democrats into thinking Cantwell voted for the 2005 bankruptcy bill.
That is unscrupulously, damnably dishonest of you … and damned stupid if you think you can get away with it.
RonK, -dlaw
I’m a reasonably honest sort, as human as yourself and as capable of error.
After reading RonK’s post #137, I went back and double checked the facts. Indeed, the 2001 bill failed to get out of the House-Senate conference committee. I admit I missed that then, and I’ve carried that misimpression for 5 years. I’m actually quite pleased to be wrong about this. Thank you for almost pointing that out. Here’s a handy reference link for the next time this error crops up in discussion, as I imagine it will. http://www.amda.com/federalaff.....0hr333.htm
As dlaw put it so well in #131, “Her record of voting on legal protection for consumers and victims of industry is not unblemished and the confusion is understandable.” The 2001 bill was a bad bill, one that heavily favored banks and finance companies over the consumer. That it failed to get signed into law was no fault of hers. That too many other Democrats vote the for the wrong side is no credit to the party, nor should it provide shelter from voter displeasure. Too many Democrats were stampeded into bad votes for the Iraq authorization and the Patriot Act, among too many such examples.
A little advice about building your case and convincing others of your correctness. Show your work. Name calling isn’t the same thing being convincing. Don’t assume the worst about the motivations of motivations of those you seek to convince until you have evidence those motivations. Most of us react much more strongly to being called dishonest rather than called out as simply mistaken. Just my $0.02.
RonK @ 137
You’re acting like an hysterical idiot.
I was trying to explain the confusion. That’s all. Your “accusation” is so much nonsensical raving which only serves to reveal your defensiveness at having to be an apologist.
If Cantwell voted for a bad bill, it was a bad vote. It is not by any stretch of the imagination a “damnable lie” to say that Senator Maria Cantwell voted “yea” on S. 420 in the 107th Congress. It is, in fact, inarguably true.
That the bill did not get out of reconcilliation absolves her of nothing. It was a bad vote. I also don’t care that Patty Murray also voted that way. It was a bad vote.
**I** NEVER wrote anything that suggested in any way that Maria Cantwell voted any way but “Nay” on S. 265 in the 109th Congress. That was a good vote. She also voted “Yea” on S.5, the Class Action bill, which was a bad vote and Murray voted the other way.
My statement was perfectly simple and EVERYTHING IN IT WAS TRUE.
What is, in contrast, *perfectly* dishonest is your attempt to whip up hysteria and impugn my motives when you have no basis for it whatever.
And if you think you are doing Cantwell any service with that kind of crap, you are sadly mistaken.
My understanding was that the opposite of “reality-based commentary” was “faith-based commentary.”
http://www.intergalacticjester.com/
DLaw: I know what alternative means. I even know what an alternative lifestyle is. Many ASSHeads live this lifestyle. That being said, I was not discussing ANWR jackASS. What did the Prez say? He said we have to wean ourselves from Middle East oil. Now I know ANWR will NOT provide the balance of this difference. Do you? So who is the village idiot now besides Donnageddon? I think you are coming in a close second DLaw!
Mark Centz @ 138 — Full credit for the clarification, and for taking initiateive in improving your understanding. If you had followed developments more closely, or gave it further study, you would know that Democratic support for the Senate package and the 2001 bill’s eventual failure were consequentially related. The naive interpretation of a “horror vote” is almost always wrong, but it’s standard grist for the campaign mill.
What’s not standard grist (though it does occur on the fringes from time to time) is the repeated propagation of categorically false horror vote accusations. This has been the case with Cantwell’s detractors who have been apprised of the truth repeatedly and still find it politically convenient to systematically propagate the lie.
Apologies if I mistook you for one of the usual slime-mongers.
David @ 139 — No credit. Too clever by half: “explain the confusion”, my ass.
RonK@118 why are people who disagree with you and other DLC toadies GOP trolls? You’ve been schooled on the bankruptcy bill issue so no need to address that. After reading Cienna’s response though, I take back the part about Goldy being right on this point. Cienna’s point, if you didn’t read it, was it would be ok to welcome him, but why be a cheerleader.
And for the record, I consider myself a too-idealistic-for-Goldy progressive.
freek/troll — Typical troll tactic to insinuate victory on a point you’ve just lost, hoping some lazy reader will buy in without checking back.
At this point the state of play on bankruptcy is:
Mark Centz: “I’m actually quite pleased to be wrong about this.”
dlaw: “I was trying to explain the confusion. That’s all.”
Pop up in a progressive blog, propagate incendiary lies about our candidates, and dance around it with commonplace troll-foolery? Presumptive rightwing troll.
She voted for the Bankruptcy Bill – period! Other Democrats didn’t that said something to me.
RonK/DLC Toady/Troll@146: Aren’t you doing the same thing you accuse of me? Ya know people can go back and read the complete comments you selectively quote?
Bankruptcy bill(s) aside, how do you defend her votes on CAFTA, patriot act, Alito, Rice, fedral class action suits? For someone that supports working-class values these votes are indefensible. I wonder if you do support these values. No says you have to, but if you do why throw up the smoke screen of wild accusations and hysterics?
I’ll vote for Cantwell in November, but she has not earned and doesn’t deserve my support. Darcy’s getting all my political time and money this cycle.
RonK @ 143
You’re a paranoid hysteric.
The confusion comes from a piece on the commondreams.org web site which pops up on Google.
Again, obviously you can’t point to a thing I said that was untrue, because there is nothing. You can’t point to a word I said that creates a mistaken impression, because there is none. You are acting like a freak because you, and we all, are put once again in the position of having a candidate suffering from her failed effort to find the middle when the Republicans have taken the middle away.
The combined effect of Cantwell’s votes on S.420 and S.5 screw up her ability to make her good vote on S.256 part of her message. And you’ll not she is not featuring that issue. Contradictory votes have that effect. If she had gained something by her other votes, I think they would have been wise, but I don’t think she did, and I don’t think she was wise.
AND, your entire little hissy fit is a canard, and an ineffective one.
The issue on this thread is Dirk Kempthorne.
Why on earth does any one think that once these DLC democrats are in the majority they are going to do anything other than what they are doing now…voting in Bush’s lunatic right wing justices, not voting for censure or impeachment or ending the Iraq war or not attacking Iran etc etc.