Bowling for Dollars (Part II)

According to the Seattle P-I, bowling is hip:

Brisk business has prompted the Garage’s owners to propose adding six to eight lanes, plus more lounge space, on what is now their parking lot.

“Fourteen lanes just kind of handcuffs us a lot of the time,” said Mike Bitondo, the Garage’s managing partner, who owns the lanes with Alex and Jill Rosenast. “When people walk up on a Friday night and they have to wait an hour or two hours or three hours for a lane, that’s just as frustrating for me as it is for them.”

Apparently a new wave of trendy, upscale bowling alleys is revitalizing the industry, bringing new life to a sport that’s long been one of America’s most popular. Imagine that. Bowling alley proprietors capturing new business by catering to, um… bowlers.

In reading about bowling’s urban-chic resurgence, I was reminded of a piece I wrote way back in May of 2004 — only my sixth post on HA — in which I abused the state’s bowling alley owners for insisting that legalizing slot machines was the key to their survival. We were in the midst of Tim Eyman’s I-892 campaign, the slot machine initiative that eventually went down to a landslide defeat at the polls. Bowling alley operators had became fixtures on local talk radio arguing that they’d be forced to shutter their doors unless voters approved slots. I was um, dubious.

I remember one particular phone call from a woman who pleaded for slot machines on behalf of the bowling alley that had been in her family for three generations. She claimed she just couldn’t compete against the tribal casinos anymore, and if I-892 didn’t pass, she would probably shutter the family business.

Now, at the risk of sounding unsympathetic, I’d like to impart a bit of wisdom from one small businessperson to another:


And perhaps, instead of trying to compete with the tribal casinos, you should spend a little time and effort promoting… gee, I don’t know… bowling?!

Saying that bowling alleys need slot machines to compete with tribal casinos is like saying Chuck E. Cheese’s needs a liquor license and strippers to compete with the Deja Vu.

The point is, if you can’t make ends meet enticing people to chuck balls at pins, then perhaps you’re in the wrong business. Or sadly, perhaps bowling just isn’t a viable industry anymore.

That may sound harsh… but that’s capitalism. And until the tribes start building bowling alleys instead of casinos, I don’t want to hear anymore whining about unfair competition.

And whad’ya know? Two years later, people are waiting in line for three hours to bowl at hip new urban alleys. Ain’t capitalism great?


  1. 1


    I have a few friends that always went to bowling alleys to pick up chics and they noticed that an insurgence of people in bowling alleys when the smoking ban was passed. Families found entertainment in bowling that otherwise was smoky unappealing to them.

    Has anyone else found that the smoking ban has helped bowling alleys? or just made the neighborhood bowling alley smoker angry?

  2. 2

    Tree Frog Farmer spews:

    Goldy, you were merely pointing out another wingnut attempt at Corporate Welfare. . . . .

  3. 4

    Gordon spews:

    Excellent post Goldy. Before the I-892 thing came up I remember watching the Gambling Commission on TVW debating the future of electronic pull tab machines. Ultimately, the proponents of these pull tab machines were rebuffed and denied by the commission. I don’t know what exactly it was about it but it gave me a warm and fuzzy feeling about government in this state. The commission seemed exceptionally competent, and I was quite proud of their principled stand aginst the proliferation of these machines. The proponents had very weak arguments on their side. It essentially boiled down to arguments about increasng the “sizzle” of the pull tab experience. The commission would hear none of it because ultimately the electronic pull tab machine was essentially a slot machine in which you could pump hundreds of dollars without ever cashing out. At least with pull tabs there is a natural physical contraint. You can’t play any faster than you can feed quarters in the machine. I have seen people pump $50 or more at a quarter a pull. Kind of a funny site really. And if these devices were electronic then these types of people would become nothing more than slot junkies. And the commission understood this very well.

    Shortly after this push back by the commission, the I-892 initiative came out. I always assumed it was the same pro electronic pull tab people trying to do an end run around the commission. Glad that initiative failed in this state.

    Mark @1 I think you are right about the impact of the smoking ban. Bowling always struck me as more or less a family oriented type activity (young families or teen hangouts). De-sleazify the environment and you will draw a bigger crowd.

  4. 5

    Jack spews:

    goldy – your ego is running a field

    on site gaming would have helped many businesses, and the voters said no – what is new in blue nose Washington

    this place – the Garage – is perfectly positioned on C. Hill the booming center of New Seattle’s amazing new yuppie money and leisure class – I am expert, I live and work in the middle of it

    few bowling alleys have such a position or potential – you are silly sometimes

    and i think they are part of a giant bar – get drunk and bowl, drop 100.00 on a fun night and then go home and screw sodmebody

    why would it have been such a stretch for those same folks to play video poker

    silly ego on your part goldy – get with reality and back to hardball politics which bring back democracy – that is your forte

  5. 6

    Mike Webb SUCKS spews:

    Moonbat! extraordinaire Tree Frog Farmer says:

    Goldy, you were merely pointing out another wingnut attempt at Corporate Welfare. . . . .

    11/24/2006 at 11:25 pm

    Help me understand Moonbat!ism. How is this an attempt at Corporate Welfare? You getting paid for your worthless attempt of working is truly corporate welfare!

