I love Madison. I really do.
I began the third grade living with my (recently divorced) mother and two sisters in a one bedroom apartment in an inner-city Chicago neighborhood. In January 1970, over Christmas break, we moved to Madison. It was an distinct improvement; that part of third grade became transformational.
The University of Wisconsin campus spaces (where my mother was a new student) were filled with singing and anti-war protests. I became aware of the struggle over the Vietnam war and, at the same time, I learned about police brutality. The UW campus community filled the public schools on the first earth day–I became aware of the environment, resource limitations, and population problems. Life was kaleidescope of lessons in politics, populism, environmentalism, radicalism…and even violent extremism, when four young anti-war activists blew up the Army Math Research Center, unintentionally killing a physics researcher in another part of the building. And, damn, there was some good music.
I was too young to participate, or even identify with, the movement, but I soaked it up—I was an observer.
Madison was home for two more decades. I went to the University of Wisconsin–Madison and earned Bachelors and Masters degrees. I worked my way through college, for small companies, for the University, and by starting my own company. By the time I left in 1990, Madison, like much of the country, had become tame, domesticated, pacified. The radicals of the 1970s were now raising their own teenagers, if not becoming grandparents. They were living the Big Chill. Priorities change.
Most of my family still live in Madison, so I visit a couple time a year. The past decade had been hard on the region, economically and psychologically. A mild gloom and sense of struggle has taken hold. And then, in 2010, Wisconsin experienced some kind of collective depression; they voted a bunch of radical right wing whack-jobs into office.
On Wednesday morning I got a call from my niece. “Uncle Darryl…I’m not in school today. Know why?”
“I sure do, Elena.”
I was delighted that school had been cancelled in Madison as tens of thousands of public employees flocked to the Capitol building to protest the extremist legislation proposed by Gov. Walker.
The Governor proposes to strip away rights for public employees that have been in place for decades. Well fuck him.
My darling niece then proceeded to describe the injustice she felt was being done to teachers and other public employees and how she and her friends wouldn’t stand for it. I do believe I teared up very slightly.
Now I’m thinking that after some decades of slumber…these people have awakened. They feel again, and they don’t like what the extremists in office are shoving up their back side. Yeah…I fully expect that Walker will get his chance to shit all over the public employees. But his party is going to pay.
My prediction…2012 will be a bad year for Republicans in Wisconsin.
Gallup Finds U.S. Unemployment Up to 10.0% in Mid-FebruaryUnderemployment surged to 19.6% in mid-February from 18.9% at the end of January
The awakening will be when Obama is no longer in office, and a president who gets gives a damn about getting people back to work more than his trillion dollar boondoggles and his highness’s lavish vacations.
He is a disaster!
Oh and by the way, the idiot president, congress and senate have been stripping benefits away from our retirement system on a regular basis, by spending our social security. And by Pissing away trillions, they are leaving massive debt for the generations to come. What makes you think that Government workers should be spared the same pain the private sector is and has been enduring under this administration? Government workers Will feel the very same pains as the private sector, I will guarantee you that in the coming year!
Being a former Madison (well, Sun Prairie) resident myself, I’ve followed the story rather closely. One of the more untold parts of the story is that Wisconsin wasn’t in a fiscal crisis when Gov. Walker took office. The crisis only came about when Gov. Walker and friends decided that their supporters were due a few subsidies.
Nothing like creating a fiscal crisis in order to achieve your political aims.
@3
Yup – there’s always a Big Lie behind these convenient crises.
‘Disaster Capitalism’ writ cheesehead.
But first they have to survive to 2012. We’ve got two years of tea party to get through.
Like the Iraq war? Tax cuts for billionaires?
You mean Chris Christie’s vacation to Florida while NJ was buried in snow?
Not if their unions, and apparently the people of Wisconsin (to start with) have anything to say about it. Republican policies have been turning this country into a neofeudal state – vast concentrations of wealth in fewer and fewer hands, while people who actually create wealth – labor – have been raped and pillaged and turned into serfs. The wholesale assault on working people is indeed moving to the public sector, now that the private sector workers have had their bones picked clean.
the progressive democratic senators in WI are an embarrassment to this nations political system and should be arrested as soon as they get back into the state.
what the fuck? so you dont like a piece of legislation, you just run away like little girls and shut the political process down?
Now had the rolls been reversed and it was the republican senators that left the state, the HA faithful would be in full-froth mode.
What a joke….it doesnt matter what the subject of the vote is, you just cant run away and wreck the process because you think “your side” might lose.
Every one of these fucks should be thrown in jail….why is it that the progressives always throw a tantrum when they dont get their way? damned children is all they are.
Great post, Darryl. It would be great to see Madison become the place from which the emerging, real 21st C comes to America, ending the 51% political mindset that put us in Iraq, brought us the Roberts Court, and causes Democrats to wilt on cue. It would be great to live in a US in which people matter again.
@3 and 4.
Hmm..so there was no financial crisis until the WI gov took power eh?
HE ONLY TOOK OFFICE A MONTH AGO!
So somehow WI was doing just dandy until a month ago?
Nice try assholes.
Oh, and if the state’s budget is all his fault(in the last month, LMFAO), how come the queen of washington gets such a pass for running this state into the ground?
hypocrisy…its whats for dinner.
@ 9
HE ONLY TOOK OFFICE A MONTH AGO!
So somehow WI was doing just dandy until a month ago?
That is, in fact, quite correct. Follow the link. The piece I linked contains a link to the Fiscal Bureau’s report that confirms this.
Oh, and if the state’s budget is all his fault
Well, no. He did have some help from the Republicans in control of the state legislature.
Doesn’t take Republicans very long to fuck things up, does it?
