Breaking News: Logan deposition reveals little breaking news

I just downloaded Dean Logan’s 476-page deposition. Actually, the “redacted” version the Republicans provided to the Seattle Times is only 436 pages. That’s still a helluva lot of pages, but you can’t blame me for being curious about the GOP’s “40-page-gap.”

Needless to say, I haven’t had time yet to read the deposition for myself, so I’m not ready to comment on it directly, but please feel free to read it for yourself and use this thread to start debating the highlights (or lowlights, depending on your point of view.)

David Postman and Keith Ervin do a bit of preliminary reporting in today’s Seattle Times. Amongst the somewhat newish tidbits revealed, the number of mishandled provisional ballots in King County was closer to 785 (122 of which were unverifiable), three additional absentee ballots were found in the base of voting machines, some valid ballots were mistakenly rejected due to errors in the voter-registration database, and 208 ballots were set aside because they needed further research (some of which were later determined to have been valid, post-certification, after um… further research.)

When Logan was asked about his failure to implement recommendations issued last May in an Elections Oversight Committee report, Logan said that he simply didn’t have the time:

“We had to consider what changes in polling processes were the most easily achieved in time for a brand-new election in September in a manner that could contemplate the literally thousands of election-board workers being able to absorb and comprehend those changes in time to administer the fall elections,”

This is completely consistent with what was previously explained to me in my conversations with Logan and his staff. Prior to release of the report, they had already started implementing a new voter registration system — including all new software — and their primary focus was completing this transition as smoothly as possible before the September primary and November election. They knew about problems with provisional ballots, and they knew about inefficiencies in the voter credit process… but they had to complete the implementation of the new voter registration system before they could move on to other priorities.

As Adams County Auditor Nancy McBroom (a Republican) told me, “it’s hard to wave your wand or twitch your nose and fix everything at one time.” Given unlimited resources, perhaps Logan and his staff could have addressed more issues at once… but then, he wasn’t given unlimited resources, was he?

Yes, mistakes were made. But it in evaluating this election it should be remembered that while evidence of additional errors and mishandled ballots have been trickling out for months, giving the appearance of an election department in a constant state of disarray, the majority of these errors actually occurred all at once, in an intense and compressed period time, on election day and in the first few days that followed. Whether mishandled provisional ballots were discovered and revealed on one, two, three or more occasions is immaterial, for they were all mishandled on election day. And while handfuls of misplaced ballots have been discovered on several occasions, they were all misplaced at the same time.

And in a final irony, many of the errors by King County Elections workers — which Rossi and his surrogates have attempted to spin into a tale of Democratic corruption — actually disadvantaged Christine Gregoire! Remember, if that infamous batch of “no signature on file” ballots had been properly processed, Gregoire would have won the machine recount, and Rossi would have been widely perceived as a poor loser for paying for a hand recount that would have expanded Gregoire’s lead.

Whatever.

I’ll slog through the deposition and come back with my observations later. But I think Democratic attorney David McDonald’s savvy observation likely sums up its legal impact:

“If the transcript was available this morning and they didn’t have a press conference this afternoon, my conclusion is they probably didn’t pick up much.”

For a Rossi team that has fought this contest at least as aggressively in the court of public opinion as they have in the court of a law, their silence is deafening.

Comments

  1. 1

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    WHOA Goldy–
    You said Logan wasn’t given unlimited resources. It didn’t take unlimited to do much of this but remember when Logan previously made the public comment about having insufficient resources????
    The very next day, he called a press conference and stated that Ron Sims offered him “whatever he needed”.
    You are full of shit Goldy.
    This must be becomig harder and harder for you to get up everyday and twist the truth to defend Dean Logan and Ron Sims, huh Goldy??

  2. 2

    Rick spews:

    Yes, “mistakes were made”, but they got the job done – finding enough votes to get Gregiore “elected” I have no doubt the late Richard Daley is tipping his hat to the King County crew.

  3. 3

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    At least Goldy beat TASS (err…the Seattle P-I) in posting Logan’s deposition! A day late…but let’s give him a little credit my always RIGHT friends!

  4. 6

    GS spews:

    Yup I saw on Channel 4 this morning their take on this that agreed with the Rossi side that even Dean Logan admits he does not know who won this race. The Castle doors are being kicked down, and the rats are running out the back door! Let’s just hope Queen Taxyabillions follows them out without having to be escorted out!

  5. 7

    Alan spews:

    Mr. Cynical @ 1

    I can’t follow your logic, Cyn. Sims doesn’t have unlimited resources to offer, but even if he did, they weren’t offered until after the horse left the barn. How is this Logan’s fault? As usual, you make no sense.

    Rick @ 2

    Right-wing paranoia in full bloom here. Also see post #4 for another example of right-wing irrational exuberance.

    Josef @ 5

    I wish Zits a speedy recovery, as I can’t wait to hear how she spins this … um … non-event.

  6. 9

    Disenterred spews:

    Goldy:

    Why would you write “Whatever” as a sentence and paragraph in your political blog?

    Whether you are trying to make contructive contributions to the debate, or just piss all over the other side and vent your bile for the benefit of your friends, using that word as an argument isn’t helping you. Did you know that this usage has been banned at my child’s elementary school? It’s as bad as writing “f__king fascists.”