  6. 7

    My Left Foot spews:

    That sound of rushing, whistling air is the breeze passing through the ears of the empty headed MWS. Never has one individual, in the history of HA, claimed so much intelligence and knowledge with so little to back it up. The extent of his egotistical self love knows no bounds and is equaled only by the depth of his total ignorance of any and all reasonable thought.

    Funny how that works.

  7. 8

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    Hey Goldy, my understanding is strip joints can’t sell liquor and all you can get in those places is soda pop for $30 a pitcher … I’m not sure … ask our redneck friends on the other side of the political aisle who frequent those dives … maybe Welsher knows …

  8. 9

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    5, 6

    Now that we’ve established you wingnuts are for MORE GAMBLING please explain how that (or any of your other fucked up ideas) is GOOD for our COMMUNITY?

  9. 10

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Finally, here’s some smart thinkin’ at the PI. Let’s have fucking bus drivers weigh in on safety policies for construction sites.

    Here’s an easy quiz for you amateur engineers out there. What’s wrong with this phrase?: “…more than a million foot-pounds of force…” Is that what you amateurs out there call “out of the box thinking”?

    But at least they’re suggesting that somebody with a fucking license set policy. Too bad Tamama Hardy doesn’t have a license; maybe Matt Ammon would still be alive if she did.

    Does anybody think that we ought to focus on the actual cause of the accident after experts determine exactly what happened? Or should we just “do something” that feels good?

  10. 11

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Rabbit @ 9 – I’m a big supporter of gambling. I think gambling is fucking great. What other activity is a direct “tax” on being stoopid? The more stoopid people gamble, the less that The Producers will be forced to pay in taxes.

  11. 12

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    MTR’s Moonbat Quiz:

    How many of you think “investing” and “gambling” are the same thing?

  12. 13

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I don’t know if gambling would have helped bowling alleys. At some point the gaming market has to get saturated. I mean, people have only so much money, and you can’t get growing gambling revenues forever …

    What IS clear is that Eyman was lying through his teeth when he promised Washington voters major property tax reductions. All you have to do is run a few numbers. A typical payout on slots is 90% to 95%, and studies show customers shy away from slot machines when the payout drops below 85%. So, to raise $400 million a year for the state, based on a 10% tax on slot revenues, Washington residents would have to chuck $27 billion a year into slot machines. That’s about 12% to 13% of ALL PERSONAL INCOME for the entire state! That’s about $3,900 for every man, woman, and child in the state … that means a typical family of four would have to drop $1,300 a month into slot machines! And for what? For property tax relief averaging about $150 a year per household. Not much of a fucking bargain for Washington citizens. No wonder voters smashed this turkey at the polls!

    BTW, we didn’t hear a whisper from Eyman this election cycle. Did Michael Dunmire tire of throwing money down the Eyman rat hole? Is Eyman’s initiative juggernaut kaput, bogged down in the snows of the Russian interior, as it were? Good fucking riddance to a useless watch salesman!

  13. 14

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    13 (continued)

    It’s easy to be a wingnut — all you have to do is “suspend belief,” immerse yourself in the story line, and take the grossly implausible as gospel truth. Should be easy for people who get all their “information” from action-hero flicks.

  14. 15

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    12 Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: How many of you think “investing” and “gambling” are the same thing? 11/25/2006 at 9:01 am

    A recent Roger Rabbit Poll revealed that 99.9999% of all rednecks prefer gambling to investing. Now pay your gambling debt, welsher!!!

  15. 16

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    11 Mark The Redneck KENNEDY says: Rabbit @ 9 – I’m a big supporter of gambling. I think gambling is fucking great. 11/25/2006 at 8:58 am

    So you’re only against paying when you lose?

  16. 17

    headless lucy spews:

    re10: Deflection doesn’t work. If you say a problem is definitely somewhere, then I have a strong suspicion that you KNOW where the real problem is — and it’s elsewhere.

    The construction company taking cheap shortcuts and a case where hiring union workers would have prevented this tragedy would be my first guesses as to the real source of the problem. The base on that derrick was built non-standard AND was designed by the construction company building the project. Who authorized changing the design? That person would be the author of this disaster, not the inspector.

    I’d start with my faultfinding there: With the person who authorized that change. That’s where you’ll find your rotten apple. Why are YOU starting with this unwarranted finger pointing? What’s your real interest in this?

    Who are you protecting?

  17. 19

    Mark The Redneck KENNEDY spews:

    Loosey – I’m glad you’re here. I need some more quotes for the collection.

    In your post at 17, you say that non union workers are the cause. Can you expand on that bit of wisdom?

  18. 20

    headless lucy spews:

    re 19: In many of your posts you’ve suggested vaginas are the problem. Could you expand on that a bit?

  19. 22

    headless lucy spews:

    By a process of elimination I’ve arrived at the conclusion that the construction company is responsible for this disaster. I think I’ll find out who they are and check their L&I record.

  20. 23

    John Barelli spews:

    “Saying that bowling alleys need slot machines to compete with tribal casinos is like saying Chuck E. Cheese’s needs a liquor license and strippers to compete with the Deja Vu.”

    Well, it would give MTR someplace he would feel comfortable, if they ever toss him out of “Rick’s”.

    Actually, having eaten the “pizza” at Chuck E. Cheese, it might be an improvement. Why inflict that stuff on unsuspecting children when we can feed it to booze-filled reprobates?