@9 You are ignorant of the facts:
From the State of Wisconsin Legislative Fiscal Bureau
“Our estimates include the impacts of all law changes enacted in prior years and three of the
January 2011 Special Session bills: (a) SS SB 2, which federalizes the treatment of health
savings accounts; (b) SS AB 3, which would create an income and franchise tax deduction or
credit for businesses that relocate to Wisconsin; and (c) SS AB 7, which would create an income and franchise tax deduction for businesses that increase employment in the state. SS SB 2 has been enacted into law as 2011 Act 1. The other two bills have passed both Houses of the Legislature, and the Governor has indicated that he will sign them. It is estimated that, together, these three bills will reduce general fund tax collections by $55.2 million in 2011-12 and $62.0 million in 2012-13…”
The main culprits are given in the quotation above, but you can find out what the entire @137MM shortfall comes from if you take the time to educate yourself. If you want to be educated,that is.
Go read the whole thing yourself…
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb.....arling.pdf
We can nit pick and debate every individual tax cut, proposed bill, bailout and such forever. Or you can pull back and look at the ACTUAL impact (not future/proposed/possible/theoretical). What HAS ACTUALLY happened in the last 10 years? Not what do we THINK MIGHT happen…what did? We had one of the worst financial crisis since the great depression, the stock market dropped from 13K to 6,600. Home values cratered. The lower/middle class saw themselves upside down in mortgages and their salaries stagnate. What about the top 5%? They had huge INCREASES in wealth and income growth.
So we can debate all the little distractions (this program costs $13.5B, NO it cost $6.8B, blah blah) or just look at the big picture. Americans spend more than we have. Individually, and therefore NOT surprisingly in government (under EVERY President, including EVERY Republican since JFK, though Clinton came the closest to a truly balanced budget, ahem).
The only way the Republicans could have ANY (and I mean ANY) place to talk about the evils of spending is if THEY had offset/paid for/cut spending to MATCH their spending/programs:
Iraq/Afghanistan: $1 trillion
Medicare Drug Benefit: $500 billion
Tax ‘stimulus’ cuts: ~$700 billion
Why DIDN’T the Republicans pay for A SINGLE ONE of those programs by spending cuts? Because you’d HAVE TO cut into Medicare, Social Security and the Military to find THAT kind of money. You can’t cut NASA enough to fund that stuff.
And just saying “will look at Obama and HIS spending on the stimulus plan!” is just childish. Saying “he did it too” doesn’t make the other side any better. Both George W. Bush and Obama (and Reagan) claimed they spent on what they did because hey “had to” to stimulate the economy, get out of a recession, fight the Soviets or something. There’s ALWAYS a reason. Always. Either side will ALWAYS justify why their shit. We HAD to free the oppressed Muslims of Iraq…no MATTER what the cost to the United States, it’s about FREEDOM! We HAD to spend down the Soviets! We HAD to stimulate the economy! Blah blah blah.
Fuckin hippies.
Excellent post. Keep up the great work!
From the Capital Times, in Madison (via TPM):
And this,, from TPM:
This has directly to do with the fact that wages/income for all but the most wealthy have been utterly stagnant since the Reagan administration.
Anyone who actually works for a living has been relentlessly screwed by the system erected by neoconservative republicans.
-Break unions.
-Offshore jobs.
-Economic insecurity.
-Eviscerated educational systems.
-Wars – for both distraction and for diverting HUGE sums of money toward corporations.
-Gigantic debt – caused by disproportionate military spending and tax cuts aimed at the wealthy. This moves the burden of government onto the non-rich, it also incapacitates government’s ability to maintain a level playing field, indeed a livable society.
Our society is being converted into a neofeudal state, with a thin layer of halves and a gigantic mass of poorly educated, dispirited, disempowered and disenfranchised worker drones. This is the conservative wet dream – brought to you wrapped in a flag, paranoid of ‘enemies’, banging a Bible railing about abortion and gays and immorality.
This fiendish evil must be utterly vanquished.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Every body remains in a state of rest or uniform motion (constant velocity) unless it is acted upon by an external unbalanced force (i.e., dumb Republicans).
re 13: Which Republican president claimed to be spending money to stimulate the economy?
http://www.eschatonblog.com/2011/02/nice-work.html
Asshole Republican motherfuckers. Greedy, selfish sons of bitches.
…add to 19…
And SHAME SHAME SHAME on the quisling Democrats who won’t stand up for their constituancy.
@7: Where was your faux outrage when House Republicans in Oregon fled the Capitol to avoid voting on a cigarette tax hike to pay for health insurance for kids (while, incidentally, Jeff Merkley was the Speaker of the House)? Oh, right. Logical consistency is not your forte.
@18: Bush, George W. When he mailed checks worth $400 or $800 to every American family, in 2007 or 2008 (I think 2008).
The Wisconsin crisis has laid bare the Republican hatred of unions and working people. Walker, couldn’t wait to put into action the Koch brothers’ recipe for toppling public employee unions. No negotiations were even occurring; he simply stroked his boner because he could. Wisconsin, despite the 2010 election results, is not a conservative state. The Rs have way overplayed their hand. Their comeuppance is coming.
The fact that Wisconsin had a projected surplus for the current fiscal year that was swallowed up and surpassed by the Governor’s frivolous tax cuts has been picked up all across in-state media
The lie is exposed.
They don’t know it yet, but Wisconsin Rs may well get what they asked for now and lose the state for a generation. Ask he California Republican Party how well pissing off a huge voting block works out. Wisconsin Rs are fighting to get a fraction of their self inflicted deficit from motivated future voters and still have no plan to pay for the rest of those tax breaks.
Prediction. The Governor will get and sign this legislation. He will be trounced by whatever breathing sack of flesh the Dems next nominate. Wisconsin will not elect another R Governor, U.S. Senator or R state majority for 20 years.
@23…
On to Ohio. These idiots are exposing themselves as the liars, cheats and thieves they really are.
Sure wish we had a Democrat in the White House.
re 14: A hippie commune might be the best thing goin’ after the Republicans destroy this countries economy and start raping what’s left of our natural resources like we were some weak Central American dictatorship.