    Are you trying to make us look bad? You are certainly succeeding.

  7. 10

    Scott spews:

    If we were to react to the news that the GOP redacted some 40 pages of the deposition the way that the GOP reacts to things, we’d conclude that there was a vast right wing conspiracy, no doubt led by Katherine Harris, to keep the truth from the voters.

    I wonder if Dino (I am not REALLY a Real Estate Broker) Rossi has a hand in this or if he’s merely become a puppit for Vance?

  8. 11

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    An awful lot of words to say “whatever”, but hey,… whatever.

    There will be a price to pay no matter what happens in court (and I’d like to mention that I have studiously avoided giving my thoughts, opinions and most importantly, predictions on the court case)
    Democrats used power to spend
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....ap26m.html

    Salient points:
    OLYMPIA — The state Legislature kicked off three months ago amid widespread predictions that the Democrats in charge would increase taxes, spend more money, and cater to the demands of political allies.

    The predictions were right.

    The Legislature passed a $26 billion operating budget, a nearly $3 billion increase over the current one, and an $8.5 billion transportation package — the largest in state history. To pay for it all, lawmakers made it more expensive to smoke, drink, drive and, for some people, to die.

    Tax increases will raise the cost of cigarettes by 60 cents a pack, liquor by $1.33 a liter and gasoline by 9.5 cents a gallon over the next four years. In addition, lawmakers reinstated an estate tax on the wealthy.

    The Democrats also handed labor unions and environmentalists some of their biggest legislative victories in years, boosting unemployment benefits for thousands of seasonal workers, approving the first-ever collective-bargaining agreement with state employees and passing one of the nation’s toughest car-emissions standards.

    No one contends that the Democrats’ budget is sustainable. Even before the plan was approved, projections showed the state could face another $1 billion shortfall two years from now.

  9. 13

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Alan/DonSux–
    Logan said Sims offered him whatever he needed to clean things up….he was referring to BEFORE the election numbnutz.
    He had made Sims and the GANG of thieves look bad the day before when he said he din’t have the resources for THIS ELECTION. Then Logan retracts the next day and praises Sims and his GANG of thieves. Logan has clearly been intimidated.

    Read the deposition Alan/DonSux. Your a lawyer. Logan just kept yakking it up…much to the chagrin of the Dem’s lawyers who desperately wanted Logan to give very brief answers.

    It must have been Logan’s SHOE SALESMAN training. Have you ever bought a pair of shoes where the shoe salesman didn’t tell you how great they looked, how good they were for your feet and just kept blabbing!! That’s Logan’s achilles heel. He really, truly believes he is the ultimate expert on Washington elections…every single aspect including statistics, systems, internal controls, management etc. even without a college degree.

    I guess it was those 2 years as Lobbyist for the Washington State Labor Council that really prepared him for this job, huh?

  10. 14

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    It’s nearly 1:15PM and the HorsesTass…errr, the Seattle P-I still hasn’t posted a single word about Logan’s deposition. Wait until Huennekens deposition comes out next…and the other KingCo Election Officials….
    Washington citizens WILL get very interested, very soon.
    And who knows…there may be a few “surprise” witnesses from the KingCo Election Division that will challenge some of Logan & Huennekens recollections because THEY ACTUALLY DID THE F***ing WORK!!

  11. 15

    chardonnay spews:

    SHOE SALESMAN’S achilles heel, pun intended huh Cynical? funny. I especially like Logans email to Ron,
    “uh ron, FYI I kinda blabbed a little more than I should have. Sorry but somehow the blogs already know what I said. but Ron, they are twisting my words. just wanted to give ya a heads up. They are coming for you.”
    what a wind bag.

  12. 16

    spews:

    cynical @ 13
    perhaps it was this training…
    *State Elections Director, SoS’s office
    *Kitsap County Clerk
    *Chief Deputy Auditor, Kitsap
    *Certification and Training Manager, Elections, SoS’s office
    *Supervisor of Elections, Kitsap
    *Various positions, Kitsap Auditor’s Office

  13. 17

    Jeff B. spews:

    Bottom line that you Democrats don’t want to admit is that the election was erroneously certified before the diligence it deserved given the close margin of victory was completed.

    You all claim that it’s too late now. Certification happened, too bad.

    That’s why rational Washingtonions on both sides of the aisle are so upset. One would think that given such an incredibly close election, Dean Logan and team would have taken the time, and had the guts and objectivity not too simplpy hide behind the certification deadline when he or at least his senior staff knew full well that errors were being discovered that easily could sway the election.

    Either way the Republicans come out ahead. If’s only a matter of when. Either the court finds that indeed that the election was erroneously certified, and the election is thrown out, or the obvious weight of Dean Logan’s and/ or his senior staff’s failure to investigate serious errors before certifying will tip the scales against the Democrats in 2006 and 2008.

    Have the guts though to admit that certification was handled as being the rubber stamp process that it typically is instead of a true representation of the state of the Governor’s race given mishandled provisionals, illegally registered felons, etc. While some of these mistakes may not be the fault of King County elections, they nonetheless carry political weight that Horses Ass denial won’t make disappear.

