BIAW: batshit crazy

Really. These guys are nuts. Totally fucking nuts. And any politician who curries their favor or seeks their endorsement should be asked to condemn them and return their dirty money.

Last month BIAW Stormwater Field Representative Mark Musser had the poor judgment to compare the state Department of Ecology to Nazi Germany, but if you thought he might follow up with an apology, think again, for in the latest issue of the BIAW’s newsletter Building Insight, Musser actually defends his comparison by offering readers a little history lesson: “Hitler’s Nazi party: They were eco extremists.” I kid you not.

Knowing my parallel would illicit screams of protest—how politically incorrect of me to mention Hitler and Nazis in the same breath as DOE or the environmental lobby—I explored the actual connection between environmental extremism and Hitler’s Nazi party.

You mean the modern environmental movement has its roots in Nazism? You know, the way the modern Northwest militia and Christian identity movements have their roots in the BIAW? Fill us in on the details, Mark.

The German Nazi party expressed many of the ecological refrains we hear today. Nazis were the vanguard of conservationism—they sought to remedy the increasing alienation of people from the natural world, deforestation, urban sprawl, the destruction of ecosystem balance, the extinction of species and the indiscriminate slaughter of animals.Hitler himself was a sometime vegetarian and an animal lover, and the Nazi government implemented some of the first laws protecting animal rights.

Hence, all vegetarians and animal lovers must be Nazis! (Well, maybe the folks at the Sierra Club.) Mark’s a logical guy.

The Nazis also blamed capitalism for destroying the European continent and believed environmental holism was the solution. They investigated sustainable forestry and institutionalized organic farming to advance experimental homeopathic cures and medicines.

I’m not sure if that stuff about sustainable forestry is true, or what the alleged connection is between organic farming and homeopathy, but I’m confused… is Musser trying to slander environmentalists or rehabilitate Hitler? (And, oh, by the way Mark, when he wasn’t weaving hemp or raising free-range chickens, I think Hitler also started a world war, firebombed London and exterminated six million Jews. I’m sure there’s a footnote in your history book about that stuff somewhere. Look it up.)

Nazi bioengineers were also very concerned about construction maintaining harmony with the natural landscape—the autobahn freeway in Germany was designed by Nazis with the utmost ecological care in mind and presented as a way to bring Germans closer to nature.

I hadn’t realized the autobahn was “bioengineered,” or that environmentalists were so into building freeways. Huh. I guess you learn something every day.

The Nazis also came up with far reaching land use restrictions and centralized environmental planning for the same purposes, and were very zealous about protecting wetlands and other ecological sensitive areas.

You know, just like Ron Sims. Ergo, Ron Sims must be a Nazi.

Thus green building and smart growth ideas are not something new.

Again, I’m not conceding anything to Musser on the facts, but is he implying that “smart” growth ideas are a bad thing?

Another familiar refrain—the Nazis complained the degradation of German soil was due to the landless, capitalistic, greedy Jews who pillaged and raped the European landscape for money and power. Today’s environmentalists still blame capitalism for the destruction of the natural world—greedy builders are routinely accused of pillaging and raping the landscape for money.

So, um, what you’re saying Mark, is that BIAW members today, under the regulatory regime of the Democrats in Olympia, have it as bad as my grandparents’ extended family did under the Nazi occupation in Poland and the Ukraine? Really? See, last time I checked, nobody was rounding up contractors into camps, starving them, gassing them, and shoving their bodies into ovens. But then, Europe’s Jewry didn’t have to contend with DOE’s stormwater regulations, so I guess they had it easy.

Of course, this Nazi environmental zealotry was insanely tied to German nationalism (racism), which relied heavily on the ideals of social Darwinism, a doctrine which some environmentalists have kept alive in spite of its evil reputation. When radical environmentalists oppose famine relief, medical aid and sanctuary for refugees because of overpopulation concerns, the whiff of Nazism is unmistakable.

Mark, are you sure you’re not getting environmentalists confused with your friends in the militia movement, you know, like all this local Minutemen with long ties to the BIAW?

Less vocally strident enviros are not quite sure what to do about overpopulation, aside from an insane obsession with anti-development, urban sprawl land use restrictions. Hitler, of course, had his own solution—wipe out the Slavs so the Germans could enjoy greater ecological health. Himmler had all kinds of grandiose ecological plans in mind for a depopulated Poland, Ukraine, and Belarus.

Again, no mention of Hitler wiping out six million Jews. Must not be in Musser’s history book.

What environmentalists offer today, instead of the racist German National Socialism that defined the Nazi party, is an international environmental socialism, an amalgam of Nazism and communism—an international environmental socialism with a centralized planning scheme. But this amalgam is increasingly at odds with itself, causing a rift within the environmental lobby, with builders caught in the middle.

I was at a Washington Conservation Voters workshop this summer at Islandwood, and the tension between the neo-Nazi wing of the movement and the neo-Stalinists was palpable.