Remember, the second amendment can also be used to keep freeloading Republicans out of the truck garden.
re 21: “@18: Bush, George W. When he mailed checks worth $400 or $800 to every American family, in 2007 or 2008 (I think 2008).”
They were advances on your income tax refund. I know — because after Bush’s ‘gift’, I owed the gov’t money for that year.
So, Darryl, you were one of those carpetbaggers from Chicago who are continually invading Madison and turning it into Bangladesh? Since border patrols haven’t been enough to keep out the hordes of Chicagoans seeking to migrate northward maybe it’s time to build a border fence.
I see in this morning’s news that unrest is spreading throughout the Middle East and Wisconsin as popular uprisings challenge tyrannical regimes.
re 24: “Sure wish we had a Democrat in the White House.”
Amen to that! Politics in Democratic hands is the art of what Republicans might allow them to do.
Here’s the Obama negotiation style: “Here’s everything you want. Now, what do I get?”
Fact-challenged numbskull @2: “What makes you think that Government workers should be spared the same pain the private sector is and has been enduring under this administration?”
What makes you think they have been? Try reading a fucking newspaper once in a while so you know a little of what’s going on in the world, imbecile.
@2 (continued) If you’re at all fair-minded, though, since Republicans caused this recession it’s fair that only Republicans should suffer from it.
Yawn.
I suppose you’ve all heard by now about that
Tucson firefighter who refused to respond to the Giffords shooting “because he had different political views than his colleagues and ‘did not want to be part of it.'”
“Mark Ekstrum’s insubordination may have delayed his unit’s response because firefighters had to stop at another station to pick up a replacement for him, the Arizona Daily Star reported. … Ekstrum’s supervisor said his actions caused ‘confusion and delay’ during the emergency.”
Ekstrum can’t be disciplined because the 28-year veteran retired two days later — presumably with a full pension.
http://www.firefighternation.c.....refused-to
Roger Rabbit Commentary: I suppose it won’t be long now before 911 dispatchers start asking about your party affiliation before they send fire trucks, Medic 1, or police to your home.
@7 This tactic wouldn’t be necessary if the Wisconsin Senate had a filibuster rule, like the U.S. Senate does, so that one senator can block any legislation he doesn’t like, as GOP Sen. Jim Bunning did when he held up an extension of unemployment benefits for millions of America’s unemployed workers.
@9 “the queen of washington gets such a pass for running this state into the ground?”
Washington doesn’t have a queen, we have a governor who was elected twice by the people of our state, courtesy of the shortcomings of three-time loser Dino Lossi.
And our governor didn’t run this state into the ground; Republican economic policies at the national level did that.
Get your facts straight, twit.
My stock portfolio is up 40% since Sept. 1, and is now worth 17% more than its peak pre-crash value. I’m doing just fine under the reckless Republican policies that created asset bubbles in housing, stocks, and commodities while destroying tens of millions of American jobs.
@32…
Dear Republican Asshole…
Fuck.
Off.
@13 Actually, Reagan’s vast spending on paper weapons systems that didn’t work (and still don’t) had little, if anything, to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The Soviet structure was a wobbly house of cards that probably would have fallen of its own accord, but if you want to look for a particular push that knocked it over, then the world owes its thanks to the Afghan freedom fighters who did for the Politburo what Ho Chi Minh did for LBJ.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....gods-will/
More Christianist ass-holery.
@23 Speaking of pissing off future generations, Washington’s last Republican governor, John Spellman, went out of his way to fuck with Washington state employees by holding back their paychecks for four weeks and ordering DSHS to illegally deny food stamps to state employees — and Spellman became a one-term governor and his party hasn’t won a governor’s election here ever since. That’s, let’s see, 26 years in the wilderness and counting …
Yeah, I think the Wisconsin GOP is going to pay very dearly for their union-bashing bullshit …
It’s not just about the ginned up fiscal “crisis”. It’s about the attempt to strip the unions of any power. It would would gut the workers of the right to bargain over anything other than wages, which could not rise faster than the Consumer Price Index. State workers would also no longer be able to negotiate for better pensions or health benefits.
Just declare them Serfs and get it over with.
Here is a fundamental question
Id and the rest of you conservatives, do you think a group of people have the rights to ban together to improve their bargaining position?
I do.
Anyone got any good links?
What are you reading that’s local to Wisconsin?
Both pro and con. I’d be interested in what the Wisconsin cons are saying about this too.
Given the Link filter, this may to be possible to post….
@38
A Polish Pope with the vast treasure of the Catholic Church to funnel to Lech Walensa and the Solidarity movement didn’t have anything to do with it either.
It was all St. Ron’s doing.
Whales 1, Pirates 0
In other news, Orcas Island-based Sea Shepherd Conservation Society has succeeded in forcing the Japanese whaling pirates to end their illegal poaching in the Antarctic Whale Sanctuary and send their gangster whaling fleet home. Maybe it’s time to bomb Japanese ports again so they won’t be back next year.*
* Just kidding! Wingnut terrorist joke. See, e.g., abortion clinics.
Hey Trolls, brainless righties and Free-Marketers…
How come the standard mantra defending massive Executive Compensation packages (“We need to offer high compensation to compete and attract the best talent…”) never applies to workers down the chain?
So you WANT the least skilled and least able to find a hihger paying job to end up as teachers, Prison guards or administering the state’s public services?
@41 It seems to me if wages can’t go up more than CPI, then the workers should be guaranteed that their wages won’t go up less than CPI, either.
Republican Labor Strategy
Step 1: Plunge the nation into depression to create a huge pool of unemployed workers.
Step 2: Take advantage of high unemployment to impose lower wages, benefit takeaways, and less favorable working conditions on desperate workers.
Seems to be working so far.
I found
http://comments.startribune.co.....ion=/local
So you WANT the least skilled and least able to find a higher paying job to end up as teachers, Prison guards or administering the state’s public services?