  21. 24

    SeeIToldYouSo! spews:


    Court shocker: 10 months for kiddie porn producer
    Democrat activist faced 81 years in jail on charges involving kids as young as 6

    Democrat community leader who would “offer a homily during worship services” and facilitated his congregation’s “opening our doors to all people regardless of sexual orientation” has been given a slap on the hand after pleading guilty to extensive child pornography offenses involving children as young as six.

    Authorities say Andrew Douglas Reed, 53, who reported for an abbreviated jail term just a few weeks ago, had pleaded guilty to a page-long list of counts of 2nd-degree sexual exploitation of a minor.

    Court records in the Asheville, N.C., case said he admitted that he would “record, develop and duplicate material containing a visual representation of a minor engaging in sexual activity.” That activity is defined by state law as including masturbation, intercourse and “touching – in apparent sexual stimulation or sexual abuse – of the genitals, pubic area or buttocks.”

    However, instead of the 967 months in jail – nearly 81 years – for which he was liable, Judge Robert Lewis, another Democrat, gave him, in a plea bargain with the office of District Attorney Ron Moore, who was elected as a Democrat, a 10-12 month sentence.

    And even that seemed regrettable, according to a number of letters of recommendation offered by other Democrat leaders of the community to the court on his behalf.

    His offenses involved a long list of counts that he used the Internet to collect and share graphic child pornography – mostly involving children as young as six who were filmed “engaged in sex acts with adults or other children,” according to a local news report.

    State investigators said Reed used an e-mail account to post 169 images and three movies containing child pornography on file-sharing networks over the last several years.

    Ken Bagwell, whose “Heads Up America” radio program has delved into the appropriateness of that sentence, said there’s a difference between taking such material from the Internet “and getting your jollies or whatever these sickos do” and actually producing the material.

    “You acquire the kid, you abuse the kid on camera, and get a 10-month sentence?” he asked. “I just cannot believe it.”

    The offenses – 15 counts – to which Reed pleaded guilty were victimizing “the absolutely youngest most defenseless people out there,” said Bagwell . “It just makes me want to gag to see what is happening.”

    He said he especially was concerned about civic leaders offering their support for a man who now is part of the state’s “Sex Offender Control Program” and will have to get approval for his residence and is not allowed to “socialize or communicate with individuals under the age of eighteen (18) in work or social activities unless accompanied by a responsible adult who is aware of the abusive patterns and is approved in writing by the supervising officer.”

    “We should ask these people, ‘Are you telling me you are supporting this?'” Bagwell said.

    The court report noted that under the plea agreement, “That defendant will plead guilty to all 15 counts and the state agrees that they will be consolidated into four counts for sentencing.”

    The North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation had worked on a sting for more than a year to stop his operations, authorities said.

    Reed, who also worked as a columnist for the Asheville Citizen Times, often wrote in support of the “gay” agenda in the region.

    State records show he was brought into the prison system on Nov. 15. And when he gets out, he cannot “linger, loiter nor spend time at locations where persons under eighteen (18) years of age are likely to be present, including but not limited to: parks, playgrounds, school yards, arcades or places frequented by children(s) activities and such similar places whose purpose is the care, entertainment or education of such persons under eighteen (18) years of age.”

    He also won’t be allowed to work as a volunteer or employee for any organization that serves children, but he will have to go through psychological treatment and go through a sexual abuse treatment program.

  22. 25

    SeeIToldYouSo! spews:

    Anti-Religion Extremist Dawkins Advocates Eugenics
    Says Nazi regime’s genocidal project “may not be bad”

    By Hilary White

    LONDON, November 21, 2006 – A leading international anti-religion crusader and supporter of Darwinian theory, Dr. Richard Dawkins, has said that the pseudo-science of eugenics that drove the Nazi regime’s genocidal project “may not be bad.”

    In a letter to the editor of Scotland’s Sunday Herald, Dawkins argues that the time has come to lay this spectre to rest. Dawkins writes that though no one wants to be seen to be in agreement with Hitler on any particular, “if you can breed cattle for milk yield, horses for running speed, and dogs for herding skill, why on Earth should it be impossible to breed humans for mathematical, musical or athletic ability?”

    Dawkins holds the Charles Simonyi Chair in the Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, but is best known as one of the world’s most outspoken current opponents of religious belief, giving lectures and interviews and writing articles in which “fundamentalist” Christianity is among his favourite targets.

    “I wonder whether, some 60 years after Hitler’s death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons. Or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them,” Dawkins wrote Sunday.

    Dawkins is also a leader of the movement to gain legal “human” rights for great apes, arguing that since there is no such thing as a soul, there is no moral difference between apes and humans.

  23. 29

    Libertarian spews:

    Does anyone know why the rest of Canada keeps Quebec as part of the nation? I heard recently that Quebec wants to be designated a “nation within a nation.” Why don’t they just work up the guts and vote themselves out of Canada? Or maybe the rest of Canada should just throw Quebec out of the country? Why do we need all this drama to the North? I’m not even Canadian, and I’m sick and tired of hearing about it.

    Quebec, pee or get off the pot: make a decision and stick with it! Either leve or stay, but stop pissing and moaning about it!