Case in point: Builders in Washington State are being squeezed by an environmental movement which extols ecofascism on the one hand (where the most important thing on the construction jobsite is not a house but “Earth First”), while on the other hand they are micromanaged to death by an ecological bureaucracy that would make any Soviet commissar green with envy. This communistic ecological micromanagement is perfectly exemplified in DOE’s breathtakingly detailed, 976-page stormwater manual and BMPs.

It’s not so much a stormwater “manual” as it is a manifesto.

So, much like Stalin and Hitler were divided on how to best go about their socialistic schemes, environmentalists are also divided over how to best go about their socialistic scheme of controlling human development—either by burning houses down with Molotov cocktails, or slowly squeezing the life out of it through extensive, Sovietesque micromanagement. Homebuilders are thus caught between militant ecofascism (radical environmentalists like ELF) and communistic bureaucracy (DOE).

Yup, that pretty much sums up the entire environmental movement: we’re all either ecofascist terrorists, or Stalinist butchers. Some of us are even both.

For the time being, it is the suffocating Soviet version which is winning this war, but the recent arsons claimed by ELF, and the mainstream environmentalists’ refusal to denounce them, demonstrate the other side’s “ecological blitzkrieg” approach could be gaining traction.

I checked; it’s the March issue of Building Insight, not an April Fool’s edition. But either way, over-the-top, fantastical hatemongering like this, coming from one of the most powerful political organizations in the state, is no laughing matter. Musser’s BIAW sanctioned paranoid rants are not only batshit crazy, they are downright offensive.

As a Jew whose entire extended family in Eastern Europe was exterminated by the Nazis, along with most of the rest of European Jewry, I take personal offense at efforts to diminish Hitler’s historically unparalleled war crimes in the service of rank political partisanship. How dare the BIAW trivialize the deaths of tens of millions by comparing the DOE to a psychotic war machine that tossed babies into mass graves in the name of racial purity and lebensraum?

And how dare our elected officials — in both parties — grant credibility to the insane, hateful and extremist rhetoric of the lunatic fringe at the BIAW by appearing at their functions and pocketing their money.

If our political and media establishment continue to ignore the BIAW’s violent rhetoric, then eventually it will be deemed an acceptable part of our political discourse. And eventually, some crazed nutcase will act on it.

Comments

  1. 2

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    You mean the modern environmental movement has its roots in Nazism?

    Yes. If Hitler was alive today he would most likely be a far left environmentalist. Hitler is in every way more like a far left liberal than any far righty.

  2. 3

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Yup, that pretty much sums up the entire environmental movement: we’re all either ecofascist terrorists, or Stalinist butchers.

    Well what else is there??? The environmentalists certainly are not reasonable.

  3. 4

    Two Dogs spews:

    @2 Your hypothetical about Hitler makes no sense. I could assert the opposite, i.e. that he would be a noecon warmonger. BFD, we can’t test either one.

    However, the fact that the BIAW is out of control is clear to anyone from this newsletter. They are the thugs who unfortunately influence too much of our state government these days. I appreciate Goldy’s bringing their attitude to the attention of those of us who don’t regularly receive their propaganda. My next step is to query some builder I know to see if any of them belong to this organization.

  4. 5

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Speaking of environmentalists I wonder what their explaination is for all the global warming today in Seattle…. Dumbasses. hehehehe

  5. 6

    michael spews:

    That is completely insane. I’d pick it apart, but there’s no there, there.

    Btw, in Pre-WWII days, pretty much, all farming was organic.

    We really need to get this in wide circulation.

  6. 7

    michael spews:

    JBD,

    Many of the founders of modern environmentalism were Republicans, Teddy Roosevelt and Gifford Pinchot come to mind.

    Dave Foreman, one of the founding members of Earth First! was a Republican. I think a few of the other founders were Republicans as well.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Foreman

  7. 8

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    4

    Lets go down the list

    Hitler and the far left are similar in that they are:

    Against guns
    Against Freedom of Speech (Fairness doctrine, political correctness)
    Against the Jews
    Hold extreme environmental views
    Pro socialism
    Against religion (especially Jewish and Christianity)
    Indoctrinating school children
    ect

    The fact that you can’t make sense of this makes sense. Nazis usually don’t know they are Nazis. roof roof

  8. 9

    Politically Incorrect spews:

    Look, government people can just behave like arrogant dicks sometimes. I guess it just goes with the job title for some little fuck who can’t get a job anywhere else: they like the feeling of power and love to fuck with the average working stiff. That’s just the way it goes. I’m sure that some of these clerks in government are actually nice folks: it’s the dickheads that we remember when dealing with government bureaucrats, not the nice people.

  9. 10

    K spews:

    The DOE is implementing regulations (WAC) based on laws (RCW) adopted by the legislature. There is a public process, where comments are taken. They do not invent the regulations.