If it lowers their tax bill by $10 a month, then yes.
I read that there is now a protest aimed against Walker supporters.
@43 Rotten treatment of Soviet veterans of the Afghan war were a factor, too. America treated its Vietnam veterans badly, but nothing like what the “Afgantsi” (Soviet-Afghan war veterans) experienced.
Russian youths were conscripted at age 19 (of course, sons of party officials and other well-connected parents were exempt) and underwent Soviet military training (which included regular beatings and other abuse that is illegal in the U.S. military services), then served two years of “international duty” in Afghanistan (compared to 1-year combat tours for American troops in Vietnam), where they braved mines, ambushes, snipers, ground combat, bad weather, and worse food. The one thing they had going for them was fairly rapid medevac evacuation from the battlefield by helicopter if they were wounded.
When a Soviet soldier’s service expiration date came up, he was transported from Afghanistan to Tashkent, and that was it — from there, he had to get home on his own. And buying a rail or air ticket on a Soviet private’s pay was anything but easy.
The Soviet Union did not have a Veterans Administration. If you were wounded or disabled, tough shit, there was no medical care or disability benefits. And you didn’t expect a homecoming parade, either, because the Soviet public didn’t even know there was a war going on. Soviet authorities tried to hide that fact from their constituents.
If you were killed in combat, government decrees required that no funeral service would be held and you would be buried in the middle of the night, because the government didn’t want the public to know that its soldiers were being killed in a foreign war that officially didn’t exist.
When pro-communist plotters tried to stage a coup against Boris Yeltsin, they were stopped thousands of Afghan War veterans who surrounded government buildings and fought the communists. Yeltsin’s government survived because of them.
@41: Sure I believe people have the right to join Unions and for those Unions to negotiate on their behalf. Just like I believe that I should be able to decline Union membership and whether it be to my benefit or detriment, negotiate with a company on an individual basis.
I thought Libs were big on the freedom of choice? or is it only when it involves abortion.
@49 I think they’d do it even if it lowered their tax bills by zero, because Republicans are willing to hate on workers just for the exercise.
@52 You’ve always had the right to work for a non-union company and accept non-union wages.
Not that I see any Republicans working for non-union wages, though. That’s a one-way street. Republicans want to pay Republican wages, but they wouldn’t dream of working for Republican wages.
By the way, I’ll bet that Tucson firefighter who refused to respond to the Giffords shooting belonged to a union and made something like, oh, I’m guessing around $130,000 a year counting overtime.
All the Seattle cops who vote for Second Amendment rights and against civil rights belong to a union, too, and with a decent amount of overtime they’re making $90,000 to $120,000 not counting what they get from moonlighting as off-duty cops. And I’d guess their pension, when they retire, is about three times what I get as a retired state employee. Yep, being a pro-union Republican cop who’s against anyone else having a union is a pretty sweet gig, if you can get hired. That’s what Ian Birk threw away when he got an itchy trigger finger.
Well, with revolutions going on in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Tehran, and Madison, the world is becoming a more interesting place. Let democracy flower! Down with tyrants everywhere!
Good story on the Wisconsin situation in Slate:
http://www.salon.com/books/his.....onal_guard
This governor is a throwback to the old days, a true dinosaur. He hates democracy and respects only executive power. The brutal, anti-majoritarian face of contemporary Republicanism is exposed now.
Just like I believe that I should be able to decline Union membership and whether it be to my benefit or detriment, negotiate with a company on an individual basis.
I admire your fierce individualism. It’s got to be scary to work without a net of 40 hour weeks, or overtime, or negotiated health insurance, or work place safety. You must must be damned good, single, in good health, and young, and doing something that cannot be done in India for a lot less.
I bet you are big into Social Darwinism too.
60
Pretty scary fellow, isn’t he?
Just think how would the conservatives and the blogasphere be acting if Gregoire had called up the Washington Guard to disperse a Teabagger rally?
(I’m unable to think of a labor group associated with conservatives, to make a closer analogy.)
# 43: You might also want to consider Hungary, which was the first Eastern European to throw open it’s borders to the west. Because other Eastern European countries could travel rather freely withing Eastern Europe, this had the effect of a small hole in a dike becoming a gapping chassim. Within a couple of days tens of thousands of young East Germans were taking “backpacking trips” to Hungary, and they didn’t stop at the border, heading right into West Germany. Other Eastern Europeans were right behind them, including those from Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc. At that point the Berlin Wall became a mute point, because nobody was crossing there – they were all going through Hungary. I think that in less than a week the East Germans simply stopped guarding the crossings, and within a few hours later German youth were dancing on top of the wall.
With Eastern Europe gone, the USSR empire was destined to break up shortly thereafter.
Signs with bullseye’s on Walker’s head, calling him Hitler, Mussolini and much, much worse..all FOR THE CHILDREN.
The Civil War in America is on.
Obama is staking his Presidency on the outcome as this battle will certainly extend beyond 2012 as virtually all states face budget realities.
Public Servants vs. those who were elected to represent those those they serve.
How in the world can being asked to only pay 50% of the Health Care & Pension contributions average private sector workers pay be deemed as anti-children.
I don’t get it.
I think the Unions will lose.
@26: That’s simply not the case. Those checks went out to every working adult, even those who don’t pay federal income taxes. And they were categorized by Bush as being ‘stimulus.’
@52: You’re always welcome to work at an open shop, or move to a “Right to Work (for very little, in unsafe conditions, and with no rights)” state. I hear South Carolina’s nice. The simple fact is that union dues are expensive. Workers DON’T organize unless they have a damn good reason to. If a company wants to avoid unionization, they can treat their employees fairly and reasonably. Is it true that some unions outlive their usefulness? Absolutely. Should we throw out all of the gains that unions have brought us in order to cure the few bad eggs? To quote the Speaker, “Hell no!”