  14. 18

    chardonnay spews:

    how did he get from shoe salesman to lobbyist? who did he sell shoes to? he also worked in the SOS office.

  15. 19

    GS spews:

    The Seattle Times has certainly switched it’s typical behavior, something must be in the wind:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....an26m.html

    More mistakes in ballot counting

    Under oath, King County elections director says 785 provisional votes for governor were mishandled.

    and on Queen Taxusallbillions and her spendusall qourt (gulp gulp, buuurp)

    Democrats used their power to spend

    New taxes, spending and wins for labor and environmentalists made it a “Seattle session.”

    What the democrats fail to realize, is they cannot change people by the monster sin taxes they raise. They will lose tax revenue in their latest gulp of new taxes. The internet sales of Cigarettes, cigars, and alcohol will rise, and good hard working stores in Washington WILL BE HURT. They are the Business killing party!

  16. 20

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Some say, “Silence is golden” others say, “The silence is deafening”.

  17. 21

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Hear Folks–
    I have been extremely reluctant to get into a FRAUD debate because:
    1) FRAUD in the legal sense, is very difficult to prove in Washington State.
    2) FRAUD is not necessary to win this election contest.

    I also think the unnecessary FRAUD word is kind of like getting sucked into calling LEFTISTS/SOCIALISTS/MARXISTS liberals. Liberal is a compliment. In many ways, I’m a F***ING LIBERAL!

    Even with all the latest revelations, I am reluctant to get sucked into calling it FRAUD. But in my heart-of-hearts, I do believe that these LEFTIST PINHEADS F***ING CHEATED! THEY TURNED THERE BACKS ON F***ING CHEATING AND TRIED TO COVER IT UP WITH CAREFUL SPINNING AND SOME LIES!!
    THESE F***ING LEFTIST PINHEADED CHEATERS KNOW WHO THEY ARE AND THEY ARE GOING STRIGHT TO F***ING HELL!!!!!

    There now…whewwww! But was there FRAUD in the Washington State legal sense??? We’ll let the Feds and AG’s office sort that out AFTER the Election Contest is over.

  18. 22

    Wayne spews:

    The mishandled provisionals, most of which proved to be valid, were less than 0.1% of the total vote. Was King County supposed to hold up certification, and thus the whole state election, because of that? Given that there is absolutely no evidence that the incorrectly processed provisional ballots were fraudulently cast, and the vast najority of them were found to be cast by legitimate voters, this is a non-issue in the election contest. At most, Rossi can include the 120-odd unverified ballots in his “illegal ballot” calculations. Even that isn’t certain as the Republicans still have to prove the ballots were illegal, not the other way around.

    This is primarily a public relations ploy. Spin Logan’s testimony in the press and try to keep the flames of Republican outrage fanned until 2006.

  19. 23

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Even the Olympian has posted Rebecca Cook’s (from AP)article on the Logan deposition before 10:00AM this morning.

    The HorsesTass (errrrr….Seattle P-I) is looking worse and worse as every hour passes with nothing.
    NEWSPAPER???? It’s so late now, they might as well just express it right into the ARCHIVES!

  20. 24

    Goldy spews:

    Here’s what I don’t understand… why do so many of you hard core righties waste so much time on pointlessly spinning the comment threads? 90% of my readers only stop by to read what I have to say… they don’t bother reading the comment threads. So you are achieving nothing.

    Dream on guys if you think Rossi’s case is going anywhere but the toilet.

    Disenterred @9,

    “Whatever” is a commonly used conversational punctuation mark, that indicates the end of one line of thought. It often indicates a note exasperation or sarcasm. It is a colorful piece of vernacular that I frequently make use of.

    Jeff B @17,

    Statute requires elections be certified by a certain date, not whenever they happen to get it done. The law presumes the results to be accurate unless proven otherwise.

    But again, when you look at this election in the abstract, out of the context of this disputed election, it was pretty darn accurate by national standards. Laugh at that if you want, but it’s true.

    Now if Rossi can prove that mistakes and illegal votes cost him the election, then he’ll win his contest. But it’s not enough to prove uncertainty, because all elections that fall this far within the margin of error are uncertain. The statute clearly prefers finality over certainty.

    Cynical @23,

    Believe it or not, this bullshit election contest is NOT the only story out there. Why don’t you start your own newspaper or your own blog if you are so unsatisfied with editorial schedules?

  21. 26

    angryvoter spews:

    I have a Ben Franklin note for any lib who will take the bet. Judge Bridges revokes the queens certificate of election. Put your money where your mouth is…

  22. 27

    Jeff B. spews:

    Goldy @23,

    I don’t see what’s so hard to grasp here. It doesn’t really matter that the election statute says that the election must be certified by a given date. The signs on the freeway say 55 mph, but often we move with the flow of traffic at more than that speed and everything is just fine.

    If Logan and / or his staff knew there was a problem and brought that to the attention of Sam Reed before November 17th, I’m sure that Sam and Olympia would have been able to figure out a way to relax the certification date, or assist by throwing more bodies at the problem to get everything figured out before certification. Honest Washingtonions want to see an honest result. I would be fine with either candidate if we had taken the time to examine the problems. Instead, it was whisked through certification by mostly partisan officials.