  10. 11

    zip spews:

    The Musser article was too far over the top to retain credibility.

    However, I believe BIAW is entirely correct to criticize Ecology’s overzealous regulation of stormwater drainage. The “broad brush” approach taken to stormwater ostensibly to “save the salmon” is way more than required for environmental protection on many sites.

  11. 12

    Two Dogs spews:

    9 Go fuck yourself. I’ll switch my government job with your private sector job/business for one year and we’ll see who does better. Private sector folks know they’ve sold out and they can’t deal with the guilt. That must be the cause of the pathology that’s evident in the BIAW newsletter. But whatever the cause, the BIAW is out of control and must be dealt with.

  12. 13

    K spews:

    BTW- my personal belief is that no one should spend their entire proessional life as a regulator. All should have some experience building or operating something.

  13. 14

    michael spews:

    @11

    See #10

    DOE implements the laws, it doesn’t make them. Don’t like the law then work to change it.

  14. 15

    Two Dogs spews:

    11 “Too far over the top to retain credibility”, huh? This is the work of thugs who want no controls on their ape of the land. There is no reason not to call it what it is.

  15. 16

    Two Dogs spews:

    13 I have plenty of experience working construction, I built one of my houses myself, and I have worked in many other fields, driven a taxi, etc. You know nothing about the experience of any real government worker. You are just repeating propaganda to sound wise. The fact is that we have a serious environmental problem that needs to be addressed. people at DOE DFW, etc., take constant abuse as they try to implement the few environmental regulations they are allowed to. meanwhile BIAW and similar thugs get away with ruining what little is left of the natural ecosystem. Let’s at least tell it like it is, ok?

  16. 17

    spews:

    @8
    To whoever was in the thread earlier today on the 22-year-old defense contractor, I officially retract my statement that Delbert’s comment was the stupidest comment left on this site all week. It has been surpassed by this one by more than a mile.

    Holy. Motherfucking. Crap. Does one have to take classes to become this stupid?

  17. 18

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    It’s common knowledge that Hitler loved dogs. He didn’t have much use for humanity, though.

  18. 19

    spews:

    @8
    Wow, I have to do this line-by-line, this is such a spectacular achievement in retardation:

    Against guns

    Um, he built up the German army in an attempt to take over the world. Hitler was most certainly not against guns (he was against his enemies being armed of course – then again, so is the Bush Administration)

    Against Freedom of Speech (Fairness doctrine, political correctness)

    Awesome. And I’m sure the Texas prosecutor who said that people can go to jail for promoting the idea of jury nullification is a Democrat.

    Against the Jews

    Most Jews in this country are on the left.

    Hold extreme environmental views

    Hitler did not. Not even mentioned in Mein Kampf. Not once.

    Pro socialism

    The first people he sent to concentration camps were Socialists.

    Against religion (especially Jewish and Christianity)

    Hahaha. Wow, you must believe in the tooth fairy too.

    Indoctrinating school children

    And the left believes in this more than the right does? Are you serious?

    Wow, JBD, just wow. That was a tour de force of stupid. Well done!

  19. 20

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    The LEFTIST PINHEADED KLOWNS on HA secretly applaud the efforts of ELF in burning down those big homes, huh?!
    In radical environmentalism, the end justifies any means.
    Kind of like Nazism.

  20. 21

    michael spews:

    @17, 19

    Yep, I do believe JBD grabbed the brass ring on this one. Any idea who JBD is?

  21. 22

    michael spews:

    @20

    While a sign claiming the ELF was responsible for the crime was found, the crime is still unsolved.

    For all we know, it could have been the developer who set the fires to cash in on insurance money.

  22. 25

    The Ump spews:

    Wow. Crazy is as crazy does.

    Let’s see . . . Hitler peed when his bladder was full. So did Mother Teresa and Jesus himself. And so does Mark Musser of BIAW. There’s no way to escape the conclusion that Mark Musser, Mother Teresa, and Jesus engaged in 3-way WW sex.

    Shocking. Who’d’ve thunk it?

  23. 26

    K spews:

    Easy there, dogs @ 16, I am a long time government worker, with private sector development experience. I also know some regulators who have only done that, and who do not understand complexities of “real life”. And I agree that most are hard working, well intentioned.

  24. 27

    K spews:

    And dogs, I have considerable experience standing in front of public meetings parrying questions from sometimes abusive citizens.

  25. 28

    Colonel Scanlon 'Poof' Machinacione spews:

    Nazis were also intent upon regular exercise and eating three squares a day.

    Do you want your kids subjected to that kind of Totalitarian Nazi Bullshit? I sure as hell don’t!

  26. 29

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Against guns

    Um, he built up the German army in an attempt to take over the world. Hitler was most certainly not against guns (he was against his enemies being armed of course – then again, so is the Bush Administration)

    So fucking what. Hitler was against the general population owning guns. Ah that right, lefties believe in their revisionist history they lobe to come up with. Dumbass.