You have no fucking idea of what the issues are. You have no fucking clue about the way the middle class is being systematically dismantled in this country.
What a fucking fool.
@67…
And quit using the name of the great musician as your handle. You dishonor the man’s name.
I tried posting this earlier, but it doesn’t appear, but keeps telling me I already posted it – I think I’m in some sort of cyber-vortex.
Anyway, spewing….
@67 Oh, he knows, all right; but, like all Republicans, he’s a liar who is intentionally misstating what the issues are, because … well … because the Republican position is indefensible.
People employed by any government entity should not be allowed to join or have unions, much less engage in collective bargaining. Government workers don’t know how good they have it.
Someone was talking about class warfare on the radio and it clicked. I always assumed it was everyone else vs the rich, but I was wrong. It’s also people who work at right to work shops with low wages, low stability and low benefits who are so desperately envious of the benefits and wages of the union shops that they would strive to bust unions, because then those other “lazy’ guys would have to work as hard as them.
In a school I went to, we had a miserable, awful teacher for one class. (This was a private school without a union and the teacher was hired because he was really cheap, not because he was any good. He could have been fired in a heartbeat but he was the only one they could find who would work for offered wages.) There was a faction of the students who didn’t want the teacher replaced. Their reasoning was that since they had suffer under this miserable failure, instead of advocating for a new and better teacher, he should be kept on, so subsequent years could have an equally miserable class. Instead of making it better for later generations, they wanted it just as bad.
Ever heard the crab-in-the-barrel syndrome? Put a bunch of crabs in a barrel. As one draws closer to the top of his barrel, nearing his escape, one of the other crabs would reach up and pull his fellow crab back down. Another one goes up, another one comes down.
That is some of our trolls. “I have to work like a dog, I’m miserable, and scared , and, by god, I won’t rest until I drag the rest of them lazy well to do slackers down to my level. I can’t reach the rich, but I can sure rail against those union workers.”
OK, shithead…how good do they have it? You tell me.
@71. Government workers don’t know how good they have it. = Crabs in a pot mentality.
The gutters of socialism, are running chalk full of red ink.
re 66: “Tax rebates created by the law were paid to individual U.S. taxpayers during 2008.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.....ct_of_2008
Note the word ‘taxpayers’. And, in 2008, if I’m not mistaken, the Congress was controlled by Democrats.
@71: Spoken like someone who has never been a public employee, and doesn’t really know any of them.
@75: ZOMG! Socialism!
There is no socialism in America. If you’re going to say we’re being socialist, then you should have spent 2000-2008 ranting about corporate fascism.
re 65: “I don’t get it.”
That’s painfully obvious. You not only ‘don’t get it’, but it would be a waste of time to try and explain it to you.
@75
Need to play the grammar card.
The phrase you were looking for is chock-full. Typical conservative. You’ve heard something and it sounds right so no need for the intellectual curiosity to find out what it means. Either way, thanks for the inanity. Sounded deep when you typed it, right?
Your comma? Also unnecessary.
# 72: Another analogy is to view economic status as a ladder, with everyone trying to get to the top. The worst fighting goes on at the bottom, where those trying to get onto the first rung of the ladder scamble, with those on the bottom rung kicking at everyone below him to prevent from being pulled of the ladder himself.
The poorest whites try to keep the blacks off the ladder, and the non-union workers on the first rung try to pull off the union workers so they can go up one more notch themselves.
Those on the top of the ladder are quite happy with the situation at the bottom, and encourage it, because it deflects attention from their own position at the top.
Of course, when non-union workers complain about union workers, it reminds me a lot about the old Russian joke: One peasant complains that his neighbor has a milk cow, and he doesn’t. “What do you want me to do, I don’t have another cow to give to you!” exclaims the local official. “Well, you could kill the cow, and then we would both be even!” insists the cowless peasant.
So it is when a non-union worker complains about the benefits of a union job. It’s not that he expects to get the same benefits, he just doesn’t want other workers to get more than he does.
That’s why employers who are about to force a srike by a union first release lots of misleading press releases which exaggerate the pay and benefits of the union workers. They hope that anyone making less than that will not support the union, more out of jealousy than anything else.
And the union hacks carry signs with the governors picture in crosshairs..where’s the outrage….its ok when the union hacks pull the chicago trigger I presume
Where’s the for the good of the kids trickle down now…all that has trickeled down is massive debt
What the fuck are you talking about?
@ 83
That was your fascist messiah Ronald Reagan that campaigned on that. The man who raised taxes 11 times on the lowest income brackets to relieve the highest brackets from having to pay any taxes at all. The man who eliminated 10 income brackets and consolidated them to the lowest third of the income spectrum, shifting the majority of taxation onto the lowest income earners, while handing Government responsibilities for law enforcement, military, and the courts over to the private corporations that promoted and supported his candidacy for the highest office in the land.
Your fascist messiah. That smiling, cowboy-hat wearing, narcissistic and senile old man. Wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
It’s just frustrating when some people only talk about budget cuts to public workers and the poor and middle class and won’t talk about things like stopping stupid costly occupations, about getting rid of loop holes, reducing off shoring of jobs, and increasing of taxes on the upper incomes who can afford it.
I went to the UW. Loved every minute of it. Wouldn’t mind living there again. I have to take issue with saying the last decade has been tough on Madison. We went back last year and it seemed the entire campus and city center was undergoing a building boom. Because of Govt and the U they staved off most of the recession. I learned a local Whole Foods-type grocery store donated to the Walker campaign. Fools. Who do they think their customers are, Evangelicals? No, it’s the abundance of educated Capitol and UW workers keeping their doors open. What they need are large numbers of middle and upper-middle class customers, not additional tax breaks.
You back on that silly meme again Lib Unscientist?
First off Al Gorebasm told us that the snow and ice were disappearing. So Maybe Governor Christie believed him.