    Why is had to understand that a majority of WA voters find such an obvious attempt to certify before there was clear verification of the results. I mean anyone involved in counting anything of this magnitude that came up with a result this close would have the common sense to be a lot more careful about the final posted results. We see this all the time in the sports world, in business, etc. When the results are close, common sense demands a bit more care in analyzing the results. And we are not talking about recounts here, the tabulation of the known ballots was fine, the problem was that some of the ballots were illegal ballots and King County elections was aware of this fact before certification.

    Now if you don’t see a problem with that, you’ve got to look in the mirror and ask youself if you are being intellectually honest. A clear majority of Washingtonions has looked at all the facts. While there are indeed some wingnuts who are alledging every conceivable conspiracy scenario, most people can plainly see that something is not right.

    At least admit that, even if you otherwise cling to the letter of the law for letting the result stand, or you are simply hiding behing your partisanship for Gregorie.

  23. 28

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Goldy @ 23–
    A very good friend of mine is the retired Executive Editor of a major Western City Newspaper. Newspaper Hall of Fame guy.
    I just talked with him about your recent comment. He had a good laugh. Bottom-line–The deposition of the KingCo Election Director should be a huge story. Newspapers show their true colors by when they report and where they report it….even if they report.
    No Goldy–The HorseTass (errrr Seattle P-I) silence on this story is very revealing.

    PS—My newspaper buddy HATES Bush….HATES Gregoire!
    Go Figure!

  24. 29

    GS spews:

    It’s a damn big story and soon to occupy alot more media time when it comes to trial. Stay Tuned! Don’t underestimate the power of half of Washington’s pissed off disenfranchised voters!

    Remember, count every vote and hunt them down like dogs was the democrats mantra.

    Now when the republicans are doing just that, and finding nearly 800 provisional ballots that were run through without checking validity, 95 absentees that were never counted, etc etc etc, and Queen Taxusbillions only won by 129 votes. Hell Even your hero logan stated he cannot say who the winner was!

    You call it not the only story in town

    I agree, there are really two stories in town, the election and the recent budget buster and 10 billion in tax hikes!

    You have only chosen to talk about the election however!

  25. 30

    CynicalSucks spews:

    av @ 25

    That’d be like taking candy from a baby. We won’t stoop to your level. Keep the money. Donate it to the candidate of your choice – for 2008!

  26. 31

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    2:20 PM and still no report about the Logan deposition by the HorsesTass (errrrrr…Seattle P-I).

    Wait….here’s a newsflash on the P-I website–

    DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN!!!

  27. 32

    CynicalSucks spews:

    While there are indeed some wingnuts who are alledging every conceivable conspiracy scenario

    And you’re one of them!

    And we are not talking about recounts here, the tabulation of the known ballots was fine, the problem was that some of the ballots were illegal ballots and King County elections was aware of this fact before certification.

    Gee King County is pretty big. So big it must be the only county in the great state of WA!!!

    you are simply hiding behing your partisanship for Gregorie.

    Puhhleeeze, Rossi partisan…

  28. 35

    Marilyn spews:

    For Scott@10:

    Re your comment “I wonder if Dino (…)Rossi has a hand in this or if he’s merely a puppet for Vance”:

    Actually, I wonder if Vance isn’t playing Rossi like a violin.
    Rossi could hang up this nonsense tomorrow and get on with running against Maria Cantwell; however, Vance keeps encouraging him to stay in the ring, even as a chance of victory recedes further and further into the horizon. As new revelations arise, the “proportional analysis” argument, when applied to all counties that had errors (Whitman, Stevens, Adams, Walla Wall, King, and now Pierce) would all but obliterate even Rossi’s 260 vote “win”. In the meantime, Vance keeps touting Rossi’s denial that Rossi wants to run against Cantwell. Vance has everything to gain if Rossi doesn’t want to run against Cantwell – Vance wants to run against Cantwell and will do anything he can to keep Rossi out of that race, even to the point of pushing Rossi to pursue the myth that even though we can’t tell who actually “won” the Governor’s race (can’t tell who actually lost either under that scenario), that Rossi is somehow the “legitimate” governor. I didn’t vote for Rossi; however, I don’t think he looks like a sore loser so much as I just think it is past that to the point where he looks downright pathetic. I almost feel sorry for him. And..the more pathetic he looks the less he looks like a winner; all to Vance’s benefit.

  29. 36

    Alan spews:

    Scott @ 10

    I do think the GOP’s redacting 40 pages is very interesting. We can safely assume that whatever is in those 40 pages doesn’t help Rossi’s cause. Otherwise, why would they redact it?

  30. 37

    prr spews:

    Torridjoe at 33.

    Considering his county is the one that said it was close enough to overturn the previous 2 victories by Rossi, and now he is saying he’s had so many screw up in his department that he has no idea, I would say this is pretty much the crux of the argument.

  31. 38

    Alan spews:

    prr @ 32

    There is no requirement in the statutes that a county auditor or election director know who won in order for the election to be valid. If you think otherwise, please cite some actual law, instead of spouting out of your ass.

  32. 39

    spews:

    prr @ 36

    *Rossi has no victories. He is 0-1 in gubernatorial elections. It seems you don’t understand that.