  27. 30

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Against Freedom of Speech (Fairness doctrine, political correctness)

    Awesome. And I’m sure the Texas prosecutor who said that people can go to jail for promoting the idea of jury nullification is a Democrat.

    Oooooooh. That’s incriminating. Equating one prosecutor to a movement to shut down the other side because they can’t compete in the arena of free ideas. What a moonbat. hehehe

  28. 31

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Indoctrinating school children

    And the left believes in this more than the right does? Are you serious?

    Of course. The left controls the public screwls. The public screwls are full of leftist indoctrination. The sooner we shut down the current system the better.

  29. 32

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Pro socialism

    The first people he sent to concentration camps were Socialists.

    Well communists. Socialist will kill other socialists if they feel threatened.

  30. 33

    K spews:

    The left controls the schools, because they are the only ones who care. Given what we pay teachers and their potential career track, if one’s interest is in personal financial gain they will not choose teaching.

    If one had an aptitude for Math or Science, it is unlikely they could match private potential with public school salaries.

  31. 34

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    Pro socialism

    The first people he sent to concentration camps were Socialists.

    Isn’t Nazi just another term for National Socialists? Holy crap, this dumbass thinks the Nazi were against socialism. heehehehe figures.

  32. 35

    K spews:

    By that token, JBD, Mao’s China was a republic. They did call it the People’s Republic of China, didn’t they?

    Yeah, your analysis is deep, as deep as I expect from a dog.

  33. 36

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    The left controls the schools, because they are the only ones who care. Given what we pay teachers and their potential career track, if one’s interest is in personal financial gain they will not choose teaching.

    You mean the teachers. I beleive the teachers,taken as a whole, are neither left or right but indifferent. The teachers union sure the hell isn’t. They are the political machine used to extort money from taxpayers and to create new bureaucrats who are also members to increase its base. This is why public education is so expensive, yet delivers very little. There are many teachers who really care about kids who do not want to belong to this union. Of course many of them have no option. As long as the democrat are for the teachers union, they are against kids.

  34. 37

    spews:

    @29
    Hitler was against the general population owning guns.

    Bzzzt. Incorrect.

    http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

    And yes, that’s a pro-2nd Amendment site that’s calling bullshit on it.

    @30
    OK, if the left is so anti-free speech, give me ONE example of where someone on the left has threatened to put another person in jail for expressing a political opinion. And yes, I will also happily provide a link to the example I called out where a Republican prosecutor did so:

    http://www.theagitator.com/200.....other-way/

    @31
    Um, which side of the political fence wants prayer in school, numnuts?

    @32
    Yes, the first people imprisoned by the Nazis were Socialists and Communists.

    http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/ncamp.htm

    Study some history. Do your homework. Stop being a fucking retard here and then expecting us to treat you as if you’re something else.

  35. 38

    Don Joe spews:

    The left controls the schools, because they are the only ones who care.

    I do believe that’s the first correct statement you’ve made since you’ve started posting comments here, which, in an ironic, self-referential way, also happens to explain why that’s the first correct statement you’ve made since you’ve started posting comments here.

  36. 39

    Don Joe spews:

    re 38 My bad. I hadn’t noticed that you were actually quoting someone.

    ‘Course, most folks set a quotation apart from their own text either by using emphasis or, just imagine, quotation marks.

  37. 41

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    By that token, JBD, Mao’s China was a republic. They did call it the People’s Republic of China, didn’t they?

    Yeah you are right. They really don’t have too much choice on who they vote for.

  38. 42

    K spews:

    @41- the dog isn’t even trying to make sense anymore. Do dogs get Friday night cocktails?

  39. 43

    Hannah spews:

    BIAW unfortunately is ALL of our local politicians back pockets, maybe even the reason the Homeowners Bill of Rights failed. These guys are NUTS! Bat-shit crazy is a great description Goldy!

    All we have to do and look at the massive cookie cutter home developments everywhere around us…as an average property owner, you can not sub develop your land, unless of course you have deep pockets to grease the palms of those in charge. The CAO says 65% of your land can’t be touched, so why is when you sell that land to a developer, they can take up 85% of that very same land?

  40. 45

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    @31
    Um, which side of the political fence wants prayer in school, numnuts?

    No they want freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. No one is for forcing people to pray to God. There are a lot of lefties teaching lefty propaganda for grades. The best form for public education is vouchers.

  41. 46

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    32
    Yes, the first people imprisoned by the Nazis were Socialists and Communists.

    http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/ ncamp.htm

    Yes because the Nazi, even though in power in 1933, the Nazis were not supported by a majority (over 50% ..remember Clinton 1992) of voters. Germany had multiple parties in 1933 (just think of half a dozen Ross Perots). They got into power by eliminating their opponents by strong arm tactics. After they were firmly in control did they really flex their political muscle(gun control).