Or
Maybe this was a trip planned way in advance. Do you know who was left charge of NJ while Christie took his children to Disney World? An DUMMOCRAPT. He was given the full power of the Governor’s office while Christie was gone. So what happened Lib Unscientist? Are you saying the DUMMOCRAPT was inept in the snow emergency since he was vested with the full power of the governor’s mantle per the NJ constitution?
What a buttfoon Lib Unscientist is!
Stay on track Puddybud; this is about Wisconsin.
So tell us Roger Dumb Rabbit about those solvent pensions again? Oh wait a minute you’re Hit and Run Rabbit. You hit HA with something really useless with paragraphs of crapola and then run when the facts are delivered!
P R I C E L E S S!
Oh wait a minute you’re Hit and Run Rabbit. You hit HA with something really useless with paragraphs of crapola and then run when the facts are delivered!
P R I C E L E S S!
@89, It was Lib Unscientist@6 who introduced Christie. Apparently you can read a thread too well. It was a poor argument too! Par for the course.
Regarding Wisconsin, my son was just accepted there for graduate studies. I think I’ll talk him out of going to that place. Libs are crazy!
@90 Chortle! Or worse, he might come back a progressive!
@90 I am surprised you would let your son go to a state-supported school. Private institutions should be your only option. Pay full freight at Marquette or Northwestern ya freeloader.
@90 I will be paying full freight if he goes there. BIG TIME full freight.
@90
Why don’t you suggest BIOLA to your son for his graduate education?
@93 By definition you will not. I don’t question you will be shelling out big bucks but get pricing from Northwestern or even Loyola. You can assume the difference is in tax-payer dollars.
@95
PWN’d!
Reagan was a fascist? LMFAO.
holy shit, me thinks someone broke into Lee’s secret stash and burned a few up!
how much you wanna bet the gov of WI has gotten more than a few death threats….yet for some strange reason the media fails to mention them.
hmmm
why do the democratic progressives hate democracy?
the PEOPLE voted in the WI gov and state senate – and because the progressives arent getting their way, they decide to hold up the entire democratic process.
NICE! progressive democracy: ONLY for when they get their way.
can you say fascist?
@95,
It’s his field of study. He didn’t apply to Northwestern
@100
Are you deliberately missing the point, or is it unavoidable for you?
Let me use small words. Your son is going to a public university. What you pay will not cover the full costs of his education (though they will certainly hit you hard for being out of state) because of the state-funded subsidies at such a school. This is in comparison to a private school, which, depending on the endowment, would likely make you pay more.
So, you’re a socialist, slurping it up at the public trough, availing yourself of the largesse of the good people of Wisconsin through the instruments of their government.
Oops, I used some big words.
@100
You may want to ask yourself why your son is not going to a private university “due to his field of study.” The invisible hand of the market doesn’t seem to be representing itself.
@71 I would invite you to lick my butt hole, but you’re already so full of shit there isn’t room for any more.
re 99: “Reagan was a fascist? LMFAO.”
Can you even define fascist? Idiot.
@71 Of course, I can see this sort of complaint coming from a 16-year-old who makes minimum wage flipping burgers at McDonald’s …
Maxie @ 99
I don’t need to call Reagan a fascist. I will simply state that he caused great harm to this nation. His legacy is yet to be written, but will not be positive. We are where we are today because that smiling piece of shit sold a bag of dung to the American people, and he sold it very well.
@75 Reagan and the two Bushes were socialists? I know they were the all-time red-ink champs, but I had no idea they were closet commies … well, on the other hand, maybe I did …
@81 “That’s why employers who are about to force a srike by a union first release lots of misleading press releases which exaggerate the pay and benefits of the union workers.”
Yeah, like the BIAW’s myth about a state liquor store worker, whose $28,000-a-year salary they inflated to $108,000 …
@71 If you think government workers have it so good why don’t you apply for one of those great government jobs?
@83 A Republican complaining about deficit spending and public debt is like Gary Ridgeway complaining about the murder rate in his neighborhood.
@87 Not to worry, all those businessmen who have been donating money to Republican candidates and causes will go broke after they succeed in eliminating livable wages from this country.
@90 It doesn’t take a fucking genius to calculate that when the Treasury coupon rate is almost zero the amount of principal required to meet a pension fund’s obligations is almost infinite. Any ninth-grader can do that. And you only have to read about two sentences into this “report” before you run into some interesting extrapolations that wouldn’t pass muster in any accounting or academic research office. Where the fuck did you dredge up this “report” putznutz? From Free Republic?
@91 You wouldn’t know a fact if one goosed you.
@100 Another possible explanation of why the media doesn’t mention death threats against the governor of Wisconsin is because there weren’t any.
Seriously, if Walker was getting death threats from union supporters, don’t you think he would be trumpeting them far and wide? After all, rightwingers control 99% of the media in this country, so getting that information out there wouldn’t be a problem.
It’s not easy to prove a negative, but I just did.
Roger Rabbit @ 28
“So, Darryl, you were one of those carpetbaggers from Chicago who are continually invading Madison and turning it into Bangladesh?”
Well…if migrating to Madison as a 3rd grader with my Mother (who moved there to complete her Bachelor’s degree) constitutes carpetbaggery, then I guess I contributed to the Bangladeshification of Wisconsin.
On the other hand, in the early 1990s I lived in rural Bangladesh for a year, thereby contributing to the cheese-heading of Bangladesh.
Average MPS Teacher Compensation Tops $100k/year
[Milwaukee, Wisconsin] MacIver News Service – For the first time in history, the average annual compensation for a teacher in the Milwaukee Public School system will exceed $100,000.
That staggering figure was revealed last night at a meeting of the MPS School Board.
The average salary for an MPS teacher is $56,500. When fringe benefits are factored in, the annual compensation will be $100,005 in 2011.
And Benefits are not an 8issue…Really? They went up about 5k per teacher from 2010 to 2011.