    *You put words in Logan’s mouth that were not said. He said nothing about “so many screw ups.” He has no idea because the election was razor-thin. That cannot be changed.

  33. 40

    prr spews:

    Torridoe,

    He has no idea because his department is a ship without a captain.

    Walking around denying this fact does not help your argument.

    You constantly ask, show me proof. Dean Logan continues to keep coming up with all the proof you need to prove that he the fuck-up many assert him to be and you just keep turning a blind eye to this.

  34. 41

    bigbyrd spews:

    Goldy,

    How do you know that it was the GOP who ‘redacted’ that document?

    Inquiring minds want to know.

  35. 42

    spews:

    prr @ 39
    “it’s a fact” that the department is a ship without a captain? Did he get fired and I missed it? Logan is the director of KCREALS. Now THAT is a fact.

    I’m not turning a blind eye to any of KC’s mistakes. What you continue to fail to grasp, is that they provide no mechanism to change the election, nor any reason to do so. That is the evidence I seek from you: what specifically do you believe will cause Bridges to invalidate the election, and on what legal grounds?

  36. 43

    Mrs. Cynical spews:

    Hi All,
    You should see how worked up Mr. C is right now. I didn’t think a person could get so high without actually taking drugs. I may ask his shrink to evaluate him for bipolar disorder!

    In any case, what’s the big deal? It is just a bunch of talk, talk, talk. No wonder the PI doesn’t care. I mean, was Logan supposed to watch every move made by every elections employee for a month? I thought Condi Rice’s testimony before the 911 commission was much more damning!

    You all try to blog nicely, now. You hear?

    Hugs and Kisses!

  37. 44

    Donnageddon spews:

    It is wonderful to see a gaggle of sore losers venting their spleens. It’s done, get over it. Isn’t that what we heard repeatededly in 2000?

    Hmmmm. HA HA HA HA HA

  38. 45

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Mrs. Cynical–
    I do enjoy your companionship dear.
    You are a sweet dumpling.
    Why its like I get 3 woman all rolled up into one massive body!

    As for the bipolar disorder:
    I’m fine, relaxed, calm, totally under control, cool as the underside of the pillow but I do get a little WORKED UP WHENEVER THESE LEFTIST/SOCIALIST/MARXIST F***ING LOSERS START TRYING TO DEFEND DEAN LOGAN!!
    HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
    Thanks for those Yoga and Meditation tapes dear!

  39. 46

    Goldy spews:

    bigbyrd @41,

    I never said that the GOP redacted the pages, I said that they supplied a redacted version.

  40. 48

    chardonnay spews:

    Dean, Bill, Ron & Crissy, stick a fork in all of them, they’re done. lefty’s are in denial and need therapy. logan was in charge of it all and ron sims was in charge of him. blaming innocent underlings doesn’t fool anyone. lets get the people that took home the ballots they printed for the hell of it.

  41. 49

    Donnageddon spews:

    Cheap Whine wishes to start from the top. OK Lets get Bush and Rumsfield, put em in court under oath, and ship them to The Hague!

    YESSS!!

    Sore losers.

  42. 50

    jpgee spews:

    Marylin @ 35 You don’t get it Marylin. Vance has no say in the matter now. Dino has no say in this issue now. The republican state party has no say in this issue now. It is 100% in the hands of the crooks at BIAW to do what they please now and for the next 3.5 years if the election is thrown out.

  43. 51

    dj spews:

    Mr. Cynical seems so obsessed with the fact that Dean Logan was a shoe salesman in high school.

    Does that make Mr. Cynical guilty of second degree podophilia?

  44. 52

    Jeff B. spews:

    RCW 29A.60.200

    “The county canvassing board shall proceed to verify the results from the precincts and the absentee ballots. The board shall execute a certificate of the results of the primary or election signed by all members of the board or their designees. Failure to certify the returns, if they can be ascertained with reasonable certainty, is a crime under RCW 29A.84.720.”

  45. 53

    chardonnay is a burnt out shell spews:

    Chardonnay, the next term that your hill billy (GWB) deserves is 20-life!! Maybe he can be in an ajoining cell with you and Cynical!! Sweet Life….

  46. 54

    chardonnay is a burnt out shell spews:

    angryvoter @ 26 which lobbyist’s credit card did you get the cash advance for the $100 from? Everyone knows that republicans only deal with debt and borrowing. Or maybe you borrowed it from your children! “That’s ok honey, I promise to pay you back!!! (sure I do)”

  47. 56

    headless lucy spews:

    OK. I’ll ask. What does “redact” mean? And could we find a less anal and Republican sounding word to use?

  48. 57

    Don is an even bigger indoctrinated tool spews:

    “Over two days of questioning last week in a Seattle law office by Republican and Democratic attorneys, Logan defended King County’s election system and his staff, saying there was neglect in the handling of some ballots but not any misconduct.” Seattle Times

    Hmm… they just proved neglegence, straight from the mouth of Dean himself. I remember that as being on reason to set aside the election, but of course Goldy won’t accept it and will just keep farting in the wind.