  42. 48

    2cents spews:

    One thing’s for sure, Jane Balough’s Dog and the BIAW are much more intimate with Hitler and the Nazi Party then I would claim to be.

    Please use your Hitler psychic hotline and tell me which of the three Presidential candidates he would vote for?

  43. 49

    I-Burn spews:

    @48 “Please use your Hitler psychic hotline and tell me which of the three Presidential candidates he would vote for? ”

    Obama*, because he’d want to do the worst possible thing for the United States…

    *That’s a RR joke, for the humor impaired…

  44. 50

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    2cents says:

    One thing’s for sure, Jane Balough’s Dog and the BIAW are much more intimate with Hitler and the Nazi Party then I would claim to be.

    Yeah, but liberals are not well acquainted with history let alone reality. No need to explain. roof roof

  45. 52

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    JBD (aka RUFUS) is am prime example of why we need to get “response threads”.

    That way people can reply to his idiotic nonsense, and still keep the main thread clean.

    Anything else is KAOS.

    Which is what my beloved HA is now.

  46. 54

    Mike spews:

    It’s pretty hilarious that the those on the right believe that the Nazis were liberal because they were the National Socialists.

    Or, it would be hilarious if it weren’t sad and pathetic.

  47. 55

    Jane Balough's Dog spews:

    BD (aka RUFUS) is am prime example of why we need to get “response threads”.

    That way people can reply to his idiotic nonsense, and still keep the main thread clean.

    Anything else is KAOS.

    Which is what my beloved HA is now.
    03/28/2008 at 10:17 pm

    The only reason HA has any influence whatsoever is because it lets people like me post their opinions. This and other lefty blogs are the only vehicles where the left can say they engage the right in political ideas in which they dictate the contexts of the argument. It precisely why right wing talk radio is so successful.

  48. 56

    FricknFrack spews:

    Wow! Here’s a story of a guy that must be as batshit crazy as both Jane Balough’s Dog & the BIAW. I mean, Metal picnic table in the freaking Cold? They even give his intake pic, for pete’s sake.

    Man Caught Having Sex with a Picnic Table http://www.firstcoastnews.com/.....yid=105778

    Like one poster said in another blog:
    “Probably been banned for life from the Wal-Mart Garden Shop”

  49. 57

    spews:

    Amazing how when Goldy makes a good point that cannot really be argued against rationally, some far-right wingnut comes out of the woodwork and spews all over the thread.

    Of course the comments of Mr. Musser are simply so far over the top that they would be comical, except for the fact that he’s also minimizing and marginalizing the sacrifice of so many that fought and died fighting the Nazis.

    And, of course, someone that considers the laws that prevent you from sending toxic runoff into your neighbor’s vegetable garden to be an example of police-state brutality would spew all over in defense of Mr. Musser.

    When a dog starts acting that crazy, it’s time to call animal control. Do not approach the dog, but keep well away, and if the dog bites you, seek medical attention immediately.

  50. 59

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @30 “Oooooooh. That’s incriminating. Equating one prosecutor to a movement to shut down the other side because they can’t compete in the arena of free ideas. What a moonbat. hehehe”

    Thanks for bringing that up, dog! It gives me the opportunity to remind everyone that your party’s trained chimp can’t stand opposition and, like Hitler, silences potential critics by carting them off to drafty buildings with bars over the windows.

    No one in America was ever arrested for their political views until you fucking GOP nazis came along.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/w.....ters_x.htm

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/ar.....estion.htm

    http://www.democracynow.org/20....._from_bush

  51. 60

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @49 “I-Burn says:

    @48 “Please use your Hitler psychic hotline and tell me which of the three Presidential candidates he would vote for? ”

    Obama*, because he’d want to do the worst possible thing for the United States…

    *That’s a RR joke, for the humor impaired… ”

    I don’t tell jokes. I never tell jokes. I do, however, steal comic material from Ann Coulter.

  52. 61

    Roger Rabbit spews:

    @56 You don’t want to get too close to that guy, in case he thinks you’re a picnic table, too.

  53. 62

    FricknFrack spews:

    @ 61, RR

    Did you SEE the pic of the guy in the article? He looks kind of normal! Bet nobody wants to visit his place for a picnic come summertime. EEWWWW!

  54. 63

    ArtFart spews:

    The construction/development industry in our state, is about to take a tremendous hit as the collapse of the real estate bubble overtakes our little corner of America. It will be truly ironic when these pinheads shuffle into Olympia and Washington DC, hardhats in hand, begging for a handout.

    Of course, the crooked contractors will find they won’t get much, because the crooked bankers got there ahead of them.