Idiot @ 120
You are so full of shit that you belch feces. You really should start thinking about the real world, sometime.
@ 121
Id is just a liar. He’s a big believer in the Big Lie. Probably keeps a copy of Mein Kampf next to his bed.
Id, for christs sake. The public school teachers are being paid much less than comparable degree holders in the private sector. The fact that health insurance rates have gone up to five or six times what they were just 10 years ago seems completely lost on you. The fact that interest rates for pension plans is now nearly ZERO is willfully ignored. You are just a liar.
Why do you hate the idea of paying our educators enough to live on? The public schools budgets in Wisconsin have been slashed to the bone over the last 20 years. Teachers and other public sector employees such as home and health inspectors have taken pay cuts repeatedly. Teachers have been required to pay for critical classroom supplies out of their own pockets and have had their retirement funds slashed several times because the State and local governments have refused to even consider paying for them. Now the Governor manufactures a completely phony crisis, and you want them to gibber and grovel and lick the bottom of his shoes after he stomps them in the face.
Shit, why bother. These Fascists cannot fathom why any self-respecting christian capitalist would need an education at all. Theres no point in trying to counter lies with basic facts. They would rather everyone just grovel in the dirt for the scraps the billionaires leave in the mud for them to fight over.
I can see that most of my attackers have never had a private sector job, or at least haven’t been employed in the private sector for many years. I’ve had lots of them, and I’ve also had government jobs. Government pay and benefits far exceed what’s available to private sector workers, and job security is far better. When was the last time county government offices closed because of bankruptcy?
If you think the private sector is so wonderful, then why aren’t all of you seeking employment in the private sector? I’ll answer the question for you: it’s because private companies simply cannot afford the pay and benefits of government, and now, in Wisconsin and other places, some governments are finally realizing and taking actions to bring parity back into the situation. What’s happening in Wisconsin will soon be happening everywhere as we continue to go broke.
Here’s one guy’s opinion that makes sense:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/o.....p=obinsite
PI- it is simply not true that across the board that government pay is higher. Yes, I am a government worker, and I am in a position to hire others. It is a fact that when we advertise, the vast majority of applicants are from within the government. What does that tell you? That prospective employees prefer lower paying private sector jobs? I also attempt to recruit for managerial and technical positions. I have been told directly that a position would be a pay cut. And finally, I review consultant invoices, including salary and benefits, and they get paid more.
Just because some spread the lie of overpaid government workers, does not make it true.
@ 123
And it doesn’t occur to you that those Government jobs are the only ones who have kept up with inflation rates over the years? It doesn’t occur to you that there would be no point in taking a lower paying job working for psychotically greedy alcoholic if that individual has no loyalty to his workers at all?
There are a LOT of drunks who run businesses. I’ve worked for a few. They come in, hungover, pissed off at the world and will lash out at anyone who crosses their path at the wrong moment. They swing their moods from one extreme to the other in the blink of an eye, be your buddy one second and your worse enemy the next. They will flat out lie about what they are doing to maintain the company.
Such people have no qualms about just screwing over one employee on a whim while favoring a raging sycophant. Such people have absolutely no compunction about falsifying documentation or refusing to pay for wages earned.
Been there, done that, several times.
“It is a fact that when we advertise, the vast majority of applicants are from within the government. What does that tell you?”
It tells me that they hope to increase their already good pay packages and benefits by moving to another government position that presumably pays even more. Plus they already have a leg-up on private sector applicants because they’re currently inside the government system with their current jobs.
Look, here’s the bottom line: government pay and benefits are going to have to be brought in-line with reality. Defined benefit plans are dinosaurs. The only thing that will bring them back is for people to start dying at age 59, on average, so that there is a good chance that the system won’t have to pay any pension benefits out. Otto Von Bismarck promised every man who served in the German Army a pension at age 65, knowing full well that most men died before reaching age 60. Sure, some men live to 70 or longer and got the pension. They lived and were able to tell everyone how wonderful the system was. Those dead at age 59, though, didn’t say much against the pension system as the dead don’t complain.
Social Security was modeled after the same system. In 1935, the life expectancy wasn’t so high, so age 65 worked. Unless the US government raises the age for receipt of benefits, the system is actuarially unsound. I suggest:
for those born in the 1950s – normal retirement age 68 with reduced benefits at 64;
for those born in the 1960s – normal retirement at age 70 with reduced benefits available at 66;
for those born in the 1970s – normal retirement at age 72 with early retirement available at age 68;
for those born in the 1980s – normal retirement at age 76 with early retirement available at 74.
And we can continue in a pattern similar to the above for future generations. Without raising the age limits for benefits, the Social Security system is not actuarially viable.
Sorry to get off on the tangent about SS, but it illustrates the problem with DB pensions – they simply don’t work under the life expectancy assumptions in use today. What applies to SS applies to government pensions, too.
@125,
Yes, Ive worked with assholes both in government jobs and private sector jobs during my career. If you think there ought to be a law against assholes in the work place, that’s great, but it’s unenforceable. Try as we might, we can’t eliminate assholes from the world. They show up in government jobs as well as private sector jobs.
@126
you state a reality that the progressives either cant come to grips with, or just prefer to lie about.
Either way, the system will fail eventually.
The idea of raising taxes just doesnt cut it – because its never ever going to be enough for these people until the tax rate is 99% on everyone.
@ 123
The editorial at your link claims:
He doesn’t source the claim. Moreover, merely basing the comparison on levels of education still doesn’t lead to an apples-to-apples comparison. So, that claim is suspect from the start.
In 1996, the BLS did a study based on comparative job descriptions (quoted in this [PDF] report), and concluded:
So, we have your opinion piece by some guy who is a “policy analyst” at the Heritage Foundation making an unsourced statement of fact against a conclusion reached by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. I think the BLS wins this round.
ld@120,
If the goat leftist and deadgoat searched Wisconsin teacher salaries like I did they’d find sites like this one. Butt being the goat lovers they are all they look for is goatsees.