  49. 59

    Donnageddon spews:

    Lucy, redact is from the Latin “redactus” meaning to purge of meaningful content. This is widly used in Right Wing circles when information regarding Saudia Arabia and the project for a New American Century or the leak of a CIA Operative by Karl Rove. Additionally the illegal funding of the war in Iraq from funds approved for capturing Bin Laden.

    Redacting is a Republican’s best tool of power.

  50. 60

    dj spews:

    DAEBIT @ 57

    Neglect does not necessarily imply negligence.

    The election codes (RCW 29a) make no mention of negligence. But, in the RCW, in general, some types (but not all types) of negligence can constitute misconduct. Here is an example from RCW 50 (edited for brevity) that shows how negligence can be considered misconduct and circumstances in which it is not considered misconduct. (This is a very different part of the RCW, but I think it serves as a concrete example of the ways misconduct and negligence are used).

    RCW 50.04.294
    Misconduct — Gross misconduct.
    (1) “Misconduct” includes, but is not limited to, the following conduct by a claimant:

    (c) Carelessness or negligence that causes or would likely cause serious bodily harm to the employer or a fellow employee; or

    (d) Carelessness or negligence of such degree or recurrence to show an intentional or substantial disregard of the employer’s interest.


    (3) “Misconduct” does not include:

    (a) Inefficiency, unsatisfactory conduct, or failure to perform well as the result of inability or incapacity;

    (b) Inadvertence or ordinary negligence in isolated instances; or

    (c) Good faith errors in judgment or discretion.

    (4) “Gross misconduct” means a criminal act in connection with an individual’s work for which the individual has been convicted in a criminal court, or has admitted committing, or conduct connected with the individual’s work that demonstrates a flagrant and wanton disregard of and for the rights, title, or interest of the employer or a fellow employee.

    A couple hundred ballots out of 875,000 seems to fit well under 3a, IMHO.

  51. 61

    dj spews:

    Oops, @ 60 I meant to say

    A couple hundred ballots out of 875,000 seems to fit well under 3b or 3c.

  52. 62

    SeahawksFan spews:

    From a casual observers viewpoint, this election was run quite scrupulously. Dean Logan is an honorable person and that shows through in his testimony. There really is no way that Rossi can prove that he won. It just seems like a mad power grab on his part, when most people in this state just wants to move on.

  53. 63

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    It is now almost 7:40 PM and the HorsesTass (errr..Seattle P-I) has yet to mention the Logan deposition.

    However they do have important top stories like:
    1) Herd of buffalo corralled on a tennis court
    2) Man who put mom in freezer had an odd history (wonder if it was Dean “Weird Al Yankovic lookalike” Logan???)

    And many more stories even less memorable.
    Tass wonders why their circulation has plummetted??

  54. 64

    Don is an even bigger indoctrinated tool spews:

    SeahawksFan @ 62

    Let me guess another poll believing liberal?

  55. 66

    All tools here and yet there are still screws loose spews:

    SeahawksFan @ 65

    “…when most people in this state just wants to move on.”

    Were you just breaking wind when you said that? or were you backing your claim with a slanted poll?
    I’ve seen roughly 4-5 polls and none of them match, some say they are for overturning the election, others are in favor of leaving it as is, and still another was almost a 50/50 split.

  56. 67

    SeahawksFan spews:

    All Tools Here @66 – I do not have a poll to back up what I said. But my grandmother memaw could care less about this election. Most people just want good schools, a crime free neightborhood, and a warm and kind family. You can tell just by reading the deposition that Mr. Logan is a good person. He took his work seriously. I don’t see you talking about the hundreds of thousands of votes that he counted correctly? That’s something to think about, now isn’t it?

  57. 69

    All tools here and yet there are still screws loose spews:

    SeahawksFan @ 67

    Your rose colored glasses are giving me a headache you can have them back. Just so you know he didn’t count ballots his underlings did, I think ultimately he is the (slightly less guilty)scapegoat, however he should have come clean earlier instead of letting all the crap fly in his deposition.

    By the way in a race this close you are mostly right it is the ballots counted correctly that ultimately should count… but this is King County we count the improper ones too.

  58. 70

    AllHatAndNoHorse spews:

    seahawksfan,

    there is a radical right wing faction, that is stirring the pot.
    They have only one agenda, to put rossi in, whether he was the winner or not.
    They do not care about voters, they care about cutting taxes on business,lowering wages, and breaking unions.
    They are americas enemy, as sure as is osama bin laden.
    I think they should have their own ground to reign over.
    A large piece of antarctia that just freed itself, comes to mind.

  59. 71

    AllHatAndNoHorse spews:

    Jesus, what a bunch of ass kissin suck ups over there at unsoundpolitics.
    I dont see one dissenting opinion on that site.
    When someone DOES object, they ban the person!?
    What a shitty blog!
    No wonder this site gets more traffic, who wants to be told what they think?

  60. 72

    chardonnay spews:

    allhatnohead,
    and what do you say when there is a dissenting opinion here? Hmmmm? you

    cybil @ 53, I couldn’t think of two funnier people to be around. thanks, I’ll take that as a compliment, again.
    Cybil, you are so good to me.

    see post #65, don is a tool @ 64. say what, Don is a tool?
    lol, it’s working babe. that is funny.