  55. 64

    rhp6033 spews:

    About a year ago, I pointed out that the logic imposed by one of the wingnuts (I think it was Mark the Redneck) resembled logic used by the Nazis. I was called to task for that, and after consideration I decided that I was out of line, and apologized. It’s not that I was intellectually wrong (the methods of reasoning were indeed similar), it’s just that the Nazi crimes were so enormous, that sticking anybody else with that label is unfair, unless they voluntarily take on that mantel themselves (neo-Nazi partys, and perhaps the KKK as well).

    Seems the wingnuts here don’t have any such qualms.

    But recently there’s some right-wing nut, I can’t remember his name, who’s been promoting a book saying pretty much the same thing as was in the BIAW piece. He was a guest of Carson Stewert on They Daily Show, a clip of which was posted here. Stewert pretty much wiped the floor with him in the course of a short interview. I suspect the BIAW guy just got through reading that book piece of trash, and just started regurgitating it.

    It’s a sign of being mentally lazy. The author (and several posters here) wanted to reach a conclusion (environmentalists are really really bad!), so they jumped at the comparison offered by this author. The fact that it’s utter nonsense doesn’t even slow them down. What the author did was start at a conclusion, and work backwards. But real logic works the other way.

    In this case, the author set up a straw-man (twisting Nazi philosophy from scant evidence to argue that it was environmentally-friendly), to creating another straw man (environmentalists and the DOE are militant like Nazis), until he gets to the point where he says: “See, both of my straw men look similar! They are both made out of straw!”

    Just a couple of historical notes, to correct some statements made by previous posters:

    * The Nazis didn’t fire-bomb London, in the same way that the British fire-bombed Dresden and the Americans fire-bombed Tokyo & other Japanese cities. The German Luftwaffe bombed London & other places, and some fires did result, however – a common occurance where there are gas lines in a city which are broken by bombing.

    * The Nazis didn’t outlaw private ownership of guns. They did, however, require them to be registered, limited them mostly to hunting guns, and prohibited quite a few from owning them. In other words, they continued the controls which had pretty much been in place for the previous couple of hundred years or so in the various German states. But if you weren’t among those prohibited from owning guns, you were encouraged to join a gun or a hunting club, to learn marksmanship in an organized fashion.

    * Nazi philosophy is very hard to pin down. It isn’t logically consistent, it goes all over the board. That’s because it starts with a conclusion (Jews are bad, Aryans are good, Germans would be the rightful leaders of teh world if they weren’t so unfairly oppressed). It then tries to create a science/justification for those beliefs (psudo-science, forged documents), which eventually becomes obviously absurd, and then throws in a basketful of emotional hot-buttons from which the German populace could pick and choose, until they found one they liked. The fact that these issues were often inconsistent with one another didn’t stop them at the time. But it does encourage some modern-day people pick and choose among them to unfairly besmirch any group with which they don’t agree.

  56. 65

    Mr. Cynical spews:

    ArtFart says:
    “The construction/development industry in our state, is about to take a tremendous hit as the collapse of the real estate bubble overtakes our little corner of America. It will be truly ironic when these pinheads shuffle into Olympia and Washington DC, hardhats in hand, begging for a handout.”

    ArtFart–
    Do you have any clue whatsoever how many $$ in tax revenue the Construction Industry contributes to the State coffers?
    I think the Construction Industry is and will be taking a hit as you point out. But so will Gregoire and the Democratic controlled Legislature and all of us.
    You seem incapable of connecting the dots.
    Were you a government employee like Rog Rabbit?
    At least Rog understands what tax revenues the Construction Industry contributes.
    Do you live in a house that a builder built ArtFart??

  57. 66

    My Left Foot spews:

    How does one become batshit crazy? Well, like our friend (Mr. Cyniclown) you must must smoke copious amounts of batshit on a daily basis. Cyniclown also sprinkles it on his Froot Loops every morning and stirs some in with his Metamucil each night.

    This blog was so much better off when Cyniclown swore off posting here. Now, in typical rightwing tradition, he has of course gone back on his word. This by the way makes him a liar.

    I expected no more.

  58. 67

    slingshot spews:

    This Greenie = Nazi thing ain’t new. Here’s a link to the honorable Sen. Inhofe referring to global warming adherents as Nazis in ’06. http://thinkprogress.org/2006/.....ird-reich/
    Google “comparing environmentalists to nazis” to find a bunch more of this fuck-moppery.
    I’ve been an electrical contractor for many a year and absolutely resisted joining the builders groups because of their right-wing slant. Unfortunately though, to take part in the state’s RIAA program a contractor has to join. The RIAA program refunds industrial insurance premiums to contractors who have clean safety records and no claims. I tried to get someone at L & I to explain to me why I had to join a partisan political lobbying group to receive my share of the pot….they couldn’t or wouldn’t. The BIAW’s monthly news letter is about the most pathetic piece of garbage you’ll ever have the pleasure to peruse. General contractors, and specifically home builders are the biggest bunch of whinning ninnies I’ve ever been around.
    What has evolved here is municipal government has realized that the rampant, uncontrolled (or under controlled) development of the past creates serious problems down the road that taxpayers end up paying for; storm water run-off, traffic, municipal services, etc. So now they’re only asking/demanding some self-responsibilty on the part of the building industry; pay for it. These costs get passed on to the customer anyway, and in the Puget Sound area most people are willing and able to pay for sound, honest and proven building practices.