  24. 30

    YOS LIB BRO spews:

    Why don’t they just work up the guts and vote themselves out of Canada?


  25. 31

    headless lucy spews:

    re 25: Selective breeding? Is that what they were doing at Auscwitz. I thought it was mass murder.

    The Nazis also served lunch and I’m in favor of lunch. Does that mean that I’m in favor of eugenics and genocide. The eugenics movement and the “one drop” rule are American ideas.

  26. 32

    headless lucy spews:

    Bowling for Nazi Eugenics in Ballard. Take the whole family! Don’t mind them nozzles in the ceiling.

  27. 34

    Libertarian spews:

    –Yos Lib Bro

    That’s my point: they keep pissing and moaning about it and won’t accept that THEY are the ones who chose NOT TO LEAVE Canada. Now they want to be “a nation within a nation.” Sounds like having your cake and eating it, too!

    If they can’t secede from Canada with a provincial vote to leave the country, then they should shut up and be Canandian. If that means English is the language of the country, tough. Get over it.

  28. 35

    SeeIToldYouSo! spews:

    headless lucy says:

    re 25: This guy needs to get his head straightened out by talking to Rev. Ted Haggard.

    11/25/2006 at 11:51 am

    “This guy” is one of yours: An anti-religion extremist … sounds an awful lot like the asses here.

  29. 36

    headless lucy spews:

    That’s the point, dumbass. If I find one crooked Republican congressman, does that mean they’re all crooked?

    Sorry. Bad example!

  30. 39

    headless lucy spews:

    Wait. If I find one repressed gay, anti-gay Republican minister….

    Sorry, another bad example.

  31. 41

    John Barelli spews:

    Libertarian said:

    That’s my point: they keep pissing and moaning about it and won’t accept that THEY are the ones who chose NOT TO LEAVE Canada. Now they want to be “a nation within a nation.” Sounds like having your cake and eating it, too!

    If they can’t secede from Canada with a provincial vote to leave the country, then they should shut up and be Canandian. If that means English is the language of the country, tough. Get over it.

    Oh, come on now, Libertarian. It’s freezing cold through large chunks of the year up there, and so dull that curling is a popular sport.

    Would you have them give up one of Canada’s most amusing pastimes?

    Look, the rest of Canada gets to piss and moan about Quebec’s special status and the fact that they have to print Mexican restaurant menus in French, even in places where more people speak Mandarin than speak French.

    Quebec gets to piss and moan about how the rest of Canada is picking on them by not outlawing the use of English, and gets to dream about being a real country while getting the benefit of relatively stable and honest government.

    A few fringe people get to make silly speeches about the “natural sovereignty” of Quebec, while not actually doing anything. The rest of us get to watch and be amused.

    Sounds like perfectly harmless fun to me.

  32. 42

    skagit spews:

    Bowling alleys have to provide more than family recreation in this fast-paced techno age . . . so they’re becoming classy pick-up sites for kids and adults alike. Why not? Those that get on board and set the stage for sex will make it. Those that don’t, won’t.

    Sounds good to me.

  33. 43

    Don Joe spews:


    “I need some more quotes for the collection.”

    This from the guy who thinks that torque had nothing to do with the crane accident. I’d place a bet that those bolts were bent, but, then, MtWR don’t pay up on his gambling debts, so there’s really no point.

  34. 44



    I hardly think making oversight and inspection of cranes in service regulatory is a feel good approach.

    You’re right; the article is poorly written…but that’s the writer fault. The writer, Robert Jamieson, obviously was trying the local news tried-and-true method of quoting someone with very little logical connection to a story so as to give it then magical, personable feeling.

    And it’s probably the writer’s fault (or simply a typo) with the million ft-lbs of force statement. Ft-lbs is a unit of work/energy (sometimes associated with torque values). A bus probably takes more than a million ft-lbs of work to bring to a stop in a collision.

  35. 45



    Bolts typically fail in shear, that is a shearing force causes the bolts to fracture or bend/deflect to initiate structural failure.

    Torque is a twisting force and probably isn’t the best way to describe this failure (if in this situation, it turns out to be a typical bolt failure).

  36. 46

    Don Joe spews:


    Except that you don’t get shear force simply from wind blowing on the tower. The tipping force of the wind blowing on the tower itself would only exert a longitudinal force on the bolts.

    The torque comes from the wind blowing against the cross-member, which would tend to twist the tower. In fact, the twisting was likely to have oscillated, thereby amplifying the effect. That’s where you get the shear force on the bolts.

    Why this wouldn’t be obvious to a person who claims to be a licensed engineer is a mystery to me. That the person claiming to be a licensed engineer is lying up a storm would be the most plausible explanation for this oversight.

  37. 47



    Actually I was wrong to state bolts usually fail in shear. They fail often by fatigue and corrosion as well. As to the frequencies of failures in structural steel application of each, I have no idea.

    Wild speculation: it’s possible that the bolts became somewhat corroded (from the rainy weather) in combination with the cylical loading from counteracting wind loads caused the bolts fail due to fatigue and material deteriotation.

  38. 53

    David Wright spews:

    Yes, “it’s capitalism” that, when no one wants what you’re selling, you go out of business. (Unless, of course, you are a public school).

    Of course, it’s also capitalism that Chuck E. Cheese’s can get a liquor license and strippers, if they want to adapt their business model.