  61. 73

    torridjoe spews:

    allhat @ 71
    as much as I think HA is the blog with more integrity and brainpower, SP has far more hits, and David acknowledges that. He does fine, though.

    In reference to negligence–RCW 29A 68.070 is pretty explicit about how negligence can set aside an election: if it was done with the intent to make the candidate who didn’t have the most votes, the winner. The actions of KC’s elections team, while certainly non-optimal in several ways, has yet to indicate ANY evidence of intentional misconduct–that is, an attempt to sway the election.

    That’s what seems most beyond the revote crowd: in Washington, you don’t set aside an election because some people messed up. Either you have to show that bad votes specifically turned the election, or people did things wrong on purpose to help someone win. Beyond that, we take the best results we can get before certification, and move on.

  62. 74

    zip spews:

    SeaHawksFan @ 65

    Glad you asked about the poll, here it is:

    I believe everything I read on HorsesAss because…
    A. I am descended from sheep.
    B. I am a hypocrite Seattle elite lefty, and am quite cool.
    C. The Dominionists are in control of everybody’s mind but mine.
    D. Fck off, neo con wingnut!

  63. 75

    Donnageddon spews:

    Seahawksfan, no need to fear, what we have here is sour grapes. They cannot understand how their leader failed them. They will soon learn their leader is a incompetent asswipe who wanted to destroy them along with every thing they hold dear. Dino was a Dinosaur even before he crept in the tar pits.

  64. 76

    Donnageddon spews:

    Hi! I am zipiddy Doodaa!

    I disbelieve everything I read on HorsesAss because…
    A. I am descended from sheeple.
    B. I am a hypocrite Seattle elite moneyed rightwing asswipe, and am quite unlayable.
    C. Logic and Reason is in control of everybody’s mind but mine.
    D. Fuck off, middle class white person with a job!!
    E I am an tool for the facist right.

  65. 77

    Terry J spews:

    Goldy makes a post which says “They screwed it up by the numbers, but it does not matter because this is government in King County and allowances must be made as they are unable to fix all the problems because there were so many problems and they did not have unlimited resources to fix them all at once.”

    Translation: King County can’t be expected to do much right for the forseeable future because they lack sufficient resources.

    In Goldy’s world there is no expecptation of competence from King County, no expectation of acurracy, no expectation of accountability, and no expectacion of credibility. King County gets a pass.

    Other counties may have made errors of one sort or another, and their errors must be attacked.

  66. 79

    All tools here and yet there are still screws loose spews:

    Don, layla, billybob, cybil, whoever your paranoid phsyche tells you that you are today @ 76

    I can definitely tell that the answer is not C because I know I’m not a democrat. I’ll take “F: None of the above these are all democrat traits, thanks for playing.”

  67. 80

    dj spews:

    Terry J @ 77

    Are you babbling?

    Stay away from rave bars, or keep off the internet until the shit wears off.

  68. 81

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    Stay away from rave bars, or keep off the internet until the shit wears off. -Comment by dj— 4/27/05 @ 12:01 am

    See? That’s a PERFECT microcosm of the kid mentality/thinking done here.

    An ADULT with ADULT responsibilities would never think of a rave, much less attend one and by “shit” we assume he means illegal drugs so ditto the responsible adults.

  69. 84

    Cybil spews:

    Has tools but screws still loose @ 79

    That one isn’t mine either, but once again, I’ll happily take credit! :D

    I think “G” fits you better: Duped by Ayn Rand.

  70. 85

    Cybil spews:

    dj @ 60

    dj, my friend, RCW Title 50 definitions apply only to determining eligibility for unemployment benefits; and do not apply to elections.

    All: here is a little lesson in Basic Law.

    1. In the absence of a statutory definition, courts will interpret a word or phrase according to common usage, also known as vernacular, or dictionary definition. In other words, judges look in Webster’s, not Black’s, not figure out what it means.

    2. When looking something up in RCWs (statutes) or WACs (regulations), always check to see if there’s a “definitions” section. There usually is. The definitions given in this section are what’s called “legal terms of art.” This meaning is often different from, and always supersedes, any definition in Webster’s, Black’s, or RCW/WAC general definitions; and applies only to the subject matter of the specific RCW or WAC Title or Chapter.

    3. Even if there isn’t a specialized definition in the RCW or WAC, there may be one in the case law through precedent or legal usage.

    4. As tricky as definitions are, interpreting statutes and regulations is even trickier. Whole encyclopedias have been written on this subject, e.g. Sutherland on Statutory Construction. The rules are manifold and complicated.

    5. What this all boils down to you’re usually better off to be ignorant than to have a little knowledge of law. This is like car repair: It’s hard to go wrong by knowing nothing about what’s under the hood because your ignorance forces you to hire a mechanic, whereas knowing a little bit may tempt you to start tinkering and make things worse. There’s a reason why law school takes three years: There’s so many wrong paths you can go down that, if you try to solve legal problems simply by Googling the question, you almost always will get the wrong answer.

  71. 86

    Cybil spews:

    Seahawks fan,

    Here is what you will NEVER hear from the righty trolls:

    1. Any discussion of Florida (2000) or Ohio (2004), where partisan GOP officials rigged election procedures in favor of Bush. In comparison, King County’s failings were minor and inadvertent.