  59. 68

    Daddy Love spews:

    That was funny as hell, especially the part about the tensions between neo-Nazis and neo-Stalinists at the WCV workshop.

  60. 69

    Two Dogs spews:

    @65 Built my own house. It’s not that hard. And the inspectors aren’t a problem — they’re basically helpful and help you do it right. The builders are a bunch of whiners — that’s true and that’s ok, I guess. But when they conspire to screw up everything for all of us, that’s a serious issue that needs to be dealt with.

  61. 70

    YLB spews:

    64 – Yep, that’s Jonah “Doughy Pantload” Goldberg and his joke of a discredited book “Liberal Fascism”.

  62. 72

    Rujax! spews:

    Goldy-

    Re-prints should be sent to every Washington State Legislator.

    BTW “dog”…

    …you lost Hannah. she was pretty neutral when she got here and she JUST MIGHT be beginning to understand why all the vitriol around here.

  63. 73

    Ed Weston spews:

    When are they going to identify/find the envirenmental leader whose only got one gonad, and only one grandfather. Whose girlfriend’s usually suicide. That’s all they’ll need for confirmation.

  64. 75

    YLB spews:

    Does one have to take classes to become this stupid?

    Indeed. The following was the class schedule at the feces-eating cur’s homeschool:

    7:30am Breakfast: cap’n crunch, lucky charms, cheetos, Coke Classic.
    8:00am Flush Limpblows
    9:00am Faux Noise
    10:00am: break – watch torture porn
    10:15am: Wingnut math – zero tax = infinite gov revenues.
    11:00am: History – endless war.
    12:00pm: Lunch break: Doritos with velveeta, cheetos, Mountain Dew.
    12:30pm: PE – marching to war music.
    1:00pm: Business class – studies of rich right wing billionaire “patriots”: Scaife, Murdoch and Moon
    2:00pm: English – National Review, Weekly Standard, Regnery, Coulter, Malkin.
    3:00pm Dismissal

    Homework – watch Faux Noise and listen to right wing talk radio until your eardrums and eyeballs hurt and you pass out.

  65. 76

    spews:

    Mr Cynical?

    I do recognize that the building industry contributes quite a bit to the economy. I sell this stuff for a living, after all.

    And, being that I personally know a number of builders, and realize that most of them are pretty good folks that work hard and take some pride in their work, I may have a perspective that some of my fellow liberals lack.

    But… Exactly how does that excuse the BIAW from coming out with a hit piece comparing the entire environmental movement to the Nazis?

    Comparing Earth First to the Nazis might be just barely understandable. Fire bombings and destruction of property is completely unacceptable, and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    But if you’re going to lump folks like me, who simply work within the law for responsible environmental laws, with folks like Earth First, then you have to take responsibility for folks like Mr. McVeigh, who killed off a bunch of pre-schoolers in the Oklahoma City bombing.

    If I’m responsible for the left-wing whackos, then you’re responsible for the right-wing whackos.

    Or, we could both disown our respective nut-job whacked-out losers, condemn their actions, and recognize that the far left whackos and the far right whackos have far more in common with each other than they do with anyone else.

  66. 77

    Tlazolteotl spews:

    @11

    Sorry, zip. The scientific research says you’re dead wrong on that. Unfortunately for salmon. In fact, nonpoint pollution is probably one of the biggest threats to juvenile salmon survival. We need to do more on stormwater and nonpoint pollution, not less.

    – Exposure to levels of PAHs that are present in runoff kill and maim fish as they develop in the egg and into fry. The lighter PAHs present in gasoline have been shown to block the action of a protein in the developing heart, and this kills the embryo outright or leads to a sick, weakened fry with a malformed heart.

    – Exposure to a mixture of pesticides found by the USGS in watersheds all over the state, but particularly in the Yakima and Columbia Rivers, has been shown to cause neurological damage to salmon so that they may have impaired smell, which means that they have problems returning to their natal streams to spawn.

    – Juvenile salmon in the Lower Columbia are exposed to high levels of chemicals like DDTs and PBDEs, which are coming from landfill and agricultural runoff, at levels which may suppress their immune systems and cause them to be more susceptible to viruses, parasites, and bacterial diseases.

    I can back this all up with references, not that you would read them.

  67. 78

    new left conservative #1 spews:

    Hi all,

    Goldy is right of course, the comparison is overblown and disrespectful to the victims of Nazism.