    And of course, it’s not so much capitalism that certain special people are allowed to run casinos and others aren’t.

    What, Goldy, were you trying to convince us that a ban on non-tribal casinos is some laisez-faire capitalist policy?! Or that allowing anyone to open a casino would be some sort of corporate welfare for bowling-alley operators!?

  39. 54

    skagit spews:

    Well, I guess some of us think that after committing genocide to a population that preceded us in this country, we might give them a chance to succeed at something without demanding that they parrot those who inflicted the genocide and whose culture and values may be different.

    That’s capitalism. And BTW, Chuck E. Cheese could not just change their business model and get strippers and a liquor license. There are regulations for those items as well.

  40. 55

    headless lucy spews:

    re 53: If the business were a slaughterhouse would you get it? You may well say: “What does a slaughterhouse have to do with gambling?” To which I would reply: “Exactly, my dear, Watson!!! But let us be on our way now…. The game is afoot!!!!”

  41. 56

    David Wright spews:

    Skagit @ 54:

    You are welcome to belive that oppressed racial minorities deserve monopoly rights to certain businesses as a form of compensation. (By the way, do you suggest that blacks get drug-dealing or prostitution?) While I do not share that belief, it is certainly an internally consistent position.

    If we adopt your position, and instead of capitalism, establish a sort of central-planning that decides which business is going to be allowed to sell what on the basis who has the better sob-story, then you can’t complain that those who tell you their own sob-stories aren’t being sufficiently capitalist. It is you who have established the non-capitalist principal that it is the better sob-story, not the better-run business, that will win; the competitors are just playing the game you wanted them to play.

    To summarize: It’s not inconsistent to want a non-capitalist system that favors tribes. It is insonsistent to then criticize non-tribal interests that try to play your non-capitalist game as “non-capitalist.”

  42. 57

    David Wright spews:

    Headless @ 55:

    On the contrary! If some slaughterhouse wants to try to turn a profit by adding a casino gambling wing, it’s not up to the state to tell them not to. While I think they would fail, maybe combining gambling and cow-killing would turn out to be the next “in” thing for the twenty-somethings, allowing them to have a good time and all of us to get cheaper beef. Only the market can tell!

  43. 58

    skagit spews:

    Genocide is not a sob story. You are welcome to any rationalization you wish for giving the rights of casinos to a nation . . . I prefer to think of it as the nation choosing to legitimately offer gambling while another nation prefers not to. We’ve had laws against gambling for decades . . . the only reason for reconsidering now is the profit motive. An absolutely legitimate motive. But, one that does not override the values motive also determined by a community.

    I know I use the word “nation” somewhat incorrectly. But, Indians have a lot more sovereignty based on treaties – broken though they may have been.

    African Americans are not comparable to American Indians. Do I think African Americans deserve special consideration for many decades of servitude, lack of access to education, and destruction of family and culture? You bet I do. I guess it is that ol’ liberal streak in me . . . you know, the fairness thing.

    How would I make it up to African Americans? They would have access to the best schools . . . they would all have access tuition free to colleges . . . and they would have a helping hand wherever needed. Only then could we even begin to repair the cultural damage done to that population of people.

  44. 59

    skagit spews:

    Oh, David Wright at 57: whoppin’ good ol’ capitalists idea! Let’s put those old cows and pigs and whatever on some good ol’ steroids and mind-altering drugs and watch them fight, make love, whatever animals do when they’re out of their minds. We could make a show of it . . . or let’s open-up the show and give people a chance to watch their favorite animal being slaughtered. We could gamble on just which old steer would last the longest.

    Now that’s capitalism at it best! Let the market decide! Can’t wait to get started!

  45. 61

    YOS LIB BRO spews:


    First, like Ingsoc, conservatism has a hierarchical structure. Like Orwell’s “Inner Party,” those at the top of the movement have almost perfect freedom to decide what opinions count as official conservatism. The Iraq War furnishes a telling example. In the run-up to the invasion, leading conservatives announced that conservatism now meant spreading global democratic revolution. This forthright radicalism—this embrace of the sanative powers of violence—became quickly accepted as the ineluctable meaning of conservatism in foreign policy. Those who dissented risked ostracism and harsh rebuke. Had conservative leaders instead argued that global democratic revolution would not cure our woes but increase them, the rest of the movement would have accepted this position no less quickly. Millions of conservative epigones believe nothing less than what the movement’s established organs tell them to believe. Rarely does a man recognize, like Winston Smith, his own ideology as such.



  46. 62

    MTR spews:

    I see none of you (wisely) chose to weigh in on Jamison’s “foot pounds of force” statement. Doesn’t matter; at least he’s “diverse”.

    I suppose that also means that all of you are as fucking stoopid as he is about fizziks.

    Thought so…

  47. 64

    YOS LIB BRO spews:


    Millions of conservative epigones believe nothing less than what the movement’s established organs tell them to believe.

  48. 65

    My Left Foot spews:


    Just continue spewing Mark. The only person you are impressing is yourself…unless you count how impressed the rest of us are with your obvious lack of intelligence, compassion and understanding.

    I was wondering though, just how many hours on AOL has your mom authorized for you with the parental controls?

  49. 67

    MTR spews:

    Hey Rabbit – You fancy yourself an engineer as evidenced by your “capacitator” post and your hilarious post about moment and torque.

    So tell us… what is wrong with Bruthah Jamison’s statement “foot pounds of force.”?


  50. 68

    MTR spews:


    The “hurricane season” is over. Despite Algore’s prediction of a series of terrible catastrophes, there were ummm…. zero major hurricanes to hit Murka this year.

    Is this an “inconvenient truth”?

  51. 70

    skagit spews:

    Sure, give him credit for fixing global warming. That’ll go down along with his fine legacy for being a wartime president . . . and it certainly fits in with the kind of realpolitik in which you guys engage.

  52. 71


    #67 MTR

    Again, dumbass your hard-on for the typo (foot pounds of force) has been addressed. Get over yourself. There are bad facts, mistakes, and typos in news articles all the time. Even if I didn’t understand why it was mistake, a simple google search would’ve explained it.

    Oh, you’re a racist prick. Go fuck yourself.

  53. 72

    K spews:

    @ 71

    racist prick is just one description of MTR. Also include misogynistic asshole, arrogant fool and bet welsher.

  54. 73

    My Left Foot spews:

    What MTR is doing is very simple. He is baiting. He has no issue, no substance and no knowledge, so he resorts to baiting. He studied under Professa JCH

  55. 74

    Micheal Richards-Liberal Comedian spews:

    K says:

    @ 71

    racist prick is just one description of MTR. Also include misogynistic asshole, arrogant fool and bet welsher.

    11/25/2006 at 8:55 pm

    You got that right K. Have you heard my latest Schtick?

  56. 75

    My Left Foot spews:

    What MTR is doing is very simple. He is baiting. He has no issue, no substance and no knowledge, so he resorts to baiting. He studied under Professa JCH. These guys don’t have enough intellect between them to match wits with a 9 year-old in a game of Candyland.

    At least JCH had the good sense to fade away after the beat down on November 7.

  57. 76

    DNC- spews:

    ***** Talking points memos******

    Please refrain form talking about Global warming until the summer comes. Remember the temperature has to be above 85 degrees in the Seattle area before we can spew… I mean mention global warming.

  58. 79

    headless lucy spews:

    re 61; I read the article. Very interesting. You’re talking about people (conservatives) who refer to Muslims as “ragheads” and then savagely and hypocritically jump on M. Richards for a few impetuous comments. Conservatives are mad beasts that must be contained — by force — if necessary. “…they hope in vain who expect conservatives to take responsibility for the actual consequences of their actions.”

  59. 80

    headless lucy spews:

    “… conservatism is entertaining. Understanding the world, though rewarding, provides nothing like the pleasures of a “Two Minute Hate,” a focused, ritualized denunciation of enemies. To induce its own Two Minute Hates, conservatism, like Ingsoc in 1984, manufactures bogeymen such as “judicial activists,” “so-called realists,” or “moral relativists” that become symbolic representations of detested outsiders. Meanwhile, like the Inner Party in 1984, conservative leaders tolerate the more vulgar, angry purveyors of ideology—think talk-show hosts or authors of bestselling political books. The most vicious attacks, meanwhile, are reserved for turncoats, like Goldstein in 1984. (Of course, as many paleoconservatives could attest, the hatred is usually mutual.) Rooting for conservative ideology is as engrossing to its partisans as rooting for the local football team is to its fans.”

  60. 81

    headless lucy spews:

    “Understanding the world, though rewarding, provides nothing like the pleasures of a “Two Minute Hate,”

  61. 82

    headless lucy spews:

    “I hate Republicans and everything they stand for.” Howard Dean

    “Who’s cryin’ now?” (post 11-7-06) headless lucy

  62. 83

    headless lucy spews:

    “Rooting for conservative ideology is as engrossing to its partisans as rooting for the local football team is to its fans.”

  63. 84

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    23 John Barelli says: … it would give MTR someplace he would feel comfortable, if they ever toss him out of “Rick’s”… 11/25/2006 at 10:13 am

    Redneck was tossed out of Rick’s years ago. They don’t let women-haters in there.

  64. 85

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    25 Let’s not forget that Ted Bundy was a Republican. Bundy arrogated to himself a “right” to use other human beings for his selfish gratification, and then dispose of them. Of course, that kind of thinking comes naturally to a Republican.

  65. 86

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    36 headless lucy says: If I find one crooked Republican congressman, does that mean they’re all crooked? 11/25/2006 at 12:33 pm

    No. One Republican congressman being crooked did not cause the rest to be crooked. The other Republican congressmen are crooked independently.

  66. 87

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    41 … Sounds like perfectly harmless fun to me. … 11/25/2006 at 12:39 pm

    Precisely; and identical to wingnuts pissing and moaning about “seceding” from King County or Washington State, and forming their own “Cedar County” or “Cascade State” (or whatever the hell they call it).

    It’ll never happen because they don’t want to give up their road and school subsidies from Seattle taxpayers, but they have fun talking about it.

  67. 88

    Yer Killin Me spews:

    Nope, sorry, wrong Roger. When Republicans are crooked, they are crooked in unison. They take orders for their crookedness from the top. When Democrats are crooked, they’re crooked independently, since there is no coordinating body telling them that crookedness is OK.