    2. Rossi’s election lawsuit, and no small part of his campaign, is being paid for by the Building Industry Association of Washington, a trade group of real estate developers and builders. BIAW gets most of its money (about $5 million a year) by taking 20% off the top of L & I taxes paid by its members. These taxes were intended for injured workers. This practice, by the way, is legal. Although not for long, with Democrats in control of the Legislature.

    3. BIAW claimed nearly 1,000 ex-felons voted illegally (mostly in King County), but a review of this list by Democratic attorneys revealed a 70% error rate; hundreds of people on this list were convicted as juveniles and did not lose their voting rights, and therefore their votes are legal votes entitled to be counted.

    4. With respect to ex-felons who did cast illegal votes, Rossi’s backers DO NOT want the court to force these voters to testify who they voted for. They want the court to allocate these votes to the candidates by a method called “proportional analysis,” which relies on theoretical statistics instead of actual facts.

    5. Most of the ineligible ex-felons who have talked to reporters said they voted for Rossi. In all probability, Rossi got far more illegal votes from felons than Gregoire did. This, of course, is very detrimental to Rossi’s legal case, and his supporters and lawyers are trying to get around it by citing studies from other states purporting to show that ex-felons in those states tend to vote Democratic. There are at least two reasons why these studies are not reliable to show who the ineligible felons voted for in our governor’s race: (1) Washington has a much lower percentage of minorities in its prison population than these states, and white males tend to vote Republican; and (2) before running for governor, Gregoire as Attorney General was the state’s chief law enforcement officer, not something that would endear her to the average felon. As mentioned above, the available anecdotal evidence strongly suggests the felon voters did, in fact, heavily favor Rossi.

    6. Knowing this is probably the case, Rossi’s lawyers want to keep illegal votes that benefitted Rossi from being admitted into evidence so the judge will only consider illegal votes that benefitted Gregoire. This legal maneuver, regardless of whether it is accepted or rejected by the judge, proves they’re not interested in finding out who really won the election but only in putting Rossi in power at all costs.

    7. Four pro-Rossi counties counted 1,796 provisional ballots without checking signatures or determining the eligibility of the voters. These ballots more than offset the number of ballots that were improperly handled by King County. In addition, Gregoire led Rossi by only 16% in King County, whereas Rossi’s lead over Gregoire in pro-Rossi counties was often double that — around 30% to 35%.

    8. Finally, what Rossi’s supporters NEVER mention when complaining about King County’s mistakes is these mistakes helped Rossi. If King County hadn’t misplaced ballots, and had counted all the valid ballots in the first run-through, Rossi would have lost the first recount and the Republicans, not the Democrats, would have had to pay for the hand recount.

  72. 87

    Cybil spews:

    GOP tool @ 64

    Last poll I saw showed that support for a revote has dropped to 32%, less than half of what it was in January. Most people are tired of hearing about it. Many Repubs think it’s a lost cause. How many are contributing to the GOP’s legal fund? Almost none … the money is coming from BIAW, and almost nowhere else. The GOP rank-and-file know a bad investment when they see one.

  73. 88

    angryvoter spews:

    Jackass @54,

    Care to take the bet? Didnt think so… I didnt borrow it from my children (dont have any), I dont support pyramid schemes like you do with Social Security.

  74. 89

    Stop their CATerwauling, spay/neuter ALL Pet Libs spews:

    That is very funny. . . you discussing Rave and drugs -Comment by dj— 4/27/05 @ 1:22 am

    The last refuge of a hapless lib: the PeeWee Herman defense.

  75. 90

    Chris spews:

    Wayne@22

    Your an idiot. What % of the margin of victory are these f’d up ballots? Who gives a shit what percentage of the total ballots they are? It only matters in relation to the margin of victory.

    Pull your head out of your ass.

  76. 91

    Alan spews:

    Chris @ 90

    No problem. If you can prove Rossi got more legal votes than Gregoire, he’s our governor. But nothing less is sufficient — that’s the law.

  77. 92

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    Alan–
    “APPEARS” you mean…
    You know there is no way to pull out specific illegal ballots once they are comingled. There needs to be a remedy or anyone could stuff a ballotbox with illegal ballots, obviously change the outcome….but nobody could prove it.

    Stay tuned for Monday May 2nd in Chelan..

    We’ll see who’s correct.
    If DonSux/Alan/many other names is correct, Rossi has a tough go.

    If the R’s are correct, Gregoire is toast.

  78. 93

    Puddybud spews:

    Cybil:

    1.) Get over Florida. No proof of Ohio? Remember the democrats control the cities, where the problems occurred. Get it?
    2.) What are you upset at BIAW? Because Jackoff.pork has competition?
    3.) I saw the democrats admit to 700+ felons voting in King County. Didn’t the county prosecutor already start with the first 200 and are looking at another 200 soon?
    4.) I thought your vote was confidential. You think felons will tell the truth? They are illegal.
    5.) Ditto to #4
    6.) Wait a minute. The democrats said this was the best election ever. Now they say problems? Huh?
    7.) Provisional ballot problems? Don’t they have cities in them like Spokane and Pullman?
    8.) I won’t even talk about this. Dumb one!!!

    Pudster