    However,

    I’m a green, an environmentalist and ardent and very public about it–and I believe we are ignoring the hatred that is building for us and our movement at our own peril. Overblown rhetoric is an indicator that reasonable people might and do share these views–as are some of the posts above. We need to learn to have more empathy for the people who are affected by the laws that are passed in our name. There are even plenty of instances where we could do this without reducing env. protections. Let me give an example:

    In King County there is a 65/35 rule that is creating a huge reservoir of anger to the east of us here in liberal Seattle. I won’t comment now on it’s merits, except to say this: if we tell folks they can’t develop 65 percent of their land, can we at least agree not to tax that land?

    Taxing that land has to be that final sprinkling of salt on the wound for some–can’t we make up the slack by paying the bill for it here in Seattle, where nobody has 65% of their land undeveloped in the first place? The idea that landowners are all rich and can afford to pay easily is a couple of centuries out of date.

    With thanks to everyone as I watch two Glaucous-winged Gulls attempting to drive away an eagle overhead here in urban Seattle–New Left Conservative #1

  68. 79

    zip spews:

    Tlazolteotl

    I stand by my statement: The “broad brush” approach taken to stormwater ostensibly to “save the salmon” is way more than required for environmental protection on many sites.

    Prove me wrong.

  69. 80

    The Blatantly Obvious spews:

    @ 55, under a tiered “response thread” system, you can leave your droppings posts anytime you want. All the tier system does is make a single post a new subthread were people of patience and intelligence can rip your feeble arguments to pieces, and wish your gonads be removed.

    You still get to demonstrate your lack or reasoning ability in public, but other posts do not get lost in the KAOS you attempt to introduce.

  70. 81

    zip spews:

    Tlazolteotl

    Your anecdotes prove what…that many sites are a potential source of non point runoff harmful to salmon fry. Ok fine.

    I am referring to sites that are not a potential source of non point runoff harmful to salmon fry. They are subject to the same Ecology stormwater manual. That is the “broad brush” that I refer to.

  71. 82

    busdrivermike spews:

    It is true that Hitler wanted to protect all the wetlands in Yogoslavia, finland, latvia, ukraine, poland, Russia, France, He was even working on protecting England on wetlands protection.

    Kind of in the same way GW Bush is trying to protect the Iraqi oil fields.

  72. 83

    busdrivermike spews:

    The difference being, Hitler was successful in his endeavors. The Republican gang that cannot shoot straight cannot even make a clean getaway from the largest gas station robbery in the history of the world.

  73. 84

    busdrivermike spews:

    Yes, that Hitler. What an environmentalist!

    After Kristlnacht, he had all the bodies immediately recycled into compost. True story.

  74. 85

    busdrivermike spews:

    In fact, all gas chambers in the Third Reich were mandated to be solar powered by 1948. They also rode bicycles in Germany. Who else rides bicycles……Seattle liberals.

  75. 86

    busdrivermike spews:

    And where do Birkenstocks come from?

    That’s right. Germany.

    Germany even had a “peoples car”. Blatant liberalism, because Republicans rode in Cadillacs.

  76. 87

    mark spews:

    A few years ago we had like 10″ of rain in one day. The
    Tacoma Narrows Bridge builder had a small mudslide into
    the sound and the bastards at DOE fined the builder
    $20,000 for his “neglect”. The next day our CUNT governor
    asked the federal government for money because 18 of
    Washingtons counties were declared disaster zones. You
    know the kind, when rivers turn brown with silt sort of
    like they have for millions of years. Come on,almost a
    thousand pages of bullshit so a little silt stays put.
    BIAW, my renewal is in the mail. Thanks for all that you do
    in the name of affordable housing and common sense. Goldy,
    you are in need of a bitchslap.

  77. 88

    busdrivermike spews:

    “Goldy, you are in need of a bitchslap.”

    Goldy may have the stepladder you would need, but I am pretty sure he does not want to be slapped by you, bitchwelcher.

  78. 90

    Ed Weston spews:

    At 74
    Sorry didn’t check back on that. Per the book, Dictators in the medical Mirror. The single gonad you might have heard about. The single grandfather might be news. His sex life is not for the sensitive of stomach. A very submissive sexual kinda guy, and yes most of his girl fiends committed suicide, and not after he dumped them.

  79. 91

    Bob the Builder spews:

    The street of dreams fire was a classic insurance scam. The builders knew they couldn’t sell an overpriced house in the suburbs in the falling market. So they torched the house on the eve of the ELF trial so everyone would make the logical connection. They collect the insurance money and ELF gets the blame. The truth will come out soon. The FBI knows that they have effectively shut ELF down and they couldn’t possibly have carried out this attack.

  80. 92

    Ramboy spews:

    I work in Olympia with the legislature. The BIAW is the biggest fascist repressive group of fucking obstructionists I have seen in my years down here. They team up with the no talent yet well funded Realtors(R), and you have the greatest “coalition of self-interest” in the history of Washington. Only the fuckstick membership of the BIAW would enjoy the stormwater column. They make me want to vomit.