    Oh, and like you, I like our crooks better than their crooks. Ours cost the taxpayer less, for one thing.

  68. 89

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    53 David Wright says: Yes, “it’s capitalism” that, when no one wants what you’re selling, you go out of business. (Unless, of course, you are a public school). — 11/25/2006 at 3:48 pm

    This is one of the stupidest comments in this thread. (Mr. Wright also is responsible for the other stupidest comment on this blog, which I’ll get to soon.)

    Plenty of people want public schools. That’s why supermajorities of voters approve levies to help pay for them.

  69. 90

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    53 David Wright says: And of course, it’s not so much capitalism that certain special people are allowed to run casinos and others aren’t. — 11/25/2006 at 3:48 pm

    You don’t know a fucking thing about Native Americans, tribes, or Indian law. Here’s a primer:

    1. Native Americans do not have special privileges, they have rights and concessions granted to them by Congress in exchange for the land they gave up to settlers.

    2. Contrary to the ignorant beliefs of many uninformed denizens of the dominant culture, most of the land cessions made to settlers by tribes were obtained by negotiation, not conquest.

    3. Tribal hunting and fishing rights, water rights, and the like are property rights, not “privileges,” negotiated in exchange for land.

    4. All Native American rights and concessions granted by Congress and/or codified in federal law belong to tribes, not individual Native Americans.

    5. If you don’t want to hold up your end of the bargain, then give my Native American friends their land back, and get the fuck off their land!

    Any questions?

  70. 91

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    53 (continued)

    So why is a laissez-faire free-market wingnut bitching about tribes establishing a laissez-faire free-market economy for themselves?

    Wingnuts bitch about taxes. So the Indians sell tax-free cigarets. Then the wingnuts bitch about the Indians not paying taxes.

    Wingnuts bitch about government regulation. So the Indians set up enterprises on their reservations beyond the jurisdiction of state and local regulation. Then the wingnuts bitch about the Indians’ unregulated enterprises.

    Wingnuts bitch about welfare. So the Indians set up casino businesses, make shitloads of money off gullible white people who piss away their money in the casinos, and get off welfare. Then the wingnuts bitch about the Indians running casinos.

    Go figure! You just can’t make wingnuts happy. That’s because they’re unhappy people. If it’s so bad they can’t be happy about anything, then they ought to put themselves out of their misery.

  71. 92

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    56 Once again Wright’s ignorance shines. No one has a monopoly on casinos! The state could authorize a casino on every street corner if it wanted to. In fact, that precise question was on the ballot recently in the form of an initiative that was overwhelmingly rejected by voters.

    The reason tribes can operate casinos and non-tribal businesses can’t is because:

    a) Tribes, tribal lands, and tribal activities are under federal jurisdiction;

    b) Non-tribal lands and activities are under state jurisdiction (except for certain federal lands such as military reservations);

    c) The federal government has authorized tribal casinos, whereas state government has not authorized casinos;

    d) The state can’t tell the federal government what to do, and the federal government chooses not to tell the state government what to do.

    It all boils down to federal vs. state jurisdiction.

  72. 93

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    57 David Wright says: If some slaughterhouse wants to try to turn a profit by adding a casino gambling wing, it’s not up to the state to tell them not to. — 11/25/2006 at 4:49 pm

    Like hell it isn’t! The state has the power to regulate gambling, whether you like it or not. The fact you don’t like the state’s regulatory powers doesn’t change the existence of said powers.

    Tell you what, if you really believe what you say, then why don’t you set up a slaughterhouse with a casino wing and give government lawyers like me an opportunity to throw your ass in jail! Go ahead, do it — I DARE YOU!!! I’m gonna enjoy this …

  73. 94

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    60 Don Joe says: David Wright, I think you need to go back and read Goldy’s previous post. 11/25/2006 at 6:03 pm

    What makes you think that fuck can read?

  74. 95

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    67 MTR says: Hey Rabbit – You fancy yourself an engineer as evidenced by your “capacitator” post and your hilarious post about moment and torque. Dumfuckingass… 11/25/2006 at 7:20 pm

    How’s that again? I never said I was an engineer. In fact, I specifically pointed out that I’m NOT an engineer! Indeed, I went even further and described myself as a guvmint hack lawyer and partisan hack. Got that? I’m a hack lawyer, political flunky, and partisan propagandist — NOT an engineer! Any questions about that?

    And I never said a fucking thing about “moment” and “torque”! Somebody else did. If you read the fucking screen name on that post you would see that it does NOT say “Roger Rabbit.” Know what? You’re not an engineer either. You’re a lot of things, including liar and bet welsher, but engineer is not one of them. How stupid does someone have to be, to think someone else’s post is a Roger Rabbit post? Too stupid to be an engineer.

  75. 96

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It ought to be obvious that a rabbit who says he is not an engineer and spells capacitor as “capacitator” is NOT an engineer! Only Redneck is too stupid to figure out that Roger Rabbit is not an engineer, doesn’t know anything about moment and torque, and didn’t post that comment about moment and torque. Redneck is a stupid shit.

  76. 97

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    80 You forgot to mention that conservatives hate themselves. Self-loathing is their primal driving force.

  77. 98

    RightEqualsStupid spews:

    Has anyone paid attention to the latest neocon bullshit spin? Now they say we need a strongman to run Iraq. Someone who can keep the rival factions in check and avoid all-out civil war.


  78. 99

    kurtyboy spews:

    Adding to Roger Rabbit’s comments at 90 & 92.

    The Tribes were NOT granted rights under treaties with the United States, The opposite is true:

    The United States government was granted rights by the tribes.

    It was, as the irritable, furry little curmudgeon says, a property agreement, admittedly signed under duress by the tribes (paraphrasing Pulp Fiction–“Sign the treaty granting us land use or we’ll kill every last one of you motherfuckers…”)

    To summarize, the US and its citizens are here by virtue of a very shaky land deal. Get over it, and quit whining about “special rights”.

  79. 100

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    99 A cherished sentiment among my N.A. friends, but the fact is, the federal government is the ultimate sovereignty within the borders of the U.S., and could (if it chose) abrogate lesser sovereignties. From a pragmatic point of view, the treaties and all legal statuses and rights derived therefrom are equivalent to federal statutes that Congress could unilaterally modify or eliminate at any time. Of course, there would be consequences if they did so; federal efforts to impose “termination” and “assimilation” policies on tribes and individual Native Americans were uniformly disastrous.

  80. 101

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    88 I didn’t say that all Republicans aren’t crooked. Nor did I say that Republicans aren’t crooked from the top. What I said is that each Republican crook is an independently occurring phenomenon. There is no cause-and-effect relationship between Republican A being a crook, and Republican B being a crook. It’s in their genes. Every Republican is born a crook, just like gays are born gay. This means every Republican would be a crook regardless of whether every other Republican was a crook, although that happens to be the case.

  81. 102

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    If I may change the subject for a moment, an article in the fish wrapper underlines the depth of the electoral disaster that befell the corrupt and incompetent GOP earlier this month:

    In New Hampsire, Democrats control the governorship, both houses of the legislature, and the executive council (which confirms appointees and approves state contracts) for the first time since 1874.

    New Hampshire’s Democratic governor was re-elected with 74 percent of the votes.

    The executive council went from 4 Republicans and 1 Democrat to 3 Democrats and 2 Republicans.

    The state senate went from 16 Republicans and 8 Democrats to 14 Democrats and 10 Republicans.

    The state house went from 242 Republicans and 150 Democrats (with 8 vacancies) to 239 Democrats and 161 Republicans.

    Democrats defeated both of the state’s incumbent Republican congressmen.

    In Iowa, the only state whose presidential nominating process occurs before New Hampshire’s, the governorship and both legislative houses flipped from Republican to Democratic.

    Welcome to Hell, wingfucks … want to keep pretending this was an “average” mid-term election?

    P.S. — and let’s not forget that, as I’ve pointed out before, the GOP went into this election with a 4.5 million vote advantage from voter challenge and vote suppression tactics, rigged voting machines, and outright cheating and stealing. It seems they misunderestimated the number of votes they would have to steal and/or suppress to stay in power by, oh, let’s say around 5 million. That means they took a 10-million-vote ass kicking. Any questions, wingfucks? This is what REPUDIATION looks like. Like I said, welcome to HELL, wingfucks.

  82. 104

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    That crunching noise you hear is Republican office holders being recycled in the trash compacter.

  83. 105

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    I’ve probably got lots of torque in my powerful hind legs, but I’m not an engineer and don’t know about such things.

  84. 107

    whl spews:

    In reference to Comment #10.

    Yes. Much “more than a million foot-pounds of force” by factors of 10s & 100s.

    Foot-pound-force is a unit of work or energy. A common usage is horsepower = 33,000 foot-pounds-force minute which is 550 fpf second. The last time I drove a large commercial vehicle in WA, it produced 600 horsepower. For non-engineers that is 19.8 million foot-pounds-force per minute (330,000 fpf second).

    Additonally, the loaded truck weighed about 105,000 pounds as a daily average–the empty weight was about 42,500 pounds. At 60 mph, the heavy was moving 88 feet per second, thus 92,400,000 foot-pounds-force.

    A commercial passenger bus is lighter than that truck. The bus driver’s unit probably weighs about 45,000 pounds, possibly 50,000 with passengers & baggage. His engine(s) develop at least 400 horsepower which equals about 13.2 million foot-pounds-force per minute (220,000 fpfs), although many buses have 600 or more engine horsepower. And his forward movement would be about 4.4 million foot-pounds-force at 60 mph on the highway.

    Now if some alleged tech-savvy person cannot comprehend the millions of foot-pounds-force controlled by commercial drivers at all times, then that person’s comments about safety procedures for heavy equipment are silly.

    The point of Jamieson’s comments is that if commercial drivers are required to be trained, examined, licensed, re-examined & randomly monitored, then so, too, crane operators should be subject to some similar regulation.

    I don’t have an opinion on construction site crane operators, but for some jackass to belittle the reference to millions of pounds of force being applied in commercial vehicle operations indicates total buffoonery.

  85. 108

    fredsmith spews:

    Roger Rabbit only one question. Are you saying that the only people that should have gambling is the Tribes?

  86. 109

    fredsmith spews:

    For a guy who seems to be pretty anti gambling, what’s with the casino advertising that is being done on your site. By the way that’s now illegal in this state, beacause we don’t seem to be able to be responsible and take care of ourselves.