So comparing Seattle to Milwaukee Teacher salaries…
And comparing Seattle to Milwaukee cost of living…
The same comparison in cost of living for Madison.
Butt, the average HA liberal attacks without looking at any data.
Having the goat lawyer discussing real world issues is like ylb getting a day job. The second isn’t gonna happen so why would the first ever happen?
BTW deadgoat, I have no problem paying the teachers a good wage for 10 months of the year. I think they should purge the useless teachers from the ranks even if they have “tenure”. What’s that? IPR? In-plant retirement! Too bad you can’t purge useless lawyers like that!
@ 126
Unless the US government raises the age for receipt of benefits, the system is actuarially unsound.
That’s a lie. There are two variables in the general actuarial equation–life expectancy and minimum premium. Indeed, it’s possible to define a very simple equation that pegs the maximum FICA contribution to life expectancy in a way that keeps Social Security solvent in perpetuity.
The thing is, raising the retirement age adversely affects lower income people more than it adversely affects higher income people. Raising the contribution limit adversely affects higher income people more than it adversely affects lower income people.
And that’s why rich folks lie by telling us that the only way to fix social security is to raise the retirement age.
@ 131
Puddy’s last two links now generate server errors. So, I went to this site:
http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools.....iving.html
Plugged 49000 into the salary, selected Seattle and Milwaukee-Waukesha respectively, and it said that the comparable salary is “$41,116.”
Looks like the two salaries are pretty much in line with each other.
A $49000 wage in seattle would be equal to a $31000 wage in Milwaukee according to the site I looked at.
just goes to show you cant trust whats on the intwarwebs
http://www.bestplaces.net/col/.....2=55575125
Personal experience as a Fed DoD executive:
Cost of a fully burdened (all benefits) fed FTE (scientists and engineers): $140k
Cost of a contractor FTE for the same work: $250k
@ 134
A $49000 wage in seattle would be equal to a $31000 wage in Milwaukee according to the site I looked at.
Actually, the heading at the web site is:
I have no idea why that comparison is limited to South Milwaukee, but I do know that South Milwaukee has some of the lowest housing costs in all of Milwaukee County.
just goes to show you cant trust whats on the intwarwebs
Does that also hold for Puddy’s first two links showing relative salaries?
Proof this is not about balancing the budget, but rather breaking the unions:
“Democrats offered again Saturday to agree to the parts of Walker’s proposal that would double workers’ health insurance contributions and require them to contribute 5.8 percent of their salary to their pensions, so long as workers retained their rights to negotiate with the state as a union.”
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02.....k2%7C45232
@136
ya…the other choice was “west milwaukee”..and it even came out to less than South Milwaukee…although they were pretty close.
@137
There should not be unions for public employees in the first place.
Here’s how the scam works: public employee union gives election cash to democratic(pic a position) candidate. Same democratic candidate has the power to raise wages, etc for same public employee union.
See a conflict interest at all? Its all a scam.
@ 139
No, the scam is the fact that the primary and really only reason why the Billionaires and their pet Fascists in government want public sector unions eliminated is they want to be able to hire and fire people for political reasons. They want to be able to put people who would obey them without question, and get rid of people who would criticize them or resist their efforts to politicize the relevant agency. These unions were formed specifically to eliminate the massive cronyism and nepotism that went on before such unions were formed.
How would you like it if some clown came in as a new mayor or county executive and was able to just fire anyone who voted against him? How would you like it if such an individual were able to fire all the teachers and replace them with hard core religionists who opposed even the rudiments of scientific education? Or opposed womens right to vote or own property? Or some developer replacing all the honest building inspectors with his friends and employees?
That is the very definition of public sector corruption.
Oh, thats right, you’re one of those people who hate women and consider them property. You’re one of those people who think that any entity calling itself a “business” should never have any laws restricting its activities.
Never mind.
You know what, Sol, if that’s really the point, to break public employee unions, then admit it. Cut the BS about the budget crisis the Governor created with his tax cuts.
Don Joe.
Yes the site for some reason will not allow you to copy them so here is the original site and you can insert the city and state.
Thanks for the agreement Don Joe! Too bad the goat lawyer and the goat ex-sheetmetal worker deadgoat love to scream with no facts and no links!
@ 142
Too bad the goat lawyer and the goat ex-sheetmetal worker deadgoat love to scream with no facts and no links!
Id posted the comment, without links, claiming that average MPS teacher salary is $56,500. Puddy posted a link that shows that figure to be inflated by $7500. Only in that massively addled brain between Puddy’s ears could this have anything to do with Roger Rabbit or deathfrogg.
‘Course, what can we expect from someone who claims that Alan Greenspan is a liberal?
Wow Don Joe…
Where did goat leftist or deadgoat say ld told a lie about the $56,500? ld stated his source. Where are their links Don Joe? I found ld’s link. But I decided to look further into the issue comparing Seattle to Milwaukee.
Course this comes from a liberal who had issues with jon over his math formulas and jon kicked his ASS!
it’s NOT just about salaries. it’s about salaries, benefits and time-off. it’s about total compensation, something the unions want to avoid discussing.
@ 144
Where are their links Don Joe?
Fascinating logic from the “Greenspan is a liberal”-ist. Id is to be commended because he provided a link, even though, with a modicum of research, one could easily show that Id’s links weren’t telling the truth. At the same time, deathfrog and Roger Rabbit are to be vilified, because, even though they told the truth, they failed to provide links.
And, of course, in all of this Puddy makes no mention whatsoever of the fact that I did, indeed, rebut one of Id’s claims with a link of my own (see the comment @130). Partial Punditry indeed.
“Course this comes from a liberal who had issues with jon over his math formulas and jon kicked his ASS!”
Another amusing thought from Puddy. Apparently pointing out that there is such at thing as negative numbers constitutes getting one’s ass kicked